"The word Creator does not imply divinty. At least, not from an objective point of view. "
No matter. I was not created by the same entity that created enron. enron was created by lawyers I was not. You refuse to accept that human beings are different then corporations. I think that this fact ought to be obvious to most 12 year olds why isn't it obvious to you.
"You know, I just re-read your first post and you're just confused. Enron certainly wasn't immortal."
Was? Enron still exists. It will continue to exist as long as the lawyers who created it do not dispell it. Corporations have no natural life span. They can live forever. That's why they are immortal.
As for the rest well it's apparent that you do not believe in a soul and that's fine. If you don't believe in one then I'll ask you to think about what makes you different then a rock. Surely there must be some thing you recognize in a living being versus a non living object. Whatever that thing is the Corporations lack it. They are not alive.
Corporations are not human beings. They are legal entities brought into being by lawyers like a magician of legend summoned demon. And like a summoned demon they are soul-less and immortal. Also like a demon the corporation serves the interest of those that summoned it into being. Also like a demon some people serve the corporation. Finally also like a demon a corporation can be dispelled by those that summoned it.
That works fine for minerals but not for animals and plants. To capitalists animals have no worth. SOme animals have worth if you kill them and sell them but most animals have no worth even if you kill them. Gold maybe worth more when it gets scarce but that's not the case for fish, plants, birds etc.
It all depends on your moral point of view. Most capitalists don't think animals and plants have any value at all unless you can eat them or use them in some way. Other people actually think living things have inherent value.
"The two parties involved in the Senate are the representatives and the represented, not the Republicans and the Democrats. The only ones who benefit from seeing everything in terms of "Republicans" and "Democrats" are (guess who!) the Republican and the Democrats."
I read this sentence three times and it still does not make any sense. The senate is composed of republicans and democrats right? The last I checked that's the way it was.
" But there's a problem there: if they're that gutless they don't deserve that support, and if the Republicans are that vicious then they're not being civil servants"
Right on both accounts.
"If they're as far gone as that they're no longer American Government, they're some kind of banana republic junta."
right again.
"But if they are really vicious- for instance, let's imagine they are conducting political assasinations (Wellstone), that would be vicious- what possible benefit would there be for Democrats to become equally vicious?"
I don't know if wellstone was assassinated (why not?) but I do know that an american citizen was assassinated by the CIA in yemen. It's not legal for the CIA to assassinate americans citizens if the president tells them to. There is no constitution anymore.
"This WHOLE situation is completely un-American and we were warned about it back in the days the Constitution was written."
" You contradict yourself. The quotation just says "Creator", not "divine creator""
Why is that a contradiction. God created me and gave me some right, lawyers created exxon and gave it some rights. That was my point.
And yes the declaration is not the constitution but the constitution and the bill of rights were written with human beings in mind. Maybe you think that the founding fathers believed that all beings with or without souls and mortal and immortal all deserve the same rights but I don't.
In the time of Adam Smith there was zero concern for the ecological toll of commerce. Adam Smith presumed that there were an infinate number of trees, infinate amount of fuel, and an inexhaustable supply of plants, animals and minerals. It never even occured to him that the resources of the planet could be strained.
As a consequence the free marketeers simply ignore the impact of commerce on the ecology and pretend that everything is just fine.
I don't blame smith for not exploring this aspect of his theories because everybody at that time was ignorant of them. People that came after him however are another story.
Has a carrier ever been sunk? I have never heard of one being sunk. I would seriously doubt a couple torpedoes could sink a carrier. Besides which carriers move around in groups with submarines, tankers and all kinds of support vehicles. You'd have to make all of them go fast.
A veteran, war hero, man of immense integrity, somebody who is never afraid to say what he actually thinks and he is not a "real" republican. What does that say about "real" republicans?
It's called strategy and tactics. Right now democrats are on the ropes and the republicans are beating them with tire irons. In order to survive you have to do anything and everything that you can. Sometimes it means banding together as group, sometimes it means forming temporary alliances with the enemy, and sometimes it means pitting some members of the enemy against each other.
