Bah! MS did not standardise computing with DOS. IBM standardised computing with their open PC architecture, and MS-DOS just happened to be the OS chosen for it. I refer you to this comment, from a similar debate, quoting Andrew S. Tanenbaum's book "Modern Operating Systems". Of course, as Jack Sams pointed out to Robert Cringely, Billy G had a consulting role in some of the design areas, but as he also points out, the decision to have the architecture open was there from the start on IBM's part, with nothing to do with Gates.
Just speaking for myself here, but...
What the above post, and quite a few others, is doing is looking at the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube from a PCish perspective, comparing the actual hardware. For console gamers, the hardware is mostly a secondary concern; from a hardware perspective, most games will run as quickly/smoothly/nicely on any of the three consoles, because the specs have been taken into account in the games development. The main point for console gamers is what games are available, and what games are being developed for that console. BTW, can anyone tell me if the Xbox can play DVDs?
It's not just down to killer games....it's also down to the promise of killer games. Which the PS/2 had. Plus, it already had a shedload of killer games, as the PS/2 is backwards compatible with the PSX/PSOne.
Hmmmmm...... I agree, up to a point. Yes, a nicely integrated Linux with a standard GUI system, *would* help a lot to promote Linux on the desktop. AFAIR, both KDE and GNOME have options to make apps (either apps targeted at the other desktop environment, or completely "neutral" apps) adopt the same theme or colour scheme. I'm not 100% sure how successful this is, though....:)
Anyway, instead of making a distro that'll do all this when installed, both desktop environments should try to develop some sort of standard config. If we wish to get Linux on Joe User's desktop, then it won't be through him installing it himself, but through him buying it preinstalled (possibly because it's cheaper than buying a machine with XP or whatever preinstalled:). This "standard config" should hide most of the more technical options, and just give the user the "fluffy" stuff, like applying themes, setting desktop wallpaper, creating shortcuts, etc.
Please note that I'm not suggesting that KDE and GNOME both converge to look exactly the same. Each distro chooses its own prefered desktop environment, and when OEMs start really selling Linux boxes (hopefully...), they will no doubt make their own choice. The main thing is that, if a business purchases X amount of, say, Dell machines with Linux preinstalled, all the desktops should look similar, and work similarly.
Mod parent up, please!
I also think Star/Open Office, Konqueror, Galeon, Mozilla, grip, KDE, and GNOME (among others) to be easy to use.... But maybe that's just me.
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Microsoft had very little to do with the proliferation of the PC, except to provide the OS for it. The PC was popular because it was built of cheap, standard components, and the internals were well documented - which was the objective in the first place. "Around 1980, IBM...decided that personal computers were an area it should be in...It told one of its managers, Philip Estridge, to go to Boca Raton, Florida...and not to come back until he had a personal computer. Estridge soon decided that the only way he could produce a personal computer quickly was to use standard, off-the-shelf components...Probably the biggest thing IBM did was to make the PC an open system. The complete design, right down to the ROM listings and electrical schematic diagrams, was described in great detail in a book available from all PC dealers. This meant that third party hardware and software vendors could make new hardware and software products to add onto the PC, which thousands of them did"
From "Modern Operating systems" by Andrew S. Tanenbaum.
Yep, I was going to make that point too. Linux was originally meant to be a Minix/Unix workalike for Linux to use on his PC, because Minix didn't have the functionality, and he couldn't afford a proper Unix. Just as well x86 Solaris binaries weren't on free download back then, really.....
I know this is a bit off-topic....but what the heck.
Yeah, UltraEdit rocks!
First found out about it about a year and a half ago, on a Java night course, it was what tour tutor recommended. Now I use it for everything - HTML, Perl, Java, ASP/JSP....and so does all my team! Our Java people use something called PowerBuilder (haven't looked at myself), and I use Forte myself if I need to design a GUI - I just place all the buttons and bits and bobs in the IDE, save, then re-open in UltraEdit to write the bits that do the work...and I use System.out.println's for debugging.
So, there you go.
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I've used CDE a bit, and it looks fine, but I would prefer GNOME. I'd prefer KDE more:), but surely the point for most of us here should be that GNOME's use by Sun and HP is a big vote of confidence for open-source software?
Just my two cents....
"As long as the spirit of innovation is preserved and destructive viruses are recognized as industrial terrorism, Microsoft will continue to provide revolutionary ideas."
The only way MS' "ideas" could be described as revolutionary is if they actually provoked a revolution...mind you, how long have MS actually "preserved the spirit of innovation"? Billy G probably has it locked up in a kennel somewhere...
I'm not 100% sure on this, but isn't Mozilla the old Netscape engine, and Gecko the new one? Or what's the connection between the two? Does Mozilla (the browser, that is) use Gecko?
Have to agree here....KDE is my favourite, too, It's a lot more intuitive than GNOME. And Konqueror is amazing....when I used to have my Linux box (Mandrake 7.1) hooked up to the net, I tried all the browsers that came with it (Galeon, Konqueror, Mozilla, Netscape....um, and a few more, I think...), and Konqueror was the fastest of the lot, by quite a margin. Haven't tried Opera on Linux, though, and that's my browser of choice on Win32...
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Re:Defeats the purpose?
on
New Perl GUI
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Mine was actually a front-end for a number of file-parsing scripts I'd previously written....
And the file-selection dialog was horrendous!
Aw, man.....that's one of my favourite Simpsons scenes....classic Homer, and it just had such pathos in it as well!
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Re:Who's made the model work?
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Mundie Responds
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· Score: 1
"The business model for commercial software...has boosted productivity and efficiency in almost every sector of the economy, as businesses and individuals have enjoyed the wealth of tools, information and other activities made possible in the PC era."
