Microsoft failed in the embedded market (except on PDAs where they are doing OK) because:
WinCE is too expensive. In lower numbers (like several hundred per year), you pay about 100$ per unit (at least that's what I have been told). I have no idea how much you pay for mass-produced devices, probably a lot less. Still you want to standardize on an OS, so you will choose one that can be profitable on both mass-produced devices and niche devices. You won't choose WinCE. Also you usually have only a very vague idea how many units you will sell of a particular device. When your device becomes a smash-hit, you may be easily be paying the WinCE license fees, but if the numbers stay slow, WinCE can turn the numbers into the red, espcecially if you have to lower the price of the device.
WinCE is only suitable for PDAs and not really that useful anywhere else. WinCE comes with an good graphics library, but most embedded devices don't need it. With non-graphic applications, WinCE just slows you down.
Nobody trusts Microsoft that prices and contracts will stay stable.
You don't get the source code. (Yes, the end-user doesn't care, but the embedded developer does.)
WinCE doesn't offer anything valuable. Yes, I'll get flamed for saying that, but face it: The only thing Windows does better than other operating systems is running Win32 or WinCE-PDA applications. If you don't need that, why use Windows?
Embedded developers are not used to be dependent on the OS. General purpose operating systems became popular only recently on embedded systems. Most embedded systems were developed with no or a specially designed OS inhouse. Moving from the inhouse-OS (with source-code available and no license fees) to WinCE could very well be considered a step backward. The same person might be happily paing for Windows on his PC but would not dream of switching to a non-free (as in having the source and as in beer) OS.
Yes, I do work in embedded systems. Microsoft has already lost that market. On PDAs, they are still holding out pretty well, but in the long term I see them losing that, too.
I work with a company that is a MS-only shop. The employees are not allowed to hook up any non-MS computers on the internal LAN and all servers have been replaced (against the will of some admins) from HP-UX to NT some years ago. Some developers need Linux for developing embedded systems and they are not allowed to hook those computers onto the LAN! They have to transfer data with Laptops, CDs and diskettes!
To make it short, this is probably one of the most die-hard Microsoft companies that exists.
Yet, even in this extremely pro-Microsoft company, new computers are installed by OpenOffice by default since a couple of months. Sure, employees can still have MS Office if they want to, but they have to explicitely order it. Also that probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't because one employee put that proposal forward. - But still. This is a extreme Microsoft company (even though they are converting their embedded systems to Linux they are extremely hostile about any non-MS OS on a "real" computer) but OpenOffice still made inroads. Big inroads. Huge "being the default" inroads. Yes it will take years until OpenOffice will become "the standard" in that company. But it will happen.
Now if this happens under MS-loving management, you can imagine what happens in normal companies. OpenOffice is coming and is coming big.
Also I don't know why anybody thinks of "switching". Nobody switches. Nobody. You just wait until you need new hardware and then upgrade to OpenOffice instead of MS Office XY. No big deal.
In my experience, Linux is much less time-intensive to administer than Windows, especially on larger installations.
With Windows you constantly have to worry about Registry-rotting, Viruses and patches.
With Linux you have occasionally worry about patches and never about a registry and viruses.
Please note that: occasionally < constantly
Windows is easy to set up. It's easy, but time consuming to add all the needed additional software: Office suite, ICQ, AIM, zip-utility, a browser that doesn't suck, multiple desktop support and much, much more.
Linux (at least SuSE or Mandrake) is easy to set up and comes with a pretty complete work environment. You will probably need only one or 2 extra software packages, if at all. Gentoo and Debian are harder to set up but even easier to keep up todate.
If you don't need some Win32-only software, Linux is the way to go. Always. Also on the desktop.
Well, as far as I could see, the XBox audience consists mostly of PC-users that love high MHz numbers and are used to pirate games.
So I guess there are a lot of modded XBoxes.
Actually, by now, there are so many prerequesites to use XBox-life, I would be surprised of more than a few percent of XBox-owners will buy it. The majority doesn't have broadband and the few broadband owners are - you guessed it - even more likely to have modded their XBox.
This is certainly a stupid move from Microsoft and another nail into XBoxes coffin.
The differnence is that a grocery store has actually a realistical possibility in returning the investment and finally make a profit.
Microsoft's playthings like XBox and WinCE will never be profitable.
