Mod me up, mode me down but I still have to ask: Where did you pick up this extremely stupid piece of vocabulary: "Is it sustainable...?" This is exactly how the ecosocialist green Agenda 200X crowd of nature loving manhaters would put it as you will find them continually moaning over pretty much anything: "Yes, but tell me, is it sustainable? is it REALLY sustainable??"...
Well putting it into the pseudoscientific Sierra Club way of doubletalk: Yes! Mozilla is highly sustainable and part of a new highly sustainable approach to an economy where everybody profits.
Tell you all what: I hope they are raking in millions.
"Housed at Sandia National Laboratories, the Z machine attracted a lot of attention eight years ago when its energy output more than quadrupled - raising hopes that the reactions in the Z could provide a new source of clean, abundant power. To help further progress towards this end, the machine is getting a $61.7 million upgrade, officials announced recently."
If you ask me that sounds like the Z-Machine did that eight years before ago.
Yes... but the "report" still doesn't give a really good reason why we shouldn't be building new nuclear power plants... One thing to keep in mind... The "Sustainable" crowd is all about low energy in the first place as turning down the juice turns down lifestyle and demand thus - according to their brand of science - overall reducing carbon emissions. This coming from a bunch of people wanting at first to take the beef off people's plates and who bitched and moaned about methane emissions by cow farts... It figures, doesn't it?
> And disregarding somebody based on his ethnicity is A-OK?
Recognizing the differences between the various races of the species of man is not disregarding the individuals. Actually, we should capitalize on the natural distinctions between men to give and take from each according to his or her abilities.
> "stuff about the holocaust"
I agree this far that stifling thought, deliberation and research about the Holocaust is counter-productive. I'm not going to allow myself to be prosecuted for Article 130 of the German Penalcode which is why I wont discuss this further.
>stuff about ying yang
>You know, if white is sane and black is bat-shit-insane I'd rather be clear in the white.
Oh please spare me another spoonful of canned opinion, will you! One wonders why people like you are always so painfully predictable? First off, nobody has a problem with people qualifying for ethnic German status, least of all the extreme right right. You will be extremely surprised to note how even the farthest fringe of the extreme right has evolved into an international community. Few and far in-between is the - I must say - cretin who will disregard an individual only based on a passport fate has dealt him.
That out of the way, let's take a look at why you lump WW2 in together with what a documentary on ABC in the late 70s called "The Holocaust" evolved to and add a few facist pigs to round things off. Let's take a look at teach in turn.
WW2 was inevitable the day the so-called "Treaty of Versailles", was forced upon the Reich both by France and by proxy by Britain. The nearly complete demilitarization and economic destruction of the Reich along with the occupation of the Saare territory the contract entailed was the severest blow possible to German prosperity and self-esteem. Looking at it from this angle, WW2 and German expansionism is then little surprising. If anything however came as a surprise in WW2 then it was the leniency with which the Reich dealt with former Foes like the french, in full accordance with the vision of a pan-Germanic Europe. Hundreds of thousands of true volunteers from France, Belgium, the Netherlands and many other European countries followed Germany's call to arms and served in the Wehrmacht or the SS. Peace was offered to the British over and over culminating in Rudolf Hess's heroic flight across the channel for a last ditch attempt at peace, yet no matter what, the British were determined to destroy any opposition to their interests in Europe once and for all. Thanks to Churchill, Truman, Stalin and later Eisenhower WW2 turned into a butcherhouse beyond comparison as most of the casualties in WW2 were ethnic Germans - as you yourself have noted - no matter what their nationality was.
As far as the Holocaust is concerned, I wont go into that very much because of late many of its detractors have been sentenced or are still standing in front of German courts for their research. Staying this side of legality let me say this much: It is an odd truth that requires the hand of the law to steady itself when it should be able to stand by itself.
Last but not least that leaves us with your fascist pigs. Socialism, regardless whether it is marketed under the label of Fascism or National-socialism, is a demeaning Weltanschauung that devaluates and degrades the indivual. Those who advocate it, no doubt hope to find themselves in a later position of power in the party.
