From the article: "Although 43% said the SP2 installation had gone without a hitch, 49% of those contributing had problems ranging from minor to severe. A few contributors said they had to completely rebuild a system before they could get the update to work."
equivilent to saying . 43% went perfectly and the other 49% had problems varying from some minor trouble to getting shot in the face. tells us nothing. Most people had semi-broken systems to begin with so "rebuilding" xp to put the service pack isn't a huge deal. they would have had to eventually anyway.
Not to mention that, while the number of new jobs created was pretty small, at least it was positive. Or that unemployment fell from 5.6% to 5.5. That's pretty low to be called 'bad.'
If it was outpaced by the number of "new" entrants into the market, then it was negative growth wise. As it's sorta like inflation. You must have at leats that many new jobs only because these extra people have created new demand.
FF is more along the lines of "roleplaying" then wizadry 8 or ultima. FF is a role playing game, morrowind is more of a "exploit finding" game, or "how many ways I can mess with NPX's" game.
Don't act so snotty. A RPG is a role playing game, and it also involves stats and choices. FF measures up. Your choices are just nto signigifcant tot he story, but arguably in Morrowind your choices are meaningless too.
In essence, they all derive from the D&D idea, just think of FF as a DM thats a good story teller but makes you stict to the script, Morrowind is a DM that can't tell stories but is great at letting you customize your character and fallout is a DM with too much time on his hands.
Still, I wish a game with hyped-up offense to get realistic scores and a faster-than-normal clock would at least have a cheat code so that the clock shows 5 minutes "real time" instead of 15 minutes of "game time"...
Look at hockey, it's growth has stopped. . Why? Because defence and the trap have taken over the game. Baseball has had it audience decline so has football. Oddly basketball hasn't diminished, but has grown in popularity because it's stresses flash and offence. Those sell the game to todays audience.
on a side note: Wanna see 10 min vanish like 10s, start playing Counter Strike. I swaer A quiet 1/2 hour of the game is really 4h in real time.
As an adult my expenditure on gaming has grown by several orders of magnitude. I fork out money for computer hardware and software that no kid would spend.
I agree, I have bought so many games latly that I have 5 good title, still shrink wrapped on my desk begging me to play them after I finish the next project... and mow the lawn... and do the laundry... and stop playing diablo2/Counterstrike/starcraft.
What on gods green earth are you talking about. Prince of persia has one of the better camera systems, and it's pussle/death traps tend to be logical and easy. I finished the game in my first run... dying maybe 20 times... then rewinding with the sand or continues from 30s before. It's downright inspired lack of annoyances makes it a good game. Want to know a horribly designed game of repitition and endless death, play pac man.
Alright, I'm sorry I miscontrued your point. However misogynistic has nothign to do with it. It's simply the nature of the disease. Male->female transmission is easier then female -> male transmission.
Next time, just ssh into their box and change things for them. No need for you or the user to leave their seat. Can't do that with M$? Something about a lack of human readable text configuration, a registry, and bandwith intense GUI crap? Oh well, it sucks to be you.
baring 3rd part vnc's theres always remote desktop. On every version of xp pro and win 2000. Or remote asistances of every version of xp/2000/nt.
.... right... give it up. Never said anything about abstinence being preferable - I think it's a stupid and unrealistic policy. So stop with the straw-man argument.
Condoms are not 100% effective. Saying otherwise is a lie, also. "You pays your money, and you takes your chances."
Well the. I believed that was your point. However, it's not 100%. But nothing is. IT's still FUD. It's 99.999% when you use them right. and the alternative is not to put one on... So if you lead a life where you have multiple sec partners then hey why not put a jimmy hat on. those stats are ussually provided by pro-abstinence groups and they do emcompass misuse and not just material failure. So saying oooh you might gets aids even if you use them is FUD. Use them right, and generally quality is an issue but not as much. Remember then 1 HIV particle gettign through a condom, getting into a break in the skin/mucous membrane will not normally cause HIV/AIDS. There is a certain critical mass of catagion require before you get it. It numbers vary depending on the individual and it's 2-3 times harder for a guy to get it.
from a mans point of view, it's a third of that value. Transmission of HIV from a woman to a man is only 33% as high as a man to a woman. Don't be a scare monger. Statistically 95% will stone aids in it's tracks, whiel abstinence just sweeps it all under the rug. I know a few girls, who have to do that for a living, their in 3rd world countries and their supporting their remaining family. One is the eldest and takes care of 4 siblings. Tell her abstinence is the way and she'll tell you to fuck off. Failure rate also accounts for messing up using condomes, not just their ineffectiveness. When used properly all condoms provide protection. Even the cheapest. the 5% failure rate all includes those who put it on backwards (and thus mess it up), those who get an infection through cuts else where in that region, and those who rip it. So don't go spreading your FUD chances are I know more about sec then you.
