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Behind the Doors of the Free Software Foundation

Linux.com has an interesting look at the inner workings of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). "The purpose of the Free Software Foundation (FSF) is probably obvious from its name -- but what does promoting free software mean in terms of everyday activity? Examining the roles of the organization shows how complex the FSF's advocacy role has become. It also reveals the range of services available to the free software community, and helps to explain how such a small group has had such a major influence on computer technology. As a 501(c)3 charity in the United States, the FSF is run by a board of directors. The current board includes FSF founder and president Richard M. Stallman and long-term member Henry Poole, but, in the last few years, new faces have appeared on the board."

144 comments

  1. Thanks! by just_another_sean · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a user of Free Software for about 10 years now I would just like to say that I really appreciate the efforts of the FSF. No matter how much RMS is bashed and doubted he sticks to his ethics and invariably the projections he makes seem to come true to at least some extent.

    Long live the FSF.

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    1. Re:Thanks! by houstonbofh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a user of Free Software for about 10 years now I would just like to say that I really appreciate the efforts of the FSF. No matter how much RMS is bashed and doubted he sticks to his ethics and invariably the projections he makes seem to come true to at least some extent.

      Long live the FSF.

      I disagree with many of RMS's positions, but he has been vital to the open source cause. Sometimes we need extremists, and he is a good one. :)

    2. Re:Thanks! by kingduct · · Score: 2, Funny

      "As a user of Free Software for about 10 years now I would just like to say that I really appreciate the efforts of the FSF. No matter how much RMS is bashed and doubted he sticks to his ethics and invariably the projections he makes seem to come true to at least some extent."

      Ditto!
      Thanks

    3. Re:Thanks! by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We need extremists to start. You need middle of the road people to keep it going. When the extremist stay there to long there is a point where their extreme views move from being progressive to oppressive. As using Free Software for over a decade myself. I feel RMS is starting to make Open Source more oppressive then progressive.

      We should honor people for what they did but we shouldn't keep them there for ever in a changing world. That would be like saying George Washington would make a good president for 2008.

      The same with other movements. Once they acheave some key goals they really should step aside while the moderates work for the smaller detail goals.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      ""As a user of Free Software for about 10 years now I would just like to say that I really appreciate the efforts of the FSF. No matter how much RMS is bashed and doubted he sticks to his ethics and invariably the projections he makes seem to come true to at least some extent."

      Ditto!

      Thanks"

      Yeah!

    5. Re:Thanks! by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      You're welcome!

      (new fsf member)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    6. Re:Thanks! by mlc · · Score: 1

      I disagree with many of RMS's positions, but he has been vital to the open source cause.

      RMS would be the first to tell you he's not at all interested in open source, which is a business model, not a cause.

    7. Re:Thanks! by cparker15 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To those not aware, the FSF Associate Membership program (referral link) is more of a supporter appreciation program. As such, Associate Members do not speak on behalf of the Free Software Foundation. Only FSF staff are authorized to make statements on behalf of the FSF.

      Of course, I am an Associate Member (#795), so what I just said above is solely my opinion and not the official position of the Free Software Foundation.

      Err... Or something.. like that. :)

      --
      Have you driven a fnord... lately?

      You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.

    8. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A wise man once said, "better to suck cock then to eat pussy, because pussy is tainted, and cock is pure".

      Your whole statement sounds like it is pure pussy...

    9. Re:Thanks! by Directrix1 · · Score: 1

      I know he was talking about Microsoft, but his 1% market share is way off.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    10. Re:Thanks! by ypctx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You opened my eyes, thank you. I'm going to purchase a non-crap OS (I will pay extra for the Ultimate version that allows me to do everything), where I can choose between playing a mp3 or downloading a file, because it can't do both reliably at the same time.
      You sir should understand one thing - by using closed source OS software, you are fucking owned by whoever creates that software, and dependent completely on their mercy. Now go install your genuine 20 GB service packs while listening to the beautiful sounds of rin tin tin tin NTFS raping your harddrive.

    11. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd vote for George Washington in 2008. Have you read any of his speeches? his farewell address? No matter the year I'd vote for him

    12. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Stallman's cause is NOT open source. It is free software. Open Source is about a development methodology, Fre Software is about freedom.

      "Giving the Linus Torvalds Award to the Free Software Foundation is sort of like giving the Han Solo Award to the Rebel Fleet."

      RMS

    13. Re:Thanks! by 427_ci_505 · · Score: 1

      So closed source free software is ok?

    14. Re:Thanks! by dangitman · · Score: 0

      You sir should understand one thing - by using closed source OS software, you are fucking owned by whoever creates that software, and dependent completely on their mercy.

      WTF? I most certainly am not. If I was being fucked over by my closed-source OS, I could just change to a different OS, couldn't I?

      In what sense am I owned by a company that creates the tools I use? I never signed a contract saying that I must always use that OS, and only that OS> Are you owned by the company that makes the hammers you use? Are you owned by your toaster? I don't think so.

      Your comment makes about as much sense as saying that a Linux user is owned by the Linux community.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    15. Re:Thanks! by TehZorroness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Open source" (the term) doesn't convey the freedom you get as a result. It is very easy to release a program as source yet have it be every bit as restrictive as your typical windows software. In a less extreme way, the ideals of free software do tend to get lost when you start calling it open source after a while (ok, here's the source, but you cannot make commercial use). RMS doesn't advocate passing the source around, he advocates passing the freedom around. That is what's important. That's why he insists on the use of the term "free software." That is why the Free Software Foundation is not the Open Source Software Foundation.

