My first programming class was in Pascal in high school Computer Science AP. We learned on early-model Macintoshes. And yes, I'm referring to those really small boxes with black and white screens that are generally confused with paperweights (even in 1991).
Why would my school teach programming on these boxes? Quite simply because that is what my school had to work with.
Did it affect my ability to learn Pascal? Not really because I was learning introductory Pascal. The fact that it was on a Mac was irrelevant.
The argument regarding compiler differences is relatively minor. We're talking about an entry-level course. They're not going to be using pthreads or the Windows GDI or wacky permutations of templates. Entry-level courses in C++ include such advanced topics as cout, variable declaration anywhere prior to use, function overloading and basic class definitions. These are highly portable constructs. You'd have to go to an old HP-UX box to have these exhibit conflicting behavior with g++ or Visual C++.
The sticking point is whether or not the teacher is encouraging the use of platform-specific additions to the language (such as Microsoft's DWORD -- and yes I know it's just a #define) or non-standard libraries. If this is the case, it doesn't matter even if g++ is being used; the learning experience with regards to programming is diminished.
On the other hand, if the instructor is making a concerted effort to follow the dictates of the language and, even better, teaches the principles behind the language, it shouldn't matter the platform. Once out of school, very few of us actually get to work in our ideal environment. Better to learn the ability to adapt earlier rather than later.
And last, but definitely important despite the fact that it hasn't been brought up yet is the skill level of the teacher. If a teacher knows g++, CodeWarrior, Visual C++ and Billy Bo Bob's C++ compiler, all of these compilers are resonably close to the ISO C++ spec and knows Billy Bo Bob's C++ compiler much better than the others, that teacher *should* teach via BBB's C++ compiler as long as the coursework follows the ISO standard.
If the student wants to use g++, fine. Great! Stupendous! Code them in g++ and then make sure they compile on BBB's C++ compiler. 99% of the time in an entry-level class, they will compile in both with no modifications. In the event they don't, it will give good insight into the differences between compilers.
Many times I have found that when I switched between two compilers, the errors that came up were not the fault of one of the compilers. Rather it was my code that was making assumptions about the presence of a quirk in the other compiler.
Being mindful of free software and standards is important. Being close-minded to alternatives, free or no, is a death-knell to the learning process.
Having gone to Santa Cruz, it doesn't surprise me that they would be so willing to publish educational/scientific material online. It makes me proud to have been a banana slug (mascot of UCSC).
The results may not be the definitive work, but it is definitely a huge leap in the right direction. I really wouldn't be surprised if we hear more from the bio-chem labs there soon.
Monica Lewinski... OJ Simpson... Whitewater... and on and on and on...
Point of order! A few stations tried to stop covering OJ when things were out of hand. And what happened? Their ratings dropped like a rock. If anything, it's not the media outlets or information that's out of control. Aside from the point brought up by others that information and media are not biological entities, the root cause is ourselves.
Stings a little doesn't it? Knowing that we are all part of the problem.
Don't want to hear about cum stains on some blue dress over and over again? You have to stop watching it! The fact that it stays on means that you or others around you are watching those "news" stories and buying the products advertised during the commercials no matter have stale or sensational the content may be.
Want to stick it to the media outlets? Grab everyone you know that is fixated on some inane news item and force them to go out and watch "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" or start a book club or go outside and throw a frisbee or have an orgy or ANYTHING OTHER THAN WATCHING THE REGURGITATED NEWS STORIES!!!
Now pardon me, I have to go watch and see who GWB is trying to appoint and who's opposed to it.:)
Wasn't ReiserFS supposed to be released with the next (this?) version of SuSE? If so, why isn't there any mention of this supposedly fast, journalling(!!!) filesystem? If not, what happened?
It definitely would've have counted as a deciding factor over other distributions with regards to getting installed on more enterprise-class servers.
