Re:You can ALL participate in Freeciv development
on
Freeciv-1.13.0 Stable
·
· Score: 2
I respect artists extremely; however, if they want me to call them "astronauts" I am not going to just to show them respect.
And even if they all wanted to be called like that. Would this hurt you or me to actually do so?
I mean maybe it's something similar like you say "black" or "afrikan american", or such, but never "nigger".
Developing equals coding
Not really, you develop a whole product, but the product consists more than of code. I mean our hardware devision in example also develops new devices, do they code a single line? A single? No, all they do is drawing circuits and design plans all the time...
Re:You can ALL participate in Freeciv development
on
Freeciv-1.13.0 Stable
·
· Score: 2
The terms "developer" and "programmer" are synonyms.
No they aren't. You use them as synonyms maybe, but actually they just aren't. Try to look a little beyond you're day-to-day thinking.
A computing game is created by a "team". Teamwork is essential. and the whole team _develops_ the game, no matter how the tasks of each particant may look like.
A programmer is also a contributer you can't differentiate on that. I'm _contributing_ code.If you want to differentiate one is a programmer or coder, and the other are artists, beta testers and all that. But they all contribute to the project, and they all develop on the whole end-product.
Well there were quite some sucessfull starts of the Arianne 5, but people will always remember the first bih crash. I will only say "discovery", but do people bringing crashes,burns and deaths in relation to the spaceshuttle?
The really funny thing is you may never make a game with this engine that deals with rockets. Then you're going to violate a trademark.
Re:You can ALL participate in Freeciv development
on
Freeciv-1.13.0 Stable
·
· Score: 2
Sorry, but a developer in the context of computer software is someone who writes code. mfarah is a contributor, not a developer.
Why are you sorry?
And who says the a developer is only someone who writes code? A developer is someone who "develops" something not more not less. See my other post for some explanation of my thoughts.
After all a free software project consist of so much more than the source code, and a lot of stuff has to do with "developing" something in the sense of evolutionary improvement.
Re:You can ALL participate in Freeciv development
on
Freeciv-1.13.0 Stable
·
· Score: 2
I do. Developing equals coding.
Yes thats how we treat the word "developing" in a day to day use, but is it really true? Actually the artists all together also "develop" the look and feel of a game.
Why do we call it "developing" after all, and not "making", because coding has an evolutionary aspect. You write some code, look how it runs, you improve code, you add new code, run again, etc. thaty why you call it "developing". In contrast of writing a text, like this message, One could write source code without delepment if he wouldn't do a single error...
The same is with graphics, the artists design some graphics look how they the game looks like with some of the early code of the coders, and then they improve some graphics, replace some etc. Same with sound and all that.
I mean it may not fit the normal understanding of your definition of a "developer", but IMHO looking what the word actual means, artists are as well developers.
A web designer is also a "developer" of the page, if you don't design it of scratch, but let the page "develop". Make some content, look how people react on it, how bandwith is used, organize some feedback and then improve the page, that's also developing something.
Re:You can ALL participate in Freeciv development
on
Freeciv-1.13.0 Stable
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Sorry, you are not a developer. You are contributor.
No, he is a "developer". Who says that developing has something to do with code. You can also "develop" graphics, the same way as you "write" source code.
Especially IMHO the free software community should treat contributing artist with great respect, since very often this is a weak point in free games, as artists and programmers seldom meet naturally in a non commercial environment.
To underline the importance of the artistic elements in a game most gaming software industrie calculate development costs for a game with 50 / 50 for source code progamming, and the artistic resources like graphics, music, and so on.
Before you get the wrong intention, I'm a programmer myself not an artist, but I highly respect and appreciate them, and if they want it we should them call developers too. remember? 50/50 !
So, you're saying that Microsofties lack an ability to detect humor or sarcasm? Or that you just don't appreciate it.
The sarcasm is only detectable if you actually read or understood the GPL, if you're only filled with FUD you might not readable it as sarcasm.
