Well I just don't agree.:-) Business HAS shown incredible interest in Linux. And there's NO reason to think they'll stop supporting it. Thanks to AOL (did I really say that?) and others, Linux and Mozilla will soon be in end user Internet boxes. And once people see how cool it is, it will spread to their main PCs when they buy them. That's just one of many ways it can spread.
Mozilla will help Linux. Many new web sites will be designed around XUL, which is completely cross platform.
Schools will continue to use Linux increasingly both to save money and because of its power. Once kids get addicted to it there, what do you think they're gonna want to use at home?
I'm not saying it will happen overnight. We have 4 and a half years yet for my prediction to come true. And it will.:-) 4.5 years is an eternity in the world of computers.
Re:Wishful and unrealistic thinking
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Lineo Plans IPO
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You're right that a recession would hurt Corel and VA, like most other companies. But Linux would bloom!
Microsoft could (and will) lower their prices sure, but remember that open source has a lot more benefits than cost.
Heck, a recession that left some geeks temporarily unemployed could spur on the development of Linux more rapidly.... there's all kinds of possibilities here.
Re:Wishful and unrealistic thinking
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Lineo Plans IPO
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Inertia is the only reason it won't happen before 2003. Of course there will still be a lot of 'Doze systems around in 2005 due to people not going out of their way to upgrade. But almost all new computers will primarily run an open source OS.
This will be sped up by the next economic recession. During a recession, people will be more likely to choose the cheaper option. Open source IS cheaper, but that's the least of its benefits. The other benefits will be obvious to all by then. A recession probably will happen before 2005.
What does everyone think about the outlook on Linux stocks in general?
I've predicted before, and I hold to it, that by the beginning of the year 2005, the dominant OS that everyone uses will be open source. This will most likely be Linux, unless Microsoft wakes up in time and open sources W2K.
With the Itanium chip and the S/390 port, it's clear that Linux will continue to gain server marketshare. With Mozilla (including XUL), KOffice (and others), and Borland Kylix, it's clear that Linux will be a strong contendor on the desktop within a year or so.
So when picking long term stocks, I'm ASSUMING Linux will dominate, eventually. I even assume that and sleep well at night. I really am convinced of it. The question is -- will it be enough to drive Linux stocks back up? My guesses...
VA Linux: They seem to be doing just about everything right. They're building good name recognition, have lots of talent, have a reputation for quality, and are in a good position to capitalize on the coming Linux server explosion. Based on that, it *should* get back up to the over $100 level. The question is when.
Red Hat and Caldera: Who knows. Their products are too easy to duplicate and the support market, while potentially lucrative, could also get saturated.
Lineo: This one has potential, but fully open source embedded Linux variants may edge it out.
Cobalt: If they're smart, they should be able to continue to develop innovative Linux based products and go up from where they are now.
Borland: I think that one will be my hot growth pick fo the second half of this year (I'd buy now but this market SUCKS). The promise of Kylix is already increasing Windows Delphi sales.
Corel: If they can become profitable late this year or early next year, it will hit $20 again. Maybe $40. Remember, I'm assuming Linux WILL take the desktop, and they're in a good position to capitalise on it. It assumes they can make it through their current cash crunch without screwing themselves with debt though. Big assumption.
Well, they said the same thing about Netscape not being able to go open source for much the same reasons, and look what happened.:-)
Actually I think the newer versions of OS/2 have pretty much removed MS code. There may be some, but the WorkPlace Shell, and all the 32 bit stuff is pretty much completely IBM AFAIK. I believe their HPFS filesystem has some M$ code in it.
What IBM should do is release what they can (which is most of it) and let the open source community do what they want. I bet a nice OS/2 compatible OS would eventually materialise.
they NEED to be open source. That is the primary thing I look at when buying hardware for Linux. I'm getting a monster new computer within the next couple months, and I will probably get a G400 due to its open source drivers.
If you're going to Mexico to relax on the beach, that might be reasonable.
If you're taking a long trip, there are plenty of advantages to being connected. At least for geeks. Like keeping family and friends updated by sending them photos. And trading stocks if you're into that -- who would want to miss a great buying opportunity because they're cut off from the market? Not to mention checking Slashdot.:-)
It's been 3 months since the announcement. Shouldn't that be long enough for someone to start making and marketing one, or at least publicly committing?
The Linux Journal I just received has an article on them and states "These devices are just beginning to reach the market..." priced at about $999. But it lacks details of who makes them, and I haven't heard it anywhere.
I want one. Now. I'll pay $500 or maybe $1000 if it's standards compliant, runs Mozilla, and can be upgraded to newer versions and supports all Web standards. These things would be huge timesavers. I could do all my casual websurfing (that I MUST do every day to stay sane) when I would otherwise be wasting time - like in the car, etc.
I heard about this improvement a while ago and was thinking....
