Same could be same for any commercial company that uses open source software. Redhat has linux, HelixCode has Gnome. TT has KDE (Look at GPL of KDE if you don't believe). To make a long story short, that is the food chain.
The reality of it, 90% of mozilla engineers paychecks come from netscape/aol. They are not forced to be there.
The fact that AOL lets players like Galeon and Eazel use GTKMozEmbed for applications is great. That is where the real value of Moz lies. Also, the platform capabilities of mozilla have not even begun to be touched yet.
Only they really know the magnitude of what they created.
;-) It will only get better, faster and more optimized. (As will IE/Opera/Konqu./etc). For me and you as the end user, thats great! Choices , remember.
Everyone had to start somewhere. If a friend didn't give me a copy of SuSE Linux 5.3 over a year and a half ago (who was given to him by a person at a booth at comdex vegas previous) I would still be ignorant to Linux.
I have since fallen in love with the box and have spent every day since using it. I have found ways to replace the tasks that I was used to doing w/Windows and slowly.. one pain at a time learn to due things like recompile the kernel, compile software. Track down and un-install a RPM that is conflicting w/another. Configure packet masquerading, basic networking.. insert a WinModem module into the kernel.. etc etc.
I am not a Linux 'guru' or 'expert', but I find it a bit childish and just plain arrogant that you believe that the average user doesnt have the curiousity or the plain determination to figure something out. Yes, there are a lot of people out there that don't have the time, energy.. or even care about technology or open source software.. or what it stands for.. but how many people out there are a hell of a lot better than any of us are waiting for the chance. I will bet that there are 12-13'year olds that will get their parents to take a chance and purchase linux.. maybe just because they heard from a friend that it's cool.. and will spend un-counted hours (because at 12-13 you have a LOT more free time than an adult...) and master the system.
Mandrake is nice.. I have been using it since 6.1... there is probably no better community to jump into the learn the foundation of the system and start to move up with.
Unfortunately it's this 'holyer than thou' attitude that scares off new members of the community that we need.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, no ill intended, but I guess I can relate with the person standing at wallmart trying to figure out if linux is worth investing in or not. I was there not to long ago.
For the first time the benchmarks where not the main focus of the article, but the ease of uses and development time in getting to market. I do stand behind their opinion of ColdFusio being something that is easy to get going and something built in one weeks time, but then you will run into the same problem w/PHP.. a bunch of code that is not reusable.
Tomcat/JAVA is a great development platform. The PagePerSecond is not that relavent because you can load balance hardware and.. frankly.. hardware is cheep compared to human resources, etc. We have a very large application that was written in Java/JSP and it's very simple to manage. We have a large code base of 'Beans' and we use the JSP for the glue to the presentation. Our group doesn't utilize the taglibs yet, as our 'Bean' base is still under heavy dev.
I do agree that there are some performance issues with Tomcat, but those are easily fixed by using something like Resin (GPL) or Orion (Commercial). Lots of small companies are looking for quick and dirty solutions that fit the budget. (Free).. Tomcat is (IMHO) the best bet, because if your application grows and grows, you will be in a better position to manage the code. (Downfall of PHP).
It's a application built on top of a database. and 1600000 tables is hardly a fair comparison. You can have 10,000 tables in mysql and not have a problem.
Has anyone actually used one of those things? I currently am using a Sony Viao F409. It has a 650mhz PIII w/15" display. Very nice, and with 2 batteries I get almost 4 hours out of the thing (Its floppy drive swaps out for an optional second battery).
Pro's of a big laptop: It's nice when it's actually on your desk, cables all undone, plugged in, re-set my network connection settings.. (I don't use DHCP in the office or at home lan). Booted the machine, plugged in my external mouse and keyboard. (No docking station for me!)
The Picturebook seems nice, with exception that you don't have the large screen. (Only a half-hight ??). This might be ok if you are plugging into a monitor at the home/office.. as 90% of my work w/my laptop is somewhere where I have an external monitor to plug into the thing.
I have upgraded my machine to 256 megs of ram which is really nice, and I have RedHat 6.2 working nicely with my USB mouse. The main problem is getting my External monitor to work correctly in XWindows, but maybe that is probably more due to my ignorance in XWin configuration than the laptop.
