If a bunch of wankers from across the globe can make an OS that supports so much stuff (two bunches, if you include Linux as well as BSD) certainly Apple can do something similar.
CoS has nothing to do with John Travolta. It's the Cult of Steve.
No, the above comment was not flamebait. But it was an exaggeration.
For about $1200, you can get a wicked fast x86 machine, nice big (huge?) hard drive, 17" monitor, enough RAM, and even a decent 3d-video card.
Can you even buy an iMac for that much? Assuming you can, you have to live with: slower proc (yes, G4 faster at equivalent proc speeds, but at the $1200 price I mentioned, you should be able to get a 900 mHz x86. The iMac has what, a 450 or so? The extra cycles on the x86 are making up for the inherent problems in the processor). You also get: no expandability, a dinky screen, smaller drive(s). etc.
The reason I dropped the Mac after about twelve years of allegiance was the impossibility of buying high speed hardware. I just don't make enough money.
So, moderators, look at the comment, and see hyperbole. Not a troll.
I don't think that the admins originally wanted a PeeCee on every desktop. That came from management types who were sold this bill of goods: "They are so easy to use, everyone can take care of their own computer, obviating the need to pay for professional administration."
Of course you have never paid for software. You are a 1337 d00d. Oh. Sorry. 0560d. My mistake. Regardless, you burned a few iso's.
Second, in reference to this comment, I installed RedHat 6.2 about a week after it came out. Haven't reinstalled it yet. Not on about six computers. While that doesn't necessarily compare to the needs of the Mexico City government, certainly if reinstallation were necessary (as you presume) I would have done so on at least one machine.
It's unlikely that the needs of the government are that high. If everything is going to paper, why does one need anything more than StarOffice? That's right, they don't. It has import filters that will take most of the crufty MS Word file format should they get that sort of document (and since M$ claims to be moving to XML for that sort of thing, does that matter anymore?)
In all likelihood (sp?), the government's needs are minimal. File sharing, setup, and maintenance is made trivial by either NFS or SMB (though more the former than the latter). Minimal installs are necessary for workstations. No services need to be run, and the machines could conceivably be no more than X-terminals. Sorry, but even though you think Terminal Services are grand, they can't hold a candle to the power of X-Terminals. Especially combined with NFS.
As far as licensing agreements go, Mexico City is part of a soverign nation (no, really, go look it up) that may or may not uphold license agreements written by or favorable towards the firm from Washington state. While not likely, it's not at all beyond their power to nationalize distribution of all M$ software.
Do you have a link to support your views about potential open source cost savings? While also on that post, do you have any examples of the software that the gov't of Mexico City may want to run that is provided only in a MS only shop?
About the limited savings you mention again... Do you honestly think that Mexico City doesn't have more and better economists, planners, and accountants than your 1ee7 d00d consulting company? Yes, both MS and Linux solutions require dedicated, capable admins. Duh. But in your rosy view of things (again, unsupported by any references) have you taken into account the cost of translation of the software? The speed of upgrades/fixes? The ability to DIY if your support contractor can't do these things or do them in a timely fashion? Have you considered the PR value of having a product in use created by a citizen of you own country (Miguel deIcaza) rather than some north of the border gringo?
Finally, did it ever occur to you that while saving tens (note the plural form. They are saving at least $20 million dollars, not $1-$9 million as you suggest) of millions of dollars may be insignificant to many corporations, countries, etc. it is not an insignificant sum for a city in a developing country?
But more to the point, none of these things ever work:
a) How the Republicans say
b) How the Democrats say
c) How the CBO says
d) How the IRS brass says
In actuality, they only work the way that the IRS agents and their managers say.
Since the actual tax plans apparently don't matter, let's make fun of the plan, whether or not we are accurate.
FWIW (and I'm sure you're not listening) the Clinton Healthcare plan (which was flawed) didn't work the way the Republicans (or the Democrats, for that matter) said. But I'm sure that didn't stop you from flaming it at the time.
(Of course, still being on mommy and/or daddy's plan means it doesn't matter to you, does it?)
