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Dell's Subnotebook To Ship With Ubuntu
k33l0r writes "Dell's entry into the sub-notebook market, the Inspiron 910, will ship with Ubuntu preinstalled. This was confirmed this morning when Gizmodo published (leaked) specifications for the Inspiron 910." I hope that's not the final form of the keyboard, though -- lots of wasted space on each side.
Will Dell's support still suck?
I wish my EEE 901 had shipped with ubuntu too, instead of Xandros.
Not that it's bad for beginners, but I'm not sure I want such a toy OS. I know Ubuntu eee exists, but I'd musch rather have the official distro. Or debian...
But does it run linux?
Items of interest (to me at least): 8.9" WSVGA TL 1024x600 (WLED) screen 2.20 lbs w/ 4-cell battery Bluetooth via mini-card (apparently not included) CPU 1.6 GHz, 533 MHz, 512K single core Intel Atom N270 Diamondville Thanks. Hope it does come in at the $299 price...
Get it? Sub notebook?
Oh, alright! I'm going back to work...well, I'll just pretend I have work.
I hope that's not the final form of the keyboard, though -- lots of wasted space on each side
I reckon it IS the final look, given it's true what the source cited in the article says, and the thing is shipping next Friday.
Anyway, you can use that space for a couple stickers...
Dawkins Revisited: A person is shit's way of making more shit -- Steve Barnett, anthropologist.
I have an 8.9" eee pc running on the Intel Mobile Processor (read Celeron). I have both Ubuntu and XP running on dual boot but use Ubuntu more than often. XP is still **very** slow on the laptop and there is continuous disk activity while running it.
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
This would seem a lot neater, if not more worth while, if it had a dock option. I just look at what HP did with the 1100 tablet and it's dock and think that they had the right idea with some slight short comings. Something in the same vein could have been done with this.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
The wasted space isn't the only problem. What's worse (and far, far worse IMHO) is the way the keyboard is laid out. The 3rd row down is placed too far to the left - the A and Q almost line up. Caps-Lock is WAY too short, and enter is too wide. Bit of the inverse of the crap Apple once pulled off. To add insult to injury, the >, <, ? and " keys have a different size.
Really, I'd run away from that keyboard FAST.
Of course it will, but at least you can seek better paid support elsewhere (Canonical) or indeed the quite excellent ubuntuforums.org for free. I love the way the UMPC market is exposing Linux to people who would never have heard of it otherwise, there was even an MS spokesdrone in our local computing press saying that "Yes, the Linux option is suitable for beginners but experienced users would prefer the Windows option on the EEE", laugh, I nearly wet myself.
"Linux is for noobs"-The new MS fud strategy
...then print Tux on that silly windows key please?
Linux won't really get to Proliferate much if the server keeps melting as this one has ;)
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Might be obvious, but a little googling is all it takes to put Ubuntu on an EEE. Edubuntu 7.10 installed on mine with no real problems. But for normal people, yes it would be nice if it came preinstalled. The Intel Classmate comes with a version of Edubuntu 8.04 from Go2PC that is getting more stable every day. This may be Ubuntu's market if they can sign up more OEM's.
Where is touch screen & Pixel Qi battery saving...
I hate the touch pads on laptops.... where is touch screen and Pixel Qi's OLPC XO screen and battery saving tech?
Maybe you posted as an AC just to get a quick jab in but I would pose that question seriously.
It seems that, with the gadget crowd, Linux support is always sweet in the beginning as they oogle over the new machine but as soon as something new comes out the old gadget is left to collect dust. Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues. The people who really understand Linux are too busy with the new gadget to support the old. It's the long term user who's left holding the bag.
Will Dell continue to support this as the distro progresses or should the unit come with a sticker warning the user not to upgrade beyond the current version? It's kind of burned my ass the number of times I tried to pull some older gadgets over to Linux only to find that if I use the distro's 2 or 3 year old package I was fine but if I wanted the latest and greatest I was busied with the work of just getting basic functionality going. The upgrade cycle concerns me too much in some cases to give Linux a try if the only support I have is community based.
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games. But even if that wasn't an issue I still haven't warmed up to the community support aspect.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I'm involved with a fairly large Linux desktop deployment and I've noticed that whenever a blog post or article is posted for desktop Linux, a lot of MS apologist come in stating that Windows is a better deeper experience and you are shortchanging your students/workers by giving them Linux. While I'm a Linux zealot, I am willing to deploy Windows and MAC when I need to and it makes since from a performance/cost perspective. I don't believe this is a paid guerrilla advertising campaign from MS, but suspect that a lot of small ISV's that tied their livelihood to supporting Windows installations are nervous about the growing market share of Linux. It might be less than 1% of the market, but start paying attention when you walk into a call center, retail store, hospital or school. Actually paying attention may not be enough because they are well camouflaged.
I'm hoping that there is an option to upgrade the display resolution. 1024x600 may be fine for most documents or websites but I have gotten used to my 1400x1050 14" display and I am willing to pay for higher pixel densities.
I have found this to be less the case with Linux than any other OS. Linux distros tend to be very good with backward hardware support so it is usually very easy to upgrade your existing hardware to the newest distro version.
