I'm just curious, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to (obviously), but which country do you reside in? I'm mostly asking this because I've always felt the US was a little too... American? for me.. but I don't have enough worldly experience to really be able to judge where might be more to my tastes. So I'm curious of this liberal place you describe, and perhaps one day I can visit it. (I'm not trying to troll or start an Anti/Pro US flame-war, I'm genuinely curious.)
Why shouldn't I? People come up with all kinds of odd screen names and aren't asked for explanations regularly. I happen to think pigs are kind of interesting, in a vague 'I can't think up a screen name' kind of sense.
Fleshy carbon bags protesting in city streets? I can't think of a more effective tool than a tank for this situation. Nothing else will suffice, not tear gas nor riot shields NOTHING.
I'm curious as to how this would work, would it be on a volunteer based system with lots of speed dating, a lottery raffle to forced courtship or more of a russian bride type situation?
What about posters that are female but don't announce it? I suppose I mean to ask if you mean talk in the verbal sense or in a more general 'communicate' sense.
If someone isn't moderating which "popular choice" words are added in the describe the image, I'm pretty sure we're going to end up with a few common but juvenile and irrelevant choices. I'm sure you can deduce a few of these on your own. Perhaps have these barred from the start?
While I applaud your wit, I guarantee there are more people out there that don't share that quality with you than those that do. So instead of hearing how the blind and elderly can't fill out a captcha, soon the complainers will be the idiots who can't get on the CNN forums. I'm willing to bet the idiots can whine louder, in greater numbers. (Then again if they can't get on the 'internet' to whine, where will they do it?)
Normally I'm mixed on my NRA type stances, but if they wanted to use lead ammunition on PETA morons I think I'd support that. Maybe that could be their new campaign since the PETA lovers hate them anyways, and it could bring in some 'on the fence' gun control types. Hm.
I'm really tempted to try something now, because I'm pretty sure if I asked 20 of my old coworkers "What color was George Washington's favorite white horse?" at least half would just give me a blank stare, followed by "Well.... How would I know that?"/sigh
The good side of that though, is I really don't mind the idea of filtering those types of opinions off the internet.
I have to admit, I read the beginning of the segment - "The National Rifle Association has launched a website defending the use of lead ammunition against scientists and environmental organizations who argue... " to mean the NRA made a website that defended the ideal of them being able to use lead ammunition against (as in to shoot) the scientists and environmental organizations that argue with them.
I'm pretty sure it has to be at a reasonable salary determined by a 'prevailing wage'.
"The prevailing wage rate is defined as the average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment." : http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wages.cfm
I.e. They would have to offer her the job, at the average market value wage and if she declined they could then seek H1B1 employees. That's my understanding at least.
I think a lot of it comes down to the type of people that are likely to want the type of power being a member of government provides are already highly susceptible to greed and corruption. Obviously there may be exceptions, but I think for the most part it's in their nature that once they get a small taste of the spoils they yearn for more uncontrollably.
They may go in with pure intentions, but all the people that I've met throughout college that eventually wanted to be a senator, congressman, governor, etc were always the same type of arrogant, corruptible douche canoe. That's just my personal experience and thoughts though.
Nope, not a single bit of time off for our dear little middle class worker. He gets two days per week (assuming they don't do the whole 7 day workweek, 5-6 hours per day lovely scheme most big box chains like to do). If he behaves really well they might let him set up a cot in the backroom that he can rotate sleeping in with other workers, so he doesn't have to go home each night. Maybe
I have absolutely no interest in walking around in designer clothes, driving a Ferrari or hell even having a spare bedroom. All I want is a studio apartment (closest one to where I live is 50 miles away, minimum here is a 1 bedroom), clothes on my back, health taken care of and a spare $50 every month after my savings to buy a new game or two. I don't want kids, I don't want a dog, I don't want organic produce, I don't want Starbucks coffee. I'm not looking for a lot, but it's becoming harder and harder to maintain even that type of lifestyle and I think that's ridiculous.
