I'm waiting for Y-Windows, personally. They've been making great strides on their core widget set. They plan an initial X compatibility layer, but other than that it's a completely rewrite abandoning X all together.
You seriously thought MSFT cares about languages other than C# and VB.NET?
Microsoft does care about developers (Developers, developers, developers!). You can write managed C, C++, Visual Basic, and other code (even J++). With Mono, I expect even more.NET bindings. It's not all C#...though that's going to be the primarily-used language in time.
I think Havoc is off base with the XAML comments. XAML will only be usable with the arrival of Longhorn which is in, what, 2008 now?
Okay, I'm sick of this. Microsoft never gave a release date for Longhorn. They said they were targetting late 2005. Then, they changed and said they'd like to hit late 2005, but early 2006 looked more possible.
They haven't changed since. But since then, Slashdotters have endlessly called Longhorn "vaporware" and even completely made up years like you just have. 2008? Give me a break.
Like they always have, Microsoft will clearly tell you early 2006 is what they're aiming for. They haven't changed since that first announcement. I don't get the big deal over jumping on them for a target release year. Linux 2.6 came out WAY later than was originally targetted.
If this guy really wants a mono or java desktop then let him fork gnome and code it his way. Prove that java/mono is the better way.
When did Slashdot adopt this ridiculous all-or-nothing mindset that permeates all discussions now?
There is no "mono or java desktop." We simply have C# for Linux now.
WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? Sorry, but it had to be asked. All these people bitching about absolutely nothing. Another language added to Gnome in the future. Great, add it to the list (C, C++, Python, Java, etc.). Even if Gnome's insides were coded in C#, it wouldn't matter because the nature of.NET (and therefore Mono, I presume) is that you can use any language you want. Ever heard of VISUAL BASIC.NET? Okay, good.
I guess you forgot that part of the beauty of.NET, and therefore Mono presumably, is that you don't have to code in C# to take advantage of it. Microsoft has documented this for years. Visual Basic.NET, anyone?
You can have all these run-time binaries coded in various different languages, and it doesn't matter to the virtual machine. It couldn't care less.
Mono and KDE seem to have the right idea. They're making what looks like a first class development platform. With the limited time I have to code, if the development platform is working against me, I'm going to drop it. Gnome's development tools are awful. Kdevelop is much better, and Mono looks promising.
Uh, there's talk of Gnome 3.0 going almost entirely Mono. If you like Mono, what's the problem with Gnome?
I don't get this fear of change that many Linux users have. We have to keep moving forward. Apple and Microsoft are full-steam ahead and we're stuck still writing little transparency extensions for our X servers and trying to get fonts not to suck.
It's called spacial navigation. It's the reason Apple's older versions of Finder were so beloved. You weren't using a "browser" that listed the contents of the directories on your computer. When you opened a folder, it popped open its own window with no toolbar. Users treated it like they were actually looking at the folder itself. The same thing with icons--they considered them not representations of their files but the files themselves. It's a more human and logical way of dealing with interacting with a computer.
Microsoft and Linux desktops have people so weened on "browsers" that people have forgotten the intuitiveness of the previous solutions. I handle the tech support within my company. When I'm helping them look for a file, they are COMPLETELY CONFUSED by "Back" buttons and "Move up" buttons when looking through folders. They don't relate to the concept of a browser looking through their filesystem. To them, when you tell them to double-click "Stuff" on their desktop, they're really opening the Stuff folder. I have yet to see them ever use "Back" or "Up" or even the Address bar, because to them the concepts are bizarre and foreign and unnatural.
Do a search for "spacial navigation" sometime. Arstechnica has an excellent article about it, describing a concept of a redesigned OS X Finder.
...right, while KDE recreates the Windows mistakes of taskbars, endless sidebars, too many buttons, a start menu full of redundancies (Control Center, Preferences, System, etc.), "More Programs" subgroups for absolutely no good reason, and a monstrous Control Center.
I think GNOME and KDE both have a long way to go before they can even be considered in the same league as Windows 95. Sorry, it's how I feel.
My god, GNOME has a registry. It's just another way of storing config information. As if KDE doens't store the same kind of info simply in different ways.
