Speed of execution is not and should not be the overriding criterea when choosing a language. If a language can save you hundreds of man hours of developement, thousands of man hours in maintenance and debugging then it's well worth giving up the speed of execution. Having said all that: The speed problems in java have to do with the GUI. If you write gui-less business objects the speed is not THAT much slower then your typical C++ app.
IMHO what sun really needs to do is to recommit to the original WORA premise. They seem to have abandoned java on the client end (browser) and are pushing it heavy on the server end. WORA is a moot point on the server. If you have control over the server then you can program in anything that will get the job done.
Java is a great language for writing distributed apps but distributed apps must include the client, after all thats where the rubber hits the road. I urge sun to recommit to the client end.
I wish I had the link handy but I remember reading in ZDNET (of all places) that a memo was leaked out outlining this exact strategy by MS. MS wanted to create the "appearance of grass roots support" by paying people to post pro MS posts on BBS systems. I think the term they used was "astroturf". Look into it.
I agree. A long time ago there was a document floating in the internet called "the users guide to the internet" I forget who wrote it but I remember the last sentence. "Anarchy means putting up shit you hate". Let the trolls troll. Let the hatemongers spew hate, let everyone have their say. In the end it will all work out.
How can somebody who graduated from UCLA with a double major in physics and computer science not be able to install Linux? I don't have a degree from anywhere and can install redhat in under an hour. The educational system in this country must be going downhill fast. The schools should get back to teaching the love of learning. Instead it's brightest and best students (like CmdData) can't be bothered to learn something new because "it's too complicated".
Makes you wonder what kind of stupid idiot PHB would enter into any kind of agreement with MS. HAve they ever signed a contract with somebody that they didn't try to screw one way or another? I guess some people never learn.
Most people couldn't install a monitor let alone an operating system. Having installed countless win9X, NT, and Linux systems I would say that linux is easier to install then NT and harder then win9X.
Most people would rather buy a new pc then to install or upgrade their software.
Thats about on par with the US system. When you add up all the federal, state, local, sales, property taxes you are probably being taxed at somewhere over 50%. Add to that all the stuff you are being required by govt to purchase (insurance etc), user fees, road tolls and you are probably running close to 60%
"Anybody at Borland interested in recycling this wonderful workhorse? Anybody in Borland have any clue at all?" Maybe they do. Didn't they just re-release turbo c++? I would love to have some of my bygone dos programs re-released or better yet GPL'ed so that they could be updated. I could trade lotus megellan for the windows explorer any day!.
"Most stuff is "truck-ripened" (including organically grown foodstuffs) because it takes 2-3 weeks just to ship goods everywhere."
Actually since organic farms tend to be smaller they also tend to be more "local". In my area most of the organic food sold comes from farmers just outside the town and almost all of it comes from in-state. Most of the non-organic vegetables come from california, florida, mexico etc.
The fruits and vegetables in the US are engineered and bred for only one trait. Ability to withstand shipment from vast distances. They are picked green and ripen in a dark and cold truck. Compared with the fresh ripened on the vine vegetables one is able to get in the rest of world they taste like cardboard and probably have the same nutritional value. Almost all the meats are injected with some awful thing or another and they too taste like recycled rubber more often then not. I try and buy organic whenever I can, thank god for the organic farmers.
Personally nothing beats Middle eastern countries for freshest best tasting food in the world. Long live the falafel!.
Honestly I don't know how you m$ employees sleep at night you must have no concience.
"While we will eventually support a standard, the IETF is having problems coming up with final draft."
Crap why do you lie? You know as well as I do that M$ has no intention of supporting the standard. You will give some lame excuse like you did with your HTML standard. Why can't you ship W2K which supports the current standards and then implement the new standards when they get approved. Read the haloween docs it is the stated intent of m$ to break standards.
RE JAVA.
It does not matter if Java is a language or platform you dolt!. You signed a contract and then violated it with malicious intent. M$ INTENDED to break java. m$ signed a contract they knew they were going to break. Read the DOJ transcripts, real the depositions before you go sprouting off on lame excuses.