I guess, the whole point of my babeling.. I have purchased and invested in what I thought would be the 'Dream' laptop. It's fast and nice with a great display that runs linux very nice... As now I spend really no time programming and all my time doing network diagrams, technical specifications and network administration on it.
But despite all the great hardware on this laptop, the reality is... It's a pain in the ass to lugg around. It takes a while for the thing to boot up and shut down, etc. and I feel that I am dragging around a TON of cables everywhere I go. It costed me over £300 for memory and battery to try and increase the battery life over the pathetic 2 hours it does normally. I can't really work w/it in bed because the thing gets so damn hot sitting on my lap..
Anyway, this is from someone that has invested a very large amount of memory into a laptop. Frankly I am a bit disapointed and am considering a picturebook to replace it.
Has anyone got any real practical experience using a picturebook? It sounds to me that the battery life/size and ease of porting it around. (Just toss it in my rook-sack and take it, battery lasts the whole working day and bring it home and charge it!) No cables.. etc.
It is not the CPU but the Motherboard that can't support SMP. Maybe the MB manufacturers are waiting on a reference board or chipset from AMD? Does anyone know if the Irongate chipset is the holdback or is it simply the Motherboard configuration? (I have a feeling that the AMD motherboard chipset is not ready)
Computer 1: It's a Pentium III 550 HP NetServer.
SCSI 2 w/512 megs Ram.
I spent the whole of last night trying to get it installed over the network (didn't work). Would hang in the final process of the installation. I finally waited for the ISO to download and then tried to re-install the system w/the CD.
Everything seemed to work fine. I went through the installation process and when it came time to reboot the machine it FROZE SOLID on the 'Initializing Swap Space' message in init level 1.
I then went through and re-installed it again w/different partition settings , etc . 3 times total when I finally gave up.
I re-installed the machine with RedHat 6.2 and it worked fine. So much for my daring attempt at a x.0 release.. will wait for the x.1
...
I have a home machine that I use as a development server and it is a Athlon 750 w/512 megs of ram. Not a SCSI system but a UDMA/66 IDE System.
The machine was able to install correctly, but the interesting thing is durring times of VERY heavy stress to the system.. (Seti@Home or 3D Screen Saver) the machine hard locks. I have been running Mandrake 7.0 on this machine for 4 months and have never had a lockup.
I am guessing that there is a problem somewhere in the kernel that they provided or one of the libraries that they have compiled in that is causing some of these problems.
I have read as well in the kernel mailing list that there is a bit of hoop-da-la about the version of the compiler that RedHat uses.
Now, they are trying to get support in for the 2.4.x kernel as why I am trying to be brave in installing the system as a x.0 release. I believe as it is a bit of a moving target for redhat, there should be a bit of patience and support for them.
I do expect to see a lot of problems and issues as the 2.4 kernel roles out and everyone makes the necesary transitions to make everything run very smooth.
My opinion is simple. If you want rock solid, no bugs.. or at least worked out stable distro's.. don't go with a release that is not only a x.0 release, but a 1 week old release.
Use soemthing that is tried and tested.. such as Debian X (I am not a debian user, but they are a bit slower to release and tend to be more reliable (from what I hear)).. or use RH 6.2. I have had production machines running 6.2 for some time without any problems.
The nice thing about RH 7.0 is you can help them out. You can install it yourself (assuming it boots.. (see case 1)) and re-install packages, recompile the kernel.. etc.
It is nice having all the latest and greatest libraries and such installed. It seems that the unfortunatley my RH 6.2 servers are going to be running RH 6.2 much longer than I anticipated based on my initial reaction though. (I will wait for the 7.1 version for any more non-private use..)
Be easy on RH as they do contribute a lot to the comunity. I don't believe that they should be lynched for taking chances on new technologies.
If you measure the transactions per second on a high end dual CPU linux / BSD system.. or the cost per 'page view' on a java app server.. and get a cost per transaction, or a cost per page view.. you would be shocked at what a cluster of well designed and load balanced linux boxen will do over a few enterprise sun servers.
Though we sun may have 'reliable' hardware that has uptimes of years, I have a mail server running RH 6.0 that has about a 1 year uptime on it. (I know I should be patching kernel, etc.. but it's running fine for what it does..).
