I think this is spot-on and extremely insightful. Except...
I'm talking about all of the people who work the dead-end minimum wage jobs, do drugs every night, just take webcam pictures of themselves, and are going nowhere in life. There is none of that on facebook.
WTF? I don't know what boring-ass school you went to, but that's about all there is on our Facebook.
Not that I have a problem with Arnieboy, or his work; power to him. But I didn't get into Linux to have some program "do it for me," sight unseen. If I wanted that, I've still got XP on my other partition..
I want to emphasize here that I have no issue with Automatix, per se. I don't like the idea of n00bs being dependent on it, though, and I really don't like how it seems to be the standard response to n00bs on the Ubuntu forums asking for install help. I mean, what happens when, six months down the road, somebody wants to install something that isn't on Arnieboy's list? They have no practical experience installing applications in Linux, and they're lost. Again.
To summarize: I don't want a goddamn fish. Teach me.
Agreed. This isn't the same old tired "digg had it last week" thing, either. Automatix has been around for months, long enough to be argued to death on the Ubuntu forums.
Nonsense. It's a common misconception that public companies are required to maximize share vaule. This is not the case. A public company is legally obligated only to abide by their prospectus and charter. Which Google does.
1. They can't ship it because they don't pay a patent fee. It's illegal. 2. See #1 3. I don't think it's stupid at all, but I just started using teh linux about seven months ago. My standards are low;) But really, hit a forum up, google for edit sources.list, man, do something. When I installed Ubuntu it took me less than fifteen minutes to learn how to do it and do it. Gotta be easier than installing another OS, for Gwar's sake.
I "actually work for a real company," (industrial-scale printing and archival services for construction/architectural documents, blueprints and manuals and whatnot) and I use OOo exclusively. Dig that? Documents are my job, they're all I do, and I do it with OOo. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
1. "Open Office doesn't ship with an email client...if you look at Office 2003 and use Outlook for your email, you can right click and set up a meeting; you right click and see if someone's on the phone or in a meeting; you can right click and see their presence information; you can right click and call a meeting of multiple people..."
Am I really the last person in the free world who uses an office suite to write letters and create spreadsheets?!
2. "One of the things we have done, for example, is that we have really expanded the tool tips where, if you hover over something, you'll get directions to how that feature is used. As well, if you hover over something, the entire text will change right in front of you so you'll see what happens immediately.
How innovative. (By "innovative," I mean "that really sounds like a pain in the ass.")
3. "...honestly the old paradigm of the tool bar user interface had outgrown its utility. Things had gotten too complicated there."
*sigh* See point 1. I can't think of too many other applications that are "too complicated" for a toolbar interface.
4. "There's a wonderful reason to move to the new file formats which is that it's open and it's XML..Other software products can use the XML information in the format that it was originated in."
The jury's still very much out on that one, buddy.
5. Also, we have automated conversion tools so that people can take existing documents and have them converted to the new file format relatively painlessly.
Again, how innovative. (This time, by "innovative," I mean...wait for it, you're gonna love it...Way to catch up with OOo, suckers! Yeah, I know that was a cheap shot, but I couldn't stop myself.)
6. The company has been told users that they are comfortable with Office and they don't want to see too much change. However, in order to differentiate itself from its open source rival, Microsoft has decided to take the bold step - some might say gamble - of telling its customers what's good for them.
Indeed, very bold. We've certainly never seen this attitude from Microsoft before.
I've been following the conversation at ubuntuforums.org with great interest, and, despite early pre/mis-conceptions as to what it's all about, I've got to say I like the idea. For myself, probably not, although if it comes with the same 15-day free run that Linspire users get, I may install it just to see if it lives up to the hype (and Kevin did hype it a lot). I'm fine with apt (and Synaptic, when I'm feeling particularly lazy), but this would be something I could easily reccommend to n00b friends. $20 a year is, I feel, a very reasonable price for the service.
I view this like I view Linspire's services in general. No one ends up there (or at least, no one should). But it's a bridge from MSFT-land for people who otherwise wouldn't come over at all, and I'm glad someone's out there doing it.
One objection that I heard a lot on the forum is "CNR's not open source!!" So fucking what, you goddamn zealot. Neither's the nvidia driver, and who here uses it? Thought so.
You're right, but that's not the point. Parent's point (I think) seems to be that you don't really know how much crap is tied into Firefox via Gecko in Ubuntu, and if you ignorantly try to install 1.5 over 1.0.7, you break your system pretty badly (yelp uses Gecko, for instance).
