"What sort of world do you live in where new car lines are created that fast? Bringing a new series of car to market takes years -- which is why I've continually mentioned "the next few years" as the timeframe for when a whole bunch of EVs/PHEVs with automotive li-ions will be coming out." But the post I originally replied to was WHY DON"T WE ALREADY HAVE ELECTRIC CARS! And the answer is because they where not as good cars as hydrocarbon powered ones. I was not making any comment about the future at all except that I think that hydrocarbons still have a future as a an energy storage medium and that IC engines will be around for a long time. When gas is under two dollars a gallon electric cars are not as good as gas. In many cases electric systems are still not as good as hydrocarbon systems. A lot of has to do with energy density and a lot has to do with infrastructure. The future? Well maybe they will be better. But the thing is that you can make gasoline with electricity, air, and water if you have cheap enough electricity. But you keep talking about the future. I am talking about today and last year. Every thing you say may come to pass I never said it couldn't but I am talking about right now. I still think that the short range will be the thing that holds back the EV. Plug in hybrids and even better a plug in hybrid with an advanced IC engine seem to hold more promise out side of major metropolitan areas.
"Bzzt, you can build your own right now, because the cells are out there and readily purchasable by anyone." But you can not buy them in a car right now. You sure couldn't buy them in a car last year. "Did I give a discount on insurance in the above numbers? Nope, try again." No but you didn't include it. You put down how much repairs and insurance was as a cost and wrote all of it off for an EV. Plus that covers all repairs. I did have a $500 repair on my Mazda 3. I was stopped at a red light and got rear ended. I don't count that in my calculation since it was in pay way a failure of the car. Those numbers don't seperate fender benders and such. I can assure you that the average person is probably paying close to $500 a year of more for insurance. If an electric car is much more expensive than the equivalent IC car then the insurance will be higher as well. And no we still have not seen the the first generation of mass market EVs yet. Notice the mass market part of that statment.
The indisputable fact is that you can not buy a good moderate priced EV today. In a year or two maybe. And the reason that you can not is the technology wasn't available three or so years ago. Just take a look at the problems that Tesla is having with their rich boys plaything and that GM is having with the Volt.
"And those are not available yet for a car sized battery pack
BZZT, sorry, try again! *Almost all* new PHEVs and EVs coming out in significant volume in the coming years are using one of those chemistries, and the prototypes are running on them. The only glaring exception to this is Tesla." Bzzt right You can not get them NOW.
"Why not compare it to a Lexus, Honda, Acura, or Mazda 3 or 6.
Because we're comparing fuel-efficient vehicles with guzzlers, obviously." Well you are. I am comparing a fuel-efficient IC vehicle to an electric vehicle. Of course in this market millage sells.
My comment was about why do not have a large number of electric cars NOW. The post was stating that it was because the oil companies where paying off the car companies. "Um, no. In 2005, the average driver spent $2,013 in gasoline and motor oil plus $2,339 on other vehicle expenses (repairs, insurance, etc) [census.gov]. Unless you have a magical car that never breaks, your car needs more than just oil and tires changed." What you will not have to pay insurance tag and title on your elective vehicle? Do you think it will never have issues? Also good modern cars are actually very trouble free. Not all mind you and I wouldn't bet on first gen mass market electric cars to be as trouble free as they will be in the future.
As to your dismissing fuel cells. I wouldn't. Just as battery tech will improve so will fuel cells. I happen to think that for the short term that IC will continue to rule for a while. I think we will all be surprised just how much millage people will get out of IC engines.
The reason I put down 200 miles was simple rounding. When I drive to visit the wife's family in Texas I often drive 330 miles between fill ups to try and make good time And yes that is in my Mazda 3. Just now has battery tech gotten to the point the electric and hybrids don't suck as cars.
But sometimes what you need are NOT IN THE REPOS! That is the problem. Try and find an RPM for the latest verison of Postgres for the latest verison of OpenSuse. You will not find it in any REPOS. You will have to install from source. The REPOS system means you are at the mercy of the REPOS maintainers.
