See Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going. [hevanet.com] if you don't believe me.
Wow, one of the dumbest Microsoft bashing articles I ever read.
> I should buy.NET Studio to write apps in C#, C, C++ or VB? No. Please do some research before posting. You can download.Net Framework SDK from here http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default. asp?ur l=/downloads/sample.asp?url=/msdn-files/027/000/97 6/msdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true
and you will get pretty much the same stuff you get with JDK - all the libraries, docs and command line compilers for C#, VB, C++ and JScript
> One thing to remember is they will be debugging only "currently supported" products. All those individuals and small companies still running Win95 and Win 3.x for compatibility and/or financial reasons are still screwed.
All these people running Linux 1.x are equally screwed.
> I have about 5 friends that regretably work for the evil empire in the Redmond campus. Hey a buck is a buck.
They probably work as janitors then. It is impossible they did not hear that if they are developers.
Are you talking of XP Pro or of XP Server?
If it is about server - it is still Beta software. If it is workstation - I highly doubt that you are running IIS 6 which is only available in server. Pro has IIS 5.1
May be you should do some little research before doing such statements about ASP in IIS 6.0 ?
Just... maybe ?
I heard from web many places (i.e. slashdot ) that TUX webserver is running in Linux kernel. May be this is a bad thing ? Executing PHP code in kernel memory ? Just... maybe?
So shipping a product tied with other products surely can hurt innovation. They whole system is set up to keep competition going. Things like that basically kill it. The government is there partly to make sure it keeps going. They can step in when they need to, and if this isn't a good reason to, I don't know what is.
So we should probably prohibit shipping Linux Distros with the typical load of applications, because it will hurt innovation. People will use Mozilla, PostgreSQL and Evolution instead of say Opera, Oracle, [name your groupware client here]
> On the other hand, what would ANYONE be doing, putting, say, JScript handlers next to a JPEG parser? Sure, JScript code -may- refer to images, but that's not a requirement. It makes no sense, either from the perspective of the programmer or from the OS. (The user doesn't care what's combined where, because they can't see that level of detail.)
Well, you know, JScript is in the separate DLL in IE. It can be updated separately and is used not only by IE.
Actually I was warned about MSN DSL outage due to Northpoint bankrupcy the same day Northpoint declared it. I had DSL access for three days after that. MSN gave me 6 month free dialup and some other goodies to compensate for that. So I don't feel screwd by MSN, I am mostly angry at NorthPoint.
> But he makes a great point. You can't have all OOP and no procedural skills. and you see it time and time again. If all you know how to us is a hammer, pretty soon everything looks like a nail.
Huh ? What is object in most OOP languages ? It is data AND methods. If you don't have procedural skills - how can you code methods?
Sorry for vague posting. I tried to say that there is no way now for you to write 'safe' (in.Net terms) code using Microsoft C++ compiler which is available through http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/
even using so-called Managed Extensions for C++.
As far as I know C++ code will always be 'unsafe'.
I mean there will be no possibility to write 'safe' code even using managed C++. Managed C++ just adds extensions for garbage collected classes and such.
Looks like you are the uninformed one here. Actually dotNet framework allows code to access hardware only if it is marked as unsafe. And nothing prevents developers of for instance IE or SQL Server to make it run only safe code.
Mercury folks did not said that JVM is unsuitable for languages like C/C++. They mentioned that.Net VM is better suited for languages like Lisp or Haskell which heavily use recursion.
Only on the.NET platform can you embed Fujitsu COBOL in an ASP page. I mean it's truly revolutionary.
The only revolution I want to involving COBOL very closely resembles the French revolution. Guilotines and all.
As well as Scheme, Eifell, Oberon, Python , Perl, VB, and probably your beloved Java, if somebody will implement it for Common Language Runitme.
you can name your source files anything you want.
For some reason they seem to think this is important. I fail to see it. Skinable filenames?
Try changing classmane and package structure in big java project which lives in CVS.
Yep, I know.
And this even works, until your project grows and compile times skyrocket. After that all that hoopla with compilation firewalls starts.
And you have to provide headers anyway if you want to create a class library without source.
The work that we've done with attributes -- a feature used to add typed, extensible metadata to any object -- is completely new and innovative. I haven't seen it in any other programming language
OK, so he's either an idiot or a liar.
Tell me about mainstream language which has this feature. You know, attributes in C# are just C# objects. You may create your own and write your own tools which will use reflection to get attributes from class.
Hey, this just means that you may write one class
in a file, or two classes in a file, or two classes in two files. You don't have to unnaturally separate declaration and definition as it is the case with C++ headers and impls.
Also you may add things like COM info to the class as well, or XML serailization schema. This is actually pretty cool. Nobody forces you to put the whole project in one file. You are just allowed to keep relaetd things in one place. It is that simple.
Generally really decent analisys. Only on thing to note - Microsoft did not published anything but the language reference itself. Are you sure that it does not have libraries for that beast ? I think we have to wait for some time before making any statements about lack of libraries and such stuff.
Slashdot Mirror
See Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going. [hevanet.com] if you don't believe me.
Wow, one of the dumbest Microsoft bashing articles I ever read.