So you see, mein Bester, few people who think things through side with the extremes of an issue. Let me lead out by citing Terence McKenna (while discussing a Yin-yang symbol): It's not the White and it's not the black, it's the interspace, the edge that is the most interesting.
From the article:
To cite just one example, a recent survey of pension policyholders in the United Kingdom found that 75 percent would leave their current provider if they experienced bad customer service.
So all that really means is that we would have to see we acquire more customers out of the 25% put-up-with-bad-service segment and lower our service to the absolute minimum that customer base will still tolerate. Let's let our competitors deal with the 75% customers that are touchy and demanding.
You know what I never understood - how can anyone hate their own country so much? Legally I am a foreigner when in Germany but as a Volksdeutscher (ethnic German) I have seen and felt love for that certain beauty that surrounds both country and people. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of people like you - but deep down in your hearts there's a huge cauldron of pure seethingly hot hatred and very little else. You want to fill our streets with whatever both fate and purpose desire to drop off at the borders and hand them the keys to our homes and property, all in the name of some highly self abusing future multicultural utopia. Habe recht vielen Dank, Nestbeschmutzer, aber wir haben eine andere Vorstellung von der Zukunft Deutschlands.
Sure M$ is a big company, sure they make a ton of money, sure you think they're evil, but they still have a right to equal protection under the law. It's for the same reason we tried Nazi war criminals before punishing them; Why we try Saddan before killing him. I'm not sure who's right or wrong, but they've got a right to be treated fairly.
You know, that kind of naivety disgusts me. First of all, the so-called "International Military Tribunal" in Nuremberg was the same kind of farce as the "Court" they're trying Saddam Hussein in. There's a word in German for a travesty like that and that is "Siegerjustiz" - the justice dealt out by the victor. It would have been just to have hanged Churchhill right next to Ribbentrop for turning down the peace offer that was relayed by Rudolf Hess, Arthur Harris the commander of the RAF next to Streicher for ordering the thousand bomber air strikes against Dresden, Cologne, Pforzheim etc. killing at least a million of innocent civilians and Eisenhower next to Kaltenbrunner for ordering hundreds of thousands German POWs to be systematically starved and withheld water and medication until they died in the Rheinwiesen camps.
No kid, working with "Microsoft technologies" is like wrapping rubber bands around your balls until it make you giggle. No good has ever come of that and it may even make you unfertile. These so-called "Technologies" (Technologies??) are some of the lousiest, zero-fun ways of self-castration as well as to waste time. money, motivation and good wil. Big bucks businesses all use AIX and Solaris for the important stuff. The only thing you're right about is: The IT-Scene moves fast, so if you want to - as you put it - "go far" in this world, start by checking out Solaris 10!
I tend to agree with most what you say but especially with the IG Farben of telecommunications you downplay corporate greed. Did you know that Deutsche Telekom charges their DSL subscribers extra when they want to use their own email rather than the @t-online.de address they are automatically assigned? Yes! Unless you pay them extra, no matter what sender address you wish to use, mail going through their smtp server gets it sender address substituted with your @tonline.de address. With that kind of thinking it will only be a matter of time until they block all outgoing traffic on port tcp/25 (smtp) and charge you twice as much not to fiddle with your sender address.
The most obvious solution to the last mile bottleneck of course is IEEE 802.16 "WiMax". a high-bandwidth wireless network designed especially with getting through on the last mile in mind. Besides being a threat to the last mile cash cow it also competes with telco high-bandwidth wireless services such as UMTS phone and data.
What a bunch of tripe bullshit. Voting doesn't change anything especially nowadays with Diebold voting machines and Florida recounts. Here. Let me take you back into Federation Highschool civic class (Starship Trooper II Hero of the Federation):
Student: "My mother says violence never solves anything!" Teacher: "Oh Really? You, what do you think the city fathers of Hiroshima would say about that?" Student2: "I think they wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed!" Teacher: "Correct. Violence has resolved more issues throughout history than any other factor. People who forget that always pay".