Right now the republicans are all over the tv saying how democrats hate america, democrats support terrorism, democrats are rooting for osama bin laden and worse. At the same time the republicans are resdistricting, busting unions, cutting off funding for democratic states and everything else in their power to once and for all kill the democratic party. Once that is done they will rule for decades to come.
I have no faith in the ability of the democratic party to fight them off. It will die because the republicans are ruthless and the democrats are wimps. Until democrats become as vicious as republicans they will continue to suffer and die.
Well no matter what you think I don't actually think you believe that a corporation is the exact same thing as a human. If they are not the same they they should not be treated the same. Pretty simple no?
Look at it this way.
In the constitution it uses the phrase "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights". Now I don't know about you but I was not created by lawyers. Humans have certain rights because they have a divine creator. Corporations have rights that are given to them by the lawyers who created them and the lawyers that made their creation possible. Again pretty simple no?
Finally. I am a mortal and I have a soul. A corporation is immortal and soul-less. If you look at the history of humans you will see many legends and religious texts about soul-less immortal beings. For example in revelations there is a soul-less immortal being with seven heads and ten horns. Perhaps they were talking about a corporation with seven headquarters and ten divisions.
"That doesn't mean the product is "better" from a technical, moral, or whatever other point of view you want, except from the point of view that it meets the desires of consumers."
But the article claimed exactly that. The article claimed that it was the best because it was the most popular.
Well I like to think that I don't act like your typical american. Since I have traveled quite a bit and have lived in other countries and many states I tend not to have a distinct accent. In fact many people in the US think I have an accent but they just can't seem to place it. So far I have had no problems.
"As usual, watch your mouth when travelling abroad as your government's opinions may very well be extremely unpopular where you're going, even if you're not at war with us."
When I travel abroad I make sure to carry a couple of canadian flags with me. I pretend to be a Canadian. I know it's lame but it's better then trying to explain the insanity of our president, the pure evilness that is our defense dept, and the madness that passes for our foreign policy. Hanging out here in slashdot also probably lets you know that it's not any better inside the country right now.
Yes I am ashamed to be an american.
Re:The proliferation of video cameras.
on
SOHO Strikes Back
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" But I also think, based on the evidence presented, that the bright spot over Mexico a decade ago was Venus. Refusing to consider that some UFO incidents have reasonable explanations makes you no more credible than those who refuse to consider that any incidents may have something to do with extraterrestrial life."
The motion was not "apparent" and this is very easy to test by measuring the motion on multiple video footage. For example when the object went behind a cloud all the recorders recorded the same thing, when the object came back out into view all the cameras recorded the same thing.
I am open to any "reasonable" explanation but venus is not a reasonable explanation. Venus does not move, venus does not disappear suddenly after appearing suddenly.
Like I said there have been many incidents all over the world that have been videotaped. Most of them by people who have no means of faking videotapes (which is very hard to do and require lots of money) not all of them are venus, not all of them are swamp gas, and no matter how hard they try the skeptics can not explain all of them. Which leaves the question. What are they?
Presuming of course that they want you there. Maybe they look on the americans the way we look on the mexicans.
Re:The proliferation of video cameras.
on
SOHO Strikes Back
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· Score: 1
The skeptics page you pointed out was just stupid. It made no attempt to discuss the video tape or the eye witnesses. Besides the video tapes there was also lots of still footage. Most of the of the UFO debunkers pretty much take the same approach and if I may paraphrase they say either "it could have been venus so therefore it was venus" or "it could have been faked so therefore it was faked". Both of those are logical fallacies.
As for the event itself I saw the videos (more then one) and the object was definately moving in a back and forth manner. I minored in astronomy and have spent many a night staring at the sky with both the naked eye and telescopes of varying sizes and have never seen any planet move in that fashion. Whatever that thing was it was not venus.
Of course the that was but one event that was videotaped. There must be hundreds of hours of videotapes of UFOs are you seriously claiming that all of them were venus? Surely not. For example does this look like venus?
BTW in Mexico UFO events are actually reported on TV. In the US that almost never happens. Perhaps that's why there was no panic in the streets. Although I still don't see how panic in the streets is somehow relevant.