> I should buy .NET Studio to write apps in C#, C, C++ or VB? .Net Framework SDK from here. asp?ur l=/downloads/sample.asp?url=/msdn-files/027/000/97 6/msdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true
No. Please do some research before posting.
You can download
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default
and you will get pretty much the same stuff you get with JDK - all the libraries, docs and command line compilers for C#, VB, C++ and JScript
> One thing to remember is they will be debugging only "currently supported" products. All those individuals and small companies still running Win95 and Win 3.x for compatibility and/or financial reasons are still screwed.
All these people running Linux 1.x are equally screwed.
> I have about 5 friends that regretably work for the evil empire in the Redmond campus. Hey a buck is a buck.
They probably work as janitors then. It is impossible they did not hear that if they are developers.
Are you talking of XP Pro or of XP Server?
If it is about server - it is still Beta software. If it is workstation - I highly doubt that you are running IIS 6 which is only available in server. Pro has IIS 5.1
May be you should do some little research before doing such statements about ASP in IIS 6.0 ?
Just... maybe ?
I heard from web many places (i.e. slashdot ) that TUX webserver is running in Linux kernel. May be this is a bad thing ? Executing PHP code in kernel memory ? Just... maybe?
As somebody already pointed out this article is dated by 1997. As far as I know freenet was not available at that time.
However, with the subscription fees in XP
Where did you get it ??? There is no subscription fee in XP as it is now. Don't spread FUD, please
So shipping a product tied with other products surely can hurt innovation. They whole system is set up to keep competition going. Things like that basically kill it. The government is there partly to make sure it keeps going. They can step in when they need to, and if this isn't a good reason to, I don't know what is.
So we should probably prohibit shipping Linux Distros with the typical load of applications, because it will hurt innovation. People will use Mozilla, PostgreSQL and Evolution instead of say Opera, Oracle, [name your groupware client here]
> On the other hand, what would ANYONE be doing, putting, say, JScript handlers next to a JPEG parser? Sure, JScript code -may- refer to images, but that's not a requirement. It makes no sense, either from the perspective of the programmer or from the OS. (The user doesn't care what's combined where, because they can't see that level of detail.)
Well, you know, JScript is in the separate DLL in IE. It can be updated separately and is used not only by IE.
Actually I was warned about MSN DSL outage due to Northpoint bankrupcy the same day Northpoint declared it. I had DSL access for three days after that. MSN gave me 6 month free dialup and some other goodies to compensate for that. So I don't feel screwd by MSN, I am mostly angry at NorthPoint.
> But he makes a great point. You can't have all OOP and no procedural skills. and you see it time and time again. If all you know how to us is a hammer, pretty soon everything looks like a nail.
Huh ? What is object in most OOP languages ? It is data AND methods. If you don't have procedural skills - how can you code methods?
Sorry for vague posting. I tried to say that there is no way now for you to write 'safe' (in .Net terms) code using Microsoft C++ compiler which is available through http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/
even using so-called Managed Extensions for C++.
As far as I know C++ code will always be 'unsafe'.
I mean there will be no possibility to write 'safe' code even using managed C++. Managed C++ just adds extensions for garbage collected classes and such.
Looks like you are the uninformed one here. Actually dotNet framework allows code to access hardware only if it is marked as unsafe. And nothing prevents developers of for instance IE or SQL Server to make it run only safe code. .Net VM is better suited for languages like Lisp or Haskell which heavily use recursion.
Mercury folks did not said that JVM is unsuitable for languages like C/C++. They mentioned that
Only on the .NET platform can you embed Fujitsu COBOL in an ASP page.
I mean it's truly revolutionary.
The only revolution I want to involving COBOL very closely resembles the French revolution. Guilotines and all.
As well as Scheme, Eifell, Oberon, Python , Perl, VB, and probably your beloved Java, if somebody will implement it for Common Language Runitme.
you can name your source files anything you want.
Try changing classmane and package structure in big java project which lives in CVS.For some reason they seem to think this is important. I fail to see it. Skinable filenames?
Yep, I know.
And this even works, until your project grows and compile times skyrocket. After that all that hoopla with compilation firewalls starts.
And you have to provide headers anyway if you want to create a class library without source.
The work that we've done with attributes -- a feature used to add typed, extensible metadata to any object -- is completely new and innovative. I haven't seen it in any other programming language
OK, so he's either an idiot or a liar.
Tell me about mainstream language which has this feature. You know, attributes in C# are just C# objects. You may create your own and write your own tools which will use reflection to get attributes from class.
Hey, this just means that you may write one class
in a file, or two classes in a file, or two classes in two files. You don't have to unnaturally separate declaration and definition as it is the case with C++ headers and impls.
Also you may add things like COM info to the class as well, or XML serailization schema. This is actually pretty cool. Nobody forces you to put the whole project in one file. You are just allowed to keep relaetd things in one place. It is that simple.
Generally really decent analisys. Only on thing to note - Microsoft did not published anything
but the language reference itself. Are you sure
that it does not have libraries for that beast ?
I think we have to wait for some time before making any statements about lack of libraries and such stuff.