    16. Re:Thanks! by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      I disagree with many of RMS's positions, but he has been vital to the open source cause.

      RMS would be the first to tell you he's not at all interested in open source, which is a business model, not a cause.

      Exactly why I disagree with him often. I like the FreeBSD license, for example. But without RMS, none of the open source projects would be where they are.

    17. Re:Thanks! by topnob · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think he was meaning that by using some of their software you might be locked in, ie if you ever want to open your files again you need their software.

    18. Re:Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear hear!

    19. Re:Thanks! by ypctx · · Score: 1

      What I meant was (mainly) a situation, where you *have to* wait for a patch (update) to come out for some problem that's stopping or otherwise hurting your business, whereas being on open sourced OS you could just hack the code as a temporary solution (or compile from source). You usually don't switch your OS and migrate all your business' infrastructure in 10 days or 'on demand'.
      The other form of ownage is that you don't really know what's in the closed source system - backdoors by secret services, exploitable by 3rd party? Very likely.
      I must confess I'm too a bit owned in this 2nd regard, as I use Skype on Linux. But then, I can switch that one easily.
      Oh yeah, and got I willingly triggered by a Troll. 1% market share? The fucking Internet runs on Linux.

    20. Re:Thanks! by Risen888 · · Score: 1

      And while I'm listening to that sound of my HD spinning, I shall sing along a beautiful song mocking your inability to connect to any form of wireless whatsoever or properly view any webpage that was authored this century.

      Nonono. We're talking about Linux here, not Vista with b0rk3n drivers and Internet Exploder. Are you new here?

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    21. Re:Thanks! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      What I meant was (mainly) a situation, where you *have to* wait for a patch (update) to come out for some problem that's stopping or otherwise hurting your business,

      So, how is that equivalent to being "owned"? It's a choice I make, and I'm aware of the downsides of proprietary software. It's a matter of weighing costs and benefits.

      whereas being on open sourced OS you could just hack the code as a temporary solution (or compile from source)

      That's fine if you're capable of making that change. Most users aren't so it's a moot point.

      As an example, my line of work is photography and video. I can't just "hack together" something similar in functionality to Photoshop or Final Cut Pro. There are very few programmers in the world capable of that level of output. Or perhaps there are, but they don't have the required project organization that incorporates overall software design goals and professional needs. It's a lot more than just programmers.

      Bottom line is, I can't wait for the Open Source community to just magically come together and produce professional-caliber tools. I'd be happy to use it if they did.

      I do run Linux, Windows and Mac. Linux is great for hobbyist stuff and tinkering, but it's just not there yet for the professional productivity tools that earn my living. Hacking together my own solution is just not viable - I want to use my computers to get work done, not spend time tinkering with them.

      You usually don't switch your OS and migrate all your business' infrastructure in 10 days or 'on demand'.

      But the probability that a company like Adobe, that supports vast industries, and has done so for well over a decade, is going to allow everything to just break suddenly, is very unlikely. What's more likely is that if I were using an Open Source solution, some new camera or scanner would come out, and it would take many months or even years for it to be supported under the OSS application.

      Like I said, it's a matter of balancing priorities and making informed decisions.

      Oh yeah, and got I willingly triggered by a Troll. 1% market share? The fucking Internet runs on Linux.

      Well, I certainly don't agree with that troll. It's just that your response came off as rather hysterical, and I see this happen a lot with Free Software arguments. People tend to go off the deep end about things like being "owned" by corporations when even the topic of proprietary software still comes up.

      The weird thing to me, is that the same people who talk about all this corporate "ownage" probably have dozens of hardware gadgets made by proprietary companies. Does this make every user here owned by Intel, or AMD, or IBM or Motorola because of the chip that runs their software? The reality is that we live in a world of proprietary products - you are probably sitting in a room full of them at the moment. And they generally make our lives a lot easier and more interesting.

      Why software specifically is considered so evil if it is proprietary, I don't really see. It has its downsides, but it also has its upsides.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    22. Re:Thanks! by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      RMS doesn't advocate passing the source around, he advocates passing the freedom around. That is what's important. That's why he insists on the use of the term "free software."

      Unless you want to use it in a way he does not like. Then you can suck eggs, by his standard. (No DRM in GPL3? That's free...) While I do see his point, I disagree with the execution on occasions. So did many others, hence the GPLv2 fork.

    23. Re:Thanks! by TehZorroness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The GPL3 doesn't prevent implementing DRM. It prevents using DRM to lock down a GPL3 program in a way it cannot be modified and/or distributed. You can, for example, implement a DVD player and license it under the GPL3. You can not take a GPL program and include it in a operating system or device that will only run that one unmodified copy. (technically, the DMCA prevents you from implementing other people's DRM, but that is not the GPL's fault.)

  2. Stallman pushed to the sidelines by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For Stallman fans, it's a real shame to see him somewhat marginalized in his own community. If you know something of his life story (e.g. from Free as in Freedom ), he's passionate about coding. Yet, the growth of the FSF distracted him from software development, and now great projects like Emacs have to move ahead without him. But now, the FSF is going off into directions this bearded old guru didn't have to think about when he launched his campaign, and here he must rely on others to take charge. Oh well, at least once in a while he gives us a successful trip to India to rejoice about.

    1. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Informative

      While I believe it would be great for people to contribute to Free Software by buying a copy of Free as in Freedom from Amazon I would like to also point out (in a spirit that I hope RMS will appreciate) that you can read it online for free as well here.

