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Sklyarov Released On $50,000 Bail
Mike Schiraldi was the first to write about Dmitry Sklyarov's release from jail, even before it happened: "According to this live report from the courtroom, Dmitri will probably be out of jail real soon now. Of course, he still won't be allowed to leave Northern California, but it's a start ..." Soon after, inaneboy pointed out this Reuters story on yahoo which says that Sklyarov has been released, on 50,000 dollars bail, raised by his employer, ElcomSoft.
phalse phace wrote to say that the EFF has just posted an announcement as well as some background.
That's your opinion; it's not matched by the experience of countless protest organizations and movements dating back centuries. As you've said, you don't have a similar well of experience from which to draw.
It is not effective or witty, it is lame. It makes you look like brainless, uncreative drones on television, and people will tune you right out.
While it may be annoying to you, it *is* effective.
The reason chanting has been used at protest events for centuries is because it works. Chanting, in combination with other factors (bright/colorful/memorable costumes, clear signs, catchy slogans) helps fulfill several goals that most protest groups have. Among them, chanting:
1. Creates substantive sight-and-sound bites for the media.
2. Conveys a basic message to observers.
3. Unites the protesters, giving a greater appearance of unity.
4. Helps keep participant energy up over long protest periods.
5. Can be used to synchronize group action and convey messages in large crowds. ("When we start chanting 'foo', that's the signal to move towards the gates of the plant.")
6. Provides a simple "hook" for bystanders to participate.
I understand that you may consider chants about the DMCA childish, but simple slogans can create interest in a topic. If I know nothing about the DMCA and hear people chanting "Down with the DMCA" (and see signs waving!) I may be spurred to find out more about the subject myself. While you may be adept at explaining the topic in 20 minutes, or even 5, you need to capture interest in 20 seconds -- the time my car is stopped at that red light on the corner -- and that requires slogans, signs, and *chants*.
Please think of something different.
I'll politely refrain from asking how many protests you've participated in, or organized, or how you've kept your mental and physical energy up after 4 hours of marching, or 20 days at the same street corner; after all, you've already said you have no experience with organized protest actions. While I understand that you -- someone educated about the topic -- may find simple chanting "infantile" -- I would suggest that you try engaging in the activity before demanding of others that they replace a time-tested and perennially effective element of protesting.
-Trin
No, it is not about punishing vandalism with death.
It is about forcing policeman (who are just men like you and me dealing with their own fears) into no-choice position.
Again, common sense should tell you that attacking bunch of surrounded (and undoubtedly scared) armed policeman is NOT a good idea.
Wrong. Any time you swear to an afidavit you are doing so on the penalty of perjury.
The decoding software has been developed and distributed in Russia.
;)
The person responsible for breaking the law is whoever imported (or downloaded) the software into the US but that person is impssible to identify so lets throw everything on Dmitry Sklyarov's head and have his company sink some money.
We need adobe free Mondays, maybe that will teach them
I think Adobe should put it's money where it's mouth is, and pitch in to _pay_ for his legal expenses. It only seems appropriate, seeing as they made this whole problem happen in the first place. Just dropping the charges in the interest of the industry hasn't made Dmitry's problems go away.
There's something to be said about taking responsibility for one's actions, IMHO.
>The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid laws
>can be corrected
How about this. Soldiers should follow orders, even if they think they are illegal, that is the
only way the stupid officers can be removed.
Isn't it the duty of a soldier do disobey an illegal order? Why couldn't it be the same
for police forces?
I think that not enforcing a law, and making a public issue of not inforcing it is better
for the people affected than enforcing it.
Wouldn't it be better for Dimity and his family if the FBI agent refused to enforce the law, then
he, the US citizen was the one being used in
the test case?
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
the next time we should discuss Adobe is when their employees are called to the stand. That's when we find out where they really stand on the issues. Right now they can't do anything - good or bad.
Bullshit.
Yes, Adobe's "retraction" and "regret" have proven to be the perfect copout for Adobe. Get the man maliciously arrested for "violating" a flagrantly unconstitutional American law for actions in Russia which were legal, even encouraged, under Russian law, then step back and say "oops, our bad, sorry, please keep buying our ebook products but now its the government's fault, yell at them instead!"
Adobe gets the chilling effect on research into their inadequate, even fraudulant, copy protection schemes and, if we listen to you, never have to suffer a single consiquence for their actions, the direct result of which have been the unjust imprisonment of a software engineer for giving a speech at a technical conference and quite possibly the destruction of the next several years of his life.
Until Adobe does something significant and concrete to make amends for their actions I will continue to hold them in the highest contempt, I will continue to boycott their products, I will continue to encourage my employer and my friends to do the same, and I will continue to speak out about it on public fora such as this one.
Adobe pulled the trigger. The very least they can do is pay reparations for the damage they have wrought.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
He was arrested after giving a talk/presentation on the weaknesses of the protection mechanism.
Yep, I could see that happening! Teeny Boppers all over the world trading classics like Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Moby Dick, Shakespeare with their online friends because the writer is "speaking to them"
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
You opinion isn't the law, thank god. He has been accused of breaking the law. He must stand trial for that.
A judge could decide the case has no merit and dismiss the charges without trial, so no, it isn't absolutely necessary. I'm not sure if the bail judge is in a position to do this, however. Skylarov's lawyers could and should file a motion for summary dismissal based on inappropriateness of the charges (it's not his frelling company! He's just an employee!), and it should be granted pre-trial.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
He's not being detained unjustly. He broke US law
He IS being detained unjustly. He may have broken US law, but he wasn't in the US when he did it.
Did he really market and sell the product to US citizens? As far as I can tell the product was simply sold on the internet. It wasn't "marketed" to US citizens any more or less than it was marketed to people elsewhere in the world. That a few Americans happened to buy it is circumstantial, at best. Merely using a US payment service shouldn't mean that the product is directed at the US market. Imagine that you've gotten lucky and you've photographed and created an e-book of swimsuit models. You sell your e-book online, and somebody from Iran (amidst 100 sales to people from elsewhere in the world) buys your book with a Visa card; they download the e-book immediately. Five months later you're flying to Moscow but your flight stops in Iran. You're arrested. The nature of the internet is what's really in question here -- does making your product available for sale on the internet constitute active participation in the rules and structure of every country the internet reaches? These undoubtedly contrast!!!
I guess you do have a fairly good point here, but think about something else. Military officers are expected to exercize their own judgement about whether an order they receive is moral (enlisted personel are pretty much screwed here, they're not allowed to exercise such judgement). Any soldier can be prosecuted for war crimes for following an immoral order (even enlisted personel, which is why I say they get screwed). The military is generally considered to have a higher degree of discipline than law enforcement organizations. So what happens if the elected officials pass a new sedition act requiring that anyone speaking out against the government be silenced. And if they refuse to shut up, they are to be shot. Now, this is clearly pretty extreme. And the Constitutional implications are obvious. But it could happen. Our politicians (yes, I am American...I live in the People's Socialist Democratic Republik of Maryland) have proved time and again that they don't much care for the Constitution (or even ethics and morality on many occasions). So, if such a law were to be passed, by your argument, the FBI should go ahead and shoot anybody who speaks against the government and won't shut up. And since arguing a court case against the law could be constituted as speaking against the government, we would have a real impasse. And as for cases against the DMCA, Felten v. RIAA is currently in progress. Are you also saying that blatantly unconstitutional laws are perfectly legal until the legal battle to strike them down (often taking months or years) finishes? I guess in some cases that's not too much of a problem. On the other hand, in the hypothetical I posed above, it would be a huge problem. Perhaps with recently passed laws, they should be temporarily nullified while they are being argued in the courts. If we got by without them up to this point, it seems pretty likely that we can continue to survive without them until the courts have decided on them.
-Perrin.
Now I want you to go in that bag and find my lightsaber. It's the one that says bad mother-fscker on it.
Is anyone else chilled to the bone by the idea that AOL/Time Warner **owns** ``Happy Birthday''?
This isn't reality; this is the stuff of weird, weird dystopian fantasy.
At least they don't demand a buck from eveyone who sings is.
Can anyone provide a link to show that the song is, indeed, 0wned by AOL/Time Warner?
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
IHBT. Bite me, I like a good rumble.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Why should we be allowed to arbitrarily seize intellectual property?
Few would suggest that the Sears Tower should now be in the public domain, just because it has been owned for over fifty years.
The difference, in my opinion, is that the Sears Tower is taxed, and so that owner must weigh the ongoing taxes against the value of the property. This is why most (all?) of the castles in Europe are now public -- they can't afford to pay the taxes on them otherwise.
On the other hand, companies such as Disney can sit on their portfolio of copyrighted works, enjoying the protection of the government, without ever giving anything back (remember that the original concept of patents and copyrights was supposed to be a trade -- protection for eventual public domain; the second half of the trade has been lost).
The solution seems simple! :-)
>I'm just curious, what do you think a soldier should do if he is given an illegal order, BUT he
>happens to not like the law that makes the order illegal?
Well, that would mean in his opinion the order is not illegal, so he would follow it.
How does one know if a given order is legal or not? Sometimes, it's not cut and dried, therefore
personal judgement comes into play.
People are not machines, they should rely on their own morals before performing an action. If
the request conflicts with their own morals, then they should object - if it doesn't, then fine
they can do with what they're told, but must also live with the consequences, good or bad.
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
I'm pretty sure that Dimitry going to trial is a very good thing. Yeah, it sucks for him, but someone has to be the first to be called to the stand. The trick is, in the US, laws can't be changed until someone breaks them. So unfortunately for Dimitry, he's the one to be tried for it, but if this case goes forward, maybe the courts will realize what a crock the DMCA is. And since he's a Russian National, perhaps they will also rule that he's safe, that way. Either of these rulings sets a precedent that needs to be set: in one case, a strike against the validity of the DMCA, or in the other, a limit placed on the reach of American Corporations to litigate. But in order for any of this to happen, we need this case to be tried.
Kevin Nathanson - eBooks Group Product manager, complainant to the FBI.
NATHANSON KEVIN
Address: 200 SHERIDAN AVE
PALO ALTO CA 94306
Phone No. (650) 853-1720
Daryl Spano - Adobe "Anti-piracy" investigator, also complainant to the FBI.
SPANO DARYL S
Address: 136 JASMINE CT
MILPITAS CA 95035
I agree with you again.
I'd even love to make a documentary helping him escape.
>I>"US law was NOT the Law of the Land in Russia."
Considering rampart corruption and almost complete dominance of MOB in Russian society one can argue there is no such a thing.
There are plenty of "mobsters" in the US too both the regular kind and corporates who have extended their behaviour into breaking, bending and rewriting the law.
Indeed the situation would well be worst in the US than in Russia
why would he want to bring his family to this shithole?
Maybe if his wife could bitch-slap every fuckup who signed that bastard law, it would be worth it.
First of all the policemen were not being attacked. They were the ones attacking. Having said that.