No offense, but your analysis seems a bit flawed. You are increasing the speed of the SYSTEM by 5-12%, but you compare this to the price increase of COMPONENTS. Sure, these components make up a substantial portion of the price of the system, and your final tally will still probably show a 5-12% increase in system performance vs. a %50 (number out the ass) increase in system price. But the comparison isn't quite on the mark.
The first version I used (?) had cddb as default. Later versions seem to have switched.
The really neat thing (haven't done in a while) is to set free as the primary, cd as the secondary. So, if it's not at free, they get it from cd, courtesy of me:)
With Linux (and other os'es?) running on all sorts of crazy platforms, there's no reason to believe that there will be a complete disappearance of the GPPC. Perhaps a diminishing role. Perhaps.
Don't know about anyone else, but I don't want a mail reader separate from a browser, separate from a word processor, separate from... Get the point?
Punditry is frequently wrong. Why bother posting it? Doesn't Katz have another article coming on that kid in SandyEggo (and the two followups today)?
In the original post, it was a condition of continued employment. Depending on the state, that could very easily be considered coercion, at will or not.
I am not sure where all of the problems are coming from. I smoke, as do my brother, mother, and sister. I've never seen a failure on any computers that could be remotely attributed to smoking. Some examples:
My Mac Classic. Two years in a dorm (only one while I was smoking). Hell, I had a plant on top of it that got overwatered, and even that didn't kill it. Only problem was the notorious power supply that kicked off before I went to college.
My Mac Performa. Had it, used it, smoked near it for four years. Never had a problem with any drives, any peripherals (keyboard, mouse, printer, etc.)
My current (two) pc's: one is about four years old. Only original parts are... Hmm. None. Oldest part is the keyboard. It's about 3.5 years old. The moboard and hda are a little over two years old. Machine two is about 15 months old. On both machines: both floppy drives work. All three cd drives work. Have only had the tape drive for about two months, so any commentary would be even more irrelevant than the rest of this post.
Okay, big whoop. My brother and sister both have three year old machines that are chugging along fine. My brother's modem/sound card went south. Not sure why. Drives good, ditto mouse and keyboard. Sister had to replace the case and power supply when her apartment got flooded. Drives all working still.
The killer: my mother had a Pentium 60. Old machine. Used it from about 1994 until 1999. It's still up and running as an office workstation. One hard drive went bad. Could be smoke. But more likely, some cat hair got sucked in somewhere (there was much more cat hair than anything blocking up the cooling passages) or else the drive hit the 50,000 MTBF wall (or whatever it was on that drive.)
As a note: three of the smokers smoke avg. of 1 pack a day. One smokes 1.5-2 packs per day. All smoke 'light' or 'ultra-light' cigarettes. Sorry I don't have tar/nicotine levels available for perusal.
But perhaps the most important point: all users mentioned use ashtrays and the computers are on the floor!!! (Except in the case of my Mac Classic and Mac Performa 476).
So, while anecdotal, so are all of the other posts so far in this thread. It's probably not a good idea to smoke in front of the computer. But then again, accidentally dumping a cool beverage into one is probably worse.
BTW, I had a roommate who tried to get my computer stoned. Didn't work. (Hey, there's an idea: turn that old Mac Classic into a bong.)
As long as AOL is brainless to use and install, my mother, sister, and brother will remain customers. Easy to use email and browsing. Easy to access forums and 'sites'.
More than enough for most people and still a bargain at $21 a month, or whatever they pay.
Slashdot Mirror
You actually can buy an iMac for $900. You still don't get a LOT for your money, but that's actually not bad.
Still... Compare the $1200 machine. I think my points are still valid.
If a bunch of wankers from across the globe can make an OS that supports so much stuff (two bunches, if you include Linux as well as BSD) certainly Apple can do something similar.
CoS has nothing to do with John Travolta. It's the Cult of Steve.
No, the above comment was not flamebait. But it was an exaggeration.
For about $1200, you can get a wicked fast x86 machine, nice big (huge?) hard drive, 17" monitor, enough RAM, and even a decent 3d-video card.
Can you even buy an iMac for that much? Assuming you can, you have to live with: slower proc (yes, G4 faster at equivalent proc speeds, but at the $1200 price I mentioned, you should be able to get a 900 mHz x86. The iMac has what, a 450 or so? The extra cycles on the x86 are making up for the inherent problems in the processor). You also get: no expandability, a dinky screen, smaller drive(s). etc.