With Ubuntu upgrades, even to beta releases if you set your prefences to allow them, happen as easily as any other update. I've heard of some people having problems after upgrades but I don't believe they are very widespread. Compares with Windows upgrades I've done Ubuntu is better at preserving my setup and adding less stupidity I don't want. After a Windows upgrade it is always an adventure to navigate the through the various roadblocks they've hidden the screen resolution changing utility behind. I typically have to find it first off because my video drivers never survive the upgrade and it reverts to 640x480.
I mostly use Macs and since I'm not allergic to buying new machines the upgrade cycle is pretty simple. When I want to make old hardware useful I tend to go with Linux though.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
I hope it comes with Xubuntu with specs like that. Get the upgrade to 1024 MB if your going to run Gnome.
Now I just have to contain myself until Friday.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
They can use the long term support versions of Ubuntu. They are supposed to be supported for several years.
On the other hand I love to update my distro every 6 months to test new things and thats why I use kubuntu.
Mandriva supports the Eee PC directly. Just get the latest version and install it. No big deal.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I wish for more hard disk space, and Xubuntu instead of Gnome which eats up everything.
slashdot rocks
Experienced users are indeed more likely to prefer the Windows option -- as long as they are experienced as in they have Windows experience.
And Windows users who try to use their existing skills and habits generally also find themselves having many issues. In fact, Windows "Power Users" frequently have more problems with Linux than people with little or no computer experience, for this very reason. Typically, the most vehement "Linux is not ready for the desktop yet" arguments come from ingrained Windows users who reason that if they couldn't make the switch, a less-experienced user has no chance. But this is the exact opposite of the truth.
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
When ideas fail, words become very handy.
I reckon a nootbook, or even a subnootbook, is a bit more than just a "gadget". Its in both the interest of people working on Ubuntu, and companies like Dell who use their product, to keep functionality going.
While the community based support for Linux have always been enough to cover my needs; there are a number of people offering Linux support who is more than willing to take your money and give you all the additional help you would require.
With the Open Source community continuing to grow I am certain it is only a matter of time until Linux gets the recognition it is beginning to deserve.
The Long Now Foundation
A gadget like this doesn't need support. You install Linux and then you leave it alone - don't fix it if it ain't broke. It will keep running for many years and keep working just like the day you bought it.
How often do you update the software in your refrigerator?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games.
Well that's clearly a non-argument.
"sudo apt-get install pixfrogger" should satisfy any gamer's needs for a lifetime.
The funny thing is that hardware support usually improves over time. By the time Ubuntu does move a version or two everything will be supported out of the box.
If community support bothers you, how do you deal with Microsoft? I doubt you have ever actually called them up and asked for support yet you seem to have no issues running Windows at home (using community support if you need it.)
Tom's Hardware suggested the Celeron is faster than the Atom, but really the Atom seems able to do whatever is necessary and any slight slowdown is compensated by the unnoticeable fan noise.
Perhaps this is partly due to Dell exercising a bit more pressure on Microsoft not to drop XP. Which, btw, according to the same hardware site, runs considerably better on both the Atom and the Celeron than on Vista.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
There's actually a pretty widespread problem upgrading to Hardy, where it hangs at "generating locales". In fact, in Firefox, if you select Google from the search at the top right, start to type "ubuntu upgrade", then scroll down, you should see both "ubuntu upgrade stuck generating locales" and "ubuntu upgrade locales" out of the roughly 10 suggested searches. (not my searches, the suggested ones.)
Ubuntu must run in all "notepads"...
-- Simon said: Die!
{Off topic pedantry}
Ubuntu can run on a spiral ring notebook? It would make more sense to install it on a laptop. If it is pre-installed, that would mean that it is NOT installed. Pre means before (not 'in advance'). As in... not yet. Pre Civil War means before the Civil War, not Civil War already in progress. Pre- is for events... not verbs. A machine with no operating system installed at all would be "pre"-installed. A "pre"-heated oven would be room temperature.
Marketing and MBA speak is killing the English language faster than a failing education system and buggy spell check programs.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
You a little deliberately short on specifics, your comment might be worthwhile if you were able to pinpoint a device that shipped with Linux on it where the creator of that product has dropped support, but is still around. Even so, you're still very vague with what's supported or not.
It seems that, with the gadget crowd, Linux support is always sweet in the beginning as they oogle over the new machine but as soon as something new comes out the old gadget is left to collect dust. Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues. The people who really understand Linux are too busy with the new gadget to support the old. It's the long term user who's left holding the bag.
This is a large company (Dell) buying software from another reasonably large company (Canonical) so it's not really fair to talk about devices that maybe never supported Linux in the first place, made by who knows, supported only by geeks.
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening? Because it's been my experience that my hardware works better with each release, and I haven't seen forums bubbling over with ignored support issues with older hardware as you imply.
Will Dell continue to support this as the distro progresses or should the unit come with a sticker warning the user not to upgrade beyond the current version? It's kind of burned my ass the number of times I tried to pull some older gadgets over to Linux only to find that if I use the distro's 2 or 3 year old package I was fine but if I wanted the latest and greatest I was busied with the work of just getting basic functionality going. The upgrade cycle concerns me too much in some cases to give Linux a try if the only support I have is community based.
