Thank you for your comment, and a more mature reply than that other kid had. I will try to reply to your points.
Whether the iPod pops up as a folder is an OS setting, not an iTunes setting. But that unfortunately doesn't control the music selection as iPods keep the music on a hidden, inaccessible folder.
Exactly.
for the average user, they don't care to manually move their music. I might be an example of the typical user. I have like 2,000 songs on my computer
I think this might be the key difference between us; I have.5Tb of music on my server, like tens of thousands of songs. Literally a month and a half if I played it back-to-back. Every song is tagged the same way, every file and folder is named the same way, and it has been this way for twelve years. I am serious about my music. The last thing in the world I want is a music program that tries to take that out of my hands, which makes iTunes a total non-starter for me.
For the record, I think you're right about "the average user." But I demand more. I need something that I can plug my system into and have it understand and work with that system.
I really don't want to figure out which new folder I have to add to my iPod or which song I need to re-load because I just added the lyrics
And for me it's the other way around. I don't want to figure out where iTunes hid some weird folder or how it mangled my tags. If I can't plug my directory structure into a "settings" dialog and have my music player or my mp3 understand that without fucking everything up and moving shit around and making hidden folders and causing general filesystem chaos, that is unacceptable.
I think the difference here is that you seem to want your computer to integrate with your mp3 player, while I want my mp3 player to integrate with my computer. I'm not trying to say you're wrong to want that or everyone should do it my way, just that that approach is not for everyone.
an iPod integrates with Apple's music app and Apple's music/media store. iTunes will notice if there's something new on the iPod and copy it to the comp and vice versa. Automatically, if you want. That's integration.
To my knowledge, Amarok will do this with any old mp3 player out there (subbing Jamendo/Magnatunes for iTunes store, of course) if that's the kind of thing you're into. Me, not so much. For one thing, I've got half a terabyte of music on my machine. I don't want my music program to try to sync stuff or find stuff or look for stuff. I sure as hell don't want it messing around in my files making its own directories and shit. I've had the same system for managing my music since the mid-90s. I've got a directory structure and naming convention and tagging system, and every single song in that.5Tb adheres to it. I don't need my computer trying to tell me it knows better than I do how my shit gets filed. It doesn't.
Here are my requirements for "integration" with regards to my music program and mp3 player. Number one with a bullet, it must be smart enough to understand my directory structure and how I've got my stuff organized and display things properly WITHOUT making folders in weird places and copying all my stuff into its own weird structure and giving everything funny names and converting my files to some weird format. Full stop. If it doesn't do that, I am not interested. Two, it doesn't give me some weirdo interface to deal with my music.As I said before, Amarok will give you the option of letting it sync stuff to your mp3 player. I don't want it. I want a folder that I can put files in, period. Which is a good segue into this gem...
Forcing me to find which drive letter was assigned, popping up explorer to browse to my media, figuring out what's new on the comp versus the iPod and moving stuff around is not integrated.
I plug in the mp3 player. My file manager opens automatically, with the drive mounted. I open ~/Music. I drag stuff between the two. I unplug my mp3 player and go. Done. And you want to know what's really neat? My file manager can even automatically compare the two folders and tell me if there's anything new in either of them! Integration! (Not that I need that really, because I put shit in sensible places to begin with.)
And that's it. It's a folder with files. Like any other folder with files, just like the whole rest of my computer. Integration. Things working well together. If iTunes hijacks my computer with its own database and directory structure and only lets me manipulate my music through said, that's totally the opposite of integration.
To reiterate. You are an idiot.
What, are you like 14? How is this middle-school name calling germane to the topic or in any way called for? Is this how you talk to strangers in real life? For God's sake, act civilized even if you're not.
Would their integration be as easy to use as Apple or even MS Zune or would it be like every other player out there?
That's funny, see. When I think "integration" I think "I plug my audio player into the USB drive, it pops up as a folder just like any other folder and I put files in it just like any other files." iPods don't do that.
But in Linux - in most advanced desktop distro Ubuntu - the easiest method... right - e-mail. Sending from one PC to another, hooked over LAN, through some servers thousands miles away. Why not? [/sarcasm] Setting up (not installed by default) FTPd/OpenSSH/Avahi - is not something I can advise to end users to install setup by default. And the [censored] over there in Ubuntu really have no clue, writing off everything on "security via obscurity". As if sending confidential data over 3rd party is safer than sending them over LAN...
Good God, man, NFS has been around for 23 friggin' years!