Or to put it in words you understand:
ALL divisions at Microsoft are dependent on Windows and Office. With people refusing to upgrade and/or migrating to OpenOffice and Linux, ***** ALL ****** Microsoft products are endangered. - Sooner than you might think.
Expect the MSFT-shares to drop a bit in price over the next days. Shareholders don't like being lied to - they also don't like a company that is picking up losing ventures one after another (most recently and most serious is XBox. Sold about half as many units as Microsoft expected and promised - at a higher loss than expected.)
It's no coincidence that Bill Gates sells thousands of shares each week. He knows that even after all the beating the MSFT-stock received, it's still overpriced.
Microsoft's problem is that without happy shareholders, all their tax-stock-option loopholes don't work anymore. And without them, they would make losses - RIGHT NOW.
Always remember: The most profitable product Microsoft sells is not Windows and not Office, it's MSFT-stock.
Wrong, this IS news. And very important news indeed.
Everywhere you see the Wintrolls saying how great WinCE is. how great MSN is, how great XBox is.
Fact is that all those are just losing money and not what Microsoft wants us to think they are. *ALL* their products except for Windows and Office are so crappy that they couldn't survive without massive cash infusions.
I always suspected that MSN and WinCE are not making any money (and I was called crazy when I said so), now I know that I am right.
If you think that any private person currently uses Linux, you are wrong.
I've paid zero for Windows (came with computers) but have paid over 500$ for various Linux distributions in the last years.
Was it worth it?
Sure it was, I can be more profitable using a real GUI than using Windows' single-desktop excuse for a GUI. (Windows XP's 4 measly desktops are too little, too late, sorry. I have barely enough space on KDE's 16 desktops. KDE1 was better but uglier than Windows. KDE3 is better and prettier.)
I now don't have to manage different versions of.docs
I no longer have to download, manage and install various add-on software because from office-suite to ICQ-client, everything is included in a decent distro.
I don't have to worry about worms, viruses and don't have to waste that much time on applying patches. (Sure I have to do it, but I waste much less time than I would using Windows.) I also don't have to care about virus scanners.
I can quickly solve any problem that arises. For example I have a script to prefix files with a given string. (simple shellscript) With Windows, it's of course possible, but it's much harder because I would have to learn VBscript which is different to normal commands.
Money is not the reason why I use Linux. Time is.
With Linux I am a much happier computer user than I was with Windows. I regained the ability to let the computer do exactly what I want, not just what some programmers thought of.
Most Apache servers run on Linux or BSD, only very few on Solaris and even fewer on Windows.
Anyway, my main point was that a) Windows is being marginalized on servers and b) because of that, it's not that much of a problem to scrap Windows altogether. Windows is only used for a rather small (and shrinking) minority of servers. Because it is shrinking it wouldn't take long anyway until Windows is de-facto gone on Japanese servers. - Even without the extra effort from the government. The government is not really starting anything new here, they are just accelerating the existing market movement away from Windows and towards Linux and BSD.
Wether they are switching the remaining legacy Windows computers to Linux or BSD doesn't make much of a difference, Linux and BSD are interchangeable in all aspects that matter.
MS can then buy out all your countries government bodies and universities to make absolutely sure open source will never ever see the light of day in any place that matters.
Despite what Microsoft-fanboys told you, this is nonsense.
Actually most sentences that contain the word "never" are complete and utter nonsense.
True is:
MS can then buy out some of your contiries government bodies and universities to make absolutely sure open source will not see the light of day in the next year in most places that matter.
So what. They can only slow Linux down for a year or two, they can't stop it. This bribery will just attract more and more "we will migrate away" threats. They can't pay everyone to run Windows. *most* users will have to pay, not the other way around
Wait until you hear it from Yomiuri or Asahi shimbun-- then bother to burn some brain cells.
Would it make any difference for an illiterate like you?
From the article, the first paragraph:
The Japanese government is reviewing the possibility of no longer using Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system as part of its plans to boost computer security within the government, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported Saturday.
Spending money in your own country's software is a red herring, because it will sacrifice economies of scale and waste resources on compatibility with other country's software.
They won't build anything from scratch, they will use KDE/Linux and will maybe modify some parts of KDE - if at all, it's already done for the most part.
