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eFront From Inside
Gridle writes: "In short, eFront was a company which bought out successful websites and turned them into cash cows by maximizing profit through different ways of banner and other advertising. Not a bad idea, except that their methods aren't exactly pretty ones. A disgruntled employee obtained some crucial ICQ logs (mirror), which show the true spirit behind eFront. It includes cheating on banner companies, cheating on top100 sites, talking about raping a female webmaster because she doesn't agree on some points, tax evasion, delaying payment to webmasters, literally harrassing sites out of existance and all kinds of other nasty stuff. Somebody put together a summary about how it concerns the emulation scene. Also notice OverClocked's comic about it and Tim Eckel's previous ventures against the emulation community, and Penny Arcade. And it's all over the place already. FuckedCompany, SomethingAwful, Lum the Mad (and their forums), Get High Forums, mame.dk support pages and Retrogames' General and Current Affairs boards. Somebody even found that their CEO has earlier been convicted."
I've worked for eFront less than two weeks. I started working for them so I could make sure their hosted sites would start getting paid again, and I could stand up for the webmasters (since it didn't seem like anybody was standing up for them). It is in my interests to do so, as I'm a webmaster myself and I don't like getting screwed by the people who host me. Perhaps you should take some reading comprehension classes (since you're still in college). I never whined about "not being able to my [my] website fulltime", I whined about how the ad market is shit and how advertisers fail to understand basic online advertising concepts.
It appears that Lowtax, web master of SomethingAwful and someone who constantly rags on how websites can't run on ad money, is now an employee of eFront.
Seems odd for a person who was anti add networks, but I don't think his head was in the right place for having dual standards about anti ad networks but then whining about not being able to run his website full time.
How do you expect slashdot to stay afloat if VA doesnt cater to the horde of page viewing, banner clicking, l33t gaming crowd?
(Let me save you the trouble, moderator, I am an insightfully informative troll who's never on topic except when flaming some comedian.)
Libel
/. not a party to libel if the allegations prove untrue?
How is
You can't be liable for libel unless it can be proven that you knew what you were saying was false.
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
sam 04/03/20 9:40 am we should redirect it to goatsc.cx or whatever
Sam must read Slashdot.
Maybe in the UK, but not here in the US, in order to be gulty of libel, you need to know that what you are saying false. In order to be convicted, it needs to be proven that you knew it. If slashot dosn't already know wether or not these are valid, they arn't betting anything
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Regardless of what you think of the guy, he's now probably a few thousand richer with all the Slashdot hits to his site.
About the rape quote, grep rape from iBLAMEj00.txt. You'll find it easily. Perhaps it wasn't said with any intention to do it, but it still sticks at people's eyes and would be pretty much an open and shot case for this female webmaster's lawyers.
An open and shut case of what, exactly? From the logs:
Seems pretty obvious that they're just talking trash, not that anybody plans to actually go rape her.
Cheers,
Taken from exile.txt:
:)
eXiLe 24/11/20 6:00 am what's root pw again?
sam 24/11/20 6:01 am wereere
guess if they have the password changed since then
Guilty of libel for posting a link? I certainly hope not.
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
Sure. Also a lot of people in the web biz could learn from Nazi Concentration Camps who to run your site efficiently. Will make a great business case studies. Cheers.
You sure? I thought they were thriving because their women are powered by silicone. ;)
Cheers,
Re:They are not inadmissable (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10,@07:44PM EST (#209)
I was the first person to get the logs from the hacker (kebie) I have no idea what any of that mumbo jumbo means, especialy because I live in Canada. I originaly gave the logs out to webmasters, because I was so pissed off, #1 I hadnt been paid in 5months, and #2 my net was getting cut off.. Plus efront was trying to blackmail us into new contracts.. they wouldn't give backpay till we signed these new crazy contracts that gave us no rights at all.. Me being the webmaster who was owed next to no money ($421), took it upon myself to release the logs. If any of the other webmasters did they would liable to lose $30,000+ and their sites. The logs had only been through 1 person before me, from what I know.
Ask CheshireCat instead of me, sounds like he has it together a lot better than I do, but I say they need to take it to their solicitors, you too if you haven't already. It sounds and reads like the people involved with this company do have a valid case.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
If there is wrongdoing then taking this public before seeking legal counsel has fucked any case they might have. If they were not thinking of any sort of case then they should consider retaining an attorney. I would not want a six or seven figure a year business fighting me for its life, especially a disreputable one, without some sort of legal representation.
Releasing these logs may win them public favor, but it could cost them any recourse they might have had. And the business they tried to expose can keep on doing the things it has always done ...
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Case if the female webmaster wants her site back. Even if the rape "joke" comment is completely unrelated to the matter at hand, it will make a difference in the courtroom.
If EFront had a Slashdot like forum and was posting an artical about Andover they'd use the open source icon...
eFront catters to the game community as Andover catters to the Open source community
I don't actually exist.
I think any lawyers up against her would have a good chance of keeping that out of court, on the grounds that it's just inflammatory without having sufficient probative value. They'd probably let the "F her" part in just to show the intent, but the rape thing doesn't add anything.
Cheers,
Because there's nothing else to talk about... I answered all relevant questions and concerns. If somebody raises an issue, I'll deal with it, but I don't have the energy to sit around and refresh a topic all day, posting answers to questions nobody asked.
But we have no problems with this person posting other people' logs, which are incredibly easy to fake?
My mom is not a Karma whore!
The derogatory use of "lame", for instance, has long been divorced from its other meaning. But that isn't the case with "gay". Look at the page linked to in the post, actually. The person is called gay by insinuating that he has sex with men. That's hardly an innocent usage. I don't think it would all that hard to argue that that "degardes the gay community". And as long as usages like that remain widespread -- which they unquestionably are at the moment -- then ANY usage of "gay" will be associated with that.
Yes, but don't forget that "lame" was once used in the same derogatory fashion that "gay" is still used in today.
At one point, the lame were severely discriminated against due to their inability to perform manual labour with the same efficiency of the average worker. During the pre-industrial and early industrial era, this was a big deal.
So, too, was "gay" a big deal in recent memory, although you'll notice that its original derogatory use is in decline (it is still prevalent, but I doubt it will be in 15 years time).
As a society, our cohesiveness as a group depends on the exclusion, even hatred of those who are not in our group. There must always be "outsiders". This is human nature, and will not change since we must form groups in society in order to survive as a whole. The only way to end the hatred of a group is to include it into our own, and this takes time.
Nothing brings people together like a good enemy.
He also says that he had taken steps to preserve his site, and is looking to relocate the site to a French server once he overcomes a small "money shortage".