And yes the second statement is true, generally persnally I do not appreciate sarcasm, it's a negative trait, one is filling himself with thoughts he actually dispises.
"""If your code is capable of compiling under GCC, its license is changed automatically to the GPL. """
Looking at current patent law even statements like that aren't that funny. Yes we all know for gcc it's not true. But actually there are some coding syntaxes patented. The way Visual Basic handels Arrays is hold by a patent. (However as far I know it's not an executed patent) So it's then fair to say, if your code is capable of beeing compiled by VB, you might violate certain patent restrictions.
Well I know this is all overstated. But this kind of patents pester more people who want to redesign VB for linux in example, more than people coding using these array syntaxes.
I actually have met people believing if you use gcc you have to be GPL. And I've talked to people believing if you use bison the result is GPL, and yes even for CVS they aren't that sure. And so on and on, IMHO this unjustified fear it's just too dangerous to touch it.
Really lot of windows guys people believe that if they use gcc as compiler they have to be GPL, it's FUD, and jokes like this only HURT Gnu,GPL,Linux. (or use bison, or edit the code with vim, and so on). This kind of humor is just too expensive, as people not knowing the regarding background actually believe kind of stuff, it's fear from the FUD they heared from the MCSE's.
Now make three guesses why we're using decimal system today. Really it was just about fingers and people using them to count, from all other views base 10 is rather suboptimal against others.
I've expirienced in the past public filter lists beeing blocked for politcal reasons, and thats where censorship is the most evil thing that can exist. Welcome to the police state, or biedermeier time. Honestly we have a very right oriented party here in austria (FPÖ) and there is/was a webpage telling some stuff about diverese actions, making some fun etc. and one day someone added it as porn site, beeing unviewable by a lot of people. Or a fromer employer of mine who blocked the webpages of it's own buyer/owner, what did they think? That we haven't internet at home?
I think the dangers of censorship out there outweight by far the dangers of non censoring, so twenty of your 1000 employee's (2 percent?) looked at sex sides, in free hours? So what? How much of your time was wasted on trying to block them? How much do you cost? How much do their wasted time cost? You said you even have a whole group working on this, I say it would be cheaper just to let it, and fire the people who only get paid for filtering other peoples content, it's wasted companies money.
Which distros really have made any money? Which, just one? Redhat? Is nearly going toward the black zero, and most of they money they make are because of other services, not for the linux distro.
Come on as soon you make a distro people demand to freely download, do you know what that means for costs for a server, they want free this and free that, they copy their distros etc.
The problems are that the linux users AND develeopers are not business friendly. Honestly think about it, joe average linux user is a fuckwit. Isn't it? Just read slashdot for a half a year to get an idea, all this extremists posts somedays make me embarassed to be a linux user.
I can't believe this FUD came from Moby. I can't believe he had this thought and then sat down at his computer and then typed his thought out and then sent his thought to his website. File sharing isn't hurting the record industry any more than MTV and the radio have.
You have understood him false, he said it's not fair to measure a musicans success on his record sales, because since P2P networks a lot more people hear his music as he sells records. Hear him he doesn't complain about not selling the records, again he complains that success is only measured in selling records and that unfair. What I read in the lines is the true spirit of a musican! He doesn't care that much how many records he sells, or how much money he directly makes, he cares about how many people hear his music! How broad the messages get over! That muscial spirit, not the $-$ in the eyes of the music industry.
Overstating counter arguments to make them sound funny is not a nice thing to do. Look I talked about colors, not about flash animtations, what have flash animation to do with? NOTHING. I talked about colors, not about animations, what have 120MB attachments to do with it? NOTHING.
Look some dozend years ago, people introduced a coding standard to represent the letters of our alphabet as binary data, we call that ASCII, it's a world wide norm. Now whats wrong with extending that representation rules with a little more to represent more closer what I can draw on a paper? Whats wrong with that?
Just explain once to a "normal" person why extending formating in emails is wrong, and why it should not be done. It's a shame for us technicans that it isn't possible. _We_ should come up with a solution! Not dictate the users what they are allowed to do, and what not.
