Oh, please. You're either lying or don't know what you're talking about.
I don't think that even the heartiest Mozilla developers would claim that the current developer release is faster than IE.
Geez, comments like this don't help make Mozilla look better. It just proves that OSS zealots are going around with blinders on and are unable to offer constructive critisism when it might make an open source project look bad.
Mozilla is basically unusable. (now three monthes from now, we'll see)
How could I possibly suggest to someone to try out Linux on their home PC? The first time they try to surf the 'net they'd be calling me up wanting to know why so many websites don't render properly... Or why they can't play a certain media clip... or why Java doesn't work right... or... you know the problems.
I'd say most home PC's are used for web browsing and some simple word processing. What possible reason would they have for using Linux when there are so many reasons NOT to? Even the free (beer) argument doesn't work because they all come bundled with a M$ OS whether they like it or not.
(now if he wanted an incredible server... I'd jump on it!)
> The manual might as well be a single sheet with the words "Magic Happens. Send it back if it's broke."
This is all most people want to know. I'm sure it costs money to create decent end-user documentation. If 99.9% of the people buying your product get scared by the 400 page manual complete with fold out schematics in the back, why would they spend the money (even if they weren't concerned about clones)?
With the cost of producing a printer (or other HW) these days, yeah, bring the thing back and they'll give you a new one.
Now, back when I paid $1000 for the Lt. Kernel hard drive for my C=64, that was a differnet story.
(One of the best I got was a black book that came with a $700 modem. Incredible.)
When a programmer says, "I know C++, VB, VBScript, Perl, Java, PHP, etc...", what exactly does that mean?
Does it mean that they have a high level of proficiency where they know all of the intricacies and idiosyncrasies in each language in their list, or that they have a basic understanding of the syntax and could at least get "Hello World" to compile?
Maybe I'm just trying to figure this out to calm the uncertainty of my own inadequacies.
Yeah, that's why nobody here would ever go close to some lame, unsupported OS like Linux. Without somebody like Microsoft or Sun there with support 24x7x365 to help when I have a problem, it's just not worth the risk. And I surely wouldn't want to pay someone other than the guys who produce the software to support it, even if they are possibly better able to and more willing.
This just shows how effective those little blurbs in the boot sequence are! They made Donald Becker a household name. Well, maybe not, but you get the point.
The new user's pc comes with no browser installed. The guy at the store says he will install either IE or Netscape and gives the user a chart showing the features, faults, etc. of each of them. Which would the user be more likely to choose? The honest answer would have to be IE.
It hardly ever crashes, it's fast, it has some really nice features that Netscape doesn't. It just works better.
Install both? Why waste the space? The average user only needs one browser.
Even if the average home user was easily able to install Netscape, why would they? What would be the driving force for them to do it?
Why install an inferior product when you have something that already works fine as it is.
The only reason I have Netscape installed on my NT boxen is so that I can test websites to make sure they render correctly.
One reason I can't make a complete switch to Linux is because I have to have a fast, stable environment for web browsing. I can't get that on Linux yet. And despite what most people on here would have you believe, NT workstation is a VERY stable platform.
...of course all of our important servers are Linux...;)
(and I LOVE scrolling web pages with my mouse wheel thingy!)
Re:Think Geek has raised it's price...
on
MySQL
·
· Score: 1
Of course! I use PKZip25 to zip up important data on our servers, then the zip file is ftp'ed to servers across the internet.
WinZip? Geez. I must admit that I use Windows Commander for handling my delicate zip jobs. WC is just an incredible program.
I've tryed out many Norton Commander clones on Linux, but none of them come close. At this point I don't have the ability to create anything better than what's out there, so I guess I'll have to wait for someone else to do it before I feel really comfortable in Gnome...
And if I write an app to take advantage of all the great things that bonobo can do I have to force my users to use Gnome?
I hope I'm wrong in this assumption. While I agree that choice is good, fragmentation and redudent use of scarce programmer resources is just plain stupid.
Say you've got 20 uber-spreadsheet-guru guys, 10 working on kSpreadsheetx and 10 working on gSpreadsheetx. Why not put all 20 together, get it out faster, and with much higher quality and attention to detail?
I guess I'm missing something. I love Linux, but I don't buy into the idea that there should be 120 teams working on different apps that do the same thing.
I know you can write apps that will work just about anywhere, but then you loose all this great new functionality. It's going to be VERY hard on new users who install RH6.2, get Gnome as their default desktop, and then can't figure out why kDevelop won't work on it.
Offtopic? Aren't you familiar with The Princess Bride? It's a followup on "HHHHHaaalo, my name is Jeremy Allison, your Weendows server eees dead, preeeepare to Samba...."
This is not meant to sound like a troll. I love Linux and think Moz is a great effort. It's the reality of the thing that hurts me.
