Slashdot Mirror
Download.com Features Linux Distro
Morpheous writes "C|Net Download.Com is showcasing Armed Linux, which apparently is similar to WinLinux 2000 (it runs on top of Windows). Unfortunately, the website doesn't give too many details, except that they are attempting to create the "easiest" to use distro of Linux yet."
It is true that I would like to these OS distributions actually running the web and ftp servers on the distribution that they have created. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford a dedicated server located on a line directly connected to the internet with unlimited bandwidth without forking over a lot of cash. Sometimes we have to use whatever our ISP or chosen web hosting service uses. I'd host my web page off my home Linux box if my DSL provider didn't prohibit the use of servers.
a web page with glitzy pictures, almost no technical info. what can this do that my dual-boot with debian can't? bah!
Fine with me, just don't flame the guys who do use Windows then..
Then check to see where "unmovable" sectors are located. If there are some near the end, you can't repartition or Wincrap will break.
/s
C:\> attrib -H -R -S
I host 2 site with half price. They use SUSE and apache with php and mod perl. Im not sure why they did not go with that. I have talked with there lead unix systems guy and he seams very nice.
--
Joshua Curtis
Lancaster Co. Linux Users Group
One reason why UMSDOS is better than a loopback filesystem is that these are average users here. So chances are, the FAT filesystem is fragmented badly. This means that the loopback swap/ext2 filesystem will be fragmented too, and therefore slower than UMSDOS.
Of course, this problem isn't apparent to most people who can create a distro, because they defrag regularly. It has tradeoffs of course, like needing more space. I agree that the loopback device is the "right" way of doing things, but UMSDOS isn't that bad, and gets the job done better in a lot of cases for the kind of user this distro is aimed at.
> Intrestingly enough if you look up MSN.com on Netcraft you get this. Well at least we know M$N isn't doing that well if they can run a server off of Win95.
Yes, but even more interestingly the MAIN site uses Win95 too!
I doubt, therefore I may be.
fusiongyro sez:
... or are computers just tools for end-users? As much as I enjoy the toy factor, I am painfully aware of how end-users are impacted by closed systems such as Windows, with all that implies (we need not retread those arguments here).
I don't have a problem with people learning to use Linux. I have a problem with everyone trying to make life simple for the users, because that's just going to invite them to come in and stomp all over what we've made so far. There is a difference between teaching users, and catering to them. We have to draw a line.
You are obviously not in the business of building computer systems for end-users, or you'd realize just how ridiculous you sound.
Are computers toys for hackers
My objective in supporting Linux is to have an OS that can be used in a corporate environment, with a much smaller total-cost-of-ownership, and reasonable support requirements. Now, Windows ain't gonna go away, but Linux has a shot at occupying a big chunk of the corporate market.
In other words, I'm not supporting Linux because I think Torvalds is cool and open source is cool and I like being part of a subculture and, oh yeah, Microsoft is evil; I'm actually supporting Linux because it's better for people.
And I'm sorry, but in the real world, easy-to-use is a big part of that, too.
Your "let's keep Linux arcane and difficult so the masses don't find out about it" argument is juvenile. As far as I'm concerned, Linux advocacy does not need people like you. You don't "love Linux"; you love being part of the Linux subculture, and you want to keep it exclusionary and secretive. You're part of the problem. Please stop.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
DHartung wrote:
> My objective in supporting Linux is to have an OS that can be used in a corporate
> environment, with a much smaller total-cost-of-ownership, and reasonable support
> requirements. Now, Windows ain't gonna go away, but Linux has a shot at occupying a big
> chunk of the corporate market.
Well, that's not my objective. My objective is to have something that works better for me on my home system. Clearly, we have different points of view, for different circumstances.
My article was designed to get people thinking. It was intentional. I don't want to see Linux turn into Windows--by which I mean, I want it to stay fast, pretty, and somewhat arcane.
> I'm actually supporting Linux because it's better for people.
? How is any OS better for anyone? According to your argument, as long as it is usable, it is good. Why is Windows not good enough for *YOU*?
> In other words, I'm not supporting Linux because I think Torvalds is cool and open source
> is cool and I like being part of a subculture and, oh yeah, Microsoft is evil; I'm
> actually supporting Linux because it's better for people.
Where do you get this? I don't see the word "cool" anywhere in my article. For that matter, I didn't mention open source or Linus Torvaldes. Or the "subculture". Now, I will admit that I do greatly agree, Linus is cool, and so is open source. I like being a part of the subculture. But that's not what I'm trying to protect. I think Linux is just a better system.
> Your "let's keep Linux arcane and difficult so the masses don't find out about it"
> argument is juvenile. As far as I'm concerned, Linux advocacy does not need people like
> you. You don't "love Linux"; you love being part of the Linux subculture, and you want to
> keep it exclusionary and secretive. You're part of the problem. Please stop.