Yes but Craigslist is far from perfect. It is hard to search nationally. Suppose I need a gas tank for a 78 CB750K. I don't care if it is local or not. Craigslist isn't as good as Ebay for that kind of thing. As to BUY.com and other companies putting products up I just don't see that hurting to many people I hardly ever look on Ebay for new stuff. I look for stuff I can not find any place else.
Yes there are and I have had problems with them as well. They work just fine as long as you only use what is in the repositories but if you don't you can break them.
What a terrible mish mash your reply is. Resale value. "And this is something that will almost certainly hold over into resale value; there's a reason why a Hummer, which costs 1.5 times what Prius costs, depreciates three times as fast." Well lets take an honest look at this on. The Hummer has terrible resale value for a lot of reasons. A big one is that it is a terrible vehical with a terrible repair history. A Prius is a Toyota and has a great repair history. Why not compare it to a Lexus, Honda, Acura, or Mazda 3 or 6. I think you will find it still has a great resale and in large part that has to do with current price of fuel. Also a Prius isn't an electric car. "The average car on the road is now roughly nine years old, implying an average lifespan of 18 years. Ignoring inflation on gasoline prices and interest on the purchase, this would work out to a savings of $41,400 over the lifespan of the vehicle. That's a *Lot* of money. Saying it has to cost under $20k is just stupid." Yea you are ignoring the interest that you would have to pay on the extra money. The other thing you are forgetting is that car loans are limited to usually five years and you are ignoring the cost of a battery pack replacement. I doubt that any battery pack will last the 18 years you are perdicting for a car life span.
"Let's toss in another $500 in maintenance savings -" $500 a year? On my Mazda all I have had to do is change the oil and get new tires. Since tires are tires let's take a look at the oil changes. At $50 each and at 6000 miles per change I would have to drive 60,000 miles a year. Yes that includes filters and what not. "As for fillup times, you may be surprised to learn that LiPs, spinels, and titanates *can* charge in 5-10 minutes. " And those are not available yet for a car sized battery pack plus I question the very idea of charging a Li/Poly car pack in five or ten minutes. That will out a LOT of heat. None of those technologies are available right now. "As for range, why on earth would you need to be able to drive 300 miles on a single charge? The standard recommendation for drivers is that you stop and stretch for five to ten minutes at least once every two hours of driving." Where do you get that? Anyway even if you can live with a two hour range that means from a practical point of view at least a two and half hour range. At seventy mph that puts it two hundred miles. Why two had and half hours?. You don't want to drive until your battery is flat. That extra half an hour give you time to get to an exit or get past a storm when on a trip. People do drive on trips.
The statment was why don't we have electric cars already. That is because hydrocarbons where and still are a better choice. Will they always be? Maybe or maybe not. Methanol fuel cells hold a lot of promise. I read about a Methanol IC engine that was very interesting. It was based on a VW diesel block but they added a spark plug and instead of a throttle it used EGR to control the amount of O2 available for combustion. That way it didn't use a throttle plate so it suffered no pumping losses. It produced very low emissions and good power and very good economy. Of course Methanol is a hydrocarbon. You like way too many zealots seem to jump to the conclusion that I am saying electric cars will never work. Not at all. What I am saying is that the reason that auto manufactures have not made them is because we didn't want them. The car makers simply make what we want them to. The reason that there are so many SUVs and big Pickups on the road is because we wanted them a bought them. I use we because when I was car shopping a few years ago I was tempted to pick up a big SUV. I decided that a car was a better choice but I can see why they are attractive. In the end it is our choice so stop blaming the auto companies for giving us what we asked for.
Hey I would love a small pickup for just what you said. The problem isn't people buying pickups or SUVs. The problem is people that don't need a pickup or an SUV buying them. There is a girl at my office that lives with at home and owns a RAM 1500 Hemi just because she likes big trucks. It never tows or hauls. There is a family at church that has an Excursion. They have nine kids of which eight of them are adopted. They have use for an Excursion. Again take a look at the "small" trucks you can buy today and compare them to the small trucks of the 80s. But the thing is people where looking to lay blame but are not willing to take any responsibility. The car companies should have FORCED us to buy fuel efficient cars.