It is considerably slower. I don't understand why people are posting comments like "It Rocks" or "This is so stable"
It's not. An app like this, even at Alpha stage, would NEVER make any headway in the MS Windows world. People there expect applications to be relatively stable and to follow standard GUI guidelines.
It seems that in the Linux world people have lowered their expectations to the point where they can be happy with sub-par apps. It's a trick of the mind to make you feel better.
That's why I stick with the console! I don't need no stinkin' graphics to get the kind of work I do done. The average user on the other hand...
Most distributions of Linux that I have installed have also installed Netscape by deafult on my system.
What is the difference between that and MS installing IE when you setup Windows?
I love my Linux boxen, and we use them for all of our servers, but I have to resort to using my NT box with IE if I want to do some browsing without having to worry about it crashing every 20 minutes or so.
I just downloaded the Win32 version of Mozilla and it just looks horrible. True, it looks a heck of a lot better than previous versions, but... I have restarted it 12 times now, not once has it worked for more than 5 minutes. Move the sidebar around on a sufficiently advanced page and I get garbage all over the place.
It's very frustrating. I try to be a "Good Linux Advocate" but after seeing what is available for browsing most people who don't care about/understand the power of Linux get turned off very quickly.
BTW, I started writing this in Mozilla but after it crashing when I tried to submit this I had to resort to IE.:(
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, please. You're either lying or don't know what you're talking about.
I don't think that even the heartiest Mozilla developers would claim that the current developer release is faster than IE.
Geez, comments like this don't help make Mozilla look better. It just proves that OSS zealots are going around with blinders on and are unable to offer constructive critisism when it might make an open source project look bad.
Mozilla is basically unusable. (now three monthes from now, we'll see)
How could I possibly suggest to someone to try out Linux on their home PC? The first time they try to surf the 'net they'd be calling me up wanting to know why so many websites don't render properly... Or why they can't play a certain media clip... or why Java doesn't work right... or... you know the problems.
I'd say most home PC's are used for web browsing and some simple word processing. What possible reason would they have for using Linux when there are so many reasons NOT to? Even the free (beer) argument doesn't work because they all come bundled with a M$ OS whether they like it or not.
(now if he wanted an incredible server... I'd jump on it!)
> The manual might as well be a single sheet with the words "Magic Happens. Send it back if it's broke."
This is all most people want to know. I'm sure it costs money to create decent end-user documentation. If 99.9% of the people buying your product get scared by the 400 page manual complete with fold out schematics in the back, why would they spend the money (even if they weren't concerned about clones)?
With the cost of producing a printer (or other HW) these days, yeah, bring the thing back and they'll give you a new one.
Now, back when I paid $1000 for the Lt. Kernel hard drive for my C=64, that was a differnet story.
(One of the best I got was a black book that came with a $700 modem. Incredible.)
Prices are double? Where are you living? Geez, I'd move.
I'm paying about $1.40 per gallon.
Or maybe where you live gas was like $.70 last year? Cool!
When a programmer says, "I know C++, VB, VBScript, Perl, Java, PHP, etc...", what exactly does that mean?
Does it mean that they have a high level of proficiency where they know all of the intricacies and idiosyncrasies in each language in their list, or that they have a basic understanding of the syntax and could at least get "Hello World" to compile?
Maybe I'm just trying to figure this out to calm the uncertainty of my own inadequacies.
I'm really not trying to be off topic here, and this may sound like a stupid question, but...
.au file on their site with Andy Grove saying, "I pronounce Xeon Xeon." ;)
Exactly how do you pronounce Xeon?
They need an
It sucks up all the crusty bits and combines them in the bag?
It's possible! That's the way I interpreted it.
Yeah, that's why nobody here would ever go close to some lame, unsupported OS like Linux. Without somebody like Microsoft or Sun there with support 24x7x365 to help when I have a problem, it's just not worth the risk. And I surely wouldn't want to pay someone other than the guys who produce the software to support it, even if they are possibly better able to and more willing.
This just shows how effective those little blurbs in the boot sequence are! They made Donald Becker a household name. Well, maybe not, but you get the point.
Ok, so what about this scenerio:
The new user's pc comes with no browser installed. The guy at the store says he will install either IE or Netscape and gives the user a chart showing the features, faults, etc. of each of them. Which would the user be more likely to choose? The honest answer would have to be IE.
It hardly ever crashes, it's fast, it has some really nice features that Netscape doesn't. It just works better.
Install both? Why waste the space? The average user only needs one browser.
Even if the average home user was easily able to install Netscape, why would they? What would be the driving force for them to do it?
;)
Why install an inferior product when you have something that already works fine as it is.
The only reason I have Netscape installed on my NT boxen is so that I can test websites to make sure they render correctly.
