Slashdot Mirror
Mozilla Milestone 15
[TWD]insomnia writes "Mozilla M15 is out on their FTP site. It seems already a bit faster than M14 and Netscape 6 PR1. " Not in woody yet (blatant hint ;)
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
Quite an OS you got there, if simply trying out a program can permanently damage it. You should try out new stuff with a restricted user account instead of as root.
2)when opening a new window, got to the current site not the home page Opening a new window is just like starting it up, so if you tell it to open the last page when it starts, it will do so with each new window..
www.ferretsoft.com
A consumer isn't going to confuse a web browser with a fictional character in a movie. It sounds to me that you have a beef with Americans, not Mozilla.
And who said all of the developers are American? How many electronic product designs (intellectual property) have the Japanese ripped off from the Americans? Huh?
If Tojo, Inc had any grounds to sue AOL/Netscape on, you can bet they would have already.
Here are some suggestions:
1)address completion/menu
Kind of a personal preference thing. I'm with you on the menu, but I hate address completion.
2)when opening a new window, got to the current site not the home page
Preferences.
1)make it possible to turn of cookies except from sites the user can list
It already does this.
2)the color scheme is ugly
You can change it. If you don't want to come up with your own skin, some very nice ones are already available (no URL's handy, sorry).
3)somehow make it load up faster
I imagine that once the debugging code is taken out, it will load up an order of magnitude faster (at least).
If you're that obsessed with speed, use lynx.
Beatch.
One of the most boring and useless arguements is that so-and-so is "biased" and therefore nothing they say is worthwhile. Argue on the merits of the article, not it's parent company affiliation. WinMag is respectable enough to take seriously.
Folks, it's time for a reality check and a little honesty with youselves about Mozilla and Netscape 6.
Mozilla is a disaster. It's ugly, slow and far too buggy to be released to anyone but developers, and the Mozilla team knows that. The bugs and missing features are well known - they don't require more reports from users to identify.
You can say the politically correct thing, or you can face reality. While the Mozilla project is independent of AOL in one sense, in another it's not. The product that most users expect and have been exposed to so far is a web browser - nothing more, nothing less. As a web browser it sucks. Forget about the "Gecko" rendering engine being superior and consider overall performance in which the Mozilla ui is the slowest I've ever used or seen and the most likely to crash.
I agree that in terms of "clean code" and more extensible code Mozilla is a great improvement over Netscape 4.x, and in terms of web standards it puts MSIE 5 to shame. That's not the point - these standards mean nothing to users, only to nerds and other developers.
While the development of the engine may need some independence from AOL and AOL allows that - because developers are happier and more productive when they have that freedom, AOL has no serious plans to challenge Microsoft in the browser market with Netscape 6. If they had such plans, we would now have a more usable browser and AOL would be making efforts to incorporate such a browser into its AOL client for Windows. AOL intends to maintain its agreement with Microsoft to use only the MSIE browser in its client for Windows users.
AOL does have plans to use the Mozilla engine in set-top devices and hand-helds and all kinds of appliances, but not in a client for desktop systems. That's Microsoft's turf. Folks, this is AOL - the same AOL you make fun of and despise for meeting the needs of AOLamers, as you call them, who use Windows. The AOL-Microsoft combination works well for millions (tens of millions) of users and they see little need to change that.
AOL will continue to make token Beta releases of its Netscape 6 browser for a while but will in the end just take it off life support. As for a broswer for Linux - Unix users, what is relesed will always be second rate and not as good as the version for Windows, which isn't saying much.
Perhaps the Gnome team can eventually take the Mozilla engine and build a decent browser for unix with an interface that works, but they are showing little interest in doing that. Why they haven't does puzzle me a lot.
I do know that the Kde browser is damned good and the upcoming Konquer is looking superb. This is a native unix product, designed by people who acutally use unix and not by a Windows oriented commercial entity like AOL-Netscape. I never cease to be amazed by the way knee-jerk zealots will praise out of one side of their mouths the great "open source" project that AOL-Mozilla is and out of the other mock and ridicule Joe and Jane user who are quite satisfied with AOL on the Windows platform, while pretending to ignore or write off as "peripheral" a truly native, open-source project like Kde. You will be in for a reality check once again with the beta release of Kde 2.0 next month - maybe six weeks. This far surpasses anything I've yet seen on a desktop anywhere, including Os2 Warp. Look out!
It's the codename for the unstable version of Debian.
It's interesting to note that the site you refer to is associated with Winmag.com. So, they probably do have a pro-microsoft bias (just like I'm biased against MS). Although the article does seem to take a fair tone.
Anyway, I agree. Prerelease software is not ready for prime time. Joe Idiot PC-owner should not be downloading and using this version. That's exactly what Netscape's site told me before I downloaded it. I don't think that it's fair to compare a product which is in the first of several beta releases with a final release. Just because there are bugs in the beta version doesn't mean that Mozilla is doomed. It doesn't mean that it will be the Next Big Thing, but I wouldn't panic either. My experience with Mozilla is that each milestone is much more stable and usable than the preceeding one. I am very confident that the Mozilla folks will release a final, stable product. Whether or not that product will be what I want (i.e. a good web browser) or something else (a tool for developing cross platform UIs in JS and XML) remains to be seen. Personally, I'd find it pretty ironic if Mozilla's greatest contribution was XUL instead of the browser itself. And that may very well be the case. We shouldn't have to wait long to see how the browser turns out, but seeing if XUL amounts to anything outside of Mozilla may have to wait a bit longer.
-Doug
I see a better way then. Have what it opens to be fully configurable (you choose default: homepage, blankpage, or currentpage), but also allow the new window to inherit the history one step behind (at your discretion [this is configurable too]). Best of both worlds. Any other reasons?
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
Works for me. And I remember looking at the bug list, and that they had fixed that "bug".
D'oh! You're right. I tried it again and it does indeed work. Cool!
As for the rest of your problems, some of them I've seen bug reports on, but some I haven't. But hte best thing for anyone with problems to do is to go
to bugzilla.mozilla.org and report the bug there. Complaining on Slashdot will get you nothing, even if it does feel good to vent.
Yeah... I think I'll do exactly that after I've been using it a little longer. Thanks!
> Netscape blows.
Yeah it does, but at least it's open source now. And you can use it on an operating system that doesn't have to be rebooted every 38 seconds, has a hideous registry system, and the most horrible GUI on the face of the earth!
Surfing around relentlessly. Linux version of course. Not a single crash yet, and they fixed the bad HTTP authentication password bug that plagued M14. Good job! Everything seem to render well also.
But there are still a few minor details. I can surf with it now, but fixing these would make it infinitely nicer. And I probably won't rpm -e netscape until they're fixed.
1. The Alt-arrow keys for page forward/backward don't seem to work
2. When pressing BACK, it ALWAYS reloads the previous page from the network. That's ridiculous, and slow. Yes, I do have cache turned on and a directory set.
3. When opening link in new window (via the pop up window) and then closing that window, the up/down arrow keys do NOT work on the original page you were at until you click on a link to move to another page. The scrollbar works fine.
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
5. Sometimes silly things don't work like when I click the "Pricewatch" link on Slashdot's slash box. Hmmm.
Nevertheless, this is the first milestone I may actually use for a signifcant portion of my browsing. Good work!
> why don't they make the GUI skinnable?
I believe what you're after is ChromeZone.
Mozilla is much more than just skinnable. Read up on XUL for more information.
You mean throwing out the old crufty architecture and rewriting from scratch isn't "something new and different?" Think about it. A beta of a product that's an incremental change from the older version of the product is going to tend to be less buggy than a "beta" of a total rewrite. The fewer changes that are made, the fewer *new* things that can go wrong.
AFAIK, I don't think that Mozilla's even gotten to beta yet, at least not as far as Mozilla's developers are concerned.
Unfortunately the bug I'm waiting on seems to be lost in the wilderness, with nobody really knowing how to fix it. The problem is NTLM authentication, some proprietary means which Microsoft's Proxy Server uses to identify clients. I gather that Netscape never supported this, nor does Mozilla (does anything other than IE?), so I can't test it out with my neat work net connection.
Great to see that despite antitrust trials and whatnot, Microsoft can still spanner Mozilla's works for myself and anyone else in the same situation.
Oh well, downloading M15 to at least view a few local pages (hey I found one bug that way, which was fixed in a couple of hours, big kudos to the Mozilla team..)
PR1 is a daily build of M14, with a lot of crap thrown in by AOL. Stick with milestones, unless you really *need* instant messenger, an "N" in the throbberinstead of the M/lizard, and all the other junk.
If only "common" sense was actually that common...
You ave used te devil's letter ('H') in your post. Please refrain from using tis letter in te future. A corrected version of your post follows:
--Pil (I figured turnabout was fair play.)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
>I understand that this is still a preview, but no-one should release
>software this broken to anyone except developers. Many end users have
>tried Preview 6 and they are never coming back. Its not just bad for
>developers - for a large number of users this will be their first,
>and sadly their last, foray into Open Source software.
And who really cares all that much? "Open Source software" as you use the term never really had any intention to attract these kind of people/end users. In fact, one could say it's driven in part by an real desire to get away from them and people like you.
>Get over it already. Japan is famous for stealing great ideas and even
>inventions from the West and commercializing them, so what's the big
>deal with the US borrowing some stupid dinosaur icon from Japan? BIG
>DEAL.
And with the new Japanese 'Zilla moive coming out (it's going to be a guy in a rubber suit, yeah!) think of all the extra attention Mozilla would recieve.