So you have never had an issue with an RPM? You must not install anything that doesn't come with your install CD! As I said I can manage source installs. The problem is that there isn't a Linux installer. At best you have to find an RPM or deb for your system at worst you have to find the source tarball. Add to that the complexity of packaging an install for the developers and you have a real mess.
Okay except we don't have that. There is alien and that does work but being able to download a file called setup or install is just intuitive And that counts for a lot when you are talking about Aunt Tillie ready.
"Mind you as well that electric motors have bags ans bags more of torque than IC engines" You had just about everything else correct. That will depend on the motor. And there does get to be a weight penalty with electric mothers just like IC engines. Sometimes it is better to spin a small motor faster and take the gearing loss.
Guess what? I knew someone that bought an electric car back in I think 72! Don't blame the car makers blame physics and customers. The reason that liquid hydrocarbon fuels have been so popular for cars is because they are a great solution for powering cars. Build an electric car that can take four people and luggage 300 miles on charge. Oh and the recharge time has to be five minutes, battery life has to be 150,000 miles and the cost? Under $20,000. That is what it would take to be a better car then a Mazda 3. The real problem has nothing to do with the auto companies. It has everything to do with us. People bought giant SUVs and Pickups just for style and the fact they felt safer. Everybody thought I was nuts because I actually like smaller cars. I don't have kids yet and I think smaller cars are more fun to drive. Companies work on the premise that you should give the customer what they want. We wanted big SUVs and trucks and not small cars and minivans. Now customers want more fuel efficient vehicles. It takes a while to make the change. Now what I find funny is that back in 84 a car that went 0-60 under 10 seconds was quick. Now that is considered slow.
I don't think so. I have no problem moving between Gnome and KDE. I have gotten to the point that I like Gnome better because it actually feels simpler to use. I have not used KDE4 at all so things may change. That being said I can think of a LOT more pressing needs in OSS than merging KDE and GNOME. 1. Audio. It is still a mess. Make up your minds and create a standard for that. 2. An Installer. Repositories are great if they have what you want. Yes I can deal with./configure;make;make install just fine but not everyone can.
I think you may be wrong. http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/thalfact.htm "Thalidomide was one of the first drugs recognized to cause birth defects in humans. Although thalidomide was never released in the United States," And here http://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/14332_1172.asp "What is the history of thalidomide? Thalidomide was first prescribed in the late 1950s in Europe to treat anxiety, insomnia and, in pregnant women, morning sickness. It also was marketed in numerous other countries, including Japan, Australia and Canada. It was withdrawn from the market in the early 1960s when doctors learned that it caused devastating birth defects. About 10,000 children around the world were born with major malformations because their mothers had taken the drug during early pregnancy (2). Until 1998, thalidomide had never been approved in the United States. This was largely due to the stubborn skepticism of FDA medical officer Frances Kelsey, MD, PhD (3). Dr. Kelsey wanted proof that it was safe for humans, particularly for the embryo. By late 1961, the drug's unique ability to cause serious human malformations was becoming clear.
The worldwide thalidomide tragedy changed the way drugs are developed, tested and regulated in the United States, significantly broadening FDA authority (3). Dr. Kelsey often is credited with sealing the FDA's reputation as the world's premier authority on food and drug safety."
I could be wrong but I think the US managed to miss this one.
We can hope. And maybe she wouldn't be so lonely if HER SON called her more. guilt guilt guilt... Just kidding. I do hope her all the best and I hope we can all get through this election with our sanity intact.
I am not back tracking at all. The original post stated that they wanted research that showed nanotech was safe. Nothing is 100% safe. I simply pointed out that many things that we live with everyday are not absolutely safe. Live really is a case of risk management. The problem is people seem to be very clueless about what is and is not a risk. I am not calling for what I consider a low standard of proof at all. I am calling for a reasonable standard and frankly one that I and probably not you are qualified to quantify. I don't like reactionary fear mongers and I am willing to call them out. As to your final statment. If you don't seriously hope that people have to deal with a web footed baby then you should shouldn't say that you do. Shouldn't a person be judged by what they say and do? I may be over sensitive since I have a sister that is a single mother that has an Autistic child with several other health problems. He was on a breathing and heart monitor as an infant. I spent many a night taking care of him and dealing with a sick child. BTW Thalidomide wasn't used in the US. It hadn't passed FDA testing yet it was only being used in clinical studies. I guess we should give the FDA a big thumbs up for that one. It was mainly a problem in Europe.