But essentially, you are right. Why should we use unstable, crappy software that runs only on glorified typewriters when we have an OS that runs on everything from mainframes down to embedded systems? Why should we run an insecure and slow OS that runs only on x86, when we already have an OS that runs on almost every CPU in existence?
Standardizing on Linux makes much more sense than standardizing on Windows.
Despite many announcements and press-releases, Microsoft is very strong in developing countries (including south America).
In industrial countries where labour is expensive, like Germany and Japan, Linux is making inroads on desktops and has already marginalized Windows on Servers:
For developing countries, the cost of hiring many people to babysit Windows computers is no problem, but where labour cost is high, the switch to Linux can pay off already in the first year.
(Yes I know, that contradicts to Microsoft "Windows-TCO-is-low" propaganda, but so is reality.)
I take this announcement much more seriously than all the announcements from China lately. The Japanese are able and willing to abandon Windows completely - unlike the Chinese.
Bill Gates himself goes on a trip to a country that has recently started to develop significant Linux precence including cheap Linux devices for the masses. Bill's action can only be interpreted as an act of desperation.
... except on Slashdot of course.
Slashdot (and unfortunately most Linux communities) have been infected by Microsoft FUD, it's no longer funny:
Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt:
"Hopefully this won't have a large effect on it." (Translation: Whine, whine, whine, I'm so afraid, uncertain and doubtful.) Just read a few more posts, most contain similar statements. Yes, this is FUD by its finest.
By now we have even reached a point where it is no longer allowed to have optimistic points of view. It's considered obscene and strange if you do. When Eric S. Raymond said that Linux will gain massively on cheap computers, he was called crazy, a freak and whatever in the accompanying Slashdot-thread. (Of course Walmart and Gericom have already proven that Linux sells on cheaper computers - of course nobody realized that. When announced, everybody was afraid, doubtful and uncertain about the Linux-PC's success. (Would Walmart really sell a losing product for over half a year? Would Walmart extend their commitment twice? - They went from clean PCs to Lindows-preloaded, then later added Mandrake.))
Currently we live in a situation where almost everybody, even many Linux-supporters spread FUD (in the literal sense: "Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt") about Linux.
Such massive anti-propaganda would have killed almost any commercial product within only few years. Would anybody buy Windows when Bill Gates would constantly say stuff like: "Hopefully Torvald's speech on Linux-Expo won't have a large effect on our sales"? Of course not.
The FACT that despite this hostile environment, KDE/Linux is not only surviving but growing - in terms of development as well as in terms of marketshare, is the biggest proof that Linux is here not only to stay but also to become the standard platform on all mainstream computing markets within this decade.
The sad part is that most slashdotters don't seem to realize what they are doing - that they are spreading anti-Linux FUD.
Or to put it in another way: The FUD spread by Bill Gates in India (or anywhere else) can't be worse than the FUD spread by Linux-supporters on slashdot (or elsewhere).
Exactly that's what I've thought when he told that users would get a copy which "they wouldn't want" when they save a file under a new name (Arrgh. Does he propose to delete the old file?)
If I wanted pencil and paper, I would use pencil and paper.
Tell the guy to use StarOffice/OpenOffice, in case of a crash it restores all open documents, so no data loss. (And it did this for years)
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, I do work in embedded systems. Microsoft has already lost that market. On PDAs, they are still holding out pretty well, but in the long term I see them losing that, too.
It's been the default for just a couple of months, the installed base is still mostly MS Office.
To make it short, this is probably one of the most die-hard Microsoft companies that exists.
Yet, even in this extremely pro-Microsoft company, new computers are installed by OpenOffice by default since a couple of months. Sure, employees can still have MS Office if they want to, but they have to explicitely order it. Also that probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't because one employee put that proposal forward. - But still. This is a extreme Microsoft company (even though they are converting their embedded systems to Linux they are extremely hostile about any non-MS OS on a "real" computer) but OpenOffice still made inroads. Big inroads. Huge "being the default" inroads. Yes it will take years until OpenOffice will become "the standard" in that company. But it will happen.
Now if this happens under MS-loving management, you can imagine what happens in normal companies. OpenOffice is coming and is coming big.
Also I don't know why anybody thinks of "switching". Nobody switches. Nobody. You just wait until you need new hardware and then upgrade to OpenOffice instead of MS Office XY. No big deal.
As soon as all major PC-makers offer non-MS options on all their computers.
