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Carbon Magnets At Room Temperature
Bolie writes: "Trying to make high temperature super conductors yielded an unexpected result. The pure carbon bucky ball material was put under pressure to make sheets. That worked. Picture microscopic bubble pack. But the result was a sheet that was magnetic at room temperature. It has not escaped the attention of the discoverer, Tatiana Makarova, that this might be useful for a non-metallic computer memory. The material is also lighter than metals, flexible and transparent. Lasers anyone?"
First off, I find it hilarious what we physicists end up naming different molecules and ensemble configurations.
Once again it goes to show that even though we're trying to do the right thing in the lab, sometimes bad things happen, but typically we're able to come out with something in the experiment that is actually worthwhile. Crazy how that works eh?
Nonetheless, there is some pretty cool research at the University of Virginia in bucky ball related research. If anyone is interested, check out http://www.phys.virginia.edu
I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.
Why is any new discovery automatically thrown into the PC composnents arena, even when there is no actual connection?
It's a magnet, think SUPER-MOTOR.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
this is just soooo off-topic that I don't even bother to finish the senten
Transparent as in transparent aluminium, ala Trek? Can I build my whale tank now? ;)
Also, Makarova's material is flexible and transparent, properties that could make it useful for storing data when a laser is used to record on it. It might also be possible to record data at unprecedented densities.
Man, this is really going to piss off Hillary Rosen...
What about a new 'cool' translusent colored Fridge magnet!
If I understand correctly it is possible to change the magnetic state of this material... Maybe this FINIALLY means our persistent RAM??
I might be way off here
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
I can't make sense of that. 255C is higher than 200C. Did they mean -255C and -200C ?
Is it just me, or do the following quotes from the article not make sense ?
The new magnetic sheet "...is the first non-metallic magnet to work at room temperature."
"...she found instead that the new material was magnetic even above 200 C. Until now, the highest temperature at which a non-metallic material was magnetic was 255 C."
Which is it ?
The only reason I majored in C.S. rather than chemistry was because C.S. labs smelled marginally better...:)
MS: ALL YOUR
"Until now" as in "before this discovery".
Maybe you should try using what little part of your brain is still active.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Actually, no. What the article was saying was that the material is the first non-metallic material that was magnetic at room temperature (meaning that other non-magnetic materials weren't, at least not at room temperature). The point about the material being magnetic even above 200C was about the material's Curie point (above which the material stops being magnetic) being much higher than any other material, the previous record being 255C which was held by a different form of buckyballs. So this material is interesting because it's the first non-metallic material to be magnetic at room temperature and has a higher Curie point than any other non-metallic material to date.
Apparently, the material's magnetism could be linked to unpaired electrons, which can sustain a magnetic field when their spins are aligned (in this case there are unpaired electrons). One possibility is that they bond in triangular groups of three, which would provide for unpaired spins.
Although, to be used as computer memory it would have to have uniform magnetism, not just in pockets. But either way it's a significant step forward.
----------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.
- above 200 C < above 255 C. Do they mean, "below" ?
- 200 C is not exactly room-temperature. Water boils at 100 C, roughly
Still, this is a pretty sweet discovery. I wonder how strong these magnets are - strong enough to build an ultra-light motor ?>|<*:=
- room temperature.: Aound 21C.
- the new material was magnetic even above 200 C..The word "even" seems to imply that it is a feat to go above a certain temperature . Which implies that with higher temperature, materials tend to lose their magnetism (Curie point). Which implies that the material is also magnetic for all temperatures below 200 C. Which includes 21C, i.e. room temperature. Probably, the reason for the
strange formulation was that the researcher didn't have any oven handy which went over 200 C, or that any higher temperature fried his magnetism measuring equipment, or whatever. So he was just saying that at 200 C it was keeping
its magnetism, and that it was likely that it would keep it even beyond that mark.
- Until now, the highest temperature at which a non-metallic material was magnetic was 255 C. The words "until now" means "all materials known before" this one was discovered. Meaning that the 255 C refers to a different material. Oh, and btw, 255 C (that's minus 255) is below room temperature.
So where is the contradiction?... to wrap microscopic hardware parts. Finally we've found a solution to that one!
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
Thank you, you explained it much better than I did!
MS: ALL YOUR
But to her surprise, she found instead that the new material was magnetic even above 200 C
This means that the new material is magnetic Even above 200 C. Does'nt mean , It is not magnetic at room temperature.
Until now, the highest temperature at which a non-metallic material was magnetic was 255 C.
This means that before this discovery, the highest temprature at which a non metal behaved magnetically was -255 C. So basically, it's a jump of 455 C (from -255 to +200 C). I hope you are more clear now.