>One of the most boring and useless arguements is that so-and-so is
>"biased" and therefore nothing they say is worthwhile. Argue on the
>merits of the article, not it's parent company affiliation. WinMag is
>respectable enough to take seriously.
Respected by who? Windows users? That's pretty much the only bunch who take anything these Windows-focused rags have to say seriously. They are also the only ones dumb enough to buy them. I rather doubt a Mac or Unix user will find anything of real value in a Windows publication.
>All this discussion on whether Winmag would be biased against NS 6 is
>ridiculous because they gave it a glowing review. The article
>discussed the preview release at length, calling it a "revolution" and
>lauding both its features and Netscape's desicion to use an
>open-source design model.
Bah. Talk to OS/2 and Amiga users before you call this a favorable review of NS6. This is exactly the kind of stunt pro-microsoft mags like Winmag pulled with both OS/2 and the Amiga and Atari ST computers. They damned them with faint praise and awarded the Microsoft product their "Editor Choice" (or whatever the particular mag called it) Award. Draw your own conclusions from this.
>And don't forget the fact that they threw out good usability/UI
>design principles out the door.
This should have been done years ago. These "principles" have brought nothing but buggy and bloated software and created a industry full of stuck-up pricks like yourself.
>I have hope, but I'm not holding my breath. When someone is beta, you
>can't really judge it too much - but you can judge the priorities the
>developers hold, and those working on Mozilla have got it WAY off.
>I'd much rather they had just given up on the Mac than embarassed
>themselves with the non-native UI.
A shame the mozilla developers priorities aren't the same as yours isn't it. A *REAL* damned shame. I'm being saracastic here.
Well, so Tojo Inc. invented dinosaurs, right? Oh well, and these fossils were actually secretly planted over there by workers of Tojo Inc. just to promote the trademark and now archeological museums should pay Tojo, Inc. for it too?
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Aren't trade marks only relevant if both products are in the same market? If Microsoft's next piece of software had the same name as model of milking machinery, wouldn't that be okay under the law? They don't dilute each other's brand name as they're not competing in the same market.
A media dinosaur that appeared in many badly dubbed Japanese films versus the mascot of a web browser... I'm a consumer and I'm not confused. Maybe there are problems with it in other countries, but not here... perhaps it should carry a different name there (it wouldn't be the first product to have different name in a different country). Does Tojo, Inc sell software? I haven't heard of them before (maybe I'm ignorant). I don't think they're a household name around here and thus there is no confusion.
Wasn't "Mozilla" loosely based on "Mosaic Killer", the other main browser that was around when Netscape started? Irony of that is that I believe Internet Explorer is based on Mosaic, or technology licensed from the NCSA. Perhaps when they hit on the name Mozilla they decided a dinosaur would be cool, cashing in on the geekiness of Godzilla over here.
No, Mozilla is scheduled enter alpha status with M16 when it will be feature complete. Then all that is left is a large amount of bugchasing.
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
Can't get rid of the sidebar, huh? What's wrong with just unselecting "Sidebar" from the "View" menu? It's the first thing I did when I got M14. Works fine for me. BTW, this is with the Win32 version I have in front of me. From memory, the Unix version is all but identical. As for the buttons being too large, just download (or write) a different theme.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
The problem with this (as I've been finding out) is that you currently need to quit the browser and restart it with different arguments to change the chrome. Since I'm stuck with having to use the Win32 version at work, that's a real pain. Yes, I suppose I could launch it from a DOS box, but that's more effort that I want to expend. Maybe I'm just too lazy...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
OK, so I'm biting an amusing troll...
Mozilla was the original name of the Netscape web browser before Netscape became a household name. It was chosen to be a "Mosaic Killer" - hence, Mozilla. Netscape's HTTP header still calls the browser Mozilla.
The full story, and other amusing Netscape trivia, can be found on jwz's site.
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
(ob-see-kwi-us) adj. excessively or sickeningly respectful.
There isn't anything to be gained by ripping apart Mozilla. It's the most high profile closed-to-open source project there is, and it's a poster boy for open source, like it or not. But for what passes as a pack of hungry wolves on most every subject here on /., Mozilla brings out the damndest bunch of apologist weenies I've ever seen.
Mozilla is big, behind schedule, unstable, and now developed by mostly AOL employees (sorry guys, but face the facts). Sounds like Windows almost, doesn't it? Yet everybody is so willing to prop this baby up and say it will. Well, cut the future tense crap.
Honesty. Do you use Mozilla for your daily browser under Linux? Have you contributed patches? If not, stop making excuses.
What the Mozilla project needs is a healthy dose of reality.
It would help the Mozilla team find the cause of the bug (they can't reproduce it on their setup) if you could add additional information about the setup of your machine (i.e. what graphics cards you have installed, etc) - also mention that you're using M15 rather than a nightly build.
The link for the bug is http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_ bug.cgi?id=36239 please register a bugzilla account and add your comments.
--
Make use of your spare CPU time!
...to be passed from session to session. This doesn't seem much to ask. New windows should be able to inherit something.
It would also be nice to be able to over-ride these lame sites which open new windows whenever they link to another site. It's such a stupid way to keep you on their site. We all know how to go back to their site if we want to. It's almost like they're assuming we would never want to.
Another thing I've always thought would be cool would be a "sideways" back function. I frequently find myself going back and forth between two branches of a web-site structure. As I get further out on the two branches, I have to use more and more alt-(or meta-)left-arrow-key clicks to get back to the point where they diverged.
Alt-up-arrow and alt-down-arrow could be used to go more quickly between them (if the history was stored as something more than a linear sequence of pages).
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I don't think it should be automatic that such sleazy gimmicks be over-ridden. I'd just like the option, especially when you're talking about a resource-hog like a browser (I hope Mozilla won't be), to not have a web link open a new process or new window or a new browser or whatever.
I think it's safe to assume that someone who is editing advanced options like do-not-open-new-window-for-links would know what the back button was. If the designers don't think so, they could always have a little pop-up warning box ("Do not activate this unless you know how to use the back button or alt-arrow-left -- [C]ancel, [O]K").
And I'm not sure any of the lame sites that use this have any thought of making it easier on newbies. They just want to take advantage of them.
And you know what? I don't think it works. I think this kind of gimmick offends (or at least bothers) newbies as much as anybody.
Further, I suspect this part of the protocol was originally intended for some useful purpose where spawning new browsers would actually be a good thing. But I've never seen such a purpose implemented. If someone has actually come up with a good and valid reason for it, this would be a much better reason not to implement my idea than the fact that there are people who don't know what a back button does.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Well, it might just go into both. There are some release-critical bugs against Mozilla in Potato. I.e., these bugs would either hold up Potato's release or prevent Mozilla from being included.
This release may fix them.
Why can't I have a web browser that looks like all my other applications? Why is it so necessary that it stand out? Sure, the ability to customize an application to suit your needs is a neat feature. But it really bothers me that ALL of my other menu bars are grey, and Mozilla's is white.
... all those apps that we use every day each start supporting their own interface skins. Moreover, they each come with a default skin that is different from all the others, in an attempt to stick out. That now means that if I want all my apps to look similar, I have to search through and download skins all day until I find one that is suitable and matches all the others. And I have to do that for EVERY application on my hard drive. That could take some time.
Consider this situation. Word, Wordperfect, Quattro Pro, Excel, Mirc,
So please just give me back the NS4.7 interface. I don't care what my browser looks like, so long as it isn't ugly and it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. And I certainly don't want a browser that looks like a web page.
Middle Mouse Button Works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bout F???ing time!!!!!
;)
Your Working Boy,
If you moderated this as redundant and just noticed a karma hit, it's because I just metamoderated it as unfair.
At the time this was posted only one other post had inquired as to the menaing of "woody", post #7, and only 5 minutes earlier.
#7 could easily not have been up yet when this person loaded the page and I don't they should take a karma hit for it.
Especially since there were so many other replies posted to this story that are much more deserving candidates for downward moderation.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Actually, yes they are already in beta. The first beta was forked to make Netscape 6 PR1, the second beta is upcoming.
cool, xmlterm is finally included. xmlterm seems like a really neat project, check it out at http://www.xmlterm.org/. i wish there was a way to build it though without having to build the whole mozilla source tree. rpms are available at the website, but they didn't work too well with m14. this build seems to have a good bit of functionality though. keep up the good work.
Whine whine, bitch bitch and bitch. Bitch bitch, whine whine, bitch.
Moan and piss. Piss and moan.
Bitch and complain and whine. I want my money back. Why don't you just use IE5 like a normal person you retard? Freak! (Points finger and makes Body Snatchers alert sound.)
What's taking so long? Complain. Moan and whine. Why doesn't ActiveX work? Piss and bitch.
Why can't I convince you all to just use IE5? It really really is better! Really.
Goddammit just use IE5! I told you to use IE5! You assholes! Use IE5!
Bitch bitch, moan and complain.
Oops. Sorry I have to stop now. I just installed a bugfix to IE5 and I have to reboot. Don't you just love to reboot? I do. I gives me time to run to the kitchen and grab a snack.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
I built it from a nightly source tarball a week back and it ran well when I transported my distribution to another Redhat 6 box and unpacked it. I did not, however, manage to get a copy of the "simplebrowser" executable built. Anyone know how to make sure it gets made?