In my experience, Linux is much less time-intensive to administer than Windows, especially on larger installations.
With Windows you constantly have to worry about Registry-rotting, Viruses and patches.
With Linux you have occasionally worry about patches and never about a registry and viruses.
Please note that: occasionally < constantly
Windows is easy to set up. It's easy, but time consuming to add all the needed additional software: Office suite, ICQ, AIM, zip-utility, a browser that doesn't suck, multiple desktop support and much, much more.
Linux (at least SuSE or Mandrake) is easy to set up and comes with a pretty complete work environment. You will probably need only one or 2 extra software packages, if at all. Gentoo and Debian are harder to set up but even easier to keep up todate.
If you don't need some Win32-only software, Linux is the way to go. Always. Also on the desktop.
So I guess there are a lot of modded XBoxes.
Actually, by now, there are so many prerequesites to use XBox-life, I would be surprised of more than a few percent of XBox-owners will buy it. The majority doesn't have broadband and the few broadband owners are - you guessed it - even more likely to have modded their XBox.
This is certainly a stupid move from Microsoft and another nail into XBoxes coffin.
Are we really already so fucked up that when Microsoft is not competent enough to implement technologies, we are no longer allowed to use them?
No, Mozilla/Phoenix never had any security problem even remotely as severe as this.
Recently there was some big fuss about a so-called "security hole" which alled a webmaster to know which link you clicked on his site.
I take 100 of these holes anytime over just one IE-sized format-and-destroy hole.
I wonder if they sell "I survived Bali" T-shirts on Bali...
That should read:
If you think that any private person currently uses Linux because it's cheaper, you are wrong.
Microsoft's playthings like XBox and WinCE will never be profitable.
Or to put it in words you understand:
ALL divisions at Microsoft are dependent on Windows and Office. With people refusing to upgrade and/or migrating to OpenOffice and Linux, ***** ALL ****** Microsoft products are endangered. - Sooner than you might think.
Expect the MSFT-shares to drop a bit in price over the next days. Shareholders don't like being lied to - they also don't like a company that is picking up losing ventures one after another (most recently and most serious is XBox. Sold about half as many units as Microsoft expected and promised - at a higher loss than expected.)
It's no coincidence that Bill Gates sells thousands of shares each week. He knows that even after all the beating the MSFT-stock received, it's still overpriced.
Microsoft's problem is that without happy shareholders, all their tax-stock-option loopholes don't work anymore. And without them, they would make losses - RIGHT NOW.
Always remember: The most profitable product Microsoft sells is not Windows and not Office, it's MSFT-stock.
Everywhere you see the Wintrolls saying how great WinCE is. how great MSN is, how great XBox is.
Fact is that all those are just losing money and not what Microsoft wants us to think they are. *ALL* their products except for Windows and Office are so crappy that they couldn't survive without massive cash infusions.
I always suspected that MSN and WinCE are not making any money (and I was called crazy when I said so), now I know that I am right.
I've paid zero for Windows (came with computers) but have paid over 500$ for various Linux distributions in the last years.
Was it worth it?
Sure it was, I can be more profitable using a real GUI than using Windows' single-desktop excuse for a GUI. (Windows XP's 4 measly desktops are too little, too late, sorry. I have barely enough space on KDE's 16 desktops. KDE1 was better but uglier than Windows. KDE3 is better and prettier.)
I now don't have to manage different versions of .docs
I no longer have to download, manage and install various add-on software because from office-suite to ICQ-client, everything is included in a decent distro.
I don't have to worry about worms, viruses and don't have to waste that much time on applying patches. (Sure I have to do it, but I waste much less time than I would using Windows.) I also don't have to care about virus scanners.
I can quickly solve any problem that arises. For example I have a script to prefix files with a given string. (simple shellscript) With Windows, it's of course possible, but it's much harder because I would have to learn VBscript which is different to normal commands.
Money is not the reason why I use Linux. Time is.
With Linux I am a much happier computer user than I was with Windows. I regained the ability to let the computer do exactly what I want, not just what some programmers thought of.
Neither KDE/Linux nor MacOSX users are forced to use bash, so your plan is doomed to fail...