The reason I dropped the Mac after about twelve years of allegiance was the impossibility of buying high speed hardware. I just don't make enough money.
So, moderators, look at the comment, and see hyperbole. Not a troll.
No offense, but what's the point of a microwave if it takes longer than a stove?
Rice: bring water to boil, throw in rice, lower heat to simmer. Cover. Wait fifteen minutes.
Boy, I thought we had it tough with the pointy stick and leaf of grass (see above post:)
I don't think that the admins originally wanted a PeeCee on every desktop. That came from management types who were sold this bill of goods: "They are so easy to use, everyone can take care of their own computer, obviating the need to pay for professional administration."
X is pretty damned close.
Problem is, most schools got some money for a few machines (or a few donated) but never got the money for a decent admin, Linux or MicroSoft.
You might have been banging my sister (while I was banging your mom, son) but I guarantee she wasn't a hot chick.
You kids and your fancy CRT's and keyboards!
Why back in my day, you had to use a pointy stick to jab a hole in a leaf. We didn't even have punchcards.
How the fuck can the fourth post (and the first ON TOPIC post) possibly be redundant?
You talk tv?
Troll, troll, troll!
Nothing on tv tonight, so I may as well reply.
Of course you have never paid for software. You are a 1337 d00d. Oh. Sorry. 0560d. My mistake. Regardless, you burned a few iso's.
Second, in reference to this comment, I installed RedHat 6.2 about a week after it came out. Haven't reinstalled it yet. Not on about six computers. While that doesn't necessarily compare to the needs of the Mexico City government, certainly if reinstallation were necessary (as you presume) I would have done so on at least one machine.
It's unlikely that the needs of the government are that high. If everything is going to paper, why does one need anything more than StarOffice? That's right, they don't. It has import filters that will take most of the crufty MS Word file format should they get that sort of document (and since M$ claims to be moving to XML for that sort of thing, does that matter anymore?)
In all likelihood (sp?), the government's needs are minimal. File sharing, setup, and maintenance is made trivial by either NFS or SMB (though more the former than the latter). Minimal installs are necessary for workstations. No services need to be run, and the machines could conceivably be no more than X-terminals. Sorry, but even though you think Terminal Services are grand, they can't hold a candle to the power of X-Terminals. Especially combined with NFS.
As far as licensing agreements go, Mexico City is part of a soverign nation (no, really, go look it up) that may or may not uphold license agreements written by or favorable towards the firm from Washington state. While not likely, it's not at all beyond their power to nationalize distribution of all M$ software.
Do you have a link to support your views about potential open source cost savings? While also on that post, do you have any examples of the software that the gov't of Mexico City may want to run that is provided only in a MS only shop?
About the limited savings you mention again... Do you honestly think that Mexico City doesn't have more and better economists, planners, and accountants than your 1ee7 d00d consulting company? Yes, both MS and Linux solutions require dedicated, capable admins. Duh. But in your rosy view of things (again, unsupported by any references) have you taken into account the cost of translation of the software? The speed of upgrades/fixes? The ability to DIY if your support contractor can't do these things or do them in a timely fashion? Have you considered the PR value of having a product in use created by a citizen of you own country (Miguel deIcaza) rather than some north of the border gringo?
Finally, did it ever occur to you that while saving tens (note the plural form. They are saving at least $20 million dollars, not $1-$9 million as you suggest) of millions of dollars may be insignificant to many corporations, countries, etc. it is not an insignificant sum for a city in a developing country?
No. I thought not. Now go away troll.
AC. Typical.
But more to the point, none of these things ever work:
a) How the Republicans say
b) How the Democrats say
c) How the CBO says
d) How the IRS brass says
In actuality, they only work the way that the IRS agents and their managers say.
Since the actual tax plans apparently don't matter, let's make fun of the plan, whether or not we are accurate.
FWIW (and I'm sure you're not listening) the Clinton Healthcare plan (which was flawed) didn't work the way the Republicans (or the Democrats, for that matter) said. But I'm sure that didn't stop you from flaming it at the time.
(Of course, still being on mommy and/or daddy's plan means it doesn't matter to you, does it?)