M$ lies, m$ cheats, m$ steals. You my friend are an instrument of unethical people. Clean up your karma before it's too late.
Re:Does Linus Deserves Secret Service Protection?
on
Linus Puts Shields Up
·
· Score: 1
I was waiting for this piece of FUD to appear. The halloween docs mentioned this. I have often wondered weather this was a thinly veiled death threat to Linus. As for Linux it will most likely survive Linus and the rest of us.
I agree mostly. Javascript needs to get much better. There needs to be some kind of mechanism for accesing the back end databases. There needs to be a little better control on the look and feel and positioning. Oh yea it's got to be browser independent (that's the killer!).
The Mozilla thing sounds awsome I hope they pull it off.
It's their program and they can license it any way they want. I tend to give away the stupid perl progs I write because the perl community has given me so much in free support and code. The VB progs I write I never give away though. Mainly because VB cost me plenty (especially when you add all those activeX controls I bought). M$ also charges me for help.
P.S If you can't install Linux you really have no right to complain about other peoples coding practices. For me it usually takes about a half hour to install linux. It's actually easier to install then NT.
"And how accurate were those cubit-based measurements?"
God wrote the bible. The bible is Gods words. Those measurements were as accurate as God could measure them and as accurate as God could describe them. You can not go around saying one portion of the bible is not accurate without calling the accuracy of the entire thing into question. God is omnipotent he know what he was doing when he wrote that.
Man if M$ is so powerful that they can cause a worldwide caos and a global collapse of economies then they have no business claiming they don't have a monopoly. If Bill G. had that much power then I'd be first one in line to put a bullet in his head.
"Yes, they SHOULD have the right to sell anything they like, at whatever price they like, and if they want to include a web browser why shouldn't they? "
Do you remember a while ago when the DOJ acting on the complaint of several US chip manufacturers took Japanese chipmanufacturers to court over "dumping"? In that case the japanese were found guilty of selling their chips below cost to gain market share and were fined and ordered to charge a fair market value for their products. So you are wrong when you say they can charge whatevet they want. IE took a TON of money to make, market, package, support, debug etc. It did not cost M$ nothing.
"if the precedent is established that the government has a role in adjudicating appropriate features and bundling, we all lose. I cannot think of any group less well equipped to evaluate business decisions than a government."
I hear this statement and others like it frequently but I just don't understand what it means. Are you saying that not one person who works for the united states government is capable of making decisions about bundling? Are you saying that the government agencies are incapable of finding outside consultants who are knowledgable about the computer business? Or perhaps you are saying that the software industry alone should be left unregulated while every other conceivable industry is regulated in one way or another by the U.S Govenment. Why is it that the Government knows enough to regulate aircraft safety, food safety, deadly pathogens, how to make televisions, how to conduct international trade, the proper way to handle nuclear waste, what the cable diameter of a given elevator should etc. but it is INCAPABLE of understanding the software industry? This may come as a shock to you but the government consists of people. All kinds of people including very bright engineers, lawyers, programmers, rocket scientists etc. Surely one of those people knows something or knows enough to hire an outside consultant who knows something. Lets face it the software industry has had an easy ride so far and like it or not they are going te be regulated just like every other industry.
You are wrong on two points. 1) W2K is NOT beta. M$ has said repeatedly that W2K is in final release candidate stage. They said they use it in their own network. They said it was bug free and stable. They are selling it now! For you or them to claim that it's beta is an out and out lie.
2) MS IS evil. There are ethical ways to run a company and non ethical ways. MS has at every turn chosen the unethical way to best the competition. They have lied, cheated, stolen, reneged on contracts etc etc. There are plenty of corporations who are able to do business without resorting to unethical practices and M$ is NOT one of them. Just look at the top brass. Every single on of them commited perjury in the trial. These people wrote email to each other talking about "knifing the baby" and "stabbing them in the back" lets face it these are slimy evil people running a slimy evil company.
