So, my father, who's computer did not come with Office but came with MS Works, should go out and spend another $400 on Office so he can open one email attachment
Does he have Win98, Win2k, WinME or WinXP? If so, he has a copy of WordPad (start => programs => accessories => wordpad.
Wordpad will allow you to CREATE, OPEN, EDIT and SAVE MSWord files.
How the hell did you learn about computers unless you had access to them?
Great point, and if I had any mod points....
Yes it's true, 95% of all/. readers were given (or bought) a computer at some time; probably when they were young, and started by playing around with MS-DOS, then graduating to either windows or linux. Most even became great system administrators or programmers.
BUT; these people make up maybe 1% (if that) of the people that use computers; the rest of the population that uses computers see them as a tool to get a job done.
Be it typing a word doc, using a spreadsheet or just playing games, these people don't want to have to know how to use a computer; just how to get their job done.
So whilst it is true that 1% of those that get these free computers will go on to actually learn about them and become great systems admins or coders, the argument is what OS to put on the computers for the MAJORITY.
I think you will agree that the majorty does not want to have to worry about the intracies(sp?) of linux.
Click on "Start" button to shut down machine is not intuitive or "easy
I've heard this "start button to shut down != intuitive" bullshit time and time again.
Think about it logicaly for a second. When you turn on your computer and get a desktop for the first time. The only thing you have is a few "my computer" type icons and a start button. So you click on the start button. You discover that it brings up a ment with lots of options. You start reading these options, and supprise supprise, you find that shutdown is the first option. BANG! - You have just learnt how to shut down the computer. If you didn't, not to worry, because you will soon learn that start is your "menu for all".
Using the above concept, how user friendly would this system be if "start" was replaced by a picture of a apple, or a foot or a "KDE"? -
BUT, if you are still not convenced, just hit the power button, power management will take care of the rest on a windows system and give you a graceful shutdown.
) What's the former experience of the trainee? If they've used Windows mostly, they'll be used to Windows
I think you just won the argument for rolling out windows.
Because windows accounts for approx 95% of all desktops out there, statisticly, these people have a better chance of aleady using windows the linux in the past. Hence windows is more likely to be fimilar, and therefor easer to use.
A don't forget the plan is to provide the less fortunate with a pc to me, less fortunate probably means less educated as much as anything (generally speaking); would these people seriously use a linux pc?
Don't get me wrong, I love linux, but it's not for everyone YET
Thanks for the link, but Boo's to MS because the data sheet is non-existant and the download isn't there (after registering bogus passport crap). Don't know if it's me. I just get thier bloated 404 file not found.
I actually downloaded the thing around 6 months ago, before you needed a passport rego, BUT, the 450 odd MEG of download was corrupt!
. Just let moderators mark it however they want, and then let people choose whatever values they want to assign to it.
Ok, WAY off-the articals topic, but in keeping wiht your post, the friend/foe system; in my prefs I've said to give a -4 to all my foes, and Klerk is a foe, but BUT, Klerks posts are still readable; I thought anything at -2 and below become invisable?
If you use destilled water it doesn't conduct and you should be fine, even IF it leaks
You will have to do better then distilled water. I beleive its actually the salts and ions in the water that make it conduct, but because water is a very good solvent, these salts tend to be hard to remove properly, and hence, even distilled water conducts.
In Australia you need to be a registered company with an ABN to purchase a.com.au, this forces most Australian businesses to register o/s to get.com names
What a crock of shit! - You only need a registered business name, which costs around $au70 - and anyone can get one.
The company that I work for has a few dozzen business names used to register domain names with aunic.
You forgot the most important word ever to come out of Australia - FOSTERS;-)
ok Ok, I'm about to give you the most important bit of information ever, if you are going to visit Australia that is.
The pubs in australia sell 'fosters' - but its not the same as export 'fosters', the fosters that you buy o/s is actaully our Crown Larger, just repackaged
If you buy 'fosters' at an aussie bar, you will be served something that tastes like cats piss.