And why isn't it upgradeable with backward compability? like in example the way color television was introduced, it's still watchable on a black/white TV (as if anybody would care today)
It's again as all others, you're thinking to techincally arleady. technic (and software) should be the solution, it should _not_ dictate the problem. I think thats a point almost all geeks get it wrong with. Software should only be a solution, it should not dictate whats right and whats wrong. (like this example again, why are colors wrong?).
But now explain why colors need to go with viruses?
I know how HTML functions and all that from a technical point, but I _do_ have problems explaining a "normal" persons why colors, bold and underlining is not possible with email. Just once step back from the technical all day life and really try to think as a user. That way of thinking is what unix is missing! And all us geeks too.
Actually why are i.e. ANSI emails not possible? Wouldn't this be something cool?
I think one popular issue are colors in emails. Really? Why are colors bad in email? (Tell people not to use HTML mail because it's bad?), or even worse RTF?.
From a technical standpoint I understand very well that emails are text only, no colors, no underline, no bold. But now step backward from your techy knowledge and think about it from a pure users perspective. Now why can't I put colors in my email??? Whats really so bad or difficult about them?
Well to honest thats a bit of nonsense, somebody _sees_ anyway that he is viewing a side form in example 1996.
Take in example magazines, I really have old ones in my cellar, and is so funny to take a computing magazine from 1992 or so and read it. (in example Powerplay if anybody remembers it). When they ie discuss how BardsTale 3 on the CPC is the most fantastic ever seen.
Do I get confused by this magazine? Certainly No, I look at the frontcover and see the date the information applies to. Same as reading very old newspapers, or old social magazines like the are lieng at the tables in doctors wait rooms. Anybody get confused? No anybody can read the date on the frontcover. Like last time I read a magazine at the doctor from 1999, telling about the Y2K problematic etc. it's very funny today.
No what you're telling is to burn down the powerplays in cellar, the magazines at the doctors, and the old newspapers in the libraries because somebody might get confused by not reading state of the art information. Welcome 1984.
If I copyright my content, other people are not allowed to distribute it without my consent. There is no way around this. I don't have to add extra disclaimers, just a copyright notice. How can there be any arguement about this?
Read and understand the HTTP protocoll. HTTP is from original design not only a server to client communication, but allows a lot of proxies in between _caching_ the data. (Keeping copies of the content). Not the cache usually goes back some days to weeks, but now whats really different between a week and a year?
I'm blockng JonKAtz stories already for a long time (is possible from user settings), After reading them for some months I think they are only a waste of my time.
A geek girl that writes my documention and FAQ's for me? Uhhhhh that makes me really hot! Gimme her nummer! No longer writing any docs, thats definitly a shag worth....
I say let's all get rubber hammers, and then finally physically fight out several long term discussions:
Round 1: is VIM or EMACS the better Editor? Get your hammers ready!
Round 2: whats the better desktop? KDE or GNOME. 1-2-3 All hammers go!
Round 3: Which license to choose, GPL or BSD style? Hammer guys, hammer!
Round 4: Who is the better Star Trek Captain? James D. Kirk or Jean-Leuk Picard? (However they are spelled), Hammer the wrong speller.
Round 5: The fight of the better kernel: BSD or LINUX! The side group favoring HURD may not be hammered to excesivly, by the BSD or LINUX group, give them a chance.
Round 6: We'll all split up in several groups and hammer for the best browser!
Round 7: What Script Language is better, PERL or PYTHON. ( The ones left favoring TCL are to be hammered until they get some sense in their heads.)
Round 8: Is UnitedLinux a good thing? Hammer, hamm er, hammer!
Round 9: We'll hammer about the linux kernel development, do we need a patch tracker? Versioning System? Shall we hammer linus a bit? until patches it's no longer so frustracting to get all these patches silently refused?
Round 10: YOu can exchange all you hammers you've aquired against Karma, Congrats.