Yes, yes, call me entitled. "When I was your age we didn't have video games!" if you will, but as AC said it seems a bit silly to assume everyone is out to become the next *insert FotM celebrity*. Some of us just want to be happy and not have to - stand/walk for 12 hours a day in 90 heat just to be a cog in a machine for a paycheck that may or may not even cover the lifestyle I referred to.
It's sad but keep in mind in those days things were a bit different. A woman's main goal in the 1950s was to get married and have kids. She didn't care about going to college or having a career so much. Men were usually able to find a steady (albeit maybe crappy) job that would support him and her, they could have children and a house. If you didn't have these things by your 30s you were an old maid or bachelor and obviously had some type of dysfunction. That's what old TV shows keep telling me anyways =P
I'd rather the general populace live with their parents for an extra decade (albeit not due to finances would be preferable, but it's reality) than everyone decide at 20 to say "Screw college, I'll work at McDonalds forever, find a wife and knock her up a few times. That's what they did in the 1950s right? Living the dream." It's not realistic now to be able to afford that type of life for most people.
I've had my fair share of part time and full time minimum wage jobs while going through college. Anything from computers sales, pharmacy technician to cashier. At each and everyone of these big box type jobs, regardless of whether I was full time or part time the moment you said you couldn't work on certain days your hours would get slashed. Being in school it required a lot of brown nosing with whoever was making the schedule (not to mention being the hardest worker, always showing up, offering to pick up extra shifts, etc etc) to maintain any semblance of reasonable hours.
If you try to work two jobs, well it's near about impossible usually. They'll both try to give you your schedule a week or two before and every week they'll be completely different, at least in my experience. Try to tell them well I can only work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and I guarantee you'll hear nonstop "well we aren't accepting availability changes" or "well we hired you to be always available" or some other BS excuse. Try to find a job without open availability? Good luck, you'll need it (at least in the county I live in).
Hmmm, I didn't consider that aspect. Being non-married and childfree it didn't even cross my mind they'd start considering (albeit a bit deviously) that middle class would now include two working spouses.
So instead of the 1950s when only men worked and they made let's say $48k, now the women can work for 40 hours too. Since there's double the employees, everyone gets half wages but it "works out" because the family as a unit still makes the same amount they needed. Just now the corporation gets 80 hours of labor for the same amount of pay.
I understand this, and in a small percentage of communities perhaps $24k is enough to live and flourish. The term to me (and this is my personal view of it, not the Wikipedia definition) has always meant that a middle class person had anywhere from enough money to comfortably live (think in terms of enough that you could save for a rainy day while living a normal life, not a choosing visiting the doctor vs. rent every month type of lifestyle) all the way to comfortably enjoying life (you'd have enough to put your kids through college should you choose to, not necessarily the nicest private schools, but through public school for say 4 years).
It seems these days, or perhaps it has always been this way seeing as I'm not very old, that middle class consists of enough to barely survive. You paid rent and aren't on food stamps? Middle class! So I suppose by what you explained then yes, $24k in some areas could consists of a very low, but still possible middle class, aka the working class. Perhaps that's just my age showing, or my ignorance. It seemed to me that the line between poverty and middle class was much more defined in the past.
I just find it hard to believe that in most places a person can afford that typical american dream middle class lifestyle (modest house, modest car, modest savings, modest clothes, 2.5 kids, etc etc) on $24k a year. (At least in the places likely to supply the job you would need to make the $24k a year example.) Again, sorry if my ignorance of the world is showing too much, I just feel the article is an unjust phrasing of middle class that will influence most people into believing something is flourishing that isn't quite there. =)
Where I live jobs are hard to come by. That is if you're not looking to work at a fast food chain or tourist spot and want something to match your masters or bachelors you worked so hard for. Even if you do find something that vaguely fits your field at best you'll make $9-10 and hour, but that's just the experience myself and those I know have had.
That being said the cost of living isn't terrible, but it's incredibly high considering what the average wage is locally. Then again I live in the cesspool that is Florida, so perhaps it's my own fault for not seeking greener pastures.
When did ~$24k gross a year become middle class? Did I miss a memo or have I been living in fantasy land?
