Slashdot Mirror
CDDB No Longer Allows Grip Users to Connect UPDATED
ezln23 writes: "I have been a regular user of Grip for CD Ripping and MP3 encoding for quite a few months now. Today when I attempted to rip a new CD I bought, I received this message. "Your CD player application is either not licensed to use the Gracenote(tm) CDDB(tm) service or its license has expired. If you are unsure what this means, please see our web site at http://www.cddb.com/lic/Grip. If you are a developer and feel you have received this message in error or wish to get your application licensed, please contact support for assistance." I guess the predictions in
this article were correct." We've also received submissions about kscd and other applications that query CDDB, so it looks like CDDB has cut off everyone who didn't pay up.Update: 03/10 02:28 PM by H : It looks like it was a short-lived thing - I can connect fine to it this morning - and I can assure you, I haven't paid.
Was this the original license? IIRC CDDB was originally a separate, free online database and only got all pushy after having been acquired by someone else.
Oh well, if you're not using FreeDB by now, consider this your golden opportunity. We'll see how CDDB likes it now that no one enters any new songs into it. The public made them what they are, and the public can tear them down just as quickly.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Gracenote now owns lyrics.ch. I made the connection that gracenote is somehow tied to Harry Fox. I guess I was wrong allthough my point still stands that Gracenote seems to be fucking everything good about music on the internet ;)
Guess I should have checked my facts better but I had just gotten home from a Bass Ale marathon and it was late and I was pissed. Never a good combination.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
From reading the notes, I doubt this will affect many people. I just ripped a few CDs tonight from SoundJam and it worked fine.
However there is an irony regarding the Napster/RIAA lawsuits if this was extrapolated out and the CDDB started restricting access to their database. In very measurable ways, the CDDB is helping the RIAA to filter Napster. Of course there is still the FreeDB (thankfully), but play along for fun.
The RIAA's injunction against Napster works by filtering file names, most of which come from the CDDB. Consistant file names make the injunction workable. Removing the CDDB would cause a large number of people to input their own names with all the associated inconsistancies, making filtering all the more difficult. I find this quite funny. It's only too bad the RIAA didn't target the CDDB and only later realize how much it was helping their jihad against their customers and themselves.
joe maller
And they're doing it with our CDDB entries, don't forget that part. They're not lily-pure by any means.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
What's the point of having two? Can someone explain? And why is CDDB trying to charge money? Why don't the two just merge for the common good of the Internet, and make a free service?
I can see wanting to make money. I don't conceptually have a problem with that. But (a) they didn't do any of the collection legwork. The people who entered the data did. Yes, in practical terms, it's not OUR data, but neither is it Gracenote's data.
... to use CDDB" bullshit got started - it was hosted as part of UNC's SunSITE project, if memory serves. The university's servers and network connection hosted it (all that stuff was there anyway) - it wasn't costing them money until they decided to MAKE IT cost them. We originally participated under the pretense that it was for users, by users.
And (b) I remember using CDDB before all this "you must do X and Y and
Thank goodness for FreeDB. (Yes, I'm going to keep mentioning it.)
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
This seems like too obvious an idea, maybe I should patent it ;-)
So make your own free *DB service. I'm sure everyone will appreciate it. I'm sure the submissions will be flowing in hot and heavy and in a few months you'll have more than Gracenut has.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I've heard a lot of people allude to the story of CDDB at one time being free, supported and built up by volunteers entering information, and then at some point turning evil and proprietary. Can someone recount the story in a bit more detail? For instance, how did a company gain control over what was once a volunteer effort? At what point did it become clear that they were going to make everything so painfully commercial (patents, licencing, and other ugliness...)?
--
From memory, to write an applciation that uses CDDB, you must:
1) Advertize for CDDB. You must put their logo on your application somewhere. There were some restrictions about size/placement/visability/etc.
2) Use CDDB exclusively. You cannot allow users to enter a different server name, such as freedb.
3) You must not store or redistribute the data you get from cddb. This is including, but not limited to submitting the data back to freedb. I believe caching is allowed, at least for local use only. Not sure about putting the data into ID3 tags and the like.
4) You must agree that all data submitted becomes the exclusive property of gracenote.
5) I think commercial players have to pay a license fee, but free ones don't.
Note: I read this a long time ago, and can't be bothered to look it up. The license may have changed, or I may be mistaken.
Check again here is the link the the Grip website. From what I can see there is no banner ad.
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
It's not the content they are selling, it's the bandwidth delivery mechanism, which someone has to pay for, else their ISP (apparently globix.net being at least one) would pull the plug for non-payment.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
People should take back their CDDB submissions! :)
Just write them a letter saying the information was submitted under false assumptions, and you are now declaring your submission null and void, and to request they remove your piece of effort from your database or you'll file a complaint against them for misusing your time.
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
Oh sure, paint yourself into a corner...
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
I found that the fix for CDDB.pm (the perl interface to CDDB) was to change the line that reads:
$self->{libname}, $self->{libver}
<br>to read:<br>
'CATraxx 4.0'
<br>Or any of the other music players listed on the supported players page.
Err, do the search and replace on cddb-tool, not abcde.
Since the CDDB database is searchable via their webpage why doesn't everybody just copy 'n' paste as many entries possible and submit them to FreeDB. Since all the entries were user-submitted is copyright an issue here?
There are thousands (millions?) of people reading this article and comment, think how many submissions could be added to FreeDB tonight alone.
"I am a man, and men are
animals who tell stories."
"The meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall go to the stars." Isaac Asimov
The proxy can get the data from cddb (that users entered) and submit it to freedb.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
However, the free (beer) license is still nasty, as it requires you to use cddb exclusively. So if you let you users have a choice between freedb and cddb, you can't be licensed. Also, you have to put their logo on your program.
As a side note, I wonder what this does to people with firewalls that strip/mangle/replace the User-Agent HTTP header? or is the filtering only on their cddb protocol, not http?
Vizzini: Watershed!
Inigo: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
So Gracenote appears to be exercising judgement in what it believes to be authorized/unauthorized MP3 players (didn't recognize Sonique, did recognize Realjukebox), presumably to make the burning of copy-protected CD's less convenient. I especially like the we-dont-really-care-if-your-player-really-is-licen sed-but-not-on-our-list wording: "That application does/does not appear to be a licensed CDDB-Enabled Application."
