HOSTILE? I think not. Nothing RMS ever says or does comes close the hostility exhibited by other political animals in the US. Just today for example I saw someone from conservative.com call Gary Condit a "mass murderer" on Fox News (of course it being fox news the host did not ask him to actually clarify that statement but just let it stand). So compare the so called hostility of RMS to your typical republican on fox news and he comes of like a gentleman. Compare his hostility to the average republican radio talk show host and he comes off as a saint. Compare his hostility to the republican triggerman who puts a bullet into a abortion doctors head and he comes of as an angel.
Face it the United States is one of the most hostile nations on the planet. What RMS does is childs play compared to the merchants of hostility and hate that pollute the airwaves these days. Put RMS on side of the table and Bill O'reilly on the other and see who is hostile.
'A software licence is a legal aggreement between two parties."
No not really. For one thing you never signed a contract, also there were no witnesses. You also may have been impaired or underage when you "opened that seal". I could understand your argument if there was an actual contract signed in the presence of a notary but let's face there was no such thing.
This sceme would fall apart because the consumers would always choose to "steal" the stuff. Your consumers are not after all some corporation it's the masses and if they can copy it easily (without the threat of jail) they will. In your example the VLAA would be powerless because they would have to "shun" the consumer base. They would have to hunt down every copier of a CD and put them in some database so that no member of VLAA would ever do business with them again. But look at how silly that is! You copied a CD last year so we won't let you buy these shoes!. Big whoop the consumer simply walks across the street to the next store.
"If I disagree, I'm "greedy" or somehow I care more about profits than my community."
Wow what a whiner. So what? Can't you take a little name calling? RMS gets called everything from a pinko communist un-american to a raving lunatic for speaking his mind. Whatever you do you have to be ready to defend it.
It's OK for you to call him a communist but not OK if he says you are being greedy?
"YEP, of course conversely, the current "liberal" Justices who have always been true blue on equal protection and Federal Control over the States also suddenly decided to vote against the positions that they've always taken before. "
Well that just proves my point. If you go and re-read my post you will see that I said the supreme court acted in a irrational and partisan matter. Apparently you agree with me on this one.
"Judge Jackson who found that MS was a monopoly and ordred the MS Breakup is (drum roll, please)..a proven anti-antitrust, pro business country club Republican. "
OK. But last I checked he was not on the supreme court. What does this have to do with the supreme court?
"the CCA panel judges who upheld about 90-95% of Jackson's Findings are all.....conservative Republicans (all appointed by Ronnie RayGunz, BTW)..."
Well I don't think they are the supreme court either. Are they?
"educes real problems to "Us versus Them"...which is a big reason things don't change very quickly or very effectively here in the USA "
It is us vs them. If you want to roll over and play dead that's fine, it's your choice. But it's time we woke up to the fact that there is a civil war going on in this country. The rich against everybody else, whites against the blacks, the republicans against the democrats. Unfortunately I am on the losing side and the reason is that the we are wimps. You never hear of an abortion doctor killing a priest but republicans kill at least one or two doctors a year. It's about time we fought back. It's time to drag some republicans behind a truck till they get dismembered and put the fear of god into them the way they have been putting the fear of god on to us.
"BONUS ROUND: Guess what political party the Gates Family as a whole have been registered to for the last 3 or 4 decades???? Incl BOTH of Bill's parents..HINT, doesn't start with an "R" "
Well then he'll lose in the supreme court. If they have a chance to disrupt democratic fund raising they will do it.
The price of food is pretty cheap in most places in the world (except maybe japan) but even if was more expensive I would rather eat in Italy, spain, greece, turkey, israel, tunisia, or just about anywhere else then the US. The food in the US simply sucks big time. Amrican fruits and vegetables are bred to have tough skins, to be able to survive extended shipping, disease resistance, pesticide resistance etc. Anything except to actually taste good. Combine that with the fact that are picked under-ripe and then are ripened in a dark truck full of toxic gas and you have a tomato that tastes like cardboard. I would trade a billion burgers for a tomato from spain.
Never been to Utah have you?