Why is my argument juvenile? What is wrong with savoring something and not having to force everyone to use it? I assure you, I do love Linux. I patrol various Linux-related newsgroups to help newbies get acqainted with the system. I certainly don't want Linux to be exclusionary or secretive. I just don't think that condescension should be part of the system. And I think that having uneducated users is certainly going to push the system in that direction.
And how can you argue with that? A properly configured Linux system with an administrator is just as capable of userfriendliness now as it was two or more years ago. Sure, it may look more like Windows now, and it may have prettier themes, and it may have filemanagers, but what do these really add? If you are using it as a graphics workstation, what do you REALLY need to be able to do, besides launch the program and copy the files around? Or get email? And I don't think that GNOME or KDE really change that, from a corporate perspective.
Furthermore, I'd like to know what the "problem" here is. Linux was made by hackers not too different from myself for themselves. It was not made to be a "[small] total-cost-of-ownership solution [with] reasonable support requirements". How can the creators be themselves the problem, if their system is so glorious?
FusionGyro
how many /. readers does it take to figure out what web server a site is running? jeeshmthought you guys were smart.
And give me one reason for flaming you for your opinion... there isn't one, it's your opinion (it's also what I mean). Chill, dude.. not everybody like to flame needlessly
-m
99 little bugs in the code,
99 bugs in the code,
fix one bug, compile it again...
Voting Moo Anyway!
This does not run under windows! Please get your fact straight. Musta been a slackware user who posted this article. ALl it does it create a link to your desktop you click on the uses loadlin to load linux, windows is gone after that.. poof disapear!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...can I assume this is pronounce "Ar-mhed"?
Otherwise it sounds like some high crypto/security release:
"Man, you're not running *BSD; from my perspective, you're a security risk."
"No way dude, my Linux box is ARMED!
At last; a Linux distro that runs ontop of Windoze ...
WHY ????
Is this really being sold as an advancement ?
VMWare I like, so I can open Windoze on top of Linux to play games. Retain the strength of Linux as the underlying OS and still have the flexability to play with all the mainstreet pap.
I say again WHY ?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
You guys are all paranoid !! Who cares if the website that distributes the package is this or that ?! I'm a Microsoft certified NT server blah blah blah, you get the picture.. Now, i've been looking at installing/running Linux for the longuest time but was kind of reluctant, well, i tried both winlinux and ARMlinux on diff machines and i love it.. the install was 100% hassle free ! just the way i like it ! To comment on a line that was said in a previous post :'Where's the fun in installing Linux if you don't compile this and make your own drivers that' ! Listen, i've put up with Microsoft's crap installs for too long.. H.A.L. disk this, bsod that, 2 million reboots.. what should in theory take less than an hour, takes 2 days ! I want to use the OS not spend 5 weeks messing around with it ! Bottom line is, 98% of the people that uses computers won't care about compiling whatever and creating device drivers and mass acceptance will be what dictates the next big tech turn(hopefully Linux), soo try and be happy when people are trying to make a difference, in the end it'll probably benefit you the most ! Don't beat up on the home team !! :) my 02 cents .5
...to exterminate all linux users.
;)
#include xfiles.h
Let's see.. it's a linux distro that behaves with windows... to learn more about it (what.asp), you come to a page with cute women -- the graphic is entitled 'chick.gif', for goodness' sake!
Are they really just using sex appeal to lure people over to the dark side, never to return?
Incidentally, I know I've seen that graphic elsewhere before. Anyone know what it's from?
I have tried Armed Linux. It is not my cup of tea, but it seems to be a decent distro, with a clever "integration" with windoze.
I don't know if what kind of server a distros site is on is really a great criterion on which to judge the distro.
Their point seems to be "integration" with windows, so why not run on windows?
I think that the are probably on some web hosting companies non-dedicated server, and that the decision was a busines decision, not a technical one.
Are we to become FUDmeisters ourselves?
-Peter
I installed this the other day to see if it lived up to the hype...
Frankly I had a hell of a time with it all around. It had a kernal panic attack nearly everytime I tried to boot it. Also, it was unable to find my nic card or my scsi card... Wee, fun.
Bah. I'm sticking with Redhat.
Yeah. That thing is really silly. Give em something real like OpenLinux I say.
Heck that site is slow.
I think my point is that just giving Windows users a Linux distro that runs on top of Windows is a bad idea, the speed is hit and so is the file system.
[soapbox-mode ON]
:) Even then, it was still hard: I had to manually configure everything. Now its easier. So what?
What's so bad about them? Because the run UMSDOS, which is slow? Because users don't have to tinker with cryptic config files?