      As far as I'm concerned, pay or not, the more people that read it the better.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    2. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Yetihehe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... and now tremendous projects like Emacs have to move ahead without him.Fixed that for you... Still, kudos for RMS, he made much for free software.

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    3. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

      The book was typeset using proprietary closed source software.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    4. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      ... and now tremendous projects like Emacs have to move ahead without him.Fixed that for you... Still, kudos for RMS, he made much for free software.

      But what about those of us who don't have the disk space for a 5.89824e37 byte executable?

    5. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He certainly is passionate about coding but even more so about freedom. The FSF slogan 'free software - free society' says it all. The former is the means, the latter is the goal.

      rms is my personal savior.

    6. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? Mine wasn't - I typeset it using LaTeX and sent the publisher camera-ready copy as PDFs. I'd imagine Stallman would use groff, although might secretly be a TeX user since the FSF uses a TeX derivative for documentation these days.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by smclean · · Score: 4, Informative

      So you are arguing that reproducing is on par, talent-wise, with writing Emacs?

      If that were true, we'd have a lot more text editors to choose from.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

    8. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by eaman · · Score: 1

      IMHO, it is a good gift to send the official paperbook to someone.
      I just keep some around and some of smartest guys ask me to 'lend' them a copy.

    9. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Funny

      Those that can, fuck. Those that can't, write a text editor.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    10. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      great projects like Emacs

      Was this supposed to be modded as 'funny'.

    11. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Richard is a world class prick who cares about one single thing only, free software.

      Parent is clearly trolling -- http://www.stallman.org/ has plenty of non-software things that Stallman clearly cares about.

    12. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Right.
      You went to the store to check this, and you can't even remember the software?

      You know, my little twitter. You're so desperately trying to be a troll, just so at least *someone* interacts with you... and you're not even good at that one thing...
      The funny thing is, that people would interact with you, if you just were nice and acted like you had value. Because then you would have value.

      But who knows what shit happened to you, so you can't do that.

      I hope you get well soon... I really do...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    13. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's not what he was arguing, but congratulations on missing the point.

    14. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by DAldredge · · Score: 0, Troll

      He cares about his own version of Freedom. True freedom he doesn't like.

    15. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      I saw the book at barnes & noble once. I checked the back page... typeset with FrameMaker (or Quark, but it definitely wasn't FREE nor Open Source).

      Well if you follow the OP link to Amazon and then use their "Look inside" feature you can see the front cover, back cover and front and back flaps and they don't say anything about FrameMaker or Quark. So I call shenanigans.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    16. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could buy Richard's book, "Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. Stallman." And you can purchase it directly from the FSF, here: http://www.gnu.org/doc/book13.html

      @larry_bagina -- this book was typeset with texinfo and created using only free software ;-)

    17. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Quite so, he has a tendency to push for mandatory freedom on things.

    18. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's because the GPL has restrictions, as opposed to more libertarian licences like BSD?

      then what you understand for "true" freedom is naive, and you are a moron.

    19. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by larry+bagina · · Score: 0, Troll

      It was about 8 years ago jizzmop.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    20. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by larry+bagina · · Score: 0, Troll

      PS -- since lick my asshole

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    21. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet, the growth of the FSF distracted him from software development, and now great projects like Emacs have to move ahead without him.

      Everyone uses vi anyway.

    22. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by JoeBuck · · Score: 1

      RMS still actively works on Emacs, though he's no longer the release manager.

    23. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      What...?

      You...are... Stallman??

      That would explain a *lot*. :D

      P.S.: In German, "Stallmann" means "barn man". But in Germany, when you think of a barn, you think of cows/pigs, manure and dirt. :)))

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    24. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by ThJ · · Score: 1

      In Norwegian, "stallmann" means stable man, stable as in the place you keep your horses.

    25. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by TehZorroness · · Score: 2, Funny

      How many test editors have you written?

    26. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by TehZorroness · · Score: 1

      Though the GPL may take freedoms away from developers (the few), it grants them to the users (the many). It is a very valuable trade-off in my oppinion (and I am a developer).

    27. Re:Stallman pushed to the sidelines by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      There is a free HTML version of the book here. One of the demands, for writing the book, that is was to published under a free license. It was definitely an interesting read.

      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
  3. Importance of FSF by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is hard to grasp the importance of FSF, because one cannot see it until it is taken away. Free software is a good way to improve society as a whole just like the concept of a wheel, People use those free software all the time just like how wheels are incorporated in most of our technologies. Can anyone imagine what are the ramifications of a tightly controlled licensing scheme on wheel technology based fully on economics?

    --
    Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
    1. Re:Importance of FSF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tightly controlled licensing scheme on wheel technology? It'd have a monopoly for 15 years and then be completely free for everyone to use, everywhere.

      And if a company patented but didn't copyright their software, it'd be much better for the community than GPL, because at least the patent wears off after 15 years; GPL will stick for 90+ years.

    2. Re:Importance of FSF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can anyone imagine what are the ramifications of a tightly controlled licensing scheme on wheel technology based fully on economics?

      Yes, I can. It's called the entertainment/media conglomerates. Sony, Time-Warner and the rest of the scumbags. Another one that's popular on slashdot is Microsoft's windows OS and Office crack pipes.

  4. FSF has doors? by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's not really "open" if you ask me.

    1. Re:FSF has doors? by dvh.tosomja · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's "open" even with doors, unless it has windows.

    2. Re:FSF has doors? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      That's not really "open" if you ask me.

      No one said the doors were shut :-)

    3. Re:FSF has doors? by Kookus · · Score: 1

      glass doors, you can see in.