I have web servers that stay up and running for 90-180 days without so much as a hickup.. and are rebooted for nothing more than hardware and kernel upgrades.
If you buy good linux supported hardware, you shouldn't have any abnormal problems with faulty junk. (But if you buy cheep garbage, of course you will have problems...)
As for point of failure, I would be my server farm any day on a pack of 5 linux boxen that have proper failover than 1 monster sun behemoth.
To make it simple, sun sells enterprise solutions with an enterprise pricetag. Most corporations could get along fine with something that commodity hardware and linux, but corps seem to be funny that way and love to spend their enterprise budgets.
As to me and my company, we are quite happy with our sun-free environment. With large disk support comming and improved raw-io to disk, the database argument will not be really there.
I wonder if they tried to beat RedHat to their 7.0 release.. it would of almost been better for the excitement of RH7 release to calm down a little bit.. but I think that it may of rained on their parade.
"Those who would sacrafice freedom for security deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
--------------------
Freenet really needs the support of the community.
on
Freenet 0.3 Released
·
· Score: 3
For freenet to really take off, it's going to need the support of the community. We need to all install freenet nodes where we can to ensure the growth and acceptance. The more people that get on the freenet, the more the network itself can be tested and stressed.
If we all talk about it, it will never happen. But we have the power to make it as important and standard as anyone. Look at our plans of world domination with Linux!:)
If we can kindle the same passion for a secure and safe internet, I am sure that the freenet idea can be driven to a high standard of acceptance. I am sure the last thing any control-seeking organization wants to have happen is the mass acceptance of a decentralized encrypted network.
it's very easy to download and install.
It doesn't chew up much bandwidth to run a node.
I doubt it will be long before someone hacks in a Freenet client into Mozilla, or another open source browser such as Conqu or Galeon.
I really believe that it's quite important for the community to rally behind this effort... if we don't accept it, nobody will.
I guess that it's a bit unfortunate you do not work in a workgroup environment that is switched on enough to use it properly.
I love not having to pickup the phone, launch an email client or run up to the the second or third floor of the building to speak to a coligue.
As an American living in Europe I am quite happy that IMing brings me closer to my friends and family almost on a daily basis w/out shelling out money to the telcos for international phone charges.
I have not explored 'public' chat rooms w/AOL or ICQ.. but I do believe that it would be an easy way to expand my network of friends as well. (It's doesn't seem to have the politics associated w/IRC.. etc)
I am excited about any product that brings a bit more humanity and warmth to something traditionally in terms of rich human interaction. For better or worse, IM is here to stay. Be happy you don't have to have Win/* to use it.
The chip is STILL 32 bit. (Even my game console does better)
The intel pentium chip is a 78 firebird that is falling apart.. but keeps getting attention. I hope that the IA64 or new AMD chip will finally get us out of this 32bit and bus bottleneck rutt.
Damn Pentium chips.. but we keep buying the stupid things. I don't think they are ever going to get the message that the current CISC/32bit archetecture is old and dead. *sigh*
I must admit that I find myself browsing with Galeon more than I do with Mozilla these days. The simple and clean interface design out-weigh the 'Heavy' and feature full interface of Moz.
The biggest problem with Galeon is the steps involved in getting it to work. (They couldn't distribute the Mozilla compontents).
Using Galeon I get far fewer crashes (and Galeon is still in Alpha) than w/Mozilla or Netscape. It is MUCH faster than Mozilla and is close to being up to speed with Netscape with application zippiness. (GTK is fast!):)
Give it a look, I believe that they are moving quicker than the Konquerer group because they are leveraging a rendering engine that WORKS.
Too bad that Opera never really happened. What a great little browser. Hehehee... long live open source.
Isn't every debate w/Linux a mini holy war of it's own? I can't count how many snide remarks I have heard about BSD/Linux camp.. Gnome/KDE.. VFS/ReiserFS.. GPL/BSD.. etc. etc. etc.
I would venture to say that because people put their hearts into the projects.. in a profound sense.. are very vindictive against anything else.
For example, what would you say if there was a 'Ask Slashdot' about which is your favorite Microsoft Product?.. Rob would get a mail-bomb if that went through..
anyways.... I have never seen a more emotional holy-war driven passionate band of cowboys in my life. I hope it doesn't ever change!:)
Slashdot Mirror
Same could be same for any commercial company that uses open source software. Redhat has linux, HelixCode has Gnome. TT has KDE (Look at GPL of KDE if you don't believe). To make a long story short, that is the food chain.
