Strictly speaking, they also decrease volatility. A short seller who is profitable opens positions when the stock price is higher than it should be and closes when the price drops. This means they execute a sell order at a high valuation thus pushing the price down and a buy order at a low valuation thus pushing the price up. The result is lower volatility. If the short seller doesn’t do this, they just lose money and go out of business.
The amount of regulation related to short selling is quite hefty too, so one should really be careful when making wild conjectures about how much market manipulation there is going on. Let’s not get delusional about the fact that longs, particularly the executives, the press and the governments, manipulate the market much more than some fund could ever dream of. This whole rhetoric of evil shorts who “benefit from others’ misfortune” is getting rather trite.
(I am not going to engage in this tree of quotes battle. Address the key argument and don’t waste our time. I also still don’t know what “speculators” we are talking about.)
That is all fantastic layman common sense argumentation that is so distant from the lived reality we could put it in the science fiction section of Slashdot. The fact that longs are perpetually euphoric about whatever it is they longing to the point that investment bankers have to account for a certain amount of bias based on different valuation methods (e.g. present transaction vs. market valuation) conducted by the investment bankers from across the desk does not strengthen your case. We have case after case of short sellers exposing fraudulent or semi-fraudulent practices that your “any investors” somehow ignored entirely to the point we could probably write a several tome encyclopedia about it. The most recent example you have probably heard of being Ackman and Herbalife. I am very sorry if it seems like “total bullshit” to you and you imagine these long-only valuation specialists picking apart companies left and right to account for concepts taught in first year economics, but some of us don’t have the keyboard philosopher luxury of living in your hypothetical reality.
The shorts are literally the only group who has an economic interest in scrutinizing an asset. Without this kind of rigor you get more money being thrown at fantastic enterprises like Theranos. Nobody cares that they are holding lemons as long as the price keeps rising. So, yeah, I don’t know what “flip speculators” are, but short sellers are very much beneficial to the market’s well-being and by extension our resource allocation as a society.
The issue here is that enough of the money that people get via these trading schemes has moved from the stock market to the crypto market that it is hurting them.
Citation needed. This market is as shallow as people who read fiction and think that it makes them smart.
That’s fresh coming from a doofus that raised and dropped points several times after they have been shown to be demonstrably wrong. The President is the representative of the people. It’s literally what his job is about, you uneducated slob.
In this country, the exchange rate for gold to silver has been determined by “the state” in 1792. At the very latest from that point on, “the state” had control over the “financial system” in its entirety. The idea that cash somehow protects you is even more absurd as its value has been controlled directly the lastest since the introduction of the classic gold standard in the 1870s.
Cryptocurrencies can easily be banned at which point the man on the street will want to be involved with them about as much as he wants to be involved with child pornography. Nobody outside of the “I only use Protonmail and Signal” crowd cared about crypto beyond trying to make a quick buck.
I don’t have strong views on Trump either way, but he was absolutely offering to fabricate jobs through sovereign intervention. The entirety of the Rust Belt was told that we will tariff foreign goods and “return the jobs back to America”, the most prominent example being Carrier. This is literally “the state” forcing companies to create jobs for some people at the cost of everyone else. This is day care-level economics.
Indeed, I don’t speak for my fellow citizens, because I am not an elected representative. Here is the person that my fellow citizens have elected to represent them and he does speak for me and my fellow citizens: https://www.politico.com/story... As a country, we are perfectly fine with surveillance for the purposes of security. Cash too will be abolished the moment it becomes convenient, nobody will cry about it outside of a few drug dealers, illegals and internet paranoiacs.
Frankly, I am really growing a little tired of this exchange. You seem to be very opinionated on things you obviously don’t know anything about and that is hardly much fun for me. Your entire argument boils down to “boo boo I lived in a shit country with shit institutions, so we should make the public sector as inefficient as possible and everyone who thinks otherwise will go on my boo boo list”. Like all extremist stances, it’s silly and poorly thought through. I firmly recommend you reading any introductory work on institutional economics.
It is all very romantic until you have to actually use one because some “bureaucrat” refuses to get his collection digitized and a task that would take twenty minutes on a computer takes up the whole afternoon—if you are lucky enough to work with well-organized data, that is.
The “state” as a group of representatives and public servants endowed by the democratic mandate has total control over the “financial system” already. Nobody has to give it to “them”. I and the wartest majority of my fellow citizens would like them to perform those duties as best possible, which electronic payments that trigger your paranoiac delusions are a very useful for.