Right. It's just another Hollywood movie but those are the three minutes of gold in it. If you want change then you _will_ have to get your hands _bloody_. History is full of examples of this, from 9000 BCE to 2006 CE. Do you think the English would have held votes in 1776?
If I was part of the EC, and saw that a company was trying to make this kind of case into a witch hunt, i'd be pissed, and I think MS is going to feel the hammer (garvel) after this one.
After Microsoft "feels" the hammer, they get the sickle. We tend to forget that the EU is socialist.
You posted links. Excuse me for not being awed by your presentation however pretty it might be. I maintain that "academic dishonesty" (how politically correct can you get when we're talking fraud here?) is rampant in research. Now what do we do...?...?
You go great lengths then to show your disgust. Which is fine with me actually, because I have made
my point and that still stands. It looks like there isn't anything really new forthcoming so I suggest
we call it a day. Until slashdot decides to carry another environmental story... au revoir.
I'm still recommending that people examine your claims and theories taking into account the perspective I've
given in the previous part of the thread. At this point I just note that you seem to be extremely upset
over this or you wouldn't get personal with me.
I will predict that googles stock will fall when they get busted over the head by the feds own courts for not disclosing search data. That's a no-brainer just like predicting that winters will tend to be colder rather than warmer for a certain region. I suppose as long as Earth's axis is tilted and retards get to be presidents this will be true for a very very long time. Having dealt with your prediction here let's take another look at your Epica challenge...
A question right on the top of my mind... why are you defending the CO2 models so vehemently? What's your stake in them? Personally in my career I've met a lot of people hell-bent on producing (desired) results and the CO2 camp is well funded because it has become a political tool and corruption is certainly not unheard of in research. An "Epica challenge" competition held by the like-minded (and above all like funded) is a little to self-serving, don't you think?
At this point I will leave it up to the reader to decide what to believe. I don't want to trump your "Epica 8 Team coinciding result" card because I wasn't there as a witness and thus can't point to any foul-play, but anybody following the thread all the way to here will always know there's another side to the equation to consider - which really is all I set out to achieve tonight.
Sorting through the article we find that some more raw data has been recovered from Antarctica. However... tweaking the model that it will fit past data still wont allow them to chart the future. Something that can't even be achieved for
in comparison ""relatively simple"" systems like the financial markets they expect to achieve for a far more complex and
unknown system. That damming criticism up front and then regarding the so-called "EPICA challenge"... so they weeded out
a couple of teams whose bets on the extended vostok data were way too far off while allowing the winning teams to fine
tune their models to the new extended data set. We all know to what impressive lengths people will go to in order to secure
funding...
If the scientists interpretation prove accurate... pretty iffy, isn't it, Paua but I didn't refer to the article because I wanted to give equal time to the CO2 camp. The really interesting thing about that article however is that not so long ago (in the blink of Mother Gaia's eye:-):-) ) this planet had so little to do with present day Earth, people arriving there today would probably rather consider having been transported to the other end of the Galaxy than through time. Like I was saying in my posting before, humankind's notion of what should be normal on this planet is probably just an infinitesimal fraction of what this world has been through ever since life took hold on it. If during the millions of years other intelligent species had developed they would have probably call a much hotter and far more oxygenated version of earth "normal" (and been equally dismayed at the inavoidable slide into an ice age).
Whatever conjecture on what might have been.. or might once be: during all this discussion it is important to keep in mind:
- We don't really know what's normal on this planet because we've not been around for very long.
- "The" global warming people are not decided on the causes of global warming yet. In fact, some scientists have begun talking about another ice age (global cooling).
- Those in the global warming camp are divided into the greenhouse gas vs. extraordinay solar activity camps. Some claim it's a combination of the two.
- The global cooling people claim that reducing CO2 / greenhouse gas levels will only hasten the onset of the coming ice age.