Not everyone in the world has the weak consumer laws that you're obviously subject to... if Dell release a product and drop support for it within an unreasonably short timeframe, in much of the world they'll be pilloried and made and example of by the law - because many countries don't allow people to drop a product and run unless they're out of business. So no, I'd say there's no chance whatsoever that Dell will not "continue to support" it, unless they want to be bankrupted in court.
At any rate there's far, far less chance that Dell will fail to support an operating system that they can pick up and fix themselves if necessary, than there is that they'll drop support for something where they have no recourse if the manufacturer decides to discontinue support. Like, Ooh... I don't know... Windows, and most of the third party device drivers for it.
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games. But even if that wasn't an issue I still haven't warmed up to the community support aspect.
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
Seriously, what does Microsoft offer in the way of support to a single home user that isn't available for a cheaper price for Ubuntu or another commercially supported distribution? This supposed support sounds like a fallacy to me, pretty much like the rest of this post. It's fine that you like Windows, but there's no need to make up FUD about Linux to justify your standpoint.
Windows seems like a perfectly fine solution for a certain class of user, and to them I say "To each their own, and mind your fucking bullshit when you talk about mine"
Au contraire, Ubuntu 8.04 is an LTS version. It is Ubuntu 8.04 LTS.
"LTS" stands for ... wait for it ... "Long Term Support".
http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2008-July/000112.html
"This is the first maintenance release of Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, which continues to be supported with maintenance updates and security fixes until April
2011 on desktops and April 2013 on servers."
On the other hand , if they are experienced with Linux , they are going to get a lot more out of it then ever possible with Windows.
Slipping shoelaces ?
Same rag had two security articles last month flagged on the cover, the Fortify report on security in Open Source and the Debian SSL issue, 90% of their ads are either directly for MS products or for products that run in an MS ecosystem but they are essential reading on who's doing what in the Irish IT scene.
"Linux is for noobs"-The new MS fud strategy
How often do you update the software in your refrigerator?
My current refrigerator doesn't connect to the Internet, so it's not vunerable to new exploits.
You install Linux and then you leave it alone - don't fix it if it ain't broke. It will keep running for many years and keep working just like the day you bought it.
It should be fine for *three* years (if you apply the security updates regularly) - that's when the support is currently scheduled to end for Ubuntu 8.04. If you are still using it then, it *is* important that you upgrade to a supported release, unless you're happy to have it exploited and expose (e.g.) your banking details.
Yes, you're a lot safer than with Windows; you're 99.999% certain not to get a virus; but you are vunerable to browser based privacy-type exploits.
Anything that connects to the Internet needs regular security updates.
but why does it still have a windows key?
'sig' deleted due to the stupidity of it's 'nature'
I don't know which gadgets you are talking about.
As far as I'm concerned, old stuff doesn't get dropped. It happened to me a lot, lack of upgraded drivers, when changing OS, mainly due to manufacturer going out of business, or dropping product lines, but no in Linux, mainly because drivers crawl into mainstream Linux, and the manufacturer no longer has full control and responsibility over the driver. Usually, just recompiling the driver just works(TM).
Even if that _were_ the case (which it is't), Dell computers would stay supported by Canonical at least as long as there is Canonical. It's cheap to support a couple of hardware drivers that already work and are integrated in mainstream Linux, and it makes PR sense. Anyhow, it wouldn't be that hard for any individual to keep them maintained, at that point.
Dell's Subnotebook To Ship With Ubuntu
I don't know why, maybe its the lack of coffee, but I actually chuckled when I read that.
They are supposed to be supported for several years.
Three years on the desktop (5 on the server) and a two year release cycle. That means one year of overlap
Which means depending on the point in the release cycle you install at you will have between 1 and 3 years before you have to upgrade or lose security updates. And that is assuming that the vendor can start shipping a new LTS release as soon as it is released, if they can't the figures get even worse.
compare that to MS who's current lifecycle policy promises 7 years of support overlap between between releases and 2 years of support overlap between service packs for the same release.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
It should be fine for *three* years
That's three years from when it was released not three years from now. Ok so two years 8 months isn't too bad but when the next LTS release arrives the old one will have only 1 year left. Say it takes vendors 9 months to switch to the new LTS release and (assuimg the vendors don't abandon ubuntu before that) you will have machines being sold with only 9 months security updates support left.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
However, are they pre-installing Ubuntu because XP will not run satisfactorily with the base system configuration (512MB RAM, etc.), or because XP is more expensive?
In a way, a combination of both. My 7-year-old Dell PC has a CPU and RAM comparable to today's netbooks (0.86 GHz PIII, 384 MB RAM), and it runs Windows XP, Firefox 3, VirtualDub, Lockjaw, and StepMania just fine. But then I keep it comparatively clean, without a lot of icons in the tray and with no antivirus other than ClamWin's weekly full system scan. I'm guessing that XP will run just fine on this system, but the trialware that subsidizes an XP license does not.
You wanna bet that they aren't already working on an "XP-Lite" version to counter this threat?
There already is Windows XP Lite. It's called Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, intended to replace Windows 98 Second Edition in corporate environments. It's Windows Vista that needs to be made lite in order to run on a netbook.
