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Netscape 6 Preview Release
deadpixel writes, "The Netscape 6 preview has been released. Really small download. No more Mozilla, sniff.
" Kinda sad, but I think I'll use the Mozilla icon for this just
as a tribute ;)
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
ftp://meli es.isee3d.com/pub/netscape-v600pr1.x86-unknown-lin ux2.2.tar.gz Enjoy.
I know my site works perfectly fine.
.css file
Instead of using document.all and document.layers I use document.getElementById - this way 99% of my code works in both Mozilla/Netscape 6 and IE without a browser sniffer.
I've had to use a browser sniffer because IE doesn't handle floating layers the same as Moz/w3c (I don't mean absolute/relative, I mean float). So I had to have a browser sniffer to add an IE specific
I've also had to use a browser sniffer because IE doesn't read key presses the same way as the standards. So I have to add one extra line of code to fix this.
Programming for mozilla/netscap6 is beautiful. 90% of the stuff I want to do already works and the program isn't even feature complete!
Some of those "personal bookmarks" aren't really bookmarks. They seem to be persistent and non-removable. Not sure how happy I am that a link to AIM is permanently embedded into my personal toolbar. It was crowded already.
I don't get it--this is *exactly* what was supposed to happen. Mozilla is the open-source tree, and Netscape periodically snapshots the tree and releases that as their next version.
The only thing I don't like about it is not having the exact source for the Netscape snapshot after they've monkeyed with it.
There is a piece of software called "Microsoft Client For Proxy Networks". I believe you can find it on downloads.com or M$'s homepage. When installed and activated, it hacks the normal M$ TCP/IP network objects so all Win32 programs can be used with a proxy network without any special support. Therefore Eudora, Outlook, U.T., and rude installation programs may be used. I wish I knew of a program/module for linux that did this.
Chances are that's tweakable in Mozilla, just like 4.x. All the keyboard shortcuts are changeable in NS 4.x (Mandrake, in particular, changes them to be consistent with conventional unix use). There's a file Netscape.ad that comes with Netscape UNIX tarballs that can be edited and then copied to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults/Netscape
Since I'm not logged in this will probably stay below many eyes, but...
I'd like to say that I agree with Stiletto and am concerned by the growing number of "smart" downloads. Exactly who are they helping?
My primary objection to them is that they have the potential to leak information about your system to the site you are downloading from. Once you run that "smart setup" locally, it can tell it's parent company lots of information about your system starting with simple things like exact platform and IP address, but potentially going much further ala real networks and reporting on other software packages you have installed, your real name, your various serial numbers, data files on your system, etc etc.
Sure there is some of this risk attached to full version of a download, but it is safer because you can run the installer offline, while you aren't connected. Also, you can install that single download onto a number of different systems, saving bandwidth and preserving your privacy.
Yes, I'm probably paranoid but why else are we seeing so many of these "smart" installers? Hello! *I'm* pretty smart (at least I think I am) and I don't need some crappy wizard to install software. Please give me the option of doing it myself and go get your demographic information somewhere else.
(rant off)
-Outland Traveller
Uuugh! Downloaded the tar.gz from ftp8.netscape.com (no silly install program, it untarrs in to .../package just like mozilla).
After asking me for a profile name (slowly), the main window came up (slowly again) and then pretty much froze! I have not been able to do ANYTHING with it!
My CPU is a Cyrix 166. Could that be the problem???
And Opera for Linux is nowhere near ready. I was just using it (alpha 3) some today to test a website. It crashes often and renders things incorrectly. It even seems rather slow -- displaying a JPEG image was downright glacial!
If you're paying for your bandwidth, NO WAY! Not even close. I downloaded it and it just displayed the Netscape 6 page and froze right away. I wouldn't pay 5 cents for it...
My test for mozilla (and now netscape 6) has been to load www.enlightenment.org properly.
:) Of course, it's probably because they're using a closed source crypto library or something.
:) Though I do wish wish wish that the "hit back button == reload page from the site" thing would get fixed. This is one area that IE kicks ass in sadly :( When you from from a intensive page (eg: a theme gallery on themes.org) to another page, then hit back, IE will simply display the page but ns has to reload the page... and if the page has dynamic content, well, that means going back to the server, which sucks.
Netscape 6 fails. Something in raster's table code no doubt, but netscape and ie render it just dandy, but the last few milestones of mozilla and now ns (using 99% mozilla from what I can see) fails.
Other impressions are good. It's a more polished (note I didn't say just "polished") mozilla. The intro page is cute too, and mail seems (from a cursory glance) to work.
HTTPS works too which is a huge bonus
htaccess sites work fine too, but you need to hit TAB a few times to get from the username to the password dailoge.
Rendering and resizing are as always, lightning fast
IMHO, adding this, in addition to the existing speed of the rendering engine (well, and more polishing) would give ns/mozilla a HUGE edge.
my $0.02
alan
I realize that 99% of this is sarcasm, but I have to agree :)
:) and yes, I did get a large speed increase.
'sides, the reason I started using linux in the first place was that it wasn't a point and drool interface. And yes, I have made my own distro
It keeps me off the streets anyway. Do a search for "Linux from scratch howto" if you're interested in how to do it yourself.
Why would you want to limit your own functionality? I mean wanting to have the option of downloading only a simple browser is very understandable, but not even wanting to give yourself the option of downloading anything else?
That's just silly.
~Chris
For Windows (and eventually Linux, it's alpha now) check out Opera. For Macs ICab is excellent.
Oh dear, Netscape 6 PR1 has the worst thing of Netscape betas (please show me a stable and responsive first beta of any Netscape product and I'll show you you took too much LSD). Netscape 6 PR1 is a big and horrible memory hog. Netscape 6 PR1 is essentially a renamed Mozilla milestone with AOL crap.
But hey, it rules. And it will kick IE's big fat ass. Now hoping Netscape/AOL guys trim it down.
*Go Judge Jackson Go!*
Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
come on. Netrape corporation was pulling that FartDownload crap long before they were flushed down the toilet into the AOL septic tank.
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
it only needs to do one thing to beat IE. Replace it in AOL's package. If AOL were to use Netscape instead of IE, it would turn the whole game around, probably within 6 months, and you know it. Bill Gates probably doesn't give a rat's ass about the gummint. He has trouble sleeping at night over AOL, and the potential they have to snatch from him the world he was about to take over.
It's not interesting yet.
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Yes, I know this is a beta, but I have yet to see any program improve 200% over a preview version, which is what this needs.
i have actually seen this happen in one program before. ie4 improved in speed several orders of magnitude between the first preview releases and the actual released browser. although to be fair to ie, most of he speed improvement was in the "desktop integration" area, not the browser itself (meaning the preview releases slowed down your whole system, not just the web browser). the other thing was that the preview releases allowed you to do a lot of things with the desktop integration that was removed from the final release, presumably because there was no way that you could do what they were trying to do without crushing even the most modern hardware at the time.
still, that kind of speed increase between a preview and a release product is possible, but probably only with a sacrifice in features.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
I tried out the browser. It is extremely slow running on my P166. The actual rendering is faster, but it seems to be consuming more resources than 4.x.
Where is the Solaris version? Is it coming anytime soon?
Java 2 is a real pig. I thought the JVM in 4.x was bad! It also doesn't seem to be very consistent. The applet on java.sun.com wouldn't load.
It looks like all the Personal Security Manager stuff is there, but it certainly does not decrypt my S/MIME mail with my certificate imported. Was this working in Mozilla when Netscape branded this release?
There is no roaming access. This is a feature that I will need to have before I start using version 6. I do not want to go back to copying my preferences and bookmarks all over the place.
On the website, Netscape makes reference to a CCK for version 6. Where is this? Where is the documentation?
Who can I complain to about all this? AOL are you listening?
This is a really sorry release. I tried going to My Yahoo, but it was extremely slow, and it didn't hold the cookie, so I keep having to log in. When I submitted my feedback to Netscape I got an error saying that there were server problems. I'm not sure how much effort I'm going to put into testing this.
Oh I must have forgot that they include rendering examples for the standards that they are talking about. You could probably find the standard compliance information at mozilla.org as well. Of course we probably should just believe that benevolent BIGBROTHERCO will continue to abide by standards when there is no competition. I guess I'm just a silly linux bigot!
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
Chill out! The standards compliance has been there since day one. It was the foundation mozilla was built on. This communism stuff is laying it on a bit thick. Go back to freaking windrivers.com if you can't handle that in some respects Windows isn't the only game in town. Some people, jeez.
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
And what does Netscape being bloated under linux have to do with standards compliance? I pointed out that Netscape 6 will comply to more standards. Don't like it. Don't use it. Market forces in action. To freaking bad about how it sucks under linux. Personally I run IE all the time at work, because I can't live without full screen viewing. Remember I pointed out that Netscape 6 would be more standards compliant than IE. And who is talking about self-righteous arrogance and hypocrisy? I also run Netscape 4.72 on linux at home and it seems downright peppy for me, faster than 4.71.
You're obviously just clueless. The comparison to animal farm is strikingly misguided. Am I to understand that even when I've been given evidence to prove a point (i.e. standard compliance tests) that I'm to ignore the evidence because of some guilt about prefering one thing (linux) over another (windows)?
IE is feature rich, Netscape 6 will be standards compliant. It will be up to the consumer to make the best choice. I'll probably take standards compliant because (A) There is no IE on Linux (B) Features can be added later (C) There will be no choice if netscape goes away.
Yeah, you're a true individual! You're brightness shines in our darkness. Let your dim light shine pal.
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
You're way off. The whole point of mozilla was standards compliance. In fact there is a chart comparing the compliance of the various browsers at the netscape download site. Why don't you look at it?
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
Looks pretty good to me and runs pretty fast on my linux box. Dunno what everyone is moaning about. This is NOT a final release so is gonna have a few rough edges. OK, so it does seem to pinch more RAM than you'd hope but that seems to be the same with everything these days. Congrats to all involved.
Could be. That stupid waste of space called a toolbar is the first thing I turn off in both Netscape and IE. Why waste the screen space on buttons you have to drag you mouse halfway across the screen to get to and click on when the exact same functionality and more is available by simply right-clicking without moving the mouse? Millions of users would suddenly become far more productive and find their browser easier to use if they were forced to run with the toolbar off for a weeThen again, maybe it's my taste.k.
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Err, sorry, runaway paste.
s/weeThen again, maybe it's my taste.k/week/
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
* A home button. I'm definitely not the first to comment about this.
Both of these are present on the "Go" menu on Netscape 4.72 (I know, since I always immediately turn of the toolbar on Netscape, since it contains NO feature that's not already present elsewhere, so it just wastes screen space). Does 6PR1 have a "Go" menu? Try that if it does.
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
It may be nice - however the installer doesn't seem to have Proxy/SOCKS support for those in firewalled/protected or otherwise networks. I think that's definitely going to inhibit the uptake of this beta.
I downloaded it perfectly thru my proxy. I don't know what problems others are having, probably misconfigured proxies.
Does the Mozilla licence allow AOL to withdraw the open-source project once its fruits are realised? If AOL (prone to putting advertising and promotional tie-ins everywhere) face competition from a free version of their browser that doesn't show banner ads, can they do anything about it without resorting to UCITA's license-revocation provisions?
um, i think this will change once aol starts using netscape6 as the default aol browser... all those aol/ie users will then suddenly be aol/ns users -- a pretty hefty market share.
who knows when that'll be tho'
Probably because you haven't checked it out as of late, but in my experiences, you can't get a better web browser than IE5 for the mac. Blazing fast, quite stable (as far as the browser is concerned, although its wonderful while running under OSXDP3). So basically, its good everywhere except Solaris, but then again, isn't Solaris sorta lousy too? *duck*
Bottom line: configurability is the key.
With the beta release of Gecko and the announcment that companies like IBM, Intel, Liberate, NetObjects, Nokia, and Sun Microsystems, Gateway are planning to use Gecko and embed into their own apps and on to non-PC devices, I am no longer worried.
The whole point of MS putting so much effort and energy into IE was to prevent this from happeneing; to prevent the PC and Windows from becoming irrelevant in the internet age. They have failed. The war is over.
ENDUT! HOCH HECH!
I actually would prefer to see Netscape be pixel-identical on every platform (probably with a Windoze-style interface to make the masses happy). If there is "themeing" it should also work the same on all platforms, though I also think that Slashdot geeks way overestimate the appeal of themes to the average user (Windoze has had the ability to change the window color since version 3.0, yet almost no non-geek users do this. Customization is limited to changing the desktop image. If you don't believe me, take a look at a real business office and the Windoze machines on each person's desk).
Judging by the comments ("html rendering is fast but the menus are slow") it sounds like Mozilla/Netscape botched this. There is no excuse for the slow gui. I thought they were using GTK, which is pretty fast. However it now sounds like they put some sort of wrapper above it so they can use something different on Windoze and that resulted in this horrid behavior.
A kind soul has posted the URL to the setup program on the ftp site, so this post is kinda beside the point, but .. the biggest thing I can't stand about those installers is that they don't tell you where they're saving the files.
I like downloading something once and only once. This is why I download the whole 35+ MB Windows NT service pack, and this is why I choose download only when downloading IE. Then I can save it in my Downloads folder, and if I reinstall the OS or if my system gets hosed, I don't have to re-download.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Might I dare ask if the stupid interface is supposed to crawl? It's pathetic.
The whole package is great. It renders pages really nicely, and I understand that lots of sites simply don't follow the standards and therefore look strange and all so that's not a problem.. I can take that it crashes now and then since it's a preview, but I -CAN NOT- take that I can actually watch the stupid dialogs draw on the screen!
As far as I know (and this probably wrong :) there is virtually no GTK left under all that blue-green. On the other platforms, there is (again, as I understand) no native widgetry at all. Nor is there any way to hack native widgets onto the system they've developed (though you could fake them with a skin.) Officially, the rationale here is to reduce debugging time (read: cost) by forcing netscape to debug only one widget set instead of 3 or more. Unofficially, while the above is true, that also makes it less difficult for netscape to port Moz to some future CheapAssAOLBox running CheapAssAOLOS. Just my two cents... someone who actually knows anything should feel free to correct me. :)
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
we're expecting the skeletal remains now reanimated by AOL (who have also not set many records for software quality) to make a comeback? MS is the ultimate proof that SW quality means little. If AOL puts it on 20 million+ desktops (which they will within a year) then it'll be back. Trust me...
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
My apologies- I didn't see that Netscape had set up separate QA for netscape (as opposed to Mozilla) for several hours after I posted. Still... besides that rathbun@spamcop isn't registered with Bugzilla (very possible you've used a different email, so I won't call you on that) I find it highly unlikely that you haven't received explanation or commentary from Mozilla folk, especially if it is a standards issue (as suggested by another poster.) They are always prompt to at least comment on the nature and quality of the bug, if nothing else.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
As the Mozilla people explain it, they didn't have much choice. From their point of view, in terms of time and resources, they could debug one GUI. Either that GUI could be Windows, or it could be something XP. They chose XP so that they could continue to support Mac and *nix (which they claimed they couldn't afford otherwise.)
Having made that claim, they then explain there are other benefits: it's unique (got to beat IE at something, they figure.) It's flexible- I mean, they are turning it into a frontend for Zope, among other things. It's consistent across platforms, which is great for large businesses looking to put everything that they do onto intranets and then move to the cheapest possible HW. Oh, and it's skinnable- so if you don't want it to be the same as everyone else's, it doesn't have to be. Yet another advantage.
Of course, the other advantage that the Mozilla people never mention is that it's 97% cross-platform. That means that when AOL wants to port it to some cheap-ass chip or OS to make internet appliances (which they announced they would do today, BTW) they can do it, and do it quickly and easily. For AOL, this is a huge, huge deal, and it makes a lot of sense for them. That is the biggest reason why we are stuck with XUL and the rest, for better or (as you list in painful detail above) for worse.
~luge(proud user of a new daily every day for more than 6 months)
IAAL,BIANLY
Look at this: Why is mozilla/netscape so huge? And are those ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin /etc/X11/X -auth /var/gdm/:0.xauth :0 ./setiathome -graphics - --------------
really 4 processes, or are those 4 threads sharing the same
memory? All the same, I think mozilla has a huge memory
footprint. Compare with the netscape process I'm also running...
PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT LIB %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND
1707 roland 2 0 57860 52M 45204 R 0 2.5 28.0 5:53 vmware
1781 roland 14 2 39232 38M 11076 R N 0 22.9 20.3 7:34
1783 roland 2 2 39232 38M 11076 S N 0 0.0 20.3 0:00
1784 roland 2 2 39232 38M 11076 S N 0 0.0 20.3 0:00
1785 roland 2 2 39232 38M 11076 S N 0 0.0 20.3 0:00
30294 root 1 0 38076 37M 3708 R 0 15.0 19.7 15:43
1449 roland 0 0 25204 24M 3708 S 0 0.5 13.0 12:33 netscape
7253 roland 20 19 14024 13M 368 R N 0 53.6 7.2 13573m
1709 roland -19 -19 12436 8556 172 S 1710 roland -19 -19 12416 8488 156 S 1708 roland -19 -19 12344 8340 80 S 0 0.0 4.3 0:00 vmware
-----------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
-------------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just sme
Holy Toledo this sucks. I realize that it's only a Beta, but the problem is that they branched off in the totally wrong direction. All these funky new buttons, pointers, sidebars, integrated components....I doubt they'll remove all that stuff for the final release.
And the speed.....GAWD is it slow. To erase the location bar I hit backspace a few times, and then watched as about one character per second disappeared. (this is a K62-350, w/ 64 MB, plenty of swap). It takes at least 30 seconds to start up and open all the darned windows.
Us Linux users NEED NEED NEED konquerer, and fast!
Holy crap. Did AOL/Nutscrape do ANY end-user testing on this piece of garbage? The main change to the browser is that is is NOT easy to use. I find myself searching for just about everything. The toolbars (if you could call them that) are miniscule. Home? How about having the damn button up there along with forward, back, and stop? The icons are lame. Basically, the layout was done to look pretty instead of function well. Maybe my opinion will change, but I am really turned off by this new browser at the moment. They really messed with the toolbar. It makes you change your usual behavior when browsing. This is simple positioning. Then again, maybe it's my taste. Overall, I give Netscape 6 a C.
Ah, maybe things are better on Windows. On Linux there is no custom install, in fact, you untar into a package/ directory and cannot do more than run ./netscape. Adding the --installer copies some old settings but that's it.
Sure, I do not want them to change Mozilla totally, but the main issues with Mozilla (being ugly and not totally mom-friendly yet) haven't been resolved yet and those two issues *are* something I'd expect of a brand.
In fact, I was dissapointed by the amount of branding they did. I know it's only a preview, but I would've hoped to see the --installer convert more than my bookmarks. It didn't copy my Flash install and I doubt it even supports it. It hangs a lot on their startpage. not a good first impression.
I'll stick with 4.7x without Java for most tasks and the real Mozilla builds for the adventure.. this branded preview has little more to offer than Mozilla has.
You would think that NS would have a pipe as fat as the moon to this thing.. but I can't get to it.
Did anyone get it that can mirror?
-- Thrakkerzog
As far as I can see this thing crawls big time
if you have both the browser and the mail
program opened. Perhaps you have one of those very
fast video card but with SVirge with 4M of RAM the old netscape flies compared to this one.