Slashdot Mirror
I respect artists extremely; however, if they want me to call them "astronauts" I am not going to just to show them respect.
And even if they all wanted to be called like that. Would this hurt you or me to actually do so?
I mean maybe it's something similar like you say "black" or "afrikan american", or such, but never "nigger".
Developing equals coding
Not really, you develop a whole product, but the product consists more than of code. I mean our hardware devision in example also develops new devices, do they code a single line? A single? No, all they do is drawing circuits and design plans all the time...
The terms "developer" and "programmer" are synonyms.
No they aren't. You use them as synonyms maybe, but actually they just aren't. Try to look a little beyond you're day-to-day thinking.
A computing game is created by a "team". Teamwork is essential. and the whole team _develops_ the game, no matter how the tasks of each particant may look like.
A programmer is also a contributer you can't differentiate on that. I'm _contributing_ code.If you want to differentiate one is a programmer or coder, and the other are artists, beta testers and all that. But they all contribute to the project, and they all develop on the whole end-product.
Well there were quite some sucessfull starts of the Arianne 5, but people will always remember the first bih crash. I will only say "discovery", but do people bringing crashes,burns and deaths in relation to the spaceshuttle?
The really funny thing is you may never make a game with this engine that deals with rockets. Then you're going to violate a trademark.
Sorry, but a developer in the context of computer software is someone who writes code. mfarah is a contributor, not a developer.
Why are you sorry?
And who says the a developer is only someone who writes code? A developer is someone who "develops" something not more not less. See my other post for some explanation of my thoughts.
After all a free software project consist of so much more than the source code, and a lot of stuff has to do with "developing" something in the sense of evolutionary improvement.
I do. Developing equals coding.
Yes thats how we treat the word "developing" in a day to day use, but is it really true? Actually the artists all together also "develop" the look and feel of a game.
Why do we call it "developing" after all, and not "making", because coding has an evolutionary aspect. You write some code, look how it runs, you improve code, you add new code, run again, etc. thaty why you call it "developing". In contrast of writing a text, like this message, One could write source code without delepment if he wouldn't do a single error...
The same is with graphics, the artists design some graphics look how they the game looks like with some of the early code of the coders, and then they improve some graphics, replace some etc. Same with sound and all that.
I mean it may not fit the normal understanding of your definition of a "developer", but IMHO looking what the word actual means, artists are as well developers.
A web designer is also a "developer" of the page, if you don't design it of scratch, but let the page "develop". Make some content, look how people react on it, how bandwith is used, organize some feedback and then improve the page, that's also developing something.
Sorry, you are not a developer. You are contributor.
No, he is a "developer". Who says that developing has something to do with code. You can also "develop" graphics, the same way as you "write" source code.
Especially IMHO the free software community should treat contributing artist with great respect, since very often this is a weak point in free games, as artists and programmers seldom meet naturally in a non commercial environment.
To underline the importance of the artistic elements in a game most gaming software industrie calculate development costs for a game with 50 / 50 for source code progamming, and the artistic resources like graphics, music, and so on.
Before you get the wrong intention, I'm a programmer myself not an artist, but I highly respect and appreciate them, and if they want it we should them call developers too. remember? 50/50 !
So, you're saying that Microsofties lack an ability to detect humor or sarcasm? Or that you just don't appreciate it.
The sarcasm is only detectable if you actually read or understood the GPL, if you're only filled with FUD you might not readable it as sarcasm.
And yes the second statement is true, generally persnally I do not appreciate sarcasm, it's a negative trait, one is filling himself with thoughts he actually dispises.
"""If your code is capable of compiling under GCC, its license is changed automatically to the GPL. """
Looking at current patent law even statements like that aren't that funny. Yes we all know for gcc it's not true. But actually there are some coding syntaxes patented. The way Visual Basic handels Arrays is hold by a patent. (However as far I know it's not an executed patent) So it's then fair to say, if your code is capable of beeing compiled by VB, you might violate certain patent restrictions.