If a police officer is not able to execute his duties when confronted with an unarmed crowd or an unarmed protester then they should be fired. Imagine how this officer will snap when confronted with an actually dangerous and armed felon who is trying to excape from a robbery or a murder scene. It is not the job of the police to execute people. In this case it was their job to keep the ordinary people from the rich and powerful people behind the fence. Seems like you could do this without executing people especially considering they could have used tear gas, water cannons etc. I guess those things are not as much fun as breaking open a skull with your baton or splattering some fuckers brains all over the sidewalk.
War is necrophilia.
Using my poor legal perception, it seems to me that it is still legal for end users to make the one copy, it just isn't legal to develop and sell software to do it for them.
So it is legal to make the copy, but impossable without doing business with a criminal. Sounds to me like they really mean it's illegal, but don't want to face the political problems involved with making felons of librarians, teachers, and grandmothers.
But those are **Windows** problems.
``Oh, so you mean you're a Macintosh user?''
No, no, open source geeks are very security conscious (or *should* be).
``Open source? Is that like in _Antitrust_?''
I give up.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I would like to point out that Ashcroft and his justice dept has a track record of throwing cases when they don't like the law. When the clinton wilderness bill was challenged by Idaho the ashcroft justice dept assigned lawyers filed a one sentence brief with the judge and took just 4 minutes of their alloted 30. Of course they lost and of course this is what Ashcroft wanted.
If you can convince Ashcroft that a law is bad (or puts republicans at a disadvange) he will willingly flub the case. Unfortunately in the case I mentioned he was on the side of the mining and logging companies and he is likely to be on the side of the corporations on this one too. Still maybe if the CEO of adobe was a democrat or gave a lot of money to democrats (I have no idea if they do it seems unlikely) then Ashcroft might not mind undermining their case to emberass them.
War is necrophilia.
He distributed a proof of concept at defcon. It was a crippled version that only allow x% of the book to be shown. I'm not a lawyer, but I feel there is an argument that he didn't break any laws. So, lets give him the right of being innocent until proven guilty.
The ACLU would only help him if he is a homosexual with a debilitating leg disorder who is trying to force the Boy Scouts to let him play in their 'no-carts allowed' iron-man golf contest, and trying to defend his right to freedom of expression.
customs officials in the airports WILL be on the lookout for this guy.
I highly doubt Dimitry would take a commercial jet out of the USA. Even if he did flee to Canada or Mexico he wouldn't be staying in either country longer than it takes to board a private jet off the continent.
Moderators, you're on crack again.
Remember Zimmerman the author of PGP? There was no doubt that he was the author of PGP or that somebody had illegally exported PGP. According to your logic, Zimmerman was also guilty of doing the export because he was the author. Think about it. Phil and Dmitri's situations are analgous. Dmitri wrote the code under circumstances where doing so was legal. Without establishing Dmitri's responsibility for doing the importing and selling in the US, you haven't proven his guilt. Of course being innocent didn't save Phil from being harassed by the government for an extended period of time before they gave up.
He / his company wrote some software for the express purpose of enabling users to bypass Adobe's encryption scheme. He/They marketed it to Americans and then got nabbed when he came to babble about the joys of spam at a convention. He didn't write that software to 'help blind' people, and he didn't write it to 'alert Adobe to flaws in their software protection'. He wrote it to make money, and to make it at Adobe's expense in direct conflict with existing laws.
If he was just some schmuck releasing some free code to over-ride protection I would have a little pity, but as it is he gambled for real and lost. Of course his new role as Poster Child Du Jour means that his future is bright regardless of what the courts decide.
**>>BELCH
Hey, is ntfs a circumvention device?
Okay, but are you really positive it won't look like one to a prosecutor?
Justice would be imprisoning the Senators, Congressmen and President who wrote and signed the DMCA into law.
... included with each $50K posted bond!
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Did you ever fill out a W-4? Did you do it in court?
Err, no.
Law enforcement **is** responsible.
Because of our ludicrous War On (some) Drugs, drugs are a source of incredible potential profit. They are, in fact, the **only** way to not be poor and miserable for a lot of young, poor black men.
Well, they become poor and miserable once they're in jail, but it's not really all about forethought.
To sum up: if white boys wouldn't waltz into the hood and wave hundred dollar bills around, the locals wouldn't shoot each other over them.
``Completely unrelated''---the nerve!
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
IIRC, this product was being sold in the US (via the internet). However, as soon as Adobe complained to the company, they immediately stopped selling to US consumers. In other words, they obeyed the law (at least when their transgression was pointed out). So Sklyarov did nothing wrong!
We gotta make democracy safe for the world! -- Pogo
Free fucking clue, it's not clever to threaten armed military police.
Their very presence suggests that no-one gives a flying fuck what happens to you. They WILL shoot to kill, they will quite happily beat you till your ribs break and piss on your bloody remains. If you're in that situation, you have exercised outstandingly poor judgement and deserve to be removed from the gene pool. Fucking deal with it. Posturing about how fucked up The System is one minute, then whining that you expect to be treated fairly the next, you digust me. Don't want to die? Don't throw cobblestones at armed police. Simple. Dumb fucks.
Under various international agreements he can be refused entry upon arriving at his destination and sent back to where he came from.
(Occasionaly Canadians get refused on U.S. airlines because they do not have a passport. The airline would have to foot the bill if the individual was refused entry into Canada as they would have to fly them back to the original airport they departed from. (Even though no passport is required for a Canadian to enter or leave the United States.)
If you're going to do business in a country then you company's legal department should be familiar with that country's laws.
The problem is that people seem to believe that just because they don't like the law Dmitry should be freed. This is just not true. Number one the /. crows is a small section of society (not that only /.ers oppose the law). Number two, those that disagree need to make their voices heard when this goes to court. Dmitry stands accused of commiting a crime, which he did in fact commit.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Once in Canada he could readily file for a replacement passport (which he would not need to enter Canada from the U.S., unless he said he wasn't American).
But he would be a fool to run. He is actually better off staying until this gets resolved. It looks to me like it will be resolved without him going back to jail.
Running would just screw things up.
And, for all you conspiracy theorists, notice that it's illegal to own the kind of firepower that can hurt a large corporation (say, a tank or a nuclear bomb).
The only case of a corporation being harmed by explosive would be PanAm though...
Unfortunately, yes. Read up on the DMCA... you aren't aven allowed to speak about how to break a copyright "protecting" encryption scheme.
That section of the DMCA must be void possibly the whole thing is void. Depends if someone remembered to add the clause "If any part of this law is voided by the US constitution then the rest still stands".
Problem is that the founders of the US apparently never imagined the possibility of unconstitutional laws not being immediatly struck down by the US supreme court.
The idea that a nation's laws must exactly match everything that goes on there, or else the universe is somehow fundamentally deranged, is really top-heavy.
Yeah, so the System got temporarily deranged and passed a bad law, and as it began the lengthy process of flushing that law out of its system, a coder like you or me had to spend three weeks in a Las Vegas jail with pimps and junkies.
True? Sure, it's true. But I don't have to like it, and neither do you.
I don't know whether he distributed something at Def Con, but he clearly wasn't charged with doing so. Adobe's complaint and the FBI agent's affidavit described activities occuring before Dmitri came to the US. I think whatever happened at Def Con is not relevant to the charges.
The guy who was being prosecuted for "hate crimes" against Scientology fled to Canada and successfully argued that he should be able to stay. Jumping bail from a foreign jurisdiction isn't illegal in Canada if the charge he's fleeing isn't illegal here. Suppose, for example, that an Italian is charged with blasphemy in Iraq. He gets bail (somehow) and flees to Canada. Blasphemy against Allah isn't illegal here. So while he's a bail jumper, he can enter the country illegally and then claim refugee status. This is exactly analogous to the situation under discussion.
www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
Here's my take; feel free to agree or disagree with it. I am not a programmer so my terminology may be somewhat inaccurate, but you'll get the idea.
Creating a program to break encryption: Legal
Using a program to break encryption: Illegal
Sure someone who figures out how to get around a program's security is pretty smart but that doesn't give him or her the right to use commercial software they didn't pay for (ie. steal it).
Distributing general description of how create such a program: Legal
Distributing source or binary of such a program: Illegal
I equate this with providing people with the exact means with which to commit an illegal act.
The latter (binary) can be compared to someone filing a key for a locked store. While he may not use the key to rob the store himself, distribruting it to the public would likely lead to the store being robbed.
The former (source) can be compared to someone distributing bomb plans. He's not actually supplying the bomb itself, but he's supplying the public with the materials necessary to build it.
I have no problem with someone who creates such a program for legal purposes. He or she may be a responsible person and wouldn't even think about using it illegally.
However, when you put such a tool in the hands of people who feel no such restraint, there has to be some accountability for that tool's distribution.
And don't give me that crap about this being a victimless crime... why do you think software is as expensive as it is?
The current charges include one count of trafficking and one count of aiding and abetting. I think the second count is fairly close to the conspiracy charge. Still seems bogus for an employer-employee relationship when the activities concerned are legal in your country.
and what happens to that poor guy who agreed to be his custodian?
Slow down cowboy!
Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting reply on comments.pl and submitting a comment.
It's been 15 seconds since you hit 'reply'!
Apparently no one at slashdot can touch type.
[o]_O
> If he's just in a bigger cell now, then I guess that means that we are both in the cell together with alot of other people too.
But the difference is, the other people are allowed to leave when they want, whereas he is not. Yes, theoretically he could take the Greyhound to San Diego, and from there just walk to Tijuana (if he finds some unguarded border post... how easy is it really to cross the Mexican without a passport?), but risk is far too high. If caught too early he (and his "custodian"...) would face much stiffer penalties than he would now...
For minor offenses here they take a 10% fee off the top before they return it...
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
CNN Headline News had a bit about Skylarov's release and the protests, and one thing they made a point to zoom in on and show for more than a few seconds was some protester's sign: "DMCA VIOLATES OUR RIGTS" (or something to that effect). Gee, thanks, guy... how about making sure your sign is spelled correctly next time?
IANAL, but every month the NRA magazine publishes a page of excerpts from newspaper articles about citizens in the US who defended themselves or others with such "instruments of violence". In most of the cases there are no charges filed against the citizen. The exact details of what constitutes self defense varies from state to state. I'm sure you have to be a lot more careful in states like Mass. or CA than in TX or TN. In the state where I live there is a "no retreat" policy inside your residence; which means you do not have to try to run away from an assailant before using deadly force. Outside your home, you are obligated to retreat if possible. In either case you have to be in what a reasonable person (read, juror) would consider to be a situation that threatened you with death or grievous bodily harm before using deadly force (i.e. shooting, stabbing, or chainsawing your attacker). That means that if you are a healthy, athletic, young man then yes the assailant would probably have to be armed or else have friends with him; if you are a frail old man then even an unarmed attacker may be a reasonable threat.
The stories you hear about people being arrested for defending themselves are the vast minority of the cases. But, yes if you are going to wield power (whether it is a firearm or a computer or a car) you are expected to know the applicable laws and act responsibly. Failure to do Right (especially when someone dies) can result in facing criminal charges. I would rather live in a society that gives you the choice and makes you legally responsible for your actions than in one that treats you like a child and takes away your choices because you MIGHT not be responsible.