Re:Begin the Frank Herbert references now...
on
Just Add, Umm, Water
·
· Score: 1
It's still near future tech. The basics are there just miniturization and refinement. A body motion power pump, exstremly good micro filters, and various polymer materials that which liquid away fromt he skin... and int he book they still describe it as tasting really really bad.
It's like trusting a condom to prevent AIDS - it's NOT 100% effective. Theory and practice are unfortunately 2 different things.
Generally, condoms are 99.999 protection. I have some very very very very permiscous black friends and though they occasionally get crabs, they get nothing else. So this seems like FUD. I myself have lead a umm.. somewhat sordid life. And my trusy jimmy hats have kept me std free.
You know how the more fuel a rocket has, the more fuel it needs, due to the additional weight of that fuel? Understand how most of the fuel is ultimately spent in complete waste, as it's just carrying itself?
Kind of the same with water. Water is HEAVY -- seven pounds a gallon. We blow quite a bit of it just dragging it around -- and don't worry, it provides all of no calories; it's useful as a catalyst and a cooler, but not as a fuel. Almost all the water we consume is just excreted back out, pretty clean too (urine is one of the purer substances to leave the body). It's be pretty useful to be able to fully filter the stuff and reintroduce it to our food. Perfectly efficient, no, but would you rather lug around 50 pounds of water?
In geek terms, I'm still waiting for my still suit.
Your piss is generally not as salty as sea water, the dehydratign effect isn't as severe, it's at best a break even scenario, except your not as thirsy psychologically.
I dunno, I didn't really think TSW was that terrible, myself. Obviously 'terrible' was how it did at the box office, but the movie itself wasn't bad. The story was too spiritual for the North American market to really accept it, and I think that's what killed it. If they had released it in Japan (did they?) I suspect it would've done much better over there, but they're not a big enough market to make a dent.
a few corrections. s/spiritual/vacuous/ s/Japan/Anywhe re/ s/better/worse/
To write ATI off so easily would be rather silly. Do you think that those silly Canucks are honestly sitting around, twiddling their thumbs and raking in the cash? ATI chose to extend their existing architecture simply because it was so good the first time around. Nvidia couldn't really do that with the FX series because they, well, sucked. ATI just won a bunch of OEM PCIexpress design wins, and they hold the XBOX and Nintendo console contracts. I think they know more about their business than you do.
This is why I'm not too optimistic about ATI. ATI and nVidia put 3 teams on designing the next generation. One does the high end, ones does the next high end, and one does the one afte that. RO so I'm lead to beleive. Witht he contracts to Nintendo and MS they now have to make 2 more teams, diluting the talent in their core design teams. So they might get smacked liek nVidia did when it made the chips for the xbox, their offering for that generations were piss poor.
ATI is winning, by a lot more than benchmarks indicate. I think NVidia kept too many of the 3Dfx people, they are starting to stink of death. They need a new, more power efficient and transistor efficient design but instead they work on supid things like bringing back SLI. I've been a fan of NVidia since the days of the Riva 128 and the first TNT. Back then they were mopping up the mid-high range with simple cards that were much more OEM friendly than 3Dfx's although slightly slower. Now NVidia is positioning itself in the difficult, obtrusive ultra-high end space where 3Dfx was when it died. Let's hope they change course before it's too late.
It has high end cards, and mid range and low end cards. Theres a market for all of them, and essentiall ATI and nVidia are neck and neck in most of the markets. I curretly have a aTI card but the 6800 peaked my interest, a generation form now when the 6800 is a reasonable price, and has lower heat and power compsumption profile, I'll might get one depending on how the x800 bench marks at the same price level. I think it's great that there are 2 viable competitors on the market and hope nVidia and ATI keep doign well.