I would think that XFree86 has one of the largest installed base of X-Servers. Let's see... Of all Linux and BSD installs which include some kind of X-Server, XFree86 is probably installed on 99.9%.
Not to be a party-pooper, but maybe the article shouldn't have read "XFree86 joins X.Org," but instead, "XFree86 joins X.Org... FINALLY!"
> Do all these couch potato kids need another > game machine? Do parents need another thing > that breaks?
Note: I am aware that the following is anecdotal.
I have
never met a computer programmer who hadn't played computer games extensively in their youth.
Do I mean that everyone who plays computer games turns out to be a programmer or otherwise computer-proficient? Of course not. However there does appear to be a pattern. Games, however innocuous we may think they are at the time, many times very effectively teach abstract problem solving skills, and they definitely teach step-by-step methodology and pattern recognition. I assert that people who play (have played) a lot of computer games will be better equipped to learn/understand a computer-related task than the person who has no computer interaction.
Your comment about parents don't need another thing that breaks is truly spurious. Asthma inhalers sometimes break so why get them for your kids? The answer is because the alternative is detrimental to your child's welfare. A computer may not help your child breath easier, but it can land them some skills for financial security when they get older. Computer literacy is applicable for us (I'm 25) and our kids today what typing was for our parents: it may not be necessary to survive and make a life for yourself, but it can definitely help.
With regards to your comment about libraries, more people have been in a library than on the net while the net is arguably more convenient. And in the same way that knowing where the libraries are and how to use a library is definitely better than not knowing, being on the net doesn't make you a better person, but not knowing how or why to get on the net is a liability. People don't need to know how to read. There are plenty of people who get along just fine while being illiterate or at least functionally illiterate, but I don't think there is any sane person on slashdot (or the entire net) that would recommend against literacy.
And if a family is Mormon, Hindi, Muslim, Jewish, Shinto, Buddhist, Aetheist or Taoist where do these kids go?
The public school system, and consequently the public, needs to take proper responsibility for education. Public school systems were based on an industrial (assembly line) model. The US has been moving away from this model in the adult world for years, but the school systems haven't caught up yet.
While radical changes may be necessary, including perhaps the *cough* eloquent notion to "scrap it" and start over, the proposed solution of switching over to private schools stinks of dogma that believes that if enough money is thrown at a problem, the problem will go away.
We all need to take responsibility and stop treating our kids like poor performing stocks. Passing the educational problems this country has solely on parents', teachers' and/or politicians' shoulders and whining about the piss poor results so far is counter-productive.
How many of the critics of the public education system, the TCM, the various school administrations, et al have EVER volunteered their time at a local school or one of its functions (on purpose) since they graduated high school?
Stop blaming everyone else and ignoring everyone else's kid. Put up or shut up.
To the teenagers listening: I can't offer any quick fixes or apparent all-encompasing solutions for you. The only consolation I can give is that it eventually gets better.
And if a family is Mormon, Hindi, Muslim, Jewish, Shinto, Buddhist, Aetheist or Taoist where do these kids go? The public school system, and consequently the public, needs to take proper responsibility for education. Public school systems were based on an industrial (assembly line) model. The US has been moving away from this model in the adult world for years, but the school systems haven't caught up yet. While radical changes may be necessary, including perhaps the *cough* eloquent notion to "scrap it" and start over, the proposed solution of switching over to private schools stinks of dogma that believes that if enough money is thrown at a problem, the problem will go away. We all need to take responsibility and stop treating our kids like poor performing stocks. Passing the educational problems this country has solely on parents', teachers' and/or politicians' shoulders and whining about the piss poor results so far is counter-productive. How many of the critics of the public education system, the TCM, the various school administrations, et al have EVER volunteered their time at a local school or one of its functions (on purpose) since they graduated high school? Stop blaming everyone else and ignoring everyone else's kid. Put up or shut up. To the teenagers listening: I can't offer any quick fixes or apparent all-encompasing solutions for you. The only consolation I can give is that it eventually gets better.