"Astronomers unable to indentify a very bright stationary object that suddenly appeared in the sky would not hestitate to report it."
It was clearnly not an astronomical event so there was no need to investigate it as if it was. Any astronomer who attempted to claim that this was some sort a new stellar phenomena would have been laughed out of the profession and rightfully so. A moving object which only lasts for a few minutes and disappears? What kind of a star is that? Oh I know it's venus. Venus frequently appears during daylight, moves around a bit, and then disappears again.
Re:The proliferation of video cameras.
on
SOHO Strikes Back
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· Score: 1
Just do a search on google for gods sake. DO I have to do everything for you?
Once again are you seriously claiming that there is no videotapes of UFOs?
Simply get one that says "Microsoft Sucks". That way you are covered no matter how many times they change the names on their products.
Re:The proliferation of video cameras.
on
SOHO Strikes Back
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· Score: 2
Look up Mexico City Solar Eclipse UFO on google. There was a pretty spectacular UFO event in Mexico city which was videotaped by lots of people. It was just before a solar eclipse IIRC so lots of people had cameras and video tape machines handy.
There is tons of video tape UFO evidence so I don't understand why you claim there is none.
I said that I don't understand why you shit on open source developers who work for you for free.
"People talk negatively about some [free] software because the software has serious flaws."
Yes and that's what will destroy open source. Only 1% of the people do any real work or pay a few bucks for their gratitute. OTOH the other 99% (like you) feels that it's prefectly appropriate to shit on those 1% of the people calling them fucktards and communists and calling their software shit. As time goes on you and the rest of the ungrateful 99% will keep shouting louder and louder and the 1% will lose even the occational "attaboy" they get now to continue to code. Eventually they will stop coding because nobody wants to work for free for ungrateful shitheads like you.
You, JWZ and the rest of the ungrateful rude and uncivilized bastards will kill open source.
"Shouldn't those people shut up and do it themselves if they don't like Emacs?"
Absolutely they should. I don't like Emacs so I don't use it. You'll neve catch me badmouthing emacs. RMS has done nothing to me or my family that would cause me to critize him. Why would I badmouth somebody who has done nothing wrong to me? Why would you? Why would anybody?
Look at what Slava did with Jedit. I don't know if he wrote Jedit because he didn't like Emacs but today Jedit rivals any editor on the planet including Emacs. I have never heard Slava say anything bad about anybody who worked on Emacs or VI or anything else. He rolled up his sleeves and wrote an awsome editor and other people helped. That's the way open source works. And you know what I have heard people shit on Salava and Jedit. There is no shortage of assholes and I hope to god Slava does not stop because of the assholes.
Looks like they dropped the price. I guess all that competition from free databases is making a big impact on SQL server. Dropping from 12K to 5K is a big deal. I suspect that they will have to drop it some more pretty soon after all interbase, sapdb, postgresql, mysql etc are getting better every day and most of them can already do 90% of what sql server does for free.
Anything that slows down the flow of money to Bill Gates is fine by me.
"We're not going to get a next-generation UI from Joe Engineer, whose idea of innovation is a widget cool enough for Microsoft to steal."
Bullshit. Most innovations come from Joe Engineers.
"The next-generation UI is going to come from UI experts"
Did the windows paradign come from UI experts? No it came from engineers.
"It's going to come from the people who reward me for the knowledge I've already accumulated"
No it's going to come from people who don't give a flying fuck about you and what you know. People who care about you will keep making the same old interfaces because they are afraid you are going to throw a snit fit when their new application does not follow the same keyboard shortcuts as your old application and does not look exactly like your old application. How can somebody create a revolutionary UI if they make it look and act exactly like the old one? They can't.
Nobody make you download and install it. But somebody wrote a program and gave it away for free. Somebody else provided you with a free server where you can download and install it. Instead of saying thanks you choose to shit on them. Nice.
I'll never understand why you choose to shit on people who are working to make a difference in this world. People who volunteer their time and money to provide you with free software. It's true I'll never understand ungrateful fucktards.