(11.50 per hour * 40 hours per week * 52 weeks)
Been there, done that. I had it get very infected (it's amazing how quickly it occurs) and went to my dentist, he flushed it out and gave me a rinse for an ungodly amount of money. Since then they've fully erupted so for now they're not as likely to get an infection as far as I know, however they are still trying to adjust space wise and I'm severely concerned they'll crack my other teeth. Plus wisdom teeth are so much more likely to just rot especially when they're harder to reach in terms of how they're placed (mine are at the most bizarre angles).
Though the closest dental school to me is quite a ways away, it might be worth a phone call and a weekend stay at a hotel. Definitely good advice, thanks. =)
I surprise myself by agreeing with this. I usually am not personally fond of people spewing profanity from their faces, but I also won't be the person to tell you not to. Do whatever you want, your words don't really offend me and I don't care all that much.
My biggest issue is with people who think they need to child proof the world. Not all of us want children, not all of us care about your crouch spawn and I sure as hell am not going to change my behavior or what I read or watch or say because your precious Timmy can't handle a few F-bombs. I'm sure he hears them all the time when these 'It takes a community' parents fight, and I'm damned sure his friends and the TV are telling him the latest and newest.
So as gstoddart said, "Fuck that. Fuck your censorship. Fuck YOU."
I've never understood how things like this weren't sexist as well. Are the elderly not family? Are husbands not family? At my school we had (past tense) an organization called "the women's center" that would help women find financial aid and loan out books free of charge. I'm not opposed to feminism or women's rights, but isn't that just as sexist? Like black history month and affirmative action are racist?
Maybe I'm just ignorant, I'm sure if that's the case someone here will be more than happy to inform me.
The lower cash price might also be due to the fact that the hospital knows if they charge average Bob who makes $13k a year at his minimum wage job $30k for a surgery they'll never see a dime. Charge him $1.3k and they'll see it eventually.
At least I suppose that would be their logic in that situation, since healthcare bills don't affect his credit (So they say, maybe a misconception? A common one I'm sure average Bob would believe even if it is) so he would have no incentive to care about an astronomical (to him) bill.
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I'm just curious, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to (obviously), but which country do you reside in? I'm mostly asking this because I've always felt the US was a little too... American? for me.. but I don't have enough worldly experience to really be able to judge where might be more to my tastes. So I'm curious of this liberal place you describe, and perhaps one day I can visit it. (I'm not trying to troll or start an Anti/Pro US flame-war, I'm genuinely curious.)
Why shouldn't I? People come up with all kinds of odd screen names and aren't asked for explanations regularly. I happen to think pigs are kind of interesting, in a vague 'I can't think up a screen name' kind of sense.
You can assume all day, for all you know I'm a cat on my owner's keyboard typing severely lucky random chains of key-presses.
Fleshy carbon bags protesting in city streets? I can't think of a more effective tool than a tank for this situation. Nothing else will suffice, not tear gas nor riot shields NOTHING.
I'm curious as to how this would work, would it be on a volunteer based system with lots of speed dating, a lottery raffle to forced courtship or more of a russian bride type situation?
What about posters that are female but don't announce it? I suppose I mean to ask if you mean talk in the verbal sense or in a more general 'communicate' sense.
If someone isn't moderating which "popular choice" words are added in the describe the image, I'm pretty sure we're going to end up with a few common but juvenile and irrelevant choices. I'm sure you can deduce a few of these on your own. Perhaps have these barred from the start?
While I applaud your wit, I guarantee there are more people out there that don't share that quality with you than those that do. So instead of hearing how the blind and elderly can't fill out a captcha, soon the complainers will be the idiots who can't get on the CNN forums. I'm willing to bet the idiots can whine louder, in greater numbers. (Then again if they can't get on the 'internet' to whine, where will they do it?)
Normally I'm mixed on my NRA type stances, but if they wanted to use lead ammunition on PETA morons I think I'd support that. Maybe that could be their new campaign since the PETA lovers hate them anyways, and it could bring in some 'on the fence' gun control types. Hm.
I'm really tempted to try something now, because I'm pretty sure if I asked 20 of my old coworkers "What color was George Washington's favorite white horse?" at least half would just give me a blank stare, followed by "Well.... How would I know that?" /sigh
The good side of that though, is I really don't mind the idea of filtering those types of opinions off the internet.