It crashed under SuSE 6.3
I got it to load under Mandrake 7.0 but the more windows I open, the slower it gets.
I think I'll load the Mozilla stuff to see
if there are improvements.
So far I think it's pretty but as for speed
it sucks big time.
I'm surprised no one has answered this yet, but to answer quickly, NO.
The string that is returned goes back a couple of years when your choices in browsers consisted of Mosaic and Mozilla. Mozilla was of course Netscape in its earlier releases. When MICROS~1 designed IE (was there a version before 2.0?) none of the servers would know what MSIE was. Secondly IE more closely resembled Netscape Navigator in the tags that it could parse. Since at the time IE was "compatible" with Netscape, it too adopted Mozilla as it's user-agent string to show that compatibility to the server. Several generations later, many things have changed, but those older legacy portions have remained the same.
Time flies like an arrow;
Time flies like an arrow;
Fruit flies like a bananna
This is best ever like AOL 5 is best ever, it's ugly, demands information from me, crashed already, another stupid download only what you need piece by piece installer like the normal installer for QuickTime 4 that I also hate
In short, the full release had better be a whole lot better or AOL might as well write off their Netscape/Mozilla investment
I'll keep IE
Thanks for the mirror! I was finally able to get this at home. ;)
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
Hmpf. Time to figure out which one of the libstdc++'s on the system actually works with the netscape/mozilla build...
- the Crazy Fraggle
Are they kidding?
I just installed it. The footprint is small, but not very small (11 MB without mail and news or Java). But this program is just to slow to release to a general audience.
I'm by no means an expert, but this looks a lot like Mozilla. It is insanely slow. I have a Pentium 166/64 MB with NT. Not a top-machine, but e.g. IE5 runs on it without problems. Here, if I go past the menu's it takes about a second to build them.
Within 15 seconds I found my first bug. If you ask for a secure site when it isn't secure (accident on my side), like https://www.yahoo.com/ it has a progress indicator for a while, after which it simply ends.
But the speed, or lack of it, is what kills it for me. Am I too cynical or demanding. The strange thing is that the HTML renderer panel is really fast, why did they not use it for the entire user interface?
Does anybody know what is supposed to be new about this thing anyway? I opened an xml-file but nothing spectacular happened...
I've been compiling the source nightly from CVS, and that works beautifully. I think the PR designation of this build is important to regard. This can in no way be considered beta. Alpha, at best. The Gecko components appear stable, but all the Netscape specific features so far are unusable.
i realize that some people don't like the way netscape has been handling the mozilla project, but all open source efforts need to build up
critical mass and get some legitimacy before lots
of people jump on board. now that there is a
real preview version that the average person can
use i think we will start to work ramp up. and we
can let the fun begin. and it also means that people can start coding against the new standards
and have a legitimate complaint that MS doesn't implement the new features.
Prop me up beside the jukebox if I die.
Netscape has always released multiple binaries with its preleases. This is the first time since I can recall (~4.0) where they have not down this. Is Netscape going to forget about the rest? I run IRIX and Netscape is really the only browser out there. I hate it, but that's all there is.
--Ivan, weenie NT4 user: bite me!
--weenie NT4 user: bite me!
"Computers are nothing but a perfect illusion of order" -- Iggy Pop
One complaint about the Netscape 6 PR1 web-based installer... No proxy support. I can't seem to install NS6 on the nice fast pipe here at work. Uggh. Oh well...
-Steve
Has anyone tried running this on Win98? I
did the full install and when I try and launch
the app, nothing, and I mean nothing, happens.
Just curious of anyone else has had similar problems...
First off, this is not intended as a flame, and yes I understand that this is a preview version.
But what the hell is this? The interface uses no standard widgets whatsoever (at least on the Mac version). What's up with that? It is so inconsistent with everything else. And BUTT ASS UGLY!!!
The scroll bars don't look right. My scroll wheel doesn't work. The interface is dog slow. Etc etc etc.
How the hell do I take out the mail, instant message, and all the other crap I don't care for? Don't they realize that some people want JUST A WEB BROWSER ???
And they expect to win people away from IE with this kind of crap? NO THANKS.
Even iCab (http://www.icab.de/) is better than this and iCab is made by some 2 person team in Germany!
Is this the best that million dollar Netscape can do? Give me a break!
Ben
Well you could use a colored table cell to achieve the same effect.
Ben
Hey, their bandwidth agreement only talks about non-HTTP traffic that I download. It doesn't say anything about traffic coming the other way 8-). Still, I'm sure they'll contact me if it becomes a problem...
here
Running just fine on my Slackware 7.0 box...
Anybody know how to get Japanese input (thru kinput2) on the Linux version? Its Japanese display is way better than Communicator, but it doesn't seem to responf to the usual methods for input settings...
So how do I uninstall this thing?
.dlls and what not that were installed is the other half. Hmm. I guess GIJoe was right.
I loaded it up to see what it's like, and well, my P-90 with 24 MB of RAM just ain't happy with me. I guess I'll wait for them to release something that doesn't have as many problems...
With that said, I noticed something. I'm a sinner, and I don't have Linux installed on every machine I use. So I went to the Control Panel, and chose Add/Remove Software to get the quick and dirty done. Well, lo and behold, there's no option to remove the damn thing. Smells of the whole IE situation. Once IE's in (the OS), it's in for good. AOL^H^H^HNetscape decided to apparently play that game and hide itself good. Sure I can remove the folder that I installed in, but as any good M$ user knows, that's only half the battle. Knowing where the extra
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
Most computer users actually believe that bigger number = better.
The more savvy computer users (say, Slashdot readers) don't really care about version numbers and will use the product that works the best for them.
A smaller group of Netscape defenders will parrot some bogus story about Netscape 5 being released a couple years ago. Unfortunately, they are lying -- there was never anything called Netscape 5 released.
So --
1) Lusers use Netscape 6 because bigger is better.
2) Savvy users use Netscape 6 because better is better.
3) Netscape Fans have plausible deniability.
4) Microsoft renames IE 5.5 to IE 6.0
Everyone Wins!
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Any statements that AOL may have made are constrained by the anti-trust trial. "Microsoft won't even let us ship our own product. Boo hoo."
I'm sure (like many people) AOL was hoping that Microsoft would settle the case, and then they would be able to go back and negotiate a better deal. Now that's up in the air, and AOL might have to stay with IE for a number of years.
In the long run, however, Mozilla is a pretty important project for AOL. They can't stay on a closed Win32/Mac binary client forever - at some point they will want to move to a DHTML-based true web interface. Mozilla with it's skins and other features is the obvious platform to get them there.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I don't know about "won't";
Check the newsgroup archives - it's been discussed at length and Mozilla won't do it. You could of course roll your own, but that's kinda pointless except for testing purposes.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
... I can't install this at work because the stupid installer doesn't have options for proxy settings.
I agree that there are cases where you would want to use these installers (like slow modem connections) , but why in the world don't we also have the option of downloading the whole file !??!?!
As for this only being a pre-release version, fine, but "smart download" has been around for a while and you'd think they should have added this "feature" by now. There's no excuse for not having a netscape6-full-install.exe file that we can just download !
- sigs are for wimps.
thankyouthankyouthankyou !!!
When I went to that directory originally, I forgot to check the file size and assumed it was the "smart" installer.
Thanks again !
- sigs are for wimps.
Dude, could you just save us some time and post links to what you're talking about. I found mozillazine/chrome via google but the site seems to be down (or I can't get to it from here).
:)
As far as alphanumeric, that's such a generic word I can't find it using google or any other search engine.
PLEASE USE LINKS !!!! Thanks
- sigs are for wimps.
grrr...
How am I supposed to download this thing behind our firewall ??? I downloaded the "smart" download program but it doesn't have proxy settings !!!
I also went to the ftp sites at netscape, but all they have visible is the smart update installer. NOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!
Help !
- sigs are for wimps.
I'm typing this from 6. Nice download.. I like how you can choose NOT to download news/mail/im. Page rendering is snappy, but menus are all lagged. One thing that annoys me is that I can't find the option to turn off link underlines on the preferences. Oh well. Still quite an improvement over the mozilla "M" releases i've tried.
I just downloaded and installed both the Windows and Linux versions.
:) ) are included.
:).
The Windows version installs itself from a 200k SmartUpdate agent. It worked pretty good, the installation can be customized.
Netscape 6 was really fast on the NT machine.
SSL did not work with my homebanking site, but I think this is due to a known bug in the PSM that has to do with the pathname.
The Windows version still lacks S/MIME support, which I need for work.
Java worked great, it seems as if they integrated jdk1.3 (at least that is what the filename says).
Import filters for Outlook mail, addresses and IE bookmarks (
Now the linux version:
It is not much more than what you get from the daily builds.
No smart installer, just the regular tar package.
Java support is (of course) missing.
S/MIME is not included either and SSL has the same problems with my homebanking site.
The certificates can be imported but not used for email.
It is VERY slow on my AMD K6-2 400. Netscape 4.7 is A LOT faster.
The linux version lacks many of the import filters that the Windows version offers. There is still no "open bookmark file" menu item
Both versions include a built in AIM.
Little but useful features such as autocompletion of the location bar are missing in both versions.
The Windows version makes a pretty stable and rather complete impression, the Linux version is pretty disappointing.
- Linux 2.2 (extracts into "package" directory like Mozilla milestones)
- Windows
- MacOS 8.5
A warning from Netscape's FTP server:Netscape 6 Preview Release 1 is a pre-release version of the next generation browser from Netscape. Given its pre-release status, Netscape recommends that you install this software only if you regularly test pre-release products and that you back up your system prior to installation. Downloading this verison assumes you've read the licensing agreement and understand the potential issues associated with using pre-release products.
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
So how come Netscape (and the mozilla project) both ship a tar.gz which unpacks a directory called "package"??
I've asked this question before as well. Apparently it is a tar file of a "package" subdirectory within the Mozilla build tree. That's all well and good, but is it really that hard to rename the directory before tarring it up?
I'll accept it for nightly builds, though I'd like to see the build ID in the directory name. For Mozilla milestones and especially Netscape-branded releases that are targeted at wider audiences, this is clearly poor behavior.
I guess I should really file a Bugzilla bug about it, assuming it isn't already there.
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
The old Netscape "layer" tag was non-standard, and will not be supported in Mozilla/Netscape 6. My understanding that the equivalent mechanisms used with IE5 should work more or less the same as in IE. (Wow, standards compliance!)
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
I ran into this as well. Just fire up dselect, and install all the libstdc++* packages, and you should be fine.
just to point this out to everyone - the Sullivan skin is nice - but it's not very functional at the moment.
the bookmarks are not "linked" in yet - so there is no way to access or change any thing you may currently have.
-Jae
I also think it's a mistake they decided to use their own widgets instead of Windows widgets. Users like consistency. People are going to look at this and go "What the hell is this? This isn't Netscape. The fonts are too small. This doesn't even look like Windows". Yes, most people are still Windows users, and for software to be succesful it needs to adopt the Principle-of-Least_Surprise.
People want to see something new different too. So it shouldn't look too much like the old netscape. And using their own widgets makes it consistent across platforms. Netscape 4 looks different on linux and windows, this changes now.
Erm, this is a preview release, right? That's "preview" as in "beta" as in "don't expect it to be 100% bug free"?
Perhaps we should wait until the official release before criticising it for its bugs...
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
apache does the same thing
I need to do my laundry
Please send $3 to:
Jon Allen
p.o. box 308142
But there are also a lot of users for which this does not make ANY sense: those paying internet connectivity by the minute for instance.
You lose the ability to do segmented downloads, and so you have to stay N hours online. Then there's a quirk to the Net when you're at 90%, and you're off from step 0 again.
Or you're an university student with dialup connectivity at home. What's better, spending N hours online at home or just downloading the package at the Uni, put it on a ZIP disk or whatever and then install it at home?
Or maybe you don't have any Windows computer in your university lab, and so you can't download IE and take it home because the only installer is for windwows (don't laugh, it happened to me).
Or, again, you are at home with dialup and wish to install the software on 2 computers. Instant 6-8 hours online.
Should I continue? The point is clear: there are cases where installers are just a plain bad idea (not always, but still producers should leave the choice).
Just write a perl script to do it automagically.
I have been trying to use the pr1 for a few hours now, and am totally stumped: whenever i try to access the password manager, it asks me for a master password, which i don't have. What is the default password?
Sigura Non Grata
C'mon guys ... CmdrTaco is allowed to use sarcasm too. Didn't anyone notice the "as a tribute ;)". Methinks maybe he's poking a wee bit of fun at deadpixel's assertion that there's "No more Mozilla, sniff".
-- jar
Help ... I am having trouble reconciling the Mozilla hype to what I have
experienced so far with Netscape 6 pr 1. I downloaded the Linux binary. So
this is supposed to be the lean, mean, HTML-crunching machine. Posts on
slashdot gush about how fast it renders. Well, it is not lean: according to
top, it starts up at over 20MB and climbs up from there. This is about twice
Netscape 4.72's footprint, and 3-4 times KDE's kfm footprint. It is not fast
either. In fact, it is absolutely the slowest browser I have seen on any
platform apart from Emacs's w3-mode.
This is not some problem inherent in Linux, since the Opera preview (when it
is not crashing) is small and very speedy. And please, enough with the
"debugging information" or "it is beta" excuses. This is supposed to be a
public preview to impress consumers. And it is hard to imagine any kind of
optimization that will give the 300% speedup this browser will need to
be competitive with other browsers, even on Linux.
Am I missing a "--run-this-fast" switch or something? Is this sluggishness
limited to the Linux version? I am running this on a P166 64MB.
Chris
And when opera has a decent linux version, i will give them serious consideration. I realize you were trolling but I wanted to say something anyway =)
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Argh when are the problems with the gui going to be fixed? any time i try to put in a URL the entire thing turns to shit and i cannot even see what i'm typing. i'm sticking to netscape 4.08 till this works... (i'm on slack7 with kde)
i pretty much like netscape6. it`s unfortunate that the ui looks like a bad cartoon. this is not something i want to stare at for 12 hours a day.
i don`t have a tv. got to do something with my time.
Replying to my own post here, sorry.
I just tried to D/L securecrt (www.vandyke.com).. all it ends up doing is downloading what looks like the HTML template file which it thinks is the EXE.. other versions of NS and IE handled this download fine.. anyone else experiencing troubles downloading self-extracting files?
BilldaCat
The only noticable changes I've seen are more and more netscape advertising, heh. No, I dont need a shopping icon. Its almost as bad as the i-openers pizza key
You install it, that's it, you are screwed. You don't have an option to un-install it!
Start the NS6, after half an hour it comes up! No indication of what is happening at all...
The mozilla builds are better, you put it in a directory, new version comes, remove your old directory and put in the new one.
This Netscape 6 made me lose all my respect for Netscape. I think I would be better off using the nightly builds. It even screwed up the profiles, can't use proxy, which now my nightly build is not able to use.
This release is a bad PR for Netscape, as previously only developpers saw Mozilla and they knew what to expect. This release out there for every layman to use, and once they try it they will never plan to return to Netescape 6 crap anymore!
(Sorry for the crude RANT, I am myself a nightly builds tester and bug reporter for Mozilla, but this install stuff left a bad feeling in me, I have to spit it out...:((
-Sas
From my understanding, the Solaris port wasn't -- it was "move lots of Win32 API's over and run IE slow and buggy on top of those".
If I am wrong, I am sorry.
Rombuu, that's like saying we shouldn't do any work fixing the Linux kernel because Red Hat, VA Linux, etc. have LOTS of money. Let them do all the hard work! After all, they are making all the money, and money's the only thing we care about here! Not having a quality product, or showing the strength of Open Source development.
It's ironic -- for a year+, people jumped up and yelled and screamed at Netscape, saying this browser was a failure for the Open Source world. Why? Because the vast majority of developers, in the early days, were paid Netscape developers. People Netscape paid to build something for the Open Source community. In the same way that Alan Cox is paid by Red Hat to do Linux dev.
And now, Rombuu, you're complaining because they asked for help from the community? What's this all about, man? Open Source without a community supporting it is useless!
Again -- Choose Custom. Download only the browser. Simple.
It's all plug-in-like pieces from there.
Sounds like you have a situation. I've been using it since M13 on my machine -- in fact, I usually install the nightly builds about every other day. I'm NT4, SP5.
Currently, I'm running NS 4.72, Mozilla Nightly Build from 4/3/00, and the Preview release. No crashes such as you report.
Go to http://bugzilla.mozilla.org, register there, and report the problem, PLEASE. It's your way of letting them know what's wrong, so they can fix it NOW.
Still faster than Netscape on solaris. :)
Fair 'enuff. You have the right of this issue.
Two points, teraflop:
1) Half of what he speaks of (IM, channels, Net2Phone, etc.) are not even IN the Linux download, from what I understand. But, yes, the mail/news intergration and so on are.
2) Again -- go to http://bugzilla.mozilla.org, and report it as a feature request. Let the developers know that you need the ability to use it just as an HTML browser on Linux, and I suspect you'll get somewhere.
It's not bloated if you want! :)
Choose Custom install. You can choose to install anything from just the browser to the whole shebang. It's good to see that, esp. since it was nigh-impossible to turn off in the 4.x series...
One of the nice things about the small "kick-off" program is that you can choose to install just what you want w/o having to download it at all. I'm not really a fan of these types of programs, personally, but I have to admit that feature comes in handy.
Check it out before you crap on it, friend!
Even better....go to http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/. There's a whole tracking system for reporting bugs on the browser, built with Open Source tools!
I've used it myself -- it's not easy easy (like the Talkback for the Windows browsers) but it's complete, and you can not just report, but also track the bug as it gets fixed.
They don't just want you to use it, the developers ENCOURAGE you to reports bugs. That's what the nightly, M-series, and Preview releases are for...to do something proactive about bugs before the final version is out.
Everyone grips about bugs. With Bugzilla, you can DO something about them. Isn't that the Open source way?
Also, it works on MacOS and (more importantly) Linux x86 -- making it a cross-platform solution, something MS has yet to do.
Well, true it's not much different than the Mozilla versions. But it's not here to be different. Why reinvent the wheel they just rode in on?
And, it you do a Custom install (2nd nature for me with any program, after too many years of being burned), you'll see it comes with Flash!
I, for one, DON'T want to see a lot of branding. And I doubt you'll get much. Netscape/AOL itself is depending on selling Customing kits to Big Business, letting them do their own "branding"...
I did download the 16Mb file from the netscape servers and when I run it, it still needs to connect to the FTP server and retrieve files.
Am I missing something here?
My company currently uses Netscape 4.5 w/ Enterprise Calendaring as standard. I notice that all the "buttons" in NS6 take you to Netscapes Web Calendar. Is there a way to customize these to launch the nscal program? In particular that [1|2] icon next to the addressbook on the bottom left.
Also, I'd like to customize those other menus at the bottoms (Channels/Tools/Business/Free Time/Shopping). Anyone know if this is possible?
"More organs means more human." - Zim
- click on link - browser dies
- submit form - browser dies
- visit frames site - browser dies
- visit java site - browser dies
Fuck - it's a sign 'o the times when a Microsoft product (if you think it's part of the OS, you ain't run it on Mac or Solaris) performs better than *partially* free software.....Now, let's go check out Chromezone....