But what about people coding their own MP3 players or CD players, for release as a new product? I see Gracenote offers a "Non-Commerical developer's license" for such a situation, but it's limited to 100 end-users until Gracenote validates the license.
Yet what really stinks is how Gracenote is currently featuring an MP3 encoder (N2MP3) that apparently incorporates the LAME open-source MP3 codec, even tho LAME itself is not on the CDDB list. I.e. you can't use LAME itself with CDDB, but you're more than welcome to buy this commercially distributed rehash which does.
CDDB has less money than the MPAA, and if you can avoid being sued in the Southern District of New York, your chances might be better.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
There's a lot of non-trivial work involved with running a database like this, and it seems like it might not scale well. If FreeDB ever gets extremely wide adoption, won't the costs of running it become nearly insurmountable? CDDB can finance this because it charges fees. IMDB is (I believe) owned by Amazon, and because its data is mostly dispensed via a web site and it can slap ad banners on the top. None of these options would appear to be available for FreeDB.
I am not posting as a nay-sayer: I'm quite ignorant about a lot of the logistics & financial considerations. I'd appreciate it if somebody more intimately familiar with the workings of FreeDB -- or any similarly large, free online DB -- would comment on this.
Do domain names matter?
No, only the versions that you put under GPL remain so. If you create a new version, you don't have to put it under the GPL as well.
Only if they are either outside the US or create a completly new piece of software. Otherwise the draconian "derived work" part of US copyright law would appear to apply.
Of course there's an option to use Winamp with freedb! You seem just a bit too lazy to check the freedb website and look for the config-hints!
You could always:
connect to cddb server as fake client
pick random 32 bit integer
does it match ? yes: copy to local db
no: pick random existing entry from local db, write as new entry
What would Lemmy do?
"Hell, we can make it a community-based site. I don't suppose it would take more than a couple of weeks for some of the 'net's elites to initiate such a service."
Considering CDDB has sucked and been a turncoat for some time, you idea has reached fruition in the form of Freedb.org. All the benefits of CDDB, sans the corporate lust.
No sig is worth reading.
You can download a completely freedb aware version of Notify CD from the freedb website, which also supports submit to freedb. Since it's open source someone made the necessary modification and sent the modified version to us.
Just to be sure nobody gets confused, the Red Cross hypothetical situation used as an example isn't going to happen, it's only an example.
-- fencepost
fencepost
just a little off
>Nope, you're just SELFISH
Umm.. this *IS* a capitalism!
That means it's *OK* to be selfish!
In-fact it's often encouraged!
However, I don't really know what the situation is for the CDDB people. Are they not releasing their code as they are required to do? If not, they should be called to task. But even if they released all of their code, there is nothing that requires them to continue to make available the database, is there? If you write or use an open source web site that doesn't mean that you have to serve up useful content, or serve anything for that matter.
I have no idea what sort of liscence was explicitly stated when people submitted data to the database, so I can't comment on that aspect. However in my mind it is a bit sneaky, and their liscencing terms prohibitting liscencees from also supporting alternatives such as http://freedb.org/ are pretty nasty too.
I always go to freedb first (with a resedited copy of iTunes) and only use CDDB if that comes up blank. And I send in my corrections to freedb. Feels better that way.
CDDB has a service that it provides - a database of CDs, songs, and artists (btw- a database that they built of the labor of volunteers). Connecting to their servers to get the information is at their discretion. Grip doesn't have that discretion. Grip tries to establish a connection to CDDB servers that CDDB doesn't want. The information is available elsewhere, namely FreeDB. This isn't a result of a bad law, it's a result of CDDB being an ass and changing the rules of how an application can connect to it.
While I dislike CDDB and their restrictive agreements for developers and end-users alike, and while I think this action is kinda low, they are within their rights as a service provider. Would an ISP be justified to cut off a deadbeat account? This is a similar situation.
-sk
As of yesterday, Gracenote has posted a *free* (FREE, NO COST) license to freeware developers. As long as your application makes you no money directly or indirectly, then you won't have to pay anything to use the CDDB service.
I believe even Grip would be eligible for this, assuming it really is revenue-free.
FYI, the CDDB blockage is not targeted at Grip, but rather only allows licensed applications.
Ed
I see what you're saying, but how is it particularly unfair to require that an entity that collected data in the pretense that it would always be freely available release the data when they it no longer wished to offer the service for free, without condition? That is not the same thing as ordering Hotmail to never shut down or to charge.
I don't think anyone's advocating requiring the former CDDB, aka Gracenote, to provide free access to their servers in perpetuity. While it would be nice if they had done that, I would have been satisfied if they had simply release the database into the public domain, which is where it essentially came from. Whether what they did was legal or not, it sure as heck wasn't even in the same star system as moral.
Another proud carrier of the $rtbl flag
> I was still scared by all the 'rules' etc they forced on us.
We weren't too happy about it either, at first. But once you take the time to study the license agreement, most things they ask for are quite reasonable; after all, they operate the servers and provide you with free support. All you have to do is add a menu item or two. They also want you to integrate their "music browser" (and they'll then share the ad revenue with you), but you don't have to do that if you don't want to.
> If there were an easy free way to do a CDDB app, I'd implement it straight away.
Contact CDDB to get permission to download the SDK. When you've received the SDK, check out the Visual Basic demo project. We don't use Visual Basic, so I don't know how good the demo project is, but the C++ project was great; we used it to build our Delphi CDDB2 wrapper.
Basically, if you know how to work with COM interfaces using VB, you know how to use the CDDB2 SDK. Compare this to CDDB1, where you had to implement the (albeit simple) protocol yourself.
-- David Polberger Computer Science major, University of Lund, Sweden
The database patent is preposterous, as is this action by cddb owners.
Anyone interested in tweaking napster to handle this sort of thing?
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Just too bad karma paybacks comes back to you too.
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Actually, the owner of the work is not bound by any liscence he/she has released the code under, since he retains full access to the work unless he/she explicitly gives it up - and the GPL does not do this. Thus he/she can sell closed source versions of the work while still releasing it under GPL.