If only people use Metric system only , things would be much easier! Scientist should mention tempratures in Kelvins , not in C or F.
This Post was entirely made up of recycled electrons making up recycled signals to generate recycles ASCII to generate t
Crazy.
Tom.
They used a Soft Hyphen ( or ) character instead of a minus sign. Browsers are not supposed to display a Soft Hyphen unless the line is broken at that point.
And how many of them are from the educated US of A?
:-p
...
hehe
Next they're probably gonna complain, that they were confused because it wasn't measured in fahrenheit, and that the decimal nature of the temperature scale is illogical and that it should have been written in some obscure "impirical" way
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
The interesting thing about buckyballs is that their bonding is somewhat of a cross between the two: it is a polyaromatic (like graphite) but it is a molecular solid (similar to, but not exactly like, diamond).
Religion is the opiate of the masses. The wealthy smoke the real stuff.
As someone elsewhere pointed out they used a softhyphen for the - so many browsers don't show it unless there is a line break there.
Has anyone discovered a way to reliably make large quantities of Buckyballs? Last time I looked into it, it was very hard... They were very expensive and only available in small quantities for experimentation.
- US National Labs rotating Java model (doesn't show the bonds though).
- loads of static models at Rice.edu.
Nice one Mr.Buckminster....sig
Not only will they give us a new form of storage, but they can also be used as a treatment for AIDS.
Interesting how versatile a simple molecule can be..
I can understand how a magnetic non-metal could be written to with a laser (briefly heating a spot above the curie point I assume), but it's not clear that you can read with the same mechanism. Could someone with a real grasp of the physics take a guess at the mechanisms they're hinting at? For that matter, what do we do with memory with exceptional write performance, but dismal read performance. I'm sure there are some scientific and data acquisition applications that could benefit.
They don't need to make those iron-bearing structures anymore.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Strangeness..
Right, so yet another possible way to store lots of data. We hear about these all the time (holographic memory, molecular storage etc.), but when are we actually going to get some of this - at the moment everyone still seems to be working on Winchester drives and semiconductor memory.
Is all this just pie in the sky, or are people actually producing devices that use these exotic storage methods? I figure this is about the best place to ask.
Hooray! One more thing you don't need metals for!
So far, Carbon is good for hardness (diamond), tensile strength (aramid fiber, buckytubes), lubrication (graphite), electrical conductivity (buckytubes), and now it can even be used for magnetic memory, and presumably for transformer cores, and antennae.
When NanoTech hits in a big way, I suspect that we'll have a major issue with depletion of atmospheric CO2.
BTW, anyone know of a form of Carbon for that's good for optical fiber, or do we just continue to rely on Silicon for that?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It's a mistake in the HTML, the 250 should be -250, but they put a soft hyphen in instead of a minus sign or a dash.
Slashdot Jul 12:
Disk Storage Limits Loom 3-5 Years From Now states:
New technology won't be ready for something like ten years.
Does this carbontechnology smash the there mentioned barrier?
Will appliance be in time to nullify the harddisk manufacturers predictions?
So you use this as a cover for a pair of glasses. The lenses are separated into a 2D array. Then, you use a laser to that shines into the eye, using the reflection off the pupil and the 2d array, you find where you're "looking". Now, you take a wire and stick it in your brain that sends a "signal" of what you're "looking" at...or something.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
I looked at the source and saw a single ASCII '-' character, using IE and Netscape. It should display and on Netscape it does display. On IE it does NOT.
Nor is it fixed in IE 6.0.2600 that ships with XP.
Nasty little bug!
aramid is a bit more than just Carbon.. need nitrogen and oxygen too. This is a nice explanation on what kevlar (and other aramids) is..
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
I found it by using a hex editor on the page source. It is clearly 0xAD (173), a soft hyphen.
There aren't consumer level apps that max out existing memory yet, by orders of magnitude, anyhow. There are also still gains to be had from conventional storage. So it's the chicken-egg problem. Once existing technology is nearing it's limit, then someone will produce an alternative to keep up.. but it's nice to know there's lots of choices.
..don't panic
Niggers must be incarcerated. (paragraph 2)
Niggers trying to wear human clothes look so funny, don't you think? (paragraph 4)
I seriously do not beleive that anybody can come up with a credible argument against complete incineration of the negro race. (paragraph 10)
Niggers roaming freely in human inhabited areas is unacceptable. (paragraph 11)
I do not understand! The rest of your post seems so on-topic.
Carbon that channels energy- electricity, magnetic-
could make a great weapon. It would like organic flesh to sensors which are tuned for metals or nitrates.