- Politicians (and the powers that be behind them) love the greenhouse gas version best because it gives them excuses for social reforms.
There's not a hell of a lot of science behind the "climate systems" mainly because there is not
a hell of a lot of hard fact. Climatic models may well be good enough for forecasting the weather
two or three days into the future but that is the state of the art. The models you are talking about
are based on theories and having theories is what _these_ scientist get paid for. Up to now a CO2
based doomsday theory was a sure winner but nowadays the market is too saturated creating openings
for solar-CO2 hybrids or pure solar theories, computer models and research inclusive.
Warmer than a Hot Tub: Atlantic Ocean Temperatures Much Higher - Scientists have found evidence that tropical Atlantic Ocean temperatures may have once reached 107F (42C)--about 25F (14C) higher than ocean temperatures today and warmer than a hot tub.
Ooops.. and that was normal back then? With oceans like that how much ice do you think was floating in them?
Mike Flaugher: It is my personal belief that with the beginning of Sunspot Cycle 23, we MAY be entering into a period of climate disturbance similar to that in the early 1800's, and POSSIBLY like that of the three major disturbances of the last millennium, the Wolf, Sporer and Maunder Minimums. The latter possibility we will not know with certainty for several decades. Solar Cycle 23, however, appears at this time poised to begin a major downshift in solar levels which may well cause reactions in the stratosphere and, through mechanisms now being studied as illustrated in some of the articles above, a series of reactions in the lower atmosphere. I believe that the manifestation of these changes may soon be felt as a shifting of weather patterns of moisture, dryness, and temperature.
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research. Dr Sami Solanki, the director of the renowned Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Gottingen, Germany, who led the research, said: "The Sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.
"The Sun is in a changed state. It is brighter than it was a few hundred years ago and this brightening started relatively recently - in the last 100 to 150 years."
The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) or Medieval Climate Optimum was an unusually warm period during the European Medieval period, lasting from about the 10th century to about the 14th century. It has been argued a better name would be the Medieval Climatic Anomaly. The MWP is often involved in contentious discussions of global warming and the greenhouse effect.
Ooops. We've obviously already have been there - much to the chagrin of one or the other faction trying to justify social change by predicting dire climatic consequences. These factions - as the Wikipedia goes on - of course are hard at work trying to find ways to paint the current warming trend as something novel and unique even in view of literally rock-solid past evidence. The Wikipedia is another btw another good starting point for the debate between the global cooling/warming factions and the CO2 doomsday prophets.
Some more warming in timeframe of 9000 to 5000 years B.P (Before present, before 1950 CE that is):
The Holocene Climate Optimum was a warm period during roughly the interval 9,000 to 5,000 years B.P.. This event has also been known by many other names, including: Hypisthermal, Altithermal, Climatic Optimum, Holocene Optimum, Holocene Thermal Maximum, and Holocene Megathermal.
Maybe they resolve the day the googlebot swings by, maybe they wont, you can't take that behavior for granted. Google has a certain vision of a content rich internet at the expense of content providers and they're not shy to police it either, if you remember what just happened to BMW for fooling around with the google bot. You're right about ARIN etc. having the last word on the ownership of an address but first of all, looking up all the information is tedious at best and your use of it is most likely outside the scope of the license you are provided the information under and then it still isn't guaranteed to be correct (it might be off a day or two between updates, how can you tell?). Of course, by all means try your luck and once in a while drop by and tell us how you're doing.
Few sites even dare think about turning down the googlebot. I don't know google's address ranges
at the moment without looking. Do you? They could add new address space any day and you wouldn't
be the wiser - you'd notice only when it's already too late and your page is no longer listed on
google.
Slashdot Mirror
What an eloquent reply. I stand rebuked.