Good post, but it misses my point. I think there's no question distributing AEBR in the US is in violation of the DMCA anticircumvention section (which is exactly why DMCA is a bad law urgently needing adjustment). The point is, to use that law against Dmitry, the DOJ have to show that Dmitry actually did what the law prohibits. Since Dmitry did not AFAIK actually distribute AEBR in the US, this is impossible.
Dmitry is listed as _the_ copyright holder for the application. This means he has to approve of it's distribution. His company did market the software in the US at one point. Therefore, Dmitry implicitly approved of distributing a "circumvention device" (AEBPR) in the US, where is an illegal product.
There are some questionable assumptions in there that I think many observers are making (e.g. if the copyright text says Dmitry, then Dmitry must have controlled distribution, and must have had a deal to make money from the sales, and that's the same thing as distributing the software -- all dubious). Let's deconstruct that 'His company' part. Elcomsoft is Dmitry's employer, not an agent or instrument doing his bidding. Of course Dmitry knew AEBR was being sold in the US, and evidently did not prevent that (who knows, maybe the company even did it against his wishes), but in any event Dmitry was not the one selling AEBR in the US, Elcomsoft was. Despite what parents tell children, 'implicitly approving' of an illegal act is not the same as actually doing the thing. (IANAL, but am led to believe that if DOJ wanted to prosecute Dmitry for that, it would require a different cause of action, not a DMA charge, along the lines of 'conspiracy' or 'aiding and abetting' -- is that even available on a foreign national?) Dmitry, again, is a separate legal entity from Elcomsoft. Everything depends on the extent to which the DOJ can prove, as a matter of law, that Dmitry the foreign individual has criminal liability for the deeds of Elcomsoft the foreign corporation.
The complaint completely glosses over the difference betwen Dmitry and Elcomsoft, and doesn't assert that Dmitry himself has distributed AEBR in the US at all. So my original point holds: If US distribution of AEBR is an act of Elcomsoft, and Dmitry as an employee has no criminal liability for Elcomsoft's actions, then the prosecution is still fatally flawed, Dmitry goes free, and there is no test case. Copyright notices notwithstanding.
Feeling cheecky this morning, so read with a bit of humour
OK, so where is the court case saying the DMCA is illegal/unconstitutional. Waiting... Still waiting... Didn't find one??? Then you have no leg to stand on until the court system issues an official rulling.
Obedience to the Constitution, I believe as part of the the Constitutional checks and balances it REQUIRES them to execute the laws that the legislative branch creates, UNTIL the judicial branch strikes it down.
Fairness, they treated him exactly the same others, they did NOT judge him but executed what they were bound by the Constitution to do. If they were unfair they would have pre-judged him either as innocent (which is what you really want them to be I guess, judges) or guilty.
The FBI may be an organization that has not done everything properly, or even done things down right illegal; but in *this* case everything was done properly. The people who passed the DMCA are the ones who are in the wrong here, Cliton and Congress are the ones who put their signature on that paper signing it into law, and they are ultimately at fault for the DMCA. (along with Adobe in this case)
I'm sorry but you must be living somewhere than America to make the statements you are making. I mean, your Constitution allowing the the police department to decide which laws created by elected officials they feel like ignoring and also allowing them to be the judge... that doesn't sound like a very nice place to me. You must have a lot of corruption there since nobody can keep them in check, I mean what's the point of having elected officials, if the police can still do whatever they want?
Yeah really, where is it?
:)
Well, you posting annonymously tells where free speech is going.
Into FEAR! (Be scared)
No comparison. Phil wrote a program that others exported. Dmitry wrote a program that he distributed at defcon (that much is apparently provable).
Even if he's guilty of breaking the law, that doesn't change the fact that it is a bad law, and that is what should really be addressed.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
"If the FBI breaks the law while doing their job then they goto jail as well." Last I checked, the Constitution of the United States was still the highest law in the land. Despite the morons who try to undermine it at every pass (ie Demokrats and Republicans), the Constitution is still technically the law that guides all others. In fact, I'd be pretty surprized if FBI agents don't have to take an oath to uphold the Constitution when they take office. Since the DMCA is flagrantly unconstitutional, I'd say that they're not only breaking the law by upholding it, but they're breaking the highest law in the land. Oops.
This makes it a little better even. From the FBI Mission Statement:
In 1998, Director Freeh articulated five core values that guide employees in support of the FBI's mission; rigorous obedience to the Constitution; respect for the dignity of all those we protect; compassion; fairness; and uncompromising personal and institutional integrity.
Rigorous obedience to the Constitution...hmmmmm. Fairness...hmmmmm. Uncompromising personal and institutional integrity? Well, I tend to agree with those five core values. Too bad the FBI apparently doesn't.
-Perrin.
Now I want you to go in that bag and find my lightsaber. It's the one that says bad mother-fscker on it.
Yeah, sounds somewhat absurd. But I'm sure hARrY PoTtEr 0-DaY WaR3z would "sell"... =)
(I guess the works of classical music aren't exactly in the top-10 n8pst8red either...)
The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid laws can be corrected. Otherwise the public and congress never get any feedback that the law isn't working right.
In which case the best "feedback" would be to arrest the congressmen concerned and give them a a public test about the US constitution.
So he got released on bail. Big deal. So does pretty much anyone who is awaiting trial for a non-violent crime.
Why hype it so much?
Bzzzzzt..."AAAAaaaaarrrgh!!!" Thud.
I think Winston was a little tweaked about America ignoring the incipient rise of a Real Live Evil Empire in Europe until Pearl Harbor got us into `War Mode', where we still are today.
``Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has **always** been at war with Eastasia...''
Churchill was experienced with idiot leaders---his predecessor, Neville Chamberlain, was quite famous for appeasing Hitler. Of course, once he did his little Arthurian thing and saved England from the `Naaaawzis' (as he said it), the good folk of Britain promptly de-elected him. Schmucks.
You know, if France had had a Churchill, World War II would have probably been a lot shorter.
But to summarize: Churchill had good reason for calling the Americans slow to action---they were.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
*Thank* you!
While the situation may seem to call for hyperbole, we should all remain cognizant of the fact that one must be black, poor and smoke crack to be sent to the gulags here...
Uh, wait, that came out kind of funny.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
AFAIK he should be able to get a passport in almost any country from the local Russian embassy.
Neither you, I, or anyone else has the right to decide that another country's laws are unjust and need to be broken. When you travel you agree to follow the laws of the country you're visiting. If you don't like the laws, DON'T GO THERE. If you choose to break the law because you feel that it's unjust then you must face the consequences. Especially if you are breaking the law because you feel it's unjust. You are making a conscious choice to buck the system, if you're not smart enough to realize that you will have to face those consequences, that's your problem, it doesn't excuse you from being punished. Or more appropriately from having to fight the unjust law in the legal system that you broke it in.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Posting their home addresses in public fora is idiotic, and quite possibly an invasion of privacy. If you need to contact these folks, do so C/O Adobe.
You opinion isn't the law, thank god. He has been accused of breaking the law. He must stand trial for that. It's that simple
you make a point here, If someone has broken the law, they yes they go to trial. But man, what law has he broken. He should never have been arrested in the first place. He should be released because basically he gave a presentation that Adobe did not like. If anything, adobe should be taken to court for manipulating the law.
Now you also mentioned that this is a bad law. To be honest, the idea behind its sounds, basically to protect copy right material, but it needs some re wording so mega corps can't use t to there purposes.
I also liked a point that another in this thread made, I'd like to hear you say that again after taking a vacation in Afghanistan and being flogged for daring to shave or surf the web.
How would you feel, I would love to know man, you do nothing wrong in the country, but you get arrested for something you did in another country where it is legal. The US is again trying to set a world standard. If I want to try drugs legally, I am headed over to Amsterdam; What the US is saying here is that we don't have a law saying drugs are legal, so we will arrest you for what you did out side of our jurisdiction. It's the same idea if this happened. And to be honest, this scares the hell out of me, I am in Canada but my work sometimes takes me to the states to do some coding. If they do it to this guy, what's stopping them from doing the same to me?
My 2 cents plus 2 more challenging the bad law.
Not being allowed to leave California is one of the most Cruel and Unusual punishments I can imagine.
**>>BELCH
He is not a free man until he hits international airspace on a jet bound for Moscow.
Actually he'd be a free man the moment he borded a non US flagged ship or aircraft.
I guess I'll jump in here.
your attitude seems to me that the penalty for vandalism and assault ought to be death. Not only death but death without a jury, a trial, a lawyer, a sentence. No chance at appeals or the opportunity to call witnesses or defend yourself. In your eyes if a person commits vandalism then he or she ought to be summarily executed by any police officer who happens to be at the scene.
Unfortunately there are plenty of people like you in this world and that's why brutal opression exists all over the planet.
War is necrophilia.
If the above is factually correct, then the prosecution's only hope is to find relevant US law, precedent, or theories under which an ordinary employee of a corporation can be held to have criminal liability for the actions of the corporation.
Which is something which US corporate interests would not want to happen...
Some answers there. By that logic, what needs to happen is the expansion of the fair use doctrine to cover normal forms of access as well as copying. (It never needed to before because there was no way to restrict that access anyway.)
"Many protestors believe that the police actually infiltrated the black block and took part in some of the worst property destruction." ...
..
So what ? People do believe in aliens, you know
"or a young man wielding a fire extinguisher get fatally shot in the head."
Dude, I wonder how would you react if there was an mob-style angry guy with heavy fire extinguisher getting ready to throw it at you
Think about it for a second.
This was not "peaceful protester" but well prepared thug whose only goal was to cause mayhem and destruction.
Bottom line: if you DO NOT wield heavy objects at police, you do not get shot.
PS.
If your cause is so important that you are prepared to use violence then at least be consistent enough and restrain yourself from complaining when opposing side respond with same kind of violence.
> The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think
> are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid
> laws can be corrected. Otherwise the public and
> congress never get any feedback that the law
> isn't working right.
Oh come on now. If congress actually LISTENED,
they wouldnt have passed the DMCA in the first
place.
Today's letters are D, M, C, and A. Brought to you by the M P A A and the R I A A.
america, the best democracy money can buy.
Apparently, controlled substances are much easier to come by in Indiana.
Yes, they are. There's plenty of growing room.
Do all the people with teeth out here intimidate you?
I don't particularly like to be nipped. Some people are into that.
Or is it the genetic diversity (AKA family trees with BRANCHES)?
Ah, yet another unfortunate soul who puts too much time and effort into irrational generalizations. You're thinking Kentucky.
Maybe the traditional fallback - earthquakes, oh no!
Well, if earthquakes kill people, that just leaves less for me to do.
Or all the homosexuals, who somehow find straight, toothless, fat midwesterners strangely attractive?
Now this comment is truly disturbing. For a reason I don't suppose I'll ever comprehend, you assume that since I'm from Indiana, you can put down homosexuality in an attempt to get a rise from me. If you'd really done your homework, you'd find the city I am from boasts the highest percentage of GLBTs in this part of the country, second only to a California city. Frankly, I'm apauled you'd have the indecency to degrade people for the sake of rebutting a simple joke. Shame.