Would it maybe be possible to do symbolic integration with Perl regular expressions????
Scary thought, but it seems as though regexes and symbolic integration use roughly the same sort of processing technique. And now that they can be recursed it may well be possible... who knows...
Yeah it does, but at least it's open source now. And you can use it on an operating system that doesn't have to be rebooted every 38 seconds, has a hideous registry system, and the most horrible GUI on the face of the earth!
Well it's been almost 3 hours and it's still running!:-) Certainly much better than previous Ms.
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
Works for me. And I remember looking at the bug list, and that they had fixed that "bug".
D'oh! You're right. I tried it again and it does indeed work. Cool!
As for the rest of your problems, some of them I've seen bug reports on, but some I haven't. But hte best thing for anyone with problems to do is to go to bugzilla.mozilla.org and report the bug there. Complaining on Slashdot will get you nothing, even if it does feel good to vent.
Yeah... I think I'll do exactly that after I've been using it a little longer. Thanks!
Surfing around relentlessly. Linux version of course. Not a single crash yet, and they fixed the bad HTTP authentication password bug that plagued M14. Good job! Everything seem to render well also.
But there are still a few minor details. I can surf with it now, but fixing these would make it infinitely nicer. And I probably won't rpm -e netscape until they're fixed.
1. The Alt-arrow keys for page forward/backward don't seem to work 2. When pressing BACK, it ALWAYS reloads the previous page from the network. That's ridiculous, and slow. Yes, I do have cache turned on and a directory set. 3. When opening link in new window (via the pop up window) and then closing that window, the up/down arrow keys do NOT work on the original page you were at until you click on a link to move to another page. The scrollbar works fine. 4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it? 5. Sometimes silly things don't work like when I click the "Pricewatch" link on Slashdot's slash box. Hmmm.
Nevertheless, this is the first milestone I may actually use for a signifcant portion of my browsing. Good work!
I went outside once. I recommend that you don't bother. For one thing, there's this big bright thing that makes it impossible to see clearly. Secondly, outside there are nasty things like poisonous snakes, sharks, and grizzly bears! You don't want to chance running into those -- just stay inside! Also, you might run the risk of seeing a person you don't know -- someone who might not know how to recompile the Linux kernel. Then you'd have to find something ELSE to talk about. Horrors!
Next year are they gonna head for southern Africa to try to catch the eclipse again?
I know I'm gonna try to be there for it, but don't particularly want to travel there on my own. So if there's a LBW connected with it I'd consider joining.
If you're paying for your bandwidth, NO WAY! Not even close. I downloaded it and it just displayed the Netscape 6 page and froze right away. I wouldn't pay 5 cents for it...
And Opera for Linux is nowhere near ready. I was just using it (alpha 3) some today to test a website. It crashes often and renders things incorrectly. It even seems rather slow -- displaying a JPEG image was downright glacial!
Uuugh! Downloaded the tar.gz from ftp8.netscape.com (no silly install program, it untarrs in to.../package just like mozilla).
After asking me for a profile name (slowly), the main window came up (slowly again) and then pretty much froze! I have not been able to do ANYTHING with it!
My CPU is a Cyrix 166. Could that be the problem???
No one's mentioned this yet. Perl/TK is actually quite nice, for some things. Now, I wouldn't recommend it for a large program of any kind, or anything involving CPU-intensive calculations. But it has a fine GUI that's powerful and relatively easy to learn. And the canvas rocks! Check out the demo widget program. You'll be impressed.
Apparently you haven't asked Loki what they've done with g++. Of course, they did have to patch it for Heavy Gear II... but even their other stuff is pretty impressive!
And g++ will soon be much better. Wait for version 3 and the new libstdc++. Then we should have about everything we need for C++ on LInux. Well, and a debugger that can step over STL crap automatically....
We don't need robot drivers in a human controlled world. We need to replace the entire infrastructure to allow computers to do ALL driving!
How it would work: Computerised cars and computerised signal towers every few hundred feet or so. The signal towers would control pretty much everything the cars do.
All the human would have to do is tell it to go to whatever address. Then take a nap!
Computers should be able to do everything more efficiently, working together with each other. This should have side benefits like saving gas and almost eliminating traffic deaths.
Heck, it would probably even be cheaper in the long run. Cars could have many of their controls removed, computers are cheap, and like I mentioned, it should be able to save on gas.
I guess the biggest barrier to this is just that - replacing the infrastructure. We could use the same roads (at least for a while) but we'd need huge amounts of computer equipment, and then we'd need to force all human drivers off the roads. THAT is what would be hard.:-)
Slashdot Mirror
Well I just don't agree. :-) Business HAS shown incredible interest in Linux. And there's NO reason to think they'll stop supporting it. Thanks to AOL (did I really say that?) and others, Linux and Mozilla will soon be in end user Internet boxes. And once people see how cool it is, it will spread to their main PCs when they buy them. That's just one of many ways it can spread.