Australia's largest telco, Telstra has a nice monopoly over the entire ADSL market.
Actually Rob, whilst Telstra has a monopoly over the local loop, they don't have a monopoly over ADSL as such. At work, we have a connection through Connexus, the service is awsome. We really have only had one significant outage, (this was when a Telstra tech accidently pulled the wrong card out of the exchange, and knocked us offline for a week - NOT happy Jan!) - There is also no filtering - this is because you pay per mb over your monthly allowance, which seems to be a good way to go.
There are several other people out there doing ADSL in.au
We are currently testing this server with our ISP in.AU (can't tell you who because of NDA) - We surfing is a little slower then our DSL service, but still a great user experience compared to dial up. Latency is not detectable. Currently downloading at around 90k/sec over the link.
So then there should be efforts somewhere on writing really good documentation
More importantly then this, there needs to be a ceneral resource with all of this good linux documentation in it.
Google is nice, but can lead to having to wade through out-of-date information.
Microsoft have msdn, technet and the knowlage base, and these are all great resources. Linux needs something similar, so when you have a question you have one place to go, and you know you will get a resonable answer.
But you're right. I get answers faster through IRC and/or USENET posts than though MS tech support almost every time
My $0.02 - We had a problem with Services For Mac on a win2k server - it was causing the SYSTEM process to go to 100% and stay there. Logged a call, paid the $200. - Got first level support on the phone withing in 10 minutes - Useless as tits on a bull. They basicly search the KB for you. - Then the problem was escalated to regional support.
Got a phone call from a guy called Leon Booth @ microsoft regional support, and he was FANTASTIC! - Got a direct phone number @ e-mail to use for communicating with him for the length of this problem.
To cut a long story short, 2 days later still no success, so we started monitoring thread creation calls (they send some utilities to do this) - Leon sent this to the guys that wrote the services for mac service, they suggested a registry hack, which actaully fixed the problem.
Our support guy was saying that if it did not fix the problem the MS would send a tech out with a debug box? (a box that sits next to our server and traces every call), and send the results to the US for analysis - all for the $200. Now try and get that service from a guy at the end of IRC!
Anyway, Leon organised a refund of the $200 support charge because it was deamed a 'bug'
Have you ever called a paid support line and been told "We don't have a fix for that problem handy, however, if you'd like to upgrade to our platinum support package, I could...blah...blah...blah...[Insert Sales Pitch Here]"?
You OBVIOUSLY have never called MS support
From here: Free Support:
Assisted support is provided free of charge for bugs, documentation errors and installation problems according to the following definitions
These days, you can get a click-n-drool package from Mandrake that lets you clicka-clicka your way to setting up a webserver, a mail server, a SQL database, an office desktop, whatever
The Mandrake install still manages to fuck things up. I've got the Mandrake 8 install, tried to put it on a HP Omnibook 4150 laptop (PII-300, 256mb ram), it took my 2 days of fucking around with a video driver to get X to work - eventually worked out that I needed to fuck with Xconfigurator a bit more.
Linix still has a LONG LONG LONG way to go before even coming close to Windows usability.
IMHO, Microsoft has gotten it right, attract the largest userbase possable with an easy to use OS, with heaps to worthless features then work on stability. As apposed to Linux, which is the other way around.
Yes, but once you've installed it for testing purposes, you've accepted the license agreement and can't take it back anymore.
Gee, the/. community really has a problem thinking outside the square...
Open the package, BURN the CD, return the software, then install the software from the burnt CD. You have NOT accepted any EULA until you actaully install the software. Then again, I could just be talking out of my ass.
Think about the return policies that most stores have with regards to software - "It it's opened, we won't take it back."
Their return policy is not even relivent. The EULA on 99% of software says that if you do not agree to the conditions of the EULA then you are entitled to take the software back.
From the back of the SQL Server 7.0 box You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptyly return the product for a refund.
I have returned many a Microsoft product for full refunds based on this.
Actualy, the guy that invented visual basic. Happens to be one of the richest men in the world.