Your whole premise is stupid beyond belief, not because your terminology is all over the place, but because you assume that “the people” want some kind of liberation from “the state” and “the banks”. They don’t and we have seen it time and time again. Nobody gives a shit about Bitcoin—aside from being a get rich quick scheme—encrypted messenging and whatnot. The last American election was literally about “the state” giving people jobs, either through Trump with his protectionism, Hillary with her middle class growth or Bernie with his minimum wage jobs for everyone. You are more than welcome calling every major party voter a totalitarian statist, because this is precisely what they were voting for. Or, you know, you can just fuck right off with your post-traumatic third worlder system of values and enjoy what the country the “statists” have let you live in.
I mean, sure, there is a minute difference, but we are not talking about “we charge a country ZERO to sell their goods, and they charge us 25, 50 or even 100 per cent”.
https://www.ft.com/content/2ed...
The difference is even smaller when it comes to the tariffs that US exporters actually paid in 2015 — a weighted average of 1.4 per cent on non-agricultural goods sold in the EU, and 2.1 per cent on non-agricultural exports to Canada. EU exporters to the US paid an average weighted tariff of 1.6 per cent; Canadian exporters 1.3 per cent.
So, I could be for a smaller government—which in most non-medicated Americans’ eyes would make me either a conservative or some kind of libertarian—but if I dare agree to give the said public servants tools so they could do their job instead of wasting time and resources, I am a totalitarian statist because some senile anarchist from some former “republic” sees slippery slopes everywhere? Hehehe, that’s pretty great. Quality civics right there.
That is ridiculous and you are a dumbass on so many levels. Yes, your government almost certainly -did- demonize non-mainstream opinions; that’s how all totalitarian states remain in power for as long as they do and you very well know it. Doesn’t matter if you are a Nazi, a commie or a follower of Juche. What you are trying to do is precisely that for people you disagree with under the guise of “free speech”. I may think that you are a perpetuating stupid shit, but I am not going to effectively label you as an enemy of “freedom” or some other core value in my own perverted definition thereof. That’s your favorite dictator rhetoric 101 as seen by a large number of “democratic republics of” whatever.
Yeah, sure, it’s literally a “boo boo” list. Absolutely pathetic, as is your assumption that I am a statist. At most I am corporate shill, who doesn’t like burning valuable reasourses by enabling criminals to run their enterprises for the sake of some old fart feeling like he’s being a warden of freedom on the internet.
Sure, grandpa, let’s have third world foreigners teach us about how we should run our society—obviously you did such a good job back home—and “ostracize” mainstream fucking opinions. The hilarity of the situation is priceless nonetheless. You come from a place where non-conformity was demonimized and now you try to demonize those who disagree with you. It’s like leftist extremist becoming a rightist extremist; same shit, different color. Make no mistake, you are an extremist nut, if this is your reaction to someone arguing against anonymous payments on a non-ideological basis.
Also, adding someone as a “foe” has to be by far the most embarrassing thing I have seen someone do on the internet, including the “Leave Britney Alone” guy. Just Christ, it’s a “boo boo list of people I don’t like”. How extremely and extraordinarily lame.
Can they also add an option to transfer my portfolio to their brokerage and buy frappuccinos with my Philip Morris equity and Greek 10Ys, because that’s precisely what they are doing here. It makes no sense on so many levels, although I’m certain some Bitcoiner somewhere will be excited about this and use it in the most inconvenient way imaginable.
So, like I said, you like being poor? None of the larger firms where all the money is made will pay you in cash and neither can one run a larger business without an account. I mean, knock yourself out eating from the trash can and fearing the Man and his evil banks, buddy. Please tell me that you are going to shower us some more in your financial wisdom by replying to that hilarious silver comment you’ve made earlier.
This is very much a good thing. Nikon is one of the last of the major manufacturers to finally start producing mirrorless interchangle-lens cameras. Up until this point, Sony has been the only major manufacturer producing full-frame mirrorless cameras, which many have criticized for having bad colors, bad ergonomics and what not—whether it is because they really don’t fit those users or because of the extreme tribalism when it comes to camera brands in the community is a separate issue. So now we will have two full-frame manufactures using the same sensors made by Sony in different bodies with different lenses.
This will probably make many people happy because of the fact that they can use their old glass and have access to Nikon’s support network. It will also make Nikon happy, because they now have a very good reason to release the all same lenses they have released for decades re-engineered for mirrorless’s shorter flange distance, i.e. making them smaller and lighter.
Oh man, I sure am glad I looked at your profile, buddy. The loony nature of your posts made me immediately think you were a Bitcoiner, but you turned out to be a silverbug—a weirder variant of the goldbugs—which is just a slightly older version of the economic genius that makes a Bitcoiner.