But they can knock on your door to ask you to sign a petition. Calling on a phone is not the same as entering your home. Buy having a phone legally you are saying that you are willing to be called. Since you do not pay for incoming calls they are not using your resources just your time. No different than a protester that slows you do or someone taking your time asking you to sign a petition. I am not saying it isn't a pain. Heck I was totally annoyed by some evil moronic demonic people that wanted me to sing a petition that would with hold medical services from the children if illegal immigrants! But they have the right to try and legally do something that I find extremely evil.
Get thanks what a nice fellow you are. And a nutter that can not read to boot. Your statment.. "you can do some basic due diligence to show that it's not horribly toxic."
And from my post. "I am all for doing research to see what the dangers are but if you require any technology to be be proven safe then nothing will ever pass. You can not prove anything is "safe"."
Gee it seems like I am actually all for due diligence. Just not for absolute proof of absolute safety which you can never achieve.
It is my hope that even people like you will never have to deal with a sick child. Unlike I don't wish for thing like that for anybody.
I would suggest caller id and a phone machine. I am afraid that yes fund raising is a form of political speech and is protected. It is annoying but not that terrible. And I am sorry to her about mothers loss. Things like that are at best a sore spot and at worse very painful.
Sorry but that is no different than people protesting or putting political signs up or stopping you to ask you to sign a petition. You can ask them to never call you again, you can hang up on them.
Slashdot Mirror
"What sort of world do you live in where new car lines are created that fast? Bringing a new series of car to market takes years -- which is why I've continually mentioned "the next few years" as the timeframe for when a whole bunch of EVs/PHEVs with automotive li-ions will be coming out."
But the post I originally replied to was WHY DON"T WE ALREADY HAVE ELECTRIC CARS!
And the answer is because they where not as good cars as hydrocarbon powered ones.
I was not making any comment about the future at all except that I think that hydrocarbons still have a future as a an energy storage medium and that IC engines will be around for a long time.
When gas is under two dollars a gallon electric cars are not as good as gas. In many cases electric systems are still not as good as hydrocarbon systems. A lot of has to do with energy density and a lot has to do with infrastructure. The future? Well maybe they will be better. But the thing is that you can make gasoline with electricity, air, and water if you have cheap enough electricity. But you keep talking about the future. I am talking about today and last year. Every thing you say may come to pass I never said it couldn't but I am talking about right now.
I still think that the short range will be the thing that holds back the EV. Plug in hybrids and even better a plug in hybrid with an advanced IC engine seem to hold more promise out side of major metropolitan areas.
Nope but she might need the latest version of Gimp.
Postgres is one that I have had to do by hand.
You left out that the Pentiums are probably radiation hardened as well.
"Bzzt, you can build your own right now, because the cells are out there and readily purchasable by anyone."
But you can not buy them in a car right now. You sure couldn't buy them in a car last year.
"Did I give a discount on insurance in the above numbers? Nope, try again."
No but you didn't include it. You put down how much repairs and insurance was as a cost and wrote all of it off for an EV.
Plus that covers all repairs. I did have a $500 repair on my Mazda 3. I was stopped at a red light and got rear ended. I don't count that in my calculation since it was in pay way a failure of the car. Those numbers don't seperate fender benders and such.
I can assure you that the average person is probably paying close to $500 a year of more for insurance. If an electric car is much more expensive than the equivalent IC car then the insurance will be higher as well.
And no we still have not seen the the first generation of mass market EVs yet. Notice the mass market part of that statment.
The indisputable fact is that you can not buy a good moderate priced EV today. In a year or two maybe. And the reason that you can not is the technology wasn't available three or so years ago.
Just take a look at the problems that Tesla is having with their rich boys plaything and that GM is having with the Volt.