This fellow never trusted eFront 100% and covered his rear end by making backup plans in case the deal with them fell through.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
See the movie 'The Insider' . . . there are some cases where non-disclosure agreements and privacy run against the public good and a whistle-blower is not only justified, but REQUIRED. Also, check out ICQ's own documentation on the privacy of their system, essentially implying ICQ is a public forum and not guaranteeing any strong degree of security. Hopefully, that answers your questions.
So straight women just want to have sex with woman? Is that what she told you? And you believed it?
No wonder you're home Saturday evening posting on /.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
A few months ago, eFront contacted me about buying my website, in exchange for some crazy stock option plan. I'm not a lawyer, but even I could see how out of whack their contract was. I mean, give them ALL rights and ownership to the site in exchange for stock that has no value, and has no real prospect of ever having any value?
But, I suppose enough people are just interested in the prospect of making phat cash that they'll sign anything stuck in front of their face. These people getting screwed over by eFront are getting screwed over because they leapt into it with a lot of unfounded faith. Someone once said (I think it was George Carlin), "Businessmen go into meetings thinking the other guy is going to fuck them over, so they race to fuck the other guy over first."
This type of thing happens in boardrooms all across the country, every day. It really isn't surprising that eFront is conspiring to screw their webmasters over, what is surprising is that they were stupid enough to do it over ICQ.
NO CARRIER
to shoot ourselves in the foot.. evaluating
them on a one by one basis
like themeheaven has a 24x7 banner next to
ours.. well u know his payment will be delayed
Andy@home 18/01/20 2:59 pm Do you know how to print and ICQ log / History - I want to remind myself of some of the issues we discussed, so that I don't miss anything
sam 18/01/20 2:59 pm history->saveas->notepad savedfile.txt->print
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Tim? is that you??? Thought you could get away with it...you cheeky monkey!
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Interesting. I just visited the Arcade@home site to check it out, and one thing that stuck out for me was that he has links which appear to be part of his site going to either the Top50 or to paying affiliate sites.
In other words, if you click any of the links in the "Roms" sections, it sends you to the Emu Top 50 site. If you click on "Babes" on the left, it sends you to some celeb site, of course marking it as a clickthrough.
Best I can tell, there's no content on the site itself. It's just one of those lame site with nothing but links.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Lotax why did you think that if you started working thair you would make any sort of difference? the only reason they wanted you was to get you to STFU and it worked. congradulation you were the only person sending out danger signs and you stoped just because they offered you a marginal paying job and some worthless stocks
I think you have some double standards here... Obviously there's a problem with my tax dollars being used to spy on me as opposed to someone expending their own resources, but is that your only gripe?
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
"I don't mean to sound harsh, but I really can't see anything but greed as a motivation for the sites that have been hit by this; that and a sense of entitlement thwarted. I mean, I love PA, I really do, but I could host it on my (pretty modest) salary, in my spare time. What entitles someone to it as their job?" When did it become bad form for an artist to get paid for the work he does? I have seen this same vibe from people before and I don't understand it. Why is the web different. You would never suggest to a person who runs their own flower shop that they just do it as a hobby. That person loves flowers and they have worked hard to make a living out of it. But as soon as someones passion leads them to the internet the value of their work seems to depreciate. I wonder, if PA ran in his Sunday paper would he still suggest that I just do it in my spare time? What entitles baseball players to play fucking baseball as their job? They play a game! I just get this vibe a lot from people and it makes no sense to me. Any answeres would be much appreciated.
Damdest thing - di you know "Eckel" is very similiar to the Swedish word "äckel" which means "disgusting person"?
Maybe you should ask dangifiknow.com. It always gives an answer.
All your event are belong to us.
Eckel tried to insult PA by calling them 'gay'. These days, that's not much of an insult. In my neighborhood in San Francisco, the response would be "yes, and??". Most other places outside of the Bible Belt seem to feel the same.
So, are the warez doodz just under socialized? Do we need to take them to hot, hot, gay raves? How do we break through to them that the 80's are over?
Okay, enough /.ting. Time to play some gamez!!
Note to self. Cross eFront off of the "Save CHV.net list".
Mod this up!
Aren't these the people that host slashdot ;)
samrolken
Mod up message #209, not this message. Originally buried in the replies.
Re:They are not inadmissable (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10,@07:44PM EST (#209)
I was the first person to get the logs from the hacker (kebie) I have no idea what any of that mumbo jumbo means, especialy because I live in Canada. I originaly gave the logs out to webmasters, because I was so pissed off, #1 I hadnt been paid in 5months, and #2 my net was getting cut off.. Plus efront was trying to blackmail us into new contracts.. they wouldn't give backpay till we signed these new crazy contracts that gave us no rights at all.. Me being the webmaster who was owed next to no money ($421), took it upon myself to release the logs. If any of the other webmasters did they would liable to lose $30,000+ and their sites. The logs had only been through 1 person before me, from what I know.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
They also posted the interpretation of the link. I suspect you are probably correct though that intent could not be proven.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
The reason that a company can get away with this stuff, even for a little while, is because there's no community of webmasters/website owners. In the world or pornsites, if somebody does something shady, everybody knows abot it right away, and that person is usually blacklisted and forced out of business.
Cell: 714 227 5975
ICQ: 33698360
Email: sam@efront.com
r. ghaffari
(25/M/Baltimore, MD)
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Yeah, that was something I wanted to mention in my previous post -- he meant "gay" quite literally, as opposed to the more slangish version... And what's worse, this guy is in his early 30's with a wife and kids, but he comes off like some immature cocky rich 18 year old snot in the PA forums. That's so amazingly sad. *sigh*
BytesTemplar.com
I have a grip, I was just pointing out that someone who doesn't trust a log posted by actual people probably won't take an anonymous person's word that it's good.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Err, sorry buddy, I don't know what you think is worse than raping someone, but I sure don't hang out with people who talk like that.
What kind of friends do you have?
Apart from that though, the post may be a bit slanted, but thats what the discussion is here for. Who cares about whether you consider this post, news for nerds, stuff that matters. If it gets a discussion going that people are interested in and can contribute meaningfully to, then it has acheived it's purpose, and is a welcome addition to slashdot in my opinion
And remember, if you don't like, don't read it, and don't bother posting to it
"Me and my girl named bimbo . . . limbo . . . spam" - Captain Beefheart.
Maybe I should change my user information to reflect that I'm not in college...
>I've worked for eFront less than two weeks.
And what is your point? I made a simple little news update for people who cared to let them know that you are now an employee. And since you verify it then when why do you act like what I said was bad?
>Perhaps you should take some reading >comprehension classes (since you're still in >college).
This is why I don't read your site anymore, Lowtax. You insult your own fans. I once emailed you letting you know that I thought your quality was slippy, and I got a two word response: "Buh bye". And oh boy, has your quality slipped since then. This is all my opinion, obviously other people think you are funny.
>I whined about how the ad market is shit and how >advertisers fail to understand basic online >advertising concepts.
