"No the GPL ensures that your work can not be used by others a way you don't like."
I am not sure what you are getting at with your complete post, but this is not necessarily so.
I do use the GPL for a lot of my code. But people can still use my GPL code in ways that I do not like. This is because there are trade offs involved. This is so in most of life I find.
"If you want people to respect the GPL then you must respect copyright law in general."
This does not actually follow, or at best is a mis-stated point...
The GPL is an attempt at copyright-jitsu. It is perhaps an attempt to use copyright laws, which you may or may not agree with, but which you have to live with until they change, to undo some or all of the percieved ill effects of said laws.
So, it may actually boil down to this for some:
"I don't respect copyright laws, but if you want me to respect your copyrights, you need to respect the GPL..."
(I am not trying to accurately portray my personal take in the above.)
"Me either, since we're doing technophile-Luddite confessional hour."
In my case it is that I am a cheapscate in certain ways. I don't want to pay for calls where people call me. If I only paid for my own calls I might have one. Haven't missed it except at times.
A client paid for one for me once so they could reach me when they wanted and I carried one then.
I like tech well enough. You have issues with it? ~;-)
In this case one state, (the federal one) told the other states that the other states copyright laws were null and void and that their copyright laws trumped everything. (Is that about right?)
But those very states, can't be sued in the federal one's courts.
This is the basic problem set up here.
You can only bring copyright suits in the federal courts, not the state courts. Why? The feds say so...
You can't bring the states into the fed courts. (Except in specific limited circumstances and this seems not to be one.)
Impasse.
Fixable, but not necessarily in an easy and quick way.
"I maintain that copyright (i.e., reasonable and responsible copyright laws, the kind we had until the last couple of decades) remains the most effective way to encourage the arts and sciences while allowing all the benefits to pass into the public domain after a few years. Other methods have proven to be either arbitrary or unworkable or both."
Now this is a statement I probably agree with so long as the few years figure is close to correct. And that surprises me as this is not a Free market play, but a government monopolistic play. Shouldn't the Free Market be able to arrive at a better solution?
This does bring up another little point though. You may be arguing against a straw man.
The thought is not generally that works pass into the public domain on creation, but rather on publication in the absence of copyright laws. There is a huge difference in those two ways of looking at things.
"In fact, if you read the Constitution, you will see that the abilities to copyright and patent were expressly provided for in order to further the general public good."
Care to quote it and explain it in some detail? I have certainly never read it like you seem to be explaining it.
And so move to fail one of my personal rules of thumb.
I don't mind too much people who dual license GPL code. I don't like projects which have "enterprise" versions and community versions with different code bases.
Give better support for your "enterprise" customers, fine. Well, we will see how this works out I guess, but this is just another of Sun's boneheaded moves in my book if this is what they are doing. They have twittered away so much potential and good will over the years with their inability to make up their minds and strongly back Free Software. And the funny thing is, IBM is not necessarily a whole lot better but somehow they seem to manage not to shoot themselves in the foot the way Sun seems to...
1. write app to check if customer has av, asw,fw software installed. 2. if yes, conduct transaction; goto 1 3. if no, conduct transaction; clean out account; goto 1 4. Profit!!!!
So, a beneficial use of GOTO? And no ??? at point 3. but still...
I was just thinking of writing a do nothing program and calling it an anti-spyware program for linux and claiming that it catches all known linux spyware... before I read your post...
True, but then neither can the vendors and others. Right?
When they advertise that their system is so easy, anyone can do it. It is really intuitive. Then they can hardly come back and say that the problem was due to lack of proper training on the part of the users. They just got finished selling the system on the premise that no training was needed.
And in the case of banks, if they require a particular, OS, browser, other settings to work, they can hardly properly claim that the customer is fully liable.
But, even though this may be brain dead, if it scares people into looking into the situation more closely, it may do some good despite being borked.
Here let me offer up a lame theory... just for fun...
The music industry has primarily sold rebellion and sex, drugs, and rock and roll. They have sold defiance of authority.
So they tried to mold their target audience into rebellious lifestyles.
Let's just pretend their "plans" worked.
Oops. Unintended problem.
"OK, kids, we know we told you not to respect laws, but there is one exception. Copyright laws. You need to respect those. Mmk, thx, now go out and steal something and hock it and come buy some music. it's good for you."
"most cholesterol is produced in you body and has little to do with what you eat e.g. some people can eat stake all day and be fine other can eat nothing but lattice and have a cholesterol problem."