--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III / NIC Handle: EMC3
Got Spam? http://spam.gunters.org/
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III
geek ramblings
If you hoped Netscape would encapsulate Gecko in it's traditional Motif (or other "native") window, you will be just as disappointed as me to find that Netscape 6 RC1 uses exactly the same, slow, buggy GUI that the Mozilla nightly builds do. In fact, Netscape 6 RC1 reminds me of a randomly chosen nightly Mozilla build in all aspects, except for the N-icon: It eats lots of memory, hangs the X server for no apparent reason, gives lots of annoying messages in the console window, and bugs when I try to save some of my preferences.
Netscape is making a fool of themselves again. Sending out immature bloat/bug-ware as "release candidates" just because "the timing is right",
is not the way to win the (second?) browser war.
How am I supposed to ./configure&&make that?
Then again, I think our best bet is to continue using plain mozilla anyway, in the long run. However, don't assume that I can magically pull a Linux/PPC version of Netscape 6 out of my ass. I can't. Only Netscape can do that. ^_^
-zack
Even better....go to http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/. There's a whole tracking system for reporting bugs on the browser, built with Open Source tools!
Yes, please, spend your valuable time doing free QA work for one of the largest companies in the world. After all, heaven knows they can't afford to hire their own QA people.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
> (Posted with 2000032909)
= 33952">33952</A>) or doesn't segfault on any action whatsoever (bug <A HREF="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id= 34528"34528</A>)??? That's impressive.
Wow - you actually have one of the recent nightlies that registers clicks (bug <A HREF="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id
Have you ever seen Netscape 4.7x using 185MB of memory? I did. Yesterday.
But you're right, there is still something wrong with Seamonkey, it eats 100% (or tries to) of CPU sometimes.
10+ MB? Oh yeah, that's tiny.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
It might not be publically availiable,
but since the days of Navigator 1.0, I have allways been using ftp21.netscape.com and it still works fine.
Anyone know where i can download a full package? Or does the *cough* Smart download have a proxy setting?
Did anyone read the press release? In particular, the bits about AOL pushing net appliances based on Gecko and Linux?
Seems to me that, even within AOL, Mozilla has a lot broader life than just Netscape.
And really, if they're using it for AOL Anywhere, it seems a good bet that they're going to be ditching IE for mainstream AOL -- something that hasn't been at all clear to date.
maybe you had the special "commercials" (notice the s) version before I did, but I didn't ever notice an ad downloading a file, until AFTER AOL bought Netscape, the very next version to be precise.
--
+&x
The feedback form just returns "internal server error"! Maybe it's overloaded :-(
Anyway the problem I was trying to relate was:
For duplicate folder names within the bookmark
hierarchy, they're displayed incorrectly from the
bookmark menu.
When the folders were selected, multiple duplicate
folder entries were displayed for one of the
duplicated folder names.
gives you the save, pick app, cancel box.
choose pick and it lets you pick app is not available, once again reminding us this is not gold yet. Good start though.
Well, I wouldn't say that it runs... more like it walks... SLOWLY... after you kick it hard enough...
:o) from the command line allows you to bypass this.
The first thing I noticed about the Linux version is that you can't download or install only what you need - you have to install (and spend time downloading) the whole damn thing...
Second, it hangs when you view the default home page!(?) - giving it a URL (like slashdot.org
After you actually get it to go, first thing you notice is that it's S-L-O-W... takes about twice as long as 4.5 to load. Page rendering seemed faster on simple sites (such as wired.com) but slashdot took considerably longer to render than 4.5.
I'm using it to write this, and it's painfully slow... at 65wpm, my fingers outrun the text widget (as in I type a paragraph, then watch the screen as the browser finishes putting it onto the screen.)
I realize it's a beta product, but I was hoping it would at least be usable...
Here's one:
IT DOESN'T
At least not for me.
Downloaded the file, installed it (it dloads up to 11MB during installation) and when I try to run it - nothing! the little "Netscape6 Loading" window pops up, then goes away - that's it.
I tried running it from a command prompt, just to see if it spits any error messages - nope! You'd think that a beta version of something would at least give you some hint as to why it fails...
All in all, I'm pretty disappointed. Time to go look around the site to give them some feedback...
I did.
/usr/lib, and according to dpkg:
/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
No problems, albeit a little slow on my 486. I have this lib you mention in
$ dpkg -S libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1:
So apt-get install libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1!
Succes,
Sendy
GNU guru and mainframe hacker
Interesting to see that there is a Linux version, but none (yet) for Solaris.. which sucks since that's what I have at work.
Oh well, at least I can run the Linux one at home.
Luckily, the Linux-Version does not have this hardcoded slashdot-effect. You can download the whole thing in one big chunk.
But then, the whole Windows-version with it's 16 MByte file and the whole dir-structure is on the mirrors as well. Has anybody downloaded it and run seperately? Maybe you can get it to work without the (not so) smart-downloader?
I'll try this at home, after I installed the linux-version.
--- If OS were buildings, then the first woodpecker to come around would erase 95 % of civilization.
Why don't people realise what BETA means?
I do know what it means. I've used lots of beta software, including web browsers. I even mention in the post that a lot of the sluggishness is probably due to debug code.
But Mozilla/NT isn't good enough at this point to call it beta. (Haven't tried it on my Linux server, but that's a building away and I don't have X installed.) For example, I've used a half-dozen different beta versions of the web broswer iCab. Every one is faster, prettier and less buggy than Mozilla.
10 seconds of 100% CPU use on a K6/2-300 to open the security manager? 5 seconds to just close a window? Graphical glitches at the level of misdrawn text dialogs on the very first thing a Mozilla user sees? Missing seriously useful features available on MSIE?
./ posters love to point out how MS does nothing but ship buggy beta-quality code while open-source generates fast, stable apps. If MSIE5 is beta-quality, I'm not sure what to call Mozilla.
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
One thing about Netscape, however, is all the proprietary, royalty laden stuff they put in that mozilla simply can't put in. That is why Netscape will be released. Many people want basic third-party extensions to netscape that mozilla, by nature, cannot include..
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The installer does sort of stink, but the mac installer actually allowed me to choose what I wanted to install. I unchecked the composer, messenger, aim, and something else.
Just the browser is install now. Appears to be about a 6 MB download.
Does the windoze or Linux installer give this option of what to install?
I can't believe this is +3.
Hands in my pocket
I can't believe that the typical installation does not include JAVA. The average user is not going to go and download Suns plug-in. That was a dumb move. Well I guess a Microsoft Monopoly is not so bad or maybe in the browser war it was the best thing to have happen... Netscape without Java well guess I am going to be using IE from now on.
I was able to get it up and running on RedHat 6.2. But then again, that has all the latest and greatest libraries. I am behind a firewall that has an automated proxy, and although I set the setting to "auto:" and gave the same proxy that I did for N4.7, it doesn't get anything beyond our firewall. I have an internal web server that it displays fine, but I can't go beyond the firewall.
The debug message shows:
FindShortcut: in='http://www.netscape.com' out='null'
Document http://www.netscape.com loaded successfully
Document: Done (0.375 secs)
But it doesn't show anything in the window, and the window doesn't redraw if I place something over it.
I looked up how to send this in and saw this in their FAQ But unfortunately, the only way it seems to report something is if you can get outside the firewall. Nice catch 22!
Is there another "official" way to report feedback, or bugs to Netscape?
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
Is there another "official" way to report feedback, or bugs to Netscape?
Ok After I posted, it occurred to me, that all I need to do is cut the path from the Netscape 6.0 feedback to my Netscape 4.7 window. But that didn't work quite right since it seems that selecting the url form Netscape 6.0 doesn't get copied into the X clipboard. But I was able to use the debug messages that spilled out to the screen. God forbid if I had to actually type it
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
why does netscape have to add in the other junk when one don't want the stupid junk as the AIM and such.. I think the user should be able to disable it from it or they can have AIM as a seperate thing.. netscape acts like M$ adding bloateware...
This sort of thing is why some of us click on "Custom..." which lets us "customize" our installation.
------
If a tree falls on an anonymous coward yelling 'first post' in the forest, does anybody hear?
But you've got a point; they should make the first non-beta release have NN4 appearance as the default skin.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I made some icons for Mozilla if you want some. The old ones are at http://www.mozillazine.org/chrome/icon s.html. Newer ones can be found at http://au.4mg.com/moz.htm.
It's too buggy for me right now. It crashed while I was manipulating bookmarks, twice! I'll wait for a better release. Anyone know how to UN-install it? Netscape sure doesn't say how...
I just clicked the "I am under 13" link. It bypasses all the nice datamining questions and you don't get harrassed to sign up for netcenter. Who really uses "portals" anyway?
Best new white rapper since Pimp Daddy Welfare... Pimp-T!
But this method wasn't available until now. Communicator 4.7 doesn't support it.
Setup seems to use the proxy you've configured in your old Netscape. That did it for my system. Good luck.
I don't know if it's faster, but it's stablier for me, and they've fixed some bugs (like that zdnet.com and ign64.com both render correctly now) that M14 had.
dood, what r u doing with a 28.8 if you had enough $$ to spring for the burner?
Actually the menu says Ctrl+...but none of them combinations seem to work.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Get the Sullivan theme from mozillazine's chrome zone or alphanumeric. It makes the browser much more tolerable (although some menus/menu items do nothing).
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
follow the instructions at chromezone or at alphanumeric
mozilla.exe/netscp6.exe -chrome chrome://sullivan/content
(looks like the latest nightly build doesn't work with this chrome...don't know why)
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Where does one get this wonderous peice of software? I looked on Download.com with no luck
When I started up N6, it went through this whole routine told me that I would have to change my easy to remember name to something abstract and bizarre to satisfy its corporate renaming requirements.
I had the same problem, but once I got it installed it allowed me to log on using my
original username and password (no hideous #'s) without any fuss or bother.
Did ya try your old password since you've installed it?
- "When I say dance, you'd best DANCE motherf*cker!" -Violent Femmes
I've not experienced any of the slow down you seem to be mentioning.
I'm on a PII 300, 96MB RAM and win98 (first release)
-Adam
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
just tried netscape 6 on my win98 box. it wasn't immediately obvious how its controls work. they don't resemble win98, mac, X, or even previous versions of netscape.
i would need either a manual or lots of free time to learn how to use this app. and i'm a programmer by trade. so i give up.
i understand the political edge to the netscape saga. mozilla is free software, after all. but netscape is not really free. so i don't feel too guilty.
unless there's some "killer" feature i can't
get anywhere else (unlikely), i doubt i'll be
using netscape 6 ever again.
no sense in my recommending netscape 6 to friends
and family, as they would come to depend on me for help with an app i don't plan to learn myself. and that's minus one unpaid techie for netscape.
don't know about others, but i just can't deal with "wacky" interfaces in productivity apps. recent versions of "office" skirt the line enough that i tend to avoid them when doing serious work.
i don't need interfaces to look like real objects. i don't need truecolor buttons to glow or make noises at me. no talking paperclips, please. what i need is to accomplish work quickly. give me features that increase my ability to get stuff done.
What's more, HotJava doesn't actually support anything. It runs just as quickly and just is just as incapable as IE 2.0 .
The Windows version has no uninstall. Also, I can't get rid of that annoying side bar like I can with Mozilla.
Well...Yes, it can be a lot of trouble. Remember that Netscape has to support the browsers they release. To release on another chipset requires testing and validation just like they do on the x86 chipset. Maybe if enough people email to complain they'll see it's worth the effort.
I read really much posts of this news. But I'am starting to wonder if something is wrong....
I read plenty of stuff about the win32 or mac version...???
But I (with a meterd slow modem connection) want to know about the Linux version???
Is it worth the download??
What about it's memory/CPU cycles needs?
What about rendering big tabels (aka slashdot)?
Thanks
Michael
Didn't they get enough complaints with prior releases?
IE's not that good for low-end machines either, truth be told. Have you given Opera a try recently? My god, that browser (er, *this* browser, considering as how I'm posting from it) is sweet.
--
"HORSE."
"HORSE."
-Flaming Carrot
Is that IE5 on windows has tab-completion for its URLS, while any version on Netscape on *NIX hasn't.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Is anybody else pissed off about having to create a username and password when first launching Netscape 6? It really annoyed ME..
I had to spend close to 10 minutes trying to find an unused username, just so I can use the software? Please. Netscape, let's not try to merge your stupid website with your browser. If I want to have a login to your site, I'll go there ON MY OWN TIME, and get one. I shouldn't be forced into it, especially when I first install your software.
,-----.----...---..--..-....-
' CitizenC
' WebMaster, PlanetQ3F
`-----.----...---..--..-....-
i'm curious... is there any way to turn the skins off entirely and just use straight gtk?
i found an option in the preferences that makes the scrollbars go back to gtk, but that's it...
thanks.
--
eh.
Like really... I'm sure lots of people jump on the handle "operagost" the moment they can. I had to stick a number on the end to get IM to take it. Obviously, they just want that number there or something. Why not say that, instead of lying "that name is already taken"?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The installer just downloads all the components, installs, then deletes the source files. I suppose if you're quick you can copy them elsewhere, but then you are still stuck with the options you selected before the download. This is unacceptable in a corporate environment!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I agree, the pages pop up real quick on Linux, but There is a 1-2 second delay when I try and click on the check boxes. Not even going to comment on how ugly the default skin is(OK, guess I just did :) ). I wonder how many people are like me, and hate app level skins... I think it just looks tacky. Looking at my desktop right now I have motif, qt, and gtk apps that look subtly different, then an mp3 player with beats no resemblence to anything. Yet those are all attractive. Now there is a big blue web browser... and I can't get it to load any other skins. Too bad I dont see this trend changing any time soon,
treke
Some of the previous mozilla milestones had a feature where Google searches would show up in the search results area of the sidebar so that you could see the first 20 or however many matches. They also had the ability to add many search engines(including Google) to be searchable from the same area. I found this extremely convienent. Now there are only 9 most of which don't seem useful at all. Does anyone know why they removed this feature?
A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.
Hmmm, Im using 44MB under WinNT4. I seriously hope this version is not optimized!
And I thought NT was a memory hog! I sure am glad that I have 224MB of RAM.
First post from N6!
Later...
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
For the record, and AOL Has mentioned it several times (Steve Case, as well as other execs):
While AOL Owns Netscape, they will not ship Netscape with AOL As long as their bundling deal with Microsoft stands.
Basically the deal MS and AOL have is that as long as AOL packages IE as the default browser with AOL, Windows installation will place a nice little AOL icon on the user's desktop - this is viral marketing and supposedly has worked very well for AOL - they aren't about to lose this ?wonderful? source of new business.
I don't think that AOL questioning Netscape's stability and product quality has any play here.
-Brendan
It's stabler than M14, runs ok on my PII350 win2k box at work, slow on my Celeron 300 linux box at home.
it doesn't render <img align="left"> tags in the same way as NS4 or IE whatever (same with M14). Instead of text flowing around the image it appears below.
:hover styles now work which saves the drugery of image swapping.
Shows a lot of promise I think. An earlier poster said M15 is due out in a week, it'll be interesting to see how that compares...
Burgatronics
Do Not Read Burgatronics... It's Evil
Isn't the key question whether AOL, in the future, standardizes on Netscape/Mozilla for its users?
If AOL users all use Netscape, then IE can't be
considered the sole "standard" and web sites
might actually have to adhere to *real* open standards.
Or more precisely, Netscape 6 and NOT LDAP... FYI - For those of you who use Netscape in an environment that provides LDAP Directory Services, it would seem that ANY LDAP support is not included in this release... which is a bummer. I miss my autocompletion from 4.72!
This mirrors the current functionality-wishlist I have for Mozilla as well.. (at least as of M14...)
Also, as for email comments: Lots of new features, included the LONG desired ability to have multiple FROM addresses! No longer will I get bounces back from ListServers because I replied/sent mail from the wrong 'profile'!
The 'messenger start page' is configurable through the UI... you no longer have to edit the PREFS.JS file! (you can also specify your OWN URL through the UI...
Things to watch out for... mail will (optionally) display the Graphical Emoticons if you want, and it will 'auto format' certain text strings for HTML! Beware of 'auto editing applications'...
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
the about: redirection just doesnt work yet. Load the HTML document by typing this into the URL bar: chrome://global/content/mozilla.html
wah wah wah.
if you actually want to find out how standards compliant Netscape 6 or IE5 are, WRITE SOME TESTS. Or, run some of the ones that exist (independent tests have been created by people like David Baron and Ian Hickson). See for yourself. If Mozilla fails, file a bug. It will be fixed.
If you're not willing to do even that, then shut up and take what you're given. That's the Microsoft model.
and in fact if you look at the user agent...
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1
(for me)
There seems to be a lot of misapprehension as to what a skin is exactly. Hopefully this will clear up when skin switching UI is exposed shortly and people can start making skins.
/packages/ like Aphrodite look like appearance upgrades to Mozilla/Netscape 6, but the distinction is very important.
;)
Currently MozillaZine's ChromeZone offers only packages for download and installation. A package is different to a skin - (well, its a superset of content, locale and skin) Content is window layout (dialog structure, javascript glue, etc); locale is localisable text strings; and skin is visual formatting.
Because a package contains content - and because content (when installed into the chrome folder) has access to XPConnect (and therefore has access to your file system, preferences, etc) a package is like any other piece of software you install - you have to explicitly trust it. A skin on the other hand is simply CSS and images - formatting and graphical presentation that does not present the same security risks. Our goal is to present two different interaction models for installation of these things.
Skins will have a streamlined installation similar to the add sidebar panel process - a site puts a link or button to a skin, user clicks, a dialog appears asking if the user wants to download and (optionally) apply the skin immediately.
Package installation however will be more complex and will contain scary warnings similar to Java permission requests and ActiveX warnings currently used in Navigator and IE.
When you install a package you are trusting the author's code not to screw up your machine. The difference to many may be slight - especially when
As soon as installers/downloaders for this content becomes available, this distinction will be clear to end users.
Currently, the process of installing a new package is so involved (copying folders into the chrome folder, loading Mozilla/Netscape with command line parameters) that trust is expected. When things can happen in a couple of clicks, expect our UI to make more noise about it
For more information, please don't hesitate to contact me, I'm ben@netscape.com.
Thanks,
Ben Goodger
UI lead, mozilla.org
note that editor is required because mozilla text fields are actually based on editor.
eventually, web developers will be able to insert an or similar into webpages, to allow for formatted text to be submitted via forms etc.
Potentially very useful for webmail, etc.
have you tried it? have you tried to use actual W3C DOM/CSS instead of proprietary IE crap?
what is it you want to do?
the answer is to drop DHTML support for proprietary object models. Write one standards compliant script for IE5/N6. Degrade gracefully and display regular content for users of older browsers (which is what had to happen when the 4.x browsers came out and designers had to accomodate for 3.x browser users)
where is roaming?
I'll stick to 4.7 till roaming is working.
also shift click doesn't work
doesn't stop
middle mouse button doesn't open a new window?
other then it still has a few bugs to work out, it seems like a pretty good browser
My ownly comments on NS6 is oh my god!
What happened to being able to size buttons? I like my desktop... not huge buttons. Even at 1024 x 768(hey its my work machine tiny 17") they are huge I'd hate to see them at 800 600...
Could they find any more places to add buttons and gizmos too? It reminds me of a very bad imitation swiss army knife, where all the gadgets can't come out at once because they overlap.