If you mention the strange slowness, people will blame X. But then you ask around, and "experts" tell you X is just fine, and that it's the poor window managers. Talk to the window manager guys and they blame the library guys. Someone else is always to blame, and if you complain, they blame you for not "sending a patch."
Wow. Linus Torvalds joining SCO. That would be unlikely, which makes it funny. Because, like, he's the creator of Linux, and SCO is suing Linux companies.
This was clever, witty, lucent, and well-deserving of its funny marks. I'm also not sarcastic.
Y-Windows is the future. Read the PDF paper on the site, which explains perfectly all the reasons for completely discarding X aside from a mere compatibility layer for those who are stubborn.
Y plans to have a 1.0 release within a year. Let's help out...they're the first real project I've seen actually attempting a seamless replacement of the failed experiment (IMO) that is X.
You know, I hear over and over about how "flawed" MDI is supposed to be. People like you get really condescending about it for some reason. No need to be hostile--it's just some free graphics app on the net.
MDI doesn't seem to have stopped Photoshop's monstrous success over the decades, now has it?
Now, I don't know about you, but when I sit someone down to a new graphics app, and they're instantly confused with all the floating windows that don't appear to be attached to any particular application, and then they go over to Paint Shop Pro and do just fine, it tells me something.
Isn't that treating the symptom and not the cause?
I don't get the big deal over making Gimp not take five windows. It seems like just one of those things people are stubborn about for absolutely no good reason.
I'm using Gentoo and have all font rendering with the best options turned on, with the Windows fonts installed. I have everything from letters that are thicker than others, to curves and diagonals that are much thinner and almost transparent at smaller sizes like 10pt and even 12pt. Digits in particular seem to be an especially nasty problem.
The font rendering in Linux is absolutely fine, it's just the shortage of good manually-hinted fonts that makes things look awful.
This is just simply not true. The same fonts look absolutely fantastic in Windows. In Linux, they're blocky, misshaped, and have varying levels of thickness. Your mileage may vary, but I'd seriously like to know what magic you're casting that I'm not! It's been this way for years. I won't even get into LCD subpixel rendering--talk about a complete ugly mess.
Letters have different thicknesses, some things, like the Times New Roman number "2" at about 10pt has a middle part that almost completely disappears. I always hear constantly about how "better" the font rendering is supposed to be from guys like you, but I have never, ever seen it.
I have tried various distros, even compiling things myself with the interpeter turned on, etc. It still looks flat-out awful, particularly italics.
Sorry, they are NOT easier on the eyes than Windows XP. That's absurd and a flat-out lie--outside of Slashdot, everyone acknowledges OS X and Windows have much superior font rendering. Using my Gentoo laptop for more than a few hours gives me headaches, and I've tried font after font, including the Windows fonts.
This is not a dig at the Freetype project composed of volunteers. But to say it's actually "better" than Windows is blind fanboy-ism.
Look who the editor is who posted it
on
Melting Europa
·
· Score: 1
Seriously. Whenever I see a really bizarre article posting, especially a bizarre editorial commentary afterward, I know when I look under the headline that it will say "michael."
Remember that one time he was TYPING IN ALL CAPS TO FLAME INTEL FOR NOT MENTIONING A COMPETITOR IN THEIR 64-BIT CHIP PRESS RELEASE? Immaturity.
gnu.org seems to be down right now, so here's the google cache link.
Yeah, it's down for me as well as of this writing. Yet, I don't think Slashdot will be breathlessly reporting it as front page news, will they? Not like they did with the "Hotmail was down for four hours last Saturday" article we saw yesterday!
Just funny. Even this article about a TV law show set in the future has an out-of-the-blue OSS/SCO tie-in. Slashdot is sometimes extremely OSS-biased, and it's really outrageous sometimes.
How the heck did the submitter find a way to tie in "Open Source values" into the summary? It's a law show set 25 years in the future. Why the heck would it care about tying in Open Source advocacy issues?
Slashdot Mirror
I'm waiting for Y-Windows, personally. They've been making great strides on their core widget set. They plan an initial X compatibility layer, but other than that it's a completely rewrite abandoning X all together.
You seriously thought MSFT cares about languages other than C# and VB.NET?