For the author, derrivative works need not be released under GPL because the author was not bound by GPL, only the people who accepted the work under GPL are bound by it.
Once out as GPL you cannot revoke it for that work, but the author need not release anything futhre under GPL.
Perhaps not, but the point everyone else is making is that you, through your own time and effort, provided the data to Gracenote freely. Gracenote then placed restrictions on how you can access the data that you gave them! No matter how you slice it, their policy is unethical.
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
...
Buy a license or don't. I don't care. But don't bitch about companies that are just following simple supply and demand.
Well, you've got it. Basic consumer nature: pay less. Basic business nature: get more. It's not an either-or thing, it's both, and the tension is what makes the free market work.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I don't think so - we couldn't meet their requirements. Each client is to be given a client ID code, and it has to be stored in such a way that it's difficult to get at the client ID (preencrypted?) from the binary (yes, binary). They require that you can NOT use any other CD info service other than Gracenote CDDB. They require that you display a splash screen when pulling info from the CDDB servers.
In short, no. Just use FreeDB - that's what XMMS's CD player plugin uses by default anyway, unless I'm mistaken. (Though someone does need to fix it so it provides the HTTP/1.1 headers to work in a transparent proxy setting...)
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
You sir, have no clue what you are talking about! This companies' database was built on the backs of people like myself who freely contributed to it, WITHOUT compensation. You are critical of us for wanting something for nothing, but turn a blind eye to the fact that the CDDB owners did get something for nothing! They didn't have to pay a soul to compile all the CD information, it was given to them, and now they expect us to pay them to get back the very same data that we contributed for free! I say screw them the same way they have screwed us! It's only fair.
Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!
Ok, first off, if the issue is why pay for something when you can get it for free, then you should do your patent searches at www.uspto.gov instead of Delphion.
Second, Patents 5987525 and 6154773 are for syncronizing an audio CD with a web site via a plugin, which doesn't apply here.
Third, Patent 6061680 is the one which covers database lookup. It was filed in July 1999. CDDB had been around a lot longer than that, and thus similar programs existed concurrent with the early days of CDDB. One such was a project called Disco that was programmed by an Apple employee and had clients on multiple platforms. This was in use at least by 1997. CDDB was small and independent in the beginning, and they didn't think to file a patent in time to really cover the database, at least if those 3 patents you site are the only ones they hold.
------
WWhhaatt ddooeess dduupplleexx mmeeaann??
This sig intentionally left justified.
I noticed that too... Maybe this is one case where RMSian zealotry does linux in general some good?
We're using Gracenote's CDDB2 service in one of our commercial applications and we don't pay Gracenote a dime. You only have to pay Gracenote if you charge for your software and have a very large number of users (more than 250,000 or something like that). There is a "free" license that states that if you don't make money off your product in any way (including but not limited to banner advertising), you don't have to pay, no matter how many users you have.
I suppose that the software the story mentions makes use of the original CDDB1 service; Gracenote has said that they will someday terminate this service and move all of its users to CDDB2. I'm not sure that this is what happened, though.
Also, I'm not certain that Gracenote has released the CDDB2 UNIX SDK yet. The Win32 SDK has been available for quite some time now and consists of a well-defined set of COM interfaces. The Win32 SDK is well-documented and supported by Gracenote. We've been very happy with the level of support we've received (again, for free).
Provided that the UNIX/Linux SDK has been released and there are no license issues, any free software (as in beer at least) could make use of CDDB2 and Gracenote's servers free of charge.
Note that I don't touch on whether it was right of them to use the community-entered data in the first place; most discussions on Slashdot seem to center on this issue.
-- David Polberger Computer Science major, University of Lund, Sweden
Isn't this what the "Tragedy of the Commons" is all about?
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Considering Grip uses FreeDB by default, it shouldn't affect too many people.
Well, (a) grip isn't a "licensed" CDDB client. I think Gracenote are a bunch of assholes, but that's the fact of the matter. And, (b) did you READ the requirements for their agreement? You have to display some "Powered by Gracenote CDDB" advert image when it's pulling from their CDDB server, they have specific limits on how you can/can't use the retrieved data, you can't allow the use of any other CD info retrieval service, etc. They're really a bunch of picky bastards.
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
So you said above, to which I replied...
------
WWhhaatt ddooeess dduupplleexx mmeeaann??
This sig intentionally left justified.
I freely submitted to their database many of my "offbeat" CD titles a few years ago thinking this was a cool idea. Last I checked, those submissions are still there. Now the assholes want to charge for information they sucked from the community?
Dipshits!
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Whoops, next comment mentioned this! Sorry, but great minds can't help but think alike...
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I beleive it may be kindo of like whats been happening to Napster users. I beleive its www.nettracker.com(Dont hold me to this) anyways they go in and see if anyone is using any illegal files. If they are they send a notice to Napster to shout down their account or they send a notice to the ISP provider and tell them to shut down there internet
Diplomacy is the art of letting people have your way
Neither do I, afterall, they're not selling MP3, so how can they lose money on something they don't sell?
I would have a big problem with this; as I just stated, noone of the RIAA is selling MP3s, and it is relying on other industries to subsidize its continued existance simply because they're incapable of adapting their business model to changes in technology. That's why I don't use services like MP3.com or MyPlay.com (because I know their use generates revenue for the RIAA), and why I feel justified of copying songs to CDR by the tax I have to pay on every last one of them.
RIAA needs to grow up and get with the program; it won't survive by forcing other companys to provide for it; nor by ignoring changes in the new economy.
I don't know how the RIAA could be so naive as to stick with old outdated business practices (I'm just sure IBM is still in business because they still only sell balances and typewriters, right?)
AC comments get piped to
Werd to free music. Werd to free information. Werd to the people.
But I guess that's why we have free alternatives like freeCDDB.
i noticed this about 3 weeks ago but thought it was grip's problem...
and the problem is?
Seems to me if the government wants to keep making more laws...they should start making more laws protecting fair use. i.e. you cannot discontinue service to users if their actions do not violate fair use. Under a law like this, CDDB could be held accountable for disallowing users of Grip and any other ripping/burning software that are legal in and of themselves.