I can read between the lines, Lowtax. You whine about not getting paid, you whine about how ad networks don't work, but then you whine in February saying you're going to quit because you're not getting paid. How can you even write those articles about advertisers failing and then whine about quiting because you don't get paid?
No one deserves 13k a month to do webpages, and you're insane to even start whining when you didn't receive it. No shit people didn't get money for websites when people were asking for money than I do after finishing Engineering school. I guess everyone likes Free Beer.
Let me get this straight. You're posting "ICQ logs" from a site called retardmagnet.com? Good luck winning that pulitzer.
Journalistic integrity, meet slashdot. Slashdot, meet... hey, where'd it go?
Only on slashdot can a posting be rated "Score -1, Insightful".
ICQ History Log For:
12345678 SchmuckBoy
Started on Tue April 32 25:43:47 2004
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:43:47 nm Did you read on
leetkid 04/32/04 02:44:48 nm No, was it 'leet?
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:49:03 nm It took me a few days to write them all, but
leetkid 04/32/04 02:50:04 nm Sec, viewing them
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:54:28 nm Sure I did. The people at Slashdot are not journalists so they did not bother to verify the facts, and I get away with smearing lameass publically, harming him and his reputation, and
leetkid 04/32/04 02:56:19 nm You ARE the 'leetest one of all!
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:58:43 nm I wouldn't be without the help of
Exactly why should anyone trust logs posted to a web site? Especially when someone's reputation is involved? How is
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
I put up another mirror (with all the logs in one big zip) at http://members.nbci.com/mduell52/chatlog.zip.delet ethis (3.00MB). Of course, you have to delete the deletethis extension, because NBCi doesnt allow zips :(
Mark Duell
So to any other moderators out there, please don't follow the example of the guy who modded me down. If I was posting at 2, I could see modding it down as redundant, or even overrated, but there's enough noise at 2 that my ignorant posts aren't noticed and disdained that much...
-----
IANASRP- I am not a self-referential phrase
-----
-----
IANASRP- I am not a self-referential phrase
-----
email: proprietary becomes free, org to com
And what, exactly, is "the homosexual lifestyle" ?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
:P
:P
by the way.. you have open file sharing on your computer on
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
which means someone can delete your hd
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
at anytime..
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
you might want to change that
Kristy 02/03/20 1:27 pm
but im not supposed to tell you
Kristy 02/03/20 1:27 pm
so dont tell anyone
Everyone else so TOTALLY forgot to get your take on vocabulary!
OK, so when you say "that's so gay" you don't mean it in a negative way connoting unnaceptable, wrong, innapropriate; you just mean it in a nice, affirming, we're-all-in-this-together kinda way. Oh yeah, I can really see where you're coming from on this.
How could everyone else have so grossly misunderstood you?
So please, when I note that you're an ignorant clueless twit who simply thinks everyone else should forgive him for his offensive comments understand that I don't really mean those things and of course you should have no reason to be offended ('cause like, they shouldn't really bother anyone 'cause *I* don't see how they would) well, you'll understand.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Note that nowhere in the email do they deny the authenticity of the ICQ logs (they do say they "may have been edited, manipulated . . ." but not fabricated) or threaten action for libel.
Damn shame about mame.dk, glad I filled out my ROM collection recently.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
This is interesting. Is it maybe a regional thing? I think the last time I heard the word used in that way was in the early 1980s. Around here, you say "gay" when you mean "gay".
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
Not quite. "Lame" has, for a long time, meant something that's ineffectual or weak, and this meaning comes directly from its other meaning; that is, a lame animal (one that's injured and can't walk) is weak and ineffectual. "Retarded" has always meant slow and backward, and "mentally retarded" came from the original meaning; that is, a mentally retarded person develops slower than most people in some areas.
The derogatory meaning of both of these terms either comes from or is the source of the other meaning. That's not the case with "gay". Obviously, the derogatory usage of "gay" comes from the homosexual meaning of the word as opposed to the joie-de-vivre one, and unlike "lame" and "retarded", that meaning of "gay" is NOT one that should have any negative connotations at all. Using "gay" in that way treats homosexuality as in insult.
The derogatory use of "lame", for instance, has long been divorced from its other meaning. But that isn't the case with "gay". Look at the page linked to in the post, actually. The person is called gay by insinuating that he has sex with men. That's hardly an innocent usage. I don't think it would all that hard to argue that that "degardes the gay community". And as long as usages like that remain widespread -- which they unquestionably are at the moment -- then ANY usage of "gay" will be associated with that.
Put it this way: if "African-American" had two meanings, namely:
- the current one (race)
- a person who kidnaps, rapes, and murders children
then would you be claiming that to protest against the second usage is "paranoid"? If not, then that's an unconscious bias against gay people, because the two examples are essentially the same.
Yes, I have -- but less than 10 bucks. Assuming they keep their donation system up and running, I plan to donate about 25 dollars a year. I'd give it all at once (better for them) but I like the idea I can stop donating if I find the site starts sucking for some reason :-).
Not representing or approved by my company or anybody else.
How on earth can you do business (and the ICQ log makes the excellent point that, once you bring money into the equation, it's no longer a hobby) - do business with another company and not know that their CEO has been convicted of fraud? Where's the due dilligence? ``What other companies are you working with? Can I talk to someone at some of your other affiliate sites?''
How can someone host a site like mame.dk or somethingawful.com as anything but a hobby in their spare time? Pud seems to do just fine running FC that way (and appropriately makes fun of big companies that require 50 people to do the same thing). This isn't a troll - at least 50% of those reading this should know how easy it is to run a dynamic web site, and even to host it cheaply. But $24,000 a month!?
If you're going to accept ad revenue as the way you pay rent, it seems like you need to be up on the ad industry and know what the CPM trends are. It also seems like you'd want a pretty good contract with your ad provider, so they can't just drop you if it's not working out. Especially after April, 2000.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I really can't see anything but greed as a motivation for the sites that have been hit by this; that and a sense of entitlement thwarted. I mean, I love PA, I really do, but I could host it on my (pretty modest) salary, in my spare time. What entitles someone to it as their job?
-1, Flamebait I guess... though I really think these are important issues.
> took it upon myself to release the logs
Thanks for that. It would have been more fun/efficient if you released the logs slowly ("And tomorrow, as a guest star, lowtax, from SA fame...")
Anyway, it is always nice when shit hits the fan that way...
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
> The rest of the letter is just crap,
> especially: "In addition, we are requesting
> that you shut down the entire forum for Efront,
> due to the criminal investigation and the
> illegal actions that have been conducted with
> the reading and gathering of such materials."
>
> What is that last clause supposed to mean?
It means, "You're saying mean things and if
you don't stop we're gonna tell our mommy!"