You can also try many foreign countries where bigamy is a way of life and of course you can always practice bigamy (in name only) by taking on a consort. Most countries in Europe won't frown on a man with multiple lovers and most muslim countries will let you marry as many as you want.
"Judges are there to explain and clarify laws.
Every decision they make will be influenced consciously or NOT by their personal believes."
Once again the judge is supposed to be impartial. They are supposed to recuse themselves if they feel like they can't be impartial or if there is an appearance of improprietary (when is slashdot going to get a spell checker?).
"As far as SC ruling during last election...
They did what they thought was right."
No they did not. The republican members of the court have been the champions of states rights for years. They had also rejected numerous equal protection arguments when it came to other other issues (death penalty for one). If they did what they thought was right they wouldn't have said in effect "don't ever come to us with another equal rights case and expect us to take you seriously we only did it in this one case". I guess equal protection is not important when a nigger is being killed but let a republican loose an election? never!
"Who is to say you are right and I am wrong ?"
Well I guess history will. Maybe some brave journalist will track down some of the favors done by the Bush administration to the members of the judges families and then the rest of the country will too. Of course with the media being so conservative these days I don't expect it anytime soon.
"I owe it to the world to have as many children as possible, but it looks like my wife will limit me to two."
Why let that stop you? You do know other women exist don't you? with your superior genetics all of them would love to sire your brood. You can't let one woman stand in the way of your genes. Why rob the world of your children just because your wife says so.
It really does not matter. Once you have ntered the legal system you are fucked beyond belief. You will be tried, you will have to hire a lawyer, you ill lose your job, you will go broke. If you are married your wife will probably leave you and take the kids. Most of your friends will think that you were probably guilty and if they don't they will never be sure.
Compeletely innocent men have been jailed, sentenced to death and probably killed in this country. Even if you avoid avoid getting killed (perhaps you are a white person for example) or found not guilty your life will be ruined and you will be destitute.
Apparently you are not aware that prisons are a big business in this country. States frequently have contracts with prison companies to build and maintain prisons. In fact some states have contracts with out of state corporations and ship their prisoners to other states. Of course in these contracts are volume requirements. So it's in the interest of the state to imprison people as much as possible.
Also prisoners now provide extrememly cheap labor to major US corporations. We have joined the likes of china in using prison labor to help corporations. These corporations are not likely to give up slave labor so easily so they pressure politicians to make draconian laws and tougher mandatory sentencing.
This is america and the prison industry is the new slave trade.
Get a ream or red paper from your local office supply store.
Use your laser printer to print "big brother is watching you from this camera" in bold dark letters. You can also get some clipart of a suveilance camera and print that too.
Take a stapler, some tape, or wallpaper paste and paste this paper right next to (or above or below) any camera you happen to notice. Include ATMS, building security systems etc. Once the sheeple become aware of exactly how closely they are watched they may do something.
"Yes, I am making his point but also point out that judges will never be impartial because they are humans. "
Well they are paid to be impartial. They are supposed to recuse themselves if they think they can not be impartial. I suppose I could buy the argument that every person has an opinion but get real. To vote against a person just because they belong to the "wrong" political party is simply evil. What is a democrat supposed to do not ever take their case to the supreme court? What the hell kind of a justice system is that? Half of the voting population votes democratic. Maybe that's why people don't vote because they don't want some judge to be biased against them. The republicans on the supreme court went against evry single principle they had espoused over the years to annoint their man in the white house and were actually unashamed to note in their decision that this was the only time they were going to ignore their principles. It's disgusting.
"There will have their own believes which will influence their rulings and there is nothing you and I can do about it."
Bullshit. You can raise a stink, you can incite a revolutions, you can call for impeachment, you can yell and scream, you can get off your butt and do something.
"Unfortunately, there's more truth to that statement than a lot of people want to admit..."
It's my pet theory that it's the single biggest reason why america is such a mentally ill country. America has the highest percentage of churchgoers in the world.