God forbid, of course, that the US might actually pass a law protecting consumers.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
"End-user contributed" is a better term. I donated time, database entries, and code. Now I have to donate money to access the same CD's for which I typed the titles in years ago?? Grrr...
(Yes, I'm THAT old!)
I'll agree to contribute to a project like freeCDDB as long as they agree never to attempt to sell what I contribute. As I watch years-old projects turn into money-making ventures (CDDB, BIND, Gnapster), (not to mention the patent frenzy of recent) I begin to wonder if license agreements should be rewritten to include protection for contributors of code/data for the projects.
...which was celebrated for the first time on 26th of May in '99 (cddb=52699). The show is rerun annually.
Actuallly I would think bugs, problems, and errors are the fault of MS, Sun, Whomever.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If you go to their web page and search for:
:)
Linux/Unix, All applications that encode/play mp3
the search form kindly informs you:
"For Unix/Linux:
There are no players that meet that description."
In other words, use linux? switch to FreeDB please
I hope this will put a dent in there buisness, and they might consider rethinking there buisness plan? Specialy after all the contreversy about who owns what, and didnt -I- give them the information they are charging for now?
-- Chris Chabot
"I dont suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it!"
Flooding them with bogus requests is impossible, since they set an access-limit a long time ago to avoid just that ;-)
They are not stupid!
You can correct misspelled freedb entries. Take a look at the freedb FAQ, which is available from our website (www.freedb.org). The only thing you can't do is changing the genre of an entry.
If you want to offer a free service, there will always be volunteers who are willing to help. If Winamp switched to freedb, we would be happy :-)
;-)
Currently you can already find a description on how to tweak Winamp to use freedb on our website.
Freedb is and will stay a free service forever. It doesn't matter if the program accessing is commercial or not, since the possibility to use freedb is mainly helping the users and not the authors of the programs to make money. The more users use freedb and submit to freedb, the better for us. freedb is mainly a service from users for users. You're submitting to freedb and making the information available this way - we're just maintaining the servers
There are only four players listed:
So, we're down to exactly ONE 'approved' cd player according to Gracenote, and as others have mentioned, no 'approved' ripper/encoders.
So, what we're being told here is that 'you have a choice of players' without mentioning that 1-three of the four choices are useless in Free (Freedom) software. 2 - There's no 'approved' ripper/encoder. This is very typical of those who want to profit greatly from 'intellectual property' - especially that 'property' that they didn't even create: Offer 'choices' that really aren't.
Where the value of X-Mailer: is the true measure of a man...
I don't mind paying for services. Just not the "bait and switch" type...You don't give away a service for years and then expect payment. If you want to make cash -- charge up front. I think most people would agree. -- Again my disclaimer on various people whining about these "poor" websites and the bandwidth charges -- if you have enough customers to flood your bandwidth yet you cannot find a way to make money...then boo hoo on you -- sell mugs and t-shirts if you have to. (hell - I used to be sick of all the bumbs asking for quarters on my way to work -- now it's the dot coms doing the begging.....)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
that's not a troll, even though you don't agree with him, morons.
So you do it slowly over the course of a year or so... maybe they won't notice. :)
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
In the beginning, there was CDDB, and it was a volunteer effort. Other volunteers saw that it was good, and they brought their album information and entered it. CDDB grew. One day, the people running CDDB we approached by some company, whose name shall not be uttered here, who offered them money. They sold out. CDDB was based in Roanoke, IN, for a while; later, they added multiple CA offices. Little by little, they tightened their grip around the service; first, they added a license saying that they owned the data. Then, with the impending release of CDDB^2, they made the SDK proprietary and licensed it. Now, they have turned their faces away from the light, and must be punished. I personally like the idea of mass-correcting with bad data myself, but they deserve to pay, and pay DEARly for what they have done. I won't even use them anymore, given the option.
As mentioned before, they are now checking if the application is "licensed." Since XMMS is not licensed with them, it no longer can access their database.
XMMS defaults to FreeDB, but in my experience CDDB has had a lot more of my discs than FreeDB does. So it's a shame I can no longer use it.
Times are going to be interesting; people will soon likely rewrite their CD database apps to allow users to arbitrarily specify the application's ID string. Lynx, wget and Konqueror already allow this when it comes to web pages. Gracenote's response to that behavior ought to be interesting.
I would be inclined to agree and I will be honest that thier agreement could use some refinement. Now before I am flamed I will tell you I belive it helps to achieve the prespective of both sides of the argument rather than rant on yours. Besides playing devils advocate can be more entertaining that everyone preaching to the quire(sp).
In order to maintain CDDB it requires dedicated servers (even if the software is free the hardware is not). A highspeed connection ($$$) and people to maintain and run the systems, considering the amount of users this system must also have 24/7/365 availbility once again more ($$$).
This money must come from somewhere so it comes from licisencing. Now perhaps Gracenote should be a not for profit company but they are not.
But you have to look at this from the POV of the owners of Gracenote: You spend years building a system and garnering user support working in your free time to make it work. Now after almsot 5 years you have built something that companys and people want to use and some will even pay for (Im sure they make loads of money of of AOL for Winamp). Now if you spent the last 5 years busting your tail on something and can finally get paid would you not try.
Being a big bad corp may not be the way to go but what my purpose here is to establish an understanding of both sides so that this is not a one sided argument.
As a profit company Gracenote and CDDB have corprate trademarks and Logos they must protect. So (IANAL) but I imagine some of the licesne agreement is designed to protect thier mark. Using 2 services may confuse a user and complain to CDDB about lacking in other services thier application might use (Belive there are people that would). These type of things are precived as devaluing thier brand.
Im not saying Gracenote should not change thier agreement I see quite a few places where it could be a more of a win win agreement (if you wish to discuss these just reply). But in order to evalute these changes and argue them with gracenote or anyone you have to have a base understanding on where it comes from.
Thats all I can think of right now. No Flames be intelligent.
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
Thats right, that someone is us! and/or people like us. Those who don't want to pay!
And many of us spend a lot of time and effort, doing a lot of coding and maintaining etc. so that we can enjoy free OS's a free CDDB, and other free services (not only free as in money free, but free as in companies can't swoop it and steel our work).
