I agree, BUT "the law in individual [EU member] countries" is the European Union's law!
No, it is most certainly not. National laws are national laws and are only valid in a particular nation. There are also EU directives that are supposed to be valid EU-wide, but the actual implementation is a national responsibility so it can and will vary between the member states.
But since you are a Greek, it is understandable, that you don't have a clue about laws.
You could include the "Operate: yes Breaking the law in individual countries: no" part of the comment you quote, which was someone's reply to some other comment i made and in which i reply, plus read that other comment, and have a better understanding of the discussion, and even read in other comments i made the same point you just made... but i guess you just wanted to inform me that i am a Greek without a clue about the laws!
I agree, BUT "the law in individual [EU member] countries" is the European Union's law!
So any company can search for the EU member with the weakest national laws to get a foothold into Europe ?
Doesn't this mean that if any country legalizes pot or prostitution it's legal everywhere in the EU ?
Not exactly - for that to happen (in theory) it must be compatible with EU's law or at least directives (i.e., "proposals" that must become members' national law... someday!), but even if that is not the case then a member state can not forbit that company to operate in the country it is based (so, for services that can be accesed without physical presence of a EU citizen -e.g. Facebooks case- it is o.k.! IN THEORY!!!)
Please note: i don't understand it myself very well, PLUS neither most Europeans do, PLUS, NEITHER LAWYERS! I know 2 cases of Greek companies trying to operate in other EU member states, plus a non-Greek EU company trying to operate in Greece that are in EU courts because national laws forbite them to operate as they can IN THEORY.
Under the Data Protection Directive , collecting and processing the personal data of individuals is only legitimate in one of the following circumstances laid down by Article 7 of the Directive:
- Where the individual concerned, (the 'data subject'), has unambiguously given his or her consent, after being adequately informed; or
- if data processing is needed for a contract, for example, for billing, a job application or a loan request; or
- if processing is required by a legal obligation; or
- if processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interest of the data subject, for example, processing of medical data of a victim of a car accident; or
- if processing is necessary to perform tasks of public interests or tasks carried out by government, tax authorities, the police or other public bodies; or
- if the data controller or a third party has a legitimate interest in doing so, as long as this interest does not affect the interests of the data subject, or infringe on his or her fundamental rights, in particular the right to privacy. This provision establishes the need to strike a reasonable balance between the data controllers' business interests and the privacy of data subjects.
It shall be noted that Article 8 prohibits the processing of personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade-union membership, and the processing of data concerning health or sex life unless one of the exception criteria is met.
First of all: this is a directive (it is more than 2 decades old, and it become -some of its provisions- law in my country Greece just a couple of years ago), plus... read the the part in bold.
Operate: yes
Breaking the law in individual countries: no
I agree, BUT "the law in individual [EU member] countries" is the European Union's law!
Unless you can provide a link to what you're talking about and how it applies to the privacy laws in Belgium *and* the EU, this is a he says, she says situation.
Ha... if i could provide a link to make this clear, then much of the critisism of us Europeans about our Union would cease to exist...
No - it is EU policy that if a EU member country allows a company to operate in its country then ALL other EU member countries must allow that company to operate in their countries also... BUT all EU member countries must accept EU policies...
Huh, odd system.
Yes - even we Europeans (i am Greek) do not understand it... or at least i don't!
who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
The commission is particularly interested in the use that Facebook makes of information about users who are not logged in to Facebook, and may not even be members.
Facebook is essentially saying you don't HAVE to enter into an agreement with them in order for them to keep track of you.
That is something i don't like either - BUT, (at least) in EU (note: i am Greek), it is perfectly legal to collect general personal data about people without their consent (except of special cases, e.g., health data - you can even do that in some cases, but you have to provide a way for people to be informed for this and/or check their own data).
Thing is, Ireland decided more or less for itself whether FB respects Irish law or not. Belgium takes it a bit further and if it's said it's NOT OK on EU level, Ireland has to respect it as well.
No Sir, i don't think it's like that, since the EU rule is that If a company has its headquarters in a EU country, and that country says it is o.k. for that company to operate in that country, then ALL the other EU countries must allow the company to operate in their countries like it operates in the country that has its headquarters - the (European wing of) Facebook is based on Ireland (EU member), Ireland says it's o.k., for facebook... Belgium (also EU member) must respect Ireland's decision! note: i am Greek (EU citizen).
Hey, you forgot to tell us what country you're from! How are we supposed to respond to you if we don't know what country you're from?
You are right fellow "MechaStreisand" Slashdoter, i had to write that i am a Greek, i.e., EU citizen (as both Swedish and English people are), so i may have a point of view different than a Chinese for example.
