" Your repeated reference to historical events unrelated to the present debate is nothing more than sheer hyperbole, and is therefore not worthy of further discussion."
And your use off the word "martyr" is not hyperbole? You are no better then the man you critize. You use the exact same tactics and appeal to emotion.
Most likely this is because RMS would run circles around you in an argument. Just comparing your writings I'd say he is ten times as smart as you are.
The ability to communicate and pass knowledge from one to another and one generation to another is what differentiates us from animals. I can argue that what stallman is doing is more important then civil rights. He is fighting for your right to speak, read, write and communicate. Not just you the entire human race.
" I rasied a question based on some information, and gave a source."
You gave a crappy biased source with an ax to grind. Don't try to weasel out now. A quick search on google would have given you a thousand sources but you chose this one.
" I guess name calling is in order when you have no informed rebuttal."
No Name calling is in order when you are moron. You are a moron because apparently the only thing you can find on ralph nader on the entire internet was disinformation. You then posted it here "hoping to get an informed response to either confirm or disprove the claims". That makes you a double moron AKA a fucking idiot.
" BTW, how *do* you make a living? "
I make a good living fixing things morons like you break, building things morons like you buy, and buying and selling information about morons like you. Lucky for me the world is full of morons like you.
For the record there are some commercial linux based accounting packages out there. I don't know if they are acceptable by your german regulations but they do exist. Having said that I say no big deal. Let the people who need german compliant accounting use windows. That market is too small to be filled by open source but large enough to be satisfied by commercial software.
I would pay serious money to see that evil bastard dragged out on to the street and beat up. I would prefer that it be done by people well trained on exacting serious pain without killing the subject or making him unconcious. Perhaps some elite israeli torturers. Imagine what those guys could do to Gates. Besides which they would probably enjoy it because it gives them a break from torturing palestenians all day in a hot stinking prison. Offer them a chance to travel to seattle and torture Bill Gates in front of billions and I bet they would jump at the chance.
There is no real difference between amoral and immoral when it comes to beings. Yes objects can be amoral but any action taken by any being is either moral or immoral.
Corporations are beings (you say legal fiction but the supreme court which is a legal entity says that they are beings). More precisely they are immortal soul-less beings and in this regard they are much like the demons and devils which are described in religious texts.
As an aside making profit is actually immoral if your morality comes from christ or budha. Both of those figures preached a life of charity and poverty. They both repeatedly warned against accumulating wealth, borrowing, lending, and usury. Since corporations are built only to pursue wealth they are inherently immoral. Also since corporations are designed to shirk personal responsibility they are immoral.
"Besides, if they were fundamenally immoral, whose morals is it that they try to violate? People have different views on what's moral."
Very true. If you were a satanist for example pursuing wealth and accumulating it are very moral activities. If you are christian or a budhist then they are not moral activities. If you are a moslem then you have no problems with accumulating wealth. It all depends on where you are coming from.
Capitalism most closely resembles satanism something I find facinating.
Of course. Corporations are by nature immoral. You can not expect them to take any action which is moral unless it leads directly to profit. Of course there are so few moral actions that lead to profit but that's another story.
I would love to get SF in here. Anything you can tell me about getting a decent deal would be awsome. You can send to the usa.com email address if you want.
Also we have a lot of windows only programmers and they get freaked by command line tools sometimes what are you using for CVS integration?
"slowly gaining popularity and many web sites have converted over to ASP.NE"
I think this is the problem. MS programmers have no choice. They have to use whatever MS tells them to. When COM came out everybody has to switch to OCXs and ditch the VBXs they have no choice.
I think MS is alarmed by how few of their developers are switching. By now they expected everybody who was useing VB to be using VB.NET and re-write all their applications in it. Apparently for the first time in history MS developers are actually showing some backbone and some are even switching to java.
In the end MS will win. MS windows developers have no choice but to switch sooner or later. I think Bill G was thinking it would be sooner. We all have to pay Bill eventually though.
The proper response is to reveal what gates is trying to do. To hold him responsible for his words and actions. If any harm comes to an open source developer we need to hold Bill Gates personally responsible.
"Real has given away its basic player since the beginning so I don't see how they can make the claim that Microsoft undercut them. "
real sells it's server MS gives their away. In any other industry and for any other company this would be illegal. Several companies were fined by the US govt for doing the same thing. Bill Gates and MS are above the law so they get to do whatever they want as long as they continue to grease the palms of the politicians.
"When I installed AOL on my girlfriend's computer it forced me to install Real. Real then took over her file associations."
1) AOL is not a monopoly. 2) AOL is free 3) Installing AOL is a free choice. 4) Just because someone else does something evil it does not excuse your evilness.
Did you read my whole message? The comment is not to insult me it's to incite other people to cause harm to me. Bill Gates knows full well that Americans hate communists and he wants Americans to hurt open source developers, perhaps by killing them, perhaps by jailing them. Words like communist and un-american were chosen carefully after much consultation with public relations firms and focus groups. They used those words because they were the ones most likely to incite violent action by the masses.
This technique has been used very successfully by pro life groups and Bill gates has learned from them. There have been numerous clinics bombed, doctors killed, and people wounded because priests called them murders and evil. Bill Gates is hoping for the same result.
My prediction is that the next word they will use is terrorist, at a minimum Bill gates will equate open source development with terrorism. That seems to be the "fighting word" of the day. He wants us in jail or dead and using words like communist and un-american are the best way to accomplish that short of actually hiring people to kill open source developers.
There is probably nothing wrong with being being a whore or a bitch either but I dare you to call your girlfriend/wife/mother one.
The MS execs used the terms communist and un-american on purpose. They did it because it causes a viceral reaction on the part of amerricans. It's an often used trick when you want violence perpetrated on your enemy. MS sees us as the enemy and it wants us in jail with the rest of the terrorists and/or wants to incite violence against us. Why else would it have used those terms? They could have just as easily said "open source developers are generous" but they said communist instead.
I believe the comparison was made because in both cases MS started "dumping" software for free thereby cutting off the other companies air supply. Since MS can not actually make a decent 1.0 product they dump and force people to install it. You can do that when you have a monopoly.
" Well.. I'm not an expert, but I can't think of any patentable technology in C#/."
Well not only are you not an expert but you are also profoundly ignorant. Have you not been keeping up with the absurd patent office issuing patents for silly things? As it turns out both winforms and ado.net have patented technology behind them. There are probably other patents that apply which MS will hold in reserve just in case mono actually gets done and gains traction.
If you think C# is great then good for you. I for one don't care for a language that lacks the ability to write gui apps or database apps. Both of those are absent unless you are using windows.
No sun Exec ever called apache developers communist or un american. Sun is not actively trying to destroy open source. Sun is not lobbying congress to make open source illegal. Sun does not have calauses in their EULAS prohibiting people from developing open source products etc.
On a scale of 1 to 10 ms rates 9.9 on the old evil scale (10 being reserved for the devil) and sun ranks maybe 3 or 4.
Mono is nothing. It's in it's infancy and is at least three years away from being production quality. It probably will never get there due to MS patents.
By the time Mono is mature MS will have dropped.NET for next big acronym of the day.
Slashdot Mirror
" Your repeated reference to historical events unrelated to the present debate is nothing more than sheer hyperbole, and is therefore not worthy of further discussion."
And your use off the word "martyr" is not hyperbole? You are no better then the man you critize. You use the exact same tactics and appeal to emotion.
Most likely this is because RMS would run circles around you in an argument. Just comparing your writings I'd say he is ten times as smart as you are.
The ability to communicate and pass knowledge from one to another and one generation to another is what differentiates us from animals. I can argue that what stallman is doing is more important then civil rights. He is fighting for your right to speak, read, write and communicate. Not just you the entire human race.
" I rasied a question based on some information, and gave a source."
You gave a crappy biased source with an ax to grind. Don't try to weasel out now. A quick search on google would have given you a thousand sources but you chose this one.
" I guess name calling is in order when you have no informed rebuttal."
No Name calling is in order when you are moron. You are a moron because apparently the only thing you can find on ralph nader on the entire internet was disinformation. You then posted it here "hoping to get an informed response to either confirm or disprove the claims". That makes you a double moron AKA a fucking idiot.
" BTW, how *do* you make a living? "
I make a good living fixing things morons like you break, building things morons like you buy, and buying and selling information about morons like you. Lucky for me the world is full of morons like you.
For the record there are some commercial linux based accounting packages out there. I don't know if they are acceptable by your german regulations but they do exist. Having said that I say no big deal. Let the people who need german compliant accounting use windows. That market is too small to be filled by open source but large enough to be satisfied by commercial software.
Even your propaganda web site says Nader spends almost all his money on his causes.
IF you go around accepting what disinformation says as gospel I got a bridge I want to sell you.
Thank god America is full of moronic idiots like you. How else would the rest of us make a living.
I would pay serious money to see that evil bastard dragged out on to the street and beat up. I would prefer that it be done by people well trained on exacting serious pain without killing the subject or making him unconcious. Perhaps some elite israeli torturers. Imagine what those guys could do to Gates.
Besides which they would probably enjoy it because it gives them a break from torturing palestenians all day in a hot stinking prison. Offer them a chance to travel to seattle and torture Bill Gates in front of billions and I bet they would jump at the chance.
Aren't there a few open source ones out there? Have you tried compiere?
ERP is a bad idea for a mid size business though if you ask me.
There is no real difference between amoral and immoral when it comes to beings. Yes objects can be amoral but any action taken by any being is either moral or immoral.
Corporations are beings (you say legal fiction but the supreme court which is a legal entity says that they are beings). More precisely they are immortal soul-less beings and in this regard they are much like the demons and devils which are described in religious texts.
As an aside making profit is actually immoral if your morality comes from christ or budha. Both of those figures preached a life of charity and poverty. They both repeatedly warned against accumulating wealth, borrowing, lending, and usury. Since corporations are built only to pursue wealth they are inherently immoral. Also since corporations are designed to shirk personal responsibility they are immoral.
"Besides, if they were fundamenally immoral, whose morals is it that they try to violate? People have different views on what's moral."
Very true. If you were a satanist for example pursuing wealth and accumulating it are very moral activities. If you are christian or a budhist then they are not moral activities. If you are a moslem then you have no problems with accumulating wealth. It all depends on where you are coming from.
Capitalism most closely resembles satanism something I find facinating.
Of course. Corporations are by nature immoral. You can not expect them to take any action which is moral unless it leads directly to profit. Of course there are so few moral actions that lead to profit but that's another story.
I would love to get SF in here. Anything you can tell me about getting a decent deal would be awsome. You can send to the usa.com email address if you want.
Also we have a lot of windows only programmers and they get freaked by command line tools sometimes what are you using for CVS integration?
it is so expensive. was it worth it? did you evaluate anything else?
"slowly gaining popularity and many web sites have converted over to ASP.NE"
I think this is the problem. MS programmers have no choice. They have to use whatever MS tells them to. When COM came out everybody has to switch to OCXs and ditch the VBXs they have no choice.
I think MS is alarmed by how few of their developers are switching. By now they expected everybody who was useing VB to be using VB.NET and re-write all their applications in it. Apparently for the first time in history MS developers are actually showing some backbone and some are even switching to java.
In the end MS will win. MS windows developers have no choice but to switch sooner or later. I think Bill G was thinking it would be sooner. We all have to pay Bill eventually though.
The proper response is to reveal what gates is trying to do. To hold him responsible for his words and actions. If any harm comes to an open source developer we need to hold Bill Gates personally responsible.
Sounds like you were caught red handed. What did you do?
"Real has given away its basic player since the beginning so I don't see how they can make the claim that Microsoft undercut them. "
real sells it's server MS gives their away. In any other industry and for any other company this would be illegal. Several companies were fined by the US govt for doing the same thing. Bill Gates and MS are above the law so they get to do whatever they want as long as they continue to grease the palms of the politicians.
"When I installed AOL on my girlfriend's computer it forced me to install Real. Real then took over her file associations."
1) AOL is not a monopoly.
2) AOL is free
3) Installing AOL is a free choice.
4) Just because someone else does something evil it does not excuse your evilness.
You would use those in a production environment? and what's with the link to the california soccar association? What do they have to do with C#.
Did you read my whole message? The comment is not to insult me it's to incite other people to cause harm to me. Bill Gates knows full well that Americans hate communists and he wants Americans to hurt open source developers, perhaps by killing them, perhaps by jailing them. Words like communist and un-american were chosen carefully after much consultation with public relations firms and focus groups. They used those words because they were the ones most likely to incite violent action by the masses.
This technique has been used very successfully by pro life groups and Bill gates has learned from them. There have been numerous clinics bombed, doctors killed, and people wounded because priests called them murders and evil. Bill Gates is hoping for the same result.
My prediction is that the next word they will use is terrorist, at a minimum Bill gates will equate open source development with terrorism. That seems to be the "fighting word" of the day. He wants us in jail or dead and using words like communist and un-american are the best way to accomplish that short of actually hiring people to kill open source developers.
Well for one I am neither.
There is probably nothing wrong with being being a whore or a bitch either but I dare you to call your girlfriend/wife/mother one.
The MS execs used the terms communist and un-american on purpose. They did it because it causes a viceral reaction on the part of amerricans. It's an often used trick when you want violence perpetrated on your enemy. MS sees us as the enemy and it wants us in jail with the rest of the terrorists and/or wants to incite violence against us. Why else would it have used those terms? They could have just as easily said "open source developers are generous" but they said communist instead.
I believe the comparison was made because in both cases MS started "dumping" software for free thereby cutting off the other companies air supply. Since MS can not actually make a decent 1.0 product they dump and force people to install it. You can do that when you have a monopoly.
" Well.. I'm not an expert, but I can't think of any patentable technology in C#/."
Well not only are you not an expert but you are also profoundly ignorant. Have you not been keeping up with the absurd patent office issuing patents for silly things? As it turns out both winforms and ado.net have patented technology behind them. There are probably other patents that apply which MS will hold in reserve just in case mono actually gets done and gains traction.
If you think C# is great then good for you. I for one don't care for a language that lacks the ability to write gui apps or database apps. Both of those are absent unless you are using windows.
"Homebrewn FUD"
Apparently you have no idea what FUD means.
To quote they might be giants.
You can't shake hands with the devil and say you're only joking.
The idiot gets modded up to 5. The MS trolls are busy today. Praise .NET get modded up easy karma today folks.
BTW all you said can be done by python, perl, java, rebol, php, or any language. Ever hear of XML-RPC? SOAP? CORBA?.
Apparently you have not heard about glue yet.
There is a big difference.
No sun Exec ever called apache developers communist or un american. Sun is not actively trying to destroy open source. Sun is not lobbying congress to make open source illegal. Sun does not have calauses in their EULAS prohibiting people from developing open source products etc.
On a scale of 1 to 10 ms rates 9.9 on the old evil scale (10 being reserved for the devil) and sun ranks maybe 3 or 4.
Mono is nothing. It's in it's infancy and is at least three years away from being production quality. It probably will never get there due to MS patents.
.NET for next big acronym of the day.
By the time Mono is mature MS will have dropped