Something like a CDDB that was built largly by user contributions, is something that should be kept in the public domain, thats the big problem here. Many of us work for companies who sell software, obviously everything can't be free, but it pisses me off that the few CDs that I took the time (albiet not much time) to enter into their database over the years exists now for their benefit, rather than the benefit of everyone. If I had known that, I sure as hell wouldn't have bothered to submit my CD info.
I don't think thats an idiotic thing.
-sk
Im inclined to agree, altho, I have to submit that when I submitted info... it wasnt with the caveat that they wouldnt license or sell my efforts. Further, I have a personal gripe with CDDB in that whenever I tried to enter in information regarding studio masters of Local Bands... I received a rather nasty message stating that It wasnt allowed... emails to CDDB inquiring as to why... afforded no true answer.... siiiggghhh
You idiots! All you /. people ever scream is FREE FREE FREE. You want the world and you don't want to pay for it. I want a free OS - I want free music - I want a free database. Well, FU all - someone has to write the OS - someone has to write and perform the music - someone has to setup and maintain the databases (as well as machines, Internet connectivity, etc.)
/. think that all services related to computers should be free? You don't expect to get a haircut for free do you? (Maybe you do...but then what kind of quality do you expect?)
All of these things take resources - time, and money particularly. If there are people out there willing to do these things out of the goodness of their heart - so be it. But you should be GRATEFUL that you can run an OS (Linux) that is free. You should *not* however EXPECT it. If you want it free - then YOU setup a DB - YOU write an OS - and YOU start writing and performing songs for free.
If people (corporations) have the resources and they feel they can break even, or even make money by charging people, they would. These are called *services*. They are a primary part of our society and our economy. There are goods and services. Why does everyone on
The notion seems to be that software and data, in any form, should be free. In reality, software and data crosses that fine line between goods and services. You are really paying for the service of someone to write the software / create the data (songs, etc). But since it only has to be written once, the cost is spread over all the people who buy it. Either way, in the days before computers, neither goods nor services were free. So why should the gray area in between all of a sudden be FREE?
Bottom line: CDDB runs a service. It is not a free service. Deal with it. Companies who create commercial ripping software are willing to pay for the license, so they don't have to rely on a free service such as FreeDB. If they pay for a service, they can expect a certain level of reliability (uptime, and accuracy should be expected). This is worth something to them - and they pay for it. They, in turn, pass the cost down to you when you buy their software. If DB reliability and accuracy aren't a concern to you, use FreeDB. Communities are great, but they can't rule like good old fashion supply and demand can. Russia proved that very well.
Buy a license or don't. I don't care. But don't bitch about companies that are just following simple supply and demand.
The database only. Serving out that database costs money.
Werd to free music. Werd to free information. Werd to the people.
Werd to the fact that running an internet resource costs money.
"And like that
I think a far more useful suggestion is that we, the community who helped build the CDDB database, stop using it and contribute any missing data to the FreeDB service.
Remember, CDDB was once in *exactly* the same state as FreeDB is now (not that that's a bad thing) and grew due to user contributions.
If people are just too lazy to check the FreeDB option in their clients and start contributing, I have little sympathy for them.
Si
ps. I am *not* condoning CDDB's behaviour, I think they suck. But I'm afraid it looks like we're just going to have to live with it.
Look, nobody is pissed that CDDB wanted to make a profit. People are pissed because CDDB deceived people in order to build their product.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
You gotta read the fucking licenses. The license is everything, that's how you know what you're donating your effort to. You think just because they give you shit without paying for it it's a "free effort"? I think you know that's not what "free" is all about...
Go read at http://www.gracenote.com/terms.html:
"Proprietary Rights Information
"The contents of this Site are protected by the copyright laws of the United States and around the world, including international treaties. No use of the CDDB Content, database or other content on this Site is allowed except as expressly stated herein. All rights not expressly granted are reserved. Copyright © 1996-1999 CDDB Inc"
That's not exactly the goddamn GPL.
I'm looking around for a place on their site where they tell me what rights I have to the information that I donated to them. I don't find anything. I find obscure licensing terms which they force their applications to adhere to, like (just one example):
"End users must register with CDDB2 the first time they access the service with your application."
Here's a rule of thumb: if something is free like in speech, you will learn this within 60 seconds of visiting their website for the first time. Free projects are proud of being free. If you find yourself clicking around page after page, hoping to find some magic words about distribution rights and can't find any, that's how you know it's proprietary.
Jamie McCarthy
Jamie McCarthy
jamie.mccarthy.vg
Linus can't up & relicense the kernel, b/c there are hundreds/thousands who contributed; each licensing their own snippets of code under the GPL. How did CDDB get relicensed without consent of all the contributers?
It is in any case ridiculous that cddb.com has decided to do this, and we should definitively support the freedb.org efforts by entering data for CDs that aren't already in the database -- now if only there was an official procedure for 'correcting' freedb entries :-)
Gee, nobody ever told me that Gracenote shut down lyrics.ch. I always thought it was Harry Fox. You know, the ones who had the lyrics.ch guys thrown in jail and forced them to sell under duress? I didn't realize Gracenote is Harry Fox in disguise. (sarcasm) Were you just trolling, or are you serious?
For the author, derrivative works need not be released under GPL because the author was not bound by GPL, only the people who accepted the work under GPL are bound by it.
Except that, as far as I understand US copyright law, the author of a "derived work" is NOT the copyright owner.
But only an entity representing the copyright owner can licence the code.
The only appearent exception would be where both programs are created by the same entity, which would appear to be impossible in the case of CDDB.
Posted by TrashManX:
I got pissed last week when I saw Notify CD didn't work in getting my CDs when it did work the week before. The original author stopped his development, but he had it able to be modified by anyone who wanted to mess with the source code. Some people have and they updated it to also hook into the FreeDB database. Here are sites to check for this version of Notify CD: http://www.mamane.lu/notifycd/ http://hassard.net/ I already use the newer version, so I followed the directions and switched to FreeDB and am starting to build my personal CD database from scratch. I even submitted data on one disc that wasn't listed. Screw Gracenote and CDDB...get then new version of Notify CD and use FreeDB!