A couple of hours ago you replied to a comment i made with this "Just leave this site, you stupid fucking moron. ", but now you want to respond to me - you have to decide what you want from me dear Sir!
I think people in Europe are not as blinkered and easily duped as the USAians or others. FB is very invasive and not welcome, it is part of the problem and not part of the solution (on privacy and digital rights).
Yea, we Europeans are really super extra great, not like Yankees... it is just that we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business, PLUS, we are stupid enough that we can't even decide what is the law!
Facebook has its European wing in Ireland (EU member), respecting the Irish law, which says it's o.k. for Facebook to operate in this way, but some Belgians (also EU member) say it may not be o.k. - and EU rules say that if Ireland says it's o.k., then it's o.k. for the whole EU! Stupid Yankees, they can't understand our super extra great European ways...
Wow... relax mister... i am Greek! I think i would vote for Republicans if i was a USA citizen, but my comment was made as a Greek/EU/"World" citizen as a reply for a comment about Sweden's justice - no need paint me as a "troll" because i made a comment different from "Assange is a Hero"!
No, it's not crazy, i understand your wish now, and it is rightfull - but you you already gave the answer with this "they just aggregating due to small amount of data". Those kind of data are collected by various sources (some may have been collected by indirect sources, e.g., USA army reports), the compilation is done with a "let's hope we would not have someone asking for the raw data" and the methodology is at least problematic (if you only know how these WHO data are collected and compiled...).
I am afraid that you would not find good quality historic data my friend!
Which are those established protocols for interviewing suspects when they are outside your jurisdiction? From what i know as a EU citizen (Greek), we had some cases where non-Greeks suspects were brought to Greek justice by the usual way: a Greek prosecutor asked some other EU country's judge to extradict the suspect (somethimes they agreed, sometimes not).
I am sorry, from what i understand you want "USA overweight/obesity historic data" (other than CDC compilations) - i know very well that they do exist (in various forms, both for male AND female *adults*), for example you should try searching US military sources if you have access (i am Greek, i can't help in that!).
And I'm sure they don't have a satisfactory answer for why they dug in their heels.
I guess that their (satisfactory enough for my) answer is that usually (i.e., almost always!) the suspect is brought to justice, not vice-versa - this is an exception, because this suspect is able to avoid the usual way of doing things by hiding in an embassy...
Well, weight training "adds weight" (muscle), but in most normal cases (other than low fat people who train very hard), i.e., overweight/obese people, it helps lowering their weight since the muscle they build burns fat even while not exercising (just by existing at rest).
I know. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. "We got hacked." "You don't say..."
For the first and last time:
ANYTHING on the internet is NOT secure
Use a local password manager.
I agree with you - but i must add, even if i may sound "paranoid", while i understand how convenient it is: don't use a (local) password manager... use your (brain's) memory!
The difference here is that he cannot charge over and over for the same stupid food. Not unless he gets it back from his patrons when they are finished with it. that alone makes this comparison void. A label or copyright holder does not have to work to reproduce or distribute the music every time it is played.
I did not tried to make an analogy of HIS stupid food with THEIR stupid music based on how many times someone must pay for them if they are the *"same"* BUT (for a bad analogy...) i am a Greek that always "complains" when i have to pay in a restaurant with this "but how many/much tomates, olives, feta, olive oil this Greek salad had, and how many times must a pay this retsina/ouzo bottle i ordered and drink?" - of course i know the answer, but.... i am Greek, i must do it every time!
The article writes "The disc jockey DJ brought into the eatery by his son also paid a fee to play tunes, Lavorato [the restaurant owner] believes." - but this Lavorato guy, the restaurant owner, also believes doing things his way... read this: “I don’t talk to the judges. I don’t talk to anybody. I just don’t want to talk to any of these people, because it’s illegal to try and take money from people,”
If someone makes money by playing THEIR music (even if it is NOT the *main* reason why customers are paying) he has to pay a fee - this restaurateur ask "how many times do they want to get paid for the stupid music?" but if it is just "stupid music" why he needs to play it in his business, especially when he says "This is not a nightclub. This is not a disco joint"? He also says "it’s illegal to try and take money from people,” (maybe it should be illegal to try and take money from customers for his stupid food?), plus “I’m in the restaurant business, not the entertainment business.” (well, if he is just in the "restaurant business" he should just cook and serve food? But he knows that in most cases the "restaurant business" IS ALSO an "entertainment business", so he must play THEIR stupid music while people eat HIS stupid food for which -both food AND music- *he* gets paid and must share some of the money...)
Slashdot Mirror
No, it is most certainly not. National laws are national laws and are only valid in a particular nation. There are also EU directives that are supposed to be valid EU-wide, but the actual implementation is a national responsibility so it can and will vary between the member states.