What people use laptops and netbooks for is easier for linux to do than to try to be everything for everyone on the desktop.
And good luck with upgrading the storage on this one, it has a PCI Express minicard SSD instead of a standard SATA drive.
Is there an ExpressCard or USB slot? If so, add an SDHC adapter.
Yes, that's a bug...and one I recently encountered. But the fix is easy (but admittedly not obvious). You just kill the processes that hang and then reinstall the locales package once you restart. I fully agree that manually killing processes is not something you want your average user to have to do, but the workarounds are out there and (for the most part) clearly documented in those links you speak of.
I think this discussion started from someone wondering if Dell will continue to support this laptop several years down the road. To me it seems that as hardware matures its support just gets better. Just think of how many posts you hear about people putting xubuntu on their "old P2 sitting around collecting dust" and it "just works" because that hardware is well understood. So as long as Dell provides enough information about the hardware at the onset, then it will be supported well at first and as bugs/issues arise they will be incorporated into the mainstream codebases.
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues. The people who really understand Linux are too busy with the new gadget to support the old.
This subnotebook comes with ubuntu 8.04, wich is an LTR (Long Term Support) release. Canonical will support it for 3 years. Seems enough to me.
-- dnl
It will now.
If you tried to get Linux support from Dell a year ago, it was phenomenal. They had a dedicated team to their Ubuntu deployment.
Now days, the support is: Reformat, reinstall, replace.
Well the Atom platform is pretty proven for OSX - here it is running on my MSI Wind sub-note. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3CNIO4ZLYE
Actually, I'm running Ubuntu on the EEE-PC due to update problems. To get the advanced Xandros desktop working, I had to do an upgrade. Somehow in there I ended up with a circular dependency involving python, I think, which made it impossible to revert back or go forward. Installing EEEUbuntu via USB thumb drive was the easiest way to fix the issue and get a full desktop.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
posting as ac because it's off-topic, but they did ratify "ginormous".
You still didn't give any examples of devices that lack support.
So, yeah until you provide some evidence to support your post you are a shill.
But in any case, as if I'm worthy of Linux, the devices in question didn't ship with Linux on them but, being the idiot I am, decided to give Linux a try. I won't be making that mistake again anytime soon.
That's right, base your choice of OS on the politeness of every random joe in a forum. Logic rules!
I was looking forward of buying a notebook, so I googled around, and decided to buy a dell inspiron 1525. I was pleasently surprised that they even ship it with Ubuntu, though living in Europe it ran freedos by default(at least in my country).
What happend is that dell ships that model with two different wireless cards a linux friendly intel card and a usb broadcom(key word "usb" - it can't use the popular bcm drivers), nor can you google the notebook for troubleshooting, really - as everyone will praise it as the wireless works out of the box on linux..
So before buying a dell, make sure you double check the specs, or you might end up with something different.
I have not called them, but I did have an issue with a broken Windows Update resolved completely through email. For free.
Considering the final fix was to import a registry file, and the level of debugging required to figure this out, I was not getting a scripted response.
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
Actually we had an issue in work during an AD upgrade, phoned MS they charged us £200 before taking to us, couldnt resolve the bug, we found a fix and told them, they said "umm should be ok to do that" (ie they had no clue). And we never saw our £200 again.. Now THAT is what i call real support!
On another note I have a dell vostro 1500 and ubuntu support for it out of the box was crap, 7.04 installed but wpa2 wireless was very unstable & ubuntu would not boot without me loading piix, same with 7.10 (to be fair though 7.04 was out before the vostro was released & 7.10 was out 2/3 months after it was released). 8.04 on the other hand is flawless out of the box wireless just works,no mucking about, install is fine again no mucking about. So essentially 1 release (I wont count 7.10 as it was released too soon after the vostro to have been able to really tested against it) after the vostro was released by dell ubuntu supported it flawlessly out of the box.
That's right, base your choice of OS on the politeness of every random joe in a forum. Logic rules!
Why not? He based his post on mine and got modded up! Tell me about the logic again?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
He wasn't necessarily referring to you.
That's right. This isn't about you. At all.
What they don't tell you is that they photographed the notebook with this pencil!
Are you, by any chance, referring to problems with proprietary video drivers for older models? I find, with that exception, that linux generally better supports hardware as time goes on. I would be downright surprised to see a device that shipped with linux getting worse as time goes by(barring those situations where the vendor merely used linux as a substitute for some proprietary embedded system, and hacked the default config around quite seriously).
I'd be very interested to know what particular devices have given you this trouble.
The other 10" netbook (MSI Wind) is selling on Amazon for $569. It seems that netbooks with 10 inches of screen (measured diagonally btw) are settling into that price range.
I must say, however, that $300 for an 8.9" screen is a darn good deal for a powerful netbook from Dell. --Though for 10" screens, the Asus eee line still impresses me more than any of the others so far; they've got a year's worth of product development under their belts at this point where everybody else is still scrambling, and Asus seems to be the only manufacturer which isn't shipping units with "crystal-bright" screens, which I know some people prefer, but for me clinched the deal by virtue of its absence. --The other perk is the presence of a massive user support community. This is the first time, possibly in my life, when I've found myself in with the popular crowd. It feels kind of weird to have the 'it' item. I can't decide if I feel dirty or elated. It's rare when "Popular" also means "Damn Good".