No offense to mozilla, but this is bloatware added ontop of it. Please tell me, that the release version will allow you to have small buttons and no aol crap... The sidebar is nasty IMO it takes up even more screen width. Thankfully it can be shrunk down. This is Netscape for the mass market? I'll go back to IE 5.0 even if it is not GNU.. who knows maybe the Judge will order it to be...
Download Mozilla M14 and set up the proxy support in it. Then when you run the Netscape 6 installer, it picks up the proxy info from M14 and works just fine.
I don't know about the best software ever, but this thing is freakin' QUICK. I'm browsing slashdot in both Netscape 6 and IE 5. Netscape is running CIRLCLES around IE.
My question is, what happened to 5? Did Netscape forget how to count or are they trying to "Outversion" IE?
Either way, I'm not sure about the stability yet, but the speed is certainly greater than anything else out there at the moment.
--Jaybill
Well, no wonder netscape 6 runs slowly. That's barely tenth of enough RAM to run today's browsers.
--
The shareholder is always right.
The biggest complaint I have is that I needed to sign up for the Netcenter. (I'm sure I didn't really need to sign up for it. But that was the impression that I got.) I don't need another free email site.
- "Yeah man, I tell ya what, man...That dang ol' Internet, man...You just go one there and point and click...Talk about
"I'd report the crashing problems, but I can't think of anything to say other than that no matter what I do, it crashes upon trying to load a new page. How helpful is that?"
Very. Look to the bottom of the chrome. You should see a build ID (mine's 2000022820 (M14)). Send that and your exact machine configuration (i.e. NT 4.0 build 1381 SP4.01 SR1, or whatever).
Maybe there's something that Mozilla (Sorry, can't call it Netscape) needs that doesn't work quite right for a particular coinfiguration. Whatever the case, they need to know.
Also, so long as you can reproduce the problem consistantly, it's a bug.
(Posted with M14)
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
"Take a look at Dynamic Drive and see how many of the DHTML scripts you can get to run."
Hell, I can't get *any* of them to run in Communicator 4.72. And I do DHTML on Netscape for a living.
Would you happen to know why that is?
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
"Many of my old Java applets don't display correctly. This might just be my bad programming, but given my horrible memories of trying to get applets to function under Netscape/Mac I'm a bit worried."
;-)
FWIW, Mozilla (I'll still call it that, and Netscape be damned) renderd java.sun.com just fine. Maybe it is bad programming; I don't know how well you code.
I figure if it renders the java that the java folks write, it must be doing something right
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
Sorry to everyone, I guess I was misinformed.
Mozilla is not ending.......My bad........Shoulda just said netscape 6 was out.
Go mozilla go....
Lata,
deaDpixeL
All that begins in anger ends in shame.- Ben Franklin
This can not be a finished product! Not only is it painfully buggy but it seems incomplete. The activation program is full of it! It is so full of bugs it makes MS Win 63k look good. and why do I have to have a screen name to get into netscape? and who the hell said that netscape could have a buddy list in it.. eww! I don't want that god damn side bar.. if this is a finished product then we have a problem.. serious bugs.. I AM DISAPPOINTED.. although the some of the DHTML and style features that never used to work now do.!
Movie News - "Entertainment news, bitch!"
1. On IE 5 I can hit ctrl-home to take me to the top of the page ang ctrl-end to take me to the bottom of the page. This is extremely convenient because it also puts my right hand near the page up,down and arrow keys. This allows me to scroll up and down the page at what ever speed I please. Netscape does not make use of ctrl-home or ctrl-end. It should.
2. The Bookmark manager doesn't seem to work correctly(yes, I know this is a beta but I'm just listing things that should be fixed).
3. If I hit the back button, I'm taken to the top of the previous page, not to the point where I had left it. This is a real inconvienience and should be fixed.
4. The theme is ugly. Hopefully there will be skins to fix this.
5. It seems to treat p and br html tags opposite to what I would expect. I haven't researched this completely, but on my web page it simply broke the line where I used a p tag and it broke the line and added a return where I used a br tag. This was opposite of the way IE 5 handled it. (Now that I've previewed my post the p tags seem to work properly. My page uses a style sheet, maybe this has something to do with it)
That's about all I've seen so far.
Check out AbiWord.
Just a minor note:
:(
I chose not to install the Java stuff (figured this ain't the final, why waste the download time....). The foot print shrunk down to a "lite" 20 megs... Ick
It actually fluxuated between 15-25 megs, regardless of what I was doing (seemed kinda random).
I want to get rid of "My Sidebar;" it's taking up valuable screen real-estate with blighted tabs labeled "CNN.com," "Buddy List," "What's Related," etc. But I can't get rid of it.
When I mouse over a link, I want to see the URL behind that link appear in the status bar at the bottom of the screen, so I can be better informed about where it'll go if I click. But that doesn't happen, and I can't figure out how to get that functionality back.
Am I missing something, or is there no uninstall? No entry in the Add/Remove programs, either...(On NT4, btw).
Boy, from the rest of these posts I'm assuming it's just me, but slashdot.org has tiny tiny fonts, and most other pages (like yahoo.com, or my own geeklife.com) crash the browser.
Any other NT4 users out there successfully using this? Any one who has Netscape3 and 4.7 installed having any problems?
Ah, there is a simplified bug reporting page:
http://www.mozilla.org/quality/he lp/bug-form.html
That's extremely useful.
Ok, both bugs reported. Thanks for the encouragement.
(I wish I could post with M14)
Shew, that's a lot of stuff to go through...especially when I don't have any idea what 80% of it is talking about. They need some sort of simplified newbie begin-bug-reporting wizard thing.
Anyway, I entered the font size one, though I can't imagine it could be too helpful (who knows which tiny variation in my machine is causing it to occur?).
I'd report the crashing problems, but I can't think of anything to say other than that no matter what I do, it crashes upon trying to load a new page. How helpful is that?
It uses the MainWin libraries for Unix (HP-UX version does this too). I don't see how that invalidates the fact that IE5 running on Slowlaris.
Still faster than Netscape on solaris.
It installs, asks me for the activation thing, I don't want an account with Netcentre or anything, so i press cancel. It asks "Do you want to continue with activation", with two options, OK and Cancel (that should be Yes and No, and the question should be do you want to cancel - dirty trick). Any way, I press Cancel, and it brings me back to the activation page, I press cancel again, and it crashes.
:P).
Trying it a second time, I find out that I'm supposed to wait about 5 seconds without touching the activation page and it'll dissapear. God knows why.
Anyway, I'm less than impressed with Mozilla's ability to get Access Violations (Segmentation Faults for Unix guys), it seemed to do it alot during the Milestone releases here and there too.
Maybe I just have a talent for crashing Netscape.
:|
The rendering engine is really fast though, and so is the load time. (IE5 is still faster tho
Um, IE5 works on Windows, Slowlaris, HP-UX and MacOS.
I don't think that they've taken the time to do code optimizations yet...
- passion
Right off the bat:
Fonts are still broken.
Lotta ram comsumption; it doesn't NEED to leak.
On resize, the contents did not grow/redraw properly. After a restart, it worked ok.
Hmmmmm... It is SO damn pretty.
You guys/gals have come a long way. Thank you!
(This message posted with Netscape 6 Preview 1)
Running it on Mac OS 9.0.4.
;-)
It's definitely faster than Comm 4.7, no question. Faster even than the new IE5 (which is fast but unstable). The new rendering engine definitely kicks ass. On the other hand, the memory usage (right now, Netscape 6b1 is eating thirty megs) is horrible (but will hopefully improve).
My take is that while the Gecko engine is a work of art, the application shell and the horrible XML GUI are not. It's not Mac-like - or Linux-like, or Winsuck-like, or anything. It doesn't adhere to any user interface guidelines at all, and sticks out like a sore thumb on any platform. Yes, there's skinning support... but that won't help the bloat and the nonstandard *feel* (it'll only help the *look*).
Thanks to it being open source, however, maybe someone will take the Gecko engine and stick it in an open-source Cocoa-based Mac OS X Native app. Hmmm... I'm learning Objective-C now...
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
We all know Netscape 4.x sucks, that's the whole point of making Mozilla in the first place. People need to realize they're just preaching to the choir everytime they tell us how much Netscape sucks! We know :)
Indeed. I've just sent myself an email from Netscape Messenger 6, and here is what I got:
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1
And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla!"
And did they do it by not supporting existing standards? NO. And that's what will kill the Moz if they don't re-incorperate backward functionality to IE4 and NS4 in DHTML and the DOM as it is, not as the 'standard' says. ReCode is not he answer for maybe millions of pages that work just fine in the lvl 4 browsers, but turn to trash on the "better browser". I love he Zilla, but this isn't him.
moan , moan , moan moan..
does it ever stop.
This version of netscape is Beta... hence the name.
Mozilla.org hasn't even started on performance enhancements... once this has been done, i'm sure, netscape will render far faster than IE.
Menus are slow... moan, moan... see above.
>The activation script is hideous- lots of >graphical glitches that remind me of student >written X programs.
what do you expect from a beta product, bug free product?
Why don't people realise what BETA means?
I have a fast internet connection at work. I want to spend one minute downloading before I go home, rather than 45 minutes over the phone. And I don't care if it downloads a few things I won't install, as long as it all fits on a Zip disk.
--
Sorry about that... it seemed to happen after I posted it... it looked fine in the textarea box
"Man has always been his own most vexing problem." --Reinhold Niebuhr, "The Nature and Destiny of Man"
Here's a directory containing the full install as a 16 MB Windoze .exe (since I insist on installing it at work): 1 /windows/win32/sea/
1 /windows/win32/sea/Netsc apeSetup.exe
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR
Or more directly:
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR
Enjoy!
"Man has always been his own most vexing problem." --Reinhold Niebuhr, "The Nature and Destiny of Man"
Seeing that RPM has not been mentioned anywhere on this page, does anyone have a linky linky with some i386 or mandrake RPMs? Thanks!
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) - AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
Yeah, I'm totally pissed at Netscape too for trying to change my username. I mean, affecting almost HALF A MILLION USERS and call it a good and convenient thing to do??? Who are these engineers running Webmail??. I signed up the second day Webmail was up and running!! And I don't care if some AOL user has the same username (naju), you can't do this kind of things to people, and email address is not just an address, it's an identity!! So, this is offtopic but is anyone doing something about this??, like a boycottnetscape.org sort of thing. I'd really love to help. I already send an email to Webmail tech support which of course they haven't answered and probably won't. They have, of course, no obligation since the service is free but come on! who was the AOL genius behind this?
"All the things one has forgotten scream for help in dreams". Elias Canetti
This isn't Mozilla, it's Netscape Beta (a pre-release of a commercial product).
patrick
Seriously though, I find it rather annoying that they didn't include a nice Solaris build. Compiling at the site I am on now is just plain agony (because of crappy library installations and a rather slow network). Still, it's only a prerelease, we'll see what they do for the final version.
And yes, I realize that they can't include a build for every friggin' OS/platform on the planet, but I would imagine SPARC still being large enough to consider...
Well, I for one am gonna download Mozilla, GTK+/Be, and hack away with X11R6 on Be until it compiles, and then get it to work without a display. Anybody want to join me?
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
Hear Hear for Mosaic - give me that back! On the side, if you want a fast browser, nothing beats NetPositive. Now when do we get java?
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
- Find a FreeBe mirror. Download BeOS4Linux.tar.gz. Unpack. Make boot disk. Reboot with boot disk.
- Go to www.opera.com, and download Opera for BeOS beta 7.
See, very simple."The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
i agree with you.....
but what i want from AOL/ScmooAOL is a bloody uninstaller.
I downloaded on win98 and loved it! It'll probably replace IE5 for me (IE5 does *strange* things on my box, like periodically forgetting my history). I then downloaded the linux version, hoping performance would be similar. My hopes were in vain. 1) Speed was about 60% of the win98 build. 2) Rendering was *UGLY*. The dynamic html floating netscape was horribly pixelated, and normal text was fairly pixelated as well. Perhaps this is just an issue with my fonts, but netscape 4.72 renders text just fine. And the UI just blows. Granted, the skins feature will solve this (i've seen at least one great skin), but the default skin shouldn't be so bad that it *MUST* be changed. Sigh. It's almost enough to drive a guy to lynx.
I've used pr1 on a mac os8.6 and mac os9 system, and it crashed (repetitavely)(sp?) on both systems while on the splash screen... is there some voodoo I don't know, or is everyone else getting the same thing?
For some reason, I really did not expect to see the Mozilla front end on the commercial Netscape release (even though I knew better, given the integration of and investement in the xpfe). That front end is fine for me, but of the 100M web users, virtually no one will adopt it as it is. I am surprised that they didn't at least do their own skin to provide a more native-looking interface.
There is a huge improvement in functionality over earlier Mozilla releases, but, if they don't adopt native or native-looking widgets for the Windows release, Explorer will bury Communicator.
There is little or no chance that some third party will be able to fork Mozilla, put on a native UI, and market it successfully against IE.
The message to Netscape(AOL): Please fix it quick, even if the entire Mozilla.org team needs to work on the commercial version for a while, and keep balance, standards compliance, and competition in the marketplace.
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR1 /windows/win32/sea/NetscapeSetup.exe
However, I have had repeated crashes and I've been pounding through various sites, usually when I have had mulitple windows open.
Flash does not seem to function well/at all .
Has anyone else run into similar issues???
Bottom line, the interface is great and overall it seems like a real winner....but betas are betas...
rootrot
I'm not done complaining yet though, The sidebar is fairly useful, but I don't think it's really necessary for it to take up a large part of each and every window I open up. I haven't had time to go through all of the options yet, so maybe you can turn that off, but I think a seperate news bar on just the first window is enough, especially when they all show the same thing.
I really appreciate the removal of a fair number of those buttons at the top, I certainly never used most of them.
Anyways, nice work by the people involved, thanks for it all.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Can't they friggin make the backspace key take me back a page already? Microsoft figured it out a while ago; can't these guys, free of the evil that is Bill, get it right, too?!
Netscape mail is free. You get what you pay for, loser.
Best piece of software? Yer kidding, right? Sorry. It's a bit of a stinker...I'll stick with the slight-less-stinky IE5.
It's about *#@($ Time. Great work folks! Hopefully this will be the cure for Netscape 4.x's memory leaks that have me so pissed off.
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
if you're serious and not being sarcastic, you need serious medical attention ASAP.
Remember, mozilla does strive to be standards compliant. While using a percentage in the IMG tag is allowed in the HTML spec there might be a problem when combined with the nasty NestedTableLayoutHack[tm] that we all use for site designs. That's just my guess.
The way to achieve the effect you want (call it work-around if you must) is to tile the image in the tag WITHOUT using percentage; like so:
<td background='/path/to/pic.xxx'><img src='/path/to/pic.xxx' height='num' width='num' ></td>
By including the IMG in the TD tag the width of the TD will (surprise!) conform to the width of IMG
Viewing the HTML source at http://server51.com/ shows an example of this technique.
Yet, when the browser hits the market, it is not. So, we people who write web pages have to find workarounds that end up not being standards compliant. In other words, what is the point in having standards if nobody is going to follow them?
But the workaround_is_ 'standards compliant'. As they say: 'there's more than one way to do it.'
The method you have chosen may work in IE but we all know that MS doesn't conform to proper HTML standards when rendering tables.
Yeah, you're grouchy. And have every right to be.
Me? I'm just pissed that Linux doesn't have a _quality_ HTML editor. A REAL text based editor like Homesite for Windows. Vi and emacs don't cut it because they don't automagically insert height/width tags for IMG (they weren't built to be HTML editors but to be powerful general purpase text editors). Bluefish is getting close but it doesn't compile for me when libungif is installed and it won't get the h/w attributes of gifs w/o it. CoffeeCup has no undo(!). Quanta's make barfs on libpng so I have no idea what it's like. I guess I just suck when it comes to compiling some of these apps.
Linux needs an HTML editor that does multi-line indents, custom code snippets that supports new-line and tab characters, php-perl-js-css syntax highlighting, status bars that show the line number you're on, h/w for IMG tags. We don't need no stinking FTP upload or WYSIWYG previews (can you say 'web browser') or 'project-management'.
If I could code apps worth a damn I would do an HTML IDE for Linux. God knows we deserve one.
Wonderful... Time to do a whole new redesign for Netscape 6. Too problems I've already seen are FORM elements needing extra space in the layout pushing tables and sliced images apart, and background images ride an extra pixel or two higher. The new chrome is bound to confuse endusers too, as it looks nothing like the crome on every other application. Just when the 3.0 browsers were safely dead, it's time for another version to build for... crap! Who has the time and budject for this BS? Did anyone get the ThunkControl32 error? Does this sucker use Zool, or whatever it's called? Oi veh!
More fun:
1)Background images of local documents won't refresh. Nice.
2)The Back button. What happens when I hit a site that uses some JavaScript that refreshes on unload?
3)N6 is running at 32.5MB, IE5 at 12IE5, looking at the same page. Ugly!
Beta? If PCWORLD.com is calling N6 as the rebirth of the browser wars, then in term's of AOL's marketing sceme this is no beta.
I am running Netscape 6 on Mac OS 8.5 with one window of Netscape open. Netscape is currently taking up 32.8 MB of memory and when I scroll down one line at a time it has some trouble refreshing. That's the fun of beta software
--Justin
Well... Yes, the mirror works, and so far everything's cool...
;(
- rest"... Gimme back these nice old 13 MB+ setupfiles that you could download from a more local ftp... *sigh*
But the real horror begins when you run NetscapeSetup.exe... The "smart(???)download"-proggy is fixed to ftp.netscape.com... And the speeds are as presumed...
Oh, god I hate these "download-a-small-setup-proggy-that-downloads-the
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Well, the web link to the ftp site is incredibly slow, but doing a console ftp to the site gets it very quickly. It is very fast so far at rendering slashdot, and no serious bugs to report (unlike the last few night's with mozilla...). I strongly recomend getting it, at least for a test run.
congradulations to the Netscape team on their release, and the Mozilla people who wrote the code (mostly but not entirely the same set of people). Keep up the good work.
Steve
For a small applet, the java 2 virtual machine takes about 20 megs under NT, with a default maximum of 64. I don't think Netscape 6 preloads a java 2 virtual machine, because I would then expect it to take much more than the 26 megs it curently reports on my NT machine. Oh yeah, and IE starts 10 times faster than NS6 (my machine is 128 MB RAM, P2).
For all the flak the "tiny installation" has been getting, it does have a valuable purpose: cutting down on the download time. If you think Instant Messenger or Net2Phone qualifies as bloatware, DON'T DOWNLOAD THEM!
It feels rather liberating, actually.
If you want a full download then use this (16 megs).
Do the usual ftp1, ftp2, etc.
This is for win9X people, obviously. It appears the Linux version is a full download, too (10 megs). Mac people can go to the "sea" directory, too.
I like the new ftp interface, btw. Classy!
Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
Why doesn't Netscape offer an easy link there? Do they honestly think that people with GoZilla or Getright prefer StupidDownload to a real download manager?
Sent from my iPhone
As far as looking up...any more, consulting a centralized (and hence easily updated) database for matching partial URLs is just about necessary, unless you like having people flame because the quick and dirty heuristic of slapping .com on the end and http://www. on the front got them to the (in)famous porn site whitehouse.com instead of whitehouse.gov... As much as I despise the Evil Empire, I can't quite attribute malevolence to them in this one case.