Mod me up, mode me down but I still have to ask: Where did you pick up this extremely stupid piece of vocabulary: "Is it sustainable...?" This is exactly how the ecosocialist green Agenda 200X crowd of nature loving manhaters would put it as you will find them continually moaning over pretty much anything: "Yes, but tell me, is it sustainable? is it REALLY sustainable??"... Well putting it into the pseudoscientific Sierra Club way of doubletalk: Yes! Mozilla is highly sustainable and part of a new highly sustainable approach to an economy where everybody profits. Tell you all what: I hope they are raking in millions.
"It has been a purely intellectual war, but one that is often driven by motives from above that are far more violent."
Oh really. I wonder how many times a cipher was broken by first breaking the senders bones and then asking questions?
Look at this
"Housed at Sandia National Laboratories, the Z machine attracted a lot of attention eight years ago when its energy output more than quadrupled - raising hopes that the reactions in the Z could provide a new source of clean, abundant power. To help further progress towards this end, the machine is getting a $61.7 million upgrade, officials announced recently."
If you ask me that sounds like the Z-Machine did that eight years before ago.
Yes... but the "report" still doesn't give a really good reason why we shouldn't be building new nuclear power plants... One thing to keep in mind... The "Sustainable" crowd is all about low energy in the first place as turning down the juice turns down lifestyle and demand thus - according to their brand of science - overall reducing carbon emissions. This coming from a bunch of people wanting at first to take the beef off people's plates and who bitched and moaned about methane emissions by cow farts... It figures, doesn't it?
> And disregarding somebody based on his ethnicity is A-OK?
Recognizing the differences between the various races of the species of man is not disregarding the individuals.
Actually, we should capitalize on the natural distinctions between men to give and take from each according to
his or her abilities.
> "stuff about the holocaust"
I agree this far that stifling thought, deliberation and research about the Holocaust is counter-productive. I'm not
going to allow myself to be prosecuted for Article 130 of the German Penalcode which is why I wont discuss this further.
>stuff about ying yang
>You know, if white is sane and black is bat-shit-insane I'd rather be clear in the white.
I guess you didn't get what McKenna was saying.
Oh please spare me another spoonful of canned opinion, will you! One wonders why people like you are always so painfully predictable? First off, nobody has a problem with people qualifying for ethnic German status, least of all the extreme right right. You will be extremely surprised to note how even the farthest fringe of the extreme right has evolved into an international community. Few and far in-between is the - I must say - cretin who will disregard an individual only based on a passport fate has dealt him.
That out of the way, let's take a look at why you lump WW2 in together with what a documentary on ABC in the late 70s called "The Holocaust" evolved to and add a few facist pigs to round things off. Let's take a look at teach in turn.
WW2 was inevitable the day the so-called "Treaty of Versailles", was forced upon the Reich both by France and by proxy by Britain. The nearly complete demilitarization and economic destruction of the Reich along with the occupation of the Saare territory the contract entailed was the severest blow possible to German prosperity and self-esteem. Looking at it from this angle, WW2 and German expansionism is then little surprising. If anything however came as a surprise in WW2 then it was the leniency with which the Reich dealt with former Foes like the french, in full accordance with the vision of a pan-Germanic Europe. Hundreds of thousands of true volunteers from France, Belgium, the Netherlands and many other European countries followed Germany's call to arms and served in the Wehrmacht or the SS. Peace was offered to the British over and over culminating in Rudolf Hess's heroic flight across the channel for a last ditch attempt at peace, yet no matter what, the British were determined to destroy any opposition to their interests in Europe once and for all. Thanks to Churchill, Truman, Stalin and later Eisenhower WW2 turned into a butcherhouse beyond comparison as most of the casualties in WW2 were ethnic Germans - as you yourself have noted - no matter what their nationality was.
As far as the Holocaust is concerned, I wont go into that very much because of late many of its detractors have been sentenced or are still standing in front of German courts for their research. Staying this side of legality let me say this much: It is an odd truth that requires the hand of the law to steady itself when it should be able to stand by itself.
Last but not least that leaves us with your fascist pigs. Socialism, regardless whether it is marketed under the label of Fascism or National-socialism, is a demeaning Weltanschauung that devaluates and degrades the indivual. Those who advocate it, no doubt hope to find themselves in a later position of power in the party.