Well I know this is all overstated. But this kind of patents pester more people who want to redesign VB for linux in example, more than people coding using these array syntaxes.
I actually have met people believing if you use gcc you have to be GPL. And I've talked to people believing if you use bison the result is GPL, and yes even for CVS they aren't that sure. And so on and on, IMHO this unjustified fear it's just too dangerous to touch it.
Thuis is not in any kind funny.
Really lot of windows guys people believe that if they use gcc as compiler they have to be GPL, it's FUD, and jokes like this only HURT Gnu,GPL,Linux. (or use bison, or edit the code with vim, and so on). This kind of humor is just too expensive, as people not knowing the regarding background actually believe kind of stuff, it's fear from the FUD they heared from the MCSE's.
Now make three guesses why we're using decimal system today. Really it was just about fingers and people using them to count, from all other views base 10 is rather suboptimal against others.
I've expirienced in the past public filter lists beeing blocked for politcal reasons, and thats where censorship is the most evil thing that can exist. Welcome to the police state, or biedermeier time. Honestly we have a very right oriented party here in austria (FPÖ) and there is/was a webpage telling some stuff about diverese actions, making some fun etc. and one day someone added it as porn site, beeing unviewable by a lot of people. Or a fromer employer of mine who blocked the webpages of it's own buyer/owner, what did they think? That we haven't internet at home?
I think the dangers of censorship out there outweight by far the dangers of non censoring, so twenty of your 1000 employee's (2 percent?) looked at sex sides, in free hours? So what? How much of your time was wasted on trying to block them? How much do you cost? How much do their wasted time cost? You said you even have a whole group working on this, I say it would be cheaper just to let it, and fire the people who only get paid for filtering other peoples content, it's wasted companies money.
I think you're completly right.
Which distros really have made any money? Which, just one? Redhat? Is nearly going toward the black zero, and most of they money they make are because of other services, not for the linux distro.
Come on as soon you make a distro people demand to freely download, do you know what that means for costs for a server, they want free this and free that, they copy their distros etc.
The problems are that the linux users AND develeopers are not business friendly. Honestly think about it, joe average linux user is a fuckwit. Isn't it? Just read slashdot for a half a year to get an idea, all this extremists posts somedays make me embarassed to be a linux user.
(This post is written of 100% free software)
Or does anyone else think the blue part of the Caldera logo looks like the left ear and part of the head of Mickey Mouse?!?!?!
Of course it does, but don't tell DISNEY!!! If they find out they gonna sue Caldera into nothingness.
Wow...how did software ever get written before mp3's existed?
Conventional Radio stations?
Honestly on a lot of workstation where you don't have direct costumar contact a running radio can be a small perl in a day-to-day work life.
Oh and whats with the Casette Play Deck?
The old ways aren't so bad after all...
I can't believe this FUD came from Moby. I can't believe he had this thought and then sat down at his computer and then typed his thought out and then sent his thought to his website. File sharing isn't hurting the record industry any more than MTV and the radio have.
You have understood him false, he said it's not fair to measure a musicans success on his record sales, because since P2P networks a lot more people hear his music as he sells records. Hear him he doesn't complain about not selling the records, again he complains that success is only measured in selling records and that unfair. What I read in the lines is the true spirit of a musican! He doesn't care that much how many records he sells, or how much money he directly makes, he cares about how many people hear his music! How broad the messages get over! That muscial spirit, not the $-$ in the eyes of the music industry.
Overstating counter arguments to make them sound funny is not a nice thing to do. Look I talked about colors, not about flash animtations, what have flash animation to do with? NOTHING. I talked about colors, not about animations, what have 120MB attachments to do with it? NOTHING.
Look some dozend years ago, people introduced a coding standard to represent the letters of our alphabet as binary data, we call that ASCII, it's a world wide norm. Now whats wrong with extending that representation rules with a little more to represent more closer what I can draw on a paper? Whats wrong with that?
Just explain once to a "normal" person why extending formating in emails is wrong, and why it should not be done. It's a shame for us technicans that it isn't possible. _We_ should come up with a solution! Not dictate the users what they are allowed to do, and what not.