:-) 4.5 years is an eternity in the world of computers.
Mozilla will help Linux. Many new web sites will be designed around XUL, which is completely cross platform.
Schools will continue to use Linux increasingly both to save money and because of its power. Once kids get addicted to it there, what do you think they're gonna want to use at home?
I'm not saying it will happen overnight. We have 4 and a half years yet for my prediction to come true. And it will.
You're right that a recession would hurt Corel and VA, like most other companies. But Linux would bloom!
Microsoft could (and will) lower their prices sure, but remember that open source has a lot more benefits than cost.
Heck, a recession that left some geeks temporarily unemployed could spur on the development of Linux more rapidly.... there's all kinds of possibilities here.
Inertia is the only reason it won't happen before 2003. Of course there will still be a lot of 'Doze systems around in 2005 due to people not going out of their way to upgrade. But almost all new computers will primarily run an open source OS.
This will be sped up by the next economic recession. During a recession, people will be more likely to choose the cheaper option. Open source IS cheaper, but that's the least of its benefits. The other benefits will be obvious to all by then. A recession probably will happen before 2005.
I have seen it stated before -- I actually don't remember the source unfortunately. No, I don't claim to be a journalist. :-)
What does everyone think about the outlook on Linux stocks in general?
I've predicted before, and I hold to it, that by the beginning of the year 2005, the dominant OS that everyone uses will be open source. This will most likely be Linux, unless Microsoft wakes up in time and open sources W2K.
With the Itanium chip and the S/390 port, it's clear that Linux will continue to gain server marketshare. With Mozilla (including XUL), KOffice (and others), and Borland Kylix, it's clear that Linux will be a strong contendor on the desktop within a year or so.
So when picking long term stocks, I'm ASSUMING Linux will dominate, eventually. I even assume that and sleep well at night. I really am convinced of it. The question is -- will it be enough to drive Linux stocks back up? My guesses...
VA Linux: They seem to be doing just about everything right. They're building good name recognition, have lots of talent, have a reputation for quality, and are in a good position to capitalize on the coming Linux server explosion. Based on that, it *should* get back up to the over $100 level. The question is when.
Red Hat and Caldera: Who knows. Their products are too easy to duplicate and the support market, while potentially lucrative, could also get saturated.
Lineo: This one has potential, but fully open source embedded Linux variants may edge it out.
Cobalt: If they're smart, they should be able to continue to develop innovative Linux based products and go up from where they are now.
Borland: I think that one will be my hot growth pick fo the second half of this year (I'd buy now but this market SUCKS). The promise of Kylix is already increasing Windows Delphi sales.
Corel: If they can become profitable late this year or early next year, it will hit $20 again. Maybe $40. Remember, I'm assuming Linux WILL take the desktop, and they're in a good position to capitalise on it. It assumes they can make it through their current cash crunch without screwing themselves with debt though. Big assumption.
Any more thoughts?
It's relevant. Most people here have an interest in Linux, and many have an interest in stocks. It's not like this happens every day.
Well, they said the same thing about Netscape not being able to go open source for much the same reasons, and look what happened. :-)
Actually I think the newer versions of OS/2 have pretty much removed MS code. There may be some, but the WorkPlace Shell, and all the 32 bit stuff is pretty much completely IBM AFAIK. I believe their HPFS filesystem has some M$ code in it.
What IBM should do is release what they can (which is most of it) and let the open source community do what they want. I bet a nice OS/2 compatible OS would eventually materialise.
I never once received an ILOVEYOU. I feel deprived. I kinda wanted to see it. :-) Of course, using Netscape in Linux makes me immune...
Please?
they NEED to be open source. That is the primary thing I look at when buying hardware for Linux. I'm getting a monster new computer within the next couple months, and I will probably get a G400 due to its open source drivers.
If you're going to Mexico to relax on the beach, that might be reasonable.
:-)
If you're taking a long trip, there are plenty of advantages to being connected. At least for geeks. Like keeping family and friends updated by sending them photos. And trading stocks if you're into that -- who would want to miss a great buying opportunity because they're cut off from the market? Not to mention checking Slashdot.
Also agreed. I paid about $1/hour for a cybercafe in Guatemala City. Only problem was they were crappy slow Win95 boxes with 640X480 resolution. Ouch.
:-) (except for the minor point that I had to wait until I got back home to USE it...)
But at least it let me know quickly when Linux 2.2 was released.
It's been 3 months since the announcement. Shouldn't that be long enough for someone to start making and marketing one, or at least publicly committing?
The Linux Journal I just received has an article on them and states "These devices are just beginning to reach the market..." priced at about $999. But it lacks details of who makes them, and I haven't heard it anywhere.