What do you think, Einstein? Have consumer prices dropped by 40% since 2012? If not, it is very much down in relation to what you can buy. I would cite the deflator or the CPI, but you since there is an overwhelming probability that you are deeply convinced that those figures are simply fabricated by “the government”, I may as well save some both us some time.
The most comedic bit about all of this is that in the said period, silver—which you have so thoughroughly researched—has actually performed even worse than gold. Not only has its value dropped further, but it also had a higher volatility during the said period, making it per definition an even worse store of value than gold.
At any rate, you would have been better off just keeping greenbacks under your mattress than buying either. Keep fighting the man with your useless metals though, bud, I’m certain once the economy collapses you will be one of the only people with enough silver to stab yourself with it. That will certainly confuse whoever finds you afterwards.
Hello fellow lunatic. Newsflash: unless you are some member of the underclass, which given your writing style you may well be, the government can already take away most of your money by freezing your bank account. They don’t, because they have no good reason to do so. Now please go back to taking your medication before you hurt yourself. |:-]
Every time I hear a story like this, I really appreciate the fact that I work in B2B. You have to be a masochist to want to spend any amount of time with the man on the street.
Right, but you must also understand that most improvements result in this sort of risk. On the most fundamental level, the government can kill you buy just turning off your water supply. I am certain people had their utilities switched off by mistake too. That isn’t a very good reason to go back to early 19th century though when the man on the street had no plumbing and used a well, or even earlier when everyone lived next to a river or a lake. It would be nuts to propose that just to be safe from the government, but that is exactly what this whole fear-mongering about the government suspending your bank account is. You can’t live in a constant fear of “the government” because somebody was accidentally put on a no-fly list for a bit or some dude in the 70s wrote a good science fiction book.
Actually, criminals are usually individuals falling under the penal code, whereas speeding typically falls under ordinances or the transportation code. Tax evasion and selling prohibited goods is almost universally treated by the penal code and is thus criminal.
Slashdot Mirror
Strictly speaking, they also decrease volatility. A short seller who is profitable opens positions when the stock price is higher than it should be and closes when the price drops. This means they execute a sell order at a high valuation thus pushing the price down and a buy order at a low valuation thus pushing the price up. The result is lower volatility. If the short seller doesn’t do this, they just lose money and go out of business.
The amount of regulation related to short selling is quite hefty too, so one should really be careful when making wild conjectures about how much market manipulation there is going on. Let’s not get delusional about the fact that longs, particularly the executives, the press and the governments, manipulate the market much more than some fund could ever dream of. This whole rhetoric of evil shorts who “benefit from others’ misfortune” is getting rather trite.
(I am not going to engage in this tree of quotes battle. Address the key argument and don’t waste our time. I also still don’t know what “speculators” we are talking about.)
That is all fantastic layman common sense argumentation that is so distant from the lived reality we could put it in the science fiction section of Slashdot. The fact that longs are perpetually euphoric about whatever it is they longing to the point that investment bankers have to account for a certain amount of bias based on different valuation methods (e.g. present transaction vs. market valuation) conducted by the investment bankers from across the desk does not strengthen your case. We have case after case of short sellers exposing fraudulent or semi-fraudulent practices that your “any investors” somehow ignored entirely to the point we could probably write a several tome encyclopedia about it. The most recent example you have probably heard of being Ackman and Herbalife. I am very sorry if it seems like “total bullshit” to you and you imagine these long-only valuation specialists picking apart companies left and right to account for concepts taught in first year economics, but some of us don’t have the keyboard philosopher luxury of living in your hypothetical reality.
/r/iamverysmart called. Said they want their mascot back.
The shorts are literally the only group who has an economic interest in scrutinizing an asset. Without this kind of rigor you get more money being thrown at fantastic enterprises like Theranos. Nobody cares that they are holding lemons as long as the price keeps rising. So, yeah, I don’t know what “flip speculators” are, but short sellers are very much beneficial to the market’s well-being and by extension our resource allocation as a society.
The issue here is that enough of the money that people get via these trading schemes has moved from the stock market to the crypto market that it is hurting them.
Citation needed. This market is as shallow as people who read fiction and think that it makes them smart.
Step 1: Buy a non-productive asset.
Step 2: Somehow miss the point that the asset is not productive and the any wealth gain one may receive is an equal wealth loss for someone else.
Step 3: Be surprised that sophisticated investors are wiping the floor with your HODL BEFORE I SODL nonsense.