Use this to find Unix/Linux apps that ARE okay with CDDB
I'd like to make a few points here. According to the CDDB lic Grip should have free access to the DB with out cost to anyone.
This is the Non-Commercial License and Database Access Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully. It permits non-commercial use of the Gracenote CDDB® SDK with certain types of computer software applications listed on Schedule B, referred to as a Licensed Application.
Now if you are a commerical user CDDB will charge you if you make money off your app basiclly CDDB wants a cut. Honestly I cant blame them I run some servers myself and I imagine keeping a large datbase running with all those users AIN'T cheap.
Now about CDDB2. The orignal database was the one that the users created. CDDB2 being the new version is supposed to have added support for not just song names and artists but lyrics and a bunch of extras that are explained here.
As for whats happening to GRIP its a bum deal. Being an open source project the creator is obvisouly making no money off his project. Which in reality may mean that CDDB broke thier contract and that they may be open to a court case (IANAL).
From the looks of it Grip was probaly removed becasue of the type of software it is however last time I checked it is still not wrong to rip a CD and make MP3s but who knows what tommorw will bring.
For a detialed version of the FREE agreement click here.
Don't kill me for spelling im lazy!
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
I don't belive this got posted. Yeah it's stupid that CDDB doesn't work with grip, but afaik, it does use freedb as a default. I just ripped a track a minute ago. I guess it is news for nerds, but not very important......
Gorkman
just a thought. is cddb still allowing users to submit data? if so wouldnt it be nice if everyone submitted false data. a database full of bad data doesnt really sell that well.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
Applications that use freedb.org
Better yet, pollute the CDDB with alternative names. CDDB identifies CDs based on the number of tracks and their playtimes. Most of the time this is unique to a CD, but every once in a while you'll be asked to select which CD is the one in question. This is because two CDs happen to have identical numbers of tracks with identical playtimes. So, how about we start making up alternative names ('Meta11ica' is an earlier example cited on SlashDot) and submitting them to CDDB. Then when someone is ripping a CD, they can easily select one of the alternative spellings for the filenaming. This also has the salutatory effect of hosing the CDDB, which appears to be richly deserved.
CDDBURL=http://freedb.freedb.org/~cddb/cddb.cgi
Oh, and if you simply have to use abcde with Gracenote's database, do this search and replace:
s/$NAME+$VERSION/xmcd+fuckyougracenote/
Abcde's default database will change to FreeDB in the next release.
If internet access is metered, monitored, and billed, despite the wonderful idea that it is, there will be some very serious outcries from those that don't believe their bandwidth usage warrants the fees. This is a "pay less" world... Why can't people like Bill Gates just share with all of us? :-)
What we really need is content-based matching. That's a bit harder, but there are a bunch of pretty obvious methods that should work reasonably well.
Of course, many of those methods, obvious or not, are probably being patented or have been patented by now because they are also very useful for detecting MP3 copyright infringement and for a variety of other commercial purposes.
I would have a big problem with this; as I just stated, noone of the RIAA is selling MP3s, and it is relying on other industries to subsidize its continued existance simply because they're incapable of adapting their business model to changes in technology.
I actually agree with you in principle, but in order to please the RIAA, something is necessary, or the mp3 itself could be rendered extinct.
You see, following the baseball team versus television model, I think that the RIAA should be paying the Internet Service Providers for exposing users like you and me to the music that they would otherwise never hear, and therefore would never buy.
The radio stations in my town suck. We have one rock station, one classic rock station, one hits station, two rap stations, several country (blah), one oldies, and a few others that I've lost track of. This means no modern rock or metal or punk or anything that I consider to be my taste in music. Even our rock station sucks. What does this mean? This means that my CD collection is growing because of the exposure to music online, especially through the use of Napster. I scan the music charts, heed the words of friends, pay attention to reviews, and I download the music that seems worthy. If it warrants it, I go out and by the album. In the last three weeks I have bought five new albums - all of which I had completely downloaded on Napster first to make sure they were worth the buy. Oh, and if something isn't worth it, meaning if I don't like it, I simply delete it. The RIAA is completely stupid, methinks.
those that don't pay the extra fee can have the servers blocked. I don't see why it should be any more than a couple bucks per month, but any ISP would make it more than necessary.
Definitely this. I would refuse to use an ISP that charged extra across the board due to Napster and the RIAA. I don't use Napster or view streaming videos or any of that shit, why should I pay for everyone on my ISP doing so? Rather, I should pay a lower fee because a.) I'm not using up so much bandwidth and b.) I'm not getting copies of the RIAA's materials, so I don't owe them a fscking dime.
I much prefer the pay-per-bandwidth model, which I believe will be getting more accurate in the future until finally it will be metered as commonly and ubiquitously as power service is now. I can only hope that in the future all the bandwidth isn't controlled by AOL or its subsidiaries, who seem to be gobbling up every small ISP in sight... (sigh)
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Getting around this is easy, though. Just make a program, call it cddb-back or something. Open up, say, a DCOP connection to/from it. Send the TOC data or whatever (from cddb-front). The cddb-back will maybe pop up an invisible window or something (heh) with the data and cache it. Now say cddb-front can read the cache and DCOP it over to kscd or grip (yeah, no DCOP, yes, yes). Now does this satisfy the criteria? Lets see--
1) Advertize for CDDB
The logo comes up. Maybe in the taskbar or something. Great
2) Use CDDB exclusively
Yep, sure. Freecddb-front can use something else...
3) You must not store or redistribute the data you get from cddb. This is including, but not limited to submitting the data back to freedb. I believe caching is allowed, at least for local use only. Not sure about putting the data into ID3 tags and the like.
Well, cddb-back caches the data, and some other DCOP application rips it off and submits it to freeDB. That bad app, ripping off of CDDB, bad, bad, bad... But it works!
That might actually work... wanna write it?
My other car is first.
I believe that slashdot already reported on a patent they were awarded. Although it was a much more general patent.
treke
Considering Grip uses FreeDB by default
FreeDB infringes U.S. Patents #5,987,525; #6,061,680; #6,154,773, and other patents issued or pending, and foreign counterparts. See also non-commercial license terms schedule C.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
We all know what's next. They'll be awarded a patent for the "delivery of CD title and track information over a networked service" and attempt to shut FreeDB down.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
They're not "Nazis". They've just chosen to go down a path we don't like. Fortunately, there is the alternative of freedb. And if there weren't, some noble soul would soon set one up.