    4. Re:FSF has doors? by rfc11fan · · Score: 1

      As long as they're not windows, I'm happy.

    5. Re:FSF has doors? by CautionaryX · · Score: 1

      Hahaha man that is something I've never heard before. You're probably sitting on a Windows Vista or XP machine at work right now... that's right, ALL of you are.

  5. Behind the DOORS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Are you sure the FSF has DOORS?

    I'd imagined the FSF as a sort of a Tepee or maybe a Mongolian Yurt, with maybe a flap or something.

    Never anything as solid and 'non-open' as a door.

    1. Re:Behind the DOORS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have a 'dutch door.' The bottom is closed to keep the chickens and pigs out, but the top is open to let fresh air in.

    2. Re:Behind the DOORS? by Magitek0777 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure the FSF has DOORS?

      It has a door, but no Windows...

    3. Re:Behind the DOORS? by saibot834 · · Score: 1

      Well, I actually visited the FSF and I can assure you, that they at least have no Backdoors. ;-)

    4. Re:Behind the DOORS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tepee sounds about right. No Gates, no Windows, Apache inside...

    5. Re:Behind the DOORS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, man.... but how do you deal with the GAS from all those YACC and BISON..?

  6. Live Free Or Die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes I know, that's a Unix saying.
    Since I was old enough to comprehend building computers, I have been running Linux. Having open source has directly affected my life. Thanks FSF and the OSS community for giving me interest, and the biggest part, being able to have development tools and code that I can learn with and from. With most commercial products costing ALOT of money, Open Source gave me the ability to have corporate sized products, for no cost. And Microsoft fans out there I think realize this too. Anyone in the computer world at some point recognizes what FSF and the bunch has done to the technology based world.

    oh shit, is this post about Steve Ballmer? shit, I'll delete all my bootleg M$ software, I PROMISE!!

    1. Re:Live Free Or Die by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Since I was old enough to comprehend building computers, I have been running Linux.

      Say what? Linux came out well after the period when it was feasible to build your own computers, and computers were sold as self-build kits.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  7. Tax-Free baby! by Itninja · · Score: 0, Troll

    What's the purpose of the Free Software Foundation? In my experience working for/with non-profits, I would suspect the entire organization is just a tax-shelter for some high rollers in the industry. Why pay tax on your 6 figure salary, when you can donate 80% to a 501(c)(3) 'foundation' and write it off as a deduction? Then you get hired by the foundation as a manager, consultant, etc....and make all if not more of your money back through car allowances, marginally monitored expense accounts, and things adorably referred to as 'living stipends'. It's really kind of a sweet deal if you can pull it off.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    1. Re:Tax-Free baby! by smclean · · Score: 1

      As long as they keep hanging around the courthouse, more power to them.

      --

      "'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."

  8. Marginalized?!? by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These days, Stallman spends much of his time traveling to promote free software. However, contrary to what outsiders might expect, as president, he remains closely involved with FSF policy, asking frequently for status reports and making policy decisions that do not require other members of the board.

    Moreover, Brown says, "Richard can be very hands-on in relation to a specific target that he needs to be speaking about."

    You call that marginalized?

  9. Interesting comment below the article: by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nice way to gloss over the fact that the FSF has essentially failed to grasp the point that the only way free software will be perceived as a valid replacement for proprietary software is if it is a 1:1 replacement. gNewSense's latest release should prove that FOSS developer's time would be better spent at improving their software rather than wasting their time with the FSF. Especially considering that the FSF is run in a non-democratic manner.

    Thankfully other organizations exist that realize this and don't attempt to have us all waste time as the defective by design campaign does.

    While I don't agree with this comment in all aspects, I do believe an important part of promoting free software is to give incentives to free software coders, especially those in charge of replacing popular proprietary products that still don't have a free-software equivalent.

    1. Re:Interesting comment below the article: by maxume · · Score: 1

      One thing that needs to be more widely understood is that while people are cost conscious, they are (especially business people) a great deal more value conscious than they are cost conscious.

      Put simply: If no-cost software delivers $1,000 less value than $999 software, many people will opt for the $999 software.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  10. Handbook? by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Perhaps the best-known of the remaining roles in the FSF is the compliance engineer, a position currently held by Brett Smith.

    When I typed in "Compliance Engineer's handbook" into amazon's search, this is what I got - the book.

    So you need a Chemical engineering degree to be a compliance engineer?

  11. Free as in... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

    "The purpose of the Free Software Foundation (FSF) is probably obvious from its name -- but what does promoting free software mean in terms of everyday activity?

    I think they have something to do with free beer or speech.
    Free something. I can't remember. It's Friday and I've been drinking.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Free as in... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Funny
      The line 'free as in speech, not free as in beer' always struck me as some very poor marketing, for two reasons:
      1. Lots of people will argue against free speech in certain cases (e.g. slander and libel), but very few people would argue against free beer.
      2. After a few pints of free beer, free (although possibly slightly slurred) speech is pretty much guaranteed.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  12. Miguel de Icaza used to be on FSF Board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But he was kicked off the board due to mono releasing its class libraries under the MIT/X11 license instead of LGPL. You would have thought that MIT/X11 would be freer than the LGPL. MIT/X11 is like the BSD no advertising clause license.

    1. Re:Miguel de Icaza used to be on FSF Board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, it's more free, but it's incompatible with rms and fsf's goal, which is to control the source, namely to require (force) people to show what they did with it.

      In general I prefer the MIT/X11 license and I distributed two or three things under that license -- mainly because they were smallish and I didn't really care what anyone did with them after I released them.