Visual Basic is used by thousands of organisations around the world use it, and thousands of programmers make a lot of money by providing real world solutions, written in visual basic to real world problems.
There are many computing/business problems out there that C/C++/Linux is simply overkill.
I'm glad that your ability to program in c/c++/whatever gives you a high self-esteem, but why don't you take your illusions of grandure and shove them up your ass.
The Linux software RAID gives me the reliability - I've inadvertently tested it when a power connector popped loose from one of the hard drives - I didn't even notice until I read the kernel log (for a different reason).
This is SO dangerous. RAID systems must be setup to e-mail an admin, jump up and down and scream when they loose a volume. Imagine the HDD actually failed, and you missed the lines in your syslog (or worse still, didn't read your syslog). Two weeks later a second drive goes. All of a sudden you have no data left.
I've seen this so many times on 'set and forget' windows instalations.
Needed for Linux: 1) Easier installation and configuration. 2) Better documentation
3. Nice deployment tools, like Microsoft's Remote Installation Services, where a brand new computer with a bootable network card (or boot disk) can be booted up, press F12 and an entire pre-configured workstation image is downloaded and installed on the workstation. Complete with Office, etc, etc. Workstation hardware independent as well. (the image can be for a SMP machine and the workstation a non SMP machine).
Or group policy with inteliMirror, where workstations upon bootup can download and apply the latest office service pack (bug fixes, whatever) from a centeral server.
We are deploying this technology at the moment and it is VERY cool.
Slashdot Mirror
So, my father, who's computer did not come with Office but came with MS Works, should go out and spend another $400 on Office so he can open one email attachment
Does he have Win98, Win2k, WinME or WinXP? If so, he has a copy of WordPad (start => programs => accessories => wordpad.
Wordpad will allow you to CREATE, OPEN, EDIT and SAVE MSWord files.
How the hell did you learn about computers unless you had access to them?
Great point, and if I had any mod points....
Yes it's true, 95% of all /. readers were given (or bought) a computer at some time; probably when they were young, and started by playing around with MS-DOS, then graduating to either windows or linux. Most even became great system administrators or programmers.
BUT; these people make up maybe 1% (if that) of the people that use computers; the rest of the population that uses computers see them as a tool to get a job done.
Be it typing a word doc, using a spreadsheet or just playing games, these people don't want to have to know how to use a computer; just how to get their job done.
So whilst it is true that 1% of those that get these free computers will go on to actually learn about them and become great systems admins or coders, the argument is what OS to put on the computers for the MAJORITY.
I think you will agree that the majorty does not want to have to worry about the intracies(sp?) of linux.
Click on "Start" button to shut down machine is not intuitive or "easy
I've heard this "start button to shut down != intuitive" bullshit time and time again.
Think about it logicaly for a second. When you turn on your computer and get a desktop for the first time. The only thing you have is a few "my computer" type icons and a start button. So you click on the start button. You discover that it brings up a ment with lots of options. You start reading these options, and supprise supprise, you find that shutdown is the first option. BANG! - You have just learnt how to shut down the computer. If you didn't, not to worry, because you will soon learn that start is your "menu for all".
Using the above concept, how user friendly would this system be if "start" was replaced by a picture of a apple, or a foot or a "KDE"? -
BUT, if you are still not convenced, just hit the power button, power management will take care of the rest on a windows system and give you a graceful shutdown.
) What's the former experience of the trainee? If they've used Windows mostly, they'll be used to Windows
I think you just won the argument for rolling out windows.
Because windows accounts for approx 95% of all desktops out there, statisticly, these people have a better chance of aleady using windows the linux in the past. Hence windows is more likely to be fimilar, and therefor easer to use.
A don't forget the plan is to provide the less fortunate with a pc to me, less fortunate probably means less educated as much as anything (generally speaking); would these people seriously use a linux pc?
Don't get me wrong, I love linux, but it's not for everyone YET
for linux on the desktop, and equality in technology, if only they would use linux.