.NET bindings. It's not all C#...though that's going to be the primarily-used language in time.
Microsoft does care about developers (Developers, developers, developers!). You can write managed C, C++, Visual Basic, and other code (even J++). With Mono, I expect even more
I think Havoc is off base with the XAML comments. XAML will only be usable with the arrival of Longhorn which is in, what, 2008 now?
Okay, I'm sick of this. Microsoft never gave a release date for Longhorn. They said they were targetting late 2005. Then, they changed and said they'd like to hit late 2005, but early 2006 looked more possible.
They haven't changed since. But since then, Slashdotters have endlessly called Longhorn "vaporware" and even completely made up years like you just have. 2008? Give me a break.
Like they always have, Microsoft will clearly tell you early 2006 is what they're aiming for. They haven't changed since that first announcement. I don't get the big deal over jumping on them for a target release year. Linux 2.6 came out WAY later than was originally targetted.
Nobody said there would only be one way.
Problem solved.
If this guy really wants a mono or java desktop then let him fork gnome and code it his way. Prove that java/mono is the better way.
.NET (and therefore Mono, I presume) is that you can use any language you want. Ever heard of VISUAL BASIC .NET? Okay, good.
When did Slashdot adopt this ridiculous all-or-nothing mindset that permeates all discussions now?
There is no "mono or java desktop." We simply have C# for Linux now.
WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? Sorry, but it had to be asked. All these people bitching about absolutely nothing. Another language added to Gnome in the future. Great, add it to the list (C, C++, Python, Java, etc.). Even if Gnome's insides were coded in C#, it wouldn't matter because the nature of
Language bindings are a nice thing, aren't they?
I guess you forgot that part of the beauty of .NET, and therefore Mono presumably, is that you don't have to code in C# to take advantage of it. Microsoft has documented this for years. Visual Basic .NET, anyone?
You can have all these run-time binaries coded in various different languages, and it doesn't matter to the virtual machine. It couldn't care less.
Mono and KDE seem to have the right idea. They're making what looks like a first class development platform. With the limited time I have to code, if the development platform is working against me, I'm going to drop it. Gnome's development tools are awful. Kdevelop is much better, and Mono looks promising.
Uh, there's talk of Gnome 3.0 going almost entirely Mono. If you like Mono, what's the problem with Gnome?
I don't get this fear of change that many Linux users have. We have to keep moving forward. Apple and Microsoft are full-steam ahead and we're stuck still writing little transparency extensions for our X servers and trying to get fonts not to suck.
It's called spacial navigation. It's the reason Apple's older versions of Finder were so beloved. You weren't using a "browser" that listed the contents of the directories on your computer. When you opened a folder, it popped open its own window with no toolbar. Users treated it like they were actually looking at the folder itself. The same thing with icons--they considered them not representations of their files but the files themselves. It's a more human and logical way of dealing with interacting with a computer.
Microsoft and Linux desktops have people so weened on "browsers" that people have forgotten the intuitiveness of the previous solutions. I handle the tech support within my company. When I'm helping them look for a file, they are COMPLETELY CONFUSED by "Back" buttons and "Move up" buttons when looking through folders. They don't relate to the concept of a browser looking through their filesystem. To them, when you tell them to double-click "Stuff" on their desktop, they're really opening the Stuff folder. I have yet to see them ever use "Back" or "Up" or even the Address bar, because to them the concepts are bizarre and foreign and unnatural.
Do a search for "spacial navigation" sometime. Arstechnica has an excellent article about it, describing a concept of a redesigned OS X Finder.
...right, while KDE recreates the Windows mistakes of taskbars, endless sidebars, too many buttons, a start menu full of redundancies (Control Center, Preferences, System, etc.), "More Programs" subgroups for absolutely no good reason, and a monstrous Control Center.
I think GNOME and KDE both have a long way to go before they can even be considered in the same league as Windows 95. Sorry, it's how I feel.
My god, GNOME has a registry. It's just another way of storing config information. As if KDE doens't store the same kind of info simply in different ways.
If you mention the strange slowness, people will blame X. But then you ask around, and "experts" tell you X is just fine, and that it's the poor window managers. Talk to the window manager guys and they blame the library guys. Someone else is always to blame, and if you complain, they blame you for not "sending a patch."