My first distro was Slackware. I set it up on a UMSDOS to try it out (because I didn't want to have to wipe out "working" system...little did I suspect that my machine wasn't working half as well it does now
Myself, I compare this my online experiences. When I first started out online, I had to figure out how to configure cryptic terminal emulator packages like ProComm (not even PLUS!) and learn silly things like baud rate, parity, stop bits. I had to learn to use download and upload protocols. I had to configure my offline mail reader with an ASCII text file (BlueWave). Later, when I setup my own BBS, I had to learn goofy things like FOSSIL drivers and mailer frontend software.
Then comes along things like Prodigy and AOL and they RUIN EVERYTHING. Now anyone and their mother can get online with point and click.
So what? It means more people get to be online. It means that people who don't care about computers the way hackers do, people who use comptuers as a TOOL can finally get to enjoy the things that we have come to enjoy.
The same holds true for Linux. If point and click installation programs that install the thing non-destructively on Windows boxes is what it takes for Linux to reach critical mass, SO BE IT. It means that Linux will get used by a wider audience and the community will grow. People will see why we like Linux so much, and maybe they'll switch to a full Red Hat or Debian distribution. Maybe they'll toss out Windows, and if enough people do that, so long Microsoft, so long Windows. The world will be a better place.
[end soapbox mode]
My journal has hot
A distro that installs under windows? Wow. Phat Linux has run off a windows partition for, oh, ages.
What is the world coming to?
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Easy to use distros bore me. Where's the fun in that ? With Linux, you want to struggle manfully just to install the thing! Poring over technical manuals and resolving issues is where its at. You should write your own device drivers. What's the use of getting an open source OS if you can't tool around ? Might as well get that Windblows 98 from MicroShaft.
Linux was meant for people who like to look under the hood, without passing out or barfing up ( IMHO). Text-only command line RULES !
"We learn most when we have to invent"- Jean Piaget
"We learn most when we have to tool around"
Plasmax ; )
"We learn most when we have to invent"-Jean Piaget
"There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."
Armed Linux has been in beta for several months. Some ask why you have never heard of it. I submitted several stories about this distro to Slashdot back in August. Apparently it wasn't news then, although other news outlets have had stories.
On the FAQ-page the last question:
/forums/default.asp, line 11
;). Also NetCraft says it "is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98".
Q: Why ASP pages?
A: They are quick, easy, and will run on Linux now! We use PERL too.
Why, then, do I get a page looking like:
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '8007000e'
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] System resource exceeded.
when I go to the page http://www.armed.net/forums/default.asp (update before I could post this. It now says "Sorry, temporarily offline due to the Slashdot effect."
I guess the word 'will' is an important word here. Personally I don't trust an OS (or in this case a distribution) whose web server is not running on it. (I've heard some Microsloth sites are running Linux. Anybody got any facts on this?)
I doubt, therefore I may be.
On the FAQ-page the last question:
;). Also NetCraft says it "is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98".
Q: Why ASP pages?
A: They are quick, easy, and will run on Linux now! We use PERL too.
Why, then, do I get a page looking like:
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '8007000e'
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] System resource exceeded.
/forums/default.asp, line 11
when I go to the page http://www.armed.net/forums/default.asp (update before I could post this. It now says "Sorry, temporarily offline due to the Slashdot effect."
I guess the word 'will' is an important word here. Personally I don't trust an OS (or in this case a distribution) whose web server is not running on it. (I've heard some Microsloth sites are running Linux. Anybody got any facts on this?)
I doubt, therefore I may be.
yea well I think it is bias, if enough people pester them or if it is on a 'big name' site/news program then slashdot will give it first dibbs.
I posted a while ago about a little heard of compaq project to create a palm size pc with linux, which I think was interesting, but no postings as of yet.
okay I admit there are places (articles) where slashdot excels at getting nonmainstream media, but sometimes it isn't...... well all I can say is new 'mainstream linux' net medium.
What on earth were they thinking???? I am not going to buy Winrar just to download that thing.
It looks to me like another company just trying to make a quick dollar. I wonder how many more of these we are going to see trying to use the linux name to make a profit. There is just something about their web site that makes them seem kind of seedy, but then again I tend not to trust anyone who thinks running anything on a M$ platform is a good idea. Just looks like a bunch of marketers got together and decided with the recent good fortune of anything with the word linux in it on the stock market, that they would like a piece of the pie also. I don't like it and like I said, I can see a lot more similar companys/products in the future.
it's too bad you're a jackass.
Could someone please clarify this for me: This is supposed to be a distro that "runs on Windows".. What exactly is that supposed to mean? -Linux already supports the same processors that Windows does (tons more in fact!) -Linux already installs to any version of FAT that you would care for, plus at least 3(more?) other file-systems types -Linux can already conexist either on the same partition different Dir and Win or on the same PC different partition.. So again- what exactly does that mean..? Analogies anyone..?
The 6.1 distro of Linux-Mandrake has a neat utility called lnx4win.exe, a Windows program that installs as much of a full Mandrake install as you can fit into an ext2 filesystem that is contained in an image file on your Windows-FAT drive. Read a brief review at http://linuxforum.com/99/07/linux4win.html
A nice program.