Slashdot Mirror
My first programming class was in Pascal in high school Computer Science AP. We learned on early-model Macintoshes. And yes, I'm referring to those really small boxes with black and white screens that are generally confused with paperweights (even in 1991).
Why would my school teach programming on these boxes? Quite simply because that is what my school had to work with.
Did it affect my ability to learn Pascal? Not really because I was learning introductory Pascal. The fact that it was on a Mac was irrelevant.
The argument regarding compiler differences is relatively minor. We're talking about an entry-level course. They're not going to be using pthreads or the Windows GDI or wacky permutations of templates. Entry-level courses in C++ include such advanced topics as cout, variable declaration anywhere prior to use, function overloading and basic class definitions. These are highly portable constructs. You'd have to go to an old HP-UX box to have these exhibit conflicting behavior with g++ or Visual C++.
The sticking point is whether or not the teacher is encouraging the use of platform-specific additions to the language (such as Microsoft's DWORD -- and yes I know it's just a #define) or non-standard libraries. If this is the case, it doesn't matter even if g++ is being used; the learning experience with regards to programming is diminished.
On the other hand, if the instructor is making a concerted effort to follow the dictates of the language and, even better, teaches the principles behind the language, it shouldn't matter the platform. Once out of school, very few of us actually get to work in our ideal environment. Better to learn the ability to adapt earlier rather than later.
And last, but definitely important despite the fact that it hasn't been brought up yet is the skill level of the teacher. If a teacher knows g++, CodeWarrior, Visual C++ and Billy Bo Bob's C++ compiler, all of these compilers are resonably close to the ISO C++ spec and knows Billy Bo Bob's C++ compiler much better than the others, that teacher *should* teach via BBB's C++ compiler as long as the coursework follows the ISO standard.
If the student wants to use g++, fine. Great! Stupendous! Code them in g++ and then make sure they compile on BBB's C++ compiler. 99% of the time in an entry-level class, they will compile in both with no modifications. In the event they don't, it will give good insight into the differences between compilers.
Many times I have found that when I switched between two compilers, the errors that came up were not the fault of one of the compilers. Rather it was my code that was making assumptions about the presence of a quirk in the other compiler.
Being mindful of free software and standards is important. Being close-minded to alternatives, free or no, is a death-knell to the learning process.
My $0.02
Having gone to Santa Cruz, it doesn't surprise me that they would be so willing to publish educational/scientific material online. It makes me proud to have been a banana slug (mascot of UCSC).
The results may not be the definitive work, but it is definitely a huge leap in the right direction. I really wouldn't be surprised if we hear more from the bio-chem labs there soon.
Monica Lewinski... OJ Simpson... Whitewater... and on and on and on...
:)
Point of order! A few stations tried to stop covering OJ when things were out of hand. And what happened? Their ratings dropped like a rock. If anything, it's not the media outlets or information that's out of control. Aside from the point brought up by others that information and media are not biological entities, the root cause is ourselves.
Stings a little doesn't it? Knowing that we are all part of the problem.
Don't want to hear about cum stains on some blue dress over and over again? You have to stop watching it! The fact that it stays on means that you or others around you are watching those "news" stories and buying the products advertised during the commercials no matter have stale or sensational the content may be.
Want to stick it to the media outlets? Grab everyone you know that is fixated on some inane news item and force them to go out and watch "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" or start a book club or go outside and throw a frisbee or have an orgy or ANYTHING OTHER THAN WATCHING THE REGURGITATED NEWS STORIES!!!
Now pardon me, I have to go watch and see who GWB is trying to appoint and who's opposed to it.
Wasn't ReiserFS supposed to be released with the next (this?) version of SuSE? If so, why isn't there any mention of this supposedly fast, journalling(!!!) filesystem? If not, what happened?
It definitely would've have counted as a deciding factor over other distributions with regards to getting installed on more enterprise-class servers.