Don't get me wrong, linux is a great OS, BUT do you seriously think it's ready for deploying on a large scale as a general desktop?
What about apps?
Thanks for the link, but Boo's to MS because the data sheet is non-existant and the download isn't there (after registering bogus passport crap). Don't know if it's me. I just get thier bloated 404 file not found.
I actually downloaded the thing around 6 months ago, before you needed a passport rego, BUT, the 450 odd MEG of download was corrupt!
BUT - You can get the SDK on CD, which I puchased (around $30au). Try here http://developerstore.com/devstore/product.asp?pro ductID=7516&store=Toolbox_INTL
. Just let moderators mark it however they want, and then let people choose whatever values they want to assign to it.
Ok, WAY off-the articals topic, but in keeping wiht your post, the friend/foe system; in my prefs I've said to give a -4 to all my foes, and Klerk is a foe, but BUT, Klerks posts are still readable; I thought anything at -2 and below become invisable?
"Well it looks like AOL jumped right in and fixed that pesky hole. We can all go back to speculating how insecure it is now
Michael seems to think that anything that is not open source has to be insecure.
If you use destilled water it doesn't conduct and you should be fine, even IF it leaks
You will have to do better then distilled water. I beleive its actually the salts and ions in the water that make it conduct, but because water is a very good solvent, these salts tend to be hard to remove properly, and hence, even distilled water conducts.
In Australia you need to be a registered company with an ABN to purchase a .com.au, this forces most Australian businesses to register o/s to get .com names
What a crock of shit! - You only need a registered business name, which costs around $au70 - and anyone can get one.
The company that I work for has a few dozzen business names used to register domain names with aunic.
You forgot the most important word ever to come out of Australia - FOSTERS ;-)
ok Ok, I'm about to give you the most important bit of information ever, if you are going to visit Australia that is.
The pubs in australia sell 'fosters' - but its not the same as export 'fosters', the fosters that you buy o/s is actaully our Crown Larger, just repackaged
If you buy 'fosters' at an aussie bar, you will be served something that tastes like cats piss.
You have been warned.
Australia's largest telco, Telstra has a nice monopoly over the entire ADSL market.
Actually Rob, whilst Telstra has a monopoly over the local loop, they don't have a monopoly over ADSL as such. At work, we have a connection through Connexus, the service is awsome. We really have only had one significant outage, (this was when a Telstra tech accidently pulled the wrong card out of the exchange, and knocked us offline for a week - NOT happy Jan!) - There is also no filtering - this is because you pay per mb over your monthly allowance, which seems to be a good way to go.
There are several other people out there doing ADSL in .au
We are currently testing this server with our ISP in .AU (can't tell you who because of NDA) - We surfing is a little slower then our DSL service, but still a great user experience compared to dial up. Latency is not detectable. Currently downloading at around 90k/sec over the link.
It's making hacks.mit.edu [mit.edu] server disappear...
Don't worry, you are not missing out on much - its just a yellow banner with red text placed around the dome.
They could at least have used mirror gold banner material.
So then there should be efforts somewhere on writing really good documentation
More importantly then this, there needs to be a ceneral resource with all of this good linux documentation in it.
Google is nice, but can lead to having to wade through out-of-date information.
Microsoft have msdn, technet and the knowlage base, and these are all great resources. Linux needs something similar, so when you have a question you have one place to go, and you know you will get a resonable answer.
But you're right. I get answers faster through IRC and/or USENET posts than though MS tech support almost every time
My $0.02 - We had a problem with Services For Mac on a win2k server - it was causing the SYSTEM process to go to 100% and stay there. Logged a call, paid the $200. - Got first level support on the phone withing in 10 minutes - Useless as tits on a bull. They basicly search the KB for you. - Then the problem was escalated to regional support.
Got a phone call from a guy called Leon Booth @ microsoft regional support, and he was FANTASTIC! - Got a direct phone number @ e-mail to use for communicating with him for the length of this problem.