Slashdot Mirror
"The word Creator does not imply divinty. At least, not from an objective point of view. "
No matter. I was not created by the same entity that created enron. enron was created by lawyers I was not. You refuse to accept that human beings are different then corporations. I think that this fact ought to be obvious to most 12 year olds why isn't it obvious to you.
"You know, I just re-read your first post and you're just confused. Enron certainly wasn't immortal."
Was? Enron still exists. It will continue to exist as long as the lawyers who created it do not dispell it. Corporations have no natural life span. They can live forever. That's why they are immortal.
As for the rest well it's apparent that you do not believe in a soul and that's fine. If you don't believe in one then I'll ask you to think about what makes you different then a rock. Surely there must be some thing you recognize in a living being versus a non living object. Whatever that thing is the Corporations lack it. They are not alive.
Corporations are not human beings. They are legal entities brought into being by lawyers like a magician of legend summoned demon. And like a summoned demon they are soul-less and immortal. Also like a demon the corporation serves the interest of those that summoned it into being. Also like a demon some people serve the corporation. Finally also like a demon a corporation can be dispelled by those that summoned it.
That works fine for minerals but not for animals and plants. To capitalists animals have no worth. SOme animals have worth if you kill them and sell them but most animals have no worth even if you kill them. Gold maybe worth more when it gets scarce but that's not the case for fish, plants, birds etc.
It all depends on your moral point of view. Most capitalists don't think animals and plants have any value at all unless you can eat them or use them in some way. Other people actually think living things have inherent value.
"The two parties involved in the Senate are the representatives and the represented, not the Republicans and the Democrats. The only ones who benefit from seeing everything in terms of "Republicans" and "Democrats" are (guess who!) the Republican and the Democrats."
I read this sentence three times and it still does not make any sense. The senate is composed of republicans and democrats right? The last I checked that's the way it was.
" But there's a problem there: if they're that gutless they don't deserve that support, and if the Republicans are that vicious then they're not being civil servants"
;)"
Right on both accounts.
"If they're as far gone as that they're no longer American Government, they're some kind of banana republic junta."
right again.
"But if they are really vicious- for instance, let's imagine they are conducting political assasinations (Wellstone), that would be vicious- what possible benefit would there be for Democrats to become equally vicious?"
I don't know if wellstone was assassinated (why not?) but I do know that an american citizen was assassinated by the CIA in yemen. It's not legal for the CIA to assassinate americans citizens if the president tells them to. There is no constitution anymore.
"This WHOLE situation is completely un-American and we were warned about it back in the days the Constitution was written."
right again.
"Are we off-topic yet?
right one more time.
" You contradict yourself. The quotation just says "Creator", not "divine creator""
Why is that a contradiction. God created me and gave me some right, lawyers created exxon and gave it some rights. That was my point.
And yes the declaration is not the constitution but the constitution and the bill of rights were written with human beings in mind. Maybe you think that the founding fathers believed that all beings with or without souls and mortal and immortal all deserve the same rights but I don't.
Consider this.
In the time of Adam Smith there was zero concern for the ecological toll of commerce. Adam Smith presumed that there were an infinate number of trees, infinate amount of fuel, and an inexhaustable supply of plants, animals and minerals. It never even occured to him that the resources of the planet could be strained.
As a consequence the free marketeers simply ignore the impact of commerce on the ecology and pretend that everything is just fine.
I don't blame smith for not exploring this aspect of his theories because everybody at that time was ignorant of them. People that came after him however are another story.
Has a carrier ever been sunk? I have never heard of one being sunk. I would seriously doubt a couple torpedoes could sink a carrier. Besides which carriers move around in groups with submarines, tankers and all kinds of support vehicles. You'd have to make all of them go fast.
"Why use the goverment to quiet those with whom you do not agree?"
Yes a bullet in the head would work much better. The liberals have to get over their fear of firearms and start shooting.
GO figure.
A veteran, war hero, man of immense integrity, somebody who is never afraid to say what he actually thinks and he is not a "real" republican. What does that say about "real" republicans?