Or is it that suspenders aren't hip out here?
Suspenders are hip everywhere.
Maybe it's the constant good weather?
Yes, that must be it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Oh wait a minute, odds are you have never been here.
Hmm. Interesting assumption. Or perhaps my little joke is justified, in that I have been there and have found many many more places that I prefered. You poor unintellectual donkey. -WetDog
>You opinion isn't the law, thank god. He has been accused of breaking the law. He must stand trial for that. So if you were wrongly arrested for a crime, would you feel comfortable enough trusting our system when it came time to challenge the government's misdeed? ...and if you were released I suppose you'd have no hard feelings about being detained, questioned for hours on end, smeared publicly by the prosecution, etc...
In theory what you say is true, but when it's you on the receiving end it's painfully evident that the theoretical system isn't the same as the real deal.
People (that is, j00) who use `rofl' the same way civilized people use commas should be
* shot
* stabbed
* flayed
I hope you get cancer and die, just like your mother.
Ha ha funny lol!
I have a strong urge to GOUGE OUT YOUR EYEBALLS AND SKULLFUCK YOU!
No, he didn't plan on being a martyr perhaps, but I'll wager he did enjoy thoughts of becoming a counter-cultural hero of sorts.
The man wrote software to circumvent Adobe's encryption. Fine. He (HIM, not just his company) then sold it for a profit using American credit card systems. He didn't give it away to help the blind or any bleeding-heart nonsense like that. He broke the law, flaunted it and got busted. His fscking problem, IMHO.
All this 'Free Dimitry' nonsense is embarassing. Predictable, but embarassing.
**>>BELCH
Great, now the KGB can read Harry Potter for free!
From previous posts, I have gathered the following justifications for the main question people have: How can a Russian individual be charged for breaking an American law? Here's what I've seen so far: Dmitry is listed as _the_ copyright holder for the application. This means he has to approve of it's distribution. His company did market the software in the US at one point. Therefore, Dmitry implicitly approved of distributing a "circumvention device" (AEBPR) in the US, where is an illegal product. Once he was in the FBI's jurisdiction, they grabbed him. According to previous posts, the warrant for his arrest was issued even before he gave his speech at the convention. :) Thanks!
I know, I suck, I have not a single link. But it is a summation of what I've seen in the multiple threads that try to present the other sides view that actually might make sense. Of course, I think that an encryption "circumvention device" is a crock, and any legislation that tries to make it illegal has no chance of actually making these "devices" disappear. Quite the contrary, I think it helps publicize what new "devices" there are out there!
Lac
Vidi Vici Veni
Thanks for the sig
>>The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid laws
>>can be corrected
>How about this. Soldiers should follow orders,
>even if they think they are illegal, that is the
>only way the stupid officers can be removed.
>Isn't it the duty of a soldier do disobey an
>illegal order? Why couldn't it be the same
>for police forces?
Soldiers are only supposed to disobey illegal orders, not orders they think are stupid.
I'm just curious, what do you think a soldier should do if he is given an illegal order, BUT he happens to not like the law that makes the order illegal?
So he's out, which is most excellent, but he is still confined to Socal. I'm sure his family is what he misses most and needs more than anything right now.
Is anyone planning or raising funds for bringing his family to the US?
The best (and only) way I've seen so far to help support uniting Dmitri with his family is to contribute directly to him through the PayPal account posted at Elcomsoft. I urge everyone here to do so.
For starters, as this is a Federal prosecution, it's the US Attorney, not a D.A. In either case, they're shielded by prosecutorial immunity.
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Do publish home addresses. We are in 2001 after all.
How about shoe, car or computer makers being held accountable for the criminal acts of people using their products, idiot?
Makes about as much sense to sue IBM for Code Red as it does to sue Colt because some shit head shot you.
Grow a brain and stop your whining.
Hey, I was there from about 10:45 AM to noon. Where would I send pictures I took with my digital camera? I don't have any place to host the pictures from.
This is ridiculous. In jail for doing his job doing it well, and being willing to share his knowledge... Congratulations to the feds.
We do the right thing.... sooner or later.... heh.
Oh well, I guess I'm just an eternal cyncic. Still, I'm very glad this happened, and hopefully he'll be able to get on with his life ASAP. Props to his employer for raising the cash. Somehow I doubt Adobe would ever do the right thing and reimburse them. I must say this whole experience has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth regarding Adobe.... I'll make sure never to purchase any of their products, and reccomend the same to any of my employers/employees/anyone.
He's gonna have a lot of e-mail to catch up on. Wasn't he in jail for the whole SirCam bit?
BilldaCat
who the idiot bail bondsman was that bet he wouldn't hop on the first flight to Moscow.
In addition to the $50,000 raised by ElcomSoft for his release, will they be helping with his legal defense as well?
I'm sure that the EFF and hopefully even the ACLU will pitch in to his ongoing legal defense also... what other groups could get involved as well? And do they even know enough to get involved?
His employer raised that money? That's great! Talk about dedication! More companies should back their employees in this manner. I can hardly believe this; are they hiring???
We dance to all the wrong songs.
--Refused.
I think the feds should pay HIM $50,000 personally and get him on a private luxery jet home and get down on their knees and beg for forgivness :)
Bravo! Now, another 10 grand could easily smuggle him out of the country. Freedom is worth it.
What is Think Geek going to do with all of those Free Dimitri shirts they just got in? Nobody is going to want them now....
If, as they claim, Adobe doesn't want him prosecuted any more, then why don't THEY pay the $50000 bail?
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
So he posted bail; this is newsworthy? Even if you think the case is important, this doesn't add anything, unless you're going to argue that the bail amount was too large or too small.
... for pointing something that should get hyped in every dealing that anyone sympathetic to Sklyarov's plight has with anyone else: that this was legal under Russian law.
Seriously, the fact that he's a Russian (read "commie") coder (read "hacker") can, and may, get played against him in the press to no end, so it's nice just to see those little words, "legal in Russia," that should humble the cretins who pushed this misguided law.
"Ah, for the freedoms of Mother Russia..." *sigh*
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
Given that this guy is being jailed for an IP "crime" with penalties up to $500,000, does a bail amount of $50000 indicate that the judge thought maybe the feds were overstepping a little?
Any lawyers present? Did elcomsoft only have to put up a 10% surety in cash?
Remain calm! All is well!
I would bolt my ass back to Russia and figure out
how to work off the $50k. Screw standing trial
when he knows it's just gonna be another David
and Goliath case.
It is if your name is Snake Plissken.
he still won't be allowed to leave Northern California...
Which earnestly solicits the question "may he code???"
If he stays is going to be a long way...
He can escape as a sign of protest but I guess that will hurt hackers' image even more.
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
Here are a couple new SF Chronicle articles of interest:
Probably only applicable to those of us in Silicon Valley, but is anyone else interested in taking him out for a beer and some decent food? Show him the parts of the US that don't suck....
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
The quote at the bottom of the /. page somehow seems appropriate right now.
"Tell me what to think!!!"
If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast.
(Usual disclaimers: IANAL etc.)
Finding God in a Dog
California: Vast, beatiful scenery
Jail: 4x6 cell, concrete
California: Sunshine
Jail: Flourescent track lights, or perhaps a bare bulb. (Note: I don't speak from experience here, but from such great documentaries as "The Shawshank Redemption"", "Escape From Alcatraz", and "Sleepers")
California: I'm hungry, I haven't eaten in like 8 hours, this sucks.
Jail: This constantly being beaten by corrupt guards sucks.
California: Bikini (somewhat)clad women, everyone stares at hungrily.
Jail: You (*shudder*).
shaddup
Russian Programmer Arrested at Hacker Convention Is Freed on $50,000 Bail
By Brian Bergstein Associated Press Writer
Published: Aug 6, 2001
SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A Russian computer programmer charged with distributing a program to crack encrypted software was released on $50,000 bond Monday and ordered to stay in Northern California while he awaits trial.
With dozens of protesters gathered outside the federal courthouse, Dmitry Sklyarov made his first court appearance in San Jose since being arrested July 16 and charged with violating the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
Sklyarov, 26, is thought to be the first person to face criminal prosecution under the act, and his case has generated international protests.
An interpreter explained the procedures to Sklyarov, who speaks halting English. Prosecutors and defense attorney Joseph Burton agreed on the bond conditions.
The bond is being paid for by Sklyarov's company, and he has been turned over to the custody of a Russian-American software engineer who lives in Cupertino.
The case concerns Adobe Systems' eBook Reader, software that lets publishers impose strong restrictions on the use of books they sell online. While working for Elcomsoft Co. Ltd. of Moscow, Sklyarov came up with ways around those restrictions - so electronic books could be transferred from one computer to another or used in text-to-speech programs, for example.
Such programs are legal in Russia but banned under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Adobe complained to the FBI, and agents arrested Sklyarov in Las Vegas, where he had traveled to speak at a computer security convention.
Sklyarov's supporters say there is no evidence anyone has used his program to violate copyrights on electronic books. Adobe dropped its support of the case on July 23.
Sklyarov could face five years in prison and a $500,000 fine if convicted.
---
On the Net:
Sklyarov supporters: http://freesklyarov.org
Adobe Systems: http://www.adobe.com
Prosecutors: http://www.usaondca.com
AP-ES-08-06-01 1454EDT
Ummm, he is most certainly not free. He is just out on bond awaiting trial. He has no passport, and no freedom of movement (he can't leave California, and he most certainly can't go home to Russia).
Yes, this is an improvement of his general situation, but this is far from over. He still faces the possibility of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and years in prison.
For now, he just has a much bigger jail cell.
The message our lawmakers are sending to hackers is clear; leave the copy protection alone and instead just beat the f*cking shit out of the copyright holder.
I hope Dimitry flees. There won't be any justice for him here.
...is that it doesn't clarify the real difference between the legality in Russia and the illegality in the States -- i.e. that the reason you're allowed to do this in Russia is to make backups for personal use.
Overall, I think it's a reasonable story, and not slanted. But the average reader (side-note: how much do we think this will be picked up by the mass-circulation papers?) will end up thinking that this is a symptom of the decline of the Russian ex-empire in that it's legal to pirate CDs there. The reality, of course, is the reverse: it's legal to make a fair-use backup for your own purposes, as opposed to out-and-out piracy, and that is what Sklyarov's software addresses.
If I was him I'd say "screw the friggin US (non)justice system" and head for either Canada or Mexico just as fast as I could. Maybe Mexico would be better because they have direct flights to Cuba and fakes for just about everything (including passports). Unfortunately, this would be another nail in the coffin of any hope we have of seeing the DMCA overturned. Glad I'm not in his shoes right now... Hobson's choice, right? How'd you like that on your shoulders?
You're using her as bait, Master!
We'll be sorry to lose a test of the law, but we'll understand you skin is more precious to you. Fly and e-mail us from Russia! You have nothing to win here, and a whole lot to lose.