So you see, mein Bester, few people who think things through side with the extremes of an issue. Let me lead out by citing Terence McKenna (while discussing a Yin-yang symbol): It's not the White and it's not the black, it's the interspace, the edge that is the most interesting.
From the article: To cite just one example, a recent survey of pension policyholders in the United Kingdom found that 75 percent would leave their current provider if they experienced bad customer service. So all that really means is that we would have to see we acquire more customers out of the 25% put-up-with-bad-service segment and lower our service to the absolute minimum that customer base will still tolerate. Let's let our competitors deal with the 75% customers that are touchy and demanding.
You know what I never understood - how can anyone hate their own country so much? Legally I am a foreigner when in Germany but as a Volksdeutscher (ethnic German) I have seen and felt love for that certain beauty that surrounds both country and people. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of people like you - but deep down in your hearts there's a huge cauldron of pure seethingly hot hatred and very little else. You want to fill our streets with whatever both fate and purpose desire to drop off at the borders and hand them the keys to our homes and property, all in the name of some highly self abusing future multicultural utopia. Habe recht vielen Dank, Nestbeschmutzer, aber wir haben eine andere Vorstellung von der Zukunft Deutschlands.
Sure M$ is a big company, sure they make a ton of money, sure you think they're evil, but they still have a right to equal protection under the law. It's for the same reason we tried Nazi war criminals before punishing them; Why we try Saddan before killing him. I'm not sure who's right or wrong, but they've got a right to be treated fairly.
You know, that kind of naivety disgusts me. First of all, the so-called "International Military Tribunal" in Nuremberg was the same kind of farce as the "Court" they're trying Saddam Hussein in. There's a word in German for a travesty like that and that is "Siegerjustiz" - the justice dealt out by the victor. It would have been just to have hanged Churchhill right next to Ribbentrop for turning down the peace offer that was relayed by Rudolf Hess, Arthur Harris the commander of the RAF next to Streicher for ordering the thousand bomber air strikes against Dresden, Cologne, Pforzheim etc. killing at least a million of innocent civilians and Eisenhower next to Kaltenbrunner for ordering hundreds of thousands German POWs to be systematically starved and withheld water and medication until they died in the Rheinwiesen camps.
No kid, working with "Microsoft technologies" is like wrapping rubber bands around your balls until it make you giggle. No good has ever come of that and it may even make you unfertile. These so-called "Technologies" (Technologies??) are some of the lousiest, zero-fun ways of self-castration as well as to waste time. money, motivation and good wil. Big bucks businesses all use AIX and Solaris for the important stuff. The only thing you're right about is: The IT-Scene moves fast, so if you want to - as you put it - "go far" in this world, start by checking out Solaris 10!
I tend to agree with most what you say but especially with the IG Farben of telecommunications you downplay corporate greed. Did you know that Deutsche Telekom charges their DSL subscribers extra when they want to use their own email rather than the @t-online.de address they are automatically assigned? Yes! Unless you pay them extra, no matter what sender address you wish to use, mail going through their smtp server gets it sender address substituted with your @tonline.de address. With that kind of thinking it will only be a matter of time until they block all outgoing traffic on port tcp/25 (smtp) and charge you twice as much not to fiddle with your sender address.
The most obvious solution to the last mile bottleneck of course is IEEE 802.16 "WiMax". a high-bandwidth wireless network designed especially with getting through on the last mile in mind. Besides being a threat to the last mile cash cow it also competes with telco high-bandwidth wireless services such as UMTS phone and data.
What a bunch of tripe bullshit. Voting doesn't change anything especially nowadays with Diebold voting machines and Florida recounts. Here. Let me take you back into Federation Highschool civic class (Starship Trooper II Hero of the Federation):
Student: "My mother says violence never solves anything!"
Teacher: "Oh Really? You, what do you think the city fathers of Hiroshima would say about that?"