Chris Mattern
I had someone do that to me too. I took your advice, tried to place a note near my top comment tagging it as "not a real excerpt". I credited your comment.
And someone modded down my comment ... This will prolly be modded down as flaimbait too, or offtopic, but didja ever notice how only one version of the truth is allowed? If they HAD modded my original comment up thinking it was an actual excerpt, the warning that it is NOT is apparently not what people wanted to hear ...
Oh well, the discussion was much fun. :)
Take it easy.
-Joe G.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
For a change, would you please read the links too? Who the hell would invest two months of constant typing to create 12 MB of forged logs with authentic information, passwords, people, phone numbers et cetera, and what for?
I have no reason to suspect the logs aren't real. Draw your own conclusions though.
Also, ICQ's license agreement pretty much states that since they can't guarantee privacy, it's essentially a public forum. I guess eFront just fucked themselves.
About the rape quote, grep rape from iBLAMEj00.txt. You'll find it easily. Perhaps it wasn't said with any intention to do it, but it still sticks at people's eyes and would be pretty much an open and shot case for this female webmaster's lawyers.
To forge ASCII-based files.
I've got some ICQ logs that prove that the moon-landing was fake and the world is flat.
Trolls throughout history:
Jonathan Swift
Have you read the demand letters being sent out from eFront's "legal department" ???
No one thinks a real lawyer wrote it.
Two things (and I read this on FC, sooo...):
1. The letter threatens criminal action. However, it is illegal to use the threat of criminal prosecution to coerce action in a civil dispute. So, if a real lawyer wrote it he would be disbarred.
2. And if a real lawyer didn't write it, then whoever did write it is practicing law without a license by sending a letter from the "legal department" without a signature of someone claiming to be a lawyer.
So, either efront gets a real lawyer to swear that he sent the letter thereby being disbarred, or whoever sent it (the ceo???) gets prosecuted for practicing law without a license when one of the recipients files a complaint in Orange county.
Because it's being used as an insult. fougasse's explaination was a bit...lame. You don't need another meaning. The meaing gay is used as in insult is to say someone is homosexual. It's the same way you can use 'black' as an insult. If you use the name of a group of people as an insult, that is, simply put, racist, or sexist, or whatever group it is. (sexual orientationist? ;) )
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
... since when do rockets require surgeons?
I knew that Medical School produced a lot of harried people, but I thought that it was just because there was so much work to do. I didn't think that it had anything to do with their risking their lives to save some poor rocket.
____________________
___
The ends are ape-chosen, only the means are man's. -- Aldous Huxley
I've put 'em on Freenet (... which is an anonymous un-censorable peer-to-peer repository. Download the client ...)
5 SKrW~cs~3s5q3Q2w
You can retreive the logs as one big zip (3 MB) with these keys :
freenet:KSK@eFront+ICQ+logs
freenet:CHK@dpRDQpUNDwjdqalIb-EH67Esbb8PAwE,HwkxI
According to TV, liking Judy Garland and looking down at everyone else's fashion sense. ;)
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
yes, the law says they are innocent until proven guilty, having a link posted on slashdot doens't make him guilty. Innocent until proven only applies in a court of law, it rarely applies in the court of public opinion.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Slashdot could've had a one-day jump on this! But nooo...
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
The eGroups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/efront-webmasters) discussion forums on eFront are no longer working. Was in the middle of reading the webmaster's complaints, and poof! all gone.
And, for Lowtax at least, somethingawful is his full time job.
We're not talking about sites hosted off of a home computer hooked to an ISDN here, we're talking semi-serious, non-shared bandwidth, a large time investment, and a medium amount of money.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
If you had read the article, you would have seen the obvious connotations of Tycho and Gabes' sexual preferences.
Humorless sig goes here.
Nice, very nice, I think I might just do that.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
*shudder*
But also mentioned is his pager email address, right here -> 7142275975@mobile.att.net
Someone else (loraksus post #90) posted it but I think everyone should get a chance to tell him how they feel.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
you've definitely mistaken me for someone else.
when using any internet service, do you get a ToS that mentions anything about your privacy one way or other? just because you CAN invade someone else's privacy doesn't make it right.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
The question was posed: What exactly is "the homosexual lifestyle"?
.50 Desert Eagle, or some other extremely dangerous high-powered weapon?
We at Nifty News Fifty heard the call.
In an exclusive poll of me and my mate, it was found that we listen to Tool, wear relatively baggy and none-too-coordinated clothing and like to play Counter-Strike. And I don't know about him, but I can say without a doubt: I like Chee-tos. So remember kids, when you think you've seen a gay man, but aren't sure, use this handy 3-point checklist!
1. Does he listen to music a lot?
2. Do his clothes choices lie along the lines of relaxed-fit and lack color matching?
3. Is he holding an Ingram MAC10 Uzi, or a
Oh yeah, and neither he nor I have used the words "Super", "Gorgeous", or "Marvelous" in any kind of juxtaposition in a phrase, or even at all, in the past four months, unless you count the word "Superman", which is only used when regarding the Man of Steel himself (all rights reserved). And I seriously doubt I ever used it that way either.
Hope this clears things up.
-- Kitsune Midori
"MY WORLD IS A CROTCH!!!"
-Sluggy Freelance, www.sluggy.com
"MY WORLD IS A CROTCH!!!" -Sluggy Freelance, www.sluggy.com
In context you can generally turn anything into an insult...
"That is a TOASTER" pointing to a computer running an operating system the speaker is discusted with.
To slandard a minnority group by using them as an insult is very immature...
On the inverse one could say Eckel's is not gay... not at all.. he is compleatly without happyness
I don't actually exist.
Remember - you heard it here first - your 100% accurate guide to spotting practicioners of "the homosexual lifestyle."
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Oh hell. Perhaps I spoke too soon. And maybe... oh God, there I go. Secret's out now, I guess. Wait, no, I'm not trying to keep it undercover... HAH! Disproved a theory in a matter of seconds. My life is now complete.
Nifty News Fifty! Cause if news breaks, we didn't do it.
"MY WORLD IS A CROTCH!!!" -Sluggy Freelance, www.sluggy.com
Not only do advertisers not understand online advertising, they don't seem to understand the most basic marketing. I haven't made a dime from my website, and I've been screwed by three different companies. Guess what? There is absolutely nothing I can do about it. Good luck Lowtax! Webmasters everywhere are counting on you.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
This behaviour should not be a surprise coming from a site called "ARCA death o' me"
Very few people in the gamming community are mentally over the age of three.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Have you priced bandwidth for a site like that? You can't exactly run it off of a cable modem...or a simple T1... Colocation is NOT cheap, especially if you host files for download.