Yow, just checked Win2k's task manager... Netscape 6 was using 39MB of memory after browsing to about 5 web pages and checking my mail. After Restarting it's only using about 25, but that's still about twice Netscape 4.7's consumption on this machine. Still, it looks kinda nifty...
the modern browser has become an integral part of modern networked business.
.oO0Oo.
We can write apps that sit inside the browser without having to worry about distributing installs and updates to our software.
Any changes can be implemented on the company servers transparently to the userbase. This makes it a very powerful tool.
Knowing that an html renderer is almost bound to exist on a particular target machine means I can write documents that will display acceptably without me knowing anything about the client.
A DHTML standard is a *very* welcome addition in this environment. OK M$ and Netscape seem to like to add on their own special "enhancements" but so long as you test it in both you are ok.
Presently I'm authoring a point of sale presentation. I chose HTML for it's portability. I phoned the client and said "which browser" they said IE5 and off I went. I've got a full screen app with plenty of gloss exactly for marketing purposes. It sits on the HD and no-one is going to complain about 500k gifs or CD quality sound.
Before IE4 it would have meant I had to buy something like Powerpoint or Macromedia Director. As it is all I need is vi, gimp to author it with and a vanilla Win98 machine to test it on. I host it on my web server and they can look at it any time they like and offer comments and submit changes daily which speeds up the development because many eyes make lights work.
I'm looking forward to a Standard DHTML DOM because it means I can get more work done in less time and it will look much better.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Well, it's very different, looks nice, perhaps a bit too complex.
But check out this page where you get the download from: they've used a Microsoft HTML editor: spot the tell-tail '?' in "what?s most important"...
Have they finally relented on this issue??
(For those who aren't aware, MS extended the 'latin-1' standard ASCII++ character set to add a new, different single-quote using one of the unassigned characters. It's a defined standard, but only MS browsers used to read it: regardless of whether the special MS char set was announced at the top of the html page. Netscape traditionally showed the '?' in defiance.)
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Dere's a storm a-comin'...
--
I think it should be clear at this point that Netscape is distancing itself, UI-wise, from all other products out there. If they wanted to be IE, they'd be IE. As a long-time Netscape AND IE user, I've had no problems finding the Preferences menu item to configure the browser and its components. Also, I've had no problems with the interface as it is now -- things seem to be logically layed out, and as a Netcenter user as well I find the integration to that to be a solid improvement.
Of course there's always room for improvement, as there was in the older versions of Netscape and in Internet Explorer as well. But this IS a preview release, and as such they /are/ accepting feedback on the product. Click Help>Feedback Center. As I've stated before, people should reserve their final judgements until the final release version, and until then provid constructive criticism as opposed to wanton flaming (not referring to your post, but to others).
As for the end-users, well they have to make their own choices based on what they like to use. There are people I work with who use IE, others who will be sticking to NS 4.7x when 6 is released. I've been using 6 for the last couple of days now, and it's grown on my considerably in that time. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's definitely innovative.
--
Personally, I find it a bold new direction for browsers in general, with an interface which seperates it nicely from older versiona of itself and Internet Explorer. I think it's innovative in a good way, and a very usable, nifty design. At first I was a little taken aback by the design chosen, but after using it for several hours I've grown to like it.
--
As for page rendering, the reason it renders differently than other browsers (even earlier versions of Netscape) is because it renders them properly, according the standards. If a document doens't render properly it's probably because that document used some browser-specific code syntax, tag, or property.
I'm not saying it's absolutely PERFECT, but I do find it to be an innovative step in design of a web browser. I'd say wait for the actual release versions before passing final judgement on how it works.
--
Why rely on a crooked browser to stop itself from prostituting your personal information? Fire up that sniffer, find where its sending it, and block it from your firewall script. Done. I deny the spurious packets sent to Netscape, I used to deny and log but my logs grew faster than britney spears' bust.
Lars -
If I had a network card that wasn't supported in linux, I could:
a) Install Windows
b) Get a network card that is supported
c) Read the documentation and find out that it really is supported.
http://www.smc.co m/smc/drivers/Legacy/8216/smc-ultra.c-1.2.13.txt
Yes, that says 1.2.13, you can find it in your 2.2.14 kernel as CONFIG_ULTRA in the 10/100 Ethernet card section for SMC cards.
I can't help with your opinion of Netscape however.
Lars -
OH MY GOD You MUST be KIDDING! IE does not run faster than netscape on solaris! IE chokes on solaris, it even changes your mouse pointer in solaris to a windows pointer and hourglass when it is hovering over top of the ie window. IE may be an ok browser for win platforms but NOT UNIX!
I'm guessing that part of it is the Java
It most likely is Java. Under NT, Java maps large chunks of memory, even when it has no need for it. The actual memory usage is much lower than the reported memory usage because of this. I know of a few Java apps that implement a native Win32 call to unmap this memory and let the JVM page-fault it back in as needed, thereby greatly reducing the reported footprint.
"I shoulda never sent a penguin out to do a daemon's work."
Cat, the other, tastier white meat.
The Netscape ftp servers appear to have died... I have mirrored the it on my server: ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/netscape/
I'm running Mac OS 8.6 on a grap iMac. And N6 didn't work. I mean, it DIDN'T WORK at all. It would launch and all, but if I tried to view a webpage (such as slashdot, netscape.com, or my own web page) it wouldn't work. A tiny piece of the html would be downloaded and sometimes partially rendered but never a whole page. not even close.
Plus pressing command-Q to quit the program didn't work. Hmmm.
Plus you couldn't change any preferences because the "Okay" button didn't do anything when pressed.
Plus most of the chrome and controls left pixel crumbs all over the place.
So I'm sorry to be a dissenting opinion, but shouldn't the web browser do something like, oh I don't know, RENDER HTML PAGES? Shouldn't that be a minimum standard of a web browser?
-m
MyopicProwls
My homepage
that when I try to use the feedback center from the help menu, the submission form fails! All I wanted to do was be a good tester and send in some bugs that I've noticed, such as NS6 importing all my IE5 bookmarks but not my NS4 bookmarks...
All in all, I think once the bugs get worked out, this will be a very nice browser, but right now...it's got some problems.
And why didn't I post all of these complains on their feedback page? Because it don't even work!
-Shippy
The plug-and-plug approach is going to irritate users, while developers will probably continue having to endure the awful object model, layers (feh!) and so on.
Meanwhile, Microsoft's latest release, IE 5 for the Mac, is elegant, works very well, and has some new features that are actually useful (the Scrapbook, for instance).
It doesn't look good. It's also disappointing that this is going to be a first look at an open source product for so many people.
its gone. the only reason it still lives on my hdd is that i _had_ to fire up opera and try to wash the stink from myself. that, and i wanna take it apart first :) did anyone else feel like they had just walked out onto the strip when they fired this piece up? maker
itbwtcl
I am currently mirroring it at http://snafu.de/~kl/netscape6/. I hope you will be able to fetch it w/o problems! This is only the Linux version! Bye, Kaspar
If this is too much effort, it won't be long before someone produces a tiny Mozilla distro much like others have done with Linux.
You're either (1) running Mozilla M14 or (2) Have transparent proxies. It doesn't work with Communicator 4 or non-transparent proxies.
Rest assured, that there will be binary versions for ALL unices - Sun, SGI, SCO, *BSD, etc..
:)
Those guys at Netscape got those machines you know
How about non-Intel Linux versions?
Netscape for Sparc-based Linux has been stalled at 4.51 for a long time, and you won't find any non-Intel Linux versions on the Netscape FTP sites. I would dearly love to see a "Linux isn't just x86" campaign to get this message through to companies who insist on calling x86-only Linux products "Linux" versions instead of "Linux (x86)", and ignoring Sparcs, Alphas, PPCs etc.
Thankfully Mozilla does have builds for non-Intel Linux, so there is some hope for Netscape...
do any mirrors carry it yet? I'm having a hard time fetching it from the FTP server at Netscape.
-Bjørn
this thing is broken beyond belief
My main gripe, I guess, its lack of support for DHTML. Layer support is one thing, but being able to do something with them is always nice. Take a look at Dynamic Drive and see how many of the DHTML scripts you can get to run.
If you get more than one, I'll be amazed.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
I don't know if I'm the only one annoyed by this, but this is one of the things I _HATE_ about netscape the most. When I'm surfing through slashdot articles, and one of them has a link I want to check out, I click on it. Then when I click back after I have checked out the link, it loads up the WHOLE FRIGGING PAGE OVER (150+ K, ie another 15 seconds) and then it starts at the top of the page, forcing me to scroll down to where I started again.
This is one of the most ANNOYING "features" netscape has, and I just love when in IE I can just press back and it will take me back to the exact same spot on the page, and it wont reload the page. There needs to be an option for this.
-- We should kill all the intolerant people in the world.
So nobody should want these features? I'm looking forward to reading my mail with Mozilla.
I hate the preset links too. So do you know what I do? I delete them. It's not hard.
---
Zardoz has spoken!
Oper on the Nightstar
I'm sure that M14 is faster than NS6pv1 anyone else found things that way, is it down to additional crap conde added by netscape separately from the mozilla team >? or do you think I am dreaming it???
-no pop, no style.-
-Elendale (paranoid)
IANAT (I Am Not A Troll)
opera costs MONEY
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
You have got to be kidding. If your browser doesn't read ColdFusion pages, there's probably something wrong with the ColdFusion code or the server, not the client. I'm looking at my own ColdFusion pages with Opera right now.
Mozilla (or Netscapes version - Nestcape 6) is important because it's goal is to follow standards rather than setting own standards. I'd personaly really like to have a browser that handles CSS they way it should be done.. (NS4 doesn't either!..)
Have you ever used MSIE on anything else than WinXX?!.. Apparently not!.. Please give it a go under Solaris!.. Afterwards take two (or five) pills and call your shrink in the morning...
Conclusion: MSIE runs smoothly on WinXX (partialy because webprogramers design the pages to fit different browsers), BUT Anyone not runing WinXX should use NS for his own sake...
Thank you for your attention
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." -Goethe
"Pick an A.C. sailor!.. We're cheaper than Karma Wh*res!" - A.C.
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
Thank you for your attention.
PS Posted using NS6 for Mac ... :)
DS
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." -Goethe
"Pick an A.C. sailor!.. We're cheaper than Karma Wh*res!" - A.C.
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
Don't need Java, AIM, Flash or Net2Phone? Then grab ftp://ftp.mozilla. org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/mozilla-win32-nb1b. zip instead, it's only 5MB. It is the very latest build of the stabilized Netscape beta branch, compiled on April 4. The official Netscape6 PR1 release uses an Mozilla engine that is already several weeks old.
Note that the Mozilla site doesn't currently offer daily Linux Netscape beta branch builds, only the normal experimental/milestone daily builds.
There was one good one posted on mozillazine last week - X-Objects: X-DOM, X-Browser, X-Version Objects. It doesn't cover everything, but it'll tell you how to do 80% of what people do with DHTML.
If you don't pretend to be anyone, are you?
Wait until you decide to remove this beast -- no uninstaller included!
Information wants to be free -- but informants want to be paid.
Wow. I am amazed that they even bother to release this hunk of garbage. Wasn't relase 13 or 14 more stable than this? Oh my God. I'm switching back to Opera.
"The television is the retina of the mind's eye" - Videodrome
After you install it just fire up the cookie tool and delete it! The cookie management tool looks to be one of the more useful new features.
Sure, it's useful, if you like going through and deleting a list of what is likely to be hundreds of cookies one at a time...
I also liked trying to respond to your post and finding that I can't cut and paste (???) and I had to retype your post. (Thank God it was short)
MadDreamer
The thing crashed on setup. My expectations weren't even this low...
A few months from now, we'll have more IE-users than ever.
Long, long ago I made a symlink from my libstdc++ to whatever it is that Mozilla wants to see so that Mozilla test builds would work on my Debian box. It seems that Mozilla is currently built to work only on Red Hat, so the rest of us have to do some fiddling. :) Make sure you're up to glibc 2.1, make the symlink, and it should work OK.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
This is mainly moz m14 code, with repackaging (but we all knew that!). From the newsgroups it does seem there are a lot of performance issues to sort out still. But in any project, performance and optimization comes after you get the basic featureset together. APIs are still not done, and the mozilla milestone releases stretch out into October:
t ones/
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/miles
Recall the NS4 beta cycle -- that went on for months. What was it? 12 of them?
Problem with the implementaion is that every window is a new web browser, and at the moment, that seems slow.
It will get better!
Do not expect a full product then for a while yet.
Well, I'm posting using NS6 =) It choked on the first run on my machine (p200 64M RH6.1) but once I made it past the introduction screens and onto regular web pages she seems to be sailing smooth. Aaah, now all we need is a real time translator for M$ Windows Media formats and we're set =) The Night Angel
And speaking of Netscape's non-compliant blink tag, what about the marquee tag in IE?
---
Hi there.
Listen, mate. When Opera can do ColdFusion pages, you can start tuning that it's better than NS/Mozilla. The fact is, though, that under Opera, ColdFusion pages return blank screens. I test it under BeOS a while back. First I tried NetPositive, the default BeOS browser. That returned an Application Error when I attempted to access the ColdFusion pages. Opera gave me a login screen, but every screen after that was returned as blank. Mozilla M14 handles these pages perfectly (well, ok, they look terrible, but at least they work 100% as far as functionality goes). I'm not a microserf, so I won't use IE on a regular basis (even though it does draw the ColdFusion pages better than NS). Don't Opera this and Opera that. It's BS. As it stands, if M14 was compiled for BeOS, it would be the #1 browser in BeOS. Neither Opera or Net+ can currently claim prime-time readiness.
Mark Villopillil
no sig
--
--
--
4.72 handles my nested folders perfectly - 6 lumped them all together, duplicated folders and offered me no choice about subscriptions.
So I thought sod it - and went over to OpenMail and Outlook.
Sorry Netscape - as much as I want you to win, your handling of IMAP in 6 sucks big time!
...Upgrade now to Schrodingers Dog...
It seems that this version include JDK 1.3 !!!!!
I answer questions for my friends, and I like to know what the 'average user' is seeing, so I downloaded it into the slowest thing I have, a PI 166 running 24megs and Win95B. A little unfair in 2000, but I wanted a hard test.
And...
It's dog slow. Really. Like i was running 4.72 on a 386. That bad. The blue is horrible -- I want to see the web page people! Not your interface. Go back to grey.... Then i clicked bookmarks. It rolled right off the screen. Good god. They didn't even test that. I tried it one more time after restarting. Same results. Enough. It gets uninstalled. I suggest Netscape will be just a memory in 12 months. Damn. That's too bad. C'mon opera 4! C'mon open source! We need a browser other than Bill's.
Well, I'm happy (I think) to report that it does run seemingly well under FreeBSD 4.0's Linux emulation. However, are they not supposed to be fixing memory issues, not creating more?
[somewhat snipped data from top]
PID SIZE RES WCPU CPU COMMAND
6755 27212K 21768K 39.79% 17.97% mozilla-bin
6641 15072K 12172K 2.85% 2.64% netscape-4.72
[Note; I did not run them at the same time.]
Call me a M$ traitor if you wish (even though I'm solely dedicated to FreeBSD) but I would be very happy for a linux copy of MSIE (to run under FreeBSD's Linux emulation) - Netscape did NOT lose 70% of the market share because M$ bundled MSIE with Windows, they lost it because M$ sadly made a better browser, don't you find that sad?
PS: These are personal opinions, send your flames elsewhere please. Thank you.
Don't take life so seriously; it isn't permanent.
I'm running NT4.0 also and the first time I ran it, it did take up 25+ megs, now it's at around 20 megs. Not good. Anyway it's a beta so that's cool I guess, but needs some work.
Sure is speedy on normal-nothing-fancy sites though, but this article took 170 seconds to load, not quite as speedy as I would've hoped. (Yeah yah I'm on a fast connection, and it never took THAT long in IE), hell the slashdot main page took over 30. The lack of an uninstall kinda bugs me too. Now I'm stuck with it I guess, just hope that in a week I don't start getting, the "Netscape is not your default browser, would you like to make it? Yes/no" Damn those messages piss me off. It's great that Netscape is trying to compete with Microsoft, but DAMN don't do it by nagging us.
OOph, don't even get me started on the crappy netcenter registration. I just wanted to try the beta dammit. First I try to register, but oops I guess one other time I also tried and it remembers my email address, ok that's fine, oh nuts, what's the password? Oh well try a new one to replace the old one. Now I have to reply to not one, not two, but three frickin emails. Jeez it's probably easier to get a work visa to the states than register this damn thing. So finally get that done and what do I get? a nice little 404 page not found, and as the startup screen. Ok even I can understand this, I mean I did mess around in the crappy registration for awhile. Hmmm nice most pages load nice and quick,
Oh hey crappy music on my current streaming station, lets go and change it, go to shoutcast and click, now what do I do with the playlist file, ooh look at that I'll choose pick app, and pick winamp, oh wait pick app isn't implemented yet. Nice.
Damn that's the longest rant EVER on my part congrats to anyone who made it though that whole mess. Now if only I can find a way to get rid of netscape 6....
Any reviews yet? From the Urban Legends File - I heard M$ IE transmits all kinds of sys info if you log on to one of their web sites. Stuff like OS, apps, etc. Any truth to this?
it sure seems to be fast...
but it's uuuuuuuugly!!!!!
what happened to all the nice icons... these blue colors are cold... and too many words to click at... i can already hear the support calls from our isp users...
>Who wants to upgrade to more bloatware when >previous versions of the browser worked better. >Fix bugs, don't add more annoying features that
>slow things down.
Nobody wants to upgrade to something that doesn't
work, but believe it or not, there are some of us
who actually like progress. I don't seen anything
wrong with adding features (_if_ they can also be
turned off) while fixing the bugs already found.
If everyone would just be happy with what we
have and fixing bugs in existing software, Linux
would not be what it is.
When you smile, the world laughs at you.
All we want to do is download a web browser and use it... not a web browser + mail reader + news reader + internet phone + instant messanger.
I am sure that it would not be too difficult for these plums to put together a couple of packages, without the bloat/goatware!
Netscape 6 is cool, although I don't like most of Microshafts products the Exploder is not bad... and I think 5.5 is alot quicker than Netscape 6.
Raj.
After you install it just fire up the cookie tool and delete it! The cookie management tool looks to be one of the more useful new features.
Loading the new pre-release gives a nice error message: The procedure entry point ??_U@YAPAXI@Z could not be located in the dynamic link library MSVCRT.dll Go netscape! Go win2k more likely.. :) Then like windows upon windows open.. i had to kill it at 65 megs of ram usage and like 100 windows.
When your bandwidth bill comes through you're going to regret that post a *hell* of a lot. Oh and when MCC network services get on to you for all this traffic going through their already flaky network you'll regret it even more.
Just don't do it, kids.... Slashdotting your uni just isn't fun.
But hey, if you want to contribute even more to the load on our servers, just go to.... Well I'm sure you can find out....
--
Said it couldn't last, said it wouldn't last... This is the last stand against tomorrow's world.