Slashdot Mirror
I use a email service called msgto.com check them out. It an awsome way to avoid ALL SPAM from your life.
IMHO what sun really needs to do is to recommit to the original WORA premise. They seem to have abandoned java on the client end (browser) and are pushing it heavy on the server end. WORA is a moot point on the server. If you have control over the server then you can program in anything that will get the job done.
Java is a great language for writing distributed apps but distributed apps must include the client, after all thats where the rubber hits the road. I urge sun to recommit to the client end.
I wish I had the link handy but I remember reading in ZDNET (of all places) that a memo was leaked out outlining this exact strategy by MS. MS wanted to create the "appearance of grass roots support" by paying people to post pro MS posts on BBS systems. I think the term they used was "astroturf". Look into it.
I agree. A long time ago there was a document floating in the internet called "the users guide to the internet" I forget who wrote it but I remember the last sentence.
"Anarchy means putting up shit you hate". Let the trolls troll. Let the hatemongers spew hate, let everyone have their say. In the end it will all work out.
How can somebody who graduated from UCLA with a double major in physics and computer science not be able to install Linux? I don't have a degree from anywhere and can install redhat in under an hour. The educational system in this country must be going downhill fast.
The schools should get back to teaching the love of learning. Instead it's brightest and best students (like CmdData) can't be bothered to learn something new because "it's too complicated".
HAve they ever signed a contract with somebody that they didn't try to screw one way or another?
I guess some people never learn.
Most people couldn't install a monitor let alone an operating system. Having installed countless win9X, NT, and Linux systems I would say that linux is easier to install then NT and harder then win9X.
Most people would rather buy a new pc then to install or upgrade their software.
Thats about on par with the US system. When you add up all the federal, state, local, sales, property taxes you are probably being taxed at somewhere over 50%. Add to that all the stuff you are being required by govt to purchase (insurance etc), user fees, road tolls and you are probably running close to 60%
"Anybody at Borland interested in recycling this wonderful workhorse? Anybody in Borland have any clue at all?" Maybe they do. Didn't they just re-release turbo c++? I would love to have some of my bygone dos programs re-released or better yet GPL'ed so that they could be updated. I could trade lotus megellan for the windows explorer any day!.
"Most stuff is "truck-ripened" (including organically grown foodstuffs) because it takes 2-3 weeks just to ship goods everywhere."
Actually since organic farms tend to be smaller they also tend to be more "local". In my area most of the organic food sold comes from farmers just outside the town and almost all of it comes from in-state. Most of the non-organic vegetables come from california, florida, mexico etc.
The fruits and vegetables in the US are engineered and bred for only one trait. Ability to withstand shipment from vast distances. They are picked green and ripen in a dark and cold truck. Compared with the fresh ripened on the vine vegetables one is able to get in the rest of world they taste like cardboard and probably have the same nutritional value. Almost all the meats are injected with some awful thing or another and they too taste like recycled rubber more often then not. I try and buy organic whenever I can, thank god for the organic farmers.
Personally nothing beats Middle eastern countries for freshest best tasting food in the world. Long live the falafel!.
Honestly I don't know how you m$ employees sleep at night you must have no concience.
"While we will eventually support a standard, the IETF is having problems coming up with final draft."
Crap why do you lie? You know as well as I do that M$ has no intention of supporting the standard. You will give some lame excuse like you did with your HTML standard. Why can't you ship W2K which supports the current standards and then implement the new standards when they get approved. Read the haloween docs it is the stated intent of m$ to break standards.
RE JAVA.
It does not matter if Java is a language or platform you dolt!. You signed a contract and then violated it with malicious intent. M$ INTENDED to break java. m$ signed a contract they knew they were going to break. Read the DOJ transcripts, real the depositions before you go sprouting off on lame excuses.
M$ lies, m$ cheats, m$ steals. You my friend are an instrument of unethical people. Clean up your karma before it's too late.