AFAIK, that's incorrect. As a lark, I installed a clean version of U-5.10 (sounds like a submarine, dunnit?), installed Automatix, proceeded to install everything on the list, then uninstalled it all (also via Automatix). To my knowledge, it broke nothing.
Walmart put Linux on their bottom-of-the-barrel crapboxes and sold them at a price that was not nearly "cheaper enough" (pardon my grammar) to compete with the Wintel boxen on the shelf next to them. Doesn't count.
I've had that a lot. I've fallen back to the two old standbys, which work well for me with my non-geek friends:
1. No virii/malware/bullshit. Ever. Good for life. 2. My computer's been running continuously for three months. Until I decide to get the new kernel or the power goes out, I can go on like this indefinitely.
Really? I run Ubuntu and have no trouble doing any of the things you mentioned. Out of the box? No, I'll give you that, I had to set it up myself. But here's the key: There is no box. You can't buy a preconfigured Ubuntu box at Best Buy. If the same was true of Windows, their situation would be no better.
Now, before someone jumps down my asshole and says "End users don't care!", I know that. I'm a realist, and I understand that that's a major hurdle. But it's the classic chicken and egg dilemna; we're not going to get on the shelves without market share, and we can't get market share until we get shelf space. If anyone's got a brilliant real-world hack for that, let's hear it.
That's the default because that's what Ubuntu's about, free software. The whole philosophy behind the distro is "free like freedom." There is nothing proprietary installed by default.
The mp3 codecs aren't hard to find or install if you're willing to commit fifteen minutes to searching the forums to find the right repository. If it's really that much of a hassle for you, use Mepis or something.
Yeah, I dealt with this too. For God's sake, don't try to uninstall 1.0.7, it breaks all kinds of shit. The Gnome GUI help, of all things, ties into Gecko. Just leave it the hell alone, install 1.5 into/home, and update your widgets.
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I think this is spot-on and extremely insightful. Except...
I'm talking about all of the people who work the dead-end minimum wage jobs, do drugs every night, just take webcam pictures of themselves, and are going nowhere in life. There is none of that on facebook.
WTF? I don't know what boring-ass school you went to, but that's about all there is on our Facebook.
Unheard of? How old are you?!
Not that I have a problem with Arnieboy, or his work; power to him. But I didn't get into Linux to have some program "do it for me," sight unseen. If I wanted that, I've still got XP on my other partition..
I want to emphasize here that I have no issue with Automatix, per se. I don't like the idea of n00bs being dependent on it, though, and I really don't like how it seems to be the standard response to n00bs on the Ubuntu forums asking for install help. I mean, what happens when, six months down the road, somebody wants to install something that isn't on Arnieboy's list? They have no practical experience installing applications in Linux, and they're lost. Again.
To summarize: I don't want a goddamn fish. Teach me.
5.10 comes with OOo 1.9.something, not the final 2.0 version.
Agreed. This isn't the same old tired "digg had it last week" thing, either. Automatix has been around for months, long enough to be argued to death on the Ubuntu forums.
Whatup, BL?
If people stop paying to make the movies then that type of movie will not get made in the future.
So wait a minute...are you saying that I download and distribute, say, 10,000 copies of Legally Blonde, they won't make any more of them? Deal!
Nonsense. It's a common misconception that public companies are required to maximize share vaule. This is not the case. A public company is legally obligated only to abide by their prospectus and charter. Which Google does.
Maybe if the Linux community started listening to what users are SAYING they want
I thought Linux community=users? I mean, who else could they be?
1. They can't ship it because they don't pay a patent fee. It's illegal. ;) But really, hit a forum up, google for edit sources.list, man, do something. When I installed Ubuntu it took me less than fifteen minutes to learn how to do it and do it. Gotta be easier than installing another OS, for Gwar's sake.
2. See #1
3. I don't think it's stupid at all, but I just started using teh linux about seven months ago. My standards are low
I "actually work for a real company," (industrial-scale printing and archival services for construction/architectural documents, blueprints and manuals and whatnot) and I use OOo exclusively. Dig that? Documents are my job, they're all I do, and I do it with OOo. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
from TFA:
1. "Open Office doesn't ship with an email client...if you look at Office 2003 and use Outlook for your email, you can right click and set up a meeting; you right click and see if someone's on the phone or in a meeting; you can right click and see their presence information; you can right click and call a meeting of multiple people..."
Am I really the last person in the free world who uses an office suite to write letters and create spreadsheets?!
2. "One of the things we have done, for example, is that we have really expanded the tool tips where, if you hover over something, you'll get directions to how that feature is used. As well, if you hover over something, the entire text will change right in front of you so you'll see what happens immediately.