10 fps with amazing color and detail vs 30 fps with slightly worse fo both.... I'd go 30 fps. Not if it's 66 fps of great color and detail or 80 fps of slightly worse, I'd go with the second. It's all very sitational. And as for compressed vs umcompressed camera output, a lossy compression liek jpeg is bad for a proffessional photog but for me it's fine. I'm only make small prints and putting them on a website so 3.2 mpixel 1meg jpegs are fine. For you it would be insufficient.
I just wish they weren't still selling video cards for $500+ for the top of the line. I remember when CPUs would top a grand for the latest and greatest, but now you can get that for a third of that.
Then buy middle of the line and replace mroe often. A Radeon 9600 xt should run HL2 and Doom3 fine, if only on medium settings. It won't overheat, and doesn't need a new power supply and liquid nitrogen cooling. Now 6 months down the road when the nvidia 6000 is 200$ and the ati x800 is 200, upgrade again and run everythign with everythign turned on. You've only spend 400 over all (cnd) and your still very close to the top of the line. Theres the margine between economy and performance that has a card that is a huge leap beyond the cheap cards but is priced only marginally more. My 9600 xt fit that criteria. But at that level. You can upgrade 2-3 times as often and be almost top of the line in perpetium.
The link has no proofs just pithy sayings. The article Nothing Can Move in Spacetime is a simple statement of fact for our system, not the natural system. Our derrivative and integral system is a man made construct and thus far is whole consistant with observations. However things on a micro scopic/ macro scopic, Low Kenetic energy events and exstremly high kenetic energy events exhibit odd behavior and do not strictly conform to the current models.
The website takes a artificial system (math) and uses it as if it were a real system. Just because 1+1 = 2 does not mean 1 proton + 1 proton = 2 proton. They may collide and we may get many many many sub atomic particles. Math is a description of real events, not events in themselves.
I don't lean one way or another. IT may be possible, it may not. however the link your provided doesn't give any "proof" either.
As for time. Time may be the advancement of all matter in our percieved universe advancing on one axis of a multi-(5 -> 11 or more)-axis continer universe, and our inability to regress back where we came from may be due to things other then the fact that string theory is wrong and there are only 3 dimensions. It may be there are only 3 and that time dialation is only a side effect of somethign else. However to proclaim one is impossible without proof is not scientific.
Time travel is not currently possible or plausibel with any technology or natural event we've observed. However current physics models do not all bar the possibility. Until we have more information, we cannot say either way.
Halliburton, don't forget bribing corrupt foreign governments and the forceful relocation of villages and the rumored assasinations. MS still is pretty low on the evil scale. Tehir nto holding back anything. What part of computing are they holding back?
Notice that junior donates to charity. He'll problbly will a large sum away when he dies. His gene line could all live like Paris hilton until sometime in 9000.
Actually there are some important differences. Democrats don't lie more because they are more evil than the Republicans, they lie because they can. They can because they control the mass media more completely than BillG controls the desktop. "Bush Lied, kids died." Well the reports from both the Senate Intelligence Committee (unamious vote) and the 9/11 Commission (final release pending, leaks everywhere is you care to Google) are out and Bush didn't lie, but Joseph Wilson unquestionably did lie and Richard Clarke doesn't come off very well either. You probably never heard about it, but go read the details you won't see reported in a mainstream newscast or paper.
Democrats knew he was probably lying when they used him to attack Bush, but they knew they could get away with it and they appear to have been correct. They do this on most issues, lie outragously, knowing that even if they are caught dead to rights the press will cover their butts. People like myself who actually follow politics read about the lies but then we knew Wilson was probably lying when he first opened his partisan piehole. He isn't a professional and didn't even lie very convincingly.
Republicans aren't above lying, but they have to be very careful to avoid being caught at it which means they do a lot less of it.
Where as the republicans lie solely because their evil. From the view of just about everybody in the world it seems the US media bat for the republicans not the democrats and this is also not universily true, only true of several major media outlets (CNN/Fox news ect..).
As for Bush not lying, he may have honestly beleived what he said (doubtful) but the link of Osama to Saddam is like stating Sharon is having a torrid relationship with Arrafat. the only difference is that neither sharon or arrafat would shoot each other while osama and saddam would gladly shoot each other.