If you have to emulate an OS at least do it the right way around and run 98 and/or NT on vmware for linux?
Stable, powerful base OS and protection from virii too.
# telnet www.armed.net 21 Trying 208.141.56.223... Connected to www.armed.net. Escape character is '^]'. 220 web8.halfpricehosting.com X2 WS_FTP Server 1.0.3 (160170359)
# telnet www.armed.net 21
Trying 208.141.56.223...
Connected to www.armed.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 web8.halfpricehosting.com X2 WS_FTP Server 1.0.3 (160170359)
.asp? does it seem ironic that a webpage for a linux distribution that is suppose to be so easy to use is hosted on a windows platform ... on telneting to the webserver ... Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
... :)
Joy!
I concur, even if I can't spell. I am very much afraid that making linux as user-friendly and newbie-friendly as possible jeapordises linux. I would worry that if linux had the userbase of windows, that it would degrade to the quality of windows. (No I'm not biased. :) .)
I use the CLI (or CLUE if you will) for everything, and only on rare occasions I'll zip into X to start up real audio or some such. (Right now I'm actually on a bona fide vt100 terminal, but anyway).
OFTC: By the community, for the community
This is pure evil! Slick ASP web pages! Just Unzip into Windows directory! How can can this be!!
Danger Danger Will Robinson
Does anyone know who these guys are? Is this a case of a hidden dagger from Microsoft? What is this register your software crap on the web page!
Why do they have nonsense like:
Linux, a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds, has been released to the public domain.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't see any source code, either.
How many more distributions are there going to be? I hope the Linux Standard Base is out and all the new distros follow it. Prakash http://www.freeos.com
Prakash
FreeOS.com - The resource center for free operating systems.
Armed linux is not a distro used to run under windows, it is it's own full OS. Only preconfigured for first time linux users, who need to just follow a few scripts to get them started and into linux ASAP! Once you start it, it's it's own OS from that point on, NO WINDOWS INVOLVED!
No, real programmers open up their harddrives and change bits on the platters =)
-Not an AC, but so far offtopic that the Karmic impact isn't worth it.
Look at the site design. That's pretty hip, yet concise. Perhaps a bit too sparse on detail, agreed. Then again, their site is crawling right now... I haven't checked it all out yet. What I noticed was that it's very unlike most open source sites (well, apart from Raster, /. and a few others). First of all, the site looks designed for the Gap generation. A picture out of Friends almost. Or, to put it bluntly, clearly aimed at pop culture. /., the lpd project, hell, RH, gnome, kde, etc. are all much more designed to keep us more typical linux/open source users happy with news, software, toys...
I find this stuff interesting, the sort of cultural differences online and to sort of see an example of the meshing of the two is an example of what might come in the next few years. People are hearing about Linux in the news. Some are curious. But most already tackled the basic learning curve of Windoze and that's all they know. Now they're promised a safe route through installation that promises not to touch windoze, and then they have a dual boot with little hassle, or so they're promised. That's what a lot of people want, something that doesn't threaten them.
So, as I see it, it's just another marketing approach to distribute a product. I don't know anything about the people behind the distro. I plan on finding some out if possible. But if they're aiming to be a consumer distro, I feel you can see where they're aiming. Not the distro for me or the servers I play with, but some people targetting a new market. RH might be doing quite well in the news and market, but they're still aiming for the more tech oriented than most users out there.
I can't wait until the next round in the drive for the consumer market. We've got Corel coming in as well now. Each with a different marketing approach. Armed seems to really be aiming for the home user, and that alone.
Just a few of my ramblings...
Here you are:
http://www.iarchitect.com/mshame.htm
This should be required reading for all software developers.
The sections devoted to Win95 are:
Common File Dialogs
Explorer
Find Applet
-- I can't think of anything witty to put here. Sorry.
...Beowulf cluster! Yes, why waste all those cycles when you've got a lab-full of machines that could otherwise be computing PI to the Nth digit, or somesuch other useful computing task.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Sorry, MS uses NT only.
Stop yer FUD.
But of course. Public domain means "without copyright". The GPL is clearly a copyright license (though we like to call it copyleft, for obvious reasons ;). Public domain is about as useful to me as BSD- or X-style licensing (more or less).
And who ever said marketing people were clued in? Have you seen the commercials on TV lately? In simpler times, such things were meant as vehicles to sell products. Nowadays.. I don't know.. I just don't know.. =P
~ Kish
If it really is Microsoft I suspect they would've ensured that the hosting company had removed the sample files from IIS/4.0 as advised on the relevant security pages relating to that product.
See l0pht advisory dated 05/07/99 (mm/dd/yy).
