Linux is already an feasible replacement for Windows, what more do you want? What scares me is that people want to kick MS out of the game so that everyone will use Linux instead of Windows. Well what about people who want to use windows? There are a few of them out there.
You have to think of the larger picture here: There are thousands of software developers out there who've invested their time and money into developing and training on the Windows platform. What would you say to them? "Tough shit, you'll just have to rewrite your livelihood." Let it be by choice - let the world move over at it's own pace. By trying to kill microsoft, you're just being as bad as they are.
So, let's show the world what we're made of - let's keep on making the best goddamned operating system this world's ever seen. But, please - don't make it personal!
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Do you really care whether Microsoft says it's okay for us to exist? I'll bet you don't. So let them try to keep 100% of the market - I won't try to stop them. I'll just keep on working with my Linux system, and writing my own software under the GPL.
You see, they can't defeat Open Source by outselling it, and I don't want to defeat them. It's just not important to me. Let them do what they want - and we'll do the same.
And the day I see Linux hackers on war elephants is the day I buy an iMac (without LinuxPPC):)
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
But after reading some of these early posts, I'm really thinking that somethings rotten in the state of the Linux community.
Why does Microsoft have to lose for us to win? Why can't we just be happy in making a great operating system that millions of people can enjoy? Do we have to make it into a competition? Unless you own or work for a Linux-based company, I just don't see the reasoning.
I thought the whole point was that we're not in it for the money, right (obviously)? So who cares if MS puts up anti-linux pages? What's going to happen? It's not like a loss of sales can hurt an Open Source community. So I say: Take a step back. Let Microsoft do whatever the hell they want. I don't care. I'm going to use Linux anyway, and I know most of you out there will do the same. But for the love of god, don't make it personal.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
And I'd be willing to bet the shoes on my feet that there are a great deal of people in the Linux community that feel the same way. Where did we pick up this whole "Microsoft must be made to pay for their crimes" mentality? I personally feel that the two OSes can coexist.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
That's exactly what I thought of when I read the/. intro, but really it's not even close to what they described it as. Think about this: it's just a popularity contest. The person on the island that most people like win $1,000,000. The fact that they're on an island is incidental.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Not true - That was just something that someone said and then floated around/. Intel has said that Microsoft does have a working version of Win64 that will boot on the Merced prototypes. I thought we cleared this up awhile back.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Someone actually told me that was the plan... Of course, he's not entirely credible, so I take it with a grain of salt. Anyway, I haven't watched Millenium...
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Yeah, basically. I mean, MFC blows, but I'd love to see something like this that would be standardized. Of course, you'd never get people to use it unless it was totally compatible with both Gnome and KDE (and Motif/Lesstiff would be cool too). What about some sort of drop-in replacement library that would make them all act the same, even though the calls were different? That'd be a bitch to code though. Hell, even just an app that would synchronize the widgets/color schemes between the two desktops would be great.
There are a lot of people out there who think that the NSA might already be capable of doing just this sort of thing. It's scary to think that our own government might have technology like Quantum computers and just isn't saying anything. With that sort of stuff lying around, most of our "unbreakable" encryption isn't worth the bytes in memory that it takes up.
Although I would tend to agree with your philosophy about the learning/fun aspect of using Linux/Unix systems, there are a lot of people out there who don't care about that sort of thing. They're the "average" desktop computer user and they just want to type their documents and use their spreadsheets. I don't necessarily believe that they should be forced to learn the syntax of/etc/fstab or the chmod command. If we can get a nice easy to use distro out there that lets the user enjoy the stability of Linux without the hassles of Unix, then I think we've really got something to be proud of.
If AOL did start supporting Linux (and I'm not saying that they necessarily will) it would be an ENORMOUS boon for the Linux community. Sure, there are a ton of script-kiddies in AOL's chatrooms, but there's also a really large supply of everyday PC users who could prove invaluable in our quest for desktop domination.
AOL for Linux + cheap Internet-ready PCs = Penguin Power
IIRC you can get an educational/home-use version of Solaris for merely the cost of shipping, at Sun's webpage. Granted, that's doesn't do any good for people looking for Enterprise Servers for their company, but it is free.