Anyway, my main point was that a) Windows is being marginalized on servers and b) because of that, it's not that much of a problem to scrap Windows altogether. Windows is only used for a rather small (and shrinking) minority of servers. Because it is shrinking it wouldn't take long anyway until Windows is de-facto gone on Japanese servers. - Even without the extra effort from the government. The government is not really starting anything new here, they are just accelerating the existing market movement away from Windows and towards Linux and BSD.
Wether they are switching the remaining legacy Windows computers to Linux or BSD doesn't make much of a difference, Linux and BSD are interchangeable in all aspects that matter.
Most of the "other" webservers are Roxen server which was open-sourced recently.
Despite what Microsoft-fanboys told you, this is nonsense.
Actually most sentences that contain the word "never" are complete and utter nonsense.
True is:
MS can then buy out some of your contiries government bodies and universities to make absolutely sure open source will not see the light of day in the next year in most places that matter.
So what. They can only slow Linux down for a year or two, they can't stop it. This bribery will just attract more and more "we will migrate away" threats. They can't pay everyone to run Windows. *most* users will have to pay, not the other way around
Would it make any difference for an illiterate like you?
From the article, the first paragraph:
The Japanese government is reviewing the possibility of no longer using Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system as part of its plans to boost computer security within the government, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported Saturday.
They won't build anything from scratch, they will use KDE/Linux and will maybe modify some parts of KDE - if at all, it's already done for the most part.
But essentially, you are right. Why should we use unstable, crappy software that runs only on glorified typewriters when we have an OS that runs on everything from mainframes down to embedded systems? Why should we run an insecure and slow OS that runs only on x86, when we already have an OS that runs on almost every CPU in existence?
Standardizing on Linux makes much more sense than standardizing on Windows.
In industrial countries where labour is expensive, like Germany and Japan, Linux is making inroads on desktops and has already marginalized Windows on Servers:
Japan
Germany
For developing countries, the cost of hiring many people to babysit Windows computers is no problem, but where labour cost is high, the switch to Linux can pay off already in the first year.
(Yes I know, that contradicts to Microsoft "Windows-TCO-is-low" propaganda, but so is reality.)
Except Japan, where Microsoft is already dead on servers:
see here
I take this announcement much more seriously than all the announcements from China lately. The Japanese are able and willing to abandon Windows completely - unlike the Chinese.
Did you even read my post?
The facts:
Bill Gates himself goes on a trip to a country that has recently started to develop significant Linux precence including cheap Linux devices for the masses. Bill's action can only be interpreted as an act of desperation.
Slashdot (and unfortunately most Linux communities) have been infected by Microsoft FUD, it's no longer funny:
Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt:
"Hopefully this won't have a large effect on it." (Translation: Whine, whine, whine, I'm so afraid, uncertain and doubtful.) Just read a few more posts, most contain similar statements. Yes, this is FUD by its finest.
By now we have even reached a point where it is no longer allowed to have optimistic points of view. It's considered obscene and strange if you do. When Eric S. Raymond said that Linux will gain massively on cheap computers, he was called crazy, a freak and whatever in the accompanying Slashdot-thread. (Of course Walmart and Gericom have already proven that Linux sells on cheaper computers - of course nobody realized that. When announced, everybody was afraid, doubtful and uncertain about the Linux-PC's success. (Would Walmart really sell a losing product for over half a year? Would Walmart extend their commitment twice? - They went from clean PCs to Lindows-preloaded, then later added Mandrake.))
Currently we live in a situation where almost everybody, even many Linux-supporters spread FUD (in the literal sense: "Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt") about Linux.
Such massive anti-propaganda would have killed almost any commercial product within only few years. Would anybody buy Windows when Bill Gates would constantly say stuff like: "Hopefully Torvald's speech on Linux-Expo won't have a large effect on our sales"? Of course not.
The FACT that despite this hostile environment, KDE/Linux is not only surviving but growing - in terms of development as well as in terms of marketshare, is the biggest proof that Linux is here not only to stay but also to become the standard platform on all mainstream computing markets within this decade.
The sad part is that most slashdotters don't seem to realize what they are doing - that they are spreading anti-Linux FUD.
Or to put it in another way: The FUD spread by Bill Gates in India (or anywhere else) can't be worse than the FUD spread by Linux-supporters on slashdot (or elsewhere).
If I wanted pencil and paper, I would use pencil and paper.
Tell the guy to use StarOffice/OpenOffice, in case of a crash it restores all open documents, so no data loss. (And it did this for years)
What's the problem with that?