The reality of it, 90% of mozilla engineers paychecks come from netscape/aol. They are not forced to be there.
The fact that AOL lets players like Galeon and Eazel use GTKMozEmbed for applications is great. That is where the real value of Moz lies. Also, the platform capabilities of mozilla have not even begun to be touched yet.
Only they really know the magnitude of what they created.
;-) It will only get better, faster and more optimized. (As will IE/Opera/Konqu./etc). For me and you as the end user, thats great! Choices , remember.
--------------------
It's great that they put something out.. they really had to. Now lets hope that they can put the service updates, etc. very quickly.
Congradulations to the Mozilla team for the hard work.
--------------------
Everyone had to start somewhere. If a friend didn't give me a copy of SuSE Linux 5.3 over a year and a half ago (who was given to him by a person at a booth at comdex vegas previous) I would still be ignorant to Linux.
I have since fallen in love with the box and have spent every day since using it. I have found ways to replace the tasks that I was used to doing w/Windows and slowly
I am not a Linux 'guru' or 'expert', but I find it a bit childish and just plain arrogant that you believe that the average user doesnt have the curiousity or the plain determination to figure something out. Yes, there are a lot of people out there that don't have the time, energy.. or even care about technology or open source software.. or what it stands for.. but how many people out there are a hell of a lot better than any of us are waiting for the chance. I will bet that there are 12-13'year olds that will get their parents to take a chance and purchase linux
Mandrake is nice.. I have been using it since 6.1
Unfortunately it's this 'holyer than thou' attitude that scares off new members of the community that we need.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, no ill intended, but I guess I can relate with the person standing at wallmart trying to figure out if linux is worth investing in or not. I was there not to long ago.
.02
--------------------
For the first time the benchmarks where not the main focus of the article, but the ease of uses and development time in getting to market. I do stand behind their opinion of ColdFusio being something that is easy to get going and something built in one weeks time, but then you will run into the same problem w/PHP.. a bunch of code that is not reusable.
Tomcat/JAVA is a great development platform. The PagePerSecond is not that relavent because you can load balance hardware and
I do agree that there are some performance issues with Tomcat, but those are easily fixed by using something like Resin (GPL) or Orion (Commercial). Lots of small companies are looking for quick and dirty solutions that fit the budget. (Free)
--------------------
It's a application built on top of a database. and 1600000 tables is hardly a fair comparison. You can have 10,000 tables in mysql and not have a problem.
SAP runs great w/MS SQL Server or Oracle.
--------------------
Geez.. you spent a little longer than most trolls w/that respnose.
Almost clever.
--------------------
Has anyone actually used one of those things? I currently am using a Sony Viao F409. It has a 650mhz PIII w/15" display. Very nice, and with 2 batteries I get almost 4 hours out of the thing (Its floppy drive swaps out for an optional second battery).
Pro's of a big laptop: It's nice when it's actually on your desk, cables all undone, plugged in, re-set my network connection settings.. (I don't use DHCP in the office or at home lan). Booted the machine, plugged in my external mouse and keyboard. (No docking station for me!)
The Picturebook seems nice, with exception that you don't have the large screen. (Only a half-hight ??). This might be ok if you are plugging into a monitor at the home/office
I have upgraded my machine to 256 megs of ram which is really nice, and I have RedHat 6.2 working nicely with my USB mouse. The main problem is getting my External monitor to work correctly in XWindows, but maybe that is probably more due to my ignorance in XWin configuration than the laptop.
I guess, the whole point of my babeling.. I have purchased and invested in what I thought would be the 'Dream' laptop. It's fast and nice with a great display that runs linux very nice... As now I spend really no time programming and all my time doing network diagrams, technical specifications and network administration on it.
But despite all the great hardware on this laptop, the reality is
Anyway, this is from someone that has invested a very large amount of memory into a laptop. Frankly I am a bit disapointed and am considering a picturebook to replace it.
Has anyone got any real practical experience using a picturebook? It sounds to me that the battery life/size and ease of porting it around. (Just toss it in my rook-sack and take it, battery lasts the whole working day and bring it home and charge it!) No cables.. etc.