Slashdot Mirror
From the article: "Although 43% said the SP2 installation had gone without a hitch, 49% of those contributing had problems ranging from minor to severe. A few contributors said they had to completely rebuild a system before they could get the update to work."
equivilent to saying . 43% went perfectly and the other 49% had problems varying from some minor trouble to getting shot in the face. tells us nothing. Most people had semi-broken systems to begin with so "rebuilding" xp to put the service pack isn't a huge deal. they would have had to eventually anyway.
Not to mention that, while the number of new jobs created was pretty small, at least it was positive. Or that unemployment fell from 5.6% to 5.5. That's pretty low to be called 'bad.'
If it was outpaced by the number of "new" entrants into the market, then it was negative growth wise. As it's sorta like inflation. You must have at leats that many new jobs only because these extra people have created new demand.
FF is more along the lines of "roleplaying" then wizadry 8 or ultima. FF is a role playing game, morrowind is more of a "exploit finding" game, or "how many ways I can mess with NPX's" game.
Don't act so snotty. A RPG is a role playing game, and it also involves stats and choices. FF measures up. Your choices are just nto signigifcant tot he story, but arguably in Morrowind your choices are meaningless too.
In essence, they all derive from the D&D idea, just think of FF as a DM thats a good story teller but makes you stict to the script, Morrowind is a DM that can't tell stories but is great at letting you customize your character and fallout is a DM with too much time on his hands.
Still, I wish a game with hyped-up offense to get realistic scores and a faster-than-normal clock would at least have a cheat code so that the clock shows 5 minutes "real time" instead of 15 minutes of "game time"...
Look at hockey, it's growth has stopped. . Why? Because defence and the trap have taken over the game. Baseball has had it audience decline so has football. Oddly basketball hasn't diminished, but has grown in popularity because it's stresses flash and offence. Those sell the game to todays audience.
on a side note: Wanna see 10 min vanish like 10s, start playing Counter Strike. I swaer A quiet 1/2 hour of the game is really 4h in real time.
As an adult my expenditure on gaming has grown by several orders of magnitude. I fork out money for computer hardware and software that no kid would spend.
I agree, I have bought so many games latly that I have 5 good title, still shrink wrapped on my desk begging me to play them after I finish the next project... and mow the lawn... and do the laundry... and stop playing diablo2/Counterstrike/starcraft.
What on gods green earth are you talking about. Prince of persia has one of the better camera systems, and it's pussle/death traps tend to be logical and easy. I finished the game in my first run... dying maybe 20 times... then rewinding with the sand or continues from 30s before. It's downright inspired lack of annoyances makes it a good game. Want to know a horribly designed game of repitition and endless death, play pac man.
Alright, I'm sorry I miscontrued your point. However misogynistic has nothign to do with it. It's simply the nature of the disease. Male->female transmission is easier then female -> male transmission.
Next time, just ssh into their box and change things for them. No need for you or the user to leave their seat. Can't do that with M$? Something about a lack of human readable text configuration, a registry, and bandwith intense GUI crap? Oh well, it sucks to be you.
baring 3rd part vnc's theres always remote desktop. On every version of xp pro and win 2000. Or remote asistances of every version of xp/2000/nt.
.... right ... give it up.
Never said anything about abstinence being preferable - I think it's a stupid and unrealistic policy. So stop with the straw-man argument.
Condoms are not 100% effective. Saying otherwise is a lie, also. "You pays your money, and you takes your chances."
Well the. I believed that was your point. However, it's not 100%. But nothing is. IT's still FUD. It's 99.999% when you use them right. and the alternative is not to put one on... So if you lead a life where you have multiple sec partners then hey why not put a jimmy hat on. those stats are ussually provided by pro-abstinence groups and they do emcompass misuse and not just material failure. So saying oooh you might gets aids even if you use them is FUD. Use them right, and generally quality is an issue but not as much. Remember then 1 HIV particle gettign through a condom, getting into a break in the skin/mucous membrane will not normally cause HIV/AIDS. There is a certain critical mass of catagion require before you get it. It numbers vary depending on the individual and it's 2-3 times harder for a guy to get it.
And how did you find this out?!?