I would think that XFree86 has one of the largest installed base of X-Servers. Let's see... Of all Linux and BSD installs which include some kind of X-Server, XFree86 is probably installed on 99.9%.
Not to be a party-pooper, but maybe the article shouldn't have read "XFree86 joins X.Org," but instead, "XFree86 joins X.Org... FINALLY!"
Just my observations on the matter...
Note: I am aware that the following is anecdotal.
Do I mean that everyone who plays computer games turns out to be a programmer or otherwise computer-proficient? Of course not. However there does appear to be a pattern. Games, however innocuous we may think they are at the time, many times very effectively teach abstract problem solving skills, and they definitely teach step-by-step methodology and pattern recognition.
I assert that people who play (have played) a lot of computer games will be better equipped to learn/understand a computer-related task than the person who has no computer interaction.
Your comment about parents don't need another thing that breaks is truly spurious. Asthma inhalers sometimes break so why get them for your kids? The answer is because the alternative is detrimental to your child's welfare.
A computer may not help your child breath easier, but it can land them some skills for financial security when they get older. Computer literacy is applicable for us (I'm 25) and our kids today what typing was for our parents: it may not be necessary to survive and make a life for yourself, but it can definitely help.
With regards to your comment about libraries, more people have been in a library than on the net while the net is arguably more convenient. And in the same way that knowing where the libraries are and how to use a library is definitely better than not knowing, being on the net doesn't make you a better person, but not knowing how or why to get on the net is a liability.
People don't need to know how to read. There are plenty of people who get along just fine while being illiterate or at least functionally illiterate, but I don't think there is any sane person on slashdot (or the entire net) that would recommend against literacy.
And if a family is Mormon, Hindi, Muslim, Jewish, Shinto, Buddhist, Aetheist or Taoist where do these kids go?
The public school system, and consequently the public, needs to take proper responsibility for education. Public school systems were based on an industrial (assembly line) model. The US has been moving away from this model in the adult world for years, but the school systems haven't caught up yet.
While radical changes may be necessary, including perhaps the *cough* eloquent notion to "scrap it" and start over, the proposed solution of switching over to private schools stinks of dogma that believes that if enough money is thrown at a problem, the problem will go away.
We all need to take responsibility and stop treating our kids like poor performing stocks. Passing the educational problems this country has solely on parents', teachers' and/or politicians' shoulders and whining about the piss poor results so far is counter-productive.
How many of the critics of the public education system, the TCM, the various school administrations, et al have EVER volunteered their time at a local school or one of its functions (on purpose) since they graduated high school?
Stop blaming everyone else and ignoring everyone else's kid. Put up or shut up.
To the teenagers listening: I can't offer any quick fixes or apparent all-encompasing solutions for you. The only consolation I can give is that it eventually gets better.
And if a family is Mormon, Hindi, Muslim, Jewish, Shinto, Buddhist, Aetheist or Taoist where do these kids go?
The public school system, and consequently the public, needs to take proper responsibility for education. Public school systems were based on an industrial (assembly line) model. The US has been moving away from this model in the adult world for years, but the school systems haven't caught up yet.
While radical changes may be necessary, including perhaps the *cough* eloquent notion to "scrap it" and start over, the proposed solution of switching over to private schools stinks of dogma that believes that if enough money is thrown at a problem, the problem will go away.
We all need to take responsibility and stop treating our kids like poor performing stocks. Passing the educational problems this country has solely on parents', teachers' and/or politicians' shoulders and whining about the piss poor results so far is counter-productive.
How many of the critics of the public education system, the TCM, the various school administrations, et al have EVER volunteered their time at a local school or one of its functions (on purpose) since they graduated high school?
Stop blaming everyone else and ignoring everyone else's kid. Put up or shut up.
To the teenagers listening: I can't offer any quick fixes or apparent all-encompasing solutions for you. The only consolation I can give is that it eventually gets better.