To cut a long story short, 2 days later still no success, so we started monitoring thread creation calls (they send some utilities to do this) - Leon sent this to the guys that wrote the services for mac service, they suggested a registry hack, which actaully fixed the problem.
Our support guy was saying that if it did not fix the problem the MS would send a tech out with a debug box? (a box that sits next to our server and traces every call), and send the results to the US for analysis - all for the $200. Now try and get that service from a guy at the end of IRC!
Anyway, Leon organised a refund of the $200 support charge because it was deamed a 'bug'
Have you ever called a paid support line and been told "We don't have a fix for that problem handy, however, if you'd like to upgrade to our platinum support package, I could...blah...blah...blah...[Insert Sales Pitch Here]"?
You OBVIOUSLY have never called MS support
From here:
Free Support: Assisted support is provided free of charge for bugs, documentation errors and installation problems according to the following definitions
it looks like it's a mysql limit they are hitting.
Just goes to prove you only get what you pay for. MySQL = Free = shit.
These days, you can get a click-n-drool package from Mandrake that lets you clicka-clicka your way to setting up a webserver, a mail server, a SQL database, an office desktop, whatever
The Mandrake install still manages to fuck things up. I've got the Mandrake 8 install, tried to put it on a HP Omnibook 4150 laptop (PII-300, 256mb ram), it took my 2 days of fucking around with a video driver to get X to work - eventually worked out that I needed to fuck with Xconfigurator a bit more.
Linix still has a LONG LONG LONG way to go before even coming close to Windows usability.
IMHO, Microsoft has gotten it right, attract the largest userbase possable with an easy to use OS, with heaps to worthless features then work on stability. As apposed to Linux, which is the other way around.
Yes, but once you've installed it for testing purposes, you've accepted the license agreement and can't take it back anymore.
Gee, the /. community really has a problem thinking outside the square...
Open the package, BURN the CD, return the software, then install the software from the burnt CD. You have NOT accepted any EULA until you actaully install the software.
Then again, I could just be talking out of my ass.
Think about the return policies that most stores have with regards to software - "It it's opened, we won't take it back."
Their return policy is not even relivent. The EULA on 99% of software says that if you do not agree to the conditions of the EULA then you are entitled to take the software back.
From the back of the SQL Server 7.0 box
You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptyly return the product for a refund.
I have returned many a Microsoft product for full refunds based on this.
you invented Visual Basic?
Actualy, the guy that invented visual basic. Happens to be one of the richest men in the world.
Visual Basic is used by thousands of organisations around the world use it, and thousands of programmers make a lot of money by providing real world solutions, written in visual basic to real world problems.
There are many computing/business problems out there that C/C++/Linux is simply overkill.
I'm glad that your ability to program in c/c++/whatever gives you a high self-esteem, but why don't you take your illusions of grandure and shove them up your ass.
Your give the /. and linux community a bad name.
BTW - No, I'm not a vb programmer.
The Linux software RAID gives me the reliability - I've inadvertently tested it when a power connector popped loose from one of the hard drives - I didn't even notice until I read the kernel log (for a different reason).
This is SO dangerous. RAID systems must be setup to e-mail an admin, jump up and down and scream when they loose a volume. Imagine the HDD actually failed, and you missed the lines in your syslog (or worse still, didn't read your syslog). Two weeks later a second drive goes. All of a sudden you have no data left.
I've seen this so many times on 'set and forget' windows instalations.
Needed for Linux: 1) Easier installation and configuration. 2) Better documentation
3. Nice deployment tools, like Microsoft's Remote Installation Services, where a brand new computer with a bootable network card (or boot disk) can be booted up, press F12 and an entire pre-configured workstation image is downloaded and installed on the workstation. Complete with Office, etc, etc. Workstation hardware independent as well. (the image can be for a SMP machine and the workstation a non SMP machine).
Or group policy with inteliMirror, where workstations upon bootup can download and apply the latest office service pack (bug fixes, whatever) from a centeral server.
We are deploying this technology at the moment and it is VERY cool.