Maybe the INS will do him a favor deport him.
Tobin came home today.. Why aren't I surprised?
> Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in > digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and > transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a > violation of the DMCA. > What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty? It has yet to be determined what Sklyarov did was a violation of the DMCA! This is what we are up against - bad reporting! A better article: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45870,00 .html"
Why do you say that? What evidence is there that Sklyarov was responsible for distributing the software in the U.S.? He's not charged with writing the software, because even the feds know it was perfectly legal for Sklyarov to write it in Russia.
Sorry, Mr. Sklyarov, we're sorry, so sorry we have laws here that you don't agree with. We understand you aren't a citizen, so it's a minor inconvenience to circumvent our pitiful voter registration protections (thanks to the Motor Voter bill) and vote anyways, but that's still inconvenient. The only way you had to 'express yourself' was to just break our laws. We're so so sorry we left you no other avenue. So sorry. Please accept our humble forgivness, oh 'leet h4x0r.
check this out on CNN. Gun victims cannot sue the makers of guns...
Front Page article in the LA Times about E-Books and Dmitry. Had a great picture of one of the protests on an inside continuation page (pic not available on line, bummer!).
LA Times article on the bail.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I think the real fact of the matter is that what Sklyarov did in his own country was well within the confines of Russian legality. From his point of view, he most certainly did not break the law. The United States is setting a new precedent in legislation. Do internet laws have unlimited jurisdiction? If so, who decides what these universal laws will be? Apparently, the US is taking it upon themselves to baby-sit the entire world. Hypothetical situation time: Say, for instance, I'm the writer of a strongly capitalistic, widely circulated e-zine, and I publish an article denouncing the dictator of a communist country. I then decide to take a trip to said country. "Well, I'm sorry, but we don't have this 'freedom of speech' thing here. You're under arrest." For some reason that just doesn't seem right to me, but mayve that's just me.
- Don't get in fights with ugly people, they've got nothing to lose. -
Is this a precursor to the widely expected split of California into North and South? Where is the boundary between these (soon to be two) states that Dimitry cannot cross?
Props to him on his bold defense of international freedom of speech.
-Ben
If he was really a valuable employee, his employer would have put out an insurance policy on him... especially for stuff like this. Heck, my autoclub provides me a $5000 bond for my $12/yr membership fee.
Do all the people with teeth out here intimidate you? Or is it the genetic diversity (AKA family trees with BRANCHES)? Maybe the traditional fallback - earthquakes, oh no! Or all the homosexuals, who somehow find straight, toothless, fat midwesterners strangely attractive? Or is it that suspenders aren't hip out here? Maybe it's the constant good weather?
Oh wait a minute, odds are you have never been here.
Got Rhinos?
Until he was arrested I really didn't know what the big deal was, now I know what this country is really able to do, they can put smart people in jail while real criminals are out there getting away with crimes. This arrest has really opened my eyes to real issues. I am not going to be hugging trees and saving fish anymore.
Here's hoping that Dmitry takes the first bus down to the nearest Russian Embassy and hitches a ride home.
Let Elcomsoft's $50K in bail money be hazard pay to Dmitry and count it as a loss.
As for the Feds...screw 'em.
...*if* he escapes maybe Russia would do well to beam broadcasts into the US.
He could host Radio Free U.S.A. and let the folks behind the DMCA curtain know what's going on.
--
The Coward
that isn't the question, the question is can the US processicute a crime commited in anouther country.
Minnesota where I live has made prostitution illegal. Nevada has not, If I hire a prostitute in Nevada I can return home to Minnesota and I cannot be arrested. This isn't a case of Minnesota choosing not to prossicute, they cannot arrest me.
i'd high-tail it over to the russian embassy and get on a plane home.
--
and the Irishman took the fly in his hands and yelled, "spit it out!"
Running away does not fix the issue(ie. a bad law was passed). I can't believe people even suggest this as a correct corse of action.
There are two common ways to change the laws in most places in the US and at the Federal level.
- Get the lawmakers to amend the law
- Have a high court over turn the law
I would rather have courts review the law, all the way up to the Supreme Court, than to have lawmakers muck around with this issue any more. If Sklyarov flees how can the issue be pushed? It is a risk that unfortunately only Sklyarov can face but if not him who and when? Letting this horribly bad law sit on the books any longer is as a bad an idea as telling Sklyarov to run for it.
He'll get his ass back to Russia. Once he figures out the legal costs and his potential for incarceration I think he'll realise that it's in his best interest to flee prosecution. Hell! it's in ElcomSoft's best interests if he flees. $50,000 might sound like a lot, but once you start to think in terms of billable hours its really isn't that much. The sooner he's back at work the better it will be for them. It may be in the DOJ's best interest too. If you consider that this isn't exactly a popular case for them. Come to think of it... isn't $50,000 bail for someone that is as much of a flight risk as Sklyarov a bit low? Granted, he won't be able to return to the US again....but would he really want to? If it were you would you want to?
The last time I checked, even though the west won ther cold war US law was NOT the Law of the Land in Russia.
There is the legal concept of "Fighting Words". This covers things like inciting to riot, or other illegal acts. The Supreme Court has issued many rulings on this. These are the rulings that allow Nazis to stroll through a jewish neighborhood, while under police protection. This area of law is part of free speech rights, and basically knocks down the idea that you can be arrested for incitement to an illegal act. IANAL. A search for the phrase will turn up many referances.
People can buy instruments of violence in the US. But tread on someone's imagined profits, and watch out. Even if you are just speaking, or selling.
There could be a tremendous constitutional legal issue tied up with this. I hope the DCMA gets nailed.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
and replace Forrest with Dmitry and append "out of the country"
Thus allowing him to stay in the country, work to make enough money to eat and fuel the U.S legal system. (not necessarily in that order)
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
When did he get transferred to California?
Anybody else wondering if there's any connection between Sklyarov's release and John Tobin's parole? Eh, best not to look too close at these things, huh?
Just hope they junk the DMCA and stop imprisoning people for a little dope while Wall Street jerks off over the prospect of hooking us all cheap, generic happy pills (Prozac).
Rogue Bolo
print them out and sell them on ebay with the headlines: "Direct From The Source! Live and Uncensored" ... i guarantee you get a sh*tload of money from it...
Don't let them get off here. Remember who PUT Dimitri in jail! DON'T let them pull the shit they did and then walk away unscathed! Hit them where they will feel it...their pocketbook!
Wouldn't it be a stitch, if he escaped to the Russian embassy in Canada, claiming political asylum?
Don't tell me the CIA doesn't kill people without due process.
...and yet only today was an article in the Chicago Tribune about Skylarov being in jail, essentially a rehash of what appeared in the NYT (was talked about last week? in slashdot).
yeah, first post after #84...
speaking of which i got first post too, right after the one before this one...
Pictures now up here
Requires:
Several friends. An entire day to waste drunk. Numerous servings of the alcoholic beverage of your choice.
Often, we see the same things day in and day out on slashdot. Why not use it as an excuse to get drunk?
Rules:
1.Start around 9am, EST, when it's reasonable to assume hordes of slashdotters will have gotten to work and begun wasting the day trying to get first post on their company's fat pipe. (If you can actually drink at work, post where you work. I'll send my resume)
1a. If you can't get all your friends together for an all day binge, start at night with the oldest article.
2. Play ends when everyone has passed out, puked, or surrendered. Last one drinking wins. Play shall be suspended if anyone is rushed to the hospital for alcohol poisoning.
3.For every article with grevious spelling or grammatical errors on the front page, drink a shot.
4.For every front page broken link, drink a shot.
5.For every JonKatzBot article, drink two shots.
5a. Read the article.
5b. Drink a shot for every appearance of the phrase "coporate republic"
6.Drink a shot if the first post on a new article is remotely on topic.
6a. Drink another shot if it gets modded up to +5 funny
6b. Drink Two shots if it gets modded to +5 interesting or insightful. 6c. If someone has moderator points, and blows them all on modding the first poster up, then that player need not drink, no matter how unfair the moderating.
7. Drink a shot for every link to goatse.cx
7a. Drink a shot for every ASCII version of the goatse.cx pic presented in the comments.
8. Drink half a shot for every comment that mentions either:
a. Natalie Portman
b. Beowulf Clusters
9. Drink a shot for every offtopic comment involving the sexual escapades of any slashdot staff.
10.Drink a shot if the slashdot fortune was generated with a script.
11. Drink a shot for every poster who has a porn site link in their sig.
12. Drink a shot for every sig that mentions anonymous cowards.
13. Drink a shot if someone has their UID in their sig, or mentions it.
14. Drink a shot for any comment that has been moderated to hell (IE, moderated = 15. Any player who has Karma =15a. =15b. = 50 skips 3 drinks
15c. >= -1, one drink penalty
15d. >= -8 two drink penalty
Have fun!
Let's report federaly funded Quantum computer research scientist to the FBI at the next major Quantum Physics confrence. After all, they are creating devices for circumventing the copyright protection on libraries of encrypted information. Let's demand that all papers on using Quantum computers to factor large numbers be turn over to the FBI and thier authors prosecuted.
Simple people talk of people, better people talk of events, great people talk of ideas.
Sklyarov was handcuffed and wearing a fetching orange T-shirt from the Santa Clara County Main Jail collection.
The proceeding itself was mostly dull and could just as easily have been done over the phone. No controversy or disagreement. The judge seemed to just want to get the whole thing over with as routinely as possible. The only additional information he asked for was some assurance that Dmitry's immigration status would not interfere with the trial proceedings. And while the papers are reporting that the U.S. attorney is still holding Sklyarov's passport, he did make clear that it would be handed over to the court at their discretion.
The next court appearance is scheduled for August 23, so Dmitry must be indicted within that time for the case to go forward.
After the hearing was over, nine tenths of the people left the room, and the whole proceeding only took about twenty minutes.
He gets $50000 bail for allowing someone to potentialy read an ebook, but a cop who kills a family of four in NYC over the weekend get out ROR?!? WTF?!?
If Calif. Supreme Courts just ruled victims can't sue gun makers, how in the heck can Adobe even THINK of sueing Dimitry?
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
I've been discussing a wild theory with some of my acquintances: Sklyarov may simply be a pawn in a game played by the US Department of State.
During the Cold War we exchanged spies. Recently, two private citizens were accused of spying (Pope and Tobin) and unjustly sent to the slammer in Russia. Could the DoJ attitude toward Dmitri Sklyarov have been encouraged by the Department of State?
If you think about it, it makes a twisted sort of sense. There is plenty of spy paranoia left over in Russia, so it's almost natural for them to aprehend someone on espionage charges. Try getting a visa to go to Russia, particularly somewhere other than Moscow or St. Petersburg, and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Here in the US we have plenty of business interests, and the Almighty Dollar is what dictates how justice is carried out (remember that Al Capone was nailed for tax evasion in spite of all the other crimes attributed to him).
When Pope and Tobin were originally caught and convicted the State Department and everyone else under the sun claimed they were innocent. The Russian judicial system ignored these pleas and convicted both (and both were freed shortly after). Could the handling of Sklyarov's case be no more than tit-for-tat?