2.5 years of genetics/biology/chemistry.
from a mans point of view, it's a third of that value. Transmission of HIV from a woman to a man is only 33% as high as a man to a woman. Don't be a scare monger. Statistically 95% will stone aids in it's tracks, whiel abstinence just sweeps it all under the rug. I know a few girls, who have to do that for a living, their in 3rd world countries and their supporting their remaining family. One is the eldest and takes care of 4 siblings. Tell her abstinence is the way and she'll tell you to fuck off. Failure rate also accounts for messing up using condomes, not just their ineffectiveness. When used properly all condoms provide protection. Even the cheapest. the 5% failure rate all includes those who put it on backwards (and thus mess it up), those who get an infection through cuts else where in that region, and those who rip it. So don't go spreading your FUD chances are I know more about sec then you.
It's still near future tech. The basics are there just miniturization and refinement. A body motion power pump, exstremly good micro filters, and various polymer materials that which liquid away fromt he skin... and int he book they still describe it as tasting really really bad.
It's like trusting a condom to prevent AIDS - it's NOT 100% effective. Theory and practice are unfortunately 2 different things.
Generally, condoms are 99.999 protection. I have some very very very very permiscous black friends and though they occasionally get crabs, they get nothing else. So this seems like FUD. I myself have lead a umm.. somewhat sordid life. And my trusy jimmy hats have kept me std free.
Here, lets talk in some geek terms.
You know how the more fuel a rocket has, the more fuel it needs, due to the additional weight of that fuel? Understand how most of the fuel is ultimately spent in complete waste, as it's just carrying itself?
Kind of the same with water. Water is HEAVY -- seven pounds a gallon. We blow quite a bit of it just dragging it around -- and don't worry, it provides all of no calories; it's useful as a catalyst and a cooler, but not as a fuel. Almost all the water we consume is just excreted back out, pretty clean too (urine is one of the purer substances to leave the body). It's be pretty useful to be able to fully filter the stuff and reintroduce it to our food. Perfectly efficient, no, but would you rather lug around 50 pounds of water?
In geek terms, I'm still waiting for my still suit.
Your piss is generally not as salty as sea water, the dehydratign effect isn't as severe, it's at best a break even scenario, except your not as thirsy psychologically.
The point is, the food neutralizes much fo the bad stuff in water, thus it provides a convienient way to get yoru water without carryign a water kit.
I dunno, I didn't really think TSW was that terrible, myself. Obviously 'terrible' was how it did at the box office, but the movie itself wasn't bad. The story was too spiritual for the North American market to really accept it, and I think that's what killed it. If they had released it in Japan (did they?) I suspect it would've done much better over there, but they're not a big enough market to make a dent.
e re/
a few corrections.
s/spiritual/vacuous/
s/Japan/Anywh
s/better/worse/
To write ATI off so easily would be rather silly. Do you think that those silly Canucks are honestly sitting around, twiddling their thumbs and raking in the cash? ATI chose to extend their existing architecture simply because it was so good the first time around. Nvidia couldn't really do that with the FX series because they, well, sucked. ATI just won a bunch of OEM PCIexpress design wins, and they hold the XBOX and Nintendo console contracts. I think they know more about their business than you do.
This is why I'm not too optimistic about ATI. ATI and nVidia put 3 teams on designing the next generation. One does the high end, ones does the next high end, and one does the one afte that. RO so I'm lead to beleive. Witht he contracts to Nintendo and MS they now have to make 2 more teams, diluting the talent in their core design teams. So they might get smacked liek nVidia did when it made the chips for the xbox, their offering for that generations were piss poor.
ATI is winning, by a lot more than benchmarks indicate. I think NVidia kept too many of the 3Dfx people, they are starting to stink of death. They need a new, more power efficient and transistor efficient design but instead they work on supid things like bringing back SLI. I've been a fan of NVidia since the days of the Riva 128 and the first TNT. Back then they were mopping up the mid-high range with simple cards that were much more OEM friendly than 3Dfx's although slightly slower. Now NVidia is positioning itself in the difficult, obtrusive ultra-high end space where 3Dfx was when it died. Let's hope they change course before it's too late.
It has high end cards, and mid range and low end cards. Theres a market for all of them, and essentiall ATI and nVidia are neck and neck in most of the markets. I curretly have a aTI card but the 6800 peaked my interest, a generation form now when the 6800 is a reasonable price, and has lower heat and power compsumption profile, I'll might get one depending on how the x800 bench marks at the same price level. I think it's great that there are 2 viable competitors on the market and hope nVidia and ATI keep doign well.