Fuck Slashdot
I'd cringe if my browser went to the same page when I open a new window. 99% of the times I open a new window to go somewhere else while leaving the other page open; I have netscape configured not to load anything initially, so I get a new *empty* window where I can type or paste an URL or go to a bookmark. if your "home portal" takes your precious time, turn the damn thing off! you can always click on "home" when you want to go there.
Actually, no they aren't. See Mozilla.org's plans for beta, which are very distinct from Netscape's. The "beta1" stuff in bugzilla referred to the Netscape beta. Mozilla does not have a beta yet and it's not clear whether they will call any release a "beta" as such, due to confusion about what the word actually means.
Stuart.
Let me add one --
4) Make the Backspace key act like the back button.
Why? No reason, except the backspace key is big and doesn't require me to press a modifier. And IE muscle memory, of course.
(Netscape PR1 does nothing with BackSpace. NS 4.x does a Page Up!?)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Thanks for the reply. I'll just have to hope for a more flat and simple skin to support my 'featuritus' disease!
Either that or dig in and roll my own. (I wonder how hard it would be to create a MS Word-like toolbar/menu editor in XUL...)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Hmmm, I showed around M14 at the office, and the most common comment from the WinUsers was that the UI (or 'skin') was too simple. No dropdowns on the back and forward buttons, no customizable toolbar, right-clicking doesn't work much of the time and so on. Not to mention my dreams of "Disable/Enable JavaScript" buttons and the like. (I have to admit I am a horrible user -- I have 3x the normal buttons my MS Word toolbars and like it that way.)
If the current, simple skin is too complex to be rendered quickly, how are you going to build up the UI? I know that the panels are a solution for certain things like Radio and so on, but there's lots of room for featuritus on the skin itself.
There's already talk in the Mac community to write a native container to host the Mozilla rendering engine. (Well, you guys have got the menubar in the wrong place on a platform of very anal users, what do you expect?). I'm wondering if the native container approach is being seriously considered for the major platforms (Windows, Mac, X11), and 'skins' be left as a feature to be exercised by third parties.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
One of the changes in M15 that I am happy to see, is the ability to block images from arbitrary sites directly from the browser.
All you have to do is right-click on an image, select "Block Image from Loading" (which apparently should read 'Block all images from the site this image came from') and reload. It works great for for blocking banner ads from adforce, doubleclick, etc!
You can edit the list of blocked sites in preferences:advanced:cookies and images. Hopefully there will be a way to automatically import a bunch of junkbuster-like rules in future versions.
One off-topic criticism- Checkboxes on Mozilla look (in their unchecked state) like they are depressed buttons, which is confusing.
Be Well,
-OT
Aughhhhhhh! It still insists on having a Sidebar, even though I really don't want one. I remove it with the option int he View menu, and then it's back the next time. I don't know how to remove this. I've looked at the preferences files, but I didn't see anything. Other than that, it looks pretty great, guys.
Switch the . and the @ to email me.
All I can say is wow!
I wasn't really that impressed with M14, preferences were slow, menus took forever to pop up, etc... The Netscape 6 preview seemed to be more of the same, it didn't bring much new (noticeably) stuff to the table.
But this...
Wow!
Pages load up insanely quickly, almost seems faster than Netscape 4.72 (on an Athlon 600 running Mandrake 6.1). Preferences are noticeably quicker, although there is still a black "screen" when I change from one preference screen to another.
And it hasn't crashed yet, 4.72 just seemed to crash whenever, even on a page without Java or Javascript. And the menus pop up and move really nicely.
I cannot wait for M16, or the beta. This is gonna kick ass when they're "done."
If you do that, please make it available to the world!
I'd build my own mozilla, turning off all debug, turning on full optimisations, and turning off all but the composer and browser, but I haven't the disk space necessary for the build!
Wow. It's MUCH faster thatn M14 or Netscape 6PR1.
I like the changed icons for the bookmarks and what's new sidebar things. Now only if all of the javascript stuff would work again. (like popup menus on pages like www.zend.com)
For me, I think, Moz's finally reached the point of usability? Why? The click on link with middle button to open in a new window shortcut finally works! That feature is the one I've been waiting for--it's the one I've missed using every other Moz build, and every other browser on every other platform. I'm happy now.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Heck, I'm using Netscape Mozilla PR1 and find it to be more stable than Communicator 4.72 on the same machine. It is sometimes more responsive (depends on operation) and looks a darn sight better/more readable (it really puts my TrueType fonts to good use).
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
I don't know about 1 and 2 but for the rest, these are already implemented.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
IIRC from the last thread when NS PR1 came out it was stated that DHTML is different because in Mozilla it is based strictly on the W3C standard while NS 4.x and IE have made their proprietary extentions and only have part of the DHTML standard supported. Mozilla is more standards compliant, on all fronts, but this breaks backwards compatability on many pages, the upside is that once they are coded around the actual standard (who woulda' thunk?) this kind of thing won't happen again.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
Uh, maybe I'm doing something wrong (like using the Win32 version ;-)), but www.gmx.de renders perfectly well for me in M15...
I've yet to get the Linux version home to try it out (forced to use NT at work...), but under Windows at least, the page looks fine (and it renders damn fast, too)
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
There are some things that I miss and I'm sure other users will miss too...
* URL auto-completion
* URL history dropdown
* Keyboard Navigation
I'm just wondering if these features will ever appear in mozilla, people have gotten used to them in IE and Netscape. Any mozilla coders out there?
Sounds like you're running Win32. At work it's required for our apps, so I feel your pain.
A solution: Just launch a new window from the icon. In other words, click the icon on your desktop, and it will open to your start window (which, on my system, is blank)
Hope this helps a fellow traveler consigned to M$ hell at work.
hanzie.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
It's a _big_ improvement over M14 - sidebar MUCH improved, scrolling is smoother, disk cache works, and - my favorite - they added XMLTerm, a terminal emulator in XML. It's a bit slow, but boy, is it fun.
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
woody is the current unstable Debian distro (2.3).
Okay, true, I was assuming woody will be 2.3. But potato already has the number 2.2.
I was quite impressed with the speed of the Gecko engin in the last few releases. I must admit though that I still do not use it as my main browser (although I find myself using it more and more).
The Main question is to see if this browser is to become good enough so people will break their habit of using IE to go and take tiem to download another browser...
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"
Funnily enough, woody is being updated less frequently than potato atm while they whack off a bit and otherwise procrastinate about renaming the directory "stable".
--
Matt
Matt
Hmm, maybe if I download the source and compile M15 with pgcc (with '-march=pentiumpro -mcpu=pentiumpro -Os', or maybe -O9 instead of -Os) it could be as fast as it's supposed to.
Anyways, congrats to the people at mozilla.org, and I hope it's as stable as IE right now (that's right, this is being written in Windows since I can't handle Netscape 4 bringing down X with it all the time)
Maybe this weekend I'll install it (after taking the pointless standardized tests the state's making me take)
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
Yes, it's unstable and slow. But imho, it shows real promise. All the important things are working. I've got good hopes on this being best browser out there, at least as soon as I manage to get only bookmarks and html rendering and am able to kick all the rest out, but that's possible I think, I read something about that anyway.... Have to look into that some day soon...
To be honest.. I don't remember anymore. :-) phi1 (mighta been phi10 or phi1o), a /. user, said that a while ago in a comment.
:-)
I loved it
Exactly. As is the same with /. Yet, browsers are expected to grok this utter shit.
Here we all are, hooting and cheering that we finally have a Standards Complying browser.. Well guess what, people don't write code to those same Standards. Some WYSIWYG editors don't make 100% compliant code.
And yet, it's still expected to display all these things. Should we really expect Mozilla to render bad HTML? I'm amazed it does. Building a web browser is a fairly thankless job. Here's to hoping with better browsers, people will take incentive to write better code.
Maby it's just me but with M15 clicking the back button brings me to the previous page much faster than it has ever in Mozilla before. Not as fast as IE yet but much much better.
It's available in public CVS. Always has been. It doesn't get much more available than that.
-zack
Where are the crypto enabled builds? Or they already crypto enabled? Why arn't all nightlies enabled yet? When I mean enabled I mean containing the hooks, I release you still have to download the crypto seperatly.
Wierd Al's music qualifies as a parody, and you can parody anything and anyone, for free.
You can parody anything you want, for free. The right to parody, though, does not extend to performance of the work of another.
When a radio station plays a song, they are supposed to pay a fee to the songwriter(s) for having used that song in their own performance, the radio show. If that song is "Beat It" by Michael Jackson, and both the words and music were written by Jackson, then he would receive the full fee (ostensibly, that is. This is a simplistic explanation of the much more complex system operated by BMI and ASCAP).
If, however, the song were "Eat It", then the words are by Weird Al and music is by Jackson. BOTH would benefit from the fees. So, by default, any performance of the parody, unless musically and lyrically unique, would provide financial benefit to the songwriter.
There are fees for public performance, radio play, television play, partial play and even use as a theme song. Different uses have different fees.
Rush Limbaugh had to deal with this issue last year. Chrissy Hynde of The Pretenders had apparently gotten upset, finally, about his use of one of her songs as a theme. He'd been paying his fees, but word came through that she didn't like it, so he quit using it.
The minor scandal lasted a few days, until Chrissy, in an interview, said she wouldn't mind him using the song if he would give all the fees to animal rights charities or some fluff like that. Rush immediately started playing the song again, and resumed payment of royalties through the normal channels.
Rush didn't have the option of paying the money to the charities. The law, and the company representing Chrissy, require payment to the company (BMI or ASCAP, again) and then Chrissy can do whatever the Hell she wants to with the money.