The SCOUS has shown itself to be extremely irrational and partisan. When the election was on the line the same justices who had for years voted to further states rights went against states rights. The same justices who had rejected numerous equal protection arguments when it came to criminal punishment suddenly embraced equal protection. Not only that but they had the nerve to state that this ruling should not be ever used as a precedence in further equal protection cases because they knew that some democrat was going to make them look like idiots by immediately bringing an equal protection case up and watch them squirm like the snails that they are.
In short. Unless you can prove definatively that Bill Gates is a democrat or that he gives more money to democrats then republicans there is no way he will lose in the supreme court.
I think you are making his point. The judges should be impartial but the entire justice system is corrupt and partisan (not to mention racist) from the lowest level to the highest.
It bothers me equally that the FSC was voting alongside democrats and the SCOUS was voting with the republicans. I feel sorry for any republican whose case sits with the FSC and even worse for any poor democrat who has the misfortune to be heard by the SCOUS because they have no further appeals.
First of all the policemen were not being attacked. They were the ones attacking. Having said that.
If a police officer is not able to execute his duties when confronted with an unarmed crowd or an unarmed protester then they should be fired. Imagine how this officer will snap when confronted with an actually dangerous and armed felon who is trying to excape from a robbery or a murder scene. It is not the job of the police to execute people. In this case it was their job to keep the ordinary people from the rich and powerful people behind the fence. Seems like you could do this without executing people especially considering they could have used tear gas, water cannons etc. I guess those things are not as much fun as breaking open a skull with your baton or splattering some fuckers brains all over the sidewalk.
" though I'm not exactly sure how it applies here (in the context of RMS and the FSF)."
I don't know that it applies to RMS or FSF, You were talking about socialism (which also does not apply to RMS or FSF as far as I can see). I was commenting about socialism in general.
"There are some who believe that Socialism is based on Christian principles. There are others though who will quote the passage: "He who does not work should not eat."
As an atheist it has always amused me to no end that for any idea expressed in the bible the aooposite idea is also expressed. One the one hand god says "turn the other cheek" a few chapters later (earlier?) he says "kill them all, kill their women, kill their children, kill their animals and salt the earth so that not even plants survive". It must be massively disorenting to be christian. I suppose I should not pick on them because the moslems and the jews probably suffer from the same level of dissonance. Maybe that's why they seem to enjoy killing each other so much.
Getting back to the point (sort of). It seems to me that if christ designed a society it would look a lot like socialism. Surely he would not let people starve or suffer in poverty. If the devil designed a system it would look a lot like capitalism. It would be based on greed, envy, gluttony, pride, and all the rest of the seven deadly sins and the endless devotion to accumulation of money. If the love of money is root of all evil then capitalism is indeed based on evil at it's core. I certainly have never heard any passage from the bible, koran or any budhist texts that say "accumulate all the wealth you can, become so rich that you can never even spend all the money you have earned, hoard cash and use it to corrupt politicians. Buy the most expensive car in the world and then buy 20 more becasue a righteous man shall have many forms of transportation with burled maple dashboards" etc.
Like I said it must be very disorienting to be christian in the capitalistic country.
I would like to point out that Ashcroft and his justice dept has a track record of throwing cases when they don't like the law. When the clinton wilderness bill was challenged by Idaho the ashcroft justice dept assigned lawyers filed a one sentence brief with the judge and took just 4 minutes of their alloted 30. Of course they lost and of course this is what Ashcroft wanted.
If you can convince Ashcroft that a law is bad (or puts republicans at a disadvange) he will willingly flub the case. Unfortunately in the case I mentioned he was on the side of the mining and logging companies and he is likely to be on the side of the corporations on this one too. Still maybe if the CEO of adobe was a democrat or gave a lot of money to democrats (I have no idea if they do it seems unlikely) then Ashcroft might not mind undermining their case to emberass them.
Slashdot Mirror
Nobody uses sendmail or wu-ftpd anymore do they? Qmail, postfix, etc are pretty damned good. Proftpd is also pretty good.