The thing about this that I don't get is why would anyone WANT to run Linux on a Windows partition? With all of the cool partition utilities out there, why not just reduce the size of the Win partition and then install Red Hat with some cool LILO action. It is so friggin easy and hard disk space has never been so cheap...
I have a real problem when things like *nix start to be available to 11yr old script kiddie AOL hackers. Its somewhat like handing bullets to monkies that just have an empty gun. Also, if it is such a good product, and so stable, and so powerful blah blah blah, then why are they using NT on their server, not their own software?
--
BlackSpyder
And the gods of Rome and Greece and Egypt all cried out in vain, for noone could save them from their own distruction.
UMSDOS? oh yuck. why don't they put their root on a loopback mounted large file in the vfat partition? I'd definitely do it that way if I had to install Linux on Windows w/o repartitioning.
"Oh, so I can try out linux without full committment."...
..."Alright, I downloaded it, ran the installer, clicked the icon and now I'm trying out linux."...
..."Hey, this linux stuff is swell, I'm really enjoying it and I read about how it's actually running slower because it's using UMSDOS...I'll just wipe my drive and start from scratch!"...
..."um, where'd that installer icon go?"...
...thud.
Perhaps more effort should be spent on making feature-complete distributions that exist on a cd for demos and evaluation, and just all around more robust and intuitive (or at least informative*) linux-native installers. The idea is interesting, but if the FUD-wranglers are right about linux support being sparse, psychotic hybrid win95/linux installations aren't going to make things any easier. I'm not as concerned about linux doing weird things to windows, I'd just hate to see things like "Ever since I installed IE5.1, my 'Reboot to Linux' icon just spawns a window with the microsoft website..."
-transiit
* informative - without giving a full lecture at each step of an installation, how will a new user decide if they want package foo? (or for that matter, foo-development)
I went to buy a new NIC tonight at Best Buy (I should really stay away from that place) and asked a very helpful customer service agent if any of the NICs supported Linux. "Gosh, nobody done asked us that before." Finally I find one that says in black on green letters "Linux." Oh, yeah, the point? The guy behind me in the aisle was looking for a PCMCIA(NSA) card for his laptop, seems he wanted to get a bit more life out of it, using Linux. He was about 46 bald, greying and wanting to learn what everybody is talking about. Young and old, theeey'rrree heeerrrreee.
+&x
They will learn, the hard way. They'll boot it up, panic, then go back to mr gates.
I installed Armed linux after I read a post last week dealing with WinLinux. It installs from the DOS prompt. It is based on Red Hat from teh nearest I can imagine. It sets up everything (mounting file systems and all that) without the user. Then it goes to a nice graphical interface to set up mouse, keyboard, video etc. That of course didn't work for me for some odd reason because it wouldn't boot into the system. So i ran x86config and set everything up and it worked fine. The video was still really bad, but I couldn't find my exact monitor specs and I think that was the problem. This is my second linux install. I installed RedHat early this summer and this install was no easier. The only problem I had last time was getting the video to work and that is my same problem now. So I guess what I am saying is that from a newbie standpoint this install was no easier than the real one. And Armed Linux has a very slimed down version red hat, it is missing some software. So overall, I don't recommend it.
Linux, a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds, has been released to the public domain.
Ahem... I know it is being a little nit-picky, but isn't the formal definition of public domain significantly different from the GNU GPL? It would seem as if the people marketing this need a little course in Linux 101.
I must say, it is alright to see these Linux-as-Windows-apps distributions showing up -- it may kindle a flame with those who would otherwise run screaming from having to do a real install. The problem is they will never get the TRUE (and IMHO-better) Linux experience until they take the plundge, split their windums partition (or scrap it altogether ;-), and do a "standard" #include install.
At least it may interest (and educate) several to go 'all the way'!
--
You're still using Windows?
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
-Possum Lodge Motto
I can just imagine guidance counsellors noticing that Little Johnny is taking interest in something that is, um, apparently related to weapons...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I wonder if HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy is some kind of primitive greeting from Windows NT... :)
/usr in a file and mounting it loopback. I actually saved some space, since ext2 stores files so much better than FAT16 does. :)
;) I mean, you don't want to confuse people or anything...
Anyhow, I ran DOSLinux at work for a while and the initial install was okay, but then I added the Slack package for X, and tried to do stuff, and realized how *slow* UMSDOS is.
Therefore, I ended up sticking
Oh, and whenever I install Linux as an option on someone's Windows machine, I never install lilo, and always install loadlin as a Windows icon called 'Linux' that asks if you want to go to MS-DOS mode.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Not everybody is (or want to be) totally IN when it comes to computers, just like when it comes to cars. Who wants to know how a piston engine works, let alone how it LOOKS...
Some people just want to USE a computer, yet they want to try out linux. That means ease of use above security. If they were to run this server on a mission-critical and/or oft-targeted box, they would have more sense than run linux on UMSDOS. The point here is that the people who try linux this way, use this as a possible starting point, to LEARN linux without the first hassle often associated with installing linux.