Trying is the first step toward failure. - Homer Simpson
Ok, I'm running it on a pIII 500 w/392megs of ram, but p100s? They're great for clustering and a 350 chip $50. It is a bit buggy, but over all I like it, skins and all. Lets keep in mind that the developers have to look at a new crowd to attract. The internet is no longer a geek playground but rather a HUGE social, economical and educational virtual world. I think the developers gave take an aggressive step for newer and future usability. I'm not a fan of IM but I think it's a damn good idea to integrate it into the browser. Also if your comparing rendering speeds, due at least 3 tests a page. There are such things as network traffic and burdened servers. I think N6 is faster then IE or N4.7- but then again I like Python over Perl. Overall there have been a few good points made but I think most of the post I've read have been a little quick on the draw. Flames & Cheers
The "Killer App" all of us Trolls have been waiting for! What would this godsend be called? Why the refresh button of course! Refreshing Slashdot.org until you get your shot at 'first post' have never been so easy!!! what's that you say, Netscape has always had a refresh button? ............ oh, damn. you're right. nevermind.
It looks like something a 1st grader would draw.
What happened to the "hold down the back button and get a list of previous sites" so that you could back up by a whole bunch at a time? And why is there a Search button where the "Go" button should be?
All in all, it looks terrible and isn't intuitive at all. Man, I really wanted to stop using IE, but...Sorry Netscape. You lose.
--PinkFloyd
"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to read..."
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
it refuses to do anything but call Dr. Watson to come over and play on the screen when i try to install, so does this mean it will Blue Screen when i try to d/l and install it on my win98 @ home?
how does the linux install work? very fast? hope it will go better than this M$ WinBloz NT Install even attempts to pretend to go.
Hoping to get flamed for this (don't ya just love troll msgs?)
-drach
2^3 * 31 * 647
I couldn't get the automatic proxy configuration to work (tried "http://wwwproxy.host.net:port"), but the manual proxies for ftp & http seemed to work ok ("wwwproxy.host.net", "port")... My biggest disappointment is that after many moons of open source, worldwide development, I STILL can't access the streaming audio & video sites under Linux that I can in Windows #$!#$!@%@!@$
I just installed the Windows version of N6, and got disenchanted with it in about 4 minutes. I went to remove it, but alas, NO UNINSTALLER, not even in the remove programs dialog. Now, with all the junk it added to my start menu, and registry, I don't want remnants in my system for ever. I think this is a very serious oversight, especially...ESPECIALLY for a preview product.
ever heard of zombie threads/processes?
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Hmmm, I'm using Netscape 4.7 and, well, believe IE might be a bit more streamlined etc, etc. But I really don't think ie is that much better that I would feel the need to swap! Always used netscape so there's where I feel at home. And I got no big complaints actually... Never had stability problems on win, etc, etc.. regards
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Can anyone else hear the millions toilet-flushing sounds? I know it's not done, and may be buggy; but pre-release or not, it's ugly and badly designed. Seems like Netscape tried to pack every bad idea they've had on the table into this one. I had some hope for this, now I guess I'll wait for 7. Arrrrgh!
"Never pet a burning dog."
Its been relased becuase we need competiton in the industry. If Microsoft is left with the only broswer in use then Microsoft will ditate what the standards are, this will mean in the long run that we will all be shafted. Also seeming as its still has some 40% of the Market its hardly died out has it?
Is it just me or has everyone forgotton that this is pre-release software of a completly new broswer. Yes it has porblems with crashes and bugs, but then so does every new piece of software. Give the sucker time to develope and grow. Christ do you all think that Apache was imediately stable, or Linux or Windows95( Sorry couldn't resist! :-) ) Remember in time if all goes well, we will have a stable standards compliant web browser which will run on nearly any platform you want, and it will be totally customisably. You may not want to use it full time now, so stick with Netscape 4.7 or IE5, just becuase you use them now doesn't mean that you will never use another broswer in the future, remember when everyone was using Mosaic?
Problems noted in the first (and final) fifteen minutes with NS6:
* Very slow: takes 3-5 seconds to bring up a new page of the preferences dialog, for example - on a relatively fast machine.
* Cannot load www.slashdot.org -- shows only the graphic icons, no text, happily reports that it is done, 5.3 seconds.
* Cannot load www.macnn.com -- only displays blue page background, no graphics, no text. Says it's done in 1.2 seconds. Well hey, if you are gonna leave out all the text, why not do it in 0.1?
* Cannot locate a "reload" button on the "toolbar" (nor a print, nor big-A little-A, nor...)
* totally ignores MacOS look'n'feel in all widgets; dialog boxes reminiscent of 1995 X-windows (gag).
* dropdown lists of fonts under Appearances>Fonts contain hundreds of font variation names, ignoring presence of ATM and ATR.
* displays my carefully crafted "links" local file with much different table spacing than NS4.7, making it unusable. Tinkering with dpi setting in appearances has no effect whatever on fonts or table spacing.
Tested all the above on the latest (14) build of Mozilla, and same results obtained. Fuggedaboudit.
only complaints so far from me include inabillity to use my "scrolling wheel" on my mouse, as well as some pages loading/unloading with double images. The images straighten themselves out after a second though. Also too many words all over the place. shopping business channells bizjournal? wtf is that? other than that it looks kinda cool. can't wait for the final release! --fohat
Is there heaven? Is there Hell? Is that a Tuna Melt I smell?-Primus
why does netscape have to add in the other junk when one don't want the stupid junk as the AIM and such.. I think the user should be able to disable it from it or they can have AIM as a seperate thing.. netscape acts like M$ adding bloateware...
I dunno, it looks slick and all, but it sure doesn't run very fast on my pIII/500... dragging windows creates some "droppings", etc. And a 16mb download for a complete install isn't what I call radically smaller. Oh well, it's just a beta.
--Baelmix
even though mozilla is gone, this means it is considered somewhat stable. I Like!!!!!!
a waste of electrons. When I hit back it doesn't load cached pages, it RELOADS them. 'Transfering data from ' is not enough information.
It's hard to use, very conuter-intuitive. I almost could feel sorry for any AOHELL user that tries it out.
It's also unbearably slow at rendering html.
This is garbage. Maybe the final will be better but I doubt it.
I use Opera. Much better.
And I looked, and behold, the pokemon all spontaneously combusted.
Yes to many moving thingys, my eye wants to keep following the light around the N in the corner, and the barber pole thing on the bottom is anoying to. Also it keap bugging me to activate. I filled it out with info then said it was an allready used email address. Cause I did this with old version. Well i can't remember my old name and password i never used it, ugh! this thing reminds me to much internet explorer, ah scary i have IE
Grrr, i expected this to be some revolutionary new NS, however it is nothing more than Mozilla with a different icon. They didn't even bother to fix the statusbar.text bug that's been buggin me (go to a site where the status text is set manually via javascript) I'm going to go download a skin that makes it look like the old Netscape, this one is just annoying.
Hammer of Truth
I just installed the prerealese for the mac and needless to say one hour later I moved the 45 meg folder to the trash bin. It looks nice except it is as slow as a virgin giving her first blowjob. I couldn't even load hotmail. At least IE 5 for the mac can load it .....which to say it also crashes 5 times per day.....I think I am going to go buy a gun now.
www.droppingdimes.com
This is the best piece of software I have ever used. Keep it up!
well, I'm sorry if you *hate* it, but tough. The dropdown box is a Microsoft 'innovation' and therefore it sux BIG time. If the site was worth looking at again, you would have bookmarked it.
I'm behind a big firewall, and I am not able to tell the setup about my proxy configurations.
This thing is hardly customizable.
Those big ole buttons just take all kinds of space that could show something else.
You can no longer stop animations which are the most annoying thing about the www. I guess since a lot of AOL is advertising then stopping animations will probably never happen.
Oh well, wait for another browser to come along.
Every time I've tried to run mozilla and V6 PR1
T 1
on my RedHat 6.1 system, I get an undefined symbol
error:
mozilla-bin: error in loading shared libraries: mozilla-bin: undefined symbol: NS_InitXPCOM__FPP17nsIServiceManagerP10nsFileSpec
Has anyone else come across this and figured it out?
In response to the argument microsoft is..not that bad.. Oh Yeah! Just look at those prices! Wow! Well over a hundred dollars for some program with 65,000 or so bugs! I am sure glad that they don't take the time, money, intelligence, money, innovation, money it takes to make a good friendly STABLE OS! I use M$ regularly, just because I can't afford a new G4 for my graphics and most of my customers use it as well. Linux ppl do not bash M$ for their "good" stuff (like dos)just for the hanusly stupid way they conduct themselves, stealing others technology and owning the market. They are in a good position to push for phenominal innovation. But why? They get more money from the upgrades! Jeez
'/dev/wit' is not available.
I have been a Netscape user since version 2. After version 4.x came out, I felt that Netscape had given up in the browser wars. IE seemed so much better in some areas. But I knew I couldn't give into Microsoft, so I continued to use the buggiest Netscape browser ever (I love it when version 4.7x crashes and no matter how many times you click the close button on the error message, it reappears). So I looked forward to seeing Netscape 6 and see if Netscape can give Microsoft one last run. Boy am I glad I waited. First downloaded the entire 16mb program in one file instead of downloading the 200k SmartUpdate installer. Took an hour or so on my modem. I like the idea that you can choose what you install. About time netscape. I am very impressed with what Mozilla and Netscape has done to the browser. It seems a lot faster rendering and going to web pages (although startup is sooooooo slow, but I'm sure they will fix that). I am so happy that Netscape finally can handle multiple e-mail accounts (and do it even better than outlook express). Sure, it is buggy, but this is only Preview Release 1. I wish you could install skins in this version (I am using Win98). I think the Mozilla GUI is different and more interesting to look at than earlier versions of both netscape and IE. Again, I can't wait to see what the browser would look like with skins. I think also that it is a good think that Instand Messenger can be installed directly into the browser. I am a big IM fan, so this is a plus. Overall, I give this beta a B+. Still very buggy and some features haven't been implemented yet.I hope netscape and mozilla can get the bugs stomped out of this thing soon before Microsoft decides to try to copy everything (without success I bet, no way Microsoft can make a browser this small, let alone a program).
I am runnning on an old-skool P133 with 48mbram + 1mb video ram. I was not very satisfied with the complete version of N6. The time it took to load was creepy slow. It had AOL instant messenger in it too which I would say couldn't compete with ICQ. I download the Navigator Only version. The speed increased quite significantly. Yet both installations can't beat the speed of IE5. These days people open browsers like that open their folders. Speed does matters for browsers these days. IE5 has it embedded in the OS.
*i may be wrong if the speed of N6 is based on the video memory.
See those 'borderless' frames in for example the left 'bar'? Are we indeed heading toward a 'Star Trek' type window interface? Sure this 'll look nice on my Star Trek desktop theme...
No electrons were harmed sending this message. Wait,
It looks nice, but good grief, It's sooooooooo slow!
I tried loading a largeish page from my website (from local disc, to avoid network discrepancies) and it took over a minute to load. The same page loads in six seconds with 4.7.
They're going to have to do some serious tuning to get this useable.
Ah.
This debate about the DHTML support in Mozilla/Netscape 6 raged yesterday on Mozillazine.
A lot of people are missing the point when they say "It doesn't run exsisting DHTML. It must be broken".
Netscape 6 supports the W3C DOM standards. Netscape 4 and IE 4 didn't. From that perspective the version 4 browsers are the ones that are broken.
[Aisde: I fully concur with Bob Ince's comment "I would not like to see any support whatsoever for Netscape 4's wrong-headed and in practice thoroughly broken layer model, ever. I want it to die. As soon as possible." If you've done some hardcore DHTML programming you'll truely despise Netscape 4.]
The reason DHTML sites don't run on Mozilla/Netscape 6 is that people haven't written code to support the W3C DOM. Yes, those people are going to have to right some more code, but it's not really a biggie.
What I do and what quite a few other people do (Dan Steinman for instance) is have a cross browser "class" (you can do a weird sort of OO in JavaScript 1.2) that provides a consistent API of your design and handles the browser specific implementation behind the scenes.
What will be interesting is the differences between JavaScript 1.5 and JavaScript 1.2 and how well things like animation work (demos in Milestone 13/14 seemed to take up lots of CPU cycles and be slow).
On the DHTML resource tip. I assume you're talking about W3C DOM stuff. Here are some interesting zones.
* WebFX (http://webfx.eae.net/)
* DynLayer (http://www.dansteinman.com/dynduo/) - Mozilla support coming soon
* Mozilla DOM (http://dhtmlfiend.cjb.net/)
* W3C (http://www.w3.org/)
* WebAbstraction Article (http://wsabstract.com/javatutors/dom.shtml)
Enjoy.
-Walter
http://sites.netscape.net/wrumsby
- I'm sick of yet another application that writes its own GUI. Maybe the main menus are GTK, but the toolbar menus are clunky and buggy "custom code". (Out of the box, the bookmarks menu doesn't function properly: Open a submenu then go back to the main menu under linux and it goes nuts. Handcoded in some basic canvas widgets I suspect.)
- I went through a bunch of the preferences to bring the behavior toward what I like, but the "OK" button rejected my changes and wouldn't close the preferences window. I needed to "cancel" and bring up preferences again, to go through them a few a time.
- Scrolling is MUCH slower under linux than 4.72. This slashdot message thread caused it to choke. Hold the down-arrow until auto repeat kicks in and 6 will spend lots of time after you release the button trying to process all the extra repeats. 4.72 keeps up with the autorepeat.
- SMTP sending doesn't work with my ISP. I tried sending myself a message via my ISP. Admittedly, kmail also has trouble communicating with my ISP's SMTP servers, but Netscape 6 never even connected. (Yes, the preferences were set.) Worse yet, after quitting and restarting Moz6, the unsent mail was not in "unsent" or "drafts" folders. It had vanished.
- The "Back" button no longer pops up a menu of recent history. I use this feature of 4.x all the time and miss it in 6.
I would love to support and use a better browser, but it is WAY too premature to pre-release this one. I don't care about "instant messaging" from a browser. In fact, I don't really care about e-mail from a browser. I want a good browser!!! With a good browser, I can access an Instant Messaging server, and an e-mail server.I've heard that some Linux users are "smart" and "good with computers". But then I hear a rumor that other Linux users are "whiners" and like to "bitch and moan" about pointless things.
Maybe one of the "smart" Linux guys can build a smaller installation package for other "bitch" users.
Hey, this is a PR 1 version only!!
:)
Rest assured, that there will be binary versions for ALL unices - Sun, SGI, SCO, *BSD, etc..
Those guys at Netscape got those machines you know
Hetz (Heunique)
From what it seems - looks like you need Administrative rights to install the Netscape 6 with Net2Phone
Hetz (Heunique)
Enjoy.
I wouldn't call iCab entirely useful as an everyday browser at this point--it has no CSS support at all, minimal JavaScript support, no DOM (hence the minimal JS)... although for pure HTML pages, it is the danged fastest thing I've ever seen. If they can get it up to standards, it'll be a real humdinger.
I tried it from /tmp. I'm running potato (a mistake, but that's another issue), but didn't get that message.
But then, we've usually had to use shift-alt-arrow, since X intercepts alt-arrows under most configurations. Then again, with a different window manager, you might use the default alt-arrow. But if you use KDE, you're in trouble because it doesn't seem to like you using netscape in the first place, and you don't get *any* arrow key motions.
.
And using the brackets may be reminiscent of the switcher on the mac--switching between virtual macintoshes before the multifinder. Come to think of it, I think I used it after the multifinder, too, to save memory . .
THe download came at about 100k/s the third time. The first two were at 80. If you use netscape3 to download, it takes the file and tosses it into the ether without saving it or prompting you; I had to use a shift-click. And there doesn't seem to be a 128 bit encription--I fired up netscape yesterday for the first time in weeks to try to access vanguard; I don't have much use for netscape now that I have lynx launching new instances of itself . . .
Nope, it's the default KDE and fvwm2 from FreeBSD. I don't use KDE, it's there for my wife & kids.
kde+netscape is also the only way I've seen X on that box get locked so hard I couldn't get to a text console.
The linux version doesn't seem to have one, nor does it have a README . . .
./netscape. It launches, and takes a few minutes drawing screens, resizing its window, occasionally flashing something. THen it just sits and spins, eating all cpu time. I can't get at a menu to try turnign off java and javascript. THen it locked up the pointer in X while I was writing this in lynx, forcing me to go to a text console to kill the mozilla-bin's . . .
I untarred the thing, and not finding anything to reat, tried running
Is it any good? I couldnt' tell you; I can't get that far.
This machine is old, slow, and lean, but it can run netscape3, and plod it's way through 4.
Everything seems to work OK, unless I go to the "What's new in Netscape 6" site, whereupon the window fills with garbage, then the whole thing crashes... Bizarre.
--
For a lot of users it makes sense. If you don't want Java 2, why be forced to download all 7MB of Sun JRE? I kinda like it, and I would have desparately wanted in the days when I was still connected via a modem.
This is something IE has being doing for a while. However, IE allows you to specify that you just want to download and not actually install. Then you have all the components so that you can do an install without hitting the web.
This is a preview release: give them time to iron out the issues. They'll need to get it as smooth and slick as IE, and then it'll be fine.
Remember, you can get the source from ftp.mozilla.org and compile it for whatever you want. Don't complain just because Netscape's preview doesn't support the MIPS processor released in 1985 that you just can't part with, just go, compile and be happy. Is running ./configure && make reallu that difficult?
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
Mozilla is not nearly dead. This is Netscape's preview release of their derivative of the Mozilla tree. This build was pulled weeks ago, and the new Mozilla builds include much more functionality now, IMHO. What has been released is the BETA of the NETSCAPE feature set for Mozilla. This is not a Mozillla beta, just a Netscape one. Hope this is clear, because if you give the impression that Mozilla is 'dead,' that would not be good.
-- Jason@mozillazine.org
I hope Netscape takes advantage of the theming capabilities of Mozilla and actually themes their browsers so that they look like the OS they are intended to install on. One of the major downsides to Mozilla (IMHO) is that they don't use the native widget set, effectively introducing another layer of complexity into the GUI which will probably end up confusing the end-user more than anything else. The easy decision now would be to make the Windows version have a default 'Windows' widget, the Mac version have a default 'Mac' widget, etc.
In terms of coding and portability, yes the current implementation is probably the best, but the end-user doesn't think in terms of coding and portability. They'll see Netscape 6 and think, "Oh, God, it made Windows look different."
Instructions for un-installing this release are in the release notes at this URL: http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/ns6/relnotes/ pv6-1.html
Okay, I've been using Mozilla for over a year -- and as my primary browser for quite a number of months...
But I really hoped that Netscape 6 would have waited until they had a freakin' drop down for the address edit box... I *hate* not being able to pick and choose from other URL's I've been to recently!
So long as you're careful, it should be possible to write standards-compliant, cross browser DHTML which will work (without browser-sniffing) in at least IE5+ and Netscape 6+. Problems in the short term, but really this is great news.
I'll second that. I'll also add that under Windows it has ugly fonts, is as sluggish as a big java applet (P133 w.80M), and underperforms IE by a wide margin. Sigh. I can actually watch the widgets chase my mouse... infact I have trouble not watching the widgets chase my mouse.
I was hoping they would fix the memory and speed issues before it got out of alpha. Is it out of alpha? It took sixteen seconds... real seconds for it to restore from my taskbar. My poor system was swapping memory like mad.
To top it all off the interface is ugly, and the peripheral apps (AOL IM, etc) are typically annoying.
It appears as though IE is going to be the way to go on anyhardware short of a PII w. 128M of RAM.