That’s fresh coming from a doofus that raised and dropped points several times after they have been shown to be demonstrably wrong. The President is the representative of the people. It’s literally what his job is about, you uneducated slob.
In this country, the exchange rate for gold to silver has been determined by “the state” in 1792. At the very latest from that point on, “the state” had control over the “financial system” in its entirety. The idea that cash somehow protects you is even more absurd as its value has been controlled directly the lastest since the introduction of the classic gold standard in the 1870s.
Cryptocurrencies can easily be banned at which point the man on the street will want to be involved with them about as much as he wants to be involved with child pornography. Nobody outside of the “I only use Protonmail and Signal” crowd cared about crypto beyond trying to make a quick buck.
I don’t have strong views on Trump either way, but he was absolutely offering to fabricate jobs through sovereign intervention. The entirety of the Rust Belt was told that we will tariff foreign goods and “return the jobs back to America”, the most prominent example being Carrier. This is literally “the state” forcing companies to create jobs for some people at the cost of everyone else. This is day care-level economics.
Indeed, I don’t speak for my fellow citizens, because I am not an elected representative. Here is the person that my fellow citizens have elected to represent them and he does speak for me and my fellow citizens: https://www.politico.com/story... As a country, we are perfectly fine with surveillance for the purposes of security. Cash too will be abolished the moment it becomes convenient, nobody will cry about it outside of a few drug dealers, illegals and internet paranoiacs.
Frankly, I am really growing a little tired of this exchange. You seem to be very opinionated on things you obviously don’t know anything about and that is hardly much fun for me. Your entire argument boils down to “boo boo I lived in a shit country with shit institutions, so we should make the public sector as inefficient as possible and everyone who thinks otherwise will go on my boo boo list”. Like all extremist stances, it’s silly and poorly thought through. I firmly recommend you reading any introductory work on institutional economics.
It is all very romantic until you have to actually use one because some “bureaucrat” refuses to get his collection digitized and a task that would take twenty minutes on a computer takes up the whole afternoon—if you are lucky enough to work with well-organized data, that is.
The “state” as a group of representatives and public servants endowed by the democratic mandate has total control over the “financial system” already. Nobody has to give it to “them”. I and the wartest majority of my fellow citizens would like them to perform those duties as best possible, which electronic payments that trigger your paranoiac delusions are a very useful for.
Your whole premise is stupid beyond belief, not because your terminology is all over the place, but because you assume that “the people” want some kind of liberation from “the state” and “the banks”. They don’t and we have seen it time and time again. Nobody gives a shit about Bitcoin—aside from being a get rich quick scheme—encrypted messenging and whatnot. The last American election was literally about “the state” giving people jobs, either through Trump with his protectionism, Hillary with her middle class growth or Bernie with his minimum wage jobs for everyone. You are more than welcome calling every major party voter a totalitarian statist, because this is precisely what they were voting for. Or, you know, you can just fuck right off with your post-traumatic third worlder system of values and enjoy what the country the “statists” have let you live in.
The difference is even smaller when it comes to the tariffs that US exporters actually paid in 2015 — a weighted average of 1.4 per cent on non-agricultural goods sold in the EU, and 2.1 per cent on non-agricultural exports to Canada. EU exporters to the US paid an average weighted tariff of 1.6 per cent; Canadian exporters 1.3 per cent.
So, I could be for a smaller government—which in most non-medicated Americans’ eyes would make me either a conservative or some kind of libertarian—but if I dare agree to give the said public servants tools so they could do their job instead of wasting time and resources, I am a totalitarian statist because some senile anarchist from some former “republic” sees slippery slopes everywhere? Hehehe, that’s pretty great. Quality civics right there.
That is ridiculous and you are a dumbass on so many levels. Yes, your government almost certainly -did- demonize non-mainstream opinions; that’s how all totalitarian states remain in power for as long as they do and you very well know it. Doesn’t matter if you are a Nazi, a commie or a follower of Juche. What you are trying to do is precisely that for people you disagree with under the guise of “free speech”. I may think that you are a perpetuating stupid shit, but I am not going to effectively label you as an enemy of “freedom” or some other core value in my own perverted definition thereof. That’s your favorite dictator rhetoric 101 as seen by a large number of “democratic republics of” whatever.
Yeah, sure, it’s literally a “boo boo” list. Absolutely pathetic, as is your assumption that I am a statist. At most I am corporate shill, who doesn’t like burning valuable reasourses by enabling criminals to run their enterprises for the sake of some old fart feeling like he’s being a warden of freedom on the internet.