The other elements which I'm impressed with on the 1000H are the default 6-cell battery and its nice long life, the responsive and properly sized keyboard with its sensible layout, the screen real-estate, great audio, quiet fan/HD, and excellent body design, (it's nice and rugged; doesn't feel cheaply made like some of the other netbooks I've handled). I was also pleasantly surprised with the hibernate feature in XP; until it came through the door, I was resigned to putting up with long start-up times, but with the hibernate feature it goes from cold to me typing at full speed in about 14 seconds, though I suspect that would be longer if I doubled up the memory. It currently has 1 gig, but I've not noticed any limiting issues with that at all. A gig is a lot; though it might become a bit annoying if I decide to do any heavy Photoshop work on the thing, although I can't realistically see that happening very often.
The one thing I do find is that the trackpad keys are a bit too stiff for my liking. --But at least they're in the right place, at the bottom of the trackpad. I don't know what several other designers were thinking when they put them to the sides. Weird. The only other thing I would caution people about is that the eee1000 is just this side of being too big and heavy. You need a bit of muscle to hold it in one hand while typing with the other; it's best on your lap or knee or some other surface. A Blackberry it is not, but it still slides very nicely into a backpack and it's easy enough to treat like a book around the house rather than a piece of fold-up furniture.
I've not tried out the 8.9" eee, and it does seem that the competitors have some nice netbooks out in that range, so I don't know if I'd go with Asus for one of those if I wanted the smaller screen. This new Dell machine, aside from the glossy screen, looks like a pretty decent choice if they can deliver on the projected price.
-FL
My problems are addressed in more detail here. And while both devices were not native Linux devices they did both run (mostly) fine in Unbuntu 6 but had problems after the upgrade to 8. One is a video driver issue or so it seems. I did one work around and it got the machine working but not at the native resolution of the monitor that it's on.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Your original post made it sound as if you were pretty anti-Linux in the first place, so any legitimate concern of yours was at least partly masked by a doubt as to whether you really wanted a helpful reply. I think that explains your parent's emotional response at the end.
But then you seem to use quite a bit of emotion yourself, with this "tizzy" stuff and the "you guys all turn your noses up" comment. Who is "you guys," anyway? The people who respond with fervor when you claim that the software that they use every day is inferior? Seriously, try some tact next time and maybe you won't get flamed.
In my experience, the big companies providing support often ends up being the ones that give me a headache. A few examples from real life:
1. We had a $300k predictive dialer from a (then) well known telephone equipment provider. We depreciate the investment over 5 years. After 3 years, the provide had been sold to a bigger company that stopped actively supporting the product. Suddenly, even the most obvious bugs (and there were many) in their system was really a feature upgrade that was only available for customers running their latest and greatest. We were left stranded with the choice of throwing another $2-300k dollars at the new company for their new "superior" dialer or support a proprietary solutions on our own. We opted for the second alternative and before 5 years had passed, the company was sold again and our version of the product dropped altogether.
2. We invested even more money in an Avaya switch. The local support in our little Nordic country was more or less nonexistent at the time. So we opted to buy support from another company in our group who had the expertise. After 2 years, Avaya did have support support but we couldn't buy it from them since parts of our PBX was already "out of sale" and would be "out of support" within 1 year. Instead, we were forced into a $200k upgrade.
3. We had roughly 200 Dell Optiplex SX280 in production, running XP. A lot of these machines have an inherit problem with their motherboard that causes them to overheat. Dell acknowledged the problem and extended the factory warranty to 5 years so that all machines had time to break while we could still get an free exchange motherboard. Only problem was that they had failed to mention that it wasn't really a 5-year warranty, they had limited it to a specific date less than 60 days into the future counting from the date when we first learned about the "5-years warranty".
4. We have rented an issue tracking system from a well known software developer. Since their system didn't really live up to what their salesman had promised us, they ended up doing a lot of custom work for us to fix a few of the problems. After 1 year, they released a new version that would have fixed a lof of the remaining problems we had. Needless to say, our customizations was not portable to their new version, so we ended up ditching their system to develop a derivate from a GPL'ed solution instead. Sure, we could have taken them to court, but in real life, we need to focus on delivering services to our customers.
In my experience (12 years in the business) enterprise support is about paying twice for everything and having someone to meet in court when sh**t hits the fan.
Since a few years back, my strategy is to hire skilled technicians and staying close to the main stream of open source software (=Ubuntu + Asterisk for this call center). From a 24*7 production perspective, that's the safest way.
well, i know it's not exactly the same case (apple never supported ubuntu... but ubuntu was supporting ppc): my shiny ppc powerbook still runs ubuntu but the nice community i experienced 3 years ago has suddenly vanished...
it's a pity
a.
I am not sure how this differs from the MSI Wind or Asus EEE.
When the rumours first surfaced (someone caught Michael Dell with one at a conference), there was talk of a touch screen. If that had been the case, then there's the big selling feature.
No mention in this sneak peak, however.