Anyway, don't want to run down a fools paradise.
;-)
--------------------
It is not the CPU but the Motherboard that can't support SMP. Maybe the MB manufacturers are waiting on a reference board or chipset from AMD? Does anyone know if the Irongate chipset is the holdback or is it simply the Motherboard configuration? (I have a feeling that the AMD motherboard chipset is not ready)
--------------------
Does this mean that I am not a geek? I am surprised Katz hasn't written on the subject.
--------------------
Computer 1: It's a Pentium III 550 HP NetServer.
SCSI 2 w/512 megs Ram.
I spent the whole of last night trying to get it installed over the network (didn't work). Would hang in the final process of the installation. I finally waited for the ISO to download and then tried to re-install the system w/the CD.
Everything seemed to work fine. I went through the installation process and when it came time to reboot the machine it FROZE SOLID on the 'Initializing Swap Space' message in init level 1.
I then went through and re-installed it again w/different partition settings , etc . 3 times total when I finally gave up.
I re-installed the machine with RedHat 6.2 and it worked fine. So much for my daring attempt at a x.0 release
...
I have a home machine that I use as a development server and it is a Athlon 750 w/512 megs of ram. Not a SCSI system but a UDMA/66 IDE System.
The machine was able to install correctly, but the interesting thing is durring times of VERY heavy stress to the system.. (Seti@Home or 3D Screen Saver) the machine hard locks. I have been running Mandrake 7.0 on this machine for 4 months and have never had a lockup.
I am guessing that there is a problem somewhere in the kernel that they provided or one of the libraries that they have compiled in that is causing some of these problems.
I have read as well in the kernel mailing list that there is a bit of hoop-da-la about the version of the compiler that RedHat uses.
Now, they are trying to get support in for the 2.4.x kernel as why I am trying to be brave in installing the system as a x.0 release. I believe as it is a bit of a moving target for redhat, there should be a bit of patience and support for them.
I do expect to see a lot of problems and issues as the 2.4 kernel roles out and everyone makes the necesary transitions to make everything run very smooth.
My opinion is simple. If you want rock solid, no bugs.. or at least worked out stable distro's.. don't go with a release that is not only a x.0 release, but a 1 week old release.
Use soemthing that is tried and tested.. such as Debian X (I am not a debian user, but they are a bit slower to release and tend to be more reliable (from what I hear))
The nice thing about RH 7.0 is you can help them out. You can install it yourself (assuming it boots.. (see case 1)) and re-install packages, recompile the kernel.. etc.
It is nice having all the latest and greatest libraries and such installed. It seems that the unfortunatley my RH 6.2 servers are going to be running RH 6.2 much longer than I anticipated based on my initial reaction though. (I will wait for the 7.1 version for any more non-private use..)
Be easy on RH as they do contribute a lot to the comunity. I don't believe that they should be lynched for taking chances on new technologies.
--------------------
KDE and Gnome is also a paradigm in user interface and design. I don't see XFce quite as grandeur in mission.
... maybe not even that.
I believe that XFce would be better compared with Enlightenment, WindowMaker, etc.
XFce is a FAST alternative to Gnome/KDE/Bloat and runs very very well on older hardware.
I might add that Gnome supports XFce as a alternative window manager.
--------------------
If you measure the transactions per second on a high end dual CPU linux / BSD system
Though we sun may have 'reliable' hardware that has uptimes of years, I have a mail server running RH 6.0 that has about a 1 year uptime on it. (I know I should be patching kernel, etc.. but it's running fine for what it does..).
I have web servers that stay up and running for 90-180 days without so much as a hickup
If you buy good linux supported hardware, you shouldn't have any abnormal problems with faulty junk. (But if you buy cheep garbage, of course you will have problems...)
As for point of failure, I would be my server farm any day on a pack of 5 linux boxen that have proper failover than 1 monster sun behemoth.
To make it simple, sun sells enterprise solutions with an enterprise pricetag. Most corporations could get along fine with something that commodity hardware and linux, but corps seem to be funny that way and love to spend their enterprise budgets.
As to me and my company, we are quite happy with our sun-free environment. With large disk support comming and improved raw-io to disk, the database argument will not be really there.
IA64 will change things as well.