HOSTILE? I think not. Nothing RMS ever says or does comes close the hostility exhibited by other political animals in the US. Just today for example I saw someone from conservative.com call Gary Condit a "mass murderer" on Fox News (of course it being fox news the host did not ask him to actually clarify that statement but just let it stand). So compare the so called hostility of RMS to your typical republican on fox news and he comes of like a gentleman. Compare his hostility to the average republican radio talk show host and he comes off as a saint. Compare his hostility to the republican triggerman who puts a bullet into a abortion doctors head and he comes of as an angel.
Face it the United States is one of the most hostile nations on the planet. What RMS does is childs play compared to the merchants of hostility and hate that pollute the airwaves these days. Put RMS on side of the table and Bill O'reilly on the other and see who is hostile.
'A software licence is a legal aggreement between two parties."
No not really. For one thing you never signed a contract, also there were no witnesses. You also may have been impaired or underage when you "opened that seal". I could understand your argument if there was an actual contract signed in the presence of a notary but let's face there was no such thing.
This sceme would fall apart because the consumers would always choose to "steal" the stuff. Your consumers are not after all some corporation it's the masses and if they can copy it easily (without the threat of jail) they will. In your example the VLAA would be powerless because they would have to "shun" the consumer base. They would have to hunt down every copier of a CD and put them in some database so that no member of VLAA would ever do business with them again. But look at how silly that is! You copied a CD last year so we won't let you buy these shoes!. Big whoop the consumer simply walks across the street to the next store.
"If I disagree, I'm "greedy" or somehow I care more about profits than my community."
Wow what a whiner. So what? Can't you take a little name calling? RMS gets called everything from a pinko communist un-american to a raving lunatic for speaking his mind. Whatever you do you have to be ready to defend it.
It's OK for you to call him a communist but not OK if he says you are being greedy?
Only on slashdot would a complete moron like this be moderated up to +5 insightful.
Really man wake up red baiting went out a long time ago.
"YEP, of course conversely, the current "liberal" Justices who have always been true blue on equal protection and Federal Control over the States also suddenly decided to vote against the positions that they've always taken before. "
..a proven anti-antitrust, pro business country club Republican. "
Well that just proves my point. If you go and re-read my post you will see that I said the supreme court acted in a irrational and partisan matter. Apparently you agree with me on this one.
"Judge Jackson who found that MS was a monopoly and ordred the MS Breakup is (drum roll, please)
OK. But last I checked he was not on the supreme court. What does this have to do with the supreme court?
"the CCA panel judges who upheld about 90-95% of Jackson's Findings are all.....conservative Republicans (all appointed by Ronnie RayGunz, BTW)..."
Well I don't think they are the supreme court either. Are they?
"educes real problems to "Us versus Them"...which is a big reason things don't change very quickly or very effectively here in the USA "
It is us vs them. If you want to roll over and play dead that's fine, it's your choice. But it's time we woke up to the fact that there is a civil war going on in this country. The rich against everybody else, whites against the blacks, the republicans against the democrats. Unfortunately I am on the losing side and the reason is that the we are wimps. You never hear of an abortion doctor killing a priest but republicans kill at least one or two doctors a year. It's about time we fought back. It's time to drag some republicans behind a truck till they get dismembered and put the fear of god into them the way they have been putting the fear of god on to us.
"BONUS ROUND: Guess what political party the Gates Family as a whole have been registered to for the last 3 or 4 decades???? Incl BOTH of Bill's parents..HINT, doesn't start with an "R" "
Well then he'll lose in the supreme court. If they have a chance to disrupt democratic fund raising they will do it.
The price of food is pretty cheap in most places in the world (except maybe japan) but even if was more expensive I would rather eat in Italy, spain, greece, turkey, israel, tunisia, or just about anywhere else then the US. The food in the US simply sucks big time. Amrican fruits and vegetables are bred to have tough skins, to be able to survive extended shipping, disease resistance, pesticide resistance etc. Anything except to actually taste good. Combine that with the fact that are picked under-ripe and then are ripened in a dark truck full of toxic gas and you have a tomato that tastes like cardboard. I would trade a billion burgers for a tomato from spain.
Never been to Utah have you?
You can also try many foreign countries where bigamy is a way of life and of course you can always practice bigamy (in name only) by taking on a consort. Most countries in Europe won't frown on a man with multiple lovers and most muslim countries will let you marry as many as you want.