"And those are not available yet for a car sized battery pack
BZZT, sorry, try again! *Almost all* new PHEVs and EVs coming out in significant volume in the coming years are using one of those chemistries, and the prototypes are running on them. The only glaring exception to this is Tesla."
Bzzt right You can not get them NOW.
"Why not compare it to a Lexus, Honda, Acura, or Mazda 3 or 6.
Because we're comparing fuel-efficient vehicles with guzzlers, obviously."
Well you are. I am comparing a fuel-efficient IC vehicle to an electric vehicle. Of course in this market millage sells.
My comment was about why do not have a large number of electric cars NOW. The post was stating that it was because the oil companies where paying off the car companies.
"Um, no. In 2005, the average driver spent $2,013 in gasoline and motor oil plus $2,339 on other vehicle expenses (repairs, insurance, etc) [census.gov]. Unless you have a magical car that never breaks, your car needs more than just oil and tires changed."
What you will not have to pay insurance tag and title on your elective vehicle? Do you think it will never have issues? Also good modern cars are actually very trouble free. Not all mind you and I wouldn't bet on first gen mass market electric cars to be as trouble free as they will be in the future.
As to your dismissing fuel cells. I wouldn't. Just as battery tech will improve so will fuel cells. I happen to think that for the short term that IC will continue to rule for a while.
I think we will all be surprised just how much millage people will get out of IC engines.
The reason I put down 200 miles was simple rounding. When I drive to visit the wife's family in Texas I often drive 330 miles between fill ups to try and make good time And yes that is in my Mazda 3.
Just now has battery tech gotten to the point the electric and hybrids don't suck as cars.
But sometimes what you need are NOT IN THE REPOS!
That is the problem.
Try and find an RPM for the latest verison of Postgres for the latest verison of OpenSuse.
You will not find it in any REPOS. You will have to install from source.
The REPOS system means you are at the mercy of the REPOS maintainers.
Yes but Craigslist is far from perfect.
It is hard to search nationally. Suppose I need a gas tank for a 78 CB750K. I don't care if it is local or not. Craigslist isn't as good as Ebay for that kind of thing.
As to BUY.com and other companies putting products up I just don't see that hurting to many people
I hardly ever look on Ebay for new stuff. I look for stuff I can not find any place else.
Ebay owns a chuck of craigslist.
Yes there are and I have had problems with them as well.
They work just fine as long as you only use what is in the repositories but if you don't you can break them.
What a terrible mish mash your reply is.
Resale value.
"And this is something that will almost certainly hold over into resale value; there's a reason why a Hummer, which costs 1.5 times what Prius costs, depreciates three times as fast."
Well lets take an honest look at this on.
The Hummer has terrible resale value for a lot of reasons. A big one is that it is a terrible vehical with a terrible repair history.
A Prius is a Toyota and has a great repair history. Why not compare it to a Lexus, Honda, Acura, or Mazda 3 or 6. I think you will find it still has a great resale and in large part that has to do with current price of fuel. Also a Prius isn't an electric car.
"The average car on the road is now roughly nine years old, implying an average lifespan of 18 years. Ignoring inflation on gasoline prices and interest on the purchase, this would work out to a savings of $41,400 over the lifespan of the vehicle. That's a *Lot* of money. Saying it has to cost under $20k is just stupid."
Yea you are ignoring the interest that you would have to pay on the extra money. The other thing you are forgetting is that car loans are limited to usually five years and you are ignoring the cost of a battery pack replacement. I doubt that any battery pack will last the 18 years you are perdicting for a car life span.
"Let's toss in another $500 in maintenance savings -" $500 a year? On my Mazda all I have had to do is change the oil and get new tires. Since tires are tires let's take a look at the oil changes.
At $50 each and at 6000 miles per change I would have to drive 60,000 miles a year. Yes that includes filters and what not.
"As for fillup times, you may be surprised to learn that LiPs, spinels, and titanates *can* charge in 5-10 minutes. "
And those are not available yet for a car sized battery pack plus I question the very idea of charging a Li/Poly car pack in five or ten minutes. That will out a LOT of heat.
None of those technologies are available right now.