If you ask me which is more likely: that a company with a bad reputation is actually a sleazeball operation, or someone sat down forged megabytes of ascii text icq logs, I'll go with the sleazeball. It's occams razor, plain and simple. Hell, it would be less effort to forge a .jpg of Ted Eckel shooting heroin in a crack house than write all this.
If you want clear and incontrovertible proof, you're going to have to develop some kind of clairsentient abilities, because all evidence can be forged at some level.
Alex 23/02/20 9:02 pm But everything is OK. I'm able to create many campaign a days, to get stats, to improve, or reduce numbers of ads viewed per day on a campaign... well I can do the most important.
I wonder what the hell that means! If it means what I think it means this is going to be damning evidence of number tampering...
Do IRC logs hold up in court?
"I've seen plays that were more exciting than this.
Honest to god... Plays!" Homer Simpson
Whether I agree or not that these may be valid (I suspect they probably are) these logs would be inadmissible in an American court because they were apparently not obtained as part of a legal search, they are unsubstantiated, and they could have been fabricated. As such using them as "proof" or even to support a pattern of a company's misconduct is not kosher.
Because of this I again reiterate that I feel it is irresponsible of /. to print these allegations. If someone has a gripe this should be taken before a court, not /.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Actualy... * It's not signed by a person (but was sent by email? what was the email address in the relevant headers?) A lawyer would sign his/her name. or perhaps the current efront legal dept. consists of Sam in his boxers and a google search for cease and desist letters.
I've read some of the excerpted logs, and that actualy isn't to far from the truth. One of the guys on ICQ, I think it was bryant or tim actualy did a search and found a sample C&D to send to the PA guys "fill in the relevent details, and put out lawers name on it."
These guys acted like children.
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Its clear from the logs that Efront are in some financial difficulty, it could be ironic that all this attention could give them the visitors to their sites to achieve their targets and make some money. However, according to those in the know they wont get nearly enough to save them, definetly not enough to clear the backpay. Those in the know are awaiting an investigation by the SEC for illegal trade of securities, though they seem more concerned with tying to keep the lid on it as this letter at Fucked Company shows.
I do not give a damn about karma. Actually what I was doing was creating an intentionally obvious fabrication to illustrate a point. You caught the date but you missed the flawed times ...
And even if the facts check, the motives of the persons who released the logs publically before or during an investigation become suspect, which can also lead to the logs' authenticity being questioned. Which can lead to them being dismissed as inadmissable.
Without these logs what kind of case do these ex-employees have? What kind of case can the government build?
These logs may give cause for various agencies to begin investigations, but I assert that their value as evidence is negligible.
I also assert that the presumption of guilt towards e-whatever-they-are flies in the face of the law of the land I live in, which is innocent until proven guilty.
I think it is beneath SlashDot to participate in the defamation of a company and individuals whose guilt is only alleged, not proven.
Mod all my posts down, please.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
First, check out: http://www.fuckedcompany.com/extras/efront_letter
As you can see, eFront's "legal department" is sending out cease and desist letters to anyone who is hosting or linking to the ICQ logs. Wonder if Slashdot will be hit by one?
If you have read the logs, you'll know that in a previous situation, eFront simply copied a cease and desist template off a web page to send. Look's like they've done it here as well.
I like this comment made by bored2 on Pud's website. He says:
regarding the letter:
* It's not signed by a person (but was sent by email? what was the email address in the relevant headers?) A lawyer would sign his/her name. or perhaps the current efront legal dept. consists of Sam in his boxers and a google search for cease and desist letters.
* It starts: "We are contacting you on behalf of eFront Media ("Company")." Umm, but I thought this letter was from eFront? Sam is obviously using a letter from a law firm writing on behalf of a client w/o having changed the relevant parts of the letter.
* "The unauthorized break-in and continued distribution and dissemination of this data violates the Federal wiretapping ***statues***."
With no citation to the relevant "statues".
* "The FBI office of Orange County is currently investigating"
There is a LA and San Diego division offices of the FBI; there is no office called the "Orange County Office." See: http://losangeles.fbi.gov/contact/fo/la/territory
The rest of the letter is just crap, especially: "In addition, we are requesting that you shut down the entire forum for Efront, due to the criminal investigation and the illegal actions that have been conducted with the reading and gathering of such materials."
What is that last clause supposed to mean?
How pathetic.
I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. In a civil action, people don't "file charges." Only a government prosecutor can "file charges"--or more accurately seek an indictment by grand jury or by information with a preliminary hearing in front of a magistrate. Your points might apply if you were talking about ethical violations relating to prejudicial pretrial pubilicity by the government (state prosecutors or Fed. Assistant U.S. Attorneys). Similarly, innocent until proven guilty is a criminal concept; civil plaintiffs have the burden of proof/pursuasion (with a "more likely than not" standard).
Re. defamation, remember that truth is a defense. Stated another way, you can only defame someone with false statements. Second, some matters of public interest are covered by a qualified, constitutional privilige established by the Spreme Court in New York Times v. Sullivan. With a public figure or matter of public controversy, a plaintiff must often prove "actual malice," meaning not "spite or ill will" but that the defendant had "knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for truth," but nevertheless published the statement(s). However, if the plaintiff is a private person and has not injected him/herself into a public controversy, then the plaintiff only needs to prove that the defendant was negligent in publishing the defamatory material.
With a private person & private controversy, usually negligence means falling below what a reasonable person or reasonable publisher would have done under the same circumstances.
There are other torts that might apply, however, like invasion of privacy.
One interesting question is whether obtaining the logs violated the Electronic Communications Protection Act (ECPA), 18 U.S.C. 2510 et seq.
Re. admissibility, pre-publication or not keeping something a secret has no bearing. All relevant evidence not otherwise inadmissible comes in. "Relevant" usually means "having any tendency to make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable". An easy standard. Some possible grounds for inadmissibility:
In all, electronic records are viewed by the majority of courts to be no better and no worse than any other kind of evidence.
---
In a hundred-mile march,
someone moderate the above post up please. it definitely answered my questions.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
I was wondering how the disgruntled employee managed to obtain these... did s/he sneak them off the guy's machine, or is it somehow possible to intercept IRC transmissions? (Maybe the answer's somewhere in one of these threads, but I'd rather not wade through them to find it.)
The coolest voice ever.
From 3.zip, from Jamess :
sam 22/11/20 12:09 pm oh guess what this chick called me today..
Jamess 22/11/20 12:10 pm really
Jamess 22/11/20 12:10 pm what did she say
sam 22/11/20 12:10 pm this chick from russia called..shes actually in kentucky..and wants to come out dec. 1
Jamess 22/11/20 12:10 pm ohh russian!
sam 22/11/20 12:11 pm she's 5'7 118lb
sam 22/11/20 12:11 pm she's 18.. and will do anythinng!!