10 fps with amazing color and detail vs 30 fps with slightly worse fo both.... I'd go 30 fps. Not if it's 66 fps of great color and detail or 80 fps of slightly worse, I'd go with the second. It's all very sitational. And as for compressed vs umcompressed camera output, a lossy compression liek jpeg is bad for a proffessional photog but for me it's fine. I'm only make small prints and putting them on a website so 3.2 mpixel 1meg jpegs are fine. For you it would be insufficient.
I just wish they weren't still selling video cards for $500+ for the top of the line. I remember when CPUs would top a grand for the latest and greatest, but now you can get that for a third of that.
Then buy middle of the line and replace mroe often. A Radeon 9600 xt should run HL2 and Doom3 fine, if only on medium settings. It won't overheat, and doesn't need a new power supply and liquid nitrogen cooling. Now 6 months down the road when the nvidia 6000 is 200$ and the ati x800 is 200, upgrade again and run everythign with everythign turned on. You've only spend 400 over all (cnd) and your still very close to the top of the line. Theres the margine between economy and performance that has a card that is a huge leap beyond the cheap cards but is priced only marginally more. My 9600 xt fit that criteria. But at that level. You can upgrade 2-3 times as often and be almost top of the line in perpetium.
The link has no proofs just pithy sayings. The article Nothing Can Move in Spacetime is a simple statement of fact for our system, not the natural system. Our derrivative and integral system is a man made construct and thus far is whole consistant with observations. However things on a micro scopic/ macro scopic, Low Kenetic energy events and exstremly high kenetic energy events exhibit odd behavior and do not strictly conform to the current models.
The website takes a artificial system (math) and uses it as if it were a real system. Just because 1+1 = 2 does not mean 1 proton + 1 proton = 2 proton. They may collide and we may get many many many sub atomic particles. Math is a description of real events, not events in themselves.
I don't lean one way or another. IT may be possible, it may not. however the link your provided doesn't give any "proof" either.
As for time. Time may be the advancement of all matter in our percieved universe advancing on one axis of a multi-(5 -> 11 or more)-axis continer universe, and our inability to regress back where we came from may be due to things other then the fact that string theory is wrong and there are only 3 dimensions. It may be there are only 3 and that time dialation is only a side effect of somethign else. However to proclaim one is impossible without proof is not scientific.
Time travel is not currently possible or plausibel with any technology or natural event we've observed. However current physics models do not all bar the possibility. Until we have more information, we cannot say either way.
Halliburton, don't forget bribing corrupt foreign governments and the forceful relocation of villages and the rumored assasinations. MS still is pretty low on the evil scale. Tehir nto holding back anything. What part of computing are they holding back?
Notice that junior donates to charity. He'll problbly will a large sum away when he dies. His gene line could all live like Paris hilton until sometime in 9000.
Actually there are some important differences. Democrats don't lie more because they are more evil than the Republicans, they lie because they can. They can because they control the mass media more completely than BillG controls the desktop. "Bush Lied, kids died." Well the reports from both the Senate Intelligence Committee (unamious vote) and the 9/11 Commission (final release pending, leaks everywhere is you care to Google) are out and Bush didn't lie, but Joseph Wilson unquestionably did lie and Richard Clarke doesn't come off very well either. You probably never heard about it, but go read the details you won't see reported in a mainstream newscast or paper.
r n2 0040715.shtml
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/
Democrats knew he was probably lying when they used him to attack Bush, but they knew they could get away with it and they appear to have been correct. They do this on most issues, lie outragously, knowing that even if they are caught dead to rights the press will cover their butts. People like myself who actually follow politics read about the lies but then we knew Wilson was probably lying when he first opened his partisan piehole. He isn't a professional and didn't even lie very convincingly.
Republicans aren't above lying, but they have to be very careful to avoid being caught at it which means they do a lot less of it.
Where as the republicans lie solely because their evil.
From the view of just about everybody in the world it seems the US media bat for the republicans not the democrats and this is also not universily true, only true of several major media outlets (CNN/Fox news ect..).
As for Bush not lying, he may have honestly beleived what he said (doubtful) but the link of Osama to Saddam is like stating Sharon is having a torrid relationship with Arrafat. the only difference is that neither sharon or arrafat would shoot each other while osama and saddam would gladly shoot each other.