It's called strategy and tactics. Right now democrats are on the ropes and the republicans are beating them with tire irons. In order to survive you have to do anything and everything that you can. Sometimes it means banding together as group, sometimes it means forming temporary alliances with the enemy, and sometimes it means pitting some members of the enemy against each other.
Right now the republicans are all over the tv saying how democrats hate america, democrats support terrorism, democrats are rooting for osama bin laden and worse. At the same time the republicans are resdistricting, busting unions, cutting off funding for democratic states and everything else in their power to once and for all kill the democratic party. Once that is done they will rule for decades to come.
I have no faith in the ability of the democratic party to fight them off. It will die because the republicans are ruthless and the democrats are wimps. Until democrats become as vicious as republicans they will continue to suffer and die.
Well no matter what you think I don't actually think you believe that a corporation is the exact same thing as a human. If they are not the same they they should not be treated the same. Pretty simple no?
Look at it this way.
In the constitution it uses the phrase "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights". Now I don't know about you but I was not created by lawyers. Humans have certain rights because they have a divine creator. Corporations have rights that are given to them by the lawyers who created them and the lawyers that made their creation possible. Again pretty simple no?
Finally. I am a mortal and I have a soul. A corporation is immortal and soul-less. If you look at the history of humans you will see many legends and religious texts about soul-less immortal beings. For example in revelations there is a soul-less immortal being with seven heads and ten horns. Perhaps they were talking about a corporation with seven headquarters and ten divisions.
"That doesn't mean the product is "better" from a technical, moral, or whatever other point of view you want, except from the point of view that it meets the desires of consumers."
But the article claimed exactly that. The article claimed that it was the best because it was the most popular.
"As a homeower with monthly mortgage payments, I'm not sure I could make that transition."
You probably could. Other people do. I think the average salary in the US is about 35K and I am sure some of those those people have homes and kids.
Well I like to think that I don't act like your typical american. Since I have traveled quite a bit and have lived in other countries and many states I tend not to have a distinct accent. In fact many people in the US think I have an accent but they just can't seem to place it. So far I have had no problems.
"As usual, watch your mouth when travelling abroad as your government's opinions may very well be extremely unpopular where you're going, even if you're not at war with us."
When I travel abroad I make sure to carry a couple of canadian flags with me. I pretend to be a Canadian. I know it's lame but it's better then trying to explain the insanity of our president, the pure evilness that is our defense dept, and the madness that passes for our foreign policy. Hanging out here in slashdot also probably lets you know that it's not any better inside the country right now.
Yes I am ashamed to be an american.
" But I also think, based on the evidence presented, that the bright spot over Mexico a decade ago was Venus. Refusing to consider that some UFO incidents have reasonable explanations makes you no more credible than those who refuse to consider that any incidents may have something to do with extraterrestrial life."
The motion was not "apparent" and this is very easy to test by measuring the motion on multiple video footage. For example when the object went behind a cloud all the recorders recorded the same thing, when the object came back out into view all the cameras recorded the same thing.
I am open to any "reasonable" explanation but venus is not a reasonable explanation. Venus does not move, venus does not disappear suddenly after appearing suddenly.
Like I said there have been many incidents all over the world that have been videotaped. Most of them by people who have no means of faking videotapes (which is very hard to do and require lots of money) not all of them are venus, not all of them are swamp gas, and no matter how hard they try the skeptics can not explain all of them. Which leaves the question. What are they?
Presuming of course that they want you there. Maybe they look on the americans the way we look on the mexicans.
The skeptics page you pointed out was just stupid. It made no attempt to discuss the video tape or the eye witnesses. Besides the video tapes there was also lots of still footage. Most of the of the UFO debunkers pretty much take the same approach and if I may paraphrase they say either "it could have been venus so therefore it was venus" or "it could have been faked so therefore it was faked". Both of those are logical fallacies.
As for the event itself I saw the videos (more then one) and the object was definately moving in a back and forth manner. I minored in astronomy and have spent many a night staring at the sky with both the naked eye and telescopes of varying sizes and have never seen any planet move in that fashion. Whatever that thing was it was not venus.
Of course the that was but one event that was videotaped. There must be hundreds of hours of videotapes of UFOs are you seriously claiming that all of them were venus? Surely not. For example does this look like venus?