      If I ever get the time to do some of the other things I want to do though, which would be quite a bit bigger and would also be things that I would want to have control over, I'd probably use the GPL or something similar.

    2. Re:Miguel de Icaza used to be on FSF Board by pinky0x51 · · Score: 1

      >But he was kicked off the board due to mono releasing its class libraries under the MIT/X11 license instead of LGPL

      That's just wrong! Miguel leaves the FSF long before mono or even .Net exists!

      --
      Support Free Software! Join FSFE's Fellowship: http://fellowship.fsfe.org
  13. You must be new here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You actually had 'bashed' in a comment about FSF and didn't go with a '/bin/bashed' joke?

    No soup for you.

  14. Steve.....Steve.... by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 5, Funny
    Steve...Steve...Steve...Steve...calm down, please. Put that chair down. Ok? It's a nice rainy day here, it's a beautiful campus, and we're THE rulers of the World. No problemo.

    I know, I know, Stallman has the "moral high ground", a full head of hair, and everything, but what does it matter? You're filthy rich and he's a peasant selling GNU toys and t-shirts on the internet.

    It's OK. Shhhh, sshhhh, it's OK...sh......

    Lullaby, Lullaby, Lullaby,...shhh...

  15. Slippery Slope by fictionpuss · · Score: 1

    By that definition, we also need bad extremists too. Or even gooderer good extremists. But who can out-Stallman Stallman?

    --
    I saved my karma for this?

    1. Re:Slippery Slope by Kozz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're leading yourself to a rather pure philosophical argument. But I might agree that we need "bad" extremists.

      Having nutjobs on both ends of a spectrum lends the rest of us (middle of the bell curve) a bit of perspective, whether it's in regards to technology, politics or religion.

      Of course, it might be that my "good" extremists are your "bad" extremists and so on.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    2. Re:Slippery Slope by fictionpuss · · Score: 1

      Of course, it might be that my "good" extremists are your "bad" extremists and so on.

      That's why I don't think of it as a bell curve but more of a massively multidimensional continuum with all sorts of localised minima and maxima. And possibly the occasional wormhole, at least when projecting to a reduced set of criteria.

      Which would sound like a rather obtuse argument for moral relativism, unless you accept that these deliberations are part of the process and cannot be meta. Which I just did.

    3. Re:Slippery Slope by stevey · · Score: 1

      ESR ?

  16. Resources for .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That website has resource links for a variety of occupations:

    # For everybody
    # For computer scientists
    # For economists
    # For lawyers

    Where's the link "For hitmen" ? They can certainly leverage their core-competency to fix this problem.

  17. Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Free means different things to different people. The GPL provides more freedom to users by requiring coders to give back to the community. The MIT/X11/BSD style license provides more freedom to coders, because they don't have to give back to the community.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Not this old debate again. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      Free means different things to different people. The GPL provides more freedom to users by requiring coders to give back to the community. The MIT/X11/BSD style license provides more freedom to coders, because they don't have to give back to the community.

      What license style increases user freedom by increasing the number of apps available to use?

    2. Re:Not this old debate again. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Free means different things to different people. The GPL provides more freedom to users by requiring coders to give back to the community. The MIT/X11/BSD style license provides more freedom to coders, because they don't have to give back to the community.

      A perfect example for this is when the Cedega project promised to give back to the community their advances with DirectX under WINE. Fortunately (for them), WINE was licensed under the X11 license. Guess what happened? Nothing, that's what happened! Thanks to that, DirectX work under WINE froze for several years, leaving users pissed off and having to purchase Cedega for something they were supposed to enjoy for free in the first place.

      And for this reason, I'm glad that Stallman kicked Miguel out of the FSF Board.

    3. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      I don't think there's a correlation. One could argue that the MIT/X11/BSD style increases the number of apps one can BUY, but it doesn't increase the number a user can use for free. So the license isn't increasing the number of apps the user could use, the user is increasing the number of apps they can use, by paying for them.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:Not this old debate again. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't that more of a "dishonest asshole" or "naive fool" issue than a licensing issue? You also can't just say that with GPL, wine would obviously have gotten all of the cedega work, you also have to account for the (probably very hard to quantify) possibility that cedega wouldn't have existed at all...

    5. Re:Not this old debate again. by TheSunborn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And let's just look at the alternative here.

      If Cedega gave all the code back to wine, then wine would be as good as Cedega, and nobody would buy Cedega. Cedega would thus close down which would
      leaving DirectX work under WINE frozen for several years.

      I fail to se how that is a better solution.

    6. Re:Not this old debate again. by hedwards · · Score: 1

      So, in other words, you'd rather have nothing at all rather than give up this sort of superficial freedom. Good call chief. I mean, how on earth would one have freedom if it weren't forced upon us.

      This is one of the reasons why people hate RMS, the FSF doesn't represent freedom, it represents a very narrow definition of freedom, which removes a lot of the choices involved.

    7. Re:Not this old debate again. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because people said "why work on DirectX? The Cedega guys promised they'd give us the code". Remember that Cedega weren't the ONLY people who knew how to implement DirectX under wine, but they cheated on WINE so that NOBODY worked on it and they'd be ahead of WINE.

      Only after the WINE team reacted, changed the license to GPL (or LGPL in case of winelib) and began to work, WINE recovered.

    8. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrong, the GPL removes a few immoral choices from a small set of people (coders and software company owners) and increases choices for a larger set (end users.) And I think it's only a small set of people that hate RMS, the people who want to profit off the work of others without giving anything back.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    9. Re:Not this old debate again. by mollymoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I mean, how on earth would one have freedom if it weren't forced upon us.