£.02
--------------------
I wonder if they tried to beat RedHat to their 7.0 release.. it would of almost been better for the excitement of RH7 release to calm down a little bit.. but I think that it may of rained on their parade.
--------------------
"Those who would sacrafice freedom for security deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
--------------------
For freenet to really take off, it's going to need the support of the community. We need to all install freenet nodes where we can to ensure the growth and acceptance. The more people that get on the freenet, the more the network itself can be tested and stressed.
:)
If we all talk about it, it will never happen. But we have the power to make it as important and standard as anyone. Look at our plans of world domination with Linux!
If we can kindle the same passion for a secure and safe internet, I am sure that the freenet idea can be driven to a high standard of acceptance. I am sure the last thing any control-seeking organization wants to have happen is the mass acceptance of a decentralized encrypted network.
it's very easy to download and install.
It doesn't chew up much bandwidth to run a node.
I doubt it will be long before someone hacks in a Freenet client into Mozilla, or another open source browser such as Conqu or Galeon.
I really believe that it's quite important for the community to rally behind this effort... if we don't accept it, nobody will.
--------------------
I guess that it's a bit unfortunate you do not work in a workgroup environment that is switched on enough to use it properly.
I love not having to pickup the phone, launch an email client or run up to the the second or third floor of the building to speak to a coligue.
As an American living in Europe I am quite happy that IMing brings me closer to my friends and family almost on a daily basis w/out shelling out money to the telcos for international phone charges.
I have not explored 'public' chat rooms w/AOL or ICQ
I am excited about any product that brings a bit more humanity and warmth to something traditionally in terms of rich human interaction. For better or worse, IM is here to stay. Be happy you don't have to have Win/* to use it.
--------------------
Sort of an ambiguous question.
--------------------
Ok, I guess I have not slept enough later.
Sorry for the rant.
--------------------
You should try using the nightly builds.. you will be shocked. I must say that it's running amazingly better now than the M17 build.
I don't know what bug(s) they fixed but I must say I am quite impressed with the nightly builds the past couple of days.
They have also put a new skin on the distribution and it looks GREAT.
--------------------
The internal core is faster
The Bus is the same
The Ram is Rambus
The HD is still not really faster
The chip is STILL 32 bit. (Even my game console does better)
The intel pentium chip is a 78 firebird that is falling apart
Damn Pentium chips.. but we keep buying the stupid things. I don't think they are ever going to get the message that the current CISC/32bit archetecture is old and dead. *sigh*
--------------------
Did anyone else here glue themselves to the old D&D cartoon when they where kids? I would -love- to get that movie collection on DVD.
I wonder if any TV networks still cary it... oh well.
Memories......
--------------------
I would love to have a WORKING browser.
I would love to be able to listen and watch windows media.
I would like to have a CHOICE to use IE or NOT use ie.
I just so happen to enjoy the browsing experience of IE
I would love to be able to do this without launching VMWare or dual booting. It lets me stay inside of my favorite OS!
--------------------
I must admit that I find myself browsing with Galeon more than I do with Mozilla these days. The simple and clean interface design out-weigh the 'Heavy' and feature full interface of Moz.
The biggest problem with Galeon is the steps involved in getting it to work. (They couldn't distribute the Mozilla compontents).
Using Galeon I get far fewer crashes (and Galeon is still in Alpha) than w/Mozilla or Netscape. It is MUCH faster than Mozilla and is close to being up to speed with Netscape with application zippiness. (GTK is fast!)
Give it a look, I believe that they are moving quicker than the Konquerer group because they are leveraging a rendering engine that WORKS.
Too bad that Opera never really happened. What a great little browser. Hehehee... long live open source.
--------------------
I tried Helix a few days ago.. and I am just not impressed. Eye candy is great, but for stable work environment.. come on.
--------------------
Isn't every debate w/Linux a mini holy war of it's own? I can't count how many snide remarks I have heard about BSD/Linux camp
I would venture to say that because people put their hearts into the projects
For example, what would you say if there was a 'Ask Slashdot' about which is your favorite Microsoft Product?.. Rob would get a mail-bomb if that went through..
anyways.... I have never seen a more emotional holy-war driven passionate band of cowboys in my life. I hope it doesn't ever change!
--------------------