I want one. Now. I'll pay $500 or maybe $1000 if it's standards compliant, runs Mozilla, and can be upgraded to newer versions and supports all Web standards. These things would be huge timesavers. I could do all my casual websurfing (that I MUST do every day to stay sane) when I would otherwise be wasting time - like in the car, etc.
I heard about this improvement a while ago and was thinking....
Would it maybe be possible to do symbolic integration with Perl regular expressions????
Scary thought, but it seems as though regexes and symbolic integration use roughly the same sort of processing technique. And now that they can be recursed it may well be possible... who knows...
> Netscape blows.
Yeah it does, but at least it's open source now. And you can use it on an operating system that doesn't have to be rebooted every 38 seconds, has a hideous registry system, and the most horrible GUI on the face of the earth!
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
Works for me. And I remember looking at the bug list, and that they had fixed that "bug".
D'oh! You're right. I tried it again and it does indeed work. Cool!
As for the rest of your problems, some of them I've seen bug reports on, but some I haven't. But hte best thing for anyone with problems to do is to go
to bugzilla.mozilla.org and report the bug there. Complaining on Slashdot will get you nothing, even if it does feel good to vent.
Yeah... I think I'll do exactly that after I've been using it a little longer. Thanks!
Surfing around relentlessly. Linux version of course. Not a single crash yet, and they fixed the bad HTTP authentication password bug that plagued M14. Good job! Everything seem to render well also.
But there are still a few minor details. I can surf with it now, but fixing these would make it infinitely nicer. And I probably won't rpm -e netscape until they're fixed.
1. The Alt-arrow keys for page forward/backward don't seem to work
2. When pressing BACK, it ALWAYS reloads the previous page from the network. That's ridiculous, and slow. Yes, I do have cache turned on and a directory set.
3. When opening link in new window (via the pop up window) and then closing that window, the up/down arrow keys do NOT work on the original page you were at until you click on a link to move to another page. The scrollbar works fine.
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
5. Sometimes silly things don't work like when I click the "Pricewatch" link on Slashdot's slash box. Hmmm.
Nevertheless, this is the first milestone I may actually use for a signifcant portion of my browsing. Good work!
I went outside once. I recommend that you don't bother. For one thing, there's this big bright thing that makes it impossible to see clearly. Secondly, outside there are nasty things like poisonous snakes, sharks, and grizzly bears! You don't want to chance running into those -- just stay inside! Also, you might run the risk of seeing a person you don't know -- someone who might not know how to recompile the Linux kernel. Then you'd have to find something ELSE to talk about. Horrors!
No eclipse this year. :-(
Next year are they gonna head for southern Africa to try to catch the eclipse again?
I know I'm gonna try to be there for it, but don't particularly want to travel there on my own. So if there's a LBW connected with it I'd consider joining.
If you're paying for your bandwidth, NO WAY! Not even close. I downloaded it and it just displayed the Netscape 6 page and froze right away. I wouldn't pay 5 cents for it...
And Opera for Linux is nowhere near ready. I was just using it (alpha 3) some today to test a website. It crashes often and renders things incorrectly. It even seems rather slow -- displaying a JPEG image was downright glacial!
Uuugh! Downloaded the tar.gz from ftp8.netscape.com (no silly install program, it untarrs in to .../package just like mozilla).
After asking me for a profile name (slowly), the main window came up (slowly again) and then pretty much froze! I have not been able to do ANYTHING with it!
My CPU is a Cyrix 166. Could that be the problem???
No one's mentioned this yet. Perl/TK is actually quite nice, for some things. Now, I wouldn't recommend it for a large program of any kind, or anything involving CPU-intensive calculations. But it has a fine GUI that's powerful and relatively easy to learn. And the canvas rocks! Check out the demo widget program. You'll be impressed.
Apparently you haven't asked Loki what they've done with g++. Of course, they did have to patch it for Heavy Gear II... but even their other stuff is pretty impressive!
And g++ will soon be much better. Wait for version 3 and the new libstdc++. Then we should have about everything we need for C++ on LInux. Well, and a debugger that can step over STL crap automatically....
We don't need robot drivers in a human controlled world. We need to replace the entire infrastructure to allow computers to do ALL driving!
:-)
How it would work: Computerised cars and computerised signal towers every few hundred feet or so. The signal towers would control pretty much everything the cars do.
All the human would have to do is tell it to go to whatever address. Then take a nap!
Computers should be able to do everything more efficiently, working together with each other. This should have side benefits like saving gas and almost eliminating traffic deaths.
Heck, it would probably even be cheaper in the long run. Cars could have many of their controls removed, computers are cheap, and like I mentioned, it should be able to save on gas.
I guess the biggest barrier to this is just that - replacing the infrastructure. We could use the same roads (at least for a while) but we'd need huge amounts of computer equipment, and then we'd need to force all human drivers off the roads. THAT is what would be hard.