And now we know how Bush will be financing the millionaire's tax cut. Thank you for playing.
English 101: $500/credit hour
Obfuscated perl webboard: $shit piles
Rubbing your IPO and lack of English in the noses of half a million geeks daily: priceless
(Update: Value of IPO: worthless)
Hey, Taco, hope you saved some money to pay for a spelling and grammar checker on your resume.
No offense, but your analysis seems a bit flawed. You are increasing the speed of the SYSTEM by 5-12%, but you compare this to the price increase of COMPONENTS. Sure, these components make up a substantial portion of the price of the system, and your final tally will still probably show a 5-12% increase in system performance vs. a %50 (number out the ass) increase in system price. But the comparison isn't quite on the mark.
Seems that mame.dk has suffered the wrath of efront. Seems that they are down.
Course, it's possible that someone said that, but wasn't modded up, for which I apologize.
The first version I used (?) had cddb as default. Later versions seem to have switched.
The really neat thing (haven't done in a while) is to set free as the primary, cd as the secondary. So, if it's not at free, they get it from cd, courtesy of me:)
With Linux (and other os'es?) running on all sorts of crazy platforms, there's no reason to believe that there will be a complete disappearance of the GPPC. Perhaps a diminishing role. Perhaps.
Don't know about anyone else, but I don't want a mail reader separate from a browser, separate from a word processor, separate from... Get the point?
Punditry is frequently wrong. Why bother posting it? Doesn't Katz have another article coming on that kid in SandyEggo (and the two followups today)?
Wattsamatter, need a few more hits on those banners, so you post some flamebait comments attached to an article?
In the original post, it was a condition of continued employment. Depending on the state, that could very easily be considered coercion, at will or not.
That sounds like an invalid contract. Any contract signed under coercion is valid on its face.
Proving coercion may be tough, however...
I am not sure where all of the problems are coming from. I smoke, as do my brother, mother, and sister. I've never seen a failure on any computers that could be remotely attributed to smoking. Some examples:
My Mac Classic. Two years in a dorm (only one while I was smoking). Hell, I had a plant on top of it that got overwatered, and even that didn't kill it. Only problem was the notorious power supply that kicked off before I went to college.
My Mac Performa. Had it, used it, smoked near it for four years. Never had a problem with any drives, any peripherals (keyboard, mouse, printer, etc.)
My current (two) pc's: one is about four years old. Only original parts are... Hmm. None. Oldest part is the keyboard. It's about 3.5 years old. The moboard and hda are a little over two years old. Machine two is about 15 months old. On both machines: both floppy drives work. All three cd drives work. Have only had the tape drive for about two months, so any commentary would be even more irrelevant than the rest of this post.
Okay, big whoop. My brother and sister both have three year old machines that are chugging along fine. My brother's modem/sound card went south. Not sure why. Drives good, ditto mouse and keyboard. Sister had to replace the case and power supply when her apartment got flooded. Drives all working still.
The killer: my mother had a Pentium 60. Old machine. Used it from about 1994 until 1999. It's still up and running as an office workstation. One hard drive went bad. Could be smoke. But more likely, some cat hair got sucked in somewhere (there was much more cat hair than anything blocking up the cooling passages) or else the drive hit the 50,000 MTBF wall (or whatever it was on that drive.)
As a note: three of the smokers smoke avg. of 1 pack a day. One smokes 1.5-2 packs per day. All smoke 'light' or 'ultra-light' cigarettes. Sorry I don't have tar/nicotine levels available for perusal.
But perhaps the most important point: all users mentioned use ashtrays and the computers are on the floor!!! (Except in the case of my Mac Classic and Mac Performa 476).
So, while anecdotal, so are all of the other posts so far in this thread. It's probably not a good idea to smoke in front of the computer. But then again, accidentally dumping a cool beverage into one is probably worse.
BTW, I had a roommate who tried to get my computer stoned. Didn't work. (Hey, there's an idea: turn that old Mac Classic into a bong.)
As long as AOL is brainless to use and install, my mother, sister, and brother will remain customers. Easy to use email and browsing. Easy to access forums and 'sites'.
More than enough for most people and still a bargain at $21 a month, or whatever they pay.