Likewise, Jackson may not like the parody (he does, for the record), but since he still gets financial rewards, he's covered legally.
paperbacks.homepage.com
Visit Lockjaw's Lair. He won't bite.
The UI, if it's built all with browser components, is VERY complex, but it doesn't have all the features we've come to expect, so in a way, it is simplistic (ie, forcing you to use the menus and buttons instead of shortcuts, etc.)
And in many ways, it's too complex. If I look at a page side-by-side in N6 and N4.5, N6 wastes *so* much screen space, with those big ugly buttons (sorry) and the sidebar you can't get rid of, and the extra bar at the bottom.
That and that N6 uses weird spacing compared to N4.5, such that many pages I viewed seemed to have 1.5 lines between text instead of one. And N6 uses huge fonts in some cases.
www.arstechnica.com - looks like it's in 640x480 it's so huge
www.anandtech.com - the search boxes/etc are screwed up
Those are just the two most obvious examples.
If N6 could be made to look exactly like N4.5 with the exception of a new logo in the corner, and to render pages nearly identically, I'd switch, *now*.
btw, the java at the Soda constructor site and a few others refused to work, but it was turned on, and it worked in 4.5, so I dunno what's up.
I reported this and a few other actual bugs, what I'm talking about here for the most part is features that I don't like, not 'bugs'...
The mozilla port to SGI is still very broken (and has been for more than six months since the SGI maintainer took off). That's disappointing since my box at work is an O2. But get this: I just downloaded the Linux M15 and ran it on a linux box displayed remotely on my SGI. Mozilla remote is FASTER than Netscape 4.7 running locally. Sheesh. Mozilla seems very nice despite the minor cosmetic bugs. If the SGI port worked minimally, I would join in the hacking effort.
It appears that the main problems with the SGI port are in the assembly code in the xpcom module. That, of course, is the heart of the port. I've seen posts on the Mozilla newsgroups from SGI management saying that they would like to make the SGI mozilla port a priority, but it seems that hasn't happened. Personally, I'm undecided about whether I'd rather see SGI programmers working on Netscape or on XFS for Linux, etc. I'm probably going to switching to a Linux box in the near future anyway. So the big question is whether less common boxes like SGIs will eventually join the future of software like Mozilla or if they will become like the Amiga or the NeXT: Loved by those who like their unique software but loathed by those who have gotten used to software on other boxes.
So what's the story on BeZilla? I haven't heard anything about it in awhile, and I just started using BeOS again. NetPositive is alright, but it doesn't render a whole lot of pages correctly, and I can't *stand* Opera.
Damn straight! My mouse wheel STILL doesn't work
Are you running imwheel? If so, try not running it - the mouse wheel works in enough Linux programs now that it's not necessary anymore. It works fine in most GTK programs (since it's supported natively by the toolkit) and works great in Mozilla. But it won't work in Mozilla if you have imwheel running.
Can someone please tell me how to make a GNOME launcher for Mozilla?
/path/to/mozilla/package && ./run-mozilla.sh
Easy - create a shell script that contains:
#!/bin/bash
cd
Now point the gnome launcher to the shell script (don't forget to "chmod +x" the shell script first)
Many programs, less for example, uses space for page down (and "b" for page up) and I bet many other people are also used to that.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
I run my Linux with an Alpha processor. I don't know if this makes such a difference... But anyway, I have been running Mozilla since M12, and, while I can't deny it looks miles ahead than Netscape on my Intel boxes, it simply sucks... Every milestone it sucks less, but anyway, Mozilla loves crashing. As Netscape is not available for Alpha (or at least, I was not able to find it), I had to settle for this second best. Well, it did just not work out. It is way too unstable, and for people like me who open 10 browser windows and have interesting/important stuff in all of them, having the browser suddenly die is just not an option.
I am a GNOME person. I dislike KDE, and I'd rather not have Qt installed on my computer. However, the only alternative I had to get my browsing without losing my liver were to install KDE and use KFM as a browser. So far so good, does not crash often (although, of course, it does).
Does someone use an Alpha? What do you use for browsing?
/me points to the fact that mozilla is BETA
Just another piece of evidence that open source critics are illiterate.
If you can't figure out my address, just drop me an e-mail and I will explain.
Do I need to point out how buggy Windows 98 Beta, and NT 2000 Betas were?
Or maybe I could just ask you what operating system/web server www.payyobillz.com runs on?
Is it WindowsNT/(2000)?
Just a guess, but it is probably running on a Linux or *BSD box.
So I suppose yout web site doesn't work either.
If you can't figure out my address, just drop me an e-mail and I will explain.
Damn straight! My mouse wheel STILL doesn't work. (Works everywhere else, just not in Mozilla. (Yes it an MS-mouse.)) The mail client in NS6p1 is excrutiatingly sluggish. The widgets lack consistent rightclickability. (I still think rolling their own widgets was a bad call.)
Hell, they've had 2 years to make their HTML render engine, said it was the best thing on the block, and I still find major bugs in it. (namely text overlaying graphics and tables that get duplicated).
I REALLY want an opensource browser, but this is just becoming a debacle.
this is under NT. :(
:/
Average uptime 2 days 14 hours 49 minutes.
You misunderstand. It saves the settings to the local disk. Storing it at AOL/netscape/etc would not only be insecure, but slow, busy (millions of users) and redundant.
"I've lost a 2 year mailbox to mozilla"
Doh!
Does the linux M15 build work with encryption? The M14 required a special build to work with crypto, and the crypto FAQ hasn't been updated in a while.
WinMag is respectable enough to take seriously.
respectable enough to take a review of a beta project and say it should die a quiet death?
And how can they not be biased, most people are biased for the things they know well and understand, Windows Magazine.. Count the pages per issue that contain MS ads and tell me they are unbiased.
--
+&x
Here's what I've done:
Create a file on your PC named "my_home.html".
Open "my_home.html" in Netscape, go to the preferences, and choose "Use Current Page" for your home page.
Edit "my_home.html", create a table four columns wide, and fill the table cells with links for the following:
- Your favorite web pages (this will duplicate some bookmarks).
- The "bookmarks.html" file.
- The "my_home.html" file.
- Your home firectory.
- The top ("/" or 'C:") directory.
- Any files you frequently want to view.
If the list of file links grows beyond one screen, then start a second level of index files (e.g. my_howtos.html, pgm_x_source, etc.), and put links to those index files in the "my_home" page.
Now, hitting "Home" opens the "my_home.html" page, it's just as fast as a blank page, it clears out any frames, you can make it the color of your choice, and it has the links you want without even using the bookmarks. Also, you can view any file or directory on your system in just a few clicks.
When you want to update your "my_home" or secondary index pages, it's very convenient: simply hit "Home", then right click on the link you want, and choose "Open in Composer" (even if you don't like Composer, it works fine for this purpose).
One last suggestion. If you are using Netscape under Windows, then you can add links in Composer by simply dragging a link, or the location icon, from a browser window. Unfortunately, it doesn't work in the Linux version (maybe Mozilla will eventually provide this), so you've got to get more creative with right-click and "Copy Link Location". I don't remember if you can also create file links by dragging files from the Windows file manager, but try it.
I think it's useful because when you open the new window it inherits your history...so that when you press back you go back...
HTML Validation Service Results:
Document Checked: URI: http://www.gmx.de/
Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser.
Sorry, this document does not validate as HTML.
There's one in every crowd, eh?
I personally _hate_ how IE goes to the current page when you open up a new window. What if you currently happen to be on the result page of submitting an credit card order or something? There are some sites, such as moviefone.com, which will sit there for up to 2 minutes waiting to contact the theater you're buying a ticket for and finally will add to the page that the order has been finalized. While presumably an already loaded result page will simply be passed over to the new window without reloading, what would happen in the case of pages similar to this moviefone.com page where the page is not yet complete? I know it's possible for this to work safely, but I don't necessarily trust that it will be implement correctly, and I don't really see the point. Why would you want two copies of the same page, anyway? Opening links in a new window performs this function better.
Then again, I hate when a web browser goes to any page at all by default. I've always used "start with a blank page" in Netscape and Mozilla. I'm a bit annoyed when programs do things for me automatically that usually aren't correct. For the same reason, I don't like automatic name completion.
If anything, these should be configurable, _easily_ (yeah, yeah, "go edit the source you lazy ass!").
hey, just because mozilla isn't stable enough to handle all those popups while you're looking for porn doesn't mean all the rest of us need to hear it!
(it's funny - laugh. please. no, not the "troll" moderation. PLEASE!)
-- Imagine how much more advanced our technology would be if we had eight fingers per hand.
According to Ian Hickson, image alt text is supposed to be displayed as normal text, with nothing distinguishing it from page text, unless the page specifies how broken images are supposed to be displayed.
Umm, I don't know who the hell Ian Hickson is, but according to the W3C IMG definition, alt text is "rendered when the image cannot be displayed." That definately doesn't sound like it should be displayed all the time, which is just silly.
. Very few webpages with broken or slashdotted images look good in mozilla as a result, and layout is completely messed up even when width= and height= are specified
This isn't because Gecko is off spec, it's because we're used to programming for browsers that don't conform to spec. Gecko passes (with flying colors) ALL of the tests the W3C setup to test browser compliance. If an HTML document is compliant, then Gecko/Mozilla will display it according to spec. If you don't believe me, then read the spec yourself.