One reason I can't make a complete switch to Linux is because I have to have a fast, stable environment for web browsing. I can't get that on Linux yet. And despite what most people on here would have you believe, NT workstation is a VERY stable platform.
...of course all of our important servers are Linux...
(and I LOVE scrolling web pages with my mouse wheel thingy!)
ComputerBookstore.com has it for $29.49.
s p?page=2&SIID=14
http://computerbookstore.com/OnSale/Publisher.a
Shipping is pretty stiff. Total is $36.74.
Of course! I use PKZip25 to zip up important data on our servers, then the zip file is ftp'ed to servers across the internet.
WinZip? Geez. I must admit that I use Windows Commander for handling my delicate zip jobs. WC is just an incredible program.
I've tryed out many Norton Commander clones on Linux, but none of them come close. At this point I don't have the ability to create anything better than what's out there, so I guess I'll have to wait for someone else to do it before I feel really comfortable in Gnome...
But how many people still use PKUnzip64?
This may be offtopic, but it's important to understand the topic...
What's a bollock?
And if I write an app to take advantage of all the great things that bonobo can do I have to force my users to use Gnome?
I hope I'm wrong in this assumption. While I agree that choice is good, fragmentation and redudent use of scarce programmer resources is just plain stupid.
Say you've got 20 uber-spreadsheet-guru guys, 10 working on kSpreadsheetx and 10 working on gSpreadsheetx. Why not put all 20 together, get it out faster, and with much higher quality and attention to detail?
I guess I'm missing something. I love Linux, but I don't buy into the idea that there should be 120 teams working on different apps that do the same thing.
I know you can write apps that will work just about anywhere, but then you loose all this great new functionality. It's going to be VERY hard on new users who install RH6.2, get Gnome as their default desktop, and then can't figure out why kDevelop won't work on it.
What is depirately needed is a common set of keystroke functions between apps.
I can sit down at an NT box, load up an app I've never seen before, and zip through it without touching a mouse by using keystrokes.
And what was the hot news posted on WonkoSlice today?
/. !!!
;)
"IDcide provides security while you browse"
Seems like this was post 5 DAYS AGO on
Hmmmm, change is definitely needed.
Offtopic? Aren't you familiar with The Princess Bride? It's a followup on "HHHHHaaalo, my name is Jeremy Allison, your Weendows server eees dead, preeeepare to Samba...."
Geez. It made me laugh.
I have run this on one of my boxes. The only complaints I get are related to SSLeay. Can someone explain to me what this means?
/usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 768 >= 512 for section `' /usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 1024 >= 512 for section `' /usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 768 >= 512 for section `' /usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 768 >= 512 for section `' /usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 1024 >= 512 for section `' /usr/src/SSLeay-0.9.0b/test/riptest: invalid string offset 5632 >= 512 for section `'
BFD:
BFD:
BFD:
BFD:
BFD:
BFD:
It sounds like somebody's upset that THEY weren't invited to a party today!
This is not meant to sound like a troll. I love Linux and think Moz is a great effort. It's the reality of the thing that hurts me.
It is considerably slower. I don't understand why people are posting comments like "It Rocks" or "This is so stable"
It's not. An app like this, even at Alpha stage, would NEVER make any headway in the MS Windows world. People there expect applications to be relatively stable and to follow standard GUI guidelines.
It seems that in the Linux world people have lowered their expectations to the point where they can be happy with sub-par apps. It's a trick of the mind to make you feel better.
That's why I stick with the console! I don't need no stinkin' graphics to get the kind of work I do done. The average user on the other hand...
--Spudnic
Most distributions of Linux that I have installed have also installed Netscape by deafult on my system.
:(
What is the difference between that and MS installing IE when you setup Windows?
I love my Linux boxen, and we use them for all of our servers, but I have to resort to using my NT box with IE if I want to do some browsing without having to worry about it crashing every 20 minutes or so.
I just downloaded the Win32 version of Mozilla and it just looks horrible. True, it looks a heck of a lot better than previous versions, but... I have restarted it 12 times now, not once has it worked for more than 5 minutes. Move the sidebar around on a sufficiently advanced page and I get garbage all over the place.
It's very frustrating. I try to be a "Good Linux Advocate" but after seeing what is available for browsing most people who don't care about/understand the power of Linux get turned off very quickly.
BTW, I started writing this in Mozilla but after it crashing when I tried to submit this I had to resort to IE.
So if a new version came out today, I would be upgrading from WINE 121299 to WINE 11000?
I do like the idea of dates as version numbers, but I think we should stick with 19991212 or 20000110 so they remain sequential.
I like that Novell went backwards with their numbering and released NetWare vesion 3.2 years after they came out with NetWare 4.x.
Any other the old Clipper guys out there who remember the "Summer '87" version?
IIRC, DirecTV is working on a deal with Tivo for providing some pretty cools solutions.