For that matter, would you prefer to use a computer via DIP switches, like they did in the 50's? I seriously doubt that.
People assume too easily that other people know exactly what they know, and everything is SO easy. Remember that people still mistake the CD-ROM for a coffee cup-holder. Stuff must be made easy enough so that a complete newbie can use it, the hard-core group which dedicate their whole life to hacking away at the computer is NOT someone to look for in userability testing.
-m
99 little bugs in the code,
99 bugs in the code,
fix one bug, compile it again...
Voting Moo Anyway!
HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy
-- Paul Gillingwater
Paul Gillingwater
MBA, CISSP, CISM
In fact it's quite simple to run Linux under Windoze (at least, Windows NT 4.0), and vice versa -- simply install VMWare. It's easy to install, seems stable and provides most of the functionality needed for both platforms. I even persuaded my boss to install Corel Linux on his NT machine once he saw how easy it was!
-- Paul Gillingwater
Paul Gillingwater
MBA, CISSP, CISM
Trust the force, Luke.
-m
99 little bugs in the code,
99 bugs in the code,
fix one bug, compile it again...
Voting Moo Anyway!
Re: "Unfortunately, the website doesn't give too many details,"... Why is that unfortunate? If it DID give too many details someone would complain about that too.
is that it is so easy to map other file extensions to the asp parser. if you are craven enough to use asp on a linux distro site at least at least make some attemp to hide the fact even if only for security through obscurity reasons given all the ASP and microsoft related exploits that keep popping up. As far as ASP on unix goes my response is that must be some good crack you are smoking, just about any other web tech would be more desirable. perl, java (jserv servlets and jsp), php, etc, etc, etc.
All the fuss over Armed & Winlinux... :)). You can install it in a DOS loop (unsure of the details but NOT UMSDOS)or do a true ex2 partition (FIPS included). All in a 48MB .bz + 5MB .zip. Fast download - mirrored @ linuxberg + site not /.ed. Good support on the message board. This was the first distro I tried & it is the one I'm using now (can't get COL 2.2 to work with my Vchip :o) the homepage
Peanut already does it better. Phat is O.K. but IIRC does not give you the option of installing to an ex2 partition. Peanut's got KDE, Nav 4.61 Kernel 2.2.12, X 3.3.5, latest libs & much more -
Faster too! (he sez
http://metalab.unc.edu/peanut/
is worth checking out just for the humor....
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
8 replies to the post and I am already getting: HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy
I really think people should remember what
Linux Torvalds made this OS for: His own personal
use. He's a very technical person. Bloated GUIs
were added later. I sort of like the idea of
giving windows or Be to the unwashed masses, then
let those who *like* to fiddle enjoy Linux, *BSD,
Tru64 etc. Just my opinion, but you'll flame me
anyhow.
I think we slashdotted them.....been down for a few hours now... I guess that'll teach em to use a proper os with their site...
I'm very sorry for double posting this message. The line to slashdot was really sticky and at times I had absolutely no idea whether the message had got posted or not.
Sorry...
I doubt, therefore I may be.
They want to be the "easiest" distribution.. but they aren't using KDE (or even GNOME)?
I dunno who their beta testers have been but the newbies *I* know would freak out having to use WindowMaker or Enlightenment on their own...
These are Linux distros with Windows-based installation programs. That's the novel feature -- the installation is like any other Windows program. Simplified transition for the newbie.
Both distros also run on UMSDOS (the Unix on DOS file system), a feature which has been around for ages. It means that you don't need to repartition or create filesystems to run Linux (it also means you can blow away Linux from within Windows or DOS).
Neither distro "runs on top of" windows in an executable sense. You get a dual-boot system. You choose, either, or. But both installation and execution (icon-based launcher) are streamlined.
These aren't power-user systems, they're introductory packages for getting Linux to the masses. Realize that a tool is a tool, and there are different tools for different problems. I think it's a neat concept. I probably won't install it myself (I'd have to go out and buy Windows first ....).
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Okay folks, its been done, move on.
What about ease of adminstration? Better integration of mutlimedia? etc. etc.
Folks on the message boards have been frothing at the mouth over their inability to get and try WinLinux2000, whose FTP has been slashdotted to hell for two weeks now. If anyone has the inside track to a mirror host that can handle the traffic (it's a 150 MB+ .zip file), I know both the WinLinux team and us eager WinLin wanters would be grateful. Drop them a note at info@winlinux.net. For a look at the pissing and moaning the pent-up demand is causing, check out the stop.at/winlinux or stop.at/phatlinux message boards. (Yeah, the URLs look funny, but they're typed correctly.) Apparently WinLinux put in all the ordinary desktop stuff and left out a lot of hackmaster tools. All these Linux-under-DOS systems create a huge .IMG file in your DOS partition which reads as a loopback device when you run Linux. They say this is fifferent from UMSDOS. Is that right?