- Rev.This is my pet peeve with IE5 and the reason that I'm looking forward to Mozilla reaching the big time. When I want to open a new window, I want it blank - it's so much quicker than having to render the previous page.
There are loads of nice little features in IE5 that I hope make it to Mozilla. I love the autocompletion that drops down a list of options in all boxes. Makes my life just a bit easier, and means that I don't need to remember URLs or have to hunt through a long list of bookmarks.
The funny thing about trolls is that it's hard to denigrate them when they're funny... and other people buy it. This guy doesn't have a beef with anyone, except, perhaps, the gullible.
*sigh* I guess this is what happens when people post drunk.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
If you want some different icons try over at The Chromezone. Actually they haven't updated the page in a while, but the newer icons are up at my page.
Of course not! But they wouldn't be adding a new Alpha version of a web browser to a frozen distribution.
So while they continue to work the kinks out of Potato, they can add fun things like M15 and NS6 to Woody.
God Fucking Damnit
ypocrite! Not only do you ave te devil's letter in bot te te topic and signiture, but in your NAME!
God Fucking Damnit
"The point of good compilers is world domination. The point of not-so-good compilers is to serve quality coffee at an affordable price. Any questions? - phi1"
/have/ to know where that quote is from!
Ok, I
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Check out the new chrome zone at mozillazine.org. The Sullivan chrome from Alphanumerica is an eye opener.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
Another favourite hate object of mine is xmms, which stubbornly fails to obey my window manager preferences.
Just whining, perhaps somebody will make a nice chrome to make mozilla look unchromed.
Opinions expressed above are mine, and not my employees'.
I assumed that everybody knew that Mozilla was a play on Godzilla. It's not really plagiarism since the Godzilla movies and the Mozilla project are completely different products.
Come on, movies like Space Balls and Hot Shots are more plagiarism than this, and no one sued them.
The correct term you are looking for is "parallelism" which is legal (precedents set by Weird Al lawsuits), where one product is clearly not a direct competetor but an extention to an existing product.
I think you're about the only person that would argue that movies and a web browser are similar products, and thus, would "confuse" consumers.
You are also very late in complaining. Netscape has been using the Mozilla engine for almost a decade.
Does this thing really think I want to send all the forms I fill out to AOL/Netscape/Time-Warner to keep safe for me? And over an insecure connection?
Maybe I just misunderstand the option, but it smells of fish.
Zax
-- We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms.
What OS are you running? On my WIn2k desktop, I have the Logitech SW installed, so I am not surprised that the wheel on ym Mouse Man + works fine. But on a WIn95 box, the wheel didn't work on a MS mouse, and that was probably due to the old crappy MS wheel mouse software, which originally did not work in many application, just MS ones (surprise!).
matt
My biggest gripe about Mozilla is that the source to the latest milestone's hasn't been available anywhere.
If you go to the source download page the latested tagged version of the source is M13, no 14, and no 15...
Still apart from that its a good browser, thats only going to get better.
Steve
This is ridculous. Whenever Rob wants the latest version of package X rolled into a .deb, he just has to drop a hint somewhere...
What about the rest of us?
Fixing copyright
is decent printing. Right now you cannot even print off email! I probaly print a couple emails a day. I _need_ to be able to print. For some reason the bug to fix printing has been pushed back to M20! How can you expect anyone to be able to 'full-time' test a webbrowser/mail client that cannot print? Even pages without frames get completely mangled. *sigh*
There is no announces about "what's new".
Are they going to support LDAP?
"Directory" menu item in the Address book is still disabled:(
IMAP is wonderful but LDAP is a must for corporate networks.
that might be true if IE5.5 were trying to do something new and different...
...which it is of course not.
1) autocomplete is coming Real Soon Now (and not just in the urlbar!)
6 9
2) good idea! RFE bug filed against me:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=362
Yes, you're right, the current theme wastes space terribly. This is something I hope to sort out in a 4.x-style skin. Expect to see one hot on the heels of skinnability and skin-switching.
I would personally like to reintegrate the task switcher into the status bar like 4.x and ditch the Taskbar.
Note also that the Alphanumerica apps aren't themes or skins for Mozilla, they're completely different applications.
;) Skins, having no access to these things, are 'safe' (it is possible of course that someone could make a DoS skin with black-on-black, but we plan to have a timed evaluation period for skin application such that if something goes badly wrong, you will be yanked back into the previous state.)
Once you modify XUL or JavaScript, you are no longer making a skin and are making a new app.
There will be two trust models for installed matter in Mozilla - 'trusted' (skin - meaning CSS and images) which can be downloaded and installed in a couple of clicks from any website, aided by a friendly dialog, e.g.
Install the theme 'Foo theme'?
[x] Switch to this theme now
[ OK ] [ Cancel ]
Whereas anything else will have to be installed via XPInstall or similar, basically putting up the scary dialogs associated with Java auth. or ActiveX controls. Why? Because chrome level JavaScript can access XPConnect, which means it can access your filesystem, your prefs, your mail, etc
The current skin is far from being 'too simple' from a code point of view (regardless of whatever it looks like at the user level)
Here are some of the different types of buttons we have style rules for:
button32 - large round toolbar buttons in navigator
button28 - round toolbar buttons for action items in second tier apps
other28 - round toolbar buttons for less important items in second tier apps
push - 3D outset dialog buttons
dialog - padded/default buttons for dialogs
toolbar-flat - personal toolbar and taskbar buttons
and there are several more I forget the classnames for - the 'search' button, the editor toolbar button styles, etc.
Now compound this with styles for other widgets, masses of formatting and padding styles, and you end up with a heck of a lot of style rules!
With a 4.x style skin, the browser window would have only one kind of button - the kind with the outset border with the black outline. (look at a 4.x window on windows, that's the only button type there is...) The other type would be dialog buttons. Two kinds. One kind of menu, one kind of tree widget, etc
=> smaller number of rules, faster traversal.
The native container approach is not being considered by Netscape's contributors, however there has been interest in the past among others. With a compelling embedding story, this should be possible - look at the 'web browsers' that have grown around IE's Trident.
Skinnability is one of the high priorities for Netscape 6 PR2, and is my highest priority work assignment at present.
Here's what we are doing:
1) making the FE skinnable by scrubbing the XUL code that describes it
2) creating a skin switching UI for the preferences window
3) creating skin download and installation mechanisms
4) creating new skins!
We need to get 1 nailed before we can do 4, although 2 and 3 are currently also in progress. Stay tuned...
Ben Goodger
mozilla.org UI lead
This is something we would dearly like to support - customizable menus, toolbars etc. Mozilla Classic on Windows had draggable toolbar buttons, you could drag navigation buttons and bookmarks on personal toolbars into different toolbars and locations. In Mozilla Classic, this was all done using RDF. Theoretically this is possible today in Seamonkey using RDF, however you would want Balls of Steel to attempt it, and the solution would probably be annoyingly complex. Whenever he gets time (probably not for version 1.0) David Hyatt (hyatt@netscape.com) mentioned that he could implement dynamic XUL overlays (overlays that persist state, such as item order etc) which would make this sort of thing much easier to set up.
and its a /beta/. people installing this who are not prepared for nigh on anything to happen to their systems DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
I've lost a 2 year mailbox to mozilla, but I'm an active developer so I don't care, I know that if we don't test and fix bugs, we get nowhere - we may as well give up and go home.
remember the IE4 betas? they were pieces of shit. One of them nearly took down my system. Did people claim MS was doomed and that their final release would suck?
MS did something dramatic with IE4 - even the final version of that browser wasn't perfect, but they'd built themselves a solid platform for ease of upgrade in future versions (5.0, 5.5 - both of which were very stable in beta). Mozilla and Netscape are at the IE4 stage - do something incredibly different.
You're right, some of the other application packages available that use Mozilla XPToolkit technology are faster (e.g. Aphrodite, Sullivan etc) because their style sheets are significantly simpler.
One of the problems with the current skin is that it is huge, style wise - many rules for the different components of the UI (grey menubar menus, blue personal toolbar menus, different types of buttons etc), all of which are read into one large soup of style rules, which must be traversed (looking for matches) when resolving style for elements as the content is built (or is changed). This style resolution is a contributor to some of the UI sluggishness you may have seen.
Once the foundations of skinnability are in place (which is one of my current tasks), we will work to produce a simpler skin that should see some subtle but noticable performance improvements!
Thanks,
Ben Goodger
mozilla.org UI lead
Actually, I used to have to enter a lot of movie data in a form to maintain content for a site, and this feature in IE was indispensable.
A lot of the time I would have to duplicate the information in a form, change a few things, and submit. With IE all I had to do was fill out the form once, hit Ctrl-N and it would pop up the form for me, already filled in with default information.
That's the only time its ever really come in handy. Perhaps it could be set as a user preference?
New browser windows load:
[ ] blank page
[ ] current page
[ ] home page
[ ] slashdot
Any new wiz-bang features released here? Any more huge packages lumped on?
Can your IM do this?
now that i have it downloaded... still slow, font selection in preferences is still odd - only lists helvetica... but other than that, its looking fine. I'll post more once I have used it enough to make a valid statement regarding stability. btw, im posting with it now.
This time, I've got the ftp site in my bookmarks :P While this downloads, I, as many of you I'm sure, are worried that it's still going to be very buggy. Here's hoping that the mean uptime is good and high - I'd be willing to sacrifice speed/some features for stability.
I'm sorry, but I don't see Microsoft Hildmann-Beyor 2001 or Microsoft Windows: UdderMaster Edition making the marketing gauntlet.