Student2: "I think they wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed!"
Teacher: "Correct. Violence has resolved more issues throughout history than any other factor. People who forget that always pay".
Right. It's just another Hollywood movie but those are the three minutes of gold in it. If you want change then you _will_ have to get your hands _bloody_. History is full of examples of this, from 9000 BCE to 2006 CE. Do you think the English would have held votes in 1776?
If I was part of the EC, and saw that a company was trying to make this kind of case into a witch hunt, i'd be pissed, and I think MS is going to feel the hammer (garvel) after this one.
After Microsoft "feels" the hammer, they get the sickle. We tend to forget that the EU is socialist.
You posted links. Excuse me for not being awed by your presentation however pretty it might be. I maintain that "academic dishonesty" (how politically correct can you get when we're talking fraud here?) is rampant in research. Now what do we do...? ...?
Paua do try not to ignore increased solar activity.
You go great lengths then to show your disgust. Which is fine with me actually, because I have made my point and that still stands. It looks like there isn't anything really new forthcoming so I suggest we call it a day. Until slashdot decides to carry another environmental story... au revoir.
I'm still recommending that people examine your claims and theories taking into account the perspective I've given in the previous part of the thread. At this point I just note that you seem to be extremely upset over this or you wouldn't get personal with me.
I will predict that googles stock will fall when they get busted over the head by the feds own courts for not disclosing search data. That's a no-brainer just like predicting that winters will tend to be colder rather than warmer for a certain region. I suppose as long as Earth's axis is tilted and retards get to be presidents this will be true for a very very long time. Having dealt with your prediction here let's take another look at your Epica challenge...
A question right on the top of my mind... why are you defending the CO2 models so vehemently? What's your stake in them? Personally in my career I've met a lot of people hell-bent on producing (desired) results and the CO2 camp is well funded because it has become a political tool and corruption is certainly not unheard of in research. An "Epica challenge" competition held by the like-minded (and above all like funded) is a little to self-serving, don't you think?
At this point I will leave it up to the reader to decide what to believe. I don't want to trump your "Epica 8 Team coinciding result" card because I wasn't there as a witness and thus can't point to any foul-play, but anybody following the thread all the way to here will always know there's another side to the equation to consider - which really is all I set out to achieve tonight.
Regards.
Sorting through the article we find that some more raw data has been recovered from Antarctica. However... tweaking the model that it will fit past data still wont allow them to chart the future. Something that can't even be achieved for in comparison ""relatively simple"" systems like the financial markets they expect to achieve for a far more complex and unknown system. That damming criticism up front and then regarding the so-called "EPICA challenge"... so they weeded out a couple of teams whose bets on the extended vostok data were way too far off while allowing the winning teams to fine tune their models to the new extended data set. We all know to what impressive lengths people will go to in order to secure funding...
If the scientists interpretation prove accurate... pretty iffy, isn't it, Paua but I didn't refer to the article :-):-) ) this planet had so little to do with present day Earth,
because I wanted to give equal time to the CO2 camp. The really interesting thing about that article however is that
not so long ago (in the blink of Mother Gaia's eye
people arriving there today would probably rather consider having been transported to the other end of the Galaxy
than through time. Like I was saying in my posting before, humankind's notion of what should be normal on this planet
is probably just an infinitesimal fraction of what this world has been through ever since life took hold on it.
If during the millions of years other intelligent species had developed they would have probably call a much hotter and
far more oxygenated version of earth "normal" (and been equally dismayed at the inavoidable slide into an ice age).
Whatever conjecture on what might have been.. or might once be: during all this discussion it is important to keep in mind:
- We don't really know what's normal on this planet because we've not been around for very long.
- "The" global warming people are not decided on the causes of global warming yet. In fact, some scientists have begun talking about another ice age (global cooling).
- Those in the global warming camp are divided into the greenhouse gas vs. extraordinay solar activity camps. Some claim it's a combination of the two.
- The global cooling people claim that reducing CO2 / greenhouse gas levels will only hasten the onset of the coming ice age.