We shouldn't vilify those who seek to make money off of services. They're free to do so. And we're free to go to a free site. And to use free software that goes to a free site. Amen.
Today when I get this licensing error, I check the list of "approved" CDDB 1 readers for Windows, and Notify CD Player is listed! So then I send e-mail to their listed contact.
I get a polite but firm "fuck you". When I go to reply to them that they still have it listed as a "supported" application, surprise!, it's been removed.
Since I can't seem to contact the orignial developer, I guess I'll switch to the other database, but this is really fucking annoying.
Somedays it's just not worth chewing through the restraints...
...if some people were to get together a break into cddb and destroy their database and make sure their site was down for a long time. They would see what else people on the Internet could do when they contribute to something.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I don't want to name the app that I am using for fear of having it blocked while I'm in the middle of recording my entire CD collection, but I know that at least one XWindows program that uses CDDB (and isn't on their list of 'approved' applications) can still access CDDB.
LRJ
this is like any big project that is used by alot of people. the kernel for example has hundreds of mirrors. in fact i'm looking at freedb right now to see if i can setup a mirror on our server at school.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
We pay for cable, we see baseball games on TV. Baseball teams pay for the coverage.
We pay for Internet, we hear music through the internet. Music industry bitches for the increase in sales, claiming that they are losing money as a result.
The way I see it, the RIAA has no room to bitch about anything, and if they do, it has nothing to do with the people, but the ISPs. Depending on the amount of bandwidth used on Napster's service on certain ISPs, I don't see any huge problem with the RIAA asking for money from certain ISPs for "losing" money. (Then again, I still don't see where the RIAA is "losing" money.) Still, this would only incite a rise in the price for the average person to get online, which would still be a nuissance.
But tell me, would a very slight increase in price be worth the ability to use Napster? I say services such as @home could invoke a small fee to allow connections to Napster, or those that don't pay the extra fee can have the servers blocked. I don't see why it should be any more than a couple bucks per month, but any ISP would make it more than necessary.
These are very loose ideas. Feel free to poke and probe them.
Freenet was designed for this kind of stuff...put it on Freenet, give Freenet it's first real app. At the same time we guarantee that the database can't be "cease & desisted" out of existance due to Freenet's uncensorable nature.
That's a good point and it is bad behavior on CDDB's part. I still object to calling them Nazi's, though.
I just ran into this today trying to use abcde on debian to rip a cd and getting album name and song titles of the cddb.com "unlicensed software" url. whatever. Just point your programs to use http://freedb.org/cddb/cddb.cgi instead.
If cddb wants to shun non-paying clients, go for it, we haven't paid for our clients.
Presumably they are getting money from microsoft so that future versions of windows will still use them or something equally stupid. (win98+ came with some cddb support in its player AFAIK).
Also, if anyone has a player that does work with cddb, they should update it to submit all entries to freedb.org if freedb doesn't already have them.
do they still allow additions and fixes to the DB? start fixin' it wrong... Enough mad people get even and no one will use such an ureliable service anymore.
Set your CDDB apps to access www.freedb.org instead. No licensing or patenting nazis there.
In kscd (my CD player of choice) simply click on the preferences button, set your CDDB server to "www.freedb.org http 80 /~cddb/cddb.cgi". Other CD players should have similar configuration procedures.
Problem solved.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
I know that there was a bill in congress to change the law on this a couple of years back, but at least as of a few years ago, it was completely legal to copy a database wholesale, as it did not constitute a creative work. CDDB is clearly not a creative work, so perhaps someone can just setup a sneaky bot to download their entire database and move it to FreeDB.
If CDDB were to put the database it's assembled from user contributions into a .bzip file like FreeCDDB does and let people download it (even temporarily, for long enough to set up a few mirrors) then it can do whatever it wants with its software and service, with no complaint from me. Then the .bzip file can be merged into FreeDB and those who want to keep using CDDB can do so.
There is a free alternative.
freedb
Use it. Add to it.
In fact, the USPTO site states
So there you have it.------
WWhhaatt ddooeess dduupplleexx mmeeaann??
This sig intentionally left justified.
According to http://www.cddb.com/dev/lic/sched_c.html, hashing a CD's TOC is patented, which means that Gracenote can send lawyers to take down FreeDB at any time. Go to delphion.com and look up U.S. Patents 5987525, 6061680, and 6154773.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why not come up with a p2p variation of cb/free db?? It might not be as realiable, but certainly less chance of people being sued and the service taken down... Over time as more and more people use it, it would get better..
--Garion911
Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
Grip has been using freecddb for as long as I've been using it, and that's where I've been sending all my CD info when I run across the rare one that they don't already have in the database.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
But be sure to copy their DB to FreeDB first... or else it would be a karma packback for the community too.
Sorry for being flamebait, but can someone explain something to me? Everyone's bitching about how "I entered a bunch of data and submitted it to them, and now they're charging people for it, those assholes." Can someone tell me the last time a user of CDDB actually paid to use the service??
Last time I checked, users never paid a dime to use CDDB. If you use a freeware app, you don't pay a dime. If you use a shareware or commercial app, you pay the developer for the program. In neither case do you actually pay CDDB for anything. Sure, if you pay for the program, CDDB takes some of the money from the developer. But what if CDDB didn't take money from the developer? You'd still have to pay for the freaking thing.
So, as far as I can tell, there's absolutely no difference whatsoever.
Okay, so FreeDB doesn't take any money, you say. Well, someone's footing the bill. FreeDB hosts take bandwidth that someone's donating on machines that someone had to buy with actual money. Nice of them, but it ain't free.
What I don't understand is why non-free applications should expect to use FreeDB without paying anything. What if AOL decided to have Winamp use FreeDB instead of CDDB? A big, rich, moneygrubbing company making even more money off of the donated resources of the FreeDB folks. Even further, what if the millions of Winamp users swamped the FreeDB servers and they had to fork out money from their own pockets to add more resources to handle the load?