I am not sure I wood eat either one of those. Wood you? ~;-)
First, If I am on any side here, it is yours on this issue.
So you are right, but you are wrong if you are in their twisted world.
You say:
"No copyright holder is in any way harmed by allowing DJs for format shift."
Right, but not in their world. In their world a copyright holder is harmed because if he wasn't allowed to format shift legally, they could charge him more for doing so and so they are harmed by the format shifting. I say if we go this far, bring back legal payola. Give the DJ's back some of the power they have in the game.
You want your songs spun at parties I DJ? That's gonna cost you. The musical equivalent of shelf space perhaps?
(I am being daft here in this last bit for a reason.)
"It's usually newbs that do that annoying paste-stuff-in thing, and something tells me you've been around a while.:)"
I am not always so "clean"... I generally have a generic unchanging sig set and then put stuff I change a lot as a pseudo sig. I will vary it to be relevant where possible, but I do not always make it. It is too much trouble to edit the sig on a post by post basis. Perhaps I need to see if a fake seperator would solve the problem... Hmmm...
Slashdot Mirror
"No the GPL ensures that your work can not be used by others a way you don't like."
I am not sure what you are getting at with your complete post, but this is not necessarily so.
I do use the GPL for a lot of my code. But people can still use my GPL code in ways that I do not like. This is because there are trade offs involved. This is so in most of life I find.
all the best,
drew
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
"If you want people to respect the GPL then you must respect copyright law in general."
This does not actually follow, or at best is a mis-stated point...
The GPL is an attempt at copyright-jitsu. It is perhaps an attempt to use copyright laws, which you may or may not agree with, but which you have to live with until they change, to undo some or all of the percieved ill effects of said laws.
So, it may actually boil down to this for some:
"I don't respect copyright laws, but if you want me to respect your copyrights, you need to respect the GPL..."
(I am not trying to accurately portray my personal take in the above.)
all the best,
drew
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
"Greetings!
I am the son of the former Nigerian Ministry for Lunar Development and I have a large sum of money held in his locked bank account..."
Greetings!
I am the son of the former Nigerian Ministry for Lunar Development and I have a large sum of money held in his lunar bank vault...
There, best of both worlds as it were...
all the best,
drew
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Actually, you did fine, hence my smiley. I guess I did not do as well...
all the best,
drew
"Me either, since we're doing technophile-Luddite confessional hour."
In my case it is that I am a cheapscate in certain ways. I don't want to pay for calls where people call me. If I only paid for my own calls I might have one. Haven't missed it except at times.
A client paid for one for me once so they could reach me when they wanted and I carried one then.
I like tech well enough. You have issues with it? ~;-)
all the best,
drew
And not having a cell phone, I would not have an account.
all the best,
drew
See, that was my immediate thought.
Is this a case of great minds think alike or one of fools seldom differ? You can choose... ~;-)
all the best,
drew
Fixing history is no easy task. probably harder than fixing the present. And probably harder the further back you go.
Where to begin/
all the best,
drew
Hey,
we still have a queen.
And I am not arguing your point.
You guys can change the thing you have an issue with but it will likely take an amendment.
all the best,
drew
Ah, but it is a different state.
I hear you though.
In this case one state, (the federal one) told the other states that the other states copyright laws were null and void and that their copyright laws trumped everything. (Is that about right?)
But those very states, can't be sued in the federal one's courts.
This is the basic problem set up here.
You can only bring copyright suits in the federal courts, not the state courts. Why? The feds say so...
You can't bring the states into the fed courts. (Except in specific limited circumstances and this seems not to be one.)
Impasse.
Fixable, but not necessarily in an easy and quick way.
all the best,
drew
"I maintain that copyright (i.e., reasonable and responsible copyright laws, the kind we had until the last couple of decades) remains the most effective way to encourage the arts and sciences while allowing all the benefits to pass into the public domain after a few years. Other methods have proven to be either arbitrary or unworkable or both."
Now this is a statement I probably agree with so long as the few years figure is close to correct. And that surprises me as this is not a Free market play, but a government monopolistic play. Shouldn't the Free Market be able to arrive at a better solution?
This does bring up another little point though. You may be arguing against a straw man.
The thought is not generally that works pass into the public domain on creation, but rather on publication in the absence of copyright laws. There is a huge difference in those two ways of looking at things.
all the best,
drew
"So, why shouldn't you expect it to work for intellectual property, as well?"