I was waiting for this piece of FUD to appear. The halloween docs mentioned this. I have often wondered weather this was a thinly veiled death threat to Linus. As for Linux it will most likely survive Linus and the rest of us.
I agree mostly. Javascript needs to get much better. There needs to be some kind of mechanism for accesing the back end databases. There needs to be a little better control on the look and feel and positioning. Oh yea it's got to be browser independent (that's the killer!).
The Mozilla thing sounds awsome I hope they pull it off.
Free speach and press are a bitch aren't they.
Free speach ad press are a bitch aren't they.
Their mistake was to sign a contract with M$. M$ has screwed everybody else they signed a contract with too.
It's their program and they can license it any way they want. I tend to give away the stupid perl progs I write because the perl community has given me so much in free support and code. The VB progs I write I never give away though. Mainly because VB cost me plenty (especially when you add all those activeX controls I bought). M$ also charges me for help.
P.S If you can't install Linux you really have no right to complain about other peoples coding practices. For me it usually takes about a half hour to install linux. It's actually easier to install then NT.
"And how accurate were those cubit-based measurements?"
God wrote the bible. The bible is Gods words. Those measurements were as accurate as God could measure them and as accurate as God could describe them. You can not go around saying one portion of the bible is not accurate without calling the accuracy of the entire thing into question. God is omnipotent he know what he was doing when he wrote that.
Man if M$ is so powerful that they can cause a worldwide caos and a global collapse of economies then they have no business claiming they don't have a monopoly. If Bill G. had that much power then I'd be first one in line to put a bullet in his head.
Hey if they broke the law they should be punished. Just like Kevin Mitnick. M$ is not above the law.
"I would much rather have a company as a "big brother" than the government."
This kind of thinking really gives me the creeps. Really scary.
"Yes, they SHOULD have the right to sell anything they like, at whatever price they like, and if they want to include a web browser why shouldn't they? "
Do you remember a while ago when the DOJ acting on the complaint of several US chip manufacturers took Japanese chipmanufacturers to court over "dumping"? In that case the japanese were found guilty of selling their chips below cost to gain market share and were fined and ordered to charge a fair market value for their products. So you are wrong when you say they can charge whatevet they want. IE took a TON of money to make, market, package, support, debug etc. It did not cost M$ nothing.
"if the precedent is established that the government has a role in adjudicating appropriate features and bundling, we all lose. I cannot think of any group less well equipped to evaluate business decisions than a government."
I hear this statement and others like it frequently but I just don't understand what it means. Are you saying that not one person who works for the united states government is capable of making decisions about bundling? Are you saying that the government agencies are incapable of finding outside consultants who are knowledgable about the computer business? Or perhaps you are saying that the software industry alone should be left unregulated while every other conceivable industry is regulated in one way or another by the U.S Govenment. Why is it that the Government knows enough to regulate aircraft safety, food safety, deadly pathogens, how to make televisions, how to conduct international trade, the proper way to handle nuclear waste, what the cable diameter of a given elevator should etc. but it is INCAPABLE of understanding the software industry? This may come as a shock to you but the government consists of people. All kinds of people including very bright engineers, lawyers, programmers, rocket scientists etc. Surely one of those people knows something or knows enough to hire an outside consultant who knows something. Lets face it the software industry has had an easy ride so far and like it or not they are going te be regulated just like every other industry.
You are wrong on two points.
1) W2K is NOT beta. M$ has said repeatedly that W2K is in final release candidate stage. They said they use it in their own network. They said it was bug free and stable. They are selling it now! For you or them to claim that it's beta is an out and out lie.
2) MS IS evil. There are ethical ways to run a company and non ethical ways. MS has at every turn chosen the unethical way to best the competition. They have lied, cheated, stolen, reneged on contracts etc etc. There are plenty of corporations who are able to do business without resorting to unethical practices and M$ is NOT one of them. Just look at the top brass. Every single on of them commited perjury in the trial. These people wrote email to each other talking about "knifing the baby" and "stabbing them in the back" lets face it these are slimy evil people running a slimy evil company.