Re:and what does a 2gig stick cost?
on
Chrome Vs. IE 8
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God damn do I ever get my titties in a twist when someone tries to play the "[RAM/HDD space/processing power/GPU power/et cetera] is cheap!" card. $40 to me? Not cheap. I'm riding on a big fat twenty bucks right now, and because I'm a freelancer, that's the money I've got until I make another sale. I mean, who pays your bills? Has it simply never occurred to you that there are people out there to whom $40 is not a trivial amount of money?
The (one, btw) bucket of urine belonged to a squatter who was living upstairs in the building. Completely unconnected. The other buckets of "urine" were actually dirty wash water.
I'm talking about the political and legal history of the United States since 1860. Compared to the American Civil War, the First World War and the Second World War, the crackdown on civil rights has been tame, compared to the dangerous faced with new asymmetrical weapons and tactics.
Really. Let's check the list.
Hobbling of the press. Check. Illegal detainment of US citizens. Check. Unconstitutional invasions of personal homes and effects. Check. Unconstitutional use of federal agents and armed forces in civilian jurisdictions. Check. Executive abuses of "war powers." Check, check, and check.
So how is this not exactly like the Civil War, or the First and Second World Wars? Well, there is one difference. We are not at war. Except with Eurasia. We've always been at war with Eurasia.
And while I'm listening to that sound of my HD spinning, I shall sing along a beautiful song mocking your inability to connect to any form of wireless whatsoever or properly view any webpage that was authored this century.
Nonono. We're talking about Linux here, not Vista with b0rk3n drivers and Internet Exploder. Are you new here?
They want people to promote it on Wikipedia? (and Slashdot, of course) That is an express desire to be viewed favorably by a wider audience.
I don't see the correlation between those two things. Slashdot, for one, has nothing to do whatever with any "wider audience" of any sort, so I don't see its relevance. As to Wikipedia, I would say that this is a not a desire to "be viewed favorably by a wider audience," but to simply be viewed by a wider audience, to better reach people who are already sympathetic to the idea. That's effective marketing in a nutshell. Read any marketing textbook, the first rule you're gonna see in big bold 48-point font is "Sell it to the people who already want it, you dummy!"
Really? Not me. I occasionally have to delete some spammy crap on groups I admin from sockpuppet accounts, but never on my wall and never from a friend, and I've been a pretty active Facebook member since early on.
Fuck that, gimme tape. Step on a CD with your boots on, it's probably garbage. Run a cassette over with a truck, tape any broken sections back together and re-spool it, that thing's fine. When it comes to longevity, CDs are the worst idea yet.
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post. Rather than answering any of those questions, you threw a temper tantrum and accused him of some unnamed meanness toward you (which I don't see no matter how many times I read that post). Here, for your convenience, I distill the above poster's questions, in case you'd like to take another crack at any of them.
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening?
At any rate there's far, far less chance that Dell will fail to support an operating system that they can pick up and fix themselves if necessary, than there is that they'll drop support for something where they have no recourse if the manufacturer decides to discontinue support. Like, Ooh... I don't know... Windows, and most of the third party device drivers for it. (Yeah, not a question, but still a refutation of your argument, so I included it.)
Seriously, what does Microsoft offer in the way of support to a single home user that isn't available for a cheaper price for Ubuntu or another commercially supported distribution?
Would you like to take another turn at any of those?
Absolutely! Because as we all know, on REAL computers there is only ONE of each kind of program! None of this confusing WinAmp vs. WMP... wait... IE vs. Opera... no, that's not it either... MSN Messenger vs. Jabber... shit, hang on, I'll get one... Flash vs. Silverlight...
Oh, wait, I figured it out. You're talking out your ass!
There has been no such success in this house. I play turn-based strategy (well, mostly I just play Civ 4), and I have never seen a console pull off a really solid TBS. The interface of a console controller is just too limited. I'll wait and see about Civilization: Revolution, I've heard great things, but I've been burned a lot of times by weak-ass console TBS games. If they can pull it off, it'll be a major coup. Until then, you'll pry this keyboard out of my cold, dead hands.
No. It's called Wine. If you want to sit here and pretend that Vista has no compatibility problems with older software, you go right ahead, but we all know you're full of shit. Wine has, right now, better windows compatibility than Windows does.
As long as mom and pop can go do their online banking, get their email and the kids can use iTunes, they don't give a flying fuck about anything you're on about.
Mom and pop got their credit card info stolen because they use a shitty, insecure OS and a shitty, insecure web browser, so online banking's kind of a moot point. They can't even get to Yahoo Mail anymore without seventy-leven pop-ups for penis enlargement pills and shemale porn (and one asking if they'd like to Allow or Deny). The kids use torrents these days since they found out that they can't put their iTunes songs on their friend's mp3 player without going through a bunch of bullshit.