Jamess 22/11/20 12:11 pm does she have a picture
sam 22/11/20 12:12 pm i am supposed to call her back tonight at 8:30.. wanna get on 3-way with me?
sam 22/11/20 12:12 pm she doesnt yet.. she said its not scanned or something.. lets get her to send it to us or something
Jamess 22/11/20 12:12 pm yeah!
sam 22/11/20 12:12 pm she sounds really hot.. eager.. excited.. fun..
sam 22/11/20 12:13 pm first time i talked to her (i didnt talk to her on yahoo.. just 2 msgs back and forth on email) and like in 5 mins i was talking all sex with her hehe
sam 22/11/20 12:13 pm she then said.. i gotta tell u something.. i was like what.. she said 'im a virgin'
---
In a hundred-mile march,
<img src="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=129623<nobr>7<wbr></wbr></nobr> &a=9613724&p=43330354&Sequence=0&r es=high">
really, I would love to see you spend a couple of days typing up everything in there. Especially when there are real cell phone numbers, icq numbers, and root passwords, and logs that can be verified by all the other parties involved
The only real diffrence between Andover and EFront seems to be Andover buys open source websites and EFront buys out gaming websites.
However.. that makes a world of diffrence...
Even on the overlap...
Open source gaming websites are still in Andovers roof..
I don't actually exist.
Here is a picture so you can match a face with the story.2 0.htm
http://207.153.207.173/visittoefront/pages/DCP_03
I've been following this since yesterday, here are some relevant links & funny facts:
t =h ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.hebus.com%2Findex.html&lp=fr_en
? ne wsID=9082447374
. co m/management.php+efront+management&hl=en
FULL logs:
http://www.retardmagnet.com/whoops/
http://www.sunpoint.net/~blametim/blame.xhtml
Misc. logs & non-log information:
http://members.tripod.com/smajain/
http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn?urltex
Fuckedcompany broke the story at:
http://www.fuckedcompany.com/comments/index.cfm
There are 18 pages of commentary @ Fuckedcompany, some commentary is rather humorous - phone numbers for employees and the answering machine messages that say "I no longer work here, call Sam Jain", highlights from some of the logs, and misc. images from the web.
If you go to http://www.efront.com, and then go to their "About Us" section, every link works.. except the Management link, most likely removed to prevent them from being spammed or contacted by news media. Of course, you can still get the information, because they didn't take down the German version of that page. Just click on the German flag.
I suppose their site *would* have to be up for this to work, though.
Thank goodness for GoogleCache!
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.efront
Also funny is that Sam Jain's cell phone (the number of which you can find in the logs) is "at the customer's request, no longer accepting incoming calls".
That's all, folks
stil
Check out the statement at http://www.hebus.com , efront has cut the webmaster's access to the site . use babble fish to translate :)
$395 for Platinum card?!?!
The "in short" version seems a little too short, for those of us who have never heard of eFront. And the log files are many, many times the length of War and Peace. So I apologize for not having read the entire "article" before commenting. But the charges seem a little stupid to me...buying web sites to make more money back is not a crime! Do the log files actually state doing something illegal, or is this just whimpering from eFront's competitors?
The "summary" link above is vaguely written, with nothing clearly stated to be illegal. It's more like it's written to *sound* illegal. "Screw the affiliates by lowering the CPM from $3 to $.75"...does that mean in actual breach of contract, or does it mean renegotiate the monthly pay rate? There's a big difference! Ad rates change all the time.
Bragging about "tricking" people into clicking ads (in the summary link), sorry, that sucks, but within certain bounds, that's part of web advertising today. You see tricky banners on CNN and most other major web sites too, like "click the monkey to win" and so on.
Bragging about "pop-ups and how he can do whatever he wants to his visitors," again, if this is just a gripe about unsolicited pop-up ads, they suck, but have become mainstream practice these days. I'd say most of the major media web sites I visit pop up ad consoles at different times.
"He frequently berates his visitors, at one point calling them 'sheep', He brags about his own 'leetness.'" Yadda yadda yadda. I'm sorry, if the whole issue is that this guy is a ruthless profit-seeker you wouldn't want to be friends with, it just seems like a lot of personal griping. Okay, maybe he's an asshole, but so what?
Again, I haven't read the 15 megabytes of log files, so I'm not saying for sure this is just a lot of name-calling, but if there are specific allegations of fraud, it would be interesting to have them summarized with more details and credibility than the "summary" link in the initial posting.
Ok, ok. I was referring to men, just as gay usually referrs to men.
This
"Who the hell would invest two months of constant typing to create 12 MB of forged logs...."
Perhaps someone with the same mentality of those that have been trying to kill EFnet the past several -years- ?
~morgan_wr
~j
I'm pretty disgusted that Slashdot is posting this story as well for a number of reasons,
1) Slashdot basically just linked this guys entire ICQ conversations with everyone for the past year. 90% of this stuff is irrelivant. So much for being pro-privacy, huh?
2) Slashdot seems to be getting involved in a petty fight between a couple of emulation sites, who cares? How is this "News for News" or "Stuff that matters"? It's petty bullshit.
3) The heavy slant in the story
Michael, how would you like it if the log from every chat converastion you've ever had was posted to the web, including private business conversations (names, phone numbers, fianance numbers are discussed) and off color jokes you've made (raping someone? i'm sure we've all said worse when we're under the pretense that we're talking privately among friends).
A story like this has no place on slashdot. I'm disgusted and lost what was left of my respect for this place.
I wouldn't. Shit like that _always_ comes back to haunt you. I can see saying something like 'i'd like to break her neck' - that's more the kind of thing people say casually and no one would take notice unless she turned up dead.
But rape? There is so much wrong with someone 'joking' about raping a woman in retaliation for some problem that I don't even know where to start.
On the whole, I agree with you that posting logs of 'private' conversations seems wrong and
I'm sorry, but if this guy was really stupid enough to spill all that kind of horseshit over ICQ, I have no sympathy for is 'privacy'. As for
---
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
What's with the games icon on this story?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Man that's funny :)
Tim's flame on Penny Arcade's forums (long long thread)
r. ghaffari
(25/M/Baltimore, MD)
Agreed, however it is _very_ poor judgement.
I know the original post was about an 'open an shot case for lawyers'... I don't see any criminal case here, either.
But... what was the business relationship here? Was this female webmaster here in any way considered an employee? eFront is in the business of buying these websites, right? Man you have got to be _ultra_ careful about sexual harassment these days.
I used to think that SH was about propositioning someone in order for them to keep their job or get a promo. It isn't anywhere near that narrow.
I had to go to a 'sexual harassment orientation' session at work. Man, there are a lot of things that can land you in court. From what I heard in the class, saying 'rape her and spit on her' in the context of someone you work with could get you in trouble pretty easily.
Plus, it is a fascinating insight into this cretin's mindset. Saying 'F her' or something like that is one thing, saying 'rape', even if he obviously never intended to actually do anything like that is just fucked.