"Judges are there to explain and clarify laws.
...
Every decision they make will be influenced consciously or NOT by their personal believes."
Once again the judge is supposed to be impartial. They are supposed to recuse themselves if they feel like they can't be impartial or if there is an appearance of improprietary (when is slashdot going to get a spell checker?).
"As far as SC ruling during last election
They did what they thought was right."
No they did not. The republican members of the court have been the champions of states rights for years. They had also rejected numerous equal protection arguments when it came to other other issues (death penalty for one). If they did what they thought was right they wouldn't have said in effect "don't ever come to us with another equal rights case and expect us to take you seriously we only did it in this one case". I guess equal protection is not important when a nigger is being killed but let a republican loose an election? never!
"Who is to say you are right and I am wrong ?"
Well I guess history will. Maybe some brave journalist will track down some of the favors done by the Bush administration to the members of the judges families and then the rest of the country will too. Of course with the media being so conservative these days I don't expect it anytime soon.
Yes it's unconscienable that the US is sheltering a war criminal like Kissinger.
Man you have a lot of faith in the supreme court. After what they did in the last election nothing they did would suprise me again.
Your examples are not quite right.
The thread is not about "telling them" it's about actually fixing the problem.
Would you have wanted the neighbor to actually innoculate the child?
Would you want your neighbor to enter your apartment and actually turn down your stereo?
It's one thing to call the cops it's another to take the matter into your own hands.
Yes but you don't get to decide who is a "danger to yourself or others". A judge has to do that.
"I owe it to the world to have as many children as possible, but it looks like my wife will limit me to two."
Why let that stop you? You do know other women exist don't you? with your superior genetics all of them would love to sire your brood. You can't let one woman stand in the way of your genes. Why rob the world of your children just because your wife says so.
It really does not matter. Once you have ntered the legal system you are fucked beyond belief. You will be tried, you will have to hire a lawyer, you ill lose your job, you will go broke. If you are married your wife will probably leave you and take the kids. Most of your friends will think that you were probably guilty and if they don't they will never be sure.
Compeletely innocent men have been jailed, sentenced to death and probably killed in this country. Even if you avoid avoid getting killed (perhaps you are a white person for example) or found not guilty your life will be ruined and you will be destitute.
Apparently you are not aware that prisons are a big business in this country. States frequently have contracts with prison companies to build and maintain prisons. In fact some states have contracts with out of state corporations and ship their prisoners to other states. Of course in these contracts are volume requirements. So it's in the interest of the state to imprison people as much as possible.
Also prisoners now provide extrememly cheap labor to major US corporations. We have joined the likes of china in using prison labor to help corporations. These corporations are not likely to give up slave labor so easily so they pressure politicians to make draconian laws and tougher mandatory sentencing.
This is america and the prison industry is the new slave trade.
Get a ream or red paper from your local office supply store.
Use your laser printer to print "big brother is watching you from this camera" in bold dark letters. You can also get some clipart of a suveilance camera and print that too.
Take a stapler, some tape, or wallpaper paste and paste this paper right next to (or above or below) any camera you happen to notice. Include ATMS, building security systems etc. Once the sheeple become aware of exactly how closely they are watched they may do something.
"Yes, I am making his point but also point out that judges will never be impartial because they are humans. "
Well they are paid to be impartial. They are supposed to recuse themselves if they think they can not be impartial. I suppose I could buy the argument that every person has an opinion but get real. To vote against a person just because they belong to the "wrong" political party is simply evil. What is a democrat supposed to do not ever take their case to the supreme court? What the hell kind of a justice system is that? Half of the voting population votes democratic. Maybe that's why people don't vote because they don't want some judge to be biased against them. The republicans on the supreme court went against evry single principle they had espoused over the years to annoint their man in the white house and were actually unashamed to note in their decision that this was the only time they were going to ignore their principles. It's disgusting.
"There will have their own believes which will influence their rulings and there is nothing you and I can do about it."
Bullshit. You can raise a stink, you can incite a revolutions, you can call for impeachment, you can yell and scream, you can get off your butt and do something.