No, -255C is impossible. It is below absolute zero. (-253.15C or 0Kelvin)
d /b ob.html ( an intro to superconductivity ) Will give you a primer if you are interested in this.
I would also conclude that they may have goten Kelvin and Celsius mixed up. (A lot of places do.)
I did some projects on this way back when cutting edge was Yittrium-Barium-Copper Oxide and we could use Liquid nitrogen rather than Liquid Helium.
Just think of the possibility of superconductivity at room tempurature:
Batteries that have huge spans. (You make a superconductor into a ring... walla.. you made a battery.)
Computers with no heat dissapation, and super fast. (Superconductors don't release ANY energy as waste, so no melting down of processors because they don't get hot at all. If the material is robust enough, they could make the MoBo, video card, and Ram. Damn, I bet that would make a quick computer )
Anyway, this discovery is important, as it one step closer to this utopia.
http://www.egglescliffe.org.uk/physics/supercon
Blah Blah Blah.
Your hatred for Americans got the better of you. (and everyone tells us that Americans are closed minded). It's supposed to read -200C and 225C. The problem is your browser. Wow, open source sure is neat-o.
Becided the use in computer technology could these be used to create more efficient generators, and lighter electrical motors that need less electrical energy to produce. Yea computers are great and all but just the Light Magnetic quality can help out a lot too.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I didn't post this as AC, but I can easily tell you what he did.
Cut and paste from a website... Add in dumb racist comments to see if anyone would even pay attention.
You caught it.
Blah Blah Blah.
Hmm ... first of - it's not supposed to read -200 and 225, but -250 and 200.
Secondly, I didn't have a problem seeing the soft hyphen (which, admitedly, I didn't know was the cause of the problem other people had).
Third - I don't hate americans anymore than I hate swedes or germans, I just like to make fun of them, because they tend to go stark raving mad, when you do that.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Absolute zero is not -253.15 deg C, it is -273.16 deg C.
Absolute zero is -273.16C, so -255C is indeed possible.
since ram is already getting so damn cheap (I recall back not too long ago - '95'ish - when it was $3-8 a meg) - now with these technologies to make it lighter, faster, better, cheaper - how much less will/can it cost?
my guess is that I will start getting paid to use the ram.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Someone did that to me once... reposted a letter I'd posted regarding UCITA, IIRC, but with added in references to masturbation and whatnot.
It was pretty funny. I enjoy a tasty roast once in awhile.
-l
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completely pure water boils at *exactly* 100C. it freezes at *exactly* 0C. these are the original technical definations of these temperatures, and are only changed by impurities in the water.
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
As someone pointed out, 0 K =273.15 C. But even if they were talking K rather than C, 200 K is colder than 255K.
------ "Darn floor. Big bite." (Koko the gorilla's best attempt at explaining the experience of an earthquake.)
News for Nerds. Stuff that matters.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
I figure most geeks on slashdot already know what a buckyball looks like; just in case, for the U.S. readers, this means soccerball-shaped...
I can confirm that in Netscape 6, the minus sign is missing (the 173 decimal one). Saving the page, opening it in WordPad (which shows it as -), and copying and pasting such a minus sign into Character Map shows it is a minus, but a different one (173) from the normal one.
Webdings shows it as a little bomb burst, BTW.
Anyway, it ain't just an ancient version of Konqueoreror that does it.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
It is absolutely amazing to see something like this happening. Upon entry on a research program most science programs I knew required the applicant to fill-in a form stating:
- what the project will be
- budget requirements
- chronogram
- publishing chronogram
- what the results will be
Now I wonder how many years of tenure one needs to be allowed to have unexpected results... *grin*Evidently, since it is this soft hyphen, if you CAN see it, then it is your browser that is busted, not those of us who can't. If you're bragging that your superior browser shows it, have a seat. Your baby is defective. The article is improperly formatted.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
This isn't exactly true, because boiling-point measurements also depend on the pressure. It's exactly 0 and 100 at a particular pressure, but it's non-trivial to establish that you have that pressure without knowing the temperature already - so you have a circle.
You can determine the triple-point of water, which is the pressure, temperature combination where it is a solid liquid AND gas simultaneously. I believe this is something like 0.16 C, but I'm not going to look it up right now. And it's at a fairly low pressure.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Caught it...and spoiled it. I, too, wanted to see if it got modded up.
It's mid-level trolling, 200-level. He goofed in putting in the first references so near the beginning. He (or a friend with some scientific knowledge, but not an expert in the field) should have read the article until the desire to start scrolling to the next message kicks in, then started adding Troll Meat a few sentences after that point.