      As a society, for any meaningful definition of freedom, you do indeed have to have it forced upon you. You're not one of these naive fools who thinks having no rules is equivalent to freedom, are you? Anarchy only provides freedom to the biggest guy.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    10. Re:Not this old debate again. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      Funny, I thought it was attaching strings to your gifts that was immoral.

    11. Re:Not this old debate again. by pilot1 · · Score: 1

      You also can't just say that with GPL, wine would obviously have gotten all of the cedega work, you also have to account for the (probably very hard to quantify) possibility that cedega wouldn't have existed at all...

      How is that a bad thing? wine is now ahead of cedega in almost every area (save playing games that require copy protection) and would have been far sooner if DirectX work hadn't been frozen while everyone waited for cedega's improvements. Either way you look at it, we would be better off if wine had originally been LGPLed as it is now.

    12. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, because they aren't gifts, and no one ever said they were. Thus the strings, which ensure more freedoms for end users. People who wish to extend and distribute the software receive a license to do so in exchange for a promise to share their work. This is a commercial exchange, not a gift.

      The other licenses have strings as well, for instance, attribution. A gift wouldn't require attribution. These licenses also involve commercial exchange, even though the promises extracted in exchange for the license are less. The only real gift is putting it in the public domain.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    13. Re:Not this old debate again. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      ...point being, who decides that the things the GPL forbids are immoral, or even that it is moral to forbid them (someone who makes physical items certainly doesn't get that kind of control)? Why aren't the end users permitted to choose whether they place more value in complete modifiability or preexisting features & usability, and how is removing this choice from them considered to be giving them more freedom?

    14. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Not this old debate again.

      It's never going to end.

      The GPL provides more freedom to users by requiring coders to give back to the community.

      Freedom != capability. If I know how to read, and you don't, then you can't call it freedom by forcing me to teach you how to read. Freedom means I can't forbid somebody from teaching you how to read. Freedom means I can't tell you what to read. Get it?

    15. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      The GPL doesn't remove freedom, copyright does. The GPL gives it back, with stipulations. You're barking up the wrong tree.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    16. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      The author of the work decides. Without the GPL, everyone else has no rights to distribute or modify the work. The GPL gives rights, it does not take them away. Copyright is the mechanism that denies people the right to modify and distribute the works of others, not the GPL. The end users aren't permitted to decide the license because they did not create the work. The difference between physical and intellectual works is set in place by our constitution and our government, as a means to encourage the development and sharing of intellectual and artistic works. Baring any agreements to the contrary, end users have no rights to a work, so the GPL isn't removing anything. It is adding rights, but with stipulations, not taking away rights. And end users have more choice, because developers can't take without giving back. End users aren't developers.

      What you are talking about is giving uninterested third party developers the right to modify and distribute the works of others for profit, without anything going to the original author. That isn't freedom, it's exploitation.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    17. Re:Not this old debate again. by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware that whether something was right followed directly from whether it was legal.

    18. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware that whether something was right followed directly from whether it was legal.

      It doesn't, but the issues you raise seem to be with the copyright system itself, not specifically with the GPL. Or maybe I am confused, because you also seem to want to retain the right to a government granted monopoly not only on your own creations, but on the creations of others. Without copyright, there is no BSD license, either. Everyone copies everything.

      So which is it?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    19. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The GPL doesn't remove freedom, copyright does.

      I agree that copyright removes freedoms.

      The GPL gives it back, with stipulations.

      The stipulations remove freedom. That becomes obvious if you think how those stipulations would be enforced if copyright went away.

    20. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      Again, removes freedom from whom? From developers and distributors who wish to use the code without giving back. That increases freedom for end users. Freedom is always a trade off. The right not to be hit in the face entails giving up the right to swing your arms wherever you like.

      Without copyright, the GPL would be redundant, as there would be no such thing as commercial software. Everyone would simply copy anything they like. Nobody could charge money for software at all.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    21. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Without copyright, the GPL would be redundant, as there would be no such thing as commercial software.

      One of the requirements of the GPL is that source must be distributed. Without copyright, this requirement is unenforceable.

      Everyone would simply copy anything they like. Nobody could charge money for software at all.

      You could charge money, as the FSF and GPL advocates are fond of stating, though of course past the first sale there is reduced incentive. In addition, withholding source would be a commercial advantage if you wanted to charge people for custom features.

    22. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      Is this an IP law debate? I thought it was a GPL vs. BSD style license debate. Both of which rely on IP law. If you want to provide real freedom, release your source into the public domain. Any license relies on copyright law, and limits freedom. The debate isn't about whether to limit freedoms, as all licenses do that. It is about which freedoms to limit, in exchange for which benefits. If you don't like one license, use another. But no license can claim any kind of moral high ground.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    23. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Is this an IP law debate?

      It's a simple debate about what "freedom" means. Placing restrictions on users that take away their freedom is NOT freedom, as I've tried to make clear by showing what happens if copyright no longer applies. You may argue that more software with greater freedoms results from this restriction, but that's a 2nd order effect of taking away freedom from the individual.

      I think this distinction is important, lest the true meaning of freedom is lost. Freedom does not mean you have to "give back".

      If you want to provide real freedom, release your source into the public domain.

      That's the general idea, but see below.

      Any license relies on copyright law, and limits freedom.

      A license is required to abdicate copyright, or so claims at least one lawyer:

      "Just as there is nothing in the law that permits a person to dump personal property on a public highway, there is nothing that permits the dumping of copyrighted works into the public domain, except as happens in due course when any applicable copyrights expire. Until those copyrights expire, no mechanism is in the law by which an owner of software can simply elect to place it in the public domain."