I have to admit, I read the beginning of the segment - "The National Rifle Association has launched a website defending the use of lead ammunition against scientists and environmental organizations who argue ... " to mean the NRA made a website that defended the ideal of them being able to use lead ammunition against (as in to shoot) the scientists and environmental organizations that argue with them.
I think I need more coffee today.
I'm pretty sure it has to be at a reasonable salary determined by a 'prevailing wage'.
"The prevailing wage rate is defined as the average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment." : http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wages.cfm
I.e. They would have to offer her the job, at the average market value wage and if she declined they could then seek H1B1 employees. That's my understanding at least.
I think a lot of it comes down to the type of people that are likely to want the type of power being a member of government provides are already highly susceptible to greed and corruption. Obviously there may be exceptions, but I think for the most part it's in their nature that once they get a small taste of the spoils they yearn for more uncontrollably.
They may go in with pure intentions, but all the people that I've met throughout college that eventually wanted to be a senator, congressman, governor, etc were always the same type of arrogant, corruptible douche canoe. That's just my personal experience and thoughts though.
Nope, not a single bit of time off for our dear little middle class worker. He gets two days per week (assuming they don't do the whole 7 day workweek, 5-6 hours per day lovely scheme most big box chains like to do). If he behaves really well they might let him set up a cot in the backroom that he can rotate sleeping in with other workers, so he doesn't have to go home each night. Maybe
I have absolutely no interest in walking around in designer clothes, driving a Ferrari or hell even having a spare bedroom. All I want is a studio apartment (closest one to where I live is 50 miles away, minimum here is a 1 bedroom), clothes on my back, health taken care of and a spare $50 every month after my savings to buy a new game or two. I don't want kids, I don't want a dog, I don't want organic produce, I don't want Starbucks coffee. I'm not looking for a lot, but it's becoming harder and harder to maintain even that type of lifestyle and I think that's ridiculous.
Yes, yes, call me entitled. "When I was your age we didn't have video games!" if you will, but as AC said it seems a bit silly to assume everyone is out to become the next *insert FotM celebrity*. Some of us just want to be happy and not have to - stand/walk for 12 hours a day in 90 heat just to be a cog in a machine for a paycheck that may or may not even cover the lifestyle I referred to.
It's sad but keep in mind in those days things were a bit different. A woman's main goal in the 1950s was to get married and have kids. She didn't care about going to college or having a career so much. Men were usually able to find a steady (albeit maybe crappy) job that would support him and her, they could have children and a house. If you didn't have these things by your 30s you were an old maid or bachelor and obviously had some type of dysfunction. That's what old TV shows keep telling me anyways =P
I'd rather the general populace live with their parents for an extra decade (albeit not due to finances would be preferable, but it's reality) than everyone decide at 20 to say "Screw college, I'll work at McDonalds forever, find a wife and knock her up a few times. That's what they did in the 1950s right? Living the dream." It's not realistic now to be able to afford that type of life for most people.
I've had my fair share of part time and full time minimum wage jobs while going through college. Anything from computers sales, pharmacy technician to cashier. At each and everyone of these big box type jobs, regardless of whether I was full time or part time the moment you said you couldn't work on certain days your hours would get slashed. Being in school it required a lot of brown nosing with whoever was making the schedule (not to mention being the hardest worker, always showing up, offering to pick up extra shifts, etc etc) to maintain any semblance of reasonable hours.
If you try to work two jobs, well it's near about impossible usually. They'll both try to give you your schedule a week or two before and every week they'll be completely different, at least in my experience. Try to tell them well I can only work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and I guarantee you'll hear nonstop "well we aren't accepting availability changes" or "well we hired you to be always available" or some other BS excuse. Try to find a job without open availability? Good luck, you'll need it (at least in the county I live in).
Hmmm, I didn't consider that aspect. Being non-married and childfree it didn't even cross my mind they'd start considering (albeit a bit deviously) that middle class would now include two working spouses.