This is simply not true. It's not the business model that has boosted productivity and so forth, but the software. If OS software had gotten in there at the birth of the PC, instead of Bill and his borrowed Quick 'n' Dirty OS, the same would still apply; I have no doubt that OS software could have "boosted productivity and efficiency in almost every sector of the economy", if it had the chance.
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Slashdot Mirror
Of course, as Jack Sams pointed out to Robert Cringely, Billy G had a consulting role in some of the design areas, but as he also points out, the decision to have the architecture open was there from the start on IBM's part, with nothing to do with Gates.
nb
What the above post, and quite a few others, is doing is looking at the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube from a PCish perspective, comparing the actual hardware. For console gamers, the hardware is mostly a secondary concern; from a hardware perspective, most games will run as quickly/smoothly/nicely on any of the three consoles, because the specs have been taken into account in the games development.
The main point for console gamers is what games are available, and what games are being developed for that console.
BTW, can anyone tell me if the Xbox can play DVDs?
nb
nb
I agree, up to a point.
Yes, a nicely integrated Linux with a standard GUI system, *would* help a lot to promote Linux on the desktop. AFAIR, both KDE and GNOME have options to make apps (either apps targeted at the other desktop environment, or completely "neutral" apps) adopt the same theme or colour scheme. I'm not 100% sure how successful this is, though....:)
Anyway, instead of making a distro that'll do all this when installed, both desktop environments should try to develop some sort of standard config. If we wish to get Linux on Joe User's desktop, then it won't be through him installing it himself, but through him buying it preinstalled (possibly because it's cheaper than buying a machine with XP or whatever preinstalled
Please note that I'm not suggesting that KDE and GNOME both converge to look exactly the same. Each distro chooses its own prefered desktop environment, and when OEMs start really selling Linux boxes (hopefully...), they will no doubt make their own choice. The main thing is that, if a business purchases X amount of, say, Dell machines with Linux preinstalled, all the desktops should look similar, and work similarly.
Just my two cents, anyway.
nb
I also think Star/Open Office, Konqueror, Galeon, Mozilla, grip, KDE, and GNOME (among others) to be easy to use....
But maybe that's just me.
nb
"Around 1980, IBM...decided that personal computers were an area it should be in...It told one of its managers, Philip Estridge, to go to Boca Raton, Florida...and not to come back until he had a personal computer.
Estridge soon decided that the only way he could produce a personal computer quickly was to use standard, off-the-shelf components...Probably the biggest thing IBM did was to make the PC an open system. The complete design, right down to the ROM listings and electrical schematic diagrams, was described in great detail in a book available from all PC dealers. This meant that third party hardware and software vendors could make new hardware and software products to add onto the PC, which thousands of them did"
From "Modern Operating systems" by Andrew S. Tanenbaum.
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Um....how can the GPL have been around "way before Open Source" when having open source is one of the main stipulations of the GPL?
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I know this is a bit off-topic....but what the heck.
nb
Yeah, UltraEdit rocks! First found out about it about a year and a half ago, on a Java night course, it was what tour tutor recommended. Now I use it for everything - HTML, Perl, Java, ASP/JSP....and so does all my team! Our Java people use something called PowerBuilder (haven't looked at myself), and I use Forte myself if I need to design a GUI - I just place all the buttons and bits and bobs in the IDE, save, then re-open in UltraEdit to write the bits that do the work...and I use System.out.println's for debugging. So, there you go. nb
I've used CDE a bit, and it looks fine, but I would prefer GNOME. I'd prefer KDE more :), but surely the point for most of us here should be that GNOME's use by Sun and HP is a big vote of confidence for open-source software?
Just my two cents....
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The only way MS' "ideas" could be described as revolutionary is if they actually provoked a revolution...mind you, how long have MS actually "preserved the spirit of innovation"?
Billy G probably has it locked up in a kennel somewhere...
nb
I'm not 100% sure on this, but isn't Mozilla the old Netscape engine, and Gecko the new one?
Or what's the connection between the two? Does Mozilla (the browser, that is) use Gecko?
nb
Well, it's working on Opera....:)
- And
- here's a report on single buckyball transistors.
Enjoy!Thank you, you explained it much better than I did!
The only reason I majored in C.S. rather than chemistry was because C.S. labs smelled marginally better...:)
Yes, but -255C is lower than 200C! Besides, I hardly think -200C would count as room temperature.....
Just tried to read the MS essay referenced in the post....but the site seems to be down, for some strange reason....:)
Have to agree here....KDE is my favourite, too, It's a lot more intuitive than GNOME. And Konqueror is amazing....when I used to have my Linux box (Mandrake 7.1) hooked up to the net, I tried all the browsers that came with it (Galeon, Konqueror, Mozilla, Netscape....um, and a few more, I think...), and Konqueror was the fastest of the lot, by quite a margin. Haven't tried Opera on Linux, though, and that's my browser of choice on Win32...
nb
Mine was actually a front-end for a number of file-parsing scripts I'd previously written....
And the file-selection dialog was horrendous!
:)
nb
Aw, man.....that's one of my favourite Simpsons scenes....classic Homer, and it just had such pathos in it as well! nb
"The business model for commercial software...has boosted productivity and efficiency in almost every sector of the economy, as businesses and individuals have enjoyed the wealth of tools, information and other activities made possible in the PC era." This is simply not true. It's not the business model that has boosted productivity and so forth, but the software. If OS software had gotten in there at the birth of the PC, instead of Bill and his borrowed Quick 'n' Dirty OS, the same would still apply; I have no doubt that OS software could have "boosted productivity and efficiency in almost every sector of the economy", if it had the chance. nb