      That being said, you can write a license to disclaim all the privileges of copyright.

      But no license can claim any kind of moral high ground.

      You cannot call one license "more free", as Stallman and the FSF like to do, when it places more restrictions on the recipient. Licenses like the MIT or BSD licenses are pretty close to public domain and contain fewer restrictions than the GPL.

    24. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      I tried to explain how your view of freedom is simplistic. All freedom involves taking away one form of freedom in order to grant a more valuable form of freedom. In society, all freedom is a contract between individuals. I don't want to get hit in the face. I enter into a contract that limits my freedom, in exchange for not being hit in the face. I now have freedom from being hit in the face, but I don't have the freedom to swing my arms wherever I like.

      You are essentially ignoring millenia of philosophical discussion on negative and positive freedoms, and attempting to define freedom in your own terms. As long as you maintain a non standard definition of freedom, you can win the argument (in your own head, anyway) by simply saying, "no, you're wrong, that's not what freedom means." However, you won't get many educated people to agree with you.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    25. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      As an example, let me ask you this: is a society that restricts its members from killing one another more or less free than one that doesn't enforce such restrictions? By your definition of freedom, such a society is less free. But most people would agree that such a society is not a free society, because powerful people could use the threat of violence to coerce the less powerful without the threat of societal repercussions.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    26. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      As an example, let me ask you this: is a society that restricts its members from killing one another more or less free than one that doesn't enforce such restrictions?

      It's a really poor analogy, because something is being taken away from the person being killed. Technically I might say that the right to be protected from violence isn't exactly the same as freedom, but it's not really a debate I care to engage in, since obviously you can't have freedom if you're dead :) The main point is the analogy is bad.

      In the case of the GPL, something is given and accepted freely, yet the GPL places restrictions on the recipient.

      A better analogy would be consumer protection laws. They take away freedom of the seller and the consumer buy restricting under what conditions an item might be sold. An example would be requiring a list of ingredients. We don't enact these laws in the name of freedom, but fully admit them as regulations that take away freedoms for benefits to society.

      The same goes for copyright. We don't enact copyright laws in the name of freedom. If, someday, the copyright laws were to go away, it would be important to know which conditions of the GPL were granting freedoms that were taken away, and which are a restriction of freedom. The requirement for source is not about freedom at all, yet Stallman insists it is. This is corrupt.

      I'll concede part of the argument though. In a world with copyright, requiring that granted freedoms from copyright be continued is defensible in the name of freedom, because it is restoring natural rights. It's really the "source required" part that I object to.

    27. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why you keep making the gift analogy. GPL isn't a gift, it is a commercial transaction, and if you don't like the price (the restrictions) then don't buy the product (don't distribute it.) The idea is really based on contract law, and contracts freely entered into by both parties can never be a restriction of freedom.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    28. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why you keep making the gift analogy.

      I never said "gift" once in my post. I assume you are talking about this phrase: "In the case of the GPL, something is given and accepted freely". What I mean is the giver wasn't compelled to make the offer, and the receiver wasn't compelled to accept the offer. I'm contrasting that to your "kill" analogy.

      The idea is really based on contract law

      Contract laws applies to individuals, not to society as a whole. The GPL rests on copyright, not contract law.

      contracts freely entered into by both parties can never be a restriction of freedom

      You wouldn't call a contract that removes freedoms "freer" than a contract that doesn't. If two people are selling hammers under contract, and one says "You can only pound nails sold by me", and the other says "Do whatever you want with your hammer", it's obvious to critique the contracts as regards freedom.

    29. Re:Not this old debate again. by spun · · Score: 1

      Another bad analogy. I would say, it is like two people giving away free hammers. One says, "You can use this hammer for anything you like, just mention my name." The other says, "You can use this hammer for anything you like, but if you redesign the hammer, you have to share the designs."

      In a simple analysis, you could claim the second contract reduces the hammer user's freedom more. However, this is only counting negative freedoms, or freedom from interference. It is not counting the creation of positive freedoms, or freedom to do something.

      You seem to be of the opinion that only negative freedoms count as freedom. And this is always the case in this debate, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. People who argue as you do always have a limited view of freedom, only counting freedom from, not freedom to.

      Society operates by trading "freedom froms" for "freedom tos." A person alone in the world is perfectly free from restriction. But they aren't free to do as many things as a person living in a society. If trading freedom from restrictions for freedom to do more things weren't an attractive proposition that most people count as creating more freedom, most people wouldn't live in societies.

      The GPL restricts your negative freedoms more than the BSD license. But it creates more positive freedoms.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    30. Re:Not this old debate again. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      You seem to be of the opinion that only negative freedoms count as freedom. And this is always the case in this debate, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

      To be honest, I had never heard of the idea of "negative freedom" and "positive freedom", and had dismissed it as spin from the FSF camp. However, since your reply I have taken a look on the web and read up on it.

      It seems to me the use of the word freedom to mean "positive freedom" is a modern usage popularized by Berlin in the 1950s and 1960s. It's certainly not the common usage of freedom. It's more indirect than the most basic, "negative" freedom. I also find the "negative" and "positive" terms to be loaded.

      The problem with "positive" freedom is that it's too esoteric, prone to spin and abuse. You can trample on all kinds of basic freedoms in the name of "positive" freedom, ending up with Copyright is Freedom. Drug Laws are Freedom. The Patriot Act is Freedom. Slavery is Freedom. Fuck that shit. It's no good when an oppressive government does it, and neither is it good when Stallman does it.