So instead of the 1950s when only men worked and they made let's say $48k, now the women can work for 40 hours too. Since there's double the employees, everyone gets half wages but it "works out" because the family as a unit still makes the same amount they needed. Just now the corporation gets 80 hours of labor for the same amount of pay.
I understand this, and in a small percentage of communities perhaps $24k is enough to live and flourish. The term to me (and this is my personal view of it, not the Wikipedia definition) has always meant that a middle class person had anywhere from enough money to comfortably live (think in terms of enough that you could save for a rainy day while living a normal life, not a choosing visiting the doctor vs. rent every month type of lifestyle) all the way to comfortably enjoying life (you'd have enough to put your kids through college should you choose to, not necessarily the nicest private schools, but through public school for say 4 years).
It seems these days, or perhaps it has always been this way seeing as I'm not very old, that middle class consists of enough to barely survive. You paid rent and aren't on food stamps? Middle class! So I suppose by what you explained then yes, $24k in some areas could consists of a very low, but still possible middle class, aka the working class. Perhaps that's just my age showing, or my ignorance. It seemed to me that the line between poverty and middle class was much more defined in the past.
I just find it hard to believe that in most places a person can afford that typical american dream middle class lifestyle (modest house, modest car, modest savings, modest clothes, 2.5 kids, etc etc) on $24k a year. (At least in the places likely to supply the job you would need to make the $24k a year example.) Again, sorry if my ignorance of the world is showing too much, I just feel the article is an unjust phrasing of middle class that will influence most people into believing something is flourishing that isn't quite there. =)
Where I live jobs are hard to come by. That is if you're not looking to work at a fast food chain or tourist spot and want something to match your masters or bachelors you worked so hard for. Even if you do find something that vaguely fits your field at best you'll make $9-10 and hour, but that's just the experience myself and those I know have had.
That being said the cost of living isn't terrible, but it's incredibly high considering what the average wage is locally. Then again I live in the cesspool that is Florida, so perhaps it's my own fault for not seeking greener pastures.
When did ~$24k gross a year become middle class? Did I miss a memo or have I been living in fantasy land? (11.50 per hour * 40 hours per week * 52 weeks)
Been there, done that. I had it get very infected (it's amazing how quickly it occurs) and went to my dentist, he flushed it out and gave me a rinse for an ungodly amount of money. Since then they've fully erupted so for now they're not as likely to get an infection as far as I know, however they are still trying to adjust space wise and I'm severely concerned they'll crack my other teeth. Plus wisdom teeth are so much more likely to just rot especially when they're harder to reach in terms of how they're placed (mine are at the most bizarre angles).
Though the closest dental school to me is quite a ways away, it might be worth a phone call and a weekend stay at a hotel. Definitely good advice, thanks. =)
I surprise myself by agreeing with this. I usually am not personally fond of people spewing profanity from their faces, but I also won't be the person to tell you not to. Do whatever you want, your words don't really offend me and I don't care all that much.
My biggest issue is with people who think they need to child proof the world. Not all of us want children, not all of us care about your crouch spawn and I sure as hell am not going to change my behavior or what I read or watch or say because your precious Timmy can't handle a few F-bombs. I'm sure he hears them all the time when these 'It takes a community' parents fight, and I'm damned sure his friends and the TV are telling him the latest and newest.
So as gstoddart said, "Fuck that. Fuck your censorship. Fuck YOU."
I've never understood how things like this weren't sexist as well. Are the elderly not family? Are husbands not family? At my school we had (past tense) an organization called "the women's center" that would help women find financial aid and loan out books free of charge. I'm not opposed to feminism or women's rights, but isn't that just as sexist? Like black history month and affirmative action are racist?
Maybe I'm just ignorant, I'm sure if that's the case someone here will be more than happy to inform me.
The lower cash price might also be due to the fact that the hospital knows if they charge average Bob who makes $13k a year at his minimum wage job $30k for a surgery they'll never see a dime. Charge him $1.3k and they'll see it eventually.
At least I suppose that would be their logic in that situation, since healthcare bills don't affect his credit (So they say, maybe a misconception? A common one I'm sure average Bob would believe even if it is) so he would have no incentive to care about an astronomical (to him) bill.