- Politicians (and the powers that be behind them) love the greenhouse gas version best because it gives them excuses for social reforms.
There's not a hell of a lot of science behind the "climate systems" mainly because there is not a hell of a lot of hard fact. Climatic models may well be good enough for forecasting the weather two or three days into the future but that is the state of the art. The models you are talking about are based on theories and having theories is what _these_ scientist get paid for. Up to now a CO2 based doomsday theory was a sure winner but nowadays the market is too saturated creating openings for solar-CO2 hybrids or pure solar theories, computer models and research inclusive.
... taking off your sandals and striking yourselfon the head until you bleed:
http://www.physorg.com/news10978.html
Warmer than a Hot Tub: Atlantic Ocean Temperatures Much Higher - Scientists have found evidence that tropical Atlantic Ocean temperatures may have once reached 107F (42C)--about 25F (14C) higher than ocean temperatures today and warmer than a hot tub.
Ooops.. and that was normal back then? With oceans like that how much ice do you think was floating in them?
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on-earth/vars un.html
Mike Flaugher: It is my personal belief that with the beginning of Sunspot Cycle 23, we MAY be entering into a period of climate disturbance similar to that in the early 1800's, and POSSIBLY like that of the three major disturbances of the last millennium, the Wolf, Sporer and Maunder Minimums. The latter possibility we will not know with certainty for several decades. Solar Cycle 23, however, appears at this time poised to begin a major downshift in solar levels which may well cause reactions in the stratosphere and, through mechanisms now being studied as illustrated in some of the articles above, a series of reactions in the lower atmosphere. I believe that the manifestation of these changes may soon be felt as a shifting of weather patterns of moisture, dryness, and temperature.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/ne ws/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/i xnewstop.html
Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research. Dr Sami Solanki, the director of the renowned Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Gottingen, Germany, who led the research, said: "The Sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.
"The Sun is in a changed state. It is brighter than it was a few hundred years ago and this brightening started relatively recently - in the last 100 to 150 years."
Ooops. How are we going to turn down the Sun?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) or Medieval Climate Optimum was an unusually warm period during the European Medieval period, lasting from about the 10th century to about the 14th century. It has been argued a better name would be the Medieval Climatic Anomaly. The MWP is often involved in contentious discussions of global warming and the greenhouse effect.
Ooops. We've obviously already have been there - much to the chagrin of one or the other faction trying to justify social change by predicting dire climatic consequences. These factions - as the Wikipedia goes on - of course are hard at work trying to find ways to paint the current warming trend as something novel and unique even in view of literally rock-solid past evidence. The Wikipedia is another btw another good starting point for the debate between the global cooling/warming factions and the CO2 doomsday prophets.
While we're at it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_Climatic_Opt imum
Some more warming in timeframe of 9000 to 5000 years B.P (Before present, before 1950 CE that is):
The Holocene Climate Optimum was a warm period during roughly the interval 9,000 to 5,000 years B.P.. This event has also been known by many other names, including: Hypisthermal, Altithermal, Climatic Optimum, Holocene Optimum, Holocene Thermal Maximum, and Holocene Megathermal.
Temperature variations during the
Maybe they resolve the day the googlebot swings by, maybe they wont, you can't take that behavior for granted. Google has a certain vision of a content rich internet at the expense of content providers and they're not shy to police it either, if you remember what just happened to BMW for fooling around with the google bot. You're right about ARIN etc. having the last word on the ownership of an address but first of all, looking up all the information is tedious at best and your use of it is most likely outside the scope of the license you are provided the information under and then it still isn't guaranteed to be correct (it might be off a day or two between updates, how can you tell?). Of course, by all means try your luck and once in a while drop by and tell us how you're doing.
Few sites even dare think about turning down the googlebot. I don't know google's address ranges at the moment without looking. Do you? They could add new address space any day and you wouldn't be the wiser - you'd notice only when it's already too late and your page is no longer listed on google.