I wonder if they could eventually assemble carbon atoms in such a way as to trade-off the flexibility of this "buckywall" structure for the durability of diamond.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
In case people can't read, the previous record was 255 degrees C BELOW zero. The new record is 200 degrees C ABOVE zero.
Where's the problem?
Could this technology be used to develop inexpensive flat panel displays? It sounds like it could possibly be ideal. Transparent, flexible, magnetic. I know that there was some talk recently about the possibility of using carbon nanotubes in a display device. Now if they could just get past the mass production barrier, things could be looking very good.
From what I understand, mass production shouldn't be too much of a problem either. First of all, I always thought that carbon nanotubes were a lot harder to produce than buckyballs. Second of all, Dr. Smalley has been claiming loudly that his company will be able to mass produce nanotubes in the very near future.
What do you think? Anyone have any info. on this?
"War makes me sad." - Me
What do you find hilarious? How do you feel they should be named? Who should name them, if not the discoverer?
Buckyballs is a nickname; the compound is 'buckminsterfullerene'.. a fitting name, given the molecule's resemblence to Buckminster Fuller's domes.
And why do you think bad things happen? Even though we're 'trying' to do the right thing? What they are TRYING to do is experiment - test their hypothesis. It's okay to be wrong.. that's the whole point of the scientific method. Real scientists never, ever expect to be right all the time; you experiment so you can further your research, whether it's to cut-off a certain avenue of thinking with certainty, or try to open up a new one.
They traded the forumla for transparent aluminum to the guy in exchange for the plexiglass they needed; they didn't have any money.
Even with the molecular structure, it would have taken years to figure out how to make it.
Absolute zero is -273.15C (or is it .16)
or 0K There is no such thing as 'degrees kelvin'; the proper way to say it is 'zero kelvins'.
And this discovery has absolutely nothing to do with superconductivity; only that they were trying to produce a superconductor when they discovered it was magnetic. This is not an advancement in superconductivity. They didn't produce a superconductor. That's obvious even without reading the article...
Also, you are correct about superconductors.. but... the reason microprocessors work is because they are full of SEMIconductors... transistors... you HAVE to have resistance.. you can't build logic with pure superconductors.
THE CLASSICS: DEEP SPACE HOMER
Episode Guide
BTW, I see some prick mod'd you down for injecting a little bit of ON TOPIC humor (must be some type 'A'sshole who combs the bristles to his toothbrush after flossing for an hour).
Well, here are some ON TOPIC links that shows this entire article is OLD hat (relatively speaking).
Scientific America : STRANGE ATTRACTORS - Chemists make magnets without metal
New Magnetic Materials
Cryostat Modeling for the Superconducting Interaction Region Magnets: CESR Phase III
All of these articles are circa 1997-98.
To add 'under *exactly* one atmosphere' of pressure, or 101.325 kpa ( I think )
Oh, and btw, 255 C (that's minus 255) is below room temperature.
Can we teach these people how to write proper HTML next time? I'm getting really confused trying to figure out if 255 is 255 or if it's really -255. And is it 200 or -200?
of course you're changing the temperature merely by measuring it.
it's a minor miracle that i can get my coffee to a reasonable temperature.
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
There is a bug in some browsers that fail to display the - sign. The articl may appear to say the previous temp was 255c when it actually says(look in the source) -255c.
I don't know how to post a story update, so I'll do this here.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Good idea, but I doubt it.
For large scale power generation, the generators do not use permanent magnets, but rather use electromagnets. These electromagnets are energized by a small current, then the generator spun up, and the electromagnets keep generating a magnetic field, either by being fed directly off the generator (like a car alternator works), or by simple induction (look here for how to do this yourself from common electric motors!!!). Permanent magnets tend to only be used on small generators like that used for bicycle lights, or for the spark generation on small engines (where I suppose it could make a difference).
As for motors, most AC motors, once again, are either induction based, or three phase with two sets of electromagnets - no permanent magnets used. Where it could get interesting though, for electric vehicles - where I think your idea might have merit. A lighter, but more powerful motor using these magnets (if they prove to be more powerful than other magnets, of course) would mean longer battery life. Still, I think some electric vehicles actually use AC motors as well, and do a DC->AC conversion. AC motors are used, I think, because even after the conversion from DC to AC, they are more powerful for a smaller package, and more efficient (of course, I could be wrong - someone enlighten me, please).
Also, smaller, lighter motors could mean smaller conventional DC motors, like smaller pager motors, smaller printer stepper motors, all the small motors that exist (smaller, lighter, more powerful kick-ass battlebot motors - yeah!!!)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
"Computer? Hello, computer?"