It does NOT RUN ON TOP OF WINDOWS. It runs a batch from command line and runs loadlin. Is funded by Gates most probably, it has to be. And yes its lame
great more point-and-click linux.
i bitched about this in a previous post and i still disagree with it!
maybe im afraid if all the users can slack off with "easy linux interfaces" then our future linux programmers will do! that would be horrible!
now sure i agree with the point: you can always do something in different ways, not neccisarily point-and-click.
maybe my opinion on this has to do with the fact i refuse to use X. console all the way! im just old fashioned i guess
tyler
Real Programmers do it with VI
...
Nope, in the middle of evil is VI
REAL programmers use
# cat > file.c
/* let's make a fancy C source */
...
^D
;-)
Well, now that Linux had gathered enough momentum to make it into a viable business venture, it was just a matter of time that Linux is made for the masses. An install that allows Win savy users to back out if something goes wrong is very appealing. Looks at the flip side, if the Win install version can hook just 1% of those who download it, they will eventually trash it, and get a real distro and become contributing members of the community. I see it as a teaser. "Here is what you could have...."
The battle for the desktop is some of the most valuable real estate in the world. M$ owns a good chunk of it, and right now, Linux has the worlds ear. Can it show it's true grit?
Money is to be made in markets that will never serve a single web page or dole out DNS entries to hungry browsers. The home user. The users who just learned Win9x and feel it is time to move on to new challenges
Install vmware on the wintendo machine, and install linux on the virutal machine. Add an option to migrate the linux installation to run native when you are penguinified ....
Not that I whuld use such crap ....
RFC1925
Stop being stupid. If you want to struggle, get a distro that lets you do that. Not everyone wants that so stop being so damn arrogant and bashing anything that gives your average user a break.
All i wanted to do was check this out but no! damm "http server to busy" error, ow well doesnt really look good for them if there webserver cant even handle /.
Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject.
just like linuxone
I hope the maintainer of this site sometime will install a pattern filter that suppresses posts like this (e.g. by automoderating them to -1)
Do you whink that we can beowolf this mother? Wouldn't that just be awsum!
Technologically, Phat seem to be most mature and advanced, featuring the option of installing to a loopback file as well as UMSDOS, giving potentially better performance. I can't compare the hardware detection in the various products. I presume Armed doesn't do loopback, but their web server won't serve me any pages today, so I can't tell.
But technology will not determine success. My take on the ones which will succeed are as follows:
- WinLinux2000 will win. It has the most accessible and descriptive name. It will appeal to Windows users. PhatLinux is an obscure hackerish joke on the name of the file system. Armed Linux sounds like a secure distro, not a newbie intro.
- Mandrake 6.1 may grab the market if they chose to push this feature, on the basis of their reputation as a conventional distribution. Corel could do even better if they wanted to do UMS or loopback installs, because they have the Windows brand-name recognition.
- DemoLinux will do well, and probably make lots of magazine coverdisks. Again, most importantly, the name says what it is.
Armed are going to take stick for their choice of web hosts, and the fact that their pages are unavailable whenever their product is in the news. Which seems perfectly fair to me.As a community out technical efforts are occasionally sabotaged by lack of attention when it comes to image.
what appears to be the worst for me is that it is a linux distribution that you cannot (easily) use without windows...
-- "Life is easier since I have excluded JonKatz stories from my homepage"
One of Microsoft's tactics is to make it easy to move migrate from Unix to NT. If Armed works, Great! It's just a way to migrate from Windoze to Linux! Give M$ some of their own medicine. I don't want Linux to rule the world, just Microsoft's part.
From the installation page:
"It is always recommended to make a new user account rather than being logged in as root all the time. Do this by typing 'useradd [name]', where is the name of the user you want to add. Once added You will need to make a password for that user. To do this, type 'passwd [name]'', again where [name] is the name of the user to modify."
Why nobody think about a script to run the first time you login to do this stuff?
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
glait:/opt/nephtes/src\>host www.armed.net
www.armed.net has address 208.141.56.223
glait:/opt/nephtes/src\>host www.halfpricehosting.com
www.halfpricehosting.com has address 208.141.56.249
Same subnet.
So the reason the server is IIS is because that's what their hosting service uses. Now, you could argue that they ought to be pickier about who hosts their site, but at least they didn't actually decide to set up an NT web server to sell Linux! (No personal interest, incidentally, just thought I'd shed some light.)