Sure, grandpa, let’s have third world foreigners teach us about how we should run our society—obviously you did such a good job back home—and “ostracize” mainstream fucking opinions. The hilarity of the situation is priceless nonetheless. You come from a place where non-conformity was demonimized and now you try to demonize those who disagree with you. It’s like leftist extremist becoming a rightist extremist; same shit, different color. Make no mistake, you are an extremist nut, if this is your reaction to someone arguing against anonymous payments on a non-ideological basis.
Also, adding someone as a “foe” has to be by far the most embarrassing thing I have seen someone do on the internet, including the “Leave Britney Alone” guy. Just Christ, it’s a “boo boo list of people I don’t like”. How extremely and extraordinarily lame.
Can they also add an option to transfer my portfolio to their brokerage and buy frappuccinos with my Philip Morris equity and Greek 10Ys, because that’s precisely what they are doing here. It makes no sense on so many levels, although I’m certain some Bitcoiner somewhere will be excited about this and use it in the most inconvenient way imaginable.
Added as foe and rambling about totalitarianism. Isn’t that cute. What are you five or something?
So, like I said, you like being poor? None of the larger firms where all the money is made will pay you in cash and neither can one run a larger business without an account. I mean, knock yourself out eating from the trash can and fearing the Man and his evil banks, buddy. Please tell me that you are going to shower us some more in your financial wisdom by replying to that hilarious silver comment you’ve made earlier.
This is very much a good thing. Nikon is one of the last of the major manufacturers to finally start producing mirrorless interchangle-lens cameras. Up until this point, Sony has been the only major manufacturer producing full-frame mirrorless cameras, which many have criticized for having bad colors, bad ergonomics and what not—whether it is because they really don’t fit those users or because of the extreme tribalism when it comes to camera brands in the community is a separate issue. So now we will have two full-frame manufactures using the same sensors made by Sony in different bodies with different lenses.
This will probably make many people happy because of the fact that they can use their old glass and have access to Nikon’s support network. It will also make Nikon happy, because they now have a very good reason to release the all same lenses they have released for decades re-engineered for mirrorless’s shorter flange distance, i.e. making them smaller and lighter.
It's down in relation to fiat currency...
Is it also down in relation to what it can buy?
Oh man, I sure am glad I looked at your profile, buddy. The loony nature of your posts made me immediately think you were a Bitcoiner, but you turned out to be a silverbug—a weirder variant of the goldbugs—which is just a slightly older version of the economic genius that makes a Bitcoiner.
What do you think, Einstein? Have consumer prices dropped by 40% since 2012? If not, it is very much down in relation to what you can buy. I would cite the deflator or the CPI, but you since there is an overwhelming probability that you are deeply convinced that those figures are simply fabricated by “the government”, I may as well save some both us some time.
The most comedic bit about all of this is that in the said period, silver—which you have so thoughroughly researched—has actually performed even worse than gold. Not only has its value dropped further, but it also had a higher volatility during the said period, making it per definition an even worse store of value than gold.
At any rate, you would have been better off just keeping greenbacks under your mattress than buying either. Keep fighting the man with your useless metals though, bud, I’m certain once the economy collapses you will be one of the only people with enough silver to stab yourself with it. That will certainly confuse whoever finds you afterwards.
Hello fellow lunatic. Newsflash: unless you are some member of the underclass, which given your writing style you may well be, the government can already take away most of your money by freezing your bank account. They don’t, because they have no good reason to do so. Now please go back to taking your medication before you hurt yourself. |:-]
Those services very much exist. Any bank worth their salt would have a retail banker trying to get you to invest into a security they are managing.
Every time I hear a story like this, I really appreciate the fact that I work in B2B. You have to be a masochist to want to spend any amount of time with the man on the street.
Right, but you must also understand that most improvements result in this sort of risk. On the most fundamental level, the government can kill you buy just turning off your water supply. I am certain people had their utilities switched off by mistake too. That isn’t a very good reason to go back to early 19th century though when the man on the street had no plumbing and used a well, or even earlier when everyone lived next to a river or a lake. It would be nuts to propose that just to be safe from the government, but that is exactly what this whole fear-mongering about the government suspending your bank account is. You can’t live in a constant fear of “the government” because somebody was accidentally put on a no-fly list for a bit or some dude in the 70s wrote a good science fiction book.
I absolutely agree with you on the gist of it.
Actually, criminals are usually individuals falling under the penal code, whereas speeding typically falls under ordinances or the transportation code. Tax evasion and selling prohibited goods is almost universally treated by the penal code and is thus criminal.