What do you think?
Ehttp://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
buying the offending product from elcomsoft to help them raise money?
The REAL people responsible for this whole situation are the INDIVIDUALS WHO FILED THE COMPLAINT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
These people made a PERSONAL decision to prosecute Sklyarov, and it was their INDIVIDUAL decision to cry foul under the DMCA.
We have their names from the criminal complaint document, why hasn't anyone in the media contacted them?
The individuals responsible:
Kevin Nathanson - eBooks Group Product manager, complainant to the FBI.
Daryl Spano - Adobe "Anti-piracy" investigator, also complainant to the FBI.
Tom Diaz - Senior Engineering Manager for eBook
Daniel J O'Connell - FBI agent who filed the complaint.
The media needs to put the spotlight on these I N D I V I D U A L S who are personally responsible for Sklyarov's situation.
Well, at least everyone assumes that the CIA are dirty, drug dealing sleazebags -- that we sic on other people!
That's ok, nobody we know was hurt.
The problem with when the FBI runs amok burning down church orphanages is that their jurisdiction is inside our borders -- ouch! stop hittimg me!
Dmitry has NO civic duty to the U.S. I don't think he's going to jump bail. But if he does, it's a purely tactical decision and I'll continue to support him. He doesn't owe the U.S. legal system a damn thing.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/06/048208
...
:)
Good luck hooking up with Sklyarov. If I were in San Francisco with a Russian person, I'd like to take him or her to The Stinking Rose (a place I've eaten near but not at), but the choices of eating venue are so amazing that's only one good choice out of thousands
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Has anyone considered the fact that he could potentially be 'extradited' (is that the right word?) back to the US? If it was just for violating a US law while in Russia, I'm sure the Russian government would never allow it, but fleeing while on bail may be a slightly different story... And if, by chance, he does flee, and the extradition is successfuly, he's screwed...
No, IANAL, but take what I said into consideration before fleeing...
________________________________________________
suwain_2
damn, after reading the news about the american student who was held unfairly in russia and then released yesterday, i couldn't help but think there was a private exchange behind the scenes regarding our american prisoner and Dimitry. i think Dmitry was being made an example of as a way for the US to get back at Russia for unfairly holding our american student on bullshit (planted) drug charges.
after reading the full story regarding our jailed american student, i couldn't help but laugh as i read all the 'Free Dmitry' sites! i mean, maybe the US doesn't feel so strongly about the speech and freedom issues like we think they do. perhaps they were just playing a bit of hard ball with the russians to get our american student released...
just my thoughts...
I think I hve met this custodian dude on one of the Russian parties around here - need to check - will invite him for barbeque in Santa Clara.. ;-)
I do not think he should flee. He will get case dismissed - and find a good job around here. It is nice for us, russians, in the good old B.A. ;)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
So, what does the U.S. gov't do if he high-tails it to the russian consulate and asks for political asylum?
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010806/tc/hacker _convention_arrest_3.html
Notice how it says Russian programmer whereas everywhere else I keep seeing Russian hacker
I wouldn't blame him at all for running, but I really hope he doesn't.
Notes on this: Dima is not yet out of jail. Bond is posted, but he now has to process out of Santa Clara County Jail.
Background: When I was a dumb college kid many years ago, I flaked out on several speeding tickets and such, and wound up with several warrants for Failure to Appear. The total dollar amount was $1400, and as a minimum wage cashier for a pet shop there was no way in hell I could pay it. So, on Sunday evening of Spring Break week, I turned myself in to the local PD. 2 court appearances later (different jurisdictions) both judges declared time served, making me a free man in theory. Reality was it took a day and a half from the judge declaring me free to me walking out of LA County Jail a free man. Dima is a bit higher profile than I am, but it's still going to take some time.
Even when he hits the streets, he is still imprisoned, just in a 3000 mile wide cell. He is not a free man until he hits international airspace on a jet bound for Moscow. He is still separated from his family, his job, and his school, and facing 5 years imprisonment in a foreign country.
Ergo, we must continue to turn up the heat. This is yet another small victory, like Adobe, but the war is far from over. On a positive note, press coverage is picking up, and more publicity is a very good thing. Let's not lose our momentum here folks, onward... Free Dima!
ehintz
We may have a stupid government, but when was the last time that our federal government's bureacracy officially told a state government to "reconsider" an election the way the European Union told Ireland to reconsider its most recent?! Guns are banned in Great Britain, interestingly enough our State Department quietly adds London to a list of cities where American tourists shouldn't visit because of the crime rate.
The difference between the US and Europe is that we aren't ass backwards when it comes to punishing criminals most of the time. Ever heard the story about how an old guy got sent to prison in Britain for killing in self-defense a young, tall and very buff looking man who was approaching him after he broke into the old man's house? Yes, let's be "progressive" like Europe. Let's outlaw the death penalty because it's a "human rights violation" and send our elderly to rot in prison for shooting potentially homocidal burglars in self-defense.
Remember your Senator next election. These, to my knowledge, are the Senators who voted for the DMCA. Write letter, make phone calls, but above all else don't forget to VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT.
AK Frank Murkowski Republican
AK Ted Stevens Republican
AL Jeff Sessions Republican
AL Richard Shelby Republican
AR Dale Bumpers Democrat
AR Tim Hutchinson Republican
AZ John McCain Republican
AZ Jon Kyl Republican
CA Barbara Boxer Democrat
CA Diane Feinstein Democrat
CO Ben Campbell Republican
CO Wayne Allard Republican
CT Chris Dodd Democrat
CT Joe Lieberman Democrat
DE Joe Biden Democrat
DE William Roth Republican
FL Bob Graham Democrat
FL Connie Mack Republican
GA Max Cleland Democrat
GA Paul Coverdell Republican
HI Daniel Akaka Democrat
HI Daniel Inouye Democrat
IA Charles Grassley Republican
IA Tom Harkin Democrat
ID Dirk Kempthorne Republican
ID Larry Craig Republican
IL Carol Braun Democrat
IL Richard Durbin Democrat
IN Dan Coats Republican
IN Richard Lugar Republican
KS Pat Roberts Republican
KS Sam Brownback Republican
KY Mitch McConnell Republican
KY Wendell Ford Democrat
LA John Breaux Democrat
LA Mary Landrieu Democrat
MA John Kerry Democrat
MA Ted Kennedy Democrat
MD Barbara Mikulski Democrat
MD Paul Sarbanes Democrat
ME Olympia Snowe Republican
ME Susan Collins Republican
MI Carl Levin Democrat
MI Spencer Abraham Republican
MN Paul Wellstone Democrat
MN Rod Grams Republican
MO John Ashcroft Republican
MO Kit Bond Republican
MO Max Baucus Democrat
MS Thad Cochran Republican
MS Trent Lott Republican
MT Conrad Burns Republican
NC Jesse Helms Republican
NC Lauch Faircloth Republican
ND Byron Dorgan Democrat
ND Kent Conrad Democrat
NE Chuck Hagel Republican
NE Robert Kerrey Democrat
NH Bob Smith Republican
NH Judd Gregg Republican
NJ Frank Lautenberg Democrat
NJ Robert Torricelli Democrat
NM Jeff Bingaman Democrat
NM Pete Domenici Republican
NV Harry Reid Democrat
NV Richard Bryan Democrat
NY Al D'Amato Republican
NY Daniel Moynihan Democrat
OH John Glenn Democrat
OH Mike DeWine Republican
OK Don Nickles Republican
OK James Inhofe Republican
OR Gordon Smith Republican
OR Ron Wyden Democrat
PA Arlen Specter Republican
PA Rick Santorum Republican
RI Jack Reed Democrat
RI John Chaffee Republican
SC Fritz Hollings Democrat
SC Strom Thurmond Republican
SD Tim Johnson Democrat
SD Tom Daschle Democrat
TN Fred Thompson Republican
TN William Frist Republican
TX Kay Hutchison Republican
TX Phil Gramm Republican
UT Bob Bennett Republican
UT Orrin Hatch Republican
VA Charles Robb Democrat
VA John Warner Republican
VT James Jeffords Republican
VT Patrick Leahy Democrat
WA Patty Murray Democrat
WA Slade Gorton Republican
WI Herb Kohl Democrat
WI Russ Feingold Democrat
WV Jay Rockefeller Democrat
WV Robert Byrd Democrat
WY Craig Thomas Republican
WY Mike Enzi Republican
I know this has probably been said before...but...
Speaking as an American, it's a fucking sad state of affairs when WE hold a RUSSIAN in jail with NO BAIL for what essentially should, if anything, be a CIVIL MATTER. If the former USSR had done the same to an American citizen, our politicians would have shit nickels for media attention, pontificating about the "Soviet menace to a free society".
It makes me wonder if we've become what we once fought so hard to prevent.
> Is this a precursor to the widely expected split of California into North and South? Where is the boundary between these (soon to be two) states that Dimitry cannot cross?
The 38th parallel.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
As anyone reading my posts here, elsewhere, and any of the fiction I've put on line will notice, I have a particular loathing for our home-grown secret police we call the FBI.
But this is extremely unfair not just to Dmitry (who has my sympathy), but also to the FBI (who doesn't). The people getting off scott-free are the people who deserve to be eviscerated for this unjust debacle the most:
Indeed, violating one's oath to uphold the contitution in such an obscene and blatent manner should be grounds for impeachment of those who sponsored the legislation, those who voted for it, and he who signed it. But alas, the constitution is clearly little more than toilet paper within the D.C. Beltway.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I'm the AC author of (#112) and all I can think is that some knee-jerk slashbot gifted me with a +1, insightful. They damn sure didn't read the second line of that post, else I woulda got splanged with both a -1, troll and a -1, flamebait.
good googley-moogley! you guys take the fun out of even scoring cheap positive moderation!
You, sir, just hit upon an important point about this whole mess :
"It's just a rogue copyright state that violated his human rights and threw him in jail"
The United States Government cares more about protecting (corporate) copyright than (individual) human rights.
They held that poor boy for three weeks without even seeing a judge. That's unconstitutional.
"This, I think, is perhaps one of the most frightening signs of the difficult times we have ahead of us: common people don't expect that they should have the right to share "copyrighted" information."
Uhhhh... that article was written by a journalist, who should have at one point taken some class where trivialities like copyright law and "fair use" were covered. I would find such a comment from a normal joe to be chilling. When an alledged "professional" is so misinformed is downright scary.
I still don't think the EFF has done diddley to help him really.
I'd much rather see people e-mailing the REAL Lawyers who help those burned by unconstitutional laws, the Institute for Justice.
Here's a law team that really pushes the envelope on laws that are obviously unconstitutional, AND they have a long list of cases not only where they have won their client's cases, BUT THEY HAVE CHANGED THE LAWS! How's that for freedom?
You know, that's a damned good idea. Gentlemen, Herman Mellville's masterpeice Moby Dick provided for your reading pleasure by project Gutenberg.
friends don't let friends teleport drunk
Upon leaving the jailhouse in Santa Clara, Dmitry was asked what he would do next. He replied,
"I am prohibited by court order from going to Disneyland. I'm going to Cupertino."