      I'm not interested in a philosopher's debate that end up corrupting words that have a common, useful definition. We have other words besides freedom to talk about stuff like requiring source code: "enable", "empower", "enhance potential", "maximize utility". But there's no way I'm going to accept a requirement of giving source code as a condition of freedom. That's completely corrupt.

  18. Not Obvious by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The purpose of the Free Software Foundation (FSF) is probably obvious from its name...

    That's a pretty clueless statement. If it were obvious, then we wouldn't have to make the Beer/Speech distinction every time we used the word.

    One reason this is unclear: to many of us, it's not at all clear that whether you have the right to hack somebody else's code is a first amendment issue. In a technical sense, I suppose it is. But that's the same technical sense that Comcast uses when they assert their right to give us 500 channels of crap. Even if legally valid, it's hard to get worked up over it.

    The main contribution of the FSF to posterity has been to create the Open Source movement, which has proven to be a superior model for large-scale collaboration than the old standards committees it replaced. This was obvious to me the first time I compared early prototype of open source desktops like KDE and GNOME to their committee-managed predecessors, such as (the late, unlamented) CDE. Even early betas of the OS desktops had more functionality than CDE, which had been under development for many years.

    But does FSF boast about their role in inventing Open Source? They do not. They consider OS, arguably their biggest accomplishment, as a distraction. That's because the FSF is about changing all the intellectual property rules as it relates to software, not about better development models. And IMHO, they don't really have a lot to show for 25 years of attacks on that particular windmill.

    1. Re:Not Obvious by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The main contribution of the FSF to posterity has been to create the Open Source movement

      The Open Source movement was a break from the old guard at the FSF. The way you state it sounds like the FSF set out to create Open Source. They didn't.

      But does FSF boast about their role in inventing Open Source?

      They resent having their thunder stolen. They don't like the inclusive nature of Open Source -- that it's ok for proprietary software to co-exist with open source.

    2. Re:Not Obvious by fm6 · · Score: 1

      The way you state it sounds like the FSF set out to create Open Source.

      And you make it sound like I'm an admirer of the FSF. If you think that I do, you need to work on your reading skills.

    3. Re:Not Obvious by Raenex · · Score: 1

      And you make it sound like I'm an admirer of the FSF.

      Huh? How do you draw that conclusion? Work on your own reading skills.

      My only comment was on your poor representation of the FSF as having "create the Open Source movement", and stating the obvious reason why they wouldn't wave a flag for "inventing Open Source".

    4. Re:Not Obvious by fm6 · · Score: 1

      How do you draw that conclusion?

      I asked you first.

  19. Henry Poole? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Henry Poole.. as in the Henry Poole who nearly single-handedly sunk (then) Mandrake? Hope it's a different Henry Poole as I'm not sure what *that* HP would be doing on the FSF board other than trying to bleed it dry.

  20. No mention of the Propaganda Department? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's surprising- they made no mention of the department where the FSF comes up with their FUD campaigns against non-free software.

    Did it get shut down after the "Mojave" thing embarrassed them? It definitely bears some looking in to.

  21. Behind WHAT door?!? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    It must be Slashdot's choice of background color.

    I wacky-parsed that title to read:

    "Behind the Green Door of the Free Software Foundation"

    Please announce torrent and seed.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  22. Not exactly by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 0, Troll

    """
    The purpose of the Free Software Foundation (FSF) is probably obvious from its name
    """

    Not exactly. See, Free to most people means free. And unfortunately, RMS redefined free as Free. The devil is in the details. Reading the fine print reveals that there is profound restrictions on developers (the users of the libraries, utilities, etc). So, Free by way of the (L)GPL isn't exactly free. In other words, citing freedom for one group (end users) by way of clobbering the freedom of another group (the developers) doesn't exactly mean free in any rational definition of the word.

    So yah, not exactly obvious by its name. You really have to dig to find out exactly what these guys are up to.

    1. Re:Not exactly by pinky0x51 · · Score: 1

      >So, Free by way of the (L)GPL isn't exactly free.

      But the GPL isn't the Free Software Definition, the GPL is just one of many Free Software licenses! And i can't find anything in the Free Software definition which doesn't fit any rational definition of the word.

      --
      Support Free Software! Join FSFE's Fellowship: http://fellowship.fsfe.org
  23. I disagree with the whole framework by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having principles is not extreme. It's actually not really possible *not to have them.

    Abandoning your principles when they're inconvenient is not "moderate".

    If you claim to have principle X, and abandon it when it's inconvenient, your *actual principle is "convenience", and it coincided with principle X for awhile.

    X doesn't suddenly become extreme because it's not your principle.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:I disagree with the whole framework by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember kids, when you choose not to write and release your own modern GPL'd font software, you're not "moderately" in favor of using open source, you're only using and writing it when convenient, and everyone knows convenience is evil.

      God forbid convenience be a compelling argument to GPL'd software!

  24. first read the whole, then judge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/
    do you have read all of these stuff, guys?

  25. A look at the finances of the FSF by bratgitarre · · Score: 1

    And for those interested in the finances of the FSF, see Charity Navigator.

  26. Behind the doors of the FSF... by dangitman · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... you are eaten by a Grue.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  27. No... it is excellent marketing by coryking · · Score: 1

    If you dont mind warping language to deliberately confuse people. For political propaganda, nothing beats perverting words like freedom to make your agenda more lovable.

    See also: the republican party, bush, any dictator worth his salt.