---
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Wow, seriously dangerous waters you guys at /. are venturing into.
/. get embroiled in the very things it purports to be rallying the community against ...
It could be argued, pretty easily, that this article is a competitive swipe against EFront, who seem to have a relatively similar business strategy to another "Buy-And-Milk" company, your very own Andover Networks.
I hope this doesn't cause more fuss than it should. Be stupid to see
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Oops! You might want to check that link before telling us coloc only costs $150 a month. You probably need to check the Verio DataCenter page where they offer REAL colocation - not just a "virtual" server.
Do you actually ever get to any ROMs? What exactly is the deal with all these link exchange places anyway? Seems like everything on these sites is structure at maximum ads per attempted ROM download...
Sleazy W3 ad barons, runaway IP law, blink tags...this place just hasn't been the same since the Eternal September.
-Carter
ping arcade.com.tw
ping www.arcade.com.tw
ping www.arcadeathome.com
ping arcadeathome.efront.com
Spot the difference.
Yes, folks, Tim is hosting the roms at his own site, not in Taiwan.
I just wrote a node on everything2.com so check it out and contribute to the lashing.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
I don't know anything about this guy, and don't much give a shit. The fact that many of the people involved in game emulation (or vid gaming in general) are pathetic 15-year olds trapped in flabby 30something bodies is not a revelation (does gut check...lookin' good!).
/. link to point to something other than a couple of pipsqueaks in a flame war that lacks even good namecalling.
What really dismayed me was the bit at the end of that linked-to diatribe where some guy named "Gene" proves himself the owner of an equal number of mindzits by taking it out on this Timmah guy's wife, fer chrissakes. WTF did she do? If this guy is as bad as he sounds, doesn't she have enough problems being married to him? There might be validity in the previous paragraphs, but it's completely thrown away by that last crack.
Honestly, the idea that you can insult someone by saying "oh yeah, your wife's ugly" is even lower than using "gay" as a pejorative. She's not a collectible, you dumb fuck, and she appears to have nothing to do with this pathetic tempest in a teapot. It'd be nice if we could go back to expecting a
Well, I will be the first to admit that I haven't read some of the articles, so I have no idea how the logs were acquired, but based on what I know so far, the answer would be no.
Why, you ask? It's quite simple: I take the attitude that anything transmitted via ICQ and logged is no longer private. AFAIK, ICQ themselves take that attitude. It's like when people complain about me posting IRC logs: stuff said is, IMHO, public domain, especially if on a channel itself.
If the person whose logs were posted wants to complain, maybe he should consider that this could have been avoided had he used something that DIDN'T log his words. :p Or even better, not been such an ass in the first place...
This is offopic, but raises something interestig for me.
But before I'll say it, I'll qualify my position on this case. I do not put up a defense for the people behind the icq logs. Quite the opposite: the thing that stops me being a fan of Nixon is the fact he was a wife beater.
I was taken to court a couple of years ago by a former employee who wanted to get aninjunctoin to stop me for working. Thye ripped our email and icq logs, and just spread them before the court. Anything about anything was put in there - including a friend and I talking about burning a video to CDs so we could take them home, a hell of a lot of stuff on no relevance to the court. Three was also a hell of a lot of private material in the logs, as you would expect. ortunately the guy who ripped them discovered really personal stuff about him in them, which means he probably did worse out of it than anyone, but as something of a libertarian, I'm scared as hell by the way you can be laid out by people distributing your email and icq conversations.
Believe with me, my saplings.
But he does deserve it.
His cell does "no longer accept incoming calls"
But I believe that you can text message him at 7142275975@mobile.att.net
Enjoy.
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
They include Perl, {my,m,postgre}SQL, PHP4, 400 MB disk, free bandwitdth to multiple T3's, etc...
...I'm surprised; I wouldn't have thought that Penny Arcade would be this affected by a small mention in a story.
But, seems people don't want to see it that way. It's more fun, I guess, to run around crying about how people are "degrading the gay community" or some nonsense. It's more dramatic that way.
On a similar note, a month or two ago I got into a similar argument over the word "retarded" when I was describing something in a sci-fi forum. These self-righteous idiots decided that I was bashing retarded kids, despite the word being even more general than "gay". Lots of things can be "retarded" and not refer to a human with disability. But they wouldn't hear it, despite my impassioned pleas to the opposite.
We're so paranoid of offending, or being offended that we're fucking up our own language and lives. It stops being fun when you have to eject a good chunk of your slang and even regular words to appease the insecure.
BytesTemplar.com
Anyone else notice the ever so small invasion of privacy issue?
Ok I have noticed some strangeness at EFront... The whole banner ads deal has hit Keen[Spot/Space] Yahoo and so it seems EFront (Thank you VA Linux for buying out Andover..)
EFront has overloaded the websites with ads lately in what appears to be an attempt to make money.
They recently dumpped the non-proffitable "Hang and Catch Fire" on-line comic and didn't tell the artists. (one writer two cartoonists)
So clearly something is up at EFront.
How are we to know this isn't spoken by pure frantic. Yeah people say some pritty ranchy things when they are frightend and EFront has reason to be fearful.
Yeah employees are gona get pissed on occasion. Hotheads exist. I'm talking about myself in part here I know what it is to lose my head with reguards to an employer. However the worst I have ever done was quit.
On the other hand......
Hay wouldn't it be funny if Andover bought out EFront....
I think we might want to not use the ICQ logs becouse of the privacy issue. Keep this to the more public stuff such as the public insults and visable efforts to bring in proffits.
This is a down turn for websites funded by banner ads.
I suspect there are three issues behind this...
1. People are buying less on-line due to the economy. So some are not inclined to throw money into Internet advertsing conserned that clicks no-longer turn into cash.
2. The TV industry has been pushing Internet companys to advertise on TV. Internet companys traditionally advertise on-line where the target market is.
3. Internet is still newish and many don't know what to make of them where as people know what to make of traditional advertising.
During an economic downturn banner ads are seen as risky.
On my end... banner ad prices are allready cheap.. Maybe some discounts exist... Time to go shopping.....
Andover seems to be taking this in stride and premoting internally. Good market move.
Andover builds up and EFront falls appart...
Andover will be in a better position for it...
I don't actually exist.
I read the links.
The size of the logs to me does not preclude fabrication by anyone capable of find/cut/paste in your average word processor.
The logs would indeed seem to lean towards being authentic, BUT they are not substantiated as such, and I suspect for /. to post unsubstantiated information as fact is irresponsible.
How were the logs acquired? Where did they come from? Are the sources reliable? Can anyone who criticized my comments state unquivocally that such fabrication is not possible for anyone with minimal word processing skills?
Naaah I think /. can be better than this. I expect them to be ...