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely Place
Such a lovely Place (background)
Such a lovely face
They're Servin' it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise
What a nice surprise (background)
Bring your alibies
Mirrors at the protests
because flyers won't suffice
Hillary Rosen said
We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device
And in the judges chambers
They wreseled with the beast
They sue geeks with their witty lies
But they just won't disist and cease
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
Relax said the fed man
We are programed to recieve
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave
(cool guitar solo)
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
What they released that hacker out on bail? Are they crazy they should have denied him parole... He hacked into Adobe software and exposed confidential informaiton that the client did not want to be made public. What gives him the right to be free... I am afriad in this capatialistic society, we have no rights for the business man...all it is invasion of their privacy. I hope this shows the hacker community that some times its bad to hack
Apparently you haven't been to Silicon Valley. What you describe sounds more like coastal Southern California. SV is more like: vast, endless traffic, no decent restaurants (only endless tech company offices), no women at all (only male techies).
Where a monolith controls all things software, and with every release intends to control more, and learn more about everything you do with that computer.
Where a person can be arrested for looking into a product he buys, and sharing the findings with others.
As I look around my property today, there is not a single tangible thing that I cannot open, examine and post my findings on the web...save one:
The Windows95 CD I have in a box in the garage.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
As others have noted here, we must do what we can to keep the pressure on. Currently (6:30pm eastern) the Fox News site (www.foxnews.com) has a reference on their front page to the bail hearing. Big media companies like Fox keep track of their hits and visiting the link may help to convince Fox's producers to keep an eye on the story... just a thought.
NULL
...was who's BITCH he was in prision!
No, no, I'm sure the DOJ will happily do the following in the near future:
Because of course the DMCA is concerned with justice, not with protecting US companies from foreign competition. No way.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Donations?
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
From the 'Martyr or criminal?' article:
Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act or they'll never be able to make money selling electronic books. If programmers are allowed to crack eBook encryption, the next Napster-style trading system will be exchanging copies of "Moby Dick" instead of songs by Moby, they warn.
From the Project Gutenburg website:
DOWNLOAD: moby.zip - 591 KB
Let's just hope no one alerts the FBI. ;)
I've got a spare couch and a cable modem. If he can get to Victoria BC, he's welcome to stay here until he can get a plane ticket back home. What he's done isn't illegal under Canadian law (which means that I won't be guilty of harbouring a fugitive), so the worst that can happen is that he'll get deported back to Russia for entering Canada under false pretenses -- he won't be sent back to the US.
www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
The fact that he, as a foreign national, and a HUGE flight risk, was released on bail at all, is an excellent sign that the court sees the chances of Adobe prevailing as slim. I see NO reason why he'd have been allowed to post bail otherwise.
Thank GOD that he's free. Not that he IS free, he's in the USA, particularly California. The Sklyarov case, I'm sad to say, makes me ashamed of my country. He puts a HUMAN face on the DMCA.
All I can say, is WOE to Adobe, for imprisoning an innocent man, and even more WOE to the Congress and President who broke their oaths to "protect and defend" The Constitution by enacting the DMCA.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
I just met the guy we all have been fighting for!!! I have no regrets what-so-ever. In fact after meeting him I know I have been doing the right thing. more Photos also!!!
I've been trying to explain this situation to my mother, who is a 1st grade elementary school teacher and clueless enough regarding technology that it took her over a year to learn how to use a VCR. (She is now using AOL to surf the internet... but I gotta acknowledge that it is a good fit)
I was trying to explain why copyright needs to expire, and why the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act was really a bad thing. I kept trying to come up with really absurd ideas because I was originally trying to explain why "Steamboat Willie", by Walt Disney, should be in the public domain by now. She just didn't get it and even said that Disney should get perpetual copyright protection.
I knew that she had totally lost it when I suggested that the heirs of William Shakespear might complain and demand royalties for plays written by the great bard. She thought it was a good idea and was trying to decide how we should go about paying those royalties...
Hmm.
From the EU perspective, the following question has popped up in my head:
Adobe eBooks and the reader are available for sale in the EU, where it should be legal to make a single copy of an eBook for personal backup use.
So how is it possible to make these legal copies?
I've just mailed this question to Adobe Germany's customer support, and await an answer.
Anyone got an idea about the backup obligations if any,
a company has when selling software products in the EU?
Although it is normally taken for granted , even if the product is shipped from the US, by being offered for sale and taxed in the EU, it is covered by EU consumer protection laws.
So, where do the US DCMA and EU consumer laws conflict?
Ideas?
(R)ule in Hell or (S)erve in Heaven [R]?
..eee.. I am pretty sure that jumping bail IS illegal in Canada.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
. . . to make it easier for corporations with multi-national interests to off him. It will look as though he was fleeing the country. Ack
Does Dimitri like fishing? Shark fishing? Darn, I've always wanted to go shark fishing in the Pacific!
Perhaps they mean state of mind? In other words the communist, tree-hugging, marijuana-fogged Notheren Californian vs. the tax-happy, facsist, 4th Reich cadre of the metropolitan South?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act or
they'll never be able to make money selling electronic books.
Gee. I wonder if I can get the U.S. Congress to pass a law that says I have to be able to make a profit, no matter what stupid business I decide to get into.
He could probably live with these restrictions, but it can crimp your style.
And that's assuming no one puts a bounty on him in Russia. Heck, people do contract killings there for a pittance in U.S. dollars. Kidnapping him and getting him out of the country ought to be real cheap.
To all of those making the naive assertion that "Sklyarov is accused of breaking the law, therefor he must stand trial": Time to open your eyes to see beyond the black and white illusion of idealized justice. Justice is for sale in this country, to the highest bidder and to those with the political muscle. Consider the selective enforcement of the "victimless" crimes (drugs, gambling, sexual proscriptions), tax laws and copyright laws (both skewed to favor the corporate interests): certainly the vast majority of Americans are "criminals" who have broken one or more of these laws, yet the prosecution falls overwhelmingly on the poor and the politically impotent. Unless a strong grassroots movement arises to support him, Dmitry falls into the latter category (evil communist hacker). If, on the other hand, programmers, scientists, and academicians can organize and bare their collective political fangs, the charges will be dropped, and deservedly so. We should not weaken our position unnecessarily with unrealistic illusionary concepts of idealized justice.
Honestly, there are other people who wrote the bill and placed the situation in the FBI's hands for them to enforce it. The FBI does not interperet or create horrible laws, it just enforces these acts as expeditiously as possible. I know FBI agents, they're genuine, honest, and they are good at what they do.
Was that before, or was it after we sent our sons to die in the name of his country? Honestly, there is nothing better than a good 'ol Churchill cheap shot to legitimize your American backhand. Really, I assume in that case that he was talking about military deployment or battlefield action in WWII... I assume that he could've probably cared less about our legal system.
Here's a point I haven't seen examined yet. IANAL, but I don't see how Dmitry can be charged with violating DMCA anti-circumvention (DMCA-AC hereinafter). Here's why:
Premise: As I understand DMCA-AC, what's forbidden is 'creation and trafficking' in anticircumvention tools, with geographic scope limited to the US.
Analysis: While Dmitry created (or created a lot of) Advanced eBook Processor (AEBPR), he created it in Russia, not the US; and he has not personally 'trafficked' in it within the US - there is no DMCA cause of action against Dmitry. It was Elcomsoft that sold AEBR in the US, which -is- actionable under DMCA-AC. Despite employment by Elcomsoft, Dmitry the person is distinct from Elcomsoft the corporation and not criminally liable for the deeds of Elcomsoft.
Conclusion: For the prosecution to be successful, the US Attorney must show either:
a) that Dmitry individually has 'trafficked' in AEBPR, separately from Elcomsoft's sales of AEBR in the US, or
b) that Dmitry as an employee of Elcomsoft has criminal liability for Elcomsoft's actions in 'trafficking' in AEBR.
I don't see how either a) or b) can be proven, as there are no signs that Dmitry has personally distributed AEBR in the US, and no signs that Dmitry is an owner or officer of Elcomsoft -- just an ordinary employee. (If I were Dmitry's boss, or an Elcomsoft owner, I wouldn't be hanging around the US, though.)
If the above is factually correct, then the prosecution's only hope is to find relevant US law, precedent, or theories under which an ordinary employee of a corporation can be held to have criminal liability for the actions of the corporation. More specifically, the precedent or theory would have to pertain to the situation in which both the corporation and the employee are foreign nationals.
If there is no such law, precedent, or theory, the case ultimately fails, and therefore the US Attorney would likely decline to indict.
If the DOJ is looking for a way to make this case go away, either to avoid embarrassment or to avoid taking to trial a case with the potential to nullify DMCA-AC, this would do it for them.
In any event, there may not be any DMCA-AC test case here -- the charge may be flawed, and if so it should not have been brought in the first place, and will be dismissed.
Actual lawyers please comment?
It is Irish. That's the point. As far as I can tell, there are six different types of beer:
Stout, e.g. Guinness
Real Ale, e.g. JHB from Oakham
Brown Ale, e.g. Newcastle (Nukie) Brown
Bitter, e.g. Victoria Bitter (VB), Fiji Bitter
Lager, e.g. Heineken, Steinlager.
Sugar water that the cat slept in, e.g. Budweiser, Tooheys, Fosters.
Ah, mais oui! J'ai envie de lecher la chatte de ta mere encore ce soir! Elle goute la meme qu'un filet de saumon atlantique, mais coute beaucoup moins cher!
Salaud.
Or Russian (read "Red") programmer (read "Code") and we've got "Code Red"!!
Yah, stupid, I know...
OJ goes free and Skylarov goes to jail. How ironic can our Justice system get? And yet Bush pushes for more death penalties in Texas.
eTrade SUCKS
Just ask Terrence McGuckin of 2600 magazine who was arrested last year after protesting at the Republican convention; hardened terrorist that he no doubt was, he was bailed for a mere $100,000. It wasn't returned after he was cleared of all charges, and only after two appeals did the judge decide to return it, minus $750 admin costs. If it hasn't sunk in, this was somebody who had been declared innocent.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Just because one of their most well-known companies is named after Cocaine! They say they took that out of the formula though (in 1903 or thereabouts was it?)
Don't some states place a ~10% "adminstrative" fee on all bail transactions. So no matter what he still pays ~5,000 "penality" for speaking his mind. Where is the "free" speech at anyway.
No kidding. If I were arrested in a foreign country, and I just got released on bail, I wouldn't be interested in a party. I'd be interested in seeing my family and in hiring some expensive lawyers.
> Elle goute la meme qu'un filet de saumon atlantique, mais coute beaucoup moins cher!
Elle a le meme gout qu'un filet de saumon, mais atlantique, mais coute beaucoup moins cher!
Btw, jussieu is a cool place if you like to sniff asbestos.
Cheers,
--fred
> Elle a le meme gout qu'un filet de saumon, mais atlantique, mais coute beaucoup moins cher!