The only advantage this package has over v4 is standards compliance, PNGs and much faster table rendering.
"Their server is not letting bug reports in." I don't even know where to start. Well, I guess I can start with "it's been open for nearly two years." At any point during that time, you could have submitted that bug. I'll follow up with: Since you never submitted the bug, how the heck do you expect it to get fixed? Those things don't just happen on their own, you know. You can't just download a beta product and expect things to magically be fixed. Finally, I'll just say you are full of it- all of these bugs have been submitted to day. Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking that maybe bugzilla is open and you've just been too lazy to find this page. Now go, run along, and put your money where your wide mouth is. P.S. Sorry to go off, but it's not just you- there are about 10 million complaints here (some good, most not so good) of people who just expect good, free, software to magically appear in front of them without investing any of their own energy.
IAAL,BIANLY
No, the UI is still bog slow. (And ugly as hell, of course.) Moving the mouse along the menubar, the menu draws can't keep up with my mouse movement. It's as if my computer were in power-save mode... except it's not.
I can't even maximise the window to fit my whole screen.
Sure, it renders HTML fast. Too bad it can't render itself as fast.
I installed the Linux version. I downloaded the "light" 10meg tarball and installed. When I run gtop reports over 23 megs of memory. In comparison, Netscape 4.5 uses 17.
There is no Java in this version. I do have the SSL stuff installed, but I'm not using SSL. My Sidebar is opened to the bookmarks, which shouldn't be a huge drain. Netscape 4.x used a statically compiled Motif, which I always assumed accounted for the vast amount of memory drain. Now, we don't have that excuse.
*sigh* I hope Opera comes up to speed soon.
-Dave
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I guess NS 6.0 includes some components of Mozilla, most noticably the Gecko renderer, but not all. Plus of course there'll be tons of old NS code to handle Flash, Java, etc etc. About 4Mb of overhead (comparing the 10Mb download to the 6Mb Mozilla download).
Oh well, I'm sure most of *us* will like it.
More important will be the public acceptance and attitude. And whether AOL will finally use Ns/Gecko in its products. How compliant IE 5.5's Tasman *really* is (the Netscape article on DevEdge seemed a tad biased.
Even if this won't pull Netscape out of the dark, it would be nice if we could start developing websites without compatibility hacks. That alone would be worth it IMHO.
I'll be back when wget tells me it has [100%].
Don't blame NT because you're too incompetent to use it.
Certainly it's too late to beat the entrenched IE.
Just like Excel was too late to beat the entrenched 1-2-3, and Word was too late to beat WordPerfect, and IE 3.0 was too late to beat Netsc...
I hope my point is made?
Steven E. Ehrbar
UNIX was never really defeated. NT has yet to gain anything approaching a majority share in the data center market, where unix has reigned supreme for 20-odd years now. The majority of web and mail servers have always been unix.
Netscape on the other hand was lofted high then knocked off its perch at which point it collapsed under its own bloated and buggy weight. The best minds of the company have left, and we're expecting the skeletal remains now reanimated by AOL (who have also not set many records for software quality) to make a comeback?
I'm not holding my breath. The underdog I'd rather root for is Opera.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
An editor I can see. Read markup, write markup. Has a very nice symmetry to it, and it's complex enough to need to wire it into the application.
But if javascript is inadequate to write even a basic POP mail client in, then what the hell is the point? To write rollovers? This was supposed to be a platform in itself, yet it seems the one and only language binding made for it cannot be used to write anything of significant complexity, such as a mail app.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
(flame? probably)
A lot of people are complaining how they don't want integrated this, bundled that, and installed-alongside the-other. Well, thats too bad, because lots of people - how many millions are on AOL now? - do.
Look, I'm all for tiny, I dislike all these features that to me are useless. But Netscape is trying to regain browser share, and if they release a "next generation" browser without the ability to read mail/news, search, and feed the cat, they'll get crucified in the press and the legions of (l)users out there won't think twice about forgoing the download and double-clicking on IE. Blame M$, blame AOL, blame whomever you want. If you don't want all these "features" then don't use it! Use W3-mode, use Lynx, use NetPositive, whatever. Its a sad state of affairs but I don't fault Netscape one bit.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
The Mac version is nice.... Takes a friggin month to start, but its nice otherwise. Wish it had more of the native widgets; I get them on my Linux machine, why can't I have them on my Mac??
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Sorry, but no cigar. :-(
Netscape needs to desperately put in some time in terms of usability improvements. Trying to find setup menus, configuration preferences, etc. is just a mess in Netscape 6 PR1 compared to IE 5.01. This is where Microsoft's excellent "Usability Lab" comes in--Microsoft has a development group that have actual users take a program through its paces and get feedback on where to put in menus, icons, setup options, and so on.
We all hope that future public beta builds of Netscape 6 will be a bit speedier and also has a better user interface, because if this is what we're going to get in Netscape 6, we're not going to hold out hope for end users to switch from Internet Explorer 5.01 (and eventually 5.5).
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Having played with Netscape 6.0 PR1, I have one comment to describe this program: you have got to be kidding!
First, the program is an absolute system hog--it makes Internet Explorer 5.01 for Windows 95/98/NT/2000 seem small in comparison. Secondly, when the program starts, it takes a LONG, LONG time to start the program compared to IE 5.01. Third, while it does render quickly once you DO get the program started, the way it renders many web pages sucks like a vacuum cleaner. -_- Pages like espn.go.com, cnn.com, www.zdnet.com, and even slashdot.org look strangely formatted in comparison to IE 5.01 and even Communicator 4.72. Finally, the "look and feel" of Netscape 6.0 is frequently extremely unintuitive compared to IE 5.01.
If this is what Netscape 6.0 is, Netscape is history, even IF Microsoft is broken up.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
When has a previously-dominant, now-defeated commercial software product ever made a comeback?
UNIX?
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR1 /unix/linux22/ne tscap e-v600pr1.x86-unknown-linux2.2.tar.gz
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Try it, you'll like it. It's my impression that Mozilla is considerably ahead of Netscape 6 prerel at this point, and that's as it should be. Although I have to admit, this Netscape build is impressively stable considering... (2nd slashdot post, 4-5 windows open for an hour on a limited-memory machine, and STILL ALIVE!!!:)
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
It's unfortunate that Microsoft didn't start supporting document.getElementById until version 5 of IE.
And even though it's now supported, most IE-specific DHTML that I've seen still uses document.all (which is apparently a VisualBasic-ism that MS grafted onto the DOM spec.) Understandable because IE 4 shipped with Windows 98 and will probably need to be supported on public websites for the next several years.
<controversial>
One easy solution for this problem would be for Mozilla to suck it up and support document.all. Yes, it's proprietary MS embrace+extend junk. But, unfortunately, 99% of the "almost compliant" DHTML code out there uses document.all, and because of the IE 4 issue.
If Netscape suported document.all, developers could have one code path that supported IE4, IE5, and Netscape 6. Because they won't, it means multiple code paths, 'libraries', and browser sniffing will need to continue for the forseeable future.
</controversial>
(On the other hand, as soon as Netscape 6 ships, I can see sites deprecating their Netscape 4-specific DHTML code. It's non-standard, Netscape had the tendency to blow up while running it, and it's too different to be maintainable over a long period. )
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
1) Netscape 6 is built on top of Mozilla. If Mozilla went away today, there would never be another Netscape.
... for a network install program.
2) It's a small download
C'mon. Let's not post stupid ass articles full of half-truths and hateful suppositions. It's obvious from the person who submitted this news that they don't like netscape.
Bad Mojo
Bad Mojo
"If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin
Maybe it has changed (I'm using the 03/23 build that someone posted a link to last week), but my menu says ctrl-[ and ctrl-] (I'm not smoking anything right now, thank you very much!)
But no, neither of those options seem to be working...:(
Eric
When I started up N6, it went through this whole routine told me that I would have to change my easy to remember name to something abstract and bizarre to satisfy its corporate renaming requirements. I think Netscape is merging the webmail name lists with AOL IM Service, which is integrated with Netscape IM. So now instead of "peteshaw" I need to come up with PeteShawSpankMyMonkey or something long and stupid.
Sorry, PeteShawSpankyMyMonkey is already taken. How about PeteShawSpankyMyMonkey140 ?
----- Documentation is worth it just to be able to answer all your mail with 'RTFM' - Alan Cox.
As you said, "I'll just say you are full of it."
x .html. . I just tried to submit a report again at 19:51 UTC and it is STILL not taking submissions.
Their (Netscape's) server was not letting bug reports in as of the time I made my post. Their (Netscape's) site for Netscape 6.0 bug report is http://home.netscape.com/browsers/6/feedback/inde
As for even suggesting that I did not submit that bug, how about me saying "I have submitted that bug 4 different times"?
I had thought about that, however....
The problem here, as I see it, is not that it does not work, it is that all these claims have been made about having a standards compliant browser. MS does it. Netscape does it. XYZ does it.
Yet, when the browser hits the market, it is not. So, we people who write web pages have to find workarounds that end up not being standards compliant. In other words, what is the point in having standards if nobody is going to follow them?
I dunno. Maybe I am just in a grouchy mood today.
Clicking on the back button doesn't bring up a list of pages.
:)
:\
:) And I do dig the look of it..
Like it has been said, bookmark management has gotten worse. Hope that changes.
Looks like composer still can't handle frames, but maybe that's a good thing.
Mail appears to be able to handle multiple pop3 boxes finally. I would test this, but when I'm flipping through help searching for information on some new features, it takes over my current browser window in which I'm writing my Slashdot post.
I HATE THAT. Help should be built into the application, it should not require visiting a web page - and if it does, let it spawn a NEW window, not take over my current one, which I couldn't go back to by hitting the back button for some reason. Macromedia is guilty of this as well.. first place I saw do it.
It IS fast, though, even on my horribly crippled machine here.
20 minutes without a crash so far, which is more than I can say for 4.7 on my machine.
BilldaCat
I had the same problem you have. Basically, I did ftp to one of netscape's servers (if you can get via ftp from behind your firewall), ftp4.netscape.com. The directory you need to grab the files from is
.xpi files need to be in the same directory as the setup program.
/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR1/windows/win32/xpi/
However, you can't access the directory itself. You can only grab individual files. In order to get the file names, I ran the install program, which gives me a file name when it attempts the download. Then I just pulled that file from netscape's server. After you get the file, just do run the setup again, and it will give you the next file. I just did the typical setup, and needed the following files:
browser.xpi
core.xpi
flash.xpi
mail.xpi
nim.xpi
psm.xpi
spellchecker.xpi
When you get the correct files, the setup program then will not attempt to download them, but will just go ahead and so the install. Oh, I'd assume that the
Josh
Whoa! the comet thing has gotten kind of "loud" since the last nightly build. How do I disable this?
If you have anything more than a 256 color display, I redid a bunch of icons and you can get 'em here Untar it above your package directory and it will overwrite the ugly icons.
--Ben
Hey, all I'm saying is that resources which can be dedicated to helping Open Source software are limited. Do you want to spend you valuable time helping a company which is responsible for putting millions of dumb newbies on the net, shutting down the gnuella site; a company that could easily hire people to do some QA work, or someone who actually deserves your support who is resource constrained.
Me, I don't care either way, just some food for thought.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
What happened to the days when you just download the setup EXE, run it, and the software was installed???
For that matter, what happened to the days you simply downloaded the program you wanted as an EXE file? :)
Does it leak memory? After an hour or so, three windows were using 45K of free memory, slowing my meager 64K laptop to lots of grinding. //e had 128K. I'd recommend getting at least a meg or two. :)
Dude, even my trusty Apple
Memory has gotten pretty cheap again.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
OK. wrong choice of words in the title.
I do download browser only, BUT what I'm saying is I don't even want those options to be there.
I mean look at the menus, all the subscription crap is still showing in there, the email crap.
In the configuration options it's all there.
I'm talking about all that stuff not even being there. No extra code allowed for any of that stuff.
Just a LEAN, MEAN BROWSING MACHINE! And all those damn toolbars! all I need is forward, backwards, refresh, stop, home. Ta daaa...nice and simple. Oh and an address bar.
No "Personal" or "Links" toolbar that, by default, is filled with the "approved" websites or Favorites that's already full of Microsoft crap that only AOLites look at like the sheep that they are.
No Search button that will automatically send me to the "approved" search sites.
OK. Rant off. Just venting.
Agree entirely. What I *do* want is something that's 100% HTML-4.01 and CSS2-compliant, preferably with XML in there as well to rival (rival? *better*!) IE5. Java is optional. Javascript is a disable-by-default option.
.|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
And small, and fast, and using a decent native GUI interface like GTK+.
So far the best option is Konqueror (kfm) under KDE. There are also such things as gzilla as well though.
Knocking one of these together should not be hard - there are SGML and XML parsers a-plenty out there, glade for "visual GTK+", and a few jolt colas later...
If you're really feeling perverse, check out "mmm" - written in ML. Anyone know of anything in Scheme? (*Not* emacs lisp, please!)
~Tim
--
~Tim
--
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
near as i can tell it grabbed my proxy settings from my netscape4 or mozilla(m14) or ie5.5 settings (damned if i know which .. but those are the only places its setup .. my guess would be the IE ones built into windoze though) .. granted my proxy doesn't require authentication or anything ..
just my dos centabos
bemis
> looks basically like a Mozilla nightly build
> with AOL crap thrown in
At least it allows you to opt out of installing the Instant Messenger, which the 4.7 installer obliges you to install.
Seems fairly stable for a "preview release." It only took me a few minutes to crash it, but it seems a lot closer to feature complete and stable than the last Mozilla build I grabbed.
PS While they're at it, can we do something about that annoying SmartDownload program that shows banners?
Welcome to the wonderful world of AOL.
--
+&x
I ran into the same problem. I don't use Netscape for mail and never have, but as I recall, one of the come-ons for signing up as a NetCenter member was that you'd get a permanent e-mail address. So much for that.
And Pete's right, there are *no* acceptable usernames left. Hell, someone's even already got "dubdublin", and I have got to believe I'm the only person in the country twisted enough to actually go by a name like "Dub Dublin" (I'm a third, it's a nickname, long story.) There aren't even that many Dublins to start with. It also ticks me off (since I have such an unusual name) that some bozo is running around on AOL/AIM making at least some people suspect that he's me!
Grrrrrrrr, it's this sort of heavy handedness that makes me just want to chuck Netscape. When is the real Mozilla scheduled for completion, anyone? [grin]
Maybe this is the time to finally jump to Opera, but I'd really like to be able to use the same bookmarks everywhere, and Opera isn't cooked on Linux/Unix yet...
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
See? Netscape is available in the English, Japanese and Marketing language! :-)
--frank[at]unternet.org
Ok, I downloaded the preview release, which looks basically like a Mozilla nightly build with AOL crap thrown in. The gui is identical. However, upon checking Alphanumeric I see that have a nice new skin called "Sullivan". It makes the browser seem a lot "fresher".
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
We only get the 10Mb all-in package.
No, 032909 is just as bad at registering clicks as the rest of the nightlies have been for the past week. I should know, I reported bug 33952.
:)
But while the developers play "Hot Potato" with the bug, I make the best of it. Like, if I feel like clicking frantically in order to get anything done but I'm bored of xbill, there's always Mozilla.
(And about bug 34528 - try leaving the sidebar on. It works for me.)
--
No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
Yes, I've even used it myself a few times
However, with respect to some earlier comments to the effect of "they are fixing the bugs, then they'll speed it up", this worries me. I've heard the same argument used elsewhere (KDE, for example).
I agree with the concept of "Get it working first, then tweak it." However, in my experience "tweaks" can get you at best 20% speedups (unless your starting code was really dreadful. However, when you start looking to get order of magnitude increases, you don't just "tweak": you have to go down to the fundimental algorithms and completely revamp them. A simple example: you can tweak and polish a bubblesort all you want, and you might get 10% improvement out of it. However, if you go to a quicksort, you will start to get near order of magnitude improvements.
What worries me is that several aspects of Mozilla need order of magnitude improvements. I'm worried that by the time the Mozilla team gets around to working on those sections of code, too much will have been cast in concrete and it won't be possible to make the sweeping changes needed to get the speed up.
Now, I'll grant that if the code is very modular, with good interfaces between modules, it should be possible to replace subsystems without breaking everything. I've not had enough time to go over the Mozilla code myself (I have a big project I'm working on and I don't have time to contribute much to Mozilla (more's the pity)) so I cannot say if it is or isn't that modular (but from what I've seen of the team working on it I have high hopes).
I just hope they are able to make the improvements needed, because as it is today, Mozilla ain't a competitor to Netscape 4.7, and sure ain't close to IE. (excuse me, I must wash my hands now. I feel so dirty....)
And before anybody calls me a dirty stinkin' MicroSoftie: I'm using Netscape 4.72 under RH6.2beta right now. The last time I booted one of my computers under Windows a week ago, and that's just because the program I needed to run won't run under Wine.
www.eFax.com are spammers
To clarify: they may render pages quickly, but any attempt to do any kind of configuration takes several tens of seconds to get the screen up. This is on a Celeron-400, RH6.2beta, and 256M of RAM!
I've done several clean installs, I've pulled every trick 12 years of being a professional software engineer has taught me, and my results are consistent. Either I keep making the same mistake or something's rotten.
Anybody have good response time doing configuration?
www.eFax.com are spammers
What do you mean by "when it is finished"? When mozilla is "finished"? When the first nonbeta of Netscape 6 is released?
My expectation is that there will be more or less continuous releases of mozilla (nightlies or weeklies), and that netscape will also keep releasing new branded versions that include proprietary code.
--
The shareholder is always right.
I do have a burner and use it, but some downloads are always updating and changing so fast that it is hard to keep up. I wish I could get a xDSL or cable modem but they don't serve in my home area :(.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
It sucks for my 26400 modem connection! I would like to download the whole package so I can download overnight, burn to a CD, use it on other computers without redownloading, etc. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Boy, I'd have to rate Cmdr Taco's post "-1, Troll"...and a mighty successful one at that.
ftp1.netscape.com
ftp2.netscape.com
ftp3.netscape.com
ftp4.netscape.com
ftp5.netscape.com
ftp6.netscape.com
ftp7.netscape.com
ftp8.netscape.com
I pulled it off at around 500k/s. Try one of those and you'll be happy!
Brad Johnson
--We are the Music Makers, and we
are the Dreamers of Dreams
Brad Johnson
Why does everyone insist on posting binaries only for x86 *nix's!?!? Sure, most of the boxes out there are x86 based. So what? Would it really take that much effort to compile/cross-compile it for another chipset? ... invisible ... THING ... !"
-----
"I will be as a fly on the wall... I shall slip amongst them like a great
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Sure, but IE has already beaten Netscape in the mass market. When has a previously-dominant, now-defeated commercial software product ever made a comeback? Lotus 123 didn't. WordPerfect didn't. dBase didn't. And Netscape won't.
Ok, all I have to say is that if you have downloaded netscape 6, and not tried the Sullivan skin.... Well shame on you. It works. And it is more stable then the latest nightly. Plus some nicities.
Here is my mirror:
ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/netscape/
I just got it and installed it. Looks just like mozilla, and unfortunately, that is why I don't like it. Yes, mozilla is a great product, but it has some user interface flaws.