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post. Rather than answering any of those questions, you threw a temper tantrum and accused him of some unnamed meanness toward you (which I don't see no matter how many times I read that post). Here, for your convenience, I distill the above poster's questions, in case you'd like to take another crack at any of them.
Would you like to take another turn at any of those?
kindly yours-
p.d.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
But in the MS case you have to pay once they drop support. Upgrading Ubuntu to the next LTS release is free (and not particularly difficult either). Why would you not upgrade your Ubuntu install?
Not to bash of course, but with those specs they should think about using Xubuntu instead. I know, I know, Ubuntu will run acceptable on those specs, but it'd definitely be a nice option to barter polish for speed (as in snappy omgwtf-speed, compared to meh-speed). Nothing says pwnage as having your subnotebook boot up and respond faster than a Vista-powerhouse-pc.
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
But in the MS case you have to pay once they drop support.
Indeed though by then you are probablly going to be replacing the hardware anyway.
Upgrading Ubuntu to the next LTS release is free (and not particularly difficult either). Why would you not upgrade your Ubuntu install?
I certainly would upgrade it but I would also not want to tell a user to do it themselves unless I knew they had the competance to recover from a failed upgrade (either by fixing the system or by reinstalling).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Your original post made it sound as if you were pretty anti-Linux in the first place, so any legitimate concern of yours was at least partly masked by a doubt as to whether you really wanted a helpful reply. I think that explains your parent's emotional response at the end.
My saying that I don't plan on going 100% Linux is anti-Linux? Huh? Otherwise I really wish you would quote where I was anti-Linux. My point was more to the migration to various versions of Ubuntu. I thought I had made that pretty clear. And I only brought that up because I have seen working hardware under Ubuntu 6.0 go south after upgrading it to Ubuntu 8.0. I know that wasn't very clear but I never questioned Linux as a whole in the same breath.
But then you seem to use quite a bit of emotion yourself, with this "tizzy" stuff and the "you guys all turn your noses up" comment. Who is "you guys," anyway? The people who respond with fervor when you claim that the software that they use every day is inferior? Seriously, try some tact next time and maybe you won't get flamed.
Quote me where I claim that Linux is inferior. I said that community support was a weak for the problems I had with Linux. I seen plenty of people say the same about Windows community support and not get slapped down for it.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Interesting. Thanks.
I'm surprised to see a system with basic Wacom digitizer regressing with later linux versions. I wonder what the peculiarity in your case is. As for the video one, video is definitely the worst aspect of playing linux on the desktop. Older ATI is usually a fairly solid bet, so I'm surprised; but not too surprised.
Not much more I can say without the machines in front of me; but thanks for the more specific information.
With the Wacom thing it seems that I'm not alone. I found other people with the same machine who had the same problem but no real fixes. Being a "noob" to Linux it's hard for me to get a lot more in the way of specifics of what is and is not going on with the units.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post.
Oh, you mean relative like....
You a little deliberately short on specifics
Not everyone in the world has the weak consumer laws that you're obviously subject to...
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
Seriously, what does Microsoft offer in the way of support to a single home user that isn't available for a cheaper price for Ubuntu or another commercially supported distribution? This supposed support sounds like a fallacy to me, pretty much like the rest of this post. It's fine that you like Windows, but there's no need to make up FUD about Linux to justify your standpoint.
Windows seems like a perfectly fine solution for a certain class of user, and to them I say "To each their own, and mind your fucking bullshit when you talk about mine"
Is your version of relative is "If you can't say something good about Linux don't say anything at all?" Obviously the mods think so. I never said that Windows community support was better. If you think I did I ask you to quote me. I think people who read that read too much into what I was saying. I made no arguement either way but apparently steeviant likes to make it seem as if I did.
Would you like to take another turn at any of those?
Actually, I did go into more detail with a user who was decent enough to come off with a question instead of an attack at me for being a Windows user. Would it have been so hard for him to simply say "Can you tell me what exactly do you mean?" instead of being uppity about it? I think I posed a legitimate question. He nearly gave an answer but not quiet. What he did do is let me know that as a non-100% Linux user that I needed to shut up until everything worked right with Windows ("To each their own, and mind your fucking bullshit when you talk about mine").
Great way to come into the community. I feel real welcome.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Of course it will, but at least you can seek better paid support elsewhere (Canonical) or indeed the quite excellent ubuntuforums.org for free.
Good paid support from Canonical but help from people on the Ubuntu forums?
Yeah my ass you would. I personally think you'd get more help with Ubuntu from a brick wall or a dead animal then the forums.
It ain't c00L if it ain't about eeepc!
Just type eeepc in a footnote and the news gets billions of reads.
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
I'll give you a supporting example. Microsoft quicky stopped supporting their own Force Fedback Pro joystick after Windows 98 (no full drivers thereafter), .
Yeah, if only Ubuntu would commit itself to some kind of Long Term Support for their operating systems, or maybe a way to upgrade to new releases as they come out then that wouldn't be such a problem.
Oh well, we can only hope that some time the fat cats at Ubuntu Corporation will pay attention to something other than all the money they are making selling their broken, unsupported, un-upgradable operating system and start to really care about the users for a change.
Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues.
No mas land won't be until April 2010. The server support till April 2011 would work just as well. A better question would be to check out how well Dapper Drake questions get answered.
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time.
I say dive in the waters is fine. I am in a MS shop with Linux and Open Source slowly moving in. I have support contracts, MS partners, etc. YMMV but I can tell you my "free" support on Linux has been better than my "paid" support for MS products.
vi +
.
Missing from the summary is Gizmodo's report that the OS is XP or Ubuntu. It should be interesting to see which is the stronger seller.
There was a report in the news today that cell phone sales are down 13% overall
- but sales of the most expensive feature-rich phones are up.
This is typical in an economy under stress. The upper income buyer can afford another gadget.
Those with less to spend can't afford anything.
That strikes me as a bad omen for the low end of the netbook market.
one advantage of my ancient laptop is that it does not have wireless - i need an add on like a usb port
this is actually a feature as the malware or spyware can't do anything if the wireless point is unplugged
is it possible to physically break the wireless and go with a pluggable point ?
My luck with the forums has been pretty good. Perhaps you need to rephrase your help requests? Some of the one's I've seen there's no way that anyone could help. Others don't really have anything to do with Ubuntu. I'm not surprised when those don't get helpful answers.
OTOH, I'll admit that I usually search the forums for a solution before asking for help, and I usually find the answer already there. (Sometimes it takes a few iterations to get the search terms just right, but that's a lot faster then waiting for someone to reply.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening?
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post. Rather than answering any of those questions, you threw a temper tantrum and accused him of some unnamed meanness toward you (which I don't see no matter how many times I read that post).
No, he didn't (not polite).
Yes, he did (tantrum).
Care to borrow my glasses?
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening?
Bullshit. steeviant asked you a series of fairly polite questions (hey, it's all relative, this is Slashdot) pertaining to your post. Rather than answering any of those questions, you threw a temper tantrum and accused him of some unnamed meanness toward you (which I don't see no matter how many times I read that post).
Great-grandparent (or something or other like that) does not specifically state that Ubuntu has done this in the past. When I reread, i think the reference to Ubuntu was the equivalent of "Hypothetically, for any linux distribution, insert name here." Thus, I present to you a list of open source devices that shortly after release had vendor support dropped:
Sharp Zaurus (Sure a small community continued development for a few years, but it was very niche and very sparse).
Neuros 442 (Not linux per se, but marketed on the open source and community support aspects).
Greenphone
Oh yeah..the WorksForMe(tm) argument.
Anecdotal evidence is so much fun. I installed Ubuntu and my wifi didnt work. I guess ubuntu sucks?
Are you in the 0.153% of the market or 0.143%? Keep forgetting.., please remind me of your insignificance again.
It really should just have text on it, preferably the word "meta".
(yea I know that newer Linux uses the X "super" keysym for it, but it really should be "meta" anyway, that is a much better word).
I have one where a device's manufacturer created open source drivers for it that worked great with Linux at the time but now is very difficult to use: My Plextor Convertx. Granted that is not exactly what you asked for (since its drivers work with a Linux device, it is not a Linux device itself), but I wasted almost a week this year getting it to work with the newest Ubuntu with no success. The experience shook my faith in the whole "make open drivers for your device and Linux will support it forever" argument I have heard zealots shovel to hardware makers. And to think I bought it for Linux compatibility!
Open Source Sushi
All the OEM's know that the regular PC market is drying up, in 2 or 3 years there will only be replacement PC sales
[citation needed]. Please, no random blogs. They don't count as citations IMO.
Hopefully anything you cite will be more credible than Gartner, IDC, etc who say PC sales have strong growth. Could they be horribly wrong? OMG !!
The only thing that could slow them down is a full blown recession, which would impact UMPC sales too..
No one wants to be left out of the UMPC market. That is where all the growth is going to be.
All the growth? [citation needed]. Please, no random blogs. They don't count as citations IMO.
Dell has supported Linux for awhile, Ubuntu for a few years now (since 6.10 anyways). Dell support for their Linux devices is pretty solid in my experience. If you are not a technique and need more hands-on support, Dell offers some customized, personal tech support options as well.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I thought that the Sharp Zaurus would be one example, as I rember that software support was starting to drop off when I boxed my C700 up for storage... but no. Someone has ported Ubuntu 7.10 to it!
http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/static.php?page=ZaurusUbuntu
Beep beep.
Are they supporting machines that ship with Ubuntu with newer version of Ubuntu throughout their life cycle?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Well, not so long ago I too was Windows power user. Then I read some stuff on Linux file system, package managers etc. Now you can pry Ubuntu from my cold dead fingers.
I have an amd 64 3200 single core with 2gb ram and fast scsi disks, I was running xp 64 edition and just got sick of how sluggish the machine was at 1.5gb ram utiilization.
I was considering buying a new machine
just so that things would be more zippy, then I tested ubuntu on an old p4 and was really impressed, finally got it installed on my amd64 and hardly ever boot into windows.
I have mainly been a windows sys admin for the last ten years and have played with linux since the redhat 5.1 days, those days driver support was not was it is now, over the years I have deployed linux boxen as proxy server, web servers etc...