Steve 'Nephtes' Freeland | Okay, so maybe I'm a tiny itty
Now if they can only get rid of those annoying logins and those permission things they would be doing good. :)
Linux is only free if your time has no value. Windows is only free if you threaten to use Linux.
the DOES look weird. i've seen those arrows on the menu before.. on www.microsoft.com. and to state it again, why is a linux distro site running windows 98 and not it's own software? why must i purchase the cd for $11.99. and pay per incident for support?
why do i feel that it's not run by hackers, more marketing people. the kind of company that lets it's marketing department explain the product. either this is another hoax, or it's microsoft's first attempt at making a linux distribution. i don't beleive anything about that site either way.
Netcraft says :
www.armed.net is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98
What a joke this is!
How can you trust their Linux distribution when they are mostly windows experts?
Crap.
Linux runs quicker and more stable than Windows 98 on my computer, so how is Linux expected to retain its stability and speed if its running on Windows 98?
your conclusions are wrong. just because there are some distros that make linux easier to use, etc, shouldn't mean anything to someone who doesnt want to use that distro. they are not putting this stuff in the linux kernel you know. there will always be slackware (or something like it) for those who really want to or have the time to get into linux (read geeks). for the rest, why not let them get a glimpse of linux?
you never know, maybe some little kid is gonna look at his dads computer running cnets linux, and wonder about it and learn more about linux in general, and even someday end up writing code thats useful for you (or at least me anyway) if it hadnt been for that maybe the kid would have ended up writing really bad code for m$.
if everyone in the world used linux, there would still be a core of geeks who had a less user friendly version or whatever. this wouldnt be splintering or fragmenting or whatever. there would still be one kernel.
i personally am pretty geeky, and wish i had time
to learn enough about linux to write my own software. but i dont, so i installed redhat and
gnome. but who knows, maybe someday ill have a
chance to write some cool open source software, ill be glad that redhat was around when i got started
Just because your Wincrap disk has room on it doesn't mean you can reduce its partition's size. Try this: Defrag your Wincrap drive. Then check to see where "unmovable" sectors are located. If there are some near the end, you can't repartition or Wincrap will break. This happened to me. Your only recourses are to (1) get another hard drive and put Linux on it, (2) get rid of Wincrap (the preferred option), or (3) erase the Wincrap partition completely, repartition the drive to make room for both Wincrap and Linux, then reinstall Wincrap first, then Linux. Wincrap will never see the Linux partition, and think it has the whole drive.
I'd just like to say, in no way are armedlinux after money, riches, fame, etc. Flames are to be expected more than fans with this kind of distribution. Also, neither of them works for microsoft. Armed is develloped, and shipped from Austin, TX. i'd like to remind you all that Microsoft is based out of Redmond, WA. Thats an awfully long way.
[will@may will]$ telnet www.armed.net 80
Trying 208.141.56.223...
Connected to www.armed.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
get foo
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:19:41 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 87
Who would download a linux dist from an NT server?
Something is not right here.
Be afraid Be very afraid.
ev0l
1. Build a shitty Dist that claims to be the easiest. 2. Put it on a site full of M$ users. 3. Then when they download it and try it, it turns out to be really hard. 4. then the lamers who couldn't figure it out claim they tried Linux and it's really hard, and is no where as good as winblows. 5. M$ uses this as "proof" that the Winblows OS is the only real choice.
great more point-and-click linux... i still disagree with it!
That is your right, and a fine thing to do. Nobody is going to force you or anybody else to use "point-and-click" Linux.
Linux is about choice. Some people want just a console. Others want a Windows95 look-alike. Others want Enlightenment with transparent terminal windows and motion video as a desktop background. One of the great things about Linux is that any or all of this is possible, at your choice.
I don't think we have to worry about crap programmers on Linux. Sure, crap programs can appear. They already do. But again, it is your choice to use them or not. Unlike certain other software monopolies I can think of, nobody is going to force you to use crap software.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I tried Armed a few months ago... twice in fact. Neither the first or second beta worked. They'd unzip (no nice install, just unzip) and then they'd crash when I tried to loadlin the system. Same system, WinLinux 2000 worked almost perfect on the first time. Not impressed with Armed, but I'd recommend WinLinux 2000 to newbies looking to stick toes in the water... Seth
Help achieve Liberty in your lifetime - join the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org
This is a commonly held misconception. People need to check their facts before posting such erroneous data. WinLinux installs within the Windows environment, when you launch Linux, it boots into Linux, it does NOT run ON TOP of Windows... PLEASE please check your facts before posting stories. Christ....and get Hemos a spell checker, you people oughta be able to afford one, now that you've sold out.
( e.g. - "Based on Red Hat Linux, with our additional tools," "Based on Debian, Plus Our Stuff," ...)
And whatever other information would be important to allow other people to know how to expect to support it.
It may not matter to the Naive New User That Is Trying It Out, but it sure would be useful for me to know such details if that Naive New User happens to come to me for help.
This may not be in their interests if they planned to provide paid support contracts, but that's not consistent with the ``Best Effort Support'' that the site indicates that they intend to offer...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.