What I'm describing here is financial reality. Nothing is truly free. Costs are paid for by someone, always, and what I'm hearing here is that most people don't give a crap so long as it's not them shelling out the dough.
BASTARDS!!!
bleh
Haven't we known this was coming for quite a while? Yeah, it pisses me off a little bit, but as many other people have mentioned, there is a free alternative. When I entered the names for all my albums the first time (only about 1 in 4 was on the list back then), I thought I was helping other people like me, and I was upset when CDDB changed. But at least 95% were already in the freedb list, so I didn't have to enter many again.
What *really* upsets me though, is MathWorld. My blood still boils everytime I think of that. Has anyone started over on it?
Aparently XMCD and a few other GPL clients have licenses to use the CDDB. Why not just use their license and call grip a derivitive of XMCD?
Gracenote are the same fuckers (sorry but I'm just pissed now ) who shut down lyrics.ch. I really am getting tired of people fucking up the internet. I think all the big corporations are pissed now that the bubble has burst and are looking for any way possible to get money back. I still say something like Hak Nam (Idoru) or the Walled City (All Tommorow's Party) is the only thing that's going to save those of us who have been using the internet longer than these punkass corporations. Maybe freenet is the answer.
Now everyone make sure you support FreeDB and tell these bastards that we don't need them.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Applicability of patents is decided in court ... not by lawyers alone.
Unless (as is often the case, especially in patent and copyright suits) the big corp has more money to pay for lawyers and bribe the judge than you do and can simply drag the trial until you're out of money.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm not saying I *like* the idea of having my bandwidth monitored, but I don't see any options that aren't considerably worse. The internet is a new thing, it's still in flux, but I see it settling down as another "service" that everyone will want to have in his house.
The American Dream has been updated: Now it's not only a house in the suburbs, SUV, 2.2 kids, a dog and a wife, it also includes broadband internet access.
So if bandwidth is going to become a commonplace service, I'd MUCH rather pay for what I'm using instead of being forced to subsidize the RIAA just because I "might" download their stuff.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
If we keep mirroring the database, then we'll never be fully under their thumb. Download a copy from one of the existing mirrors, and keep the movement alive.
though it pisses me off that most, if not all cddb entries were done by people on their own time. Blah - guess I'm switching tonight.
Hope cddb doesn't sue freedb over some bs patent thing...
oh.. for those who want to switch... change the CDDB server to
www.freedb.org http port 80
shouts.
Fuck cddb!
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
If people are just too lazy to check the FreeDB option in their clients and start contributing
Where's that option in the latest Winamp again? The current CDDB developers' license requires that you access no CD metadata source except Gracenote CDDB. This means that clients cannot connect to FreeDB.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
As of yesterday, Gracenote has posted a *free* (FREE, NO COST) license to freeware developers.
There's a difference between freeware and free software. The terms of the non-commercial license conflict with those of a certain popular free software license.
Check this out:
Note that this definition excludes computers with common peripherals such as (/me scans the back of my computer) trackballs, touchpads, drawing tablets, joysticks, floppy disk drives, Zip drives, tape drives, network cards, modems, video capture hardware, etc. (This license is useless, as floppy drives are included with most PCs, and use of a network card or modem is required to access the Gracenote CDDB® database.)The real GPL compatibility killer: "You agree not to modify or disable any Gracenote CDDB Client functions or to otherwise interfere with the operation of the Gracenote CDDB Client." Also, "The Client ID must be embedded in binary form in your Licensed Application, and must not be easily extractable by End-Users or other developers."
Or this:
Translation: "You will not modify, or allow to be modified, the hostname or IP number accessed by the software." Not compatible.Of course, there are a couple patents on using a TOC hash as a database key that keep you from just using FreeDB instead.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
So why does'nt someone just release a patch to make it pretend it is a "legit" CDDB endorsed client?
Failing that, it would be just tragic if a bunch of people got together and wrote a script to flood their servers with bogus requests and bogus submissions to the db!?
; )
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
It's possible for the developer of a free client to get a license to use the commercial server. You just have to agree to this itty bitty license. All 14 paragraphs and four schedules of it. If anybody can figure out how to write a Linux client that adheres to this monster of a license is truely a master of both code and law.
Sounds like we need a cddb proxy that copies all data from CDDB and mirrors it to many open databases. If enough people start using the proxy, CDDB will become irrelevant as all thier data has been mirrored, one cd at a time by thousands of users running the proxy.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
Would it be possible to have SLASHDOT readers "buy" a license for XMMS/CDDB?
Let's see. Assume 50,000 Slashdot readers willing to contribute $1 for unlimited XMMS/CDDB access ...
Is this possible to do? Has anything like it been done before?
--
--
I like to watch.
When I entered data into the CDDB database years ago, it was under the assumption that the license was the GPL. I don't recall anyone contacting me to ask me if the bits I entered could be licensed under any other license. I also have to wonder if they've merged the GPLed FreeCDDB database back into theirs at any time. Could a class action suit against them result in them having to remove all user submitted data?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Basically what you want is a system for hierarchical distribution of resource data, right? So use DNS! It's already set up to do caching, and bringing up secondary servers is as simple as doing zone transfers. Each CD hash could be it's own sub-domain, and individual tracks would be hosts within the sub-domain (same goes for title/author/etc.) Instead of everything having "A" records, liberally apply the use of "TXT" records.
Setting long TTLs on records would cache queries on your local name server, so if you listen to CDs a lot on your computer, they might live in your resolver's cache for a long time. Or if you're really hard core, like a school, just set up a secondary for data.freedb.org (or even individual sub-domains to mirror your personal CD collection) and stuff will be cached and updated automagically.
They'd still need to operate a HTTP server to get around l4m3 firewalls, but if the majority of CDDB users are academic (dunno anything about demographics) or home users, DNS would be very available.
Heck, you wouldn't even need to actually make changes to FreeDB to get this to work, one would just have to write a pump that would extract the relevant data and create the BIND data files.
Rev. Dr. Xenophon Fenderson, the Carbon(d)ated, KSC, DEATH, SubGenius, mhm21x16
I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
How bad is the license? Has anyone actually looked at it?
-- Thrakkerzog
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2001 OSDN.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer