Obviously I don't think supporting linux is a waste of time, but obviously the desktop software companies do.
Fact is linux is still ignored by all the big dekstop developers. Sure we get the odd game once in a blue moon but overall commercial companies have passed on linux. That doesn't mean I don't think Redhat 8 with OpenOffice kicks ass, but it doesn't change the fact we are still being ignored.
Maybe, but the fact remains that hasn't worked with Adobe or Intuit or any of the other desktop software publishers so I don't know how "obvious" it really was.
Feel free to chalk this up as a "BSD is dead post", but considering how few people use linux as a desktop, there must be 10 times less BSD desktop users. Really I'm not trying to troll, but there are just not nearly as many bsd desktop users as there are linux ones.
That said I'm surprised Opera would port for that small a user base, especially considering its a payware browser. I guess the same could have been said for Beos which never had a large user base.
Anyway good for Opera. Its too bad the other 99.999% of Desktop ISV's out there ignore any linux or nix, that isn't OSX. I keep waiting money in hand, but year after year they never come, Sigh.
Time to dig in and stand against companies who are treating the spirit of Linux like an afterthought.
There is plently of BSD code out their so I wish these companies would just stick to that instead of using mostly GPL code and then throwing in their "special sauce" thus polluting the distro.
The thing is that Suse, Xandros et al don't get is fighting MS with proprietary code is a loser. I mean if one thing has been proven its that no company's proprietary code can stand up to MS. Its too easy for MS to crush them.
Open Source is Kryptonite to Microsoft. Its the ONE and ONLY thing they can't destroy by regular means. They can't buy it out, and they can't embrace and extend it. That is my point, and that is the only way to win against them. Tacking some code on your distro which allows people to run MS apps just plays into their hands. It certainly doesn't lead to freedom from MS, it just reenforces their monopoly on another platform. When will companies learn this?
Just keep piling on that proprietary code into the core of your distro. We all know thats the key to making the linux desktop successful. Just keep adding more and more proprietary code until you've created another windows.
Hell the GPL just exists so that companies can pay lip service anyway. Right? I mean that's the trend now. Make your distro mostly GPL and then tack on some proprietary stuff?
Everyones doing it, so it MUST be the right thing to do.
I can't wait until every linux distro is in some small way proprietary! Won't that be great! After all it IS how linux made its name.
Again for the billionth time, ease of use and "dumbing down" are not the same thing. Smart choices eliminate that. If fact it takes one hell of a smart person to design a install that is easy to use and yet no matter what give the user a perfectly functioning system.
Like I have posted before, the perfect product is as easy to use as turning on a lightswitch. The difference between being an expert and newbie is eliminated and the product "just works".
People need to stop spreading this myth that ease of use is for dummies. Ease of use is the ultimate goal, Period!
I think he feels that way as well. Its just that he has learned that the corporate world likes release dates and the one he "gave" is in all likelyhood a resonable estimate. I see nothing in the GNU/Linux philosophy that states that you can't try to set a schedule and stick to it. Just because Redhat says "when its done" doesn't mean there isn't a giant whiteboard at their headquarters saying a certain date is "D-day".
Also this isn't some sort of sign of selling out, but I do think if anyone is to guesstimate when a release is likely, they talked to the right person. He is after all the final authority when it comes to releasing kernels.
"gone are the days when overclocking was actually an economically viable option to get more performance out of your system for what you pay. these days, overclocking is almost no different from case modding, in that its just for posers to make themselves feel better and have something to show-off."
Are you kidding me? Ocing is for posers? What planet are you from? First of all Case modding has NOTHING to do with Ocing. Have a look at the P4 1.6 and P4 1.8 which ARE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE options of getting huge performance increases for free. Why wouldn't you Overclock those cpus?
The same goes for the XP 1600 and the Rev B Thoroughbreds.
"see the pointlessness" Umm, No. Who are you to say that someone getting the most performance possible out of something they bought are posers or showoffs? So people who work on their cars are posers? How about people who tweak their kernel to make it go faster? How about anyone who has ever attempted to improve the performance of anything they have ever bought? Oh I guess your the arbitor what is appropriate to improve and what is "Cool".
Lastly, why is someone who mods their case a poser as well? What is personal expression is verboten? And people should be "happy with what they got". You don't like bright colors?
Interesting philosophy you have.
You may be right that its not "news-worthy" anymore, but your assumptions about people who improve the speed of thier cpu or work on their case are flat out wrong and biased.
I don't think it will be years. I think its safe to say Redhat 8 set a new standard in the "Out of Box experience" category. I think its also safe to say no distro will ship with shitty fonts in their next release now. I think that is something to celebrate and show off don't you? I know everyone I've shown OpenOffice to has been impressed with the fonts.
Regarding the arguing, well some things will never change. I sometimes get fed up with it as well, and I'm sure some people get fed up with me, but you gotta admit this would be one boring website without it.
Fonts ARE a big deal. Getting them right is a hell of a lot more important than some grep switch. Futhermore one has nothing to do with another. Why are even comparing the two?
Interesting question, but I'd rather see them do something about Yast. That one piece of software spoils the distro for me. I mean most of the other distros GPL their tools, why can't Suse?
Because of Yast I don't support Suse and never will.
I know I be modded as Troll for this, but I know many other people feel the same way I do. I mean for a company that claims to be so into opensource why have this "gotcha" built into their distro? Could you imagine if Redhat had done the same thing with RPM? Or Debian had did this with Apt?
Suse did invent the tool so they do get to pick the license, but what would happen if the 99% of software written by others which they are repackaging all did the same thing?
The thing that cable providers as well as any ISP is trying to do, or more correctly HAS done, is turned the internet into a "consumer" experience. By that I mean the internet is heading to more of a cable tv model. That model means crappy service and less innovation.
The true potential of the internet will never blossom if bandwidth continues to be so expensive and hard to come by. Even with cable providers, God forbid you want upload something regardless of what it is. Your ability to produce or upload content threatens any future revenue stream they have. I'm not saying you should be able to run a million hit a day website for $50 from home, but the constant pressure and threats to reduce bandwidth to consumers has a chilling effect on their ability to produce and distribute content which is not commercial or self funding. There are so many things besides P2P copyrighted music sharing that could occur, but won't because your expected to poney up the big bucks for hosting.
Ask yourself, why would any company invest in a product that requires lots of upstream capacity on the consumers part? They won't and that's the problem. Beyond webcams or some lame VOIP attempts, what innovation has been happening in the consumer broadband space in the past several years? None. Whose to blame? You guessed it.
The Non "big business/commercial" side of the internet is stagnating and going downhill. Currently P2P is setup for MP3 and file trading, does anyone else see why this is only a fraction of what could be possible?
Very true, but X/fb does a good job at supporting almost any card out there. Text mode is still needed for sure and should never go away, but GUI install's should be on by default with text as the alternative option. If you make it harder to access or use the GUI install option, the users wont' come.
"Worse, it requires a graphical display, so you then enter the fb/X11 compatability issues. "
Somehow I think your overstating the potential problems as that is just not an issue for the vast majority of installs. Hell if MS can do 100% of installs with a GUI why can't Linux?
No offense, but that is the attitude that has kept Debian is in the dark ages. Why shouldn't the 99% of the world who isn't an expert at the CLI not have easy access to Debian?
I said it before that I'm a Redhat fan and while they are 100% true to the community, there is something to be said for having a noncommercial distro around. Also the better Debian is the less likely you are to have companies like Xandros , Lindows, or United Linux who are trying to hijack linux and make is 99% free 1% proprietary. Why would anyone use them if Debian is just as easy to use?
We have a Republican in Office. As far as GW is concerned the right of Big Business to share and abuse your medical, financial, and personal information is not to be infringed on.
I forgot to mention, this is on a fast computer XP1900 and 512MB DDR with a 100Mb full duplex connection. Other file managers while lacking some of the features of Naut, just don't have this problem. I just don't see why this hasn't been fixed yet? Don't any of the developers browse remote directories which have lots of files in them? Anyone else notice this? Bueller?
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Obviously I don't think supporting linux is a waste of time, but obviously the desktop software companies do.
Fact is linux is still ignored by all the big dekstop developers. Sure we get the odd game once in a blue moon but overall commercial companies have passed on linux. That doesn't mean I don't think Redhat 8 with OpenOffice kicks ass, but it doesn't change the fact we are still being ignored.
I'm not the one who needs convincing.
figure it out smart guy.
Maybe, but the fact remains that hasn't worked with Adobe or Intuit or any of the other desktop software publishers so I don't know how "obvious" it really was.
"I'm glad developers don't always pay attention to things like that"
Me too, Like I said its cool that they did.