"Unfortunately, there's more truth to that statement than a lot of people want to admit..."
It's my pet theory that it's the single biggest reason why america is such a mentally ill country. America has the highest percentage of churchgoers in the world.
The SCOUS has shown itself to be extremely irrational and partisan. When the election was on the line the same justices who had for years voted to further states rights went against states rights. The same justices who had rejected numerous equal protection arguments when it came to criminal punishment suddenly embraced equal protection. Not only that but they had the nerve to state that this ruling should not be ever used as a precedence in further equal protection cases because they knew that some democrat was going to make them look like idiots by immediately bringing an equal protection case up and watch them squirm like the snails that they are.
In short. Unless you can prove definatively that Bill Gates is a democrat or that he gives more money to democrats then republicans there is no way he will lose in the supreme court.
I think you are making his point. The judges should be impartial but the entire justice system is corrupt and partisan (not to mention racist) from the lowest level to the highest.
It bothers me equally that the FSC was voting alongside democrats and the SCOUS was voting with the republicans. I feel sorry for any republican whose case sits with the FSC and even worse for any poor democrat who has the misfortune to be heard by the SCOUS because they have no further appeals.
First of all the policemen were not being attacked. They were the ones attacking. Having said that.
If a police officer is not able to execute his duties when confronted with an unarmed crowd or an unarmed protester then they should be fired. Imagine how this officer will snap when confronted with an actually dangerous and armed felon who is trying to excape from a robbery or a murder scene. It is not the job of the police to execute people. In this case it was their job to keep the ordinary people from the rich and powerful people behind the fence. Seems like you could do this without executing people especially considering they could have used tear gas, water cannons etc. I guess those things are not as much fun as breaking open a skull with your baton or splattering some fuckers brains all over the sidewalk.
" though I'm not exactly sure how it applies here (in the context of RMS and the FSF)."
I don't know that it applies to RMS or FSF, You were talking about socialism (which also does not apply to RMS or FSF as far as I can see). I was commenting about socialism in general.
"There are some who believe that Socialism is based on Christian principles. There are others though who will quote the passage: "He who does not work should not eat."
As an atheist it has always amused me to no end that for any idea expressed in the bible the aooposite idea is also expressed. One the one hand god says "turn the other cheek" a few chapters later (earlier?) he says "kill them all, kill their women, kill their children, kill their animals and salt the earth so that not even plants survive". It must be massively disorenting to be christian. I suppose I should not pick on them because the moslems and the jews probably suffer from the same level of dissonance. Maybe that's why they seem to enjoy killing each other so much.
Getting back to the point (sort of). It seems to me that if christ designed a society it would look a lot like socialism. Surely he would not let people starve or suffer in poverty. If the devil designed a system it would look a lot like capitalism. It would be based on greed, envy, gluttony, pride, and all the rest of the seven deadly sins and the endless devotion to accumulation of money. If the love of money is root of all evil then capitalism is indeed based on evil at it's core. I certainly have never heard any passage from the bible, koran or any budhist texts that say "accumulate all the wealth you can, become so rich that you can never even spend all the money you have earned, hoard cash and use it to corrupt politicians. Buy the most expensive car in the world and then buy 20 more becasue a righteous man shall have many forms of transportation with burled maple dashboards" etc.
Like I said it must be very disorienting to be christian in the capitalistic country.
I would like to point out that Ashcroft and his justice dept has a track record of throwing cases when they don't like the law. When the clinton wilderness bill was challenged by Idaho the ashcroft justice dept assigned lawyers filed a one sentence brief with the judge and took just 4 minutes of their alloted 30. Of course they lost and of course this is what Ashcroft wanted.
If you can convince Ashcroft that a law is bad (or puts republicans at a disadvange) he will willingly flub the case. Unfortunately in the case I mentioned he was on the side of the mining and logging companies and he is likely to be on the side of the corporations on this one too. Still maybe if the CEO of adobe was a democrat or gave a lot of money to democrats (I have no idea if they do it seems unlikely) then Ashcroft might not mind undermining their case to emberass them.