But since you are a Greek, it is understandable, that you don't have a clue about laws.
You could include the "Operate: yes Breaking the law in individual countries: no" part of the comment you quote, which was someone's reply to some other comment i made and in which i reply, plus read that other comment, and have a better understanding of the discussion, and even read in other comments i made the same point you just made... but i guess you just wanted to inform me that i am a Greek without a clue about the laws!
So any company can search for the EU member with the weakest national laws to get a foothold into Europe ? Doesn't this mean that if any country legalizes pot or prostitution it's legal everywhere in the EU ?
Not exactly - for that to happen (in theory) it must be compatible with EU's law or at least directives (i.e., "proposals" that must become members' national law... someday!), but even if that is not the case then a member state can not forbit that company to operate in the country it is based (so, for services that can be accesed without physical presence of a EU citizen -e.g. Facebooks case- it is o.k.! IN THEORY!!!)
Please note: i don't understand it myself very well, PLUS neither most Europeans do, PLUS, NEITHER LAWYERS! I know 2 cases of Greek companies trying to operate in other EU member states, plus a non-Greek EU company trying to operate in Greece that are in EU courts because national laws forbite them to operate as they can IN THEORY.
No, it is not !
Under the Data Protection Directive , collecting and processing the personal data of individuals is only legitimate in one of the following circumstances laid down by Article 7 of the Directive:
- Where the individual concerned, (the 'data subject'), has unambiguously given his or her consent, after being adequately informed; or - if data processing is needed for a contract, for example, for billing, a job application or a loan request; or - if processing is required by a legal obligation; or - if processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interest of the data subject, for example, processing of medical data of a victim of a car accident; or - if processing is necessary to perform tasks of public interests or tasks carried out by government, tax authorities, the police or other public bodies; or - if the data controller or a third party has a legitimate interest in doing so, as long as this interest does not affect the interests of the data subject, or infringe on his or her fundamental rights, in particular the right to privacy. This provision establishes the need to strike a reasonable balance between the data controllers' business interests and the privacy of data subjects.
It shall be noted that Article 8 prohibits the processing of personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs, trade-union membership, and the processing of data concerning health or sex life unless one of the exception criteria is met.
First of all: this is a directive (it is more than 2 decades old, and it become -some of its provisions- law in my country Greece just a couple of years ago), plus... read the the part in bold.
Please explain the difference between an EU directive and an EU law?
(PS: you can't google it)
Without googling it i will surely fail but i will try: a directive is a EU "proposal/decision" that must (in theory!!!) become national law.
Operate: yes Breaking the law in individual countries: no
I agree, BUT "the law in individual [EU member] countries" is the European Union's law!
Unless you can provide a link to what you're talking about and how it applies to the privacy laws in Belgium *and* the EU, this is a he says, she says situation.
Ha... if i could provide a link to make this clear, then much of the critisism of us Europeans about our Union would cease to exist...
Anyway, you can try this (good luck my friend!): http://ec.europa.eu/justice/ci...
So ireland can dictate eu policy?
No - it is EU policy that if a EU member country allows a company to operate in its country then ALL other EU member countries must allow that company to operate in their countries also... BUT all EU member countries must accept EU policies...
Huh, odd system.
Yes - even we Europeans (i am Greek) do not understand it... or at least i don't!
Enjoy while it lasts Zorba...
EU != EUROzone
who can't enter in to an agreement with a business
The commission is particularly interested in the use that Facebook makes of information about users who are not logged in to Facebook, and may not even be members.
Facebook is essentially saying you don't HAVE to enter into an agreement with them in order for them to keep track of you.
That is something i don't like either - BUT, (at least) in EU (note: i am Greek), it is perfectly legal to collect general personal data about people without their consent (except of special cases, e.g., health data - you can even do that in some cases, but you have to provide a way for people to be informed for this and/or check their own data).
Thing is, Ireland decided more or less for itself whether FB respects Irish law or not. Belgium takes it a bit further and if it's said it's NOT OK on EU level, Ireland has to respect it as well.
No Sir, i don't think it's like that, since the EU rule is that If a company has its headquarters in a EU country, and that country says it is o.k. for that company to operate in that country, then ALL the other EU countries must allow the company to operate in their countries like it operates in the country that has its headquarters - the (European wing of) Facebook is based on Ireland (EU member), Ireland says it's o.k., for facebook... Belgium (also EU member) must respect Ireland's decision!
note: i am Greek (EU citizen).
Hey, you forgot to tell us what country you're from! How are we supposed to respond to you if we don't know what country you're from?
You are right fellow "MechaStreisand" Slashdoter, i had to write that i am a Greek, i.e., EU citizen (as both Swedish and English people are), so i may have a point of view different than a Chinese for example.
A couple of hours ago you replied to a comment i made with this "Just leave this site, you stupid fucking moron. " , but now you want to respond to me - you have to decide what you want from me dear Sir!
I think people in Europe are not as blinkered and easily duped as the USAians or others. FB is very invasive and not welcome, it is part of the problem and not part of the solution (on privacy and digital rights).
Yea, we Europeans are really super extra great, not like Yankees... it is just that we like our goverments to treat us like babies who can't enter in to an agreement with a business, PLUS, we are stupid enough that we can't even decide what is the law!
Facebook has its European wing in Ireland (EU member), respecting the Irish law, which says it's o.k. for Facebook to operate in this way, but some Belgians (also EU member) say it may not be o.k. - and EU rules say that if Ireland says it's o.k., then it's o.k. for the whole EU! Stupid Yankees, they can't understand our super extra great European ways...
Wow... relax mister... i am Greek! I think i would vote for Republicans if i was a USA citizen, but my comment was made as a Greek/EU/"World" citizen as a reply for a comment about Sweden's justice - no need paint me as a "troll" because i made a comment different from "Assange is a Hero"!
I am afraid that you would not find good quality historic data my friend!
Which are those established protocols for interviewing suspects when they are outside your jurisdiction? From what i know as a EU citizen (Greek), we had some cases where non-Greeks suspects were brought to Greek justice by the usual way: a Greek prosecutor asked some other EU country's judge to extradict the suspect (somethimes they agreed, sometimes not).
I am sorry, from what i understand you want "USA overweight/obesity historic data" (other than CDC compilations) - i know very well that they do exist (in various forms, both for male AND female *adults*), for example you should try searching US military sources if you have access (i am Greek, i can't help in that!).
And I'm sure they don't have a satisfactory answer for why they dug in their heels.
I guess that their (satisfactory enough for my) answer is that usually (i.e., almost always!) the suspect is brought to justice, not vice-versa - this is an exception, because this suspect is able to avoid the usual way of doing things by hiding in an embassy...
For USA specifically try this (no historic data i am afraid, but you can have them by state and some other critiria), plus this nice "Overweight and Obesity (BMI) - 2013" by state table
Just leave this site, you stupid fucking moron.
Make me leave...
But i understand that you cannot understand that "this site" welcomes any "stupid fucking moron"!
Well, weight training "adds weight" (muscle), but in most normal cases (other than low fat people who train very hard), i.e., overweight/obese people, it helps lowering their weight since the muscle they build burns fat even while not exercising (just by existing at rest).
World Health Organization (WHO) global data by country
I know. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. "We got hacked." "You don't say ..."
For the first and last time:
ANYTHING on the internet is NOT secure
Use a local password manager.
I agree with you - but i must add, even if i may sound "paranoid", while i understand how convenient it is: don't use a (local) password manager... use your (brain's) memory!
The difference here is that he cannot charge over and over for the same stupid food. Not unless he gets it back from his patrons when they are finished with it. that alone makes this comparison void. A label or copyright holder does not have to work to reproduce or distribute the music every time it is played.
I did not tried to make an analogy of HIS stupid food with THEIR stupid music based on how many times someone must pay for them if they are the *"same"* BUT (for a bad analogy...) i am a Greek that always "complains" when i have to pay in a restaurant with this "but how many/much tomates, olives, feta, olive oil this Greek salad had, and how many times must a pay this retsina/ouzo bottle i ordered and drink?" - of course i know the answer, but.... i am Greek, i must do it every time!
I just made a comment about what is the reality, and what restaurant owner "believes" or pretends to believe...
The article writes "The disc jockey DJ brought into the eatery by his son also paid a fee to play tunes, Lavorato [the restaurant owner] believes." - but this Lavorato guy, the restaurant owner, also believes doing things his way... read this: “I don’t talk to the judges. I don’t talk to anybody. I just don’t want to talk to any of these people, because it’s illegal to try and take money from people,”
If someone makes money by playing THEIR music (even if it is NOT the *main* reason why customers are paying) he has to pay a fee - this restaurateur ask "how many times do they want to get paid for the stupid music?" but if it is just "stupid music" why he needs to play it in his business, especially when he says "This is not a nightclub. This is not a disco joint"? He also says "it’s illegal to try and take money from people,” (maybe it should be illegal to try and take money from customers for his stupid food?), plus “I’m in the restaurant business, not the entertainment business.” (well, if he is just in the "restaurant business" he should just cook and serve food? But he knows that in most cases the "restaurant business" IS ALSO an "entertainment business", so he must play THEIR stupid music while people eat HIS stupid food for which -both food AND music- *he* gets paid and must share some of the money...)