Elle a le meme gout qu'un filet de saumon atlantique, mais coute beaucoup moins cher!
(Mozilla copy/paste sucks)
Cheers,
--fred
I almost didn't go to this hearing. I thought to myself, "What's the point? The deck is stacked against me, the media will spin its own story regardless of the facts or what the EFF has to say, and we'll all be ignored, anyway." At the last minute, I decided that I had to go. I didn't want to, I had to. Though mine may be the proverbial voice in the wilderness, as an ethical software engineer of almost 25 years, I couldn't let this transgression against everything I hold dear go unanswered.
I dressed up in uncharacteristically formal attire, in the event I was asked for an on-camera interview, and drove to downtown San Jose, arriving at about 09:45, and walked to the "Snake" at the end of Caesar de Chavez Park. There were about two dozen people there, most of them carrying hand-made pickets, including a former colleague, who coincidentally also happens to be a Russian named Dmitriy. Also milling through the group were a few media representatives (I saw units from KGO, KPIX, and TechTV).
I didn't see any obvious representatives from the EFF there (though I was asked several times if I myself was a representative). Things seemed a shade disorganized to me. The march toward the Federal building one block away was supposed to start at 10:00. By 10:10, no one was moving, so I walked down myself to make sure I got a seat in the courtroom for the bail hearing which was to take place at 11:00.
I arrived at the Federal courthouse, and made my way through the security gauntlet. (You remember that scene in The Matrix where Keanu Reeves shows up in the lobby with all those neatly-dressed security guards? It was a lot like that. Seven Marshalls stood nearby as they X-rayed my mini-MagLite three times.) Finally convinced I was harmless, I went up to the fourth floor to Judge Infante's courtroom and waited to enter.
There, I met some more reporters from TechTV and the LA Times. Again, I was asked if I was from the EFF.
"No, I'm a software engineer," I said.
"Oh, an actual real person!", said one of the reporters. I got asked why I was there, and tried to explain my concerns. I don't know how well I succeeded.
While waiting, the rest of the protest group arrived at the front of the Federal building. We could see them from the windows of the waiting area. Not too long after, the corridor began to fill up with spectators awaiting admittance to the courtroom.
I managed to buttonhole the LA Times reporter, and tried again to explain the issues as I saw them. I related this case to the DVD CCA debacle, which the EFF is still fighting on both coasts. I felt I was actually beginning to help him understand, when our conversation was cut short when the courtroom doors opened and we were allowed in.
After inquiring with the Marshall what the rules were (laptops okay, cellphones bad), I pulled out my laptop and started making a few notes. While sitting there, I picked up a fragment of a conversation between the Marshall and a spectator who walked in.
"Hey, aren't you on the wrong floor?" asked the Marshall.
"Yeah, but this looked really interesting," said the gentleman.
I didn't get his name, but it turned out that he's a bankruptcy lawyer who was also a computer programmer back in 1963. He saw the hearing listed on the court calendar, and stopped by to watch. We chatted a bit about recording devices and court stenography methods.
At 10:55, Dmitry entered the courtroom with another man, Juan Valencia Rowa (sp?), who was under indictment for a drug and parole violation. Both were handcuffed, dressed in freeway-cone-orange scrubs. By the time court was in session at 11:00 sharp, the spectators' gallery was filled.
Judge Infante banged court into session. It was immediately apparent that this man worked strictly by the book. He was formal and precise, almost to the point of stuffiness. The first case called was Dmitry's. Counsels for the defense and prosecution introduced themselves, and Judge Infante read the summary of the government's criminal charges aloud to Dmitry. Standing next to Dmitry was a Russian translator (identity unknown).
Infante then asked for motions from counsels concerning bail. The government prosecutor stated that they considered Sklyarov a flight risk, since he is a Russian national and has nothing tying him to this area. Nevertheless, a deal had apparently been worked out whereby the government was willing to allow him go free, provided the following conditions were met:
Defense counsel, in support of this, presented character references from Dmitry's professors in Russia, as well as a letter from the Russian Consul. The Judge accepted this arrangement on its face, and ordered exactly those conditions be imposed on Dmitry for his release.
The Judge expressed a concern that the US Department of Immigration might present complications. Dmitry is here on a travel visa. When that visa expires, Dmitry could theoretically be arrested again for violating immigration laws. Judge Infante inquired if Immigration was okay with Dmitry's extended stay. Defense counsel replied that arrangements were not yet finalized, but were underway.
Defense counsel then announced that a custodian for Dmitry was available immediately. Sergei Osokine of Cupertino then stepped forward and introduced himself to the court. Judge Infante informed Osokine that he was vouching for Sklyarov's promise to appear, that he was to inform the court immediately if he became aware of Sklyarov's flight or intent to fly, and could himself become liable for the bail sum should Sklyarov disappear. Osokine indicated he understood and agreed to all this.
Defense counsel then announced that the bail sum was also available immediately, in cash, paid by his employer. Dmitry was then uncuffed, and brought to the center of the courtroom to sign the papers indicating the conditions of his release. The date was also set for the preliminary hearing: 09:00, 23 August 2001. Having forgotten to do so earlier, the Judge then informed Dmitry of the maximum penalty for his alleged crime: $500,000.00 and five years in prison. Once everything was signed, Judge Infante ordered Dmitry's release upon payment of bail to the court clerk, and moved on to the next case. The spectators' gallery emptied almost immediately. The entire process took about twenty minutes.
Outside, an actual representative of the EFF :-) stood before a camera claiming victory in this round of the dispute. Defense counsel, in a different interview, also said he was pleased with Dmitry's release, but that there was still a long way to go before a final resolution.
I stood around with Dan Kaminsky and helped answer questions from a reporter from Reuters wire service. Dan and I can get a bit animated about these issues, and I fear we ranted a bit. Hopefully the reporter wasn't put off by it.
What I did find off-putting were the chants that suddenly broke out from the picketers (who had moved to the other side of the courthouse). "What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! Hey-hey, ho-ho, DMCA's got to go," etc. I know I have absolutely no practical experience in social agitation for political change, so please accept it as my woefully uneducated personal opinion that I see this sort of thing as infantile. It is not effective or witty, it is lame. It makes you look like brainless, uncreative drones on television, and people will tune you right out. Please think of something different.
After the Reuters reporter left, we answered a few more questions from the reporter from WiReD News, then I left for an appointment at 13:00. On the way to my car, I bumped into Brad Templeton, president of the EFF, who hinted that you may expect to see some new fundraising events in the not-too-distant future.
Why do I give a damn about this? When I first touched a computer at age 12, I saw it as the ultimate tool of creative expression. Theoretically, there was nothing you couldn't do with these machines, no idea that could not be expressed in a myriad of ways. In that instant, I immediately knew that this was what I would be doing for the rest of my life. Not everyone gets the chance to spend their life doing what they love, and I value very highly my good fortune of my vocation also being my dearest hobby.
One of the reasons I've gotten nice jobs in the Valley is because I'm fairly good at what I do. Apart from my enthusiasm, one of the primary ways I got so good was by taking apart things other people did, seeing how they worked, and using those discoveries to build new ideas. I even described my discoveries to others, in the hopes they would get new ideas, too.
In other words, I built much of my professional career doing exactly what Dmitry Sklyarov did.
When the Judge read the charges to Dmitry -- "trafficking in a device to circumvent a technological measure that protects a copyright" -- I nearly became nauseous. There is not so much separating me from Dmitry. I have often thought about -- and perhas will one day -- writing a display hack that takes whatever DVD is in your drive, wraps the movie imagery on to an OpenGL sphere, and bounces it around the screen ("Boing 2001", if you will). To do that, I would have to use the DeCSS code fragment published by Jon Johansen. And doing so would make me a "criminal," a threat to the State and public safety, just like Dmitry.
In a brief flash, I saw myself up there, humiliated, in a hostile place where no one knows me, no one understands what I do -- nor do they care -- answering terrifyingly punitive criminal charges for doing nothing more than what I have loved doing all my life.
I am Dmitry Sklyarov. What the hell am I supposed to do now?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
At least in California, it is legal to make a product that is explicitly designed to maim and/or kill someone, but it is not legal to make a product that will defeat copy protection.
And, for all you conspiracy theorists, notice that it's illegal to own the kind of firepower that can hurt a large corporation (say, a tank or a nuclear bomb).
...please read this to the very end, and give this dude a 5.
Get more pictures from the ralley here!
-- SobiOne
As I understand it, it was Sklyarov's company, not Sklyarov himself, which marketed and sold the product in the U.S. Now, unless Sklyarov is a member of the board of directors, it is not usual, even in the U.S., to prosecute employees for the actions of their employer.
It is similarly not illegal (even by DCMA standards) to produce, sell, or otherwise distribute copy protection schemes outside the U.S. Hawking his wares in Russia does not make him a criminal in the U.S.
It is my understanding that Sklyarov was arrested not because he discussed the weaknesses of Adobe's copy protection schemes, but because he was selling his product at the trade show where he was arrested. If this is the case then he is clearly in violation of U.S. law and the FBI is well within its jurisdiction to detain, arrest and prosecute him.
Whether the laws are just is a separate issue, one which it is up to the courts, not the FBI, to sort out. The FBI did what it was required to do.
Anyone care to correct my understanding?
>> She just didn't get it and even said that Disney should get perpetual copyright protection.
r andchildren. However, if Shakespeare's works were still covered under death plus 315 year copyrights, surely a media conglomerate would be collecting the royalties now, not the putatively deserving 10th generation heirs.
My favorite example of the absurdity of perpetual copyright is the song "Happy Birthday to You", composed by Kentucky schoolteacher Mildred Hill in 1859. Her sister Patty wrote lyrics and first published it as "Good Morning to All" in "Song Stories of the Kindergarten" in 1893. Mildred died penniless in 1916.
In 1924, Robert H. Coleman republished the song without permission, adding a second "Happy Birthday to You" verse. The surviving Hill sisters sued and the song was finally copyrighted in 1935.
Of course, the sisters aren't collecting royalties any longer. The copyright is now owned by AOL/Time Warner, and still garnerting about $2 million in royalties each year as of about 5 years ago (which is why television programs usually resort to "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow" instead). If Disney continues to get copyright extension bills passed every 20 years, the copyright on this simple 19th century folksong will never expire.
The Constitution originally intended "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries". But death plus 95 years? To what end, encouraging Mildred Hill to compose more songs?
>> I knew that she had totally lost it when I suggested that the heirs of William Shakespear might complain and demand royalties for plays written by the great bard. She thought it was a good idea and was trying to decide how we should go about paying those royalties...
Good job getting your mother to think about the logistics of awarding Shakespeare's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-g
No, if you tried to use Happy Birthday in a commercial enterprise like a restaurant, you'd see it's all too true.
Even nonprofit organizations get bitten. In 1996, the Wall Street Journal ran an article by Lisa Bannon entitled ASCAP Cautions the Girl Scouts: Don't Sing 'God Bless America'. Since we wouldn't want to violate the Wall Street Journal's copyright, here's a fair use excerpt: