Slashdot Mirror
Palladium Changes Name
thelinuxking writes "According to this CNET article, Microsoft has changed the code name of its highly controversial 'trusted' computing platform from 'Palladium' to 'next-generation secure computing base.' Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.' Also, an unnamed small firm has claims to the trademark of 'Palladium'. Microsoft denies that they changed the name due to the criticism 'Palladium' has recieved, and released the source code to the core part of the software to show that the software is secure and does what they claim." Notice the PR diversionary tactic: it's being criticized because it does what they claim, not because it doesn't. :)
Why is it that a $300 billion some company isn't able to hire someone who check the with the trademark office to see if any of the crap they are using is already trade marked?
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
They can run, but they can't hide from /.
Palladium Books, maker of fine pen-and-paper role-playing games.
Maybe they changed it because no-one had a clue what palladium actually is...
Joe Sixpack - "Muuur, pall-ad-ium? What's that?"
Joe Fourpack - "I think it's food. I eat it."
Bill Gates - "No! That's an xbox 2, with trust built in so you can't watch VCDs, DivX, or listen to mp3s on it!"
Joe Fourpack - "Tastes like chicken."
-Mark
Good news everybody! We have free videos and MP3s! "Secure" computing base? Why are they sabotaging themselves, now this thing has the word "security" attached to it, and you know how MS's track record with security is!
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
Try saying that fast ten times in a row?
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Heh Palladium is the name of the movie cinema 200 meters from here.
Does this mean they will hand out copies of this "secret project" there?
I pulled a Palladium Mors in a pack of Chronicles years ago...
Death to Reefer Addicts.
--
Watch this,
Now Microsoft will change Windows XP to Windows NGICI (Next Generation Insecure Computing Interface) thats pronouced ni-ji-se
Help I'm a rock.
I figured for sure they were gonna try calling it MSinux
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
" Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.'"
Why does my stomach get a queezy feeling when I read this??
Hey, I got karma to burn...
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Because all our next-generation secure computing base are belongs to them.
Why don't M$ just call their next OS BorgOS? They can begin at v.8.0 so it looks "cool" and up to date with certain ISP's software versions (wink) and they can move up in version # perpetually.
Confirm the Borg rumors, bring on BorgOS!
In other news, Ikea has changed its name to Good Luck Putting This Stuff Together.
(inspired by Harland Williams)
...oOOo..'(_)'..oOOo...
"A rose by any other name..."
Trolling is a art,
They should take one from IBM's play book and release a White Paper / FAQ on how Palladi....ERR...Next Generation...Sec*&^*## has nothing todo with DRM and how that is what the bad folks over at TCPA are doing ... not good old MickeySoft!
All your next-generation secure computing base are belong to key signer.
If you cannot convince them, confuse them!
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
If it were mine, I think I'd be looking for a cool $1Bn...
Am I the only one that is tired of seeing my friends go work in Redmond? They will agree on 9 out of 10 Anti-MS criticisms, yet they go to work there. I am so frustrated with it. *sigh*
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
My Palladium sucks T-shirt is now worthless and I don't think a "next-generation secure computing base sucks" T-shirt will cut it.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
I still won't use it. I vowed that MS would never get another dime from me, and I meant it.
Don't have to deal with it at work either, we use all Linux.
at least it's catchy
Ahh, and yet another name change brought to you by your local devil-worshopping marketing department.
Hey buddy, "it's ready when it's ready". Oh wait a second. That's what the Debian developers are always saying and they're only, what, a YEAR behind in getting KDE3.0 and gcc3.2.
Never mind. Spam away!
"Microsoft denies that they changed the name due to the criticism 'Palladium' has recieved, and released the source code to the core part of the software to show that the software is secure and does what they claim."
Released the source to who? I don't remember seeing this anywhere and a little googling comes up with nothing. Seems like you would want to post it to slashdot since open source users are the ones most concerned about the ramifications of pallad... Err next generation secure computing base.
Because everybody want's a secure computing platform, right?
I mean, who wouldn't want a computer that has all its data secure, is immune to hackers, and runs only Microsoft products?
CitrusTV (http://www.citrustv.net): the Nation's Oldest & Largest Entirely Student-Run Television Station
... still has thorns. :-))
In accordance with Gnu/Stallmans naming policy, the ngscp (next generation secure computing base) must be renamed to gnu/win(64|32|16)/MSDOS~1/drm/tcpa/ngscp/xp/ie/200 0/98/95/ME/NT/BSD/Xenix/longhorn
Honestly, people ... Next-Generation-Secure-Computing-Base is not DRM. This is only a tool that will allow computer users more security over important documents. Just because Pallad...Next-Generation-Computing...can be used to build DRM does not mean that it should be lumped in with it. Save the knee jerk reactions for IBM and TCPA.
Security is Vulnerability
...or maybe she could just borrow a few thunderbolts from Zeus.
So everyone just forgot the blasted worm... :D
We're switching out our routers and servers as we speak to unix...
(postgresql is nice)
"There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do NOT wave in a Vacuum " --Arthur C Clarke
it's being criticized because it *does* what they claim...
So what is it that Palladium does that TCP doesn't do that's so bad for you? I've heard of Palladium doing curtain memory (which at least seems like a Good Thing(tm), but definitely is not a Bad Thing (tm) -- in the worst case a Useless Thing(tm) ), I have also heard that Palladium is *not* DRM.
So what's it to you? why are you complaining? Enlighten me, oh gods of OSS.
I think I'll buy stock in Apple and RedHat now. I'm sure your users are just going to love having to buy a new PC in order to use your next OS. I'm sure they're also going to love hearing little johnny's complaints that his MP3s and DivXs don't work anymore. Oh wait, don't forget grandpa, grandma, auntie, mom and pops. Yeah, the entire American family is now getting in on the act.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, boggle them with bullshit. :)
Putting the romance back into necromancer.
They just changed the name so that it would be harder to remember and search for. They could have made up a new term to refer to their new DRM, or got the rights to the name, but they have opted to use the vague "next-generation secure computing base" instead.
You can easily find stuff about Palladium. But searching for next-generation secure computing base turned up a lot of people using these keywords, and with quotes as of yet has turned up nothing.
However Linux doesn't seem to require an integrated hardware/software Palladium or similar technology. MS is trying to stay in the $. I'm sure over the next Decade Linux can get an interface as integrated and user-friendly as Windows and Macs (look at OsX on FreeBSD). Then what will you choose as a computing platform? .. An integrated Windows/hardware/software secure system that you pay through the teeth for, or a less restrictive but equally friendly, cost-effect Linux desktop system? ... especially if you are deploying hundreds or thousands in a corporation. The future can be bright. MS might just force themselves into harder competition by this secure computing strategy. Here's hoping, because it's always nice to have more than one on the playing field.
Oh wait... Palladi...Next..Generation...blah...blah won't fix stuff like the SQL Server bug and in fact has nothing resembling what we normally think of as security. My bad.
Yes : Palladium was a 'good' name. It encouraged people to talk about it. It was a Name against which people could league them together. Now it's another dull acronym nobody is willing to talk about ...
perhaps even to think about...
believe me, this is the most 'clever' idea from microsoft since June. by the way, this technique is getting pretty common in the area. There were already the dmca, tcpa, sssca, cbtdpa....
I urge people here to find it a catchy nickname before it is too late (it will be to late when the hype about palladium will be over, which means soon). "Big Brother" is maybe not original enough... and also not enough specific (there are other related issues in america, like the tia and the tips).
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
"Next-generation secure computing base", hmm, that's a little long, we should just abbreviate it to "DRM".
The fact that it was something that got a lot of attention and gave rise to a lot of misunderstanding
Yes, to be sure, people do not understand why Microsoft is telling them it's supposed to make their Windows security less buggy, when it's obviously much better suited to restricting what you can do with your own computer.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
I have always found that establishments which claim to be 'the best', or which incorporate such claims in their name, to be lacking.
"Seattle's best Coffee" is a great example. It is crap.
I am sure you have your own examples. I have found it generally wise to avoid those establishments and any products so-named.
I believe this move pretty much defines "obfuscation." It's easy to oppose, single out, and criticize "Palladium." It's a lot harder to oppose, single out, and criticize "secure network of corporate jargon and words that are put in to make the name longer initiative lemur".
:)
(If you're tempted to mod this "redundant", think about giving me some mercy points for using a nickel word like "obfuscation.")
Not seen anyone answer their own troll before now.
"the more things change, the more they remain the same"
... The NAME!"
Scene: Microsoft Marketing
MGR1: "we have an ojectionable, intrusive, likely insecure, amoebic "engulf and devour" program here that seems to be getting a lot of BAD PRESS!"
MGR2: "BAD PRESS! A major change is required to our whole approach!"
MGR1: "Major change?!?!" ---long pause---
"Fine! we'll change
--- FADE TO BLACK ---
But if they continue to use that term we could just refer to it as NGSCB. Its not too sexy or catchy, but after trying out with google it doesn't show up as much as the keywords in the new term Microsoft has decided to use.
Secure Computing Base
...and sell them Windows and Office.
The Next Generation
Cyberspace- the final frontier.
These are the voyages of the monopoly: Microsoft.
Its continuing mission- to seek out new life and new civilizations...
graspee
this might be a little off topic, but i find it interesting how this industry is full of companies who are able to regularly force things down their customer's throats and still generate a profit, whereas just about every other company in every other industry has to cater to its customers in order to survive.
Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
And like all grade A idiots on earth, the only thing that comforts me is knowing that you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life.
I keep hearing that TCPA is NOT the death of Free software. But how can that be?
Here's how I understand Palladium. It is implemented beginning at the hardware level. The hardware refuses to execute a boot sector that has not been digitally signed. Therefore, only "trusted" boot loaders will work.
From here, the trust is handed to the software, and the trust keeps expanding as more software is loaded. Some future version of Windows, let's call it Windows Secure User eXtensions, or for short, just Windows SUX, would be designed to cooperate with this trust model. The boot sector for WinSUX would be digally signed. So the hardware would load and execute the boot sector.
The boot sector loads an OS kernel from disk, the WinSUX kernel. Now the boot sector will not execute the kernel unless it is digally signed. So once the boot sector checks the signature, it passes control to the loaded kernel. The trust keeps expanding. Once the kernel is in control it can run only digitally signed device drivers, thus ensuring security of the hardware, and that only trusted hardware is used. WinSUX can also only run trusted applications, such as Windows Media Player, thus ensuring DRM. Untrusted applications could be run within a sandbox by WinSUX - with certain API's and raw access to the hardware being off limits. Thus only trusted DVD players, media players, etc. will run. There will be no CD audio rippers, because they, being unsigned and untrusted, won't have access to rip the raw bits from an audio CD.
Just as WinXP requires registration to use, WinSUX can do likewise. But with WinXP there are already numerous hacks to defeat the registration mechanism in WinXP. Not so with WinSUX. If you tamper with the code, you invalidate the digital signature, and the boot loader won't run the OS. Or if you didn't tamper with the kernel, then whatever trusted DLL or application you had to tamper with won't get run by the kernel because it's digital signature will now be invalid.
Being able to trust that WinSUX is trusted also allows Microsoft to ensure things that they cannot ensure today. They really could make WinSUX expire after two years and refuse to run. You could not patch WinSUX in order to continue running the OS you paid for.
So it seems like WinSUX does give security to Microsoft and to Hollywood, but not to the user. There still could be remote root exploits in WinSUX, thus allowing hackers to compromise running systems, steal credit card numbers, deface web pages, plant remote monitoring software, launch remote attacks, etc.
So far my analysis has not mentioned open source. Some would say, "If you don't like Palladium, then don't run WinSUX." But this ignores the fact that Palladium begins at the hardware. In order to run any bootloader, it must be signed.
There is no way that Microsoft is going to sign a bootloader like, say, LILO, the boot loader for Linux, unless it is trusted. Now LILO is open source, and Microsoft could say they will sign a "trusted" version of LILO. That is, if LILO is patched so that it will only execute a digally signed Kernel. So, LILO is patched, it is open source, Microsoft inspects the source, compiles it, and signs it. Now you can use the LILO boot loader and only execute signed Kernels. But all we've done is move the problem. Now I can only run signed Kernels. Maybe major distribution kernels such as SuSE, Red Hat, etc could have signed kernels. But what about Joe User who wants to compile his own kernel? What about developers who compile thirty kernels a day?
Of course, I'm sure Microsoft will find ways to make their own internal kernel developers lives easier. In fact, this becomes one way in which Microsoft can make external OS developers lives more difficult, and give their own developers an advantage.
The fact remains that the only way you're going to get a Kernel signed is if it is trusted. This means inspecting the source to make sure it doesn't have any naughty bits, and promises not to ever execute any other naughty bits. Signing kernels also becomes a new revenue stream for Microsoft.
But some would say: "But Palladium is optional, if you don't like it, just don't use it." Do you really expect me to believe that it will be optional? If it is optional, then all of its benefits completely disappear.
If Palladium were optional, then the following scenario would be possible. Put LILO into boot sector of hard drive. Boot up a specially crafted loader which loads the WinSUX kernel, patches it to bypass its security, and then start execution of the compromised WinSUX operating system. Once a compromised WinSUX can be executed, then all security bets are off. I could compromise its ability to run only signed device drivers. I could compromise its ability NOT to run an MP3 ripper. Compromise its registration mechanism, thus allowing pirated copies of WinSUX. Compromise its ability to quit running when it has reached the expiration date. It would even be possible to compromise WinSUX to allow the reading of material which Microsoft might consider "subversive", such as what you are reading right now.
Does anyone really believe Microsoft would go to so much trouble to ensure security only to turn around and make it optional? Optional means that the entire security of WinSUX and other future versions of Windows could be defeated. (Of course this is true on any non-Palladium hardware, such as a hardware emulation like Virtual PC.)
Let's continue with the analysis of getting open source programs to be "trusted". Maybe Microsoft runs a service where they will inspect another OS kernel to make sure it is trusted, and then they will sign it, so that the trusted LILO will run it. A trusted Linux kernel would have to be trusted not to execute any naughty code. Linux is trusted as long as it does two things: (1) only executes signed LKM's (Linux Kernel Modules), and (2) keeps certain API's off limits to untrusted user space programs. (You'll note that this is just how I previously described WinSUX.)
A Visual Basic programmer could write his own toy programs. But he could never write code that did anything naughty, such as play DVD's. Or he could do so only through secure COM components. System level programming would now become something that only a special "guild" could do. Ditto for device drivers.
Would Microsoft relax these restrictions? If I could run arbitrary LKM's, then all bets are off. I just write a Linux Kernel Module that holds interrupts, wipes memory clean, loads WinSUX, patches it, and then starts the compromised WinSUX running on the hardware. The LILO-Linux-LKM just becomes a means to an end of running compromised patched WinSUX code.
So in short, Palladium cannot be optional. If it were optional, then why bother at all? It guarantees nothing to the user. It only makes guarantees to Microsoft and to Hollywood. By making it optional, then these guarantees disappear.
If Palladium is not optional, then who holds the keys to sign programs? If just anyone can get any arbitrary program signed to run on the hardware, then the entire point of Palladium disappears. (I just need to get a special loader-patcher signed to compromise WinSUX. Or get some other program signed that will run my loader-patcher on the raw hardware.) If only trusted Open Source operating systems can run, then this effectively destroys open source. But Microsoft gets to play the PR game of saying that Open Source is welcome to participate in Palladium.
How can they pull this off? Just require all hardware to implement Palladium in order for it to run WinSUX. Most users will happily buy a computer with WinSUX preloaded. So the public will not understand that by allowing Palladium hardware to become widespread that they have just cemented Microsoft's control over what software that you can run on your computer.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Next-generation secure computing base? As opposed to the previous generations of secure computing bases?
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
how much vaporware do they have floating around?
doesn't it seem that they have more expertise in changing their product names, than actually making useful software?
is it just me, or has the marketing dept. been on a rampage for three years now?
they have grown to the point where the left hand doesn't want to know what the right is doing (we know /yank what it's doing).
i think its just a matter of time before the m$ bubble bursts at this rate. they are losing sight of reality at a rapid pace these days.
well, at least by the time they release Windows .Net Smart Server Phone 2006 featuring a Hailladium Security chip, the last of the Code Red, Klez and SQL bugs will be worked out. . .
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.'
I find it simultaneously amusing and annoying that Microsoft will still be in business for the next decade, thus having that much more time to make our IT lives a living hell with even more codenamed software to trample over privacy rights and innovation in the name of protecting privacy rights and innovation.
Or to borrow an idea from Prince, let's call it the "the fat piece of crap formerly known as Palladium."
Yeah the change has nothing to do with the steamy warm pile of bad press Palladium has received for the last 10 months. This solely reflects Microsoft's decision to integrate, augment and "embrace" other secure technology along with Palladium.
Welcome to Echelon v3.11.
All attempts to copy this software will result in painful bursts of highly focused photon particles from the sky.
____
ATS11=0 the secret to beating everyone else to a 1 line board.
All our efforts to get "palladium = bad" into the heads of non-techies are wasted.
"next-generation secure computing base = bad" is a more complex a message that does not make a neat soundbite
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
But this new name just doesn't have the same ring to it. How do you make up a catchy slogan -- any slogan -- containing the inconceivably awkward phrase "next-generation secure computing base"?!
The resistance needs catchy terminology, even if the Evil Empire doesn't.
I suggest, as a start, that "next-generation" is superfluous: Perhaps even the word "base" is as well, as long as the "Microsoft" is still in there: This presents the problem, however, that people may confuse the already-meaningful phrase "secure computing" with digital rights mangling.
One safe route, perhaps, is to insist on calling it "DRM", even as that phrase takes on an increasingly negative connotation and Microsoft attempts to disown it.
Microsoft Secure Medium Which Interfaces with Hardware and Makes Sure That Those Warezing Bastards Don't Pilfer MicroSoft Office and Visual Studio Or Else Bill Gates Is Not Going To Be Able To Afford His Borg Implants Anytime Soon And That Will Be a Real Bummer Because We Are Afraid of Those Linux Zealots is the newest attempt at securing the Microsoft Advantage.
After about 10 paragraphs of that, people decide to go, "I can't take it and instead write about LongHorn's database file system.
Good Strategy.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
Now if they had changed the name to something like "Athena: super-dimensional fortress of security" then victory in the market would be assured.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
You know what, this is just an example of how repulsive slashdot really is. I mean, it's great for news, but when people can just spout stuff with absolutely no basis, then they're full of it.
.NET compiler I was given for free from a .NET Academic Convention in Detroit, as well as XP OS. XP is as stable of an opertaing system that you can have, while still incorporating user-functionality with the least amount of hassle.
While it's true that MS's flaws have been made well public, there is no peice of software that is invulnerable to malicious use. Red Hat, Apple, Apache, and the like are releasing updates and fixes just as much as Redmond is.
Microsoft has done a number of things right; I really enjoy using MSVC++
Xbox Live! is one of the best times I've had playing online gaming in years. PC online gaming is ridden with cheaters, and many don't even think twice; Xbox live is still new, but they are taking lots of steps to prevent cheating. And I applaud that.
You know what I think? I think the net has suffered enough DDOS attacks, Worm Spreads, and Virii for the last 10 years because of OS's from MS the this next "Secure" release should be free to anyone who was made unsecure before from MS.
So I want to mail them a copy of Windows 98 and I want this new "Secure" version for free because I already paid for an operating system which was supposed to be more "stable and secure" and now what? This should be free to everyone who had to suffer data loss from the fault of MS.
Or I guess I could get an upgrade to a secure OS for free ... www.openbsd.org ...
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
If Bill wants a more descriptive name for Palladium, may I suggest calling it:
This is exactly the point ! Have you ever taken some time to think about the semantics of : ... ... weird ?
"Microsoft Windows", "Microsoft Word", etc... ?
What it they had been called "Tiny Sweet Windows", "Tiny Sweet Word" ? Wouldn't you think of those names as
why has the parent got 0 ? mod it up !
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
We always say someone's a beer short of a sixpack
Harry S Truman?
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
"next-generation secure computing base" or, as it is known in-house, "Bend Over(tm)"
Rumagent
Calling it ' next-generation secure computing base' is a great way of hiding Palladium as a feature on the box of the next Windows. Say I was going to retail to pick up MS Windows' next version. On the box there is either listed in the features which would look more appeasing to consumers?
.NET ?
1) 'next-generation secure computing base'
2) Palladium
From the article "To address the criticism, the company has decided to release the source code of the core part of the software, known as the nub or nexus, so that others can verify it is secure and is doing only what the company has claimed."
Question: What about
In a similar vein, Intel's hardware implementation could be called "Big Brother Inside" or "Gestapo Inside" or somesuch.
Remember when Sony referred to the PS2 as the "Next-Generation PlayStation"? Aren't you glad they changed that name to something similar?
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Yesterday you were saying Palladium and TCPA are basically the same thing, and bashing them both. With these skills, your karma will go far.
All your next-generation secure computing base belong to us!
...but other than saving the riaa, what is "next generation secure computing" going to fix security-wise? am i correct to assume that this scenario can take place?
::crash::
NGSCserver: incoming request! are you a NGSC computer?
NGSCcomuter: why, yes. as a matter of fact, i am!
NGSCserver: great! what can i do for you now that i know you are a trusted platform?
NGSCcomputer: i would like to exploit one of your bugs, causing you to blow your brains out and bring you to a screeching halt.
NGSCserver: okay! youre the boss!
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
I know for one Bruce Perens eagerly awaits for Secure Trusted Computing: that's the only way he'll be able to get back the laptop lots of people have stolen him during LinuxWorld !
How do you make up a catchy slogan -- any slogan -- containing the inconceivably awkward phrase "next-generation secure computing base"?!
This is absolutely the point. As anyone who follows the abortion issue knows (ex-- is it "Pro-Life" or "Anti-Choice?"), much of controlling a public debate is about winning the "terminology" war. How better to obfuscate a debate by blurring the way the topic is labeled and discussed? Is anyone in the general public really going to read an article which refers to Microsoft's dull-sounding "next-generation secure computing base"? Who wants to be "anti-security" anyway?
Notice that "NGSCB" is unpronouncable and hard to wrap your head around. Where as people can rally around a fight against something called "Palladium" there is no easy "brain-handle" in NGSCB to grab onto. They've chosen a bland nothing-name.
The Federal government had a similar problem with "Carnivore" which just sounds ominous. So what did they do? They changed the name to something bland-- DCS1000...something that sounds boring and innocuous, like the model of a breadmaker.
I'm sure the Department of Justice's Total Information Awareness will be renamed shortly to some anagram with no vowels like the "next-generation secure nation base 2003LJFBF". When you see they've changed the name, remember you saw it here first.
Incidentally, Time has a good article about how the White House is trying the same kind of thing by reterming thinning of trees as "management-caused changes in vegetation". While they can't do an all-out assault on the environment...
"They are rejecting the full-frontal-assault approach that gets a lot of media attention in favor of death by a thousand strokes of the pen," contends Stoermer. The Republicans are also learning how to spin environmental issues in their direction. In a confidential document distributed to G.O.P. Governors and members of Congress just before last November's elections, Republican pollster Frank Luntz advised party members to refer to themselves as "conservationists." The document said, "The first (and most important) step to neutralizing the [Republican environmental] problem and eventually bringing people around to your point of view on environmental issues is to convince them of your 'sincerity' and 'concern.'"
It's all about baby-steps and controlling the debate through language. As far as I'm concerned, whatever Microsoft now calls PALLADIUM, we and the press should not let them get away with it.
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
the 'Incredibly Rich Flogger!' Now let's see how long this fools my credit card company.
I'm not fooled by MS's "name change."
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
I don't want a key locked to my machine, because it becomes useless if I switch machines, if the old one breaks, or I simply want something better.
Why is it so hard to understand that what is wrong with private keys is that I don't have complete control over them? If it's my private key, it's mine, not something hardware generated that I can't keep or delete or copy at my whim. When it goes out of my control, it's somebody else's, not mine, and I don't want it!
Infuriate left and right
"Notice the PR diversionary tactic: it's being criticized because it does what they claim, not because it doesn't. :)"
It is being criticized by people who care about freedom... but the people who pose a more serious barrier are European and other governments.
The PR is focussed at the SERIOUS objections... not what you or I might find uncomfortable or politically objectionable.
Don't call it <long winded mumblefrotz>, call it "The Technology Formerly Known as Palladium".
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
my thoughts exactly.
(Depending on how immediate MS would like a user-bases platform transition,) I have a feeling this could either break or make MS.
something as integral as this could seriouly undermine its share in the home computing market: free/uncostly/pirated media and applications are exactly what people buy computers for.
Everyone will know the limitations before it is launched.. the only place I can see it taking off is in the Business Sector (as a compulsory part of a software licencing agreement).
Even by then it will remain to be seen how many companies consider MS platforms to be the most cost-effective and cheap to maintain. Not many, I'll wager.
I would think it would take a lot less than a decade to arrive at a UI as user-friendly and integrated than Windows or Mac.what is most amusing is that this might have had a chance to gain "popularity" with users if it had been brought onto the market before the maturation of mass filesharing and open-source. (not that i'm going to confuse the two)
that, and somehow convincing Apple to use the same Hardware architecture =)
<B>note to self:</B> <I>post as html</I>
What does 'Jackboot' mean ? that sounds cool, but I have never heard it (and English is not my native language).
'Gestapo inside' is too violent, as you know.
Hey, I've just had an idea : why not picking some name involving 'Soma' or 'Our Ford' or anything else from the 'brave new world' book by Huxley ?
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
To all those of you who have published pages with a realistic/pessmisitic view of the Palladium security platform: Update those page's META-tags NOW include any or all of the new terminology created by the Microsoft Marketing Department (r). Or else those search-engines will fail miserably to find anything relevant when those company executives tries to find information about the-next-great-thing from Microsoft which has been told to be oh-so-secure.
Jakob Breivik Grimstveit
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by."
User 1: What happened?
User 2: Somebody set up us the OS!
User 1: We get Palladium. Main screen turn on.
User 2: What?!?
[computer monitor slowly reveals G.A.T.E.S]
User 1: It's you!!!
G.A.T.E.S.: How are you gentlemen? All your next-generation secure computing base are belong to us!!!
User 1: What you say?
G.A.T.E.S.: 'Palladium' trademark is on the way to destruction. They have no chance to survive make their time.
Just my 2 cents. If Palladium totally wins, than people will get encouraged to create their own hardware. Now all commercial hardware exceeds the capability of what individuals can construct because performance is the only reason to pay more. But existence of Palladium, especially enforced by law, creates demand for the untrusted hardware, even with lower performance.
Somewhere, in a dark and smoky Redmond meeting room, an internal Microsoft slogan is born...
All your next-generation secure computing base are belong to us
The DRM previously known as Palladium.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
Interested in AI? MACR
The guy is a complete moron. Just look how many anti-Microsoft trolls he has posted in the past 24 hours (actually, we don't know the exact number because user pages only show the past 24 posts). Its pretty telling of how much he needs to get laid.
Catchy name, eh?
How about Palladium? Many people already know what it means, and it's (somewhat) memorable.
Just because Microsoft declares the name to have been changed, doesn't mean anyone needs to listen.
Distinctive keywords are bad for MS. Try searching google for Palladium - very first result will expose all the crap hidden behind smoke. Search for generic phrases like "next generation secure computing base" will always return enough irrelevant pages to keep users confused and under control.
...appealing as "The Ballpark in Arlington"
Bleagh.
Microsoft has changed the code name of its highly controversial 'trusted' computing platform from 'Palladium' to 'next-generation secure computing base.'
Someone mis-filed this under "Microsoft".. is the "It's Funny.. Laugh.." category broken?
S
Nah.
Inventor of the LOLbalrog meme.
are belong to us.
Why does that whole comment remind me unnervingly of the government in the book 1984?
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. (Full text here. Quote is from chapter 5.)
As I've said before, we need to get the lizards and aliens out of office or we'll all be wishing we lived in a country as free as Iraq.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Same shit, different name !
---
Satan, the Prince of Darkness, has changed his name to "Stan, the Democratically Elected Official Overseeing Things That Really Fall Into A Grey Area... Seriously, It's Not Evil."
Naaaah....'course not!
I mean, next-generation secure computing base, doesn't the new name just roll of you're tong like butter?
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
Yes, TCPA can also be used to build DRM. No, no one should criticize TCPA for having a potential application that is undesirable, because TCPA essentially provides features that are desirable.
/., you know that TCPA wasn't built with DRM in mind and therefore supports it in only an ineffective way.
Yes, the OS formerly known as Palladium can be used to build DRM. Yes, it should be criticized for this.
The difference is that TCPA is not owned by MS, it's created by 200-odd different companies and, as an open standard, owned by no one. If someone builds an implementation of TCPA that makes DRM feasible, we can choose not to buy it--therefore they won't, because nobody wants to put millions of dollars into R&D on a product that's guaranteed not to sell.
Microsoft, on the other hand, will certainly build DRM into the OS formerly known as Palladium. They have no reason not to, because as history has shown time and again, people are lemmings who will follow MS anywhere, even into a system as ludicrously restrictive as DRM. Their friends in the record and movie industry, on the other hand, will love (==pay) them for embracing DRM.
Besides, the OS formerly known as Palladium is built in such a way as to make DRM very much a possibility, whereas if you've read the recent
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Just playing a shell game...change the name...change the perception
In other news:
The legal system today changed the term "rape" to "unauthorized cavity access"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jackboot
The names have been changed to protect those who are guilty as fuck and don't want to get caught red-handed (even though the government will just slap them on the wrist again, most likely).
Here in the UK they thought we'd be convinced that Sellafield wasn't the same nuclear power station which went bang when it was called Windscale. Good article here on re-branding a PR disaster away.
What does 'Jackboot' mean ?
It's a stiff, high boot, associated with the military, especially Nazi Germany.
Hey, I've just had an idea : why not picking some name involving 'Soma' or 'Our Ford' or anything else from the 'brave new world' book by Huxley ?
I suspect this would be too obscure
I got insider info from a friend at Microsoft who said the only reason it was changed was so lazy geeks couldn't point out its flaws anymore.
http://saveie6.com/
If you don't wish to trust CNet words too much, it might help to throw in a more official link:
j ul02/0724palladiumwp.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/
This is an old press release, but read the "Editor's Update".
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Since they started doing the arcades-in-a-theatre in Canada say some odd 6+ years back? Being mostly American read, i figured that this was an "Canada-only" thing, and should be brought to the attention of the uninitiated south of 49 :)
I tried to think of a good sig, and this wasn't it.
Was Palladium, before Corel wasted (what, never!) money on getting it changed. The Corel Center is located in Ottawa (Kanata to be more precise) and is the home of the NHL LEAGUE LEADING OTTAWA SENATORS! meh!
I tried to think of a good sig, and this wasn't it.
Gee, and I just thought they want another quasi-generic trademark like "Windows"!
-A
of what people have imagined it would do and what people have lied about it doing and what people have guessed that it might one day be able to do. People have been doing the same sort of thing Chicken Little was known for: running around screaming "the sky is falling! the sky is falling!".
And it's NOT just healthy skepticism either, I mean, when was the last time you heard some one raising hell about the fact that police officers have guns? Imagine what they could do with those guns! And they HAVE done things with those guns. And they COULD do things to you with them.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
In other news, does anyone else think it interesting that they are releasing the source code to part of Palladium? Cnet was a little thin on details about that though.
What's that for a name ? next-generation secure computing base ??? ;)
Why not "XBox Pro" as many expected ?
Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
ah ok then... jackboot is rather good because 'boot' has a meaning for computers...
...
what about something around tolkien/wagner's ring ?
that reminds me of the old joke identifying the windows cdrom with the one ring... here it goes:
-Put it in the cdrom drive !
-W-what? in the cdrom drive ?
-Yes, says gandalf; and after a moment he carefully presses the EJECT button.
-Your hand ! See? It's quite cool ! can you see anything?
-N-no... wait... yes... there are writings... 'All rights reserved. By installing windows longhorn on any device you implicitly agree with the DRM User Licence.' I can't understand this language...
-None of you can... the letters are english, but the tongue is that of redmond, which I shall not utter here. it says
I think 'the one ring' could be rather appropriate for palladium... what's your opinion ?
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
A rose by any other name... ...still checks your harddrive for mp3s.
just thought you might want to know what you're talking about before you run off prognosticating.
How many times will they change this name?
The Palladium Fantasy RPG®... http://www.palladiumbooks.com
And therefore and insomuch, claiming "Palladium" for a sucking TCPA-Addendum is really um, sucking.
I am glad they changed it to an "Acronym formerly known as Palladium":)
common star-trek go claim trademark of next-generation then they have nothing to stand on
/. what not
sig.
See their website: http://www.palladium.fr
-- This message was made with 100% recycled electrons.
-braxton
Oh wait, that's already been used, hasn't it?
Now that's being honest "NGBS"
Is it just me of is everyone else getting tired of "Next Generation....."
It worked for Star Trek but after that.... Everyone was copying..... And AGAIN MS is late... Even later in real security... Maybe security has something to do with honesty at the base???
That can be circumvented by an every day, run of the mill, film based camera. Doesn't Gates watch spy movies?
I'm not sure you got it with this one, and I think it should be clarified for those who don't: this will work fine with any normal hard drive because all the data stored on it will be encrypted--no one will be able to recover that encrypted information (except maybe Microsoft-- perhaps not even then) no matter what they do (unless they steal the hidden keys on the motherboard somehow). I see no reason where they will need to create a special Windows Secure User eXtensions drive.
This will also cause problems for data recovery. Imagine you have some important files on the drive and the head crashes. A professional may be able to restore most of the encrypted information on the drive, but how are they supposed to decode it?
Maybe, maybe not. Microsoft is so careless, I wouldn't be surprised if someone stole their certified keys and posted them on the internet. Remember the stories about Microsoft getting hacked, and the stories about some guys who cracked MS's signature keys. I serously doubt MS will keep the people from doing the same things they are today-- creating worms and viri, copying music / movies w/o perm from copyright holder, stealing credit card / bank account info, etc...
Security my ass. WinSUX!
First you complain that Windows isn't secure. Now you're complaining that they're going to make it too secure.
What the hell?
You people are nuts. I don't get these complaints or arguments at all. It's like the advent of the lock and key. I wonder if the general population rioted because people would actually put a lock on their doors and keep the key to themselves?!!! Oh the horror!
I can't wait to hear the complaints when Windows is the most secure operating system on the planet.
You guys will have even more time on your hands then.
http://chicagodave.wordpress.com
MS likes to use simple names for all their products... Word, Money, SQL Server, Windows, Echange...
Why not rename Palladium to...
MS Vault(tm)...
All this technology Microsoft is builing into their software will eventually lead to their own demise. Apple and various Linux distributors offer superior OS's for less money. If the hardware is integrated in this monopolistic scam, go out and buy yourself a nice multiprocessor Apple computer. Problem solved.
The recent SQL outbreak was caused by lazy admins not patching their boxes. Pallidium will give them a greater sense of security without providing any significant protection. Rember this software will be written by M$, the undisputed heavy weight champion of the remote exploit. Pallidium is all about controlling what YOU can/can't do with YOUR box not prtecting it from hackers.
you know the phrase "if you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen ..." well, how many of you are going to remember the name .. "next-generation secure ....." shit, I've forgotten allready!
That is just so dang funny. I can't stop laughing
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
"Our current generation of secure computing sucks, let's have a next-gen."
They must have a special marketing department that thinks up these names. Just like their web server's name is "Internet Information Server", or whatever IIS stands for. "Nothing short or simple, let's go for long, hard to say, and meaningless."
"Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
http://saveie6.com/
Did you read the interview with tha AMI guy a while back?
Did you read the news lately?
You're talking about TCPA, thats what Transmeta is working on - go read the whitepapers. Anyone can use TCPA, it's little more than a DSP for crypting.
IBM is gonna release open source TCPA drivers for Linux soon, and you don't need to register or get your software signed to make it work with TCPA - it is an option, not a necessity.
Palladium or whatever it'll be called is something different and does not necessarily depend on TCPA, but it may use it.
Windows 2000 site goes over two years without a reboot
This month is the first time that a Windows 2000 site has appeared in the 50 top sites which have the longest period of time since last reboot. www.byteandswitch.com has been running continuously since November 2000. When we first started graphing web servers uptime in the summer of 2000, many people were skeptical that a Windows machine would ever make the top 50. Perceptions change, and although two years is exceptional, several Windows 2000 sites have run for more than a year without a reboot. In the hosting industry, Microsoft partners Interliant and Divine each have sites that have not been rebooted in over a year, while Microsoft has also run several of its own sites for over a year between reboots.
-- ten bucks says that these systems are not patched --
Thanks for your insightful commentary. I see a promising trolling future for you. With that username, nothing could really go wrong! I'm still giggling like a teenage girl (with hot grits in between her labia minora).
For future reference: it's spelt "vomiting".
YUO = TEH WINNAR!!!!!!!!111!
;-)
FAGOT
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Re:Great...
Re:Great... (Score:1)
by moncyb (456490) Alter Relationship on 2003.01.26 2:43 (#5159579)
How about a T-shirt that says: Next-generation Windows Secure [against] User eXtenstions -- WinSUX!
[ Reply to This ]
Post Comment
LOOKY HE SI TEH FUNNEY AGANI!!!111! LOLOLOLOLO!!11!
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
That is "next-generation secure computing base".
Yes there will be "Windows next-generation secure computing base" and
"Office next-generation secure computing base". Obviously people will
want something shorter - I suggest we give it to them.
The problem with windows Next-Gen is paramount would never tolerate that
use of their name, and as they are quite good at defending their rights
that option is out.
Ok how about Windows secure - the challenge there is to find people who
can say that with a straight face.
Windows computing - egads that's too bland even for Bill's taste.
So we are left with Windows Base. Tolerable and usable. Now as Windows
Millennium became Windows ME, and Windows Experience became Windows XP.
I have no doubt that Windows Base should become Windows BS.
Feel free to pass this on - please do.
I'd wager that someone's been looking at the periodic table.
Intel's doing the same thing. The "Pentium" mark is the systematic name of boron, standing for atomic number 5. "Xeon" and "Itanium" are "xenon" and "titanium" minus a letter each. "Celeron" is a made-up name designed to fit into the scheme.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Unfortunately, the original English quote which caused all the confusion, "Some have speculated that Bill Gates' Microsoft Corporation may even achieve world domination through the commercial acceptance of the new MS Palladium product", was tragically mistranslated into Farsi as literally "Many expect Bill Gates to sell Palladium to help UN sanctioned tin pot dictators of middle eastern countries who attack their neighbors to achieve world domination."
Darn those English - Farsi translator applications.
Now with the $2,500,000,000 pre-release order placed by the Government of Iraq apparently lost, Microsoft can now safely move on to a far catchier name for their new product like the one put forth herein.
Sig - Involvement in computing on an ongoing basis will likely lead to madness.
Consider the transition metals in this neat periodic chart (the map seems to be the territory!):
A. "Transition Metals" is a cool-sounding idea for a product naming strategy. And, the actual elements are conductors of heat and electricity (sounds good and electronic) and many are seen as valuable by the general public (gold, etc.)
B. Titanium -> Itanium. It's been taken.
C. Iridum? Taken, went down in flames (darn!)
D. Zirconium, sounds cheap. Nix.
E. Chromium? Well M$ has already taken it, but thought it sounded cooler as "Chrome".
D. Palladium -> Apallium! Sounds apalling! Can't use it.
E. There are already companies using palladium.com, vanadium.com, technetium.com (tucows got it, good show!), niobium.com's gone, someone called Dragon Information has yttrium.com. Aaand Tungsten's been used recently.
Some icky company with tons of popups stole selenium.com and .net!
Okay, you get the drift. What's left? Some of the names have been taken, or sound too prosaic or downright scandalous (Scandium, though naming after Scandanavia is neat). Some are doomed due to prevaling western opinion; Osmium sounds like Osamaium, Hassium sounds (just a little) like Husseinium.
Obviously high-paid marketgeeks feel they've struck oil with ..the periodic chart! Maybe now's a good time to strike a blow for freedom. Anyone want to register remaining ones, I also recommend the Noble Gases because they're.. um, Nobel! I mean Noble! But you can forget Xenon (Intel got that too). Anyone feel like researching good candidates make your posts count!
I've asked for a quote on seaborgium.com. But may I recommend bromium?
One, by me
Three OS for the hacker kings,
coding through the day,
Seven for the CEOs
in their halls of stone,
Nine for consumers,
doomed to pay,
One from the Gates lord,
claimed to be his own.
One OS to rule them all,
One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond,
Where the lawyers lie.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
They changed the name beacuse palladium is too easy say, this next genration bollocks is so its more difficult to say , so its discussed less and allowed to quitelt grow
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
...are belong to us.
Think about it. What is a "computing base"? I'm not sure these guys even know what they mean when they talk about Palladium, so what does it matter what they call it. Probably vapor, until they think of a DRM strategy.
The next-generation-secure-computing-base memo/PR bulletin mentions a "nexus and nexus agents." Does anyone know what this means? Do they?
BTW, the pedantic grammarian in me wants to point out that the hyphen in "next-generation secure computing base" is superfluous. "Next" is an adjective and knows perfectly well what it's supposed to modify without being told.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
No, it worked. People understand that M$ is neither "trusted" or "secure". They can change the name of their system all they want, people understand the concepts ammount to Digital Rights Denial. They know what to look for, regardless of name.
When you have a file on your computer that you can't copy or delete, but someone else can, someone else owns and controls your computer. Call it what you want, people know that not controling their work is bad.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
To boldly split infinitives, the trade marked Star Trek error.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.