What privacy do you have? Paranoia aside, we've only got as much privacy as we allow ourselves. If you don't encrypt everything, then it's going over the wire PLAIN AS DAY. Anyone who knows what they're doing, and is in the right place can make your data theirs. And don't kid yourself - Foreign countries have just as good, sometimes better, cryptography anyway, because of the US's export laws.
I can have JUST as much privacy in Singapore as I can in America - it's all about how you do it.
All of what I said is assuming that the NSA doesn't use Quantum computers to crack 4096-bit keys in 5 minutes. That being the case, then yes, you are completely correct.
As far as I can see, that's just not true. Take a country like India, for example. The US has a greater abundance of technology, no doubt about it, but the state of our technology is not dissimilar. You can find the same sorts of technology in countries all around the industrialized world. Hello? Japan?
A typical Windows98 install is around 300 Megs I think. My typical Linux installs run around a gig or so. That's Mandrake 6.1, if you're curious. I think most Linux distros offer *more* software than MS does, primarily because it's all free anyway. The only things that I use that don't come with Mandrake are GAIM and StarOffice. Besides, most of MS's utilities are pretty stupid and/or worthless. Just look in the accesories section of a start menu.
I totally agree that Linux *is* as easy (depending on how you look at it) as Windows. Sometimes, like with NT, even more so. That's irrelevant, however, because the average user -- the guy who avoids Linux because of this stuff -- NEVER NEEDS TO INSTALL WINDOWS. Well, yeah, that's obvious, right? It's preinstalled. Guess what? That's tough titties for us. We've got to make Linux EVEN EASIER to install, so that it's as easy to install Linux as it is to use a pre-installation of Windows. I think that WinLinux2000 that we just saw a week ago was a step in the right direction, but we need to do more, and preferably not using the UMSDOS filesystem.
Yes, it is an x86 processor, but IIRC there is some emulation going on there. I think it's mostly in the 16-bit code though. I could be totally offbase here. In any case, they could run at a faster speed than an actual pentium without any problem. Clock rate isn't really a measure of speed (look at Alpha v. Athlon v. PIII). The Transmeta processor could be FASTER than that PIII and run the PIII instructions in emulation. If it was done well enough, the emulated speed would still be faster. Of course, this is all speculation at this point.
But not really a new concept, by any means. The cordless phone example is a pretty good one, though. There are tons of things we depend on every day that suddenly become useless if we lose power. I like to look on the more positive side of this, and try to imagine that, as our civilization becomes more and more technologically advanced, it becomes less and less likely to crumble under these pitfalls, as things like redundancy and failsafes are put into place.
I think, all things considered, we aren't any more likely to destroy ourselves than we were 100 years ago. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Yeah, well you bring up a good point, which is that Linux *is* to the point where it can be setup as a MomOS but even Caldera OpenLinux isn't a MomOS out of the box. And the installation (for any Linux) isn't even remotely mom-friendly.
I've got an Adelphia Powerlink (Two-way) here at my house, and I've got one installed at my office. I can't say that I've been exceptionally pleased with their tech-support availability, but overall I've had not serious issues with them. At work we run a mail server and a webserver off the modem, and it also keeps the other 10 PCs in the office connected to the Internet through IPNat on our OpenBSD firewall. They've never made an issue out of it, even when they saw our setup while they were installing. As long as you don't suck the hell out of their bandwith, it doesn't bother them.
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You have to think of the larger picture here: There are thousands of software developers out there who've invested their time and money into developing and training on the Windows platform. What would you say to them? "Tough shit, you'll just have to rewrite your livelihood." Let it be by choice - let the world move over at it's own pace. By trying to kill microsoft, you're just being as bad as they are.
So, let's show the world what we're made of - let's keep on making the best goddamned operating system this world's ever seen. But, please - don't make it personal!
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
You see, they can't defeat Open Source by outselling it, and I don't want to defeat them. It's just not important to me. Let them do what they want - and we'll do the same.
And the day I see Linux hackers on war elephants is the day I buy an iMac (without LinuxPPC) :)
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Why does Microsoft have to lose for us to win? Why can't we just be happy in making a great operating system that millions of people can enjoy? Do we have to make it into a competition? Unless you own or work for a Linux-based company, I just don't see the reasoning.
I thought the whole point was that we're not in it for the money, right (obviously)? So who cares if MS puts up anti-linux pages? What's going to happen? It's not like a loss of sales can hurt an Open Source community. So I say: Take a step back. Let Microsoft do whatever the hell they want. I don't care. I'm going to use Linux anyway, and I know most of you out there will do the same. But for the love of god, don't make it personal.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Yeah, basically. I mean, MFC blows, but I'd love to see something like this that would be standardized. Of course, you'd never get people to use it unless it was totally compatible with both Gnome and KDE (and Motif/Lesstiff would be cool too). What about some sort of drop-in replacement library that would make them all act the same, even though the calls were different? That'd be a bitch to code though. Hell, even just an app that would synchronize the widgets/color schemes between the two desktops would be great.
There are a lot of people out there who think that the NSA might already be capable of doing just this sort of thing. It's scary to think that our own government might have technology like Quantum computers and just isn't saying anything. With that sort of stuff lying around, most of our "unbreakable" encryption isn't worth the bytes in memory that it takes up.
Although I would tend to agree with your philosophy about the learning/fun aspect of using Linux/Unix systems, there are a lot of people out there who don't care about that sort of thing. They're the "average" desktop computer user and they just want to type their documents and use their spreadsheets. I don't necessarily believe that they should be forced to learn the syntax of /etc/fstab or the chmod command. If we can get a nice easy to use distro out there that lets the user enjoy the stability of Linux without the hassles of Unix, then I think we've really got something to be proud of.
AOL for Linux + cheap Internet-ready PCs = Penguin Power
IIRC you can get an educational/home-use version of Solaris for merely the cost of shipping, at Sun's webpage. Granted, that's doesn't do any good for people looking for Enterprise Servers for their company, but it is free.
I can have JUST as much privacy in Singapore as I can in America - it's all about how you do it.
All of what I said is assuming that the NSA doesn't use Quantum computers to crack 4096-bit keys in 5 minutes. That being the case, then yes, you are completely correct.
As far as I can see, that's just not true. Take a country like India, for example. The US has a greater abundance of technology, no doubt about it, but the state of our technology is not dissimilar. You can find the same sorts of technology in countries all around the industrialized world. Hello? Japan?
Naturally :)
A typical Windows98 install is around 300 Megs I think. My typical Linux installs run around a gig or so. That's Mandrake 6.1, if you're curious. I think most Linux distros offer *more* software than MS does, primarily because it's all free anyway. The only things that I use that don't come with Mandrake are GAIM and StarOffice. Besides, most of MS's utilities are pretty stupid and/or worthless. Just look in the accesories section of a start menu.
I totally agree that Linux *is* as easy (depending on how you look at it) as Windows. Sometimes, like with NT, even more so. That's irrelevant, however, because the average user -- the guy who avoids Linux because of this stuff -- NEVER NEEDS TO INSTALL WINDOWS. Well, yeah, that's obvious, right? It's preinstalled. Guess what? That's tough titties for us. We've got to make Linux EVEN EASIER to install, so that it's as easy to install Linux as it is to use a pre-installation of Windows. I think that WinLinux2000 that we just saw a week ago was a step in the right direction, but we need to do more, and preferably not using the UMSDOS filesystem.
Yes, it is an x86 processor, but IIRC there is some emulation going on there. I think it's mostly in the 16-bit code though. I could be totally offbase here. In any case, they could run at a faster speed than an actual pentium without any problem. Clock rate isn't really a measure of speed (look at Alpha v. Athlon v. PIII). The Transmeta processor could be FASTER than that PIII and run the PIII instructions in emulation. If it was done well enough, the emulated speed would still be faster. Of course, this is all speculation at this point.
I think, all things considered, we aren't any more likely to destroy ourselves than we were 100 years ago. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Yeah, well you bring up a good point, which is that Linux *is* to the point where it can be setup as a MomOS but even Caldera OpenLinux isn't a MomOS out of the box. And the installation (for any Linux) isn't even remotely mom-friendly.
I've got an Adelphia Powerlink (Two-way) here at my house, and I've got one installed at my office. I can't say that I've been exceptionally pleased with their tech-support availability, but overall I've had not serious issues with them. At work we run a mail server and a webserver off the modem, and it also keeps the other 10 PCs in the office connected to the Internet through IPNat on our OpenBSD firewall. They've never made an issue out of it, even when they saw our setup while they were installing. As long as you don't suck the hell out of their bandwith, it doesn't bother them.