"As for range, why on earth would you need to be able to drive 300 miles on a single charge? The standard recommendation for drivers is that you stop and stretch for five to ten minutes at least once every two hours of driving."
Where do you get that?
Anyway even if you can live with a two hour range that means from a practical point of view at least a two and half hour range. At seventy mph that puts it two hundred miles. Why two had and half hours?. You don't want to drive until your battery is flat. That extra half an hour give you time to get to an exit or get past a storm when on a trip. People do drive on trips.
The statment was why don't we have electric cars already. That is because hydrocarbons where and still are a better choice. Will they always be? Maybe or maybe not. Methanol fuel cells hold a lot of promise. I read about a Methanol IC engine that was very interesting. It was based on a VW diesel block but they added a spark plug and instead of a throttle it used EGR to control the amount of O2 available for combustion. That way it didn't use a throttle plate so it suffered no pumping losses.
It produced very low emissions and good power and very good economy. Of course Methanol is a hydrocarbon.
You like way too many zealots seem to jump to the conclusion that I am saying electric cars will never work. Not at all. What I am saying is that the reason that auto manufactures have not made them is because we didn't want them. The car makers simply make what we want them to. The reason that there are so many SUVs and big Pickups on the road is because we wanted them a bought them.
I use we because when I was car shopping a few years ago I was tempted to pick up a big SUV. I decided that a car was a better choice but I can see why they are attractive. In the end it is our choice so stop blaming the auto companies for giving us what we asked for.
Hey I would love a small pickup for just what you said.
The problem isn't people buying pickups or SUVs. The problem is people that don't need a pickup or an SUV buying them.
There is a girl at my office that lives with at home and owns a RAM 1500 Hemi just because she likes big trucks.
It never tows or hauls.
There is a family at church that has an Excursion. They have nine kids of which eight of them are adopted. They have use for an Excursion.
Again take a look at the "small" trucks you can buy today and compare them to the small trucks of the 80s.
But the thing is people where looking to lay blame but are not willing to take any responsibility. The car companies should have FORCED us to buy fuel efficient cars.
So you have never had an issue with an RPM?
You must not install anything that doesn't come with your install CD!
As I said I can manage source installs. The problem is that there isn't a Linux installer.
At best you have to find an RPM or deb for your system at worst you have to find the source tarball.
Add to that the complexity of packaging an install for the developers and you have a real mess.
Okay except we don't have that.
There is alien and that does work but being able to download a file called setup or install is just intuitive And that counts for a lot when you are talking about Aunt Tillie ready.
"Mind you as well that electric motors have bags ans bags more of torque than IC engines"
You had just about everything else correct.
That will depend on the motor. And there does get to be a weight penalty with electric mothers just like IC engines.
Sometimes it is better to spin a small motor faster and take the gearing loss.
I will bet you $10 that you will not. At least not at the price that most people can afford.
Guess what? I knew someone that bought an electric car back in I think 72!
Don't blame the car makers blame physics and customers.
The reason that liquid hydrocarbon fuels have been so popular for cars is because they are a great solution for powering cars.
Build an electric car that can take four people and luggage 300 miles on charge. Oh and the recharge time has to be five minutes, battery life has to be 150,000 miles and the cost? Under $20,000. That is what it would take to be a better car then a Mazda 3.
The real problem has nothing to do with the auto companies. It has everything to do with us.
People bought giant SUVs and Pickups just for style and the fact they felt safer. Everybody thought I was nuts because I actually like smaller cars. I don't have kids yet and I think smaller cars are more fun to drive.
Companies work on the premise that you should give the customer what they want. We wanted big SUVs and trucks and not small cars and minivans.
Now customers want more fuel efficient vehicles. It takes a while to make the change.
Now what I find funny is that back in 84 a car that went 0-60 under 10 seconds was quick.
Now that is considered slow.
I don't think so. ./configure;make;make install just fine but not everyone can.
I have no problem moving between Gnome and KDE. I have gotten to the point that I like Gnome better because it actually feels simpler to use.
I have not used KDE4 at all so things may change.
That being said I can think of a LOT more pressing needs in OSS than merging KDE and GNOME.