And why isn't it upgradeable with backward compability? like in example the way color television was introduced, it's still watchable on a black/white TV (as if anybody would care today)
It's again as all others, you're thinking to techincally arleady. technic (and software) should be the solution, it should _not_ dictate the problem. I think thats a point almost all geeks get it wrong with. Software should only be a solution, it should not dictate whats right and whats wrong. (like this example again, why are colors wrong?).
But now explain why colors need to go with viruses?
I know how HTML functions and all that from a technical point, but I _do_ have problems explaining a "normal" persons why colors, bold and underlining is not possible with email. Just once step back from the technical all day life and really try to think as a user. That way of thinking is what unix is missing! And all us geeks too.
Actually why are i.e. ANSI emails not possible? Wouldn't this be something cool?
I think you should add some examples....
I think one popular issue are colors in emails. Really? Why are colors bad in email? (Tell people not to use HTML mail because it's bad?), or even worse RTF?.
From a technical standpoint I understand very well that emails are text only, no colors, no underline, no bold. But now step backward from your techy knowledge and think about it from a pure users perspective. Now why can't I put colors in my email??? Whats really so bad or difficult about them?
Well to honest thats a bit of nonsense, somebody _sees_ anyway that he is viewing a side form in example 1996.
Take in example magazines, I really have old ones in my cellar, and is so funny to take a computing magazine from 1992 or so and read it. (in example Powerplay if anybody remembers it). When they ie discuss how BardsTale 3 on the CPC is the most fantastic ever seen.
Do I get confused by this magazine? Certainly No, I look at the frontcover and see the date the information applies to. Same as reading very old newspapers, or old social magazines like the are lieng at the tables in doctors wait rooms. Anybody get confused? No anybody can read the date on the frontcover. Like last time I read a magazine at the doctor from 1999, telling about the Y2K problematic etc. it's very funny today.
No what you're telling is to burn down the powerplays in cellar, the magazines at the doctors, and the old newspapers in the libraries because somebody might get confused by not reading state of the art information. Welcome 1984.
If I copyright my content, other people are not allowed to distribute it without my consent. There is no way around this. I don't have to add extra disclaimers, just a copyright notice. How can there be any arguement about this?
Read and understand the HTTP protocoll. HTTP is from original design not only a server to client communication, but allows a lot of proxies in between _caching_ the data. (Keeping copies of the content). Not the cache usually goes back some days to weeks, but now whats really different between a week and a year?
I'm blockng JonKAtz stories already for a long time (is possible from user settings), After reading them for some months I think they are only a waste of my time.
A geek girl that writes my documention and FAQ's for me? Uhhhhh that makes me really hot! Gimme her nummer! No longer writing any docs, thats definitly a shag worth....
I say let's all get rubber hammers, and then finally physically fight out several long term discussions:
Round 1: is VIM or EMACS the better Editor? Get your hammers ready!
Round 2: whats the better desktop? KDE or GNOME. 1-2-3 All hammers go!
Round 3: Which license to choose, GPL or BSD style? Hammer guys, hammer!
Round 4: Who is the better Star Trek Captain? James D. Kirk or Jean-Leuk Picard? (However they are spelled), Hammer the wrong speller.
Round 5: The fight of the better kernel: BSD or LINUX! The side group favoring HURD may not be hammered to excesivly, by the BSD or LINUX group, give them a chance.
Round 6: We'll all split up in several groups and hammer for the best browser!
Round 7: What Script Language is better, PERL or PYTHON. ( The ones left favoring TCL are to be hammered until they get some sense in their heads.)
Round 8: Is UnitedLinux a good thing? Hammer, hamm er, hammer!
Round 9: We'll hammer about the linux kernel development, do we need a patch tracker? Versioning System? Shall we hammer linus a bit? until patches it's no longer so frustracting to get all these patches silently refused?
Round 10: YOu can exchange all you hammers you've aquired against Karma, Congrats.