BTW in Mexico UFO events are actually reported on TV. In the US that almost never happens. Perhaps that's why there was no panic in the streets. Although I still don't see how panic in the streets is somehow relevant.
"Astronomers unable to indentify a very bright stationary object that suddenly appeared in the sky would not hestitate to report it."
It was clearnly not an astronomical event so there was no need to investigate it as if it was. Any astronomer who attempted to claim that this was some sort a new stellar phenomena would have been laughed out of the profession and rightfully so. A moving object which only lasts for a few minutes and disappears? What kind of a star is that? Oh I know it's venus. Venus frequently appears during daylight, moves around a bit, and then disappears again.
Just do a search on google for gods sake. DO I have to do everything for you?
Once again are you seriously claiming that there is no videotapes of UFOs?
Simply get one that says "Microsoft Sucks". That way you are covered no matter how many times they change the names on their products.
Look up Mexico City Solar Eclipse UFO on google. There was a pretty spectacular UFO event in Mexico city which was videotaped by lots of people. It was just before a solar eclipse IIRC so lots of people had cameras and video tape machines handy.
There is tons of video tape UFO evidence so I don't understand why you claim there is none.
"As I said you don't understand"
I said that I don't understand why you shit on open source developers who work for you for free.
"People talk negatively about some [free] software because the software has serious flaws."
Yes and that's what will destroy open source. Only 1% of the people do any real work or pay a few bucks for their gratitute. OTOH the other 99% (like you) feels that it's prefectly appropriate to shit on those 1% of the people calling them fucktards and communists and calling their software shit. As time goes on you and the rest of the ungrateful 99% will keep shouting louder and louder and the 1% will lose even the occational "attaboy" they get now to continue to code. Eventually they will stop coding because nobody wants to work for free for ungrateful shitheads like you.
You, JWZ and the rest of the ungrateful rude and uncivilized bastards will kill open source.
"Shouldn't those people shut up and do it themselves if they don't like Emacs?"
Absolutely they should. I don't like Emacs so I don't use it. You'll neve catch me badmouthing emacs. RMS has done nothing to me or my family that would cause me to critize him. Why would I badmouth somebody who has done nothing wrong to me? Why would you? Why would anybody?
Look at what Slava did with Jedit. I don't know if he wrote Jedit because he didn't like Emacs but today Jedit rivals any editor on the planet including Emacs. I have never heard Slava say anything bad about anybody who worked on Emacs or VI or anything else. He rolled up his sleeves and wrote an awsome editor and other people helped. That's the way open source works. And you know what I have heard people shit on Salava and Jedit. There is no shortage of assholes and I hope to god Slava does not stop because of the assholes.
Looks like they dropped the price. I guess all that competition from free databases is making a big impact on SQL server. Dropping from 12K to 5K is a big deal. I suspect that they will have to drop it some more pretty soon after all interbase, sapdb, postgresql, mysql etc are getting better every day and most of them can already do 90% of what sql server does for free.
Anything that slows down the flow of money to Bill Gates is fine by me.
"We're not going to get a next-generation UI from Joe Engineer, whose idea of innovation is a widget cool enough for Microsoft to steal."
Bullshit. Most innovations come from Joe Engineers.
"The next-generation UI is going to come from UI experts"
Did the windows paradign come from UI experts? No it came from engineers.
"It's going to come from the people who reward me for the knowledge I've already accumulated"
No it's going to come from people who don't give a flying fuck about you and what you know. People who care about you will keep making the same old interfaces because they are afraid you are going to throw a snit fit when their new application does not follow the same keyboard shortcuts as your old application and does not look exactly like your old application. How can somebody create a revolutionary UI if they make it look and act exactly like the old one? They can't.
Nobody make you download and install it. But somebody wrote a program and gave it away for free. Somebody else provided you with a free server where you can download and install it. Instead of saying thanks you choose to shit on them. Nice.
I'll never understand why you choose to shit on people who are working to make a difference in this world. People who volunteer their time and money to provide you with free software. It's true I'll never understand ungrateful fucktards.