FOT: Whilst looking for the comical Microsoft/dairy overlap, I came across an advertisment in one magazine that concerns me. There is a rigid arm milking product that claims to have 'windows for the ultimate in reliability and sanitation'. Lawsuit?
Wait, no. MS Windows is neither reliable or sanitary (C'mon! It needs defrag to clean up after itself!). They couldn't possibly win...
Wait, no. I forgot. I live in the Land Of the Frivilous Lawsuit, where the meritless reign and common sense is checked at the door. I think I shall be making a call to Iowa tomorrow to let them in on it.
.sig: Now legally binding!
I'm actually significantly more concerned with speed than with download size. Maybe that's just because I have a cable modem *shrug*.
--
The shareholder is always right.
--
The shareholder is always right.
Cool? Maybe it's just because I'm not comparing to other linux browsers, but I find that painfully slow. IE on Windows loads in 2 seconds, and takes half a second to load a new window.
In order to compete with IE, Mozilla needs to leave itself resident in memory when the browser windows are closed. I didn't see this on bugzilla (although I admittedly didn't really know what to search for), so I just submitted a request for this feature.
--
The shareholder is always right.
Oops. I wasn't clear with my original statement. I should have said "when alt text is displayed".
--
The shareholder is always right.
--
The shareholder is always right.
Not really. It's intended to display to the spec (just like any other browser) but still messes up quite often. Most of www.gmx.de gets cut off, articles linked to from slashdot get jumbled, etc. Yes, it's open source, so these bugs get fixed in a reasonable amount of time, but mozilla isn't anywhere near being able to claim standards compliance.
Following the specs to the letter isn't such a great idea anyway, even when they're not contradicting each other and themselves. According to Ian Hickson, image alt text is supposed to be displayed as normal text, with nothing distinguishing it from page text, unless the page specifies how broken images are supposed to be displayed. And, oh, the spec for how to say how broken images are displayed will be in the NEXT version of CSS for website developers who don't want to use mozilla-specific code. Very few webpages with broken or slashdotted images look good in mozilla as a result, and layout is completely messed up even when width= and height= are specified.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
Yeah, it's cool, as long as you have a dual 1Ghz box. (I'm sure it will start getting faster quickly once the features solidify a little more.)
It's a platform, not a program.
So why does the security still suck? (see my sig)
--
The shareholder is always right.
"But compare it to the IE 5.5 beta, or the iCab 1.9 alpha, and it looks very unfinished."
:-).
IE hasn't been rewritten from the ground up in years. I can't speak for the iCab (their website doen't specify how much of the code is new).
Keep in mind that everything you see in Mozilla is brand spanking new. To put it another way, imagine how much something like XEMACS would suck if it was written all at once (while developing new technologies (XUL) no less!).
"And if they don't like it, they're going to be turned off."
I have to agree with you here. But if you know why NN6 sucks so much, then you might want to enlighten the rest of the unwashed masses as to what you know (Goddess knows I've been doing enough of that lately
Here's my copy of DeCSS. Where's yours?
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
Netscape and IE are both based partially on Mosaic. And I always though the name meant something like "kick-ass Godzilla-style version of Mosaic," not "Mosaic killer," but I could be wrong.
And Godzilla isn't a dinosaur, so they're obviously cashing in on the most famous dinosaur around, Barney.
More interesting is the fact that Microsoft started identifying IE as "Mozilla" in the user-agent field (so pages that had Netscape-specific features that were only active with the right user agent would show up spiffy in IE).
I still haven't figured out what "Opera" and "iCab" are supposed to mean. And NetPositive almost sounds like it means something, but then you realize that it doesn't....
no
Yes, Netscape 6PR1 is a (pre-)beta, and people shouldn't expect too much yet. But compare it to the IE 5.5 beta, or the iCab 1.9 alpha, and it looks very unfinished. (I would comment on M15, but there's no linuxppc version yet....)
The public perception may be unfair (I mean, look at the first IE4 preview release...), but that doesn't mean you can ignore it. When you release a product to the public like this, they're not going to read all the warnings--they're going to download it and try it out. And if they don't like it, they're going to be turned off.
no
If IE5.5 really does follow the entire DHTML standard (which I believe they claim it will), people will probably eventually recode their pages to follow the standard. But if it doesn't (and Microsoft doesn't always live up to their prerelease claims...), many web developers won't.
Most people I know who make web pages try them with Netscape 4.7 and IE 4.5 on their Macs, and maybe IE 5.0 on Windows if they have a Windows box lying around. If they work there, that's good enough....
Personally, I try to make sure things look good on every reasonably recent version of IE, Netscape, iCab, and Opera on every platform I can find, and even check to make sure it's at least usable with lynx, but I'm not typical.
no
Well, Opera still doesn't run on non-x86 linux. Or linux 2.0, 2.1, or 2.3/2.4. Or Debian-based linux 2.2.
And while they are "actively persuing" ports, they apparently don't intend to ever have it working on all platforms (e.g., my PowerPC 604e).
I wish someone could convince the iCab developers that they're wrong about linux ("we believe that the graphical interface of Linux is not very good (compared to the Mac)"), but for now, my only real choices are Netscape 4.7 or Mozilla....
no
Well, I'm sure iCab 1.9 shares a whole lot of code with 1.8, but the whole browser is only about as old as the Mozilla project.
In another post, I mentioned that the main reason Mozilla looks so unfinished is that it was an incredibly ambitious project--far more ambitious than IE 5.0 to 5.5, obviously.
I know that they have lots of justification for the current state of the project. In fact, I'm impressed that they've made it as good as they have.
But the "unwashed masses," as you put it, don't know that. We can all work to educate them, but I still think it's going to hurt public confidence in Netscape.
no
woody is the current unstable Debian distro (2.3).
Who says woody will be 2.3? What if the Debian people decide to release potato ( the previous unstable branch, the next to be released) as Debian 3.0?
This would make far more sense as potato was the first debian version using kernel 2.2 and the new libc version
-- The day Microsoft makes things that don't suck, it's the day they start making vacuum cleaners.
There should be a way to disable the onLoad and onUnload functions or at the very least be able to prevent them from opening new windows. The most annoying thing about some websites is not being able to view them without them spawning countless child windows.
For more info, check Debian.org.
For more info, check Debian.org.
Who pissed in your cornflakes?
___
Step 2) Upzip the skin into a new folder in your d:\M15\chrome folder and name the folder the same as the skin.
EXAMPLE: I have 1 skin in D:\M15\chrome\aphrodite\ and another skin in: D:\M15\chrome\hoopyfrood\
Step 3) Create a text file in d:M15 with a .BAT extention on it and put the following in that text file:
mozilla.exe -chrome chrome://NAME OF YOUR SKIN FOLDER/content/
Step 4)If you find yourself frustrated with all of this windows madness, look into installing Linux.
___
PIII 450 128M Voodoo3AGP running (woefully) Win98.
About the ball:
Mozilla M15 (from:ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/r eleases/m15/) Build 2000041805 a 5339K download without the talkback client.
Impressions:
[1] Downloading the program is fast. Getting a browser, mail and news in under 6M (1254 files), is impressive.
[2] click Mozilla.exe --> open browser == 11 seconds. Cool.
[3] Moving my mouse along the pull down menus, considerable lag when I hover over bookmarks (prolly from the 985 bookmarks:).
[4] Pulled down QA and loded the smoke tests. all OK.
[5] Loaded the aphrodite skin. The GO button is a few pixels to low on the tool bar but, It all works well.
[6] Loaded the Sullivan skin. The back ground color looks like something changed. M15 has a darker grey than the background on the buttons.
[7] Loaded xml.com Alert: "the connection was refused when attempting to contact adforce.imgis.com". There's a dialog for every time an image doesn't load. had to press OK 8 times.
[8] Fast...ohmygod fast. Loaded the Jargon file v4.2.0 Jargon.html file from my local drive (2.16M) and saw it on the screen in less than 2 seconds!
[9] Clean interface, standards compliant, and ohmygod fast.
[10] My best regards to the entire Mozilla team and to all that help them with this wonderfull platform. Your quality work shows in all that you do. To those of you who have been waiting for a working browser before you start your mozilla development project . . .come and get it! !
___
Okay, let's *not* talk about what Mozilla WILL be. Let's talk about what Mozilla IS. For me, it:
renders so far every site that I regularly visit perfectly
loads HTML pages noticeably faster than Netscape, especially pages with tables used for layout.
is slower at some things than Netscape (pg-up /pg-down)
has some focus problems
is more stable than previous Mozillas. Netscape doesn't often crash on me (SuSE Linux), but it does occasionally get confused (pages refuse to display).
has a solution: if I don't like a feature - just stop bitching and fix it.
The problems the Mozilla project has have been well-hashed out by this particular audience, but Mozilla *is* improving. I resolve to use it until I can't. Thanks, Mozilla developers.
TechWeb has a review of Netscape 6, preview 1. It's not very flattering. Some quotes:
"Netscape 6 PR1 is far from ready for prime time, however. It's not even close-- yet."
"If things remain the same, AOL might succeed at doing to Netscape Navigator and the ever-popular Lizard (Mozilla) what Microsoft (stock: MSFT) and its Internet Explorer were never able to do -- kill it."
Harsh words -- but in line with many people's experiences that have posted here on Slashdot in the past.
It will be interesting to see if they can get the problems worked out and make it a competitive browser.