After running ubuntu as my main desktop for the last couple of days, I don't see myself moving back over to having a windows desktop again. I will probably only rdp to windows machines to admin etc.
It was funny that before I was considering getting a faster machine and now running the ubuntu desktop, I can run many applications at the same time consuming lots of ram and the machine feels very responsive. So it looks like my amd 64 will be in use for quite some time...
After having experienced vista for about 30 mins and then reformatting the disk, I made a clear choice to not continue using m$ products for my desktop os.
the most iritating aspect using windows machines apart from being sluggish, is that your work flow is continually interupted i.e. background applications generate a pop up, which are just irritating.
Ho, ho! And the horses are at the gate!
Levono is being a bit coy, it seems. (Just went through their S10 info).
You get half the memory (512Mb) and half the battery size (3 cell) of the eee1000, and there's apparently no option on their sales page to upgrade either of these on the main package. Going through their accessories page, you can separately order a gig of memory for $35 and they don't even offer a 6 cell battery yet for the S10. I would hope they make that option available soon for the main package, (the press releases say they do, so perhaps it's just a matter of waiting a few days for their supply chains to catch up.)
If they don't, however, their batteries seem to be all in the $130 - $170 range regardless of cell number. If they force people to buy a second battery just to get up to 6 cells, then that would be a bad blow.
I note that the screen is a spot bigger than the eee1000, and the keyboard is a spot smaller, being 85% of a full keyboard, where the eee1000 is 92%. Overall the chassis is almost half an inch smaller in width, ringing in at 9.8" to the eee1000's 10.25" Very nice, if you don't mind the keyboard being a touch smaller. The screen also appears to have a mat-finish; another good move on their part.
All in all, it seems like a nice little package; 512Mb is a workable size, though it might be a little tight for XP in some cases. With the features upgraded to the same level as the eee1000, it might not be quite so competitively priced as it first appears. For me, a 6 cell battery is an absolute must and I wouldn't even consider the S10 until it became available. But the S10 does come with an all-in-one card reader to the eee's SD memory slot, and you can get the S10 in Ruby Red, which I have to admit looks pretty sweet.
And they're off!
-FL
(K)ubuntu can only progress as fast as Debian unstable, and I wouldn't be surprised if testing is close on Ubuntu and unstable's heels.
I'm a windows power user... i'm also a linux power user, it's not exactly hard to learn how to use another OS, especially nowadays where everything you need to know is in forums posted all over the net.
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
Since the Inspiron910 comes with Ubuntu preinstalled, and since the "Windows" key is already referred to as the Super key in Ubuntu, having "Super" (or "Spr") printed on the Super key makes the most sense.
...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock smoking teabaggers!
Your old sig is a bit ironic.
The tough and stringy poor people may have been common in the middle ages, but frankly, there is an almost exact inverse proportion between obesity rates and income.
Rich people are tough and stringy. Poor people are squishy and round. :-)
Where the drivers part of the kernel? If not, the "make open drivers for your device and Linux will support it forever" argument does not apply.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Well, I'd check with Dell as I have no idea.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Well, not so long ago I too was Windows power user. Then I read some stuff on Linux file system, package managers etc. Now you can pry Ubuntu from my cold dead fingers.
The difference is that you were a "Windows" power users, and not a Windows "Power User". The former is a power users who happens to use Windows, the later is a Windows users who happens to use Windows.
http://www.mhall119.com
One word: Dependencies.
In a business environment, you are constantly building on previous work. If you have architected an entire SOA (or anything else) around a certain Linux distribution, and that distribution drops support three years later, that is three years worth of development you now have to go back and test against the "latest and greatest" kernel, etc. if you want to continue with out-of-house support. Upgrading and re-testing an entire ecosystem of interconnected systems every three years can be an unreasonable request (especially if the systems performed their day to day tasks with very little human assistance).
I mentioned tinker-toys once in a post - now I'm modded down for life.
no to mention that he was short on specifics. but i guess that's ok if you're a linux fanboy.
This is indeed great news. I think that this will be a good market for Canonical to branch out Ubuntu. I may have to buy one myself if the price tag sticks. And regarding the MS spokes person...Obviously the logic here must be that knowledge of operating systems, and the wish for more control over them is actually an inverse function to experience as opposed to proportional.
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening? Because it's been my experience that my hardware works better with each release, and I haven't seen forums bubbling over with ignored support issues with older hardware as you imply.
I personally am experiencing one. As of Hardy, XFCE's Terminal and System Monitor programs no longer display properly on laptops with Neomagick MagicGraph chips. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/194769
The bug was reported 6 months ago, and as of yet, no one officially part of (X)Ubuntu has made a comment. (Someone did post a patch for Terminal with a workaround.)
Why on earth do they put the touchpad BELOW the keyboard???? When I use a mouse, I usually extend the arm so that the mouse is further away from my body than the keyboard is. Yet all hardware manufacturers insist on putting the touch pad closer to the user. Not only does it not feel natural, but it leads to all kinds of accidental mouse actions while one is typing, as the natural resting position of the hands puts them on the touch pad. !Free the touchpad! It belongs ABOVE the keyboard, not below.