First of all, some of the hot keys that I am used to changed, (^N only des files, ^L fr a new web site). Isn't that what killed word perfect (the first time at least). You have to follow user interface design standards (which, unfortunately, MS set the par on and we all have to live with (hence, shoot me).
Next, too much advertising and stuff like that. It may be an OO design, but the screen is too busy and the side bar (which you can ALMOST totally get rid of) takes away from valuable web page real estate. Rule of thumb, assume grandma is using a 21 inch monitor set on 640x480 so that she can see your whole page... you just too away 1/3 of her eyesight. The interface is difficult to use from grandma's standpoint.
So, to wrap it all up, it is a OPEN SOURCE MARVEL, but like Linux (which I use) I do not think that it is the right answer for the masses.
Before you hate me, I use Linux, apache, mysql and star office, along with linux... but for PHB's, Grandmothers, Janitors, and other people that are not heavy into computers, I recommend Easy to use, albeit substandard programs.
Afterall, the BEST way to get to LA from new york is to fly, but not everyone is a pilot.
NS6 passes with flying colors at the W3C CSS Level 1 test battery. A few misrenders but a lot better than IE.
The Night Angel
Once you run that "smart setup" locally, it can tell it's parent company lots of information about your system
If you really think the installer is doing this, why are you running the software at all? Surely if they're going to be planting evil information sniffing agents into their installation program, why wouldn't they do something more thorough with the application itself?
I had trouble hitting the download page provided by the original thread. If you're experiencing the same problem, just go to Cnet, and download the small 200k setup file from Cnet.com.
---------------
---------------
JavaScript tutorials scripts
Going through the website at the link provided won't let you download the beta unless you accept a tracking cookie from ads.web.aol.com. It looks like you can do an FTP download without cookie tracking from:
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/nets cape6/english/6_PR1.
----
----
Open mind, insert foot.
--
I'd actually go as far as to say that the release of a commercial Netscape 6 will be the point when Mozilla.ORG really starts coming into its own. Just imagine: a commercial browser with millions of users, but still (almost) all the code out there for anyone to grab and hack on.
Methinks the future looks very bright. Now we just need a working OpenJava plugin for Linux...
I don't know if they'll work with the netscape beta, but if you are using a nightly build of mozilla, you can get skins from Chromezone. Since beta is nearly identical to the nightlies, these should work, but no guarantees from me. BTW, I strongly recommend Aphrodite and Sullivan- don't waste your time on the others (yet- classic could be really nice, eventually.)
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Just an FYI, in the latest nightlies there are no keyboard commands in the pulldowns. We'll see what that means, I suppose. ;)
Also, in Mozilla, everything is skinnable- not just skinnable in the "I can make it look pretty" sense, but also in the "I can change it completely" sense. That includes keyboard shortcuts, menu layouts, menu content, etc., etc., not just getting rid of that horrific blue-green
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Netscape is the first in what we at mozilla.org expect will be a long list of vendors and organizations releasing Mozilla-based products, and while that's a pretty exciting milestone, it's not our final goal. Lots more work to do.
If you're having trouble with specific parts of the Netscape beta, you might want to try the upcoming Mozilla M15 to see if the bugs in question have been fixed. There are a few familiar reports in the comments here, and some of them are already fixed in the tree. (Nightlies are always a hit-and-miss thing, and have been largely miss in the last week or so, but the brave and self-directed might want to take a peek in the interim.)
(Posted with 2000032909)
Absolutely agreed. Checking out the Mozilla home page, you see that while the number of "outside" developers has increased only slowly, the number of checkins from outside has skyrocketed. This exactly mirrors my own intentions - I've always promised myself that I'd actually start hacking the code and contributing better features (in the sense that *I* will like them more:) only after the commercial version of Netscape is forked off.
The reasons for this are simple.
1) Don't even think about trying to get a new feature, as opposed to a bug fix into the source tree while the Netscape team is on the straight stretch towards a commercial release.
2) Now that Netscape is separate, Mozilla is a LOT more "ours".
I think I'm hardly the only developer that feels this way. I'd look for the number of outside developers to double in the next month.
BTW, for anyone that's interested, if you want to hack on Mozilla you need a gig of free disk space, and good fast processor - I'd suggest at least 400 MHz, and any current version of Linux. Downloading the source takes about 30 mins on a 56K modem and the initial build takes about 40 mins. In contrast to other reports I've seen, I've never had a *single* nightly tree fail to build on Linux. It's actually pretty darn easy to get into, compared to some source installs I've done.
(Posted with Netscape 6 pre-release of course:)
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
RANT MODE ON
What is with these installers these days? You download a tiny instalation EXE which then in turn tries to download the actual software package. The hell with you if you are actually behind a firewall or proxy that the "smart" installer doesn't know about!
What happened to the days when you just download the setup EXE, run it, and the software was installed???
RANT MODE OFF
Anyway, if anyone knows how to install the Windoze version of this on a machine behind a proxy let me know!
________________________________
hi people. im just testing the postability of this shiny new browsetr. This troll seemed like a good thing to respond to. Is there anything better than hot mozilla down the front of your gritscape?
Lessee... two problems. ALT-[left|right] arrow have been replaced with CTRL-[ and CTRL-]. Years of reflexive training down the tubes. Also, manage bookmarks is next to useless. I can't drop bookmarks into a folder, open or closed. They fall either above or below the folder.
But, man, it sure is fast.
Eric, making his 'first post' from N6
ftp://ftpX.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR 1
Replace the X with any number from 1 to 8, and there you go.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
The small download only includes the setup.exe file. The rest of the files are downloaded from netscape's FTP site.
From the looks of mozilla, the total amount to download should be around 6mb.
PS While they're at it, can we do something about that annoying SmartDownload program that shows banners?
Netscape's user-agent string has been "Mozilla" since at least version 1 -- long before there was Mozilla Project. For that matter, Explorer shows up in access logs as Mozilla/MSIE.
This does not mean MICROS~1 is using Mozilla Project code in Explorer.
Well, I'm posting from Mozilla. (Sue me, I like the name Mozilla.)
Some quick notes: I started using the web back when beta versions of Mosaic were the height of sophistication. I used Netscape up until the 4.x days on Unix, NT, and Mac, when I switched to MSIE on both NT and Mac. Why? It was better, a lot better in some cases.
Mozilla Win32 impressions so far: not so great.
The activation script is hideous- lots of graphical glitches that remind me of student written X programs.
The browser overall isn't faster than MSIE5. Opening menus is slowwww- just scrolling back and forth across the menubar will cause the menus to lag. Opening/closing windows is also slow, at least compared to MSIE. Hopefully this is just debug code and the real Mozilla will be faster.
So far no crashes. Doesn't say much, but some of the stuff I've thrown at Mozilla would have already killed Netscape4.
Why, oh why doesn't Mozilla mark where I was in a previous document when I hit the back key? Why doesn't it copy MSIE's autocomplete function? Both are serious reasons I might not use this over MSIE.
Many of my old Java applets don't display correctly. This might just be my bad programming, but given my horrible memories of trying to get applets to function under Netscape/Mac I'm a bit worried.
The Chime plug-in doesn't work- it doesn't display anything. This alone will keep me from using it until it's fixed. (To be fair, Chime is a tricky plug-in- MSIE has had problems with it for years.) Have to send a bug report.
Thanks guys, for letting me kill AOL IM. I stopped using Netscape on the Mac the day a new version installed IM even when I told it not to.
Will I use it? Maybe, at least to check out sites I write. But it's not enough to make me switch for good on NT/Mac, especially since MSIE5 is out for the Mac as well.
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Whats the deal here? Not every Linux user is a dedicated hacker. I do dive into code every once and a while but I sure like having step-by-step instructions or an install program.
So how come Netscape (and the mozilla project) both ship a tar.gz which unpacks a directory called "package"?? what a wierd name for a program directory. So now what? Ok so one has to unpack it in an already made directory say /usr/mozilla then read the README on how to run. like you can't run the thing with the current directory anywhere except the directory where you unpacked it. So the real deal here is there should be a README availiable on-line or in Netscape's FAQ on what steps and causions someone should be aware of before downloading and installing.
This really comes down to, Companies should adhear to either of the two de-facto standards:
- GNU configure (autoconf/automake) Most unix users understand how to use this install utility and find that packages built with this a far eaisier to understand and build.
- One executable install shield Wana ship binaries? well toss them in a self extracting executable (shar?) and have the install program ask proper questions like where to install and what compenants to install. This method is very poular on window based machines. Why not use it for other platforms?
So wheres the hold up? why is it always so different for any other operating system except the ones Billy boy authorizes?> SELECT * FROM brain_cells WHERE synaptic_rate > 0
0 row returned
- The back button no longer functions as a history dropdown. This is a very convenient feature, and downright necessary when the previous page has a redirect to the current page.
- A home button. I'm definitely not the first to comment about this.
- The url window no longer has a history dropdown. This was also very handy.
Aside from that, I can only pray that the speed improves in the final release. If not the question will shift from "Will Netscape make up the lost ground?" to "Will Netscape survive?"Oh the humanity. mozilla.org is down, the nightly builds have stopped, the source tree has been closed, and M15 is right out.
I am, of course, being sarcastic. mozilla shows no signs of going away just because a commercial distro happens to be on the release schedule.
Unless someone knows otherwise.
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
Okay, I've held off on commenting on Mozilla and/or Netscape 6 until I had a version that would actually run.
The themeable/skinnable GUI is just a bad, bad, BAD idea. I haven't tried it on my Mac yet, but the Win32 beta is horribly slow and unresponsive (one time I got a "this cookie wants to be set" dialog after I had closed the browser window!), and the UI sticks out like a sore thumb -- it feels like I'm running a big honking Java applet instead of the "leanest, most stable browser on the market".
Yes, I know this is a beta, but I have yet to see any program improve 200% over a preview version, which is what this needs.
The HTML rendering is great, however. Although it's weird to see the background GIFs rendering incrementally then tiled, and watching tables render incrementally is odd as well, it does feel faster than Netscape 4.x.
Jay (=
I don't mean this to be a flame, but it is going to come out as one.
A long time ago (when 4.5 came out) I griped right here on Slashdot because of the way it was handling the resizing of images in tables. When you told an image to be 100% of a cell wide, it worked fine. But when you told it to be 100% of a cell tall, it would not. So, I bitched.
Some lady from Netscape saw my post on here and sent me an email about "Well, we are not going to fix bugs in 4.x, but you are welcome to help us fix things in Mozilla by submitting bug reports!" Well, I did.
So, now I download 6.0 and what do I find? The same fricking bug is there.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Check out the bug.
I would submit this as a bug, but their server is not letting bug reports in.
More bloatware. Of course AOL owns them now so it's AOLware.
What is it with throwing everything into a web browser nowadays?
All I want is a web browser with java capabilities, security for on-line ordering, and ability for plug-ins (shockwave, etc) for multimedia.
I DON'T want integrated email.
I DON'T want integrated HTML editor.
I DON'T want automatic upgrades.
I DON'T want channels, subscriptions, etc.
I DON'T want messaging, chat, etc.
I DON'T want fancy schmancy crap.
Just a SMALL, STABLE WEB BROWSER to view WEB PAGES. NOT some totally integrated internet appliance software or whatever. Think I better learn to program now. What's the best language to do this in? C++? C? FORTRAN? hehehe
I can't wait to get home to try it on my linux box and see how it rates...
btw, off-topic rant. I'm currently pissed as hell at Netscape for forcing longtime netscape web users to change their username just so they can merge all of their account IDs with the same bloated name space as AOL. That means, stupid usernames like joe235753 for example... :( I had "weave@netscape.net" and now they want to force me to give it up. So much for my "lifetime e-mail address."
Netscape 6 beta 1 is but the first branded Mozilla browser. It is based on Mozilla, as Stronghold and Red Hat Secure Server are based on Apache. It adds features, has it's own version of the UI (which is completely replacable, not just the pictures on the buttons)
Whatch out for more browsers based on the Mozilla core. Mozilla itself is aimed at the developer, but there will be 'easy' versions, kids versions, embedded versions, etc. Long live Mozilla!
You got it wrong last time with all the fuss about a discussion on security related bugs in bugzilla, instead presenting it as a decision. Please get your journalistic facts straight.
Martijn Pieters, Software Engineer
Digital Creations, Creators of Zope
"The truth shall make ye fret" -- The Truth, Terry Pratchett
Netscape 6.0 isn't the end of mozilla anymore than Red Hat 6.2 is the end of Linux. You know that :-)
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR1 /windows/win32/sea/NetscapeSetup.exe
It works from behind a socks/proxy!
-mark
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
Well, my Linux box is at home, and I have to use the NT4 Server here at work to test the build.. here're a few brief experiences so far:
Using the 260k installer, and only grabbing the executable and the (7 megs?!) Java2 stuff, the install went fairly speedily (45 mins) over a 56k connection (13mb in total, without any of the feedback agents, Net2Phone, etc). No reboots were necessary, which is a nice step up from the 4.x releases, and of course IE. (although IE, to be fair, 'upgrades' a lot of system files under Winx)
Ok, first run. No, thanks, I don't want to sign up to Netcenter. And yes, I really really don't want to. I'm sure you nice Netscape, er, AOL guys would never do anything bad with my name and email address, but I just want to browse.
Here it comes up, loading it is a bit faster than the 4.x tree. On we go to the Netcenter N6 page, ah, Dynamic HTML, finally implemented, nice moving 'Netscape' writing, fully selectable, etc. It's just eyecandy, but proves standards compliance. Wohoo!
On we go.. let's see how fast Yahoo loads, my 'bare-bones' example for comparing IE and Mozilla so far. Ok, it's fine, not as speedy as IE5, but it's not an 'integral part of the OS', is it?
Now the real test.. slashdot.org, loads fine, I enter my name - NO, I don't want you to remember my password, Moz.., er, Netscape - and on we go.
Ah. Hmm. Well, either Slashdot isn't regularly tested with Mozilla, or it's _supposed_ to look this way. Most of the 'spacing' between objects is gone, i.e. the banner at the top of the screen is now touching the actual page instead of having a bit of space between the two of them. Since I turned the icons off, the slashboxes are now vertically sligned against the very top of the actual page, whereas the 'default' page has the icons in the top right corner aligning the slashboxes with the rest of the main page at the top. Ah well, broken HTML it ain't (unless you try to validate it
[Side note: Copying text from Mozilla/N6 and pasting into Windows apps doesn't seem to work right now, neither using the right-click menu, nor the Edit menubar. Hmm. It lets me paste, but never copy. Especially since it blanks out the 'Paste' option after pasting, clearly thinking it has something buffered in the paste clipboard. Odd, but fixable.
Anyway, let's see what Netscape has to say about it on their main page. On we go, www.netscape.com... err.. crash. Hmm. Now, I'd have thought that they'd test their own homepage with their own browser? Nevermind, let's load it back up again - sigh, I didn't download the feedback client, so this bug will probably go unnoticed - and try it again.. and the page loads just fine. Odd. Very odd.
Anyway, let's have a look at the memory footprint.. task manager.. netscp6.exe..
29752k ??
I guess this is the memory footprint of a modern cutting-edge app.. but what were the two years of propaganda about 'small, fast app', 'efficient modular coding' etc. all about? I understand that IE5's memory usage (6megs right now) is partly due to the fact that a lot of its engine and parts are pre-loaded by the OS during startup.. and maybe under UNIX a lot of Netscape's code will reside in code already loaded by the X wm (widgets, etc).. but 30 megs? I just started the thing, it's not like hours of use have led it to leak memory like a bastard, accumulating dozens of megs of cached pages, etc, etc?
The actual netscape executable is 356k large, probably so it can start fast and give a speedy impression. The 'components' dir, full of to-be-loaded
And the 'theme'-ability (i.e. skins, etc) aren't even included! I even disabled the sidebar, and reduced most options like What's Related? and Internet Keywords to a minimum, so I'd have a bare-bones, speedy browser, and nothing else. I'm guessing that part of it is the Java2 stuff that's loaded at startup - but the memory usage still baffles me. If it preloads all it needs, I'd at least expect it to be as fast as IE, if not better, seeing how IE5 is at its core based on a browser MS bought from Spyglass which in turn was a rebranded NCSA Mosaic licensee from 5++ years ago. (Check 'About' in IE5 if you don't believe me.)
Ok, this is a pre-releases, still Alpha, not to be used widely, etc.. but seeing how the final
Ok, so in the time I needed to write this, (5 mins?) Netscape seems to have assimilated more memory for its personal needs. It now occupies 35 MB of RAM, and all I did to make it grow by 5 megs is to type some text in this textfield. Either it's doing funky stuff, or NT hates its guts. (and I'm waiting for people to post saying it's all NTs fault, and they've had Mozilla running on their 386 Linux boxes for months without crashes or memory problems
I'm sure this isn't the fault of Gecko, the rendering engine at its core, but the browser built around it seems to have a few architectural issues. I hope the Mozilla guys will be able to give it a swift kick in the pants before the Netscape6 release. Press coverage of a sluggish Netscape that doesn't match IE's capabilities would probably kill it off for good on non-UNIX platforms. I think I better go and kill off all Netscape-related processes now before it sucks up the remaining memory and I have to reboot the machine.
Apart from the memory issues, though, the Lizard seems to be a capable beast. Especially since this a pre-release do Slashdot Netscape's servers, grab the thing, and test it. With enough bugzilla reports, I'm sure the issues can be fixed in time for the release.
Alex T-B
PS: This post is coming to you courtesy of the fourth 'Submit' attempt. The Lizard keeps popping up a little box saying 'Connection refused by slashdot.org.. is that a HTTP error code. Which one? Please talk to me, Mozilla.
First of all, this is listed as Netscape 6 PR1, so its not gold or anything. Its just a prerelease version of there normal buggy .0 releae.
It looks just like mozilla m14. This should not come as a surprise to me, but I didn't know what to expect.
Does it leak memory? After an hour or so, three windows were using 45K of free memory, slowing my meager 64K laptop to lots of grinding.
Otherwise, despite the ugly N logo replacing the cute Mozillasoar, it looks pretty solid.
A final word about the integration. I have a netscape webmail account that uses the name "peteshaw". I stopped using it some time back when I accidentally posted it once on the usenet and found I was getting inunspamdated.
When I started up N6, it went through this whole routine told me that I would have to change my easy to remember name to something abstract and bizarre to satisfy its corporate renaming requirements. I think Netscape is merging the webmail name lists with AOL IM Service, which is integrated with Netscape IM. So now instead of "peteshaw" I need to come up with PeteShawSpankMyMonkey or something long and stupid.
So far its just annoying, but after trying 3 or 4 times to come up with a reasonable username, it gives me this error "Too many logins from this IP address, please wait 24 hours before logging on." On top of that, the only button I have to choose is marked "retry". What's a guy to do? Sit here staring at the retry button for 24 hours? It wasn't that hard to eventually work around, but its like ??????
So, needless to say I am skipping the netscape bundle of features for now, or at least for the next 24 hours. I might just stick with M14.
www.avacal.com -- the home page of pete shaw
This is the third time that slashdot has posted a story that got this wrong: Netscape 6 is NOT the final "Mozilla" browser. Netscape 6 incorporates some parts of the Mozilla efforts, but NS 6 is still a commercial product with proprietary code put out by Netscape Incorporated. Mozilla is not complete, and is still in testing. When it is finished, it will not be called "Netscape" anything, it will be "Mozilla." Please try to get this right.