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
The logs were confirmed by Lowtax to be true.
br.
"We're tired of all those Microsoft developers shoving their Win-Ho's in our face."
I mean, god, how Fortyseven can you be. Are you Fortyseven?
Man, all these FortySevens piss me off.
I intend to work this into the english language. Anyone care to join? hehehe
- I am made of meat.
That's true, but I specifically went for the virtual server. You really shouldn't need the whole machine to yourself for most of these sites. I have worked on dynamic sites sitting on a coloc'd virtual server, and it works great provided you're using a sane setup.
You are free to spy on me and I am free to try to prevent it. The difference is the difference between private citizens spying on each other, and the government spying on the citizens. The former is acceptable, the latter a big no-no.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
I think they would have used the "Billyborg" one but it's been done to death.
You're using her as bait, Master!
Sharing multiple T3's is going to be just fine. The mentality that every site needs its own T3, its own high-end server, etc., is just not accurate.
This is flamebait?
O ... K ... That's why I get such interesting things to metamoderate. Lemme guess, this reply is "offtopic". No wonder people post anonymously. :)
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Seems that mame.dk has suffered the wrath of efront. Seems that they are down.
Course, it's possible that someone said that, but wasn't modded up, for which I apologize.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I think I saw a large , bronze wire-spool outside the Federal building in Indy. Perhaps that's the statue they were violating?
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
See those ICQ logs that were posted? Don't you think that's a horrific invasion of privacy? What right have you to complain about Carnivore snooping on you if it's ok for other people to invade people's privacy, even if you don't like the victims? Fight fire with water, not fire people, please.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
When is the last time you saw a transcript made public before the investigation began? This going public may prompt an investigation, and I certainly hope it does (see post #209). On the down side with the logs themselves being made public much of them may be discarded, when instead they could have been used to very effectively demonstrate/prove a case ...
That helps no one.
And if during these investigations no one finds evidence that can be pursued, or if the logs themselves can be questioned in regards to factuality, then that can open an entirely new can of worms.
The bigger issue is the webmasters owed thousands of dollars, and the broken deals/contracts that keep them beholden to the e-company. If it pans out, it is certainly wrong, if not criminal.
On an aside I think I have blown more time on this discussion today than on anything I have worked on the whole previous week, but it's certainly been an interesting learning exercize.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
I have been thinking, thanks to paranormalized -- whose comment I do not believe was redundant. If anyone were confused into thinking that the above faked dialog was legitimate, it is not ...
I was using it to illustrate a point, that all things considered, I do not believe these logs should be taken as indisputable, irrefutable evidence of wrongdoing, partially because of the "disgruntled" nature of their being revealed, andd partially because of the possibility for logs, even large ones like these to be faked.
I also believe that due to the publicity these logs will receive on /. they probably would not stand a snowball's chance in hell of being admissible as evidence in any case brought against e-what's-their-name. If there are any current investigations I can virtually guarantee that somewhere there is a prosecuting attorney going to /.'s home page and saying "oh hell, there goes a LOT of evidence."
Finally I believe that it is probably beneath SlashDot to participate in promoting questionably-substantiated views towards a company or individual.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Excellent. :)
Regarding the nature of the record's revelation how might a court's opinion turn?
MODERATORS MOD THE POST I AM REPLYING TO UP.
Thanks again for the excellent post!
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
If "gay" implies that the the person has sex with men (or wants to), what's wrong with this? "straight" implies that the person has sex with women! (or wants to)
This
>Exactly why should anyone trust logs posted to a >web site? Especially when someone's reputation is >involved? I've been following this for the past couple of days, and several of the people who were talked about or had conversations that are in the logs have confirmed that they are valid.
Connected to arcadeathome.efront.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
Referer: http://mamedk.cjb.net/
HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:21:20 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.12
X-Powered-By: PHP/4.0.3pl1
Location: http://goatse.cx/
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
I was the first person to get the logs from the hacker (kebie) I have no idea what any of that mumbo jumbo means, especialy because I live in Canada. I originaly gave the logs out to webmasters, because I was so pissed off, #1 I hadnt been paid in 5months, and #2 my net was getting cut off.. Plus efront was trying to blackmail us into new contracts.. they wouldn't give backpay till we signed these new crazy contracts that gave us no rights at all.. Me being the webmaster who was owed next to no money ($421), took it upon myself to release the logs. If any of the other webmasters did they would liable to lose $30,000+ and their sites. The logs had only been through 1 person before me, from what I know.
Yeah, very few geeks are interested in video games, specifically emulation. *cough* ;) The logs are only minimally 'emu/rom' related. The real deal here is that websites are getting screwed by these guys. Lots of different sites. It's important that people know about this, because a lot of webmasters are getting shafted without knowing the full extent of how bad it's happening. Large scale internet fraud? Sounds like news for nerds, and most certainly stuff that matters.
This slashdot court of public opinion can be a little dangerous. Just a few thoughts.
And these guys deserve every last bit of dripping venom. Dig into the logs and check it out for yourself, and then fear the next business deal you ever make. It's definately something to be learned from, if only to see how far people can plot against you behind your back.
BytesTemplar.com
The rules of admissibility apply at such point in time as the evidence is put before a court. Because this information was gathered improperly before the investigation, but more importantly because these logs are electronic certain standards would likely be required by the court for any such records to be allowed into the case. Not to mention the potential argument of prejudice in releasing the logs publically before any charges were filed.
Did the parties who made these allegations feel their case is so weak that they would rather the case be tried in public opinion instead of in a court of law? That is what this says to me.
All legal arguments aside don't you feel it is unnecessarily risky of Slashdot to post these kkinds of allegations? The law DID say innocent until proven guilty, at least the last time I checked ...
If the parties that are responsible for these logs being posted do not have these logs to back up their claims, then their case is shaky. If they lose their case, then Slashdot becomes party to libel in civil court.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
And I'm not quite referring to this individual, who seems to be quite questionable, but rather why slashdot has gotten involved. Personally I am not connected much with the emu/rom community and I don't know all the details and I would venture to say most slashdot users are not either. Sounds like this person is going to be getting a full scale character assinsation by the slashdot community who are not really involved or knowledgable in the subject at hand. This slashdot court of public opinion can be a little dangerous. Just a few thoughts.
Excellent point re: not mentioning libel. They say cease and desist, but they don't say "this is categorically untrue."
Post your as a reply to the original blurb, not buried down here in the replies. More people should see this.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Normally I would think that this was a trial by /. but the problem I have with that is the simple fact that these logs have been around 24-48 hours (fc yesterday morning).
Even if these logs are not authentic it does raise security issues surrounding ICQ, Yahoo's IM etc that are probably not well known.
I mean, c'mon anyone ever going to use ICQ for anything like this ever again?
I doubt it.
'Whatever'