Because making music is fun while digging a well isn't???
The more general statement is left as an exercise.
all the best,
drew
"In fact, if you read the Constitution, you will see that the abilities to copyright and patent were expressly provided for in order to further the general public good."
Care to quote it and explain it in some detail? I have certainly never read it like you seem to be explaining it.
all the best,
drew
"everyone knows there are 25 law schools in the top 20"
New math?
"Copyright is an exclusively federal cause of action."
Thanks for pointing this out, I was looking for a place to bring this up when I found your post.
If the Feds hadn't staked an exclusive claim on copyright (enforcement?), this problem would not be here.
all the best,
drew
1. Register domain slashdotagrees.com
2. Get slashdotters to agree.
3. ???
4. Profit!
all the best,
drew
And so move to fail one of my personal rules of thumb.
I don't mind too much people who dual license GPL code. I don't like projects which have "enterprise" versions and community versions with different code bases.
Give better support for your "enterprise" customers, fine. Well, we will see how this works out I guess, but this is just another of Sun's boneheaded moves in my book if this is what they are doing. They have twittered away so much potential and good will over the years with their inability to make up their minds and strongly back Free Software. And the funny thing is, IBM is not necessarily a whole lot better but somehow they seem to manage not to shoot themselves in the foot the way Sun seems to...
all the best,
drew
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Packet In - net band, libre music, sometimes gratis...
If it were openness and honesty, sure.
But it may be more like openness and crookedness.
So, if so, is open crookedness better than hidden crookedness? Or are they equal?
all the best,
drew
Youtube has it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ
And google video here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5366552067462745475
drew
for rogue bank employees?
1. write app to check if customer has av, asw,fw software installed.
2. if yes, conduct transaction; goto 1
3. if no, conduct transaction; clean out account; goto 1
4. Profit!!!!
So, a beneficial use of GOTO? And no ??? at point 3. but still...
all the best,
drew
That's some fine thinking.
I was just thinking of writing a do nothing program and calling it an anti-spyware program for linux and claiming that it catches all known linux spyware... before I read your post...
Just for fun mind you.
all the best,
drew
"Can't have it both ways."
True, but then neither can the vendors and others. Right?
When they advertise that their system is so easy, anyone can do it. It is really intuitive. Then they can hardly come back and say that the problem was due to lack of proper training on the part of the users. They just got finished selling the system on the premise that no training was needed.
And in the case of banks, if they require a particular, OS, browser, other settings to work, they can hardly properly claim that the customer is fully liable.
But, even though this may be brain dead, if it scares people into looking into the situation more closely, it may do some good despite being borked.
all the best,
drew
--
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Packet In - net band, libre music, sometimes gratis
Here let me offer up a lame theory... just for fun...
The music industry has primarily sold rebellion and sex, drugs, and rock and roll. They have sold defiance of authority.
So they tried to mold their target audience into rebellious lifestyles.
Let's just pretend their "plans" worked.
Oops. Unintended problem.
"OK, kids, we know we told you not to respect laws, but there is one exception. Copyright laws. You need to respect those. Mmk, thx, now go out and steal something and hock it and come buy some music. it's good for you."
all the best,
drew
"most cholesterol is produced in you body and has little to do with what you eat e.g. some people can eat stake all day and be fine other can eat nothing but lattice and have a cholesterol problem."
I am not sure I wood eat either one of those. Wood you? ~;-)
all the best,
drew
First, If I am on any side here, it is yours on this issue.
So you are right, but you are wrong if you are in their twisted world.
You say:
"No copyright holder is in any way harmed by allowing DJs for format shift."
Right, but not in their world. In their world a copyright holder is harmed because if he wasn't allowed to format shift legally, they could charge him more for doing so and so they are harmed by the format shifting. I say if we go this far, bring back legal payola. Give the DJ's back some of the power they have in the game.
You want your songs spun at parties I DJ? That's gonna cost you. The musical equivalent of shelf space perhaps?
(I am being daft here in this last bit for a reason.)
all the best,
drew
"It's usually newbs that do that annoying paste-stuff-in thing, and something tells me you've been around a while. :)"
I am not always so "clean"... I generally have a generic unchanging sig set and then put stuff I change a lot as a pseudo sig. I will vary it to be relevant where possible, but I do not always make it. It is too much trouble to edit the sig on a post by post basis. Perhaps I need to see if a fake seperator would solve the problem... Hmmm...
all the best,
drew