How innovative. (By "innovative," I mean "that really sounds like a pain in the ass.")
3. "...honestly the old paradigm of the tool bar user interface had outgrown its utility. Things had gotten too complicated there."
*sigh* See point 1. I can't think of too many other applications that are "too complicated" for a toolbar interface.
4. "There's a wonderful reason to move to the new file formats which is that it's open and it's XML..Other software products can use the XML information in the format that it was originated in."
The jury's still very much out on that one, buddy.
5. Also, we have automated conversion tools so that people can take existing documents and have them converted to the new file format relatively painlessly.
Again, how innovative. (This time, by "innovative," I mean...wait for it, you're gonna love it...Way to catch up with OOo, suckers! Yeah, I know that was a cheap shot, but I couldn't stop myself.)
6. The company has been told users that they are comfortable with Office and they don't want to see too much change. However, in order to differentiate itself from its open source rival, Microsoft has decided to take the bold step - some might say gamble - of telling its customers what's good for them.
Indeed, very bold. We've certainly never seen this attitude from Microsoft before.
I've been following the conversation at ubuntuforums.org with great interest, and, despite early pre/mis-conceptions as to what it's all about, I've got to say I like the idea. For myself, probably not, although if it comes with the same 15-day free run that Linspire users get, I may install it just to see if it lives up to the hype (and Kevin did hype it a lot). I'm fine with apt (and Synaptic, when I'm feeling particularly lazy), but this would be something I could easily reccommend to n00b friends. $20 a year is, I feel, a very reasonable price for the service.
I view this like I view Linspire's services in general. No one ends up there (or at least, no one should). But it's a bridge from MSFT-land for people who otherwise wouldn't come over at all, and I'm glad someone's out there doing it.
One objection that I heard a lot on the forum is "CNR's not open source!!" So fucking what, you goddamn zealot. Neither's the nvidia driver, and who here uses it? Thought so.
You're right, but that's not the point. Parent's point (I think) seems to be that you don't really know how much crap is tied into Firefox via Gecko in Ubuntu, and if you ignorantly try to install 1.5 over 1.0.7, you break your system pretty badly (yelp uses Gecko, for instance).
AFAIK, that's incorrect. As a lark, I installed a clean version of U-5.10 (sounds like a submarine, dunnit?), installed Automatix, proceeded to install everything on the list, then uninstalled it all (also via Automatix). To my knowledge, it broke nothing.
Walmart put Linux on their bottom-of-the-barrel crapboxes and sold them at a price that was not nearly "cheaper enough" (pardon my grammar) to compete with the Wintel boxen on the shelf next to them. Doesn't count.
And Linspire doesn't count for anything.
I've had that a lot. I've fallen back to the two old standbys, which work well for me with my non-geek friends:
1. No virii/malware/bullshit. Ever. Good for life.
2. My computer's been running continuously for three months. Until I decide to get the new kernel or the power goes out, I can go on like this indefinitely.
Mod parent up.
Really? I run Ubuntu and have no trouble doing any of the things you mentioned. Out of the box? No, I'll give you that, I had to set it up myself. But here's the key: There is no box. You can't buy a preconfigured Ubuntu box at Best Buy. If the same was true of Windows, their situation would be no better.
Now, before someone jumps down my asshole and says "End users don't care!", I know that. I'm a realist, and I understand that that's a major hurdle. But it's the classic chicken and egg dilemna; we're not going to get on the shelves without market share, and we can't get market share until we get shelf space. If anyone's got a brilliant real-world hack for that, let's hear it.
"Free" is not a killer feature when the alternative costs $200.
Maybe not for you. I work.
That's the default because that's what Ubuntu's about, free software. The whole philosophy behind the distro is "free like freedom." There is nothing proprietary installed by default.
The mp3 codecs aren't hard to find or install if you're willing to commit fifteen minutes to searching the forums to find the right repository. If it's really that much of a hassle for you, use Mepis or something.
Yeah, I dealt with this too. For God's sake, don't try to uninstall 1.0.7, it breaks all kinds of shit. The Gnome GUI help, of all things, ties into Gecko. Just leave it the hell alone, install 1.5 into /home, and update your widgets.
Point taken.
Wrong. Dead wrong. Godwin's Law does not apply to a factual reference.
He belongs in this rouge's gallery.
You want Steve Jobs in the makeup aisle? I don't get it.
Palestine just elected Hamas to power.
America just re-elected the Cheney-Bush oil and drug cabal. Where are you going with this?