Mom and pop have started to care. Why haven't you?
Yeah, well, problem is they are subsidizing the retail value of the OS with hardware. You get OS X for $129 because they are more interested in selling hardware.
No one's forcing them to sell boxed copies of OSX in stores. Move to an all-digital distribution method and that problem solves itself.
It also becomes big bloated mess like Windows (and Linux, sorry) because they have to support unlimited permutations of hardware.
Red herring. Why the hell would Apple test hardware that they're not selling their software with and that their hardware is not designed for?
The ratio of OEM Vista to OEM Linux at Walmart.com is about 50:1.
I don't see the relevance of this. At the very title of the thread states, we're not talking about sales here, we're talking about users. That's the whole point of my argument.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd say the consequences of said have been fairly catastrophic.
Thank you for your comment, and a more mature reply than that other kid had. I will try to reply to your points.
Exactly.
I think this might be the key difference between us; I have .5Tb of music on my server, like tens of thousands of songs. Literally a month and a half if I played it back-to-back. Every song is tagged the same way, every file and folder is named the same way, and it has been this way for twelve years. I am serious about my music. The last thing in the world I want is a music program that tries to take that out of my hands, which makes iTunes a total non-starter for me.
For the record, I think you're right about "the average user." But I demand more. I need something that I can plug my system into and have it understand and work with that system.
And for me it's the other way around. I don't want to figure out where iTunes hid some weird folder or how it mangled my tags. If I can't plug my directory structure into a "settings" dialog and have my music player or my mp3 understand that without fucking everything up and moving shit around and making hidden folders and causing general filesystem chaos, that is unacceptable.
I think the difference here is that you seem to want your computer to integrate with your mp3 player, while I want my mp3 player to integrate with my computer. I'm not trying to say you're wrong to want that or everyone should do it my way, just that that approach is not for everyone.
To my knowledge, Amarok will do this with any old mp3 player out there (subbing Jamendo/Magnatunes for iTunes store, of course) if that's the kind of thing you're into. Me, not so much. For one thing, I've got half a terabyte of music on my machine. I don't want my music program to try to sync stuff or find stuff or look for stuff. I sure as hell don't want it messing around in my files making its own directories and shit. I've had the same system for managing my music since the mid-90s. I've got a directory structure and naming convention and tagging system, and every single song in that .5Tb adheres to it. I don't need my computer trying to tell me it knows better than I do how my shit gets filed. It doesn't.
Here are my requirements for "integration" with regards to my music program and mp3 player. Number one with a bullet, it must be smart enough to understand my directory structure and how I've got my stuff organized and display things properly WITHOUT making folders in weird places and copying all my stuff into its own weird structure and giving everything funny names and converting my files to some weird format. Full stop. If it doesn't do that, I am not interested. Two, it doesn't give me some weirdo interface to deal with my music.As I said before, Amarok will give you the option of letting it sync stuff to your mp3 player. I don't want it. I want a folder that I can put files in, period. Which is a good segue into this gem...
I plug in the mp3 player. My file manager opens automatically, with the drive mounted. I open ~/Music. I drag stuff between the two. I unplug my mp3 player and go. Done. And you want to know what's really neat? My file manager can even automatically compare the two folders and tell me if there's anything new in either of them! Integration! (Not that I need that really, because I put shit in sensible places to begin with.)
And that's it. It's a folder with files. Like any other folder with files, just like the whole rest of my computer. Integration. Things working well together. If iTunes hijacks my computer with its own database and directory structure and only lets me manipulate my music through said, that's totally the opposite of integration.
What, are you like 14? How is this middle-school name calling germane to the topic or in any way called for? Is this how you talk to strangers in real life? For God's sake, act civilized even if you're not.
You had me til the end.
That's funny, see. When I think "integration" I think "I plug my audio player into the USB drive, it pops up as a folder just like any other folder and I put files in it just like any other files." iPods don't do that.
Good God, man, NFS has been around for 23 friggin' years!
God damn do I ever get my titties in a twist when someone tries to play the "[RAM/HDD space/processing power/GPU power/et cetera] is cheap!" card. $40 to me? Not cheap. I'm riding on a big fat twenty bucks right now, and because I'm a freelancer, that's the money I've got until I make another sale. I mean, who pays your bills? Has it simply never occurred to you that there are people out there to whom $40 is not a trivial amount of money?
The (one, btw) bucket of urine belonged to a squatter who was living upstairs in the building. Completely unconnected. The other buckets of "urine" were actually dirty wash water.