--
I know that drop-down menus on the Back and Forward buttons have been requested for a while, and you can get them now at the ChromeZone (look at the Back/Forward Context Menus "skin"). It only takes a little extra work, and it's very handy!
Check out Greg's Bridge Page!
Here's my DeCSS mirror. Where's yours?
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Oh, god. I actually have a copy of the Windows 2000 betas for Professional, Server and Advanced Server. I tried running Professional... honestly. But it crashed so much for no reason, all the time that it only spent about a week on my machine. Yuck. I'm sure the final versions are better, but I'm not shelling out the cash for it.
Here's my DeCSS mirror. Where's yours?
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
M15 seems OK so far, except for the fact that support for character entities, which was getting relatively complete in M14 and Netscape6PR, is now almost totally broken again.
One of the first things I do with a browser to test it is run by my symbols.shtml test page. M15 has no support for Latin Extended, General Punctuation, Greek, or math symbols anymore. Very surprisingly, 9786 () still works. I don't see anything that amazing about M15 (it seems a little smoother, that's about it)...I'll probably go back to N6PR for this reason. (Don't have the time to play with nightlies, sorry.)
Anybody know if the Mac version is any more stable this time around? My Mac-using coworkers were unable to get M14 or N6PR to work at all.
Constitutionally Correct
I'd just like to thank the Mozilla team for all the work they put into this. Its got some bugs, but it seems _very_ good. Lets see how long I can run it before it crashes.
For the curious, it correctly imported almost all my NS 4.7 settings. Wohoo!
It does not like me hiding its navbars though...
Go Mozilla!
P.S. I'm now using M15 (almost) all the way.
It will be better at web-FTP than IE5 for windows, which was the MOST IRRITATING thing I have ever seen. (it turned it into a file folder, but drag and drop didn't work, so you needed to Right Click, Copy To Folder, then do some GODFORSAKEN SHIT to get it to save... that option went off REAL FAST)
All you have to do is double click on the file and it'll ask you whether you want to download the file. Counter-intuitive, but not as bad as you made it out to be.
====
oops it ate part of that
./mozilla -chrome chrome://'chrome-name'/content
The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
different chromes are on http://www.mozillazine.org/chromezone
the command-line switch you seek is
./mozilla -chrome chrome:///content
chrome support is a bit technical right now, but I think the prefs dialong will have a GUI picker in the near future. In the meantime there are directions for the interested in the chromezone.
The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
not only did it immediately crash my computer (for the first time in about a month), but my computer now seems to be running much slower...
don't use win98. try NT or win2k.
Just another piece of evidence that proves open source programming doesn't work aww, that's not fair. slashdot is %100 percent open source and i can read your post, can't i?
-Jon
this is my sig.
Well, here it is... my first try on M15, and so far it is _beautiful_. I love the way Mozilla handles fonts in Linux WAY WAY WAY better than Netscape does.
On a side note, I'm amazed that the FTP server hasn't slown to a crawl already... I got the whole works in just a couple of seconds!
I occasionally see some UI shakiness.. Usually when using a text entry widget, or other, less often visited portions of the browser.
I think most people complain about Mozilla being slow because it doesn't always respond how they expect. The actual UI and usability has taken a backseat for a long time, while the team gets the actual rendering and javascript up to speed.
Personally, I rather prefer this approach. I have entirely two more browsers with good UIs and /horrible/ rendering in my toolset. (Netscrape 4.x, IE x.x) I don't need a third.
I /do/ miss URL-completion, though.
Weapons of Mass Analysis
The next release of Debian, the Linux distro with a motto of 'We may not be cutting edge, but dammit, we're stable, and people like us.' ;)
Weapons of Mass Analysis
Even better... Opera Preview Release 3 is out. Light, tight and better then before
However, I am quite disappointed with M15 under Win2K--if I click anything in the menu, it crashes. The only thing I can think of which might be causing the problem is my dual monitor setup.
I guess I'll take a shot at the nightly windows builds, but I had hoped the milestones wouldn't have this kind of bug.
MOZILLA IS GARBAGE
I have never ever seen such a poor excuse for software in my life as "Crapzilla". It is ugly, slow, buggy, and has never rendered pages right and likely never will.
I suppose it's a wonderful ideal, making an open-source browser and all, but it's not even what I would consider ALPHA quality, and is just plain stinking garbage.
*) I went to espn.go.com, which I use as a page rendering test (since it's a table-heavy graphics-rich site and a challenge for a browser to render), and it rendered it with all the tables stacked vertically like Lynx or Mosaic.
*) Without asking, it re-arranges and renames the items in my personal toolbar folder
*) AND, it throws open _EACH_AND_EVERY_ folder in the Netscape bookmarks editor, by stripping out the "FOLDED" key. I have over 10,000 folders in my bookmarks, so this is like an act of war to me! I had to pull the bookmarks file into an editor and spend 1/2 hour doing search and replace to replace the "FOLDED" key
And let's not forget the bastard-ugly UI. I've seen better-looking vomit than Crapzilla, and Crapzilla is sickening to look at.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what the Crapzilla team's ideals are, I don't give a damn how it's licensed, and I especially don't give a damn about the "advance" Crapzilla is supposed to represent. Just because it's open-source doesn't mean it's good. It's just the backwards bastard browser from hell, and Netscape 4.61 is LIGHT YEARS more advanced than Crapzilla, and I'll be using it for years to come. I certainly won't be using Netscape 6 ever, since it's just Crapzilla rehashed, and I likely won't ever forgive the Netscrape people for this abomination.
[Rant off]
I have a fast mirror site here: ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/mozilla/
I am playing with Linux nightly build. It is newer and buggier than M15, which is likely rolled off into another line a week or two before.
The speed is definately picking up... I remember waiting for form pulldowns to draw... It's very close to the same league as NS4.7, and it's doing a SHITLOAD more.
The KILLER APP is the UI overhaul themes... I played with a few last night... If you DONT LIKE MOZILLA NOW, WAIT FOR THE NEW THEMES... A lot of the sluggishness is due to the sidebars and the moving crap and shit... Stuff like the ANDREW theme or whatever the fuck it's called makes things SIGNIFICANTLY faster...
I know because i tried them. =P
It displays most pages right.
It never knows when to stop moving the throbber.
And if you jack up the DPI setting in preferences, you can actually read the fonts.
No java in the nightlies, oh well.
It works much better than before, has replaced NS4.7 for me, remembers preferences well, behaves well, and is ACTUALLY GETTING FASTER... I can see what this will become and I seriously like it.
(faster as in, it is usable on my 400/128 assuming the X server is given a relatively high priority)
Oh yeah, the little turquoise pulldown next to the address bar with the down arrow is really damn sweet... mozilla has POTENTIAL... I like it.
-troll taker
I believe the code for automatic address-completion went in a couple days ago. It's probably not turned on or something.
Mozzy has password remembering already set up. It works okay. The mailer is radically better than previously. Javascript works. Most webpages work pretty well.
It will be better at web-FTP than IE5 for windows, which was the MOST IRRITATING thing I have ever seen. (it turned it into a file folder, but drag and drop didn't work, so you needed to Right Click, Copy To Folder, then do some GODFORSAKEN SHIT to get it to save... that option went off REAL FAST)
Mozilla knows how to download shit and save and open local files now.
Mozzy starts up without dying now. The initial load is very sluggish, like everything else. If it is in cache, it starts up very very quickly.
The biggest gripe is focus issues... They're still fruity and it is far too easy for focus to go into the void, leaving you with a useless shell.
The extras and the obscene flexibility of the UI definition language will make this a seriously cool thing... If you can't imagine how cool something this flexible will be, then that's sad.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
So the colors suck. Deal. You can change them later. A theme manager will likely be set up in a few more months..
It displays shit correctly, to the spec... There are workarounds for shitty HTML like slashdots...
It remembers your homepage, it remembers all sorts of shit now. Except that goddamn default toolbar. Oh well.
Most of what sucks about mozilla is being fixed or can be changed by you... That's what i like about it. And it is free after all.
And stop bitching about the extra features... The editor and the mail program and all that shit are basically hyper-dynamic webpages. The size is probably going to be like 10MB compressed for EVERYTHING that mozzy does when it gets to netscape release... that includes all SORTS of shit plus new java.
/me shrugs... It's really not that bad folks. And it will continue to get better as long as AOL keeps dumping enormous amounts of money into the project.... And we all start learning how to design better (faster/more effective) user interfaces for mozilla faster...
It's a platform, not a program.
-troll taker
You can cook up your own skin. www.mozilla.org/chromezone has some cool looking ones, including "Navigator Classic" for "I like the old look" crowd. As for those of you who want your favorite hotkeys, they're been turned off for now. As for me, I just want the memory leak pluged. Nothing big ;-)
-Elendale (There, that wasn't to bad. I got it out of my system :))
IANAT (I Am Not A Troll)
it is even easier to type this directly in the properties dialog of the launcher;
/path/to/mozilla/package; ./run-mozilla.sh
cd
Lol! Thanks for some much needed comic relief. Sorry about all the people who don't get it.
--
He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
I'm glad mozilla is working on this project.. I hope it takes off.
Hope I read some more positive reviews on this release.. the ones from 14 wern't too great. The guys at the mozilla project are exceptionaly talented coders, and I think we should be doing some 'bugzilla' to help them out and get a browser most of us want in better circulation.
but that's my silly opinion 'eh? :)
------- What exactly is real?
Underlined text is more difficult to read and is ugly.
The reason underlined text is used at all is because of typewriters. I'll explain.