Wow. Linus Torvalds joining SCO. That would be unlikely, which makes it funny. Because, like, he's the creator of Linux, and SCO is suing Linux companies.
This was clever, witty, lucent, and well-deserving of its funny marks. I'm also not sarcastic.
Y-Windows is the future. Read the PDF paper on the site, which explains perfectly all the reasons for completely discarding X aside from a mere compatibility layer for those who are stubborn.
Y plans to have a 1.0 release within a year. Let's help out...they're the first real project I've seen actually attempting a seamless replacement of the failed experiment (IMO) that is X.
How many times has it changed its file selector in some way during its point releases?
Technology is a changing thing.
You know, I hear over and over about how "flawed" MDI is supposed to be. People like you get really condescending about it for some reason. No need to be hostile--it's just some free graphics app on the net.
MDI doesn't seem to have stopped Photoshop's monstrous success over the decades, now has it?
Now, I don't know about you, but when I sit someone down to a new graphics app, and they're instantly confused with all the floating windows that don't appear to be attached to any particular application, and then they go over to Paint Shop Pro and do just fine, it tells me something.
Isn't that treating the symptom and not the cause?
I don't get the big deal over making Gimp not take five windows. It seems like just one of those things people are stubborn about for absolutely no good reason.
Nor do they guarantee failure. Quoting cliches doesn't actually prove a point other than you can memorize cliches.
I'm using Gentoo and have all font rendering with the best options turned on, with the Windows fonts installed. I have everything from letters that are thicker than others, to curves and diagonals that are much thinner and almost transparent at smaller sizes like 10pt and even 12pt. Digits in particular seem to be an especially nasty problem.
The font rendering in Linux is absolutely fine, it's just the shortage of good manually-hinted fonts that makes things look awful.
This is just simply not true. The same fonts look absolutely fantastic in Windows. In Linux, they're blocky, misshaped, and have varying levels of thickness. Your mileage may vary, but I'd seriously like to know what magic you're casting that I'm not! It's been this way for years. I won't even get into LCD subpixel rendering--talk about a complete ugly mess.
Letters have different thicknesses, some things, like the Times New Roman number "2" at about 10pt has a middle part that almost completely disappears. I always hear constantly about how "better" the font rendering is supposed to be from guys like you, but I have never, ever seen it.
I have tried various distros, even compiling things myself with the interpeter turned on, etc. It still looks flat-out awful, particularly italics.
Sorry, they are NOT easier on the eyes than Windows XP. That's absurd and a flat-out lie--outside of Slashdot, everyone acknowledges OS X and Windows have much superior font rendering. Using my Gentoo laptop for more than a few hours gives me headaches, and I've tried font after font, including the Windows fonts.
This is not a dig at the Freetype project composed of volunteers. But to say it's actually "better" than Windows is blind fanboy-ism.
Seriously. Whenever I see a really bizarre article posting, especially a bizarre editorial commentary afterward, I know when I look under the headline that it will say "michael."
Remember that one time he was TYPING IN ALL CAPS TO FLAME INTEL FOR NOT MENTIONING A COMPETITOR IN THEIR 64-BIT CHIP PRESS RELEASE? Immaturity.
...Gnome 2.6, due out March 22nd.
gnu.org seems to be down right now, so here's the google cache link.
Yeah, it's down for me as well as of this writing. Yet, I don't think Slashdot will be breathlessly reporting it as front page news, will they? Not like they did with the "Hotmail was down for four hours last Saturday" article we saw yesterday!
Just funny. Even this article about a TV law show set in the future has an out-of-the-blue OSS/SCO tie-in. Slashdot is sometimes extremely OSS-biased, and it's really outrageous sometimes.
How the heck did the submitter find a way to tie in "Open Source values" into the summary? It's a law show set 25 years in the future. Why the heck would it care about tying in Open Source advocacy issues?
...the sysadmins.
Linux was shown as the most-breached OS on the net according to that study Slashdot posted, remember.
That was an on-purpose joke. Slashdot reported that fact long ago.
Also, it's not having a gaming kernel that's important, but having the actual games.
:)
I could have sworn I more or less said that.