1. Audio. It is still a mess. Make up your minds and create a standard for that.
2. An Installer. Repositories are great if they have what you want. Yes I can deal with
I don't know but all the documentation I have found says that it was never approved in the US. She might have been a Canadian or just mistaken.
I think you may be wrong.
http://www.ibis-birthdefects.org/start/thalfact.htm
"Thalidomide was one of the first drugs recognized to cause birth defects in humans. Although thalidomide was never released in the United States,"
And here
http://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/14332_1172.asp
"What is the history of thalidomide?
Thalidomide was first prescribed in the late 1950s in Europe to treat anxiety, insomnia and, in pregnant women, morning sickness. It also was marketed in numerous other countries, including Japan, Australia and Canada. It was withdrawn from the market in the early 1960s when doctors learned that it caused devastating birth defects. About 10,000 children around the world were born with major malformations because their mothers had taken the drug during early pregnancy (2).
Until 1998, thalidomide had never been approved in the United States. This was largely due to the stubborn skepticism of FDA medical officer Frances Kelsey, MD, PhD (3). Dr. Kelsey wanted proof that it was safe for humans, particularly for the embryo. By late 1961, the drug's unique ability to cause serious human malformations was becoming clear.
The worldwide thalidomide tragedy changed the way drugs are developed, tested and regulated in the United States, significantly broadening FDA authority (3). Dr. Kelsey often is credited with sealing the FDA's reputation as the world's premier authority on food and drug safety."
I could be wrong but I think the US managed to miss this one.
We can hope. And maybe she wouldn't be so lonely if HER SON called her more. guilt guilt guilt...
Just kidding. I do hope her all the best and I hope we can all get through this election with our sanity intact.
I am not back tracking at all.
The original post stated that they wanted research that showed nanotech was safe. Nothing is 100% safe. I simply pointed out that many things that we live with everyday are not absolutely safe. Live really is a case of risk management. The problem is people seem to be very clueless about what is and is not a risk.
I am not calling for what I consider a low standard of proof at all. I am calling for a reasonable standard and frankly one that I and probably not you are qualified to quantify. I don't like reactionary fear mongers and I am willing to call them out.
As to your final statment. If you don't seriously hope that people have to deal with a web footed baby then you should shouldn't say that you do. Shouldn't a person be judged by what they say and do? I may be over sensitive since I have a sister that is a single mother that has an Autistic child with several other health problems. He was on a breathing and heart monitor as an infant. I spent many a night taking care of him and dealing with a sick child.
BTW Thalidomide wasn't used in the US. It hadn't passed FDA testing yet it was only being used in clinical studies. I guess we should give the FDA a big thumbs up for that one. It was mainly a problem in Europe.
But they can knock on your door to ask you to sign a petition.
Calling on a phone is not the same as entering your home. Buy having a phone legally you are saying that you are willing to be called. Since you do not pay for incoming calls they are not using your resources just your time.
No different than a protester that slows you do or someone taking your time asking you to sign a petition.
I am not saying it isn't a pain. Heck I was totally annoyed by some evil moronic demonic people that wanted me to sing a petition that would with hold medical services from the children if illegal immigrants! But they have the right to try and legally do something that I find extremely evil.
Get thanks what a nice fellow you are.
And a nutter that can not read to boot.
Your statment.. "you can do some basic due diligence to show that it's not horribly toxic."
And from my post.
"I am all for doing research to see what the dangers are but if you require any technology to be be proven safe then nothing will ever pass.
You can not prove anything is "safe"."
Gee it seems like I am actually all for due diligence. Just not for absolute proof of absolute safety which you can never achieve.
It is my hope that even people like you will never have to deal with a sick child. Unlike I don't wish for thing like that for anybody.
I would suggest caller id and a phone machine.
I am afraid that yes fund raising is a form of political speech and is protected.
It is annoying but not that terrible. And I am sorry to her about mothers loss. Things like that are at best a sore spot and at worse very painful.
Sorry but that is no different than people protesting or putting political signs up or stopping you to ask you to sign a petition.
You can ask them to never call you again, you can hang up on them.