Before (and since) the advent of the old-fashioned mechanical typewriter, emphasis in text was achieved through italics or bold or a combination of the two. Underlining was eschewed by professionals for the reasons cited above. How, then, was someone to emphasize text with a typewriter with no italics or bold available? Underlining, of course!
Then the GUI word processors appeared and an entire generation of typographically-challenged folk retained the underline from their typewriter days instead of restricting their emphasis of text to the bold and italic modes that were suddenly available.
The default settings of Netscape's Navigator (and the earlier Mosiac) had underline text for links, but the preferences allowed them to be turned off, which, of course, I immediately took advantage of.
The Mozilla builds I've seen so far have not provided this option. Is anybody listening out there? Please put the option to turn off underlining in the preferences.
Thanx.
Hey,
Just thought I'd bounce a couple of ideas here...
First of all, since Mozilla has such a nice interface... that appears to me to be, just a couple of nice gif or jpegs... why don't they make the GUI skinnable?
Secondly, on NS 6... I got a little miffed when I had to be connected to my network to install the browser... for th final version... try packaging an 'all inclusive' one-shot downloaded install.
Finally, I've noticed that NS6/Mozilla doesn't really handle some DHTML the way the old 4.X line had... I know it's based on gecko and will probably be implemented, but does anyone have any insight into this problem?
I really need to read more about this, just don't have the time...
PHanT0
It's about time people recognised what a great job the Mozilla developers have done with the Mx releases. From an end user perspective, it's good because it works. Enough bickering already, that it isn't the size of Opera, or doesn't have cleaner widgets like IE etc etc I read the MozillaZine posts last time a Mozilla story was posted on /. and the comments were uncomplimentary to say the least - and justifiably so. Just be grateful such a project is being actively developed for our benefit. Just my 0.02 Aust cents (which equals about 0.0000001 US cents)
Bull, potato is is debian 2.2 (frozen) woody is the next version after that and if you think it is stable you sould try running it :)
-dp
All this discussion on whether Winmag would be biased against NS 6 is ridiculous because they gave it a glowing review. The article discussed the preview release at length, calling it a "revolution" and lauding both its features and Netscape's desicion to use an open-source design model. In particular, they frame it as being a real competitor for IE. In fact, it's one of the most positive review of NS6 that I've read. Anyone saying the Winmag is biased against NS should read this before sounding like an idiot.
The bus came by and I got on
That's when it all began
There was cowboy Neal
At the wheel
Of a bus to never-ever land
I'd rather be lucky than good.
(Begin Troll)
a0L Su(kz
And so does this, because it has the stench of AOL on it.
(End Troll)
What's the deal with browsers? Why are they so important to work on? Besides the lame AOL browser (not meaning this, but meaning the browser that comes with AOL), isn't the only point of a browser to have a back and forward button and then to display a web page? Okay, fine, there are plenty of other things a browser is good for, but in the grand scheme of things, how important are they?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Personally, I wish they'd screw the "skins" and just use the OS's standard UI (well, except for Linux which doesn't have one, grr) to do the stuff. I find the skins just annoying and slow.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
How in hell do POSIX and X11 apply to IE? They don't. It DOES have some standards problems - oh, no it doesn't - MS changed the standards to meet IE. Blah.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Plus the new "tinderbox" and side panel thing are a royal pain... all in all, I like IE better - well, from a usability standpoint. I REALLY don't like using something that apparently decides that my entire computer is the sandbox for online content... stupid ActiveX.
Eh, I'll keep using Netscape 4.72, be mad that it won't properly display half the sites online, and it isn't fully standards compliant. Maybe around M256 we'll have a useful and stable product, but I'm not holding my breath.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
There has been worse, remember this is BETA and BETA's are suppose to be buggy, the point of releases them is to get fead back from the general public about bugs and other issues. Not to long go about 5 years, Microsoft release Windows 95, while this version of Netscape is a BETA and is a little buggy that was the release of the operating system. So people shutup it really ain't that bad. Just wait to the full version is out, but i will tell ya right now this Netscape 6 is a lot faster then Internet Explorer.
Well, upon testing, the latest version of NS 6 supports both event bubbling and event capturing. Finally, they are on par with IE 5 in the event model respect.
---------------
---------------
JavaScript tutorials scripts
I'm using my IE5.5 BETA, and it works fine...
BETA doesn't mean that it's fine if it's full of crappy bugs, a crappy interface, and nothing that makes it any better than any other browser in the world (including opera)..
- Jeremy Fuller
I'm not proud, I'm just saying corporate (ie "good") companies make better products that DON'T crash as often in such an advanced OS as my great Win98, I'm sure everyone here is proud that their computer has been running a straight 384 days (about half the amount of time since they've been out of the house, and a tenth of the time since they "almost" got a date).
Sure open source is a hobby, but if it's not a GOOD product it shouldn't be on the front page of this website every 3 days and talked about so much, when there are much better (ALSO free) products already out there.
I made this checkers game in Visual Basic as a hobby (but don't try crowning your pieces), that doesn't make it international news.
- Jeremy Fuller
2. I would but it has so many bugs and there would be no purpose to doing it (and making a working crappy browser instead of a non-working crappy browser)
3. Oh yeah, there's a conspiracy. Those Netscape, AOL and Opera folks must be supergeniuses to get around Microsoft's traps
4). Ahh, I disagree with your religion for open-source so I must be a liar and a troll. Hey, I'm not the one making conspiracy theories and heresy calls (your #3 and #4).
- Jeremy Fuller
Unix has its uses: 1) Network Stability 2) nothing
Win98 and Win2000 betas were buggy, but guess what they had to make up for it? About a billion features no other OS or program in the world has. Can Mozilla say that? Mozilla has no reason to be buggy except for very crappy programming.
- Jeremy Fuller
If you replaced "Mozilla" and "IE5.5" in his post, he would have been moderated to (5, Insightful).
- Jeremy Fuller
Good luck with your Lynx surfing!
- Jeremy Fuller
The fact that it crashed your computer says a whole lot about your OS too.
I admit, programs crash (a lot) in linux, but they have never taken my whole system down with it.
Just don't blame it all on the applications.
And another thing, you are here at slashdot, so don't be too proud of the fact that your computer hasn't crashed in a whole month.
I think that the people here are used to 'heavier' uptimes...
Open Source programming works just fine, I hope you will get the fact that most of these people don't get paid for what they do.
It is often just a hobby and you can't expect that they make their programs as 'nice and dandy' as coached projects at 'respectable' companies.
I find it normal and I except that open source development is slower and buggier than other software.
Smile, it's for free, so what if it's buggy...
And slowly... but surely, they drew that plan against us...
P.S.: I know/hope you already knew all this, it's just a reminder.
This release is just mostly bugfixes and speeding it up.. Mozilla is looking really nice..
BTW, use its FullCircle Feature!! It'll help the developers improve it quicker and more thorough..
-meff
Look at the Mozilla dinosaur icon -- it looks identical to Gojira (aka Godzilla). THIS IS PLAGIARISM. Gojira (aka Godzilla) existed DECADES before the Internet was ever created, let alone the Mozilla project. And don't tell me this is just a coincidence; the name "Mozilla" is obviously intended to sound like "Godzilla". Copyright and trademark law prevents the use of similar names and logos when they are likely to confuse consumers. Well, if I was a consumer, I'd be damned confused -- a browser named "Mozilla" with a dinosaur mascot sure sounds like it's endorsed by Tojo, Inc. This is not true.
Why this has not been acted on is a mystery to me. The "Mozilla" dinosaur clearly violates Tojo, Inc's copyright on Gojira (aka Godzilla. C'mon, guys, how about choosing something a little more original -- like, say, a ferret? How many ferrets out there do you see as corporate mascots? Huh?
This post will act as an unofficial petition to the Mozilla developers to select a new mascot that does not resemble Gojira (aka Godzilla). Simply reply to this message if you want to add your name to the list.
Yu Suzuki
Yu Suzuki
Deamcast. It's thinking.
I tried the mozilla/netscape 6 on my win98 box and it was a little too buggy for me. I'm sure most people reading this are in linux, but just thought i should say something. Anyone else try the *gasp* windows version?
Why does this poor person keep getting moderated down? Negative moderation should be reserved for trollz, such as myself.
Here's something to get your started:
MODERATORS TOSS MY SALAD WITH JELLY AND SYRUP!!!
THEY LIKE THE TASTE AND THE TEXTURE!!!
MMM...MMM...GOOD!!!
Moderate that, beeeyotches!
--
Trollin' fer syrup!
Well, I finally downloaded the official NS6 preview the other day (*hint* *hint* want speed? use net+!) and I found it to be quite a bit faster than NS4.7 on my dual PII 400mhz - on some sites, NS4.7 just sucked, speed wise. I don't understand where the speed complaints come from - NS4.7 is the slowest thing there is, and Mozilla has always been faster, from the time they redid the engine.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Visit
I love the new interface myself... I like the idea of a skinnable browser. I'm definately going to have to download M15... I've been running Mozilla since about M13, and I've seen huge improvements each time.
As far as it being slow, perhaps it just has huge system requirements? I have really not noticed any lag on either my 433 home machine, or 450 G3 at work with the few latest builds of MoZilla, or with the preview version of Netscape 6. Am I the only person without huge latency problems?
Just one opinion in a sea of many,
-Dusty Hodges
MI15 was real nice, jpeg support built in. I remember many of the nightly builds but i like tonights build MI16 better.
-Compenguin
The Jedi of the Prequels