Really. Let's check the list.
Hobbling of the press. Check.
Illegal detainment of US citizens. Check.
Unconstitutional invasions of personal homes and effects. Check.
Unconstitutional use of federal agents and armed forces in civilian jurisdictions. Check.
Executive abuses of "war powers." Check, check, and check.
So how is this not exactly like the Civil War, or the First and Second World Wars? Well, there is one difference. We are not at war. Except with Eurasia. We've always been at war with Eurasia.
Nonono. We're talking about Linux here, not Vista with b0rk3n drivers and Internet Exploder. Are you new here?
They want people to promote it on Wikipedia? (and Slashdot, of course) That is an express desire to be viewed favorably by a wider audience.
I don't see the correlation between those two things. Slashdot, for one, has nothing to do whatever with any "wider audience" of any sort, so I don't see its relevance. As to Wikipedia, I would say that this is a not a desire to "be viewed favorably by a wider audience," but to simply be viewed by a wider audience, to better reach people who are already sympathetic to the idea. That's effective marketing in a nutshell. Read any marketing textbook, the first rule you're gonna see in big bold 48-point font is "Sell it to the people who already want it, you dummy!"
You do not get it. The name happens to be pretty clever, and pretty good marketing too. Here's the thing: they're not marketing to you.
Really? Not me. I occasionally have to delete some spammy crap on groups I admin from sockpuppet accounts, but never on my wall and never from a friend, and I've been a pretty active Facebook member since early on.
They're not within their rights. See the "user conduct" section of the Facebook terms of use.
Fuck that, gimme tape. Step on a CD with your boots on, it's probably garbage. Run a cassette over with a truck, tape any broken sections back together and re-spool it, that thing's fine. When it comes to longevity, CDs are the worst idea yet.
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post. Rather than answering any of those questions, you threw a temper tantrum and accused him of some unnamed meanness toward you (which I don't see no matter how many times I read that post). Here, for your convenience, I distill the above poster's questions, in case you'd like to take another crack at any of them.
Would you like to take another turn at any of those?
kindly yours-
p.d.
Absolutely! Because as we all know, on REAL computers there is only ONE of each kind of program! None of this confusing WinAmp vs. WMP... wait... IE vs. Opera... no, that's not it either... MSN Messenger vs. Jabber... shit, hang on, I'll get one... Flash vs. Silverlight...
Oh, wait, I figured it out. You're talking out your ass!
You should submit a bug to Adobe.
Oh, wait...
Can linux do X... Most likely yes. However its defaults are not really setup for that.
X starts automatically over here. What distro do you use? ;)
There has been no such success in this house. I play turn-based strategy (well, mostly I just play Civ 4), and I have never seen a console pull off a really solid TBS. The interface of a console controller is just too limited. I'll wait and see about Civilization: Revolution, I've heard great things, but I've been burned a lot of times by weak-ass console TBS games. If they can pull it off, it'll be a major coup. Until then, you'll pry this keyboard out of my cold, dead hands.
No. It's called Wine. If you want to sit here and pretend that Vista has no compatibility problems with older software, you go right ahead, but we all know you're full of shit. Wine has, right now, better windows compatibility than Windows does.
No standards? Are you serious? You've never heard of Linux Standard Base?
As long as mom and pop can go do their online banking, get their email and the kids can use iTunes, they don't give a flying fuck about anything you're on about.
Mom and pop got their credit card info stolen because they use a shitty, insecure OS and a shitty, insecure web browser, so online banking's kind of a moot point. They can't even get to Yahoo Mail anymore without seventy-leven pop-ups for penis enlargement pills and shemale porn (and one asking if they'd like to Allow or Deny). The kids use torrents these days since they found out that they can't put their iTunes songs on their friend's mp3 player without going through a bunch of bullshit.
Mom and pop have started to care. Why haven't you?
Yeah, well, problem is they are subsidizing the retail value of the OS with hardware. You get OS X for $129 because they are more interested in selling hardware.
No one's forcing them to sell boxed copies of OSX in stores. Move to an all-digital distribution method and that problem solves itself.
It also becomes big bloated mess like Windows (and Linux, sorry) because they have to support unlimited permutations of hardware.
Red herring. Why the hell would Apple test hardware that they're not selling their software with and that their hardware is not designed for?
People hate Vista, the average Joe can't/won't figure out linux, and people generally enjoy the Apple experience.
[citation needed]
The ratio of OEM Vista to OEM Linux at Walmart.com is about 50:1.
I don't see the relevance of this. At the very title of the thread states, we're not talking about sales here, we're talking about users. That's the whole point of my argument.