"So by your logic, supporting Linux or Mac OSX is a waste of time."
Exactly. That's why linux gets no desktop support and Mac gets significantly less than windows does.
Feel free to chalk this up as a "BSD is dead post", but considering how few people use linux as a desktop, there must be 10 times less BSD desktop users. Really I'm not trying to troll, but there are just not nearly as many bsd desktop users as there are linux ones.
That said I'm surprised Opera would port for that small a user base, especially considering its a payware browser. I guess the same could have been said for Beos which never had a large user base.
Anyway good for Opera. Its too bad the other 99.999% of Desktop ISV's out there ignore any linux or nix, that isn't OSX. I keep waiting money in hand, but year after year they never come, Sigh.
"Well the thing about Epson allowing downloads again has already been reported"
I never heard.
I do have to say they make some great scanners. I love my 640U. Its quick and still makes great quality scans compared to anything out there.
Time to dig in and stand against companies who are treating the spirit of Linux like an afterthought.
There is plently of BSD code out their so I wish these companies would just stick to that instead of using mostly GPL code and then throwing in their "special sauce" thus polluting the distro.
The thing is that Suse, Xandros et al don't get is fighting MS with proprietary code is a loser. I mean if one thing has been proven its that no company's proprietary code can stand up to MS. Its too easy for MS to crush them.
Open Source is Kryptonite to Microsoft. Its the ONE and ONLY thing they can't destroy by regular means. They can't buy it out, and they can't embrace and extend it. That is my point, and that is the only way to win against them. Tacking some code on your distro which allows people to run MS apps just plays into their hands. It certainly doesn't lead to freedom from MS, it just reenforces their monopoly on another platform. When will companies learn this?
"what the fuck did you think StarOffice 5.2 , or IBM's ViaVoice, or Sun's Java tools were fucking Free Software"
Umm no I didn't. Nor did I support it. So what's your freaking point?
"If you don't like what SuSE's doing, then don't buy SuSE"
No arguing there.
Just keep piling on that proprietary code into the core of your distro. We all know thats the key to making the linux desktop successful. Just keep adding more and more proprietary code until you've created another windows.
Hell the GPL just exists so that companies can pay lip service anyway. Right? I mean that's the trend now. Make your distro mostly GPL and then tack on some proprietary stuff?
Everyones doing it, so it MUST be the right thing to do.
I can't wait until every linux distro is in some small way proprietary! Won't that be great! After all it IS how linux made its name.
A Unix which doesn't suppport SCSI cdroms?
Truly bizarre.
You wouldn't. When I asked this question before the answer I got was this is just Apple "Giving back" what they could.
I guess it's better than nothing, but I'd prefer they give back some of the interesting stuff, but that's never gonna happen.
Again for the billionth time, ease of use and "dumbing down" are not the same thing. Smart choices eliminate that. If fact it takes one hell of a smart person to design a install that is easy to use and yet no matter what give the user a perfectly functioning system.
Like I have posted before, the perfect product is as easy to use as turning on a lightswitch. The difference between being an expert and newbie is eliminated and the product "just works".
People need to stop spreading this myth that ease of use is for dummies. Ease of use is the ultimate goal, Period!
I think he feels that way as well. Its just that he has learned that the corporate world likes release dates and the one he "gave" is in all likelyhood a resonable estimate. I see nothing in the GNU/Linux philosophy that states that you can't try to set a schedule and stick to it. Just because Redhat says "when its done" doesn't mean there isn't a giant whiteboard at their headquarters saying a certain date is "D-day".
Also this isn't some sort of sign of selling out, but I do think if anyone is to guesstimate when a release is likely, they talked to the right person. He is after all the final authority when it comes to releasing kernels.
"gone are the days when overclocking was actually an economically viable option to get more performance out of your system for what you pay. these days, overclocking is almost no different from case modding, in that its just for posers to make themselves feel better and have something to show-off."
Are you kidding me? Ocing is for posers? What planet are you from? First of all Case modding has NOTHING to do with Ocing. Have a look at the P4 1.6 and P4 1.8 which ARE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE options of getting huge performance increases for free. Why wouldn't you Overclock those cpus?
The same goes for the XP 1600 and the Rev B Thoroughbreds.
"see the pointlessness"
Umm, No. Who are you to say that someone getting the most performance possible out of something they bought are posers or showoffs? So people who work on their cars are posers? How about people who tweak their kernel to make it go faster? How about anyone who has ever attempted to improve the performance of anything they have ever bought? Oh I guess your the arbitor what is appropriate to improve and what is "Cool".
Lastly, why is someone who mods their case a poser as well? What is personal expression is verboten? And people should be "happy with what they got". You don't like bright colors?
Interesting philosophy you have.
You may be right that its not "news-worthy" anymore, but your assumptions about people who improve the speed of thier cpu or work on their case are flat out wrong and biased.
I don't think it will be years. I think its safe to say Redhat 8 set a new standard in the "Out of Box experience" category. I think its also safe to say no distro will ship with shitty fonts in their next release now. I think that is something to celebrate and show off don't you? I know everyone I've shown OpenOffice to has been impressed with the fonts.
Regarding the arguing, well some things will never change. I sometimes get fed up with it as well, and I'm sure some people get fed up with me, but you gotta admit this would be one boring website without it.
Huh? Since when does CLI=Linux?
Fonts ARE a big deal. Getting them right is a hell of a lot more important than some grep switch. Futhermore one has nothing to do with another. Why are even comparing the two?
Why would Redhat stop distributing xterm?
What are your talking about?
Why was this modded up?
Huh?
Interesting question, but I'd rather see them do something about Yast. That one piece of software spoils the distro for me. I mean most of the other distros GPL their tools, why can't Suse?
Because of Yast I don't support Suse and never will.
I know I be modded as Troll for this, but I know many other people feel the same way I do. I mean for a company that claims to be so into opensource why have this "gotcha" built into their distro? Could you imagine if Redhat had done the same thing with RPM? Or Debian had did this with Apt?
Suse did invent the tool so they do get to pick the license, but what would happen if the 99% of software written by others which they are repackaging all did the same thing?
The thing that cable providers as well as any ISP is trying to do, or more correctly HAS done, is turned the internet into a "consumer" experience. By that I mean the internet is heading to more of a cable tv model. That model means crappy service and less innovation.
The true potential of the internet will never blossom if bandwidth continues to be so expensive and hard to come by. Even with cable providers, God forbid you want upload something regardless of what it is. Your ability to produce or upload content threatens any future revenue stream they have. I'm not saying you should be able to run a million hit a day website for $50 from home, but the constant pressure and threats to reduce bandwidth to consumers has a chilling effect on their ability to produce and distribute content which is not commercial or self funding. There are so many things besides P2P copyrighted music sharing that could occur, but won't because your expected to poney up the big bucks for hosting.
Ask yourself, why would any company invest in a product that requires lots of upstream capacity on the consumers part? They won't and that's the problem. Beyond webcams or some lame VOIP attempts, what innovation has been happening in the consumer broadband space in the past several years? None. Whose to blame? You guessed it.
The Non "big business/commercial" side of the internet is stagnating and going downhill. Currently P2P is setup for MP3 and file trading, does anyone else see why this is only a fraction of what could be possible?
Very true, but X/fb does a good job at supporting almost any card out there. Text mode is still needed for sure and should never go away, but GUI install's should be on by default with text as the alternative option. If you make it harder to access or use the GUI install option, the users wont' come.
"Worse, it requires a graphical display, so you then enter the fb/X11 compatability issues. "
Somehow I think your overstating the potential problems as that is just not an issue for the vast majority of installs. Hell if MS can do 100% of installs with a GUI why can't Linux?
No offense, but that is the attitude that has kept Debian is in the dark ages. Why shouldn't the 99% of the world who isn't an expert at the CLI not have easy access to Debian?
I said it before that I'm a Redhat fan and while they are 100% true to the community, there is something to be said for having a noncommercial distro around. Also the better Debian is the less likely you are to have companies like Xandros , Lindows, or United Linux who are trying to hijack linux and make is 99% free 1% proprietary. Why would anyone use them if Debian is just as easy to use?
Ease of use is a good thing.
Again, how is something that is the absolute truth a Troll? Do I need to provide link after link showing Republicans doing just that?
We have a Republican in Office. As far as GW is concerned the right of Big Business to share and abuse your medical, financial, and personal information is not to be infringed on.
I have this is 2.0.6.
I forgot to mention, this is on a fast computer XP1900 and 512MB DDR with a 100Mb full duplex connection. Other file managers while lacking some of the features of Naut, just don't have this problem. I just don't see why this hasn't been fixed yet? Don't any of the developers browse remote directories which have lots of files in them?
Anyone else notice this? Bueller?