"Uh.. you have to use the keyboard."
"Ah.. they keyboard. How quaint."
"TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM?!?!?"
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
It's nice and quippy, but the fundamental flaw in your argument is the assumption that peace can never be regained. History shows otherwise. (WWII and Japan?)
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Actually, from what I understand, what "holds the light in around curves" in current fiber optic strands is the cladding, which is of a different refraction index, thus it bends (bounces) the light back toward the center, except in extremely tight bends. I would imagine the same thing would/could be done with this stuff. Also, sometimes having the light leak can be a good thing: Think VR glove bend sensors, and lightweight robotic whisker bump sensors (see Gordon McCombs latest edition of "99 Inexpensive Robotics Projects" for more on this one)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I wonder if this stuff could be used to make "flat ribbon"-style speakers better & cheaper?
Judgement withheld until reproduced in other labs.
Letter To Iran
A quick "View Source" check on the page revealed the following:
So it looks like she beat the old record by over 455 degrees.One word... Wow!
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Since Silcon cages (similar to Bucky balls) have been discovered (see http://www.sciam.com/news/022701/1.html), I can't stop thinking that this will lead to a major breakthrough in Silcon Bucky Balls. The potential, if this same (similar) relationship exists in silicon, is incredible!
When a Ball Dreams, It Dreams it's a Frisbee.
This technology is OLD NEWS. I've had flexible, non-metallic magnets sitting around my house for at least 10 years or so now. In fact they are SO common, I use them primarily to stick things to my fridge.
256TB at 2032? 512PB makes more sense, even for gates family.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Ok, maybe not flying ones, and it might not apply to cars, but this would finally give mag-lev trains the lift they need. Light, flexible, and since it's transparent you could make as much of the train out of it as you needed. The only barrier would cost, and since (from the spotty detail in the article) it would seem to be easily manufactured that would not be much of an issue either.
Of course, going off with this (and depending on how magnetic it turns out to be), we could have magnetic skating rinks (and you thought ice was low friction!), beds with air as a cusion instead of springs, car bumpers that could repulse in the event of a collision, or attract to enable "convoying" on freeways. I'm just going off because magnetics seems to be one area that science has not advanced in as much as other areas, our greatest (sarcasm here) use of magnetics is for those perpetual motion machines you see alongside the inspirational posters.
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!
dont you know that you shouldnt be advertising these bugs to the public! Did you contact microsoft about this. Good job you just got the security community in a heap of bad press by proving that culp was right. thanks.
Who's bragging? I was explaining why I was acting stupid earlier. I didn't know there was a problem, and when I found out, I changed my stance. How were you expecting me to behave? Like a politician?
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Back in the early 90s when I was working on C60 synthesis, it was quite well known that bucky ball went superconductive at super low temperatures (which is weird because graphite doesn't, and bucky ball is basically graphite wrapped into a ball, the only quickly notatable difference being bent p-orbitals). There has been so much fullerene work done so far that I am rather confused as to how this one piece more of research on the subject ended up here on /.. I'm guessing due to the bell publicity stunt announcement recently.
On the ironic note, today's Dictionary.com word of the day is Serendipity : The faculty or phenomenon of making fortunate accidental discoveries
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/092000/Superconducti ng_Transistor.html
Is it possible, from examining the style of the source, to identify the page creation tool which produced this poor code? Clearly it should not be a soft hyphen. It's not the browser at fault so much as the editor.
Didn't know that. Cool.
that you watch the movie again.
I'm absolutely, 100%, positively sure about this. So is every review of the movie I can find online.
They didn't have USD because they don't use money in the future...remember when they first arrive on earth? They need money?
Scotty traded the guy the formula for transparent aluminum. It was a *plexiglass* factory. It's even mentioned in the movie (I forget by who) that it will take years just to figure out how to synthesize... and they needed their plexiglass *immediately*.
Well, I don't think I'll ever meet anyone who's not Carbon-based, but if I do I'll try to keep an open mind. There's no need to call me "biased." ;-)
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Actually, my original comment which I cut and pasted the offending piece from the article. I still can't see the minus sign in my comment.
But, I have just cut and paste from my comment into notepad, and can now see the minus sign !!! Yay!
I remember a lot of this from high school physics - I didn't want to get too deep into it in my reply, but you did an excellent job.
One thing, I am sure you are aware of, is in regards to the wave/particle duality of particles (double slit experiment), which of course begins to lead one down a slippery slope toward quantum physics, HUP, and other "magical" things...
Looks like, in a way, Newton was right after all.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon