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Are You Annoying?
cweditor writes "This Computerworld article looks at some habits of people in general and IT pros in particular that can drive co-workers crazy."
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Yes.
Next slashdot article please.
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
The only okay Jimmy Fallon character, because his own annoyingness comes through. But seriously, this article is all about IT people being annoying, when users really can't be just if not more annoying to IT people.
Soon people stop coming to you and asking you things, and you end up without a job.
That's the whole point!
when I declared that every other Tuesday was pants-optional day. Needless to say, very few ever join me.
ARRRRGGHHHHH, I'm surrounded by mail clipper noise.
One thing IT geeks need to remember is that if a user is bothering us, something in the system is broken. Even if it's the user that's malfunctioning, they're still a part of the system. They can be repaired via retraining and also replaced via human resouce departments.
I answer questions I know the answer to with "what?", then I answer it. Seems to piss lots of people off. =\
Yes.
I mean, its simple. All you have to do is click on use advanced options radio button, and then click the change advanced settings. No, the little circle first, right. Then the advanced button, and select check hosts file and check Internet Explorer preferences, then click on Next and Continue and, grrr. MOOOVE.
The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
Are You Annoying?
Irritating behaviors not only annoy your co-workers, but they can also compromise your effectiveness and even derail your career.
News Story by Alan S. Horowitz
JULY 23, 2004 (COMPUTERWORLD) - Do you tell IT insider jokes that users don't understand? Do you sprinkle technical jargon through discussions with business people? Do you find that you've usually got the right answer to any problem and you let everyone know it? If so, you may be something you didn't think you were: annoying.
Everyone's annoying some of the time, says Kimberly Alyn, a corporate trainer and co-author of Annoying People and Why You're One of Them (Llumina Press, 2003). But annoying behavior can have serious consequences in IT, where it can compromise your effectiveness, wreak havoc with projects and even derail your career.
Annoying behaviors are tricky because what annoys one person may sail by another. "You can say the same thing the same way to two people, and one person will say, 'Damn, that's annoying,' and the other person will not think anything of it," says Dan Bent, CIO at Benefit Systems Inc. in Indianapolis, an administrative services provider to health care plans.
But annoying behavior in IT sends ripples through the whole business. Gary Langer, associate vice president for academic technology at Chicago's Roosevelt University, explains that when IT support people are annoying, "people lose confidence, and they just give up. They stop asking questions."
Bent concurs. "You're always communicating with other people, and if you're annoying them, it reduces the likelihood your message will get across," he says.
Projects may also suffer. Jackie Palmer, a senior product manager at CRM software maker E.piphany Inc. in San Mateo, Calif., tells of participating at a meeting for a large insurance company that involved implementing process change. "The only way to do it is get [users] to buy in themselves," says Palmer. But a consultant at the meeting began to dictate what would happen. "The users became very combative," she recalls. It took several weeks of meetings to resolve the issues, and the project fell behind schedule.
If you think that you can't be annoying because you often work alone, think again. You still deal with people for support, advice and information, as well as to get a promotion, notes Gini Graham Scott, author of A Survival Guide for Working With Humans (Amacom, 2004).
For the worst offenders, the consequences of being annoying are potentially dire.
"Say someone comes to you and asks you a question today, and they find you annoying," says Bent. "Maybe the next time, they'll ask someone else. Soon people stop coming to you and asking you things, and you end up without a job."
The IT Niche
IT has its own annoying quirks. Langer says some IT people label users as neophytes and then blame them for any difficulties. "The user insists their e-mail doesn't work, and the IT person says, 'My e-mail works perfectly,' and assumes the user is the problem. Users really find this annoying," he says.
Some IT people are so sure they know what the problem is that they don't even listen to the user, says Katherine Spencer Lee, executive director at IT staffing firm Robert Half Technology in Menlo Park, Calif.
IT people expect users to always know what they want, and they can get exasperated when they don't. "Business people have a right to change their minds, because the business changes," says Ellen Gottesdiener, principal consultant at EBG Consulting in Carmel, Ind.
And IT folks often require the "right" decision, says Gerry McCartney, CIO at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School in Philadelphia. "[They] have diffic
Me, annoying? Of course not!
I take all my clues for dealing with people from reknown experts such as the BOFH!
The article basically says "IT people can be annoying, and it can endanger your personal or work relationships. Never fear though, anything you do may or may not be annoying depending on who you talk to, so, for the sake of your job and your life, damit, stop being annoying!"
Whats so special about annoying IT people? arent there plenty of annoying people in any given profession?
The CB App. What's your 20?
Jon Katz reply to this one :) /duck
I note that their email isn't working, and my email server is up, and get annoyed when I insist that something on their machine is malfunctioning? I'd hate to see how pissed off they get when they go to a mechanic about car trouble..
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
THIS JUST IN: People in the IT sector have the same behavioral traits as all of the rest of the humans on earth. HOLY SHIT!
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
Page 1: IT people are sometimes annoying.
Page 2: IT people are sometmes annoying, but sometimes it's okay.
Save yourself the trouble.
I don't mean to be rude, but just how many people clicked that link? This is ComputerWorld here, there are probably a couple hundred readers at any given time. Even if all of them clicked on a link on that site at once, you would expect any reasonably advanced technology to not buckle under the strain.
/. only link to services run on Celerons or what? How the heck many of us clicked that link?
Does
I think this is the only article in the history of Slashdot that could make GNAA comments, trolling and general bad behaviour -- ON TOPIC!
Annoying people exist everywhere. The trick is to direct their annoying behaviour at your foes.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
It's a beloved tradition.
Is Clippy Annoying?
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
Some kind of new 21st century discrimination? I have to be in IT to be annoying? huh? HUH? HUH?
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
I had to say that.
So much for RTFAing.
The person who wrote that article is really annoying.
isn't news supposed to be something we DON'T know?
Making a joke about "subjecting someone's site to a Slashdotting is annoying" is itself annoying.
It may be annoying to my end users when I attempt to explain things to them and they don't understand the terms I'm using.
But it's annoying to me when they insist on being ignorant about the tools that they need to do their jobs, and that I'm paid to maintain. A tiny bit of effort on their part would pay huge dividends.
Why is is that people think being ignorant of how a computer works is something to be so damned _proud_ of? Nobody says "I'm car-illiterate" with a little chuckle after they wrap a sedan around a tree, but users who accidentally destroy their computers somehow think it's IT's fault.
--saint
This article skirts around the real problem: stupid people. And yes if they talk back to me I will be resetting their login password to a random string of my choosing.
references to the movie Office Space. It wasn't that funny in the movie, and it's less funny coming from some intern who has never really worked for a living.
word.
Soon people stop coming to you and asking you things, and you end up without a job
*bzzzz* wrong. Soon business people will stop ANNOYING ME with their stupid questions and then I will end up getting some work done.
So why does getting an MBA turn relativly nice people into total morons when it comes to using a computer? Does the MBA overwrite common sense?
I had to share an office with someone who habitually taulked to himself with a normal-level voice. Every so often I would mistakenly think he was starting up a conversation, and there's nothing worse than an antisocial engineer.
I still have nightmares.
The problem is IT people can interfere with my work, but what I do doesn't affect them. For example, I'm a scientist. I know Linux inside and out and have been using it at home and elsewhere for over ten years. Yet, I don't have root access to my *own* Linux PC at work, which is behind the firewall. So whenever I need something installed, I need to ask IT, wait weeks, explain what's needed ten times to different IT people, and my productivity is hindered. As far as I'm concerned, IT is more or less useless, as I could do their job in addition to mine. And of course they know that -- that's why they don't give root access to us scientists.
IT has its own annoying quirks. Langer says some IT people label users as neophytes and then blame them for any difficulties. "The user insists their e-mail doesn't work, and the IT person says, 'My e-mail works perfectly,' and assumes the user is the problem. Users really find this annoying," he says.
Ha! Here's how that typical scenario goes...
USER: My e-mail doesn't work.
IT: What's wrong?
USER: I can't send e-mail. E-Mail doesn't work. The system must be down.
IT: None of the other 1700 employees have had any problems at all today with their e-mail. Can you be more specific about what your problem is?
USER: It doesn't work for me.
IT: Did the computer give you any error message?
USER: I think so but I wasn't paying attention.
IT: You realize that when something goes wrong on the computer, it tells you what went wrong? That message helps us know what the problem is?
USER: Yes, but e-mail doesn't work.
This question should be a vote-pool rather than a article...
please stop all whistling, tapping and humming in the office. It isn't musical entertainment for anyone, not even you. All it does is raise the blood-rage in my neck.
word.
Does anyone ELSE see the irony in michael posting this article?
The definition of annoying is knowing what you're talking about? This article implies that because people are ignorant (I use that term descriptively) for some reason YOU have a problem. If I had to remind someone every third day how to turn a doorknob I would seriously doubt their sanity, yet non-technical folks presume they should receive a pass when they're asking you the same damn question for the one hundredth time because they're too lazy to remember. So now you're the guy that knows it all, but you're "arrogant" if you show the slightest irritation with these folks. It's users that are annoying.
This article simply re-inforces one of Bart's chalk lessons:
I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty.
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
The article seems slashdotted, so I'll offer three of my own:
1. People who won't read the documentation thoroughly. "How do you use dd?" "Well, it's documented in the man pages." "I know, but I thought I'd ask you." I hate people who want to be spoon-fed the answers. Even worse are the ones who will ask you the same question a week later. DON'T TELL THEM! Make them look it up - they'll learn so much more in the process.
2. People who blame the software. "I found a compiler bug - this loop won't exit." "Um, that's because your exit test is wrong." Count the number of times a person blames the compiler, the libraries, or the operating system for problems that turn out to be their own; this count will be inversely proportional to their quality as a programmer. The worst ones find a new bug in the compiler every day.
3. People who give up too easily. Something doesn't work exactly as it seems it should, so they try a few variations - maybe - and then they run for help. "This doesn't work like the book says it should!" "OK, did you try ____. Or ____? Or _____, or even _____?" No? then why are you bothering me? THINK about what you're doing, then try to figure it out for yourself before crying for help. Perseverance is a quality all good programmers have.
The examples the article mentions really aren't specific to the IT field. Any field that requires a higher degree of knowledge has speciliazed jargon and inside humor. Guess what.. people annoy people. Amazing! Techs annoy end users. End users annoy techs. Chinese people annoy the English. Mac users annoy Windows users. Muslims annoy Christians.
That annoyance is usually the fault of the annoyed because he or she is frustrated because they don't understand. Sure, there are things you can do to not be condescending towards people, but thats more a life skill that everybody should have for everyday life.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
O wait - we already know the results - either their lying, or they said yes.
If you think that you can't be annoying because you often work alone, think again. You still deal with people for support, advice and information, as well as to get a promotion, notes Gini Graham Scott, author of A Survival Guide for Working With Humans (Amacom, 2004).
*SIGH* Ever notice how there's always some book that just came out that- surprise!- is relevant to the article?
So is this really useful advice, or an ad for this person's book?
Shouldn't this be under "Ask Slashdot?" I demand a change immediately! Oh, and no I don't think I'm annoying and you better agree with me damnit!
I like country music and beans, so the answer is no!
Essentially the article says IT guys annoy people who don't know squat about computers, and then these people leave the IT guys alone.
What it doesn't mention is that what annoys IT people to no end are the people who know nothing about computers but try to interject their opinion. You know, the poeple who don't listen to you when you say don't install program X, or don't install anything, or ingeneral ignore you when you say DON'T DO THAT!.
IT people tent to get bad reps because the technology is new and people have been ocnditioned that people who know about it are nerds or geeks. What they should understand is that IT guys are the mechanics of the technical world. You don't but diesle in a gasoline vehicle beause it is cheaper. If you do your mechanic will laugh at you and say don't do that again. The same way you don't instal everything you come across on the internet because your IT guy will laugh at you and say don't do that again. The only difference is you are more liekly to listen to your mechanic than to your IT guy.
Note: you and your probably doesn't apply to the slashdot crowd at large but speaking in third person about ID10T errors is annoying at best, so you was used.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
The LInux Zealot
Annoying behaviors are tricky because what annoys one person may sail by another. "You can say the same thing the same way to two people, and one person will say, 'Damn, that's annoying,' and the other person will not think anything of it,"
So what do you do? Keep the conversation dumbed down, filled with small talk? I always laughed at the comercials for television shows that said "we'll be talked about at the water cooler tomorrow, make sure you're not the one that misses it". Maybe that is what most people want? I don't buy it.
I try and not talk above anyone. But I don't want to talk down to people either. My solution is to explain things in the simplest way. It is like when I was in college and I knew this one guy who was smart. But I would never ask him for help with anything because he always made things 100 times more complex than it was just to show everyone how much smarter he was. Nobody liked him, not even other nerds. Lets call him Steve for arguments sake. If anyone asked Steve for help, even something as simple as 2+2, Steve would decide that calculus was needed to solve that problem. He then talked so fast, most of the time, to make sure you could not keep up. When Steve saw the confused look on the persons face, a grin would form on his face and he would slow down long enough to mockingly ask "can you follow this, it is really tough stuff you know, so hard". And you could never send him an email without getting it back, grammer corrected. What a prick.
I guess my advice is don't be Steve. Don't be that guy.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
This is annoying:
"Well, my email is working, so it must be a problem on your end."
This is not:
"Hmm, let me check our mail server - well, everything seems OK there, let's see if the problem is on your computer."
Two ways of saying the same thing, one is antagonistic, the other is constructive.
That's what social skills are all about - learning to communicate effectively.
I've worked help desk jobs for years. I've seen the bad techs and the good techs. I would say I'm great technically but I don't have a lot of patience to deal with pushy people and people who think they are more important than everybody else who is having a problem. In the US, at least, we go wwwwwwaaaaayyyyy too far trying to please everybody. It's a mistake that makes people feel entitled to having their way. We need to be like France and be rude SOB's.
And you know what? I don't want to deal with those types of issues ever again. At least now that I freelance, I'm getting paid well enough that I don't care if they are geniuses or complete idiots. My success is a reflection of their happiness... I will not forget that.
Let's not forget that socially maladjusted teenagers often grow up to have continuing social problems... I doubt many annoying geeks CAN change.
...take for instance yesterday. The developers, who are fully aware of how email works, came to me and said that one server couldn't send email from another server. So I asked them if they had tried logging into the server to telnet to the mail port on the other server. Of course, they hadn't. I did it, with root and the regular user, and it worked fine in both instances.
In the space of ten minutes, they had wasted my time. They had distracted me from what I was doing. And why? They assumed that the script they were writing couldn't possibly be at fault. They didn't take basic steps (that they knew how to do!) and assumed that the problem must be with the servers.
The next time they come to me, I will be less likely to be as willing to help, as I will know that they have both wasted my time before and have not likely taken basic steps to troubleshoot. So I will be more annoying next time.
Find out about the Lexus Rx400h Hybrid!
It's possibly the most vapid article I've read in a long time.
Don't bother posting the text, let me save you the trouble and summarise for you:
a) If you annoy people at work...you might not be promoted. (*gasp*)
b) If you are an annoying person generally, e.g. you annoy the customers, it's possible you're annoying other people too. (*gasp*)
c) In order to not annoy people, try and be less annoying. (*shock*, *horror*)
d) If you're worried about annoying people you need to buy the books and hire the services of the consultants who seem to have been interviewed for the article. (*raised eyebrows*)
That's it. That really is it.
Oh, e) Actually it's alright to annoy everyone so long as you're right and the company benefits. (*errrr?*)
I know it's fun to be smug about this, but this is a serious problem amongst programming teams.
Two teams that I have worked in now seem to hold the belief the the size of one's penis is proportional to the amount of stuff you know - technical or otherwise. Yes, even if it's never going to be relevant to the job at hand, and certainly if it can be used to make someone else feel inferior.
I deal with this every day and now I dread coming into work. However, I doubt that relocating will solve the problem, just suspend it for a while as most programmers seem to be very shy to the new person.
I think what the funniest thing is, however, is that when you do it back to them - to see how they'll react, they get just as mad as I would. They simply have no concept of the damage they do - I mean, none of us are perfect and I'm sure I have done it a few times myself, but I work hard to make sure I don't come off like an ass, even when I want to.
My manager of course, fosters this kind of communication - he thinks (I was told this directly) it creates a more productive environment. In my experience, it disallusions me and makes me want to work less, take more vacation/sick days to get out of work, and generally feel unwelcome everytime I step into the office.
What do I do? I'm a lead programmer at one of the top 50 e-commerce websites in the world. I think I can hold my own and then some when it comes to doing my job, that's never been the problem. IOW, I'm not a marketing guy who's technologically illiterate.
This attitude pushes talent away (we've had several talented interviewees not interested in our team after they interviewed), and productivity will only increase when the people with the problem are either excised or learn how to effectively communicate with their teammates.
not only is the article "kinda stupid", but it itself is indicative of other problems in workplaces
when folks get all worked about issues like this, they aren't foccusing on their jobs, and when they aren't foccussing on their jobs, they aren't reading the helpful dialog boxes that tell why their email isn't work
i'm perfectly okay with being "the annoying weirdo in IT"
instead of going crazy about who's annoying and who's not, how about we just accept the fact that some people (like me) are weird and annoying, and just get our work done already!
Where's the article on annoying end-users? Many of them think they can ask a question of any IT person about anything to do with a computer or a network or an application and expect to get a concise answer. This particular type of annoying end-user has such a limited understanding of technology that they think one person can know it all. The helpful IT person can then seem annoying when they try and answer a question and get it wrong or honestly answer "I don't know".
...imagine a beowulf cluster of those!
eBayDig 1s a typo saerch engien
The most annoying type for me is the drummers. You know, those that usually play in the local grunge band and don't realize that office hours are not a jam session. If your job really requires so little focus, it probably means you should be replaced by a shell script.
Chompers. Having lived in Europe in the past and now in North America I have to say the problem is much more prevalent here. How fucking difficult is it to keep your mouth shut while chewing your food. The previous workplace of mine had a chomper so loud I had to take my lunch to the conference room because the noises were so disgusting. I noticed that over time more joined me on lunch trips to the conference room. As it usually goes, the chomper remained unfazed.
And finally the aspiring "executives' in the making" special: checking your voicemail on speaker phone! Need I say more?
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
This all reminds me of a poll reported on by the Register about how end users don't see themselves as responsible for their own actions when related to IT. Relevent quotes: -One in five people surveyed said they are "too busy to download anti-virus updates". -Depressingly, nine in ten of the workers quizzed believe that have no part to play in preventing the spread of viruses, preferring to leave responsibility to "their IT department, Microsoft or the government". With this kind of attitude, it is no wonder IT workers get sufficiently frustrated so as to be "annoying".
I pride myself on my ability to piss people off at work. I make whitty comments and constantly look for ways to aggravate my coworkers. If I can get them worked up then I resort to a few high kicks and an other light tap to the back or elbow.
I find it's best to work my magic just when someone has come from a meeting or has failed at doing some task.
Once I've earned their rage, then I briskly walk away and my laughter can be heard throughout the work area.
I had an arguement with the General Sales Manager, he said he was a bigger asshole then me and of course I disagree. I prove him wrong every day.
Gotta love IT.... they might hate me sometimes, but they certainly can't live without me.
Some would say, what I do is a bad idea and that I should fear my for my job security. There is no replacement for me I'm afraid (at least not at my pay rate... the joy of being overqualified and then dependance on that exact overqualification)
I do in part some good things and all the girls do enjoy my office massages.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Try to understand the type of person you're dealing with, says Steve Smith, a technical business consultant in Seattle for storage maker EMC Corp. "If I'm dealing with a [nonintuitive] person, I need to put things in concrete language. This person doesn't want abstractions."
The problem is a lot of IT, particularly when programming can be abstract, this is not a problem but users as questions like "why isn't it working"
IT people expect users to always know what they want, and they can get exasperated when they don't. "Business people have a right to change their minds, because the business changes," says Ellen Gottesdiener, principal consultant at EBG Consulting in Carmel, Ind.
The problem here is that business people know thier business, and say "i have problem X" whereas I don't understand X. so i then ask questions to gain an understanding of X. So now after spending all that time (money) understanding and another boatload of time (money) coding up something which is starting to look like it will do the job the business owner changes thier mind. By this time a change of direction may cost me thousands of pounds and its thier right to change thier mind? Perhaps we would find business people less "annoying" if they were prepared to pay (with money) for thier own indecisiveness.
I keep getting these offers for penis enlargements in my email that I could forward to you?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
1) They are never around when you need them. They supposedly work long hours but for some reason can never be located. Page them and they rarely answer in a timely manner.
2) When something fails, they ask you what you changed. You tell them you changed NOTHING and proceeded exactly as you have on every other day. They say you must have changed something.
3) They act like they're so fucking important just because they have the keys (passwords) to controlling the system. Just because you have some power, you don't have to wield it.
4) Most were incompetent at software development and that's why they fell back on system administration; and they're only marginally competent at that.
Also annoying, people who act annoyed at being asked to do their freaking jobs.
I was just attempting to read an unrelated article on computerworld.com. When the site wasn't responding my first thought was: "they must be getting Slashdotted or something." Sure enough, I check Slashdot and right up there, the first article links to computerworld.com. Annoying Slashdotters!
Any situation which has one party depending on the knowledge of one person that the frustrated end user lacks, involves the potential triggers for defensive behaviors. Annoying is perceptive, not a defineable act. What rgiggers someone to be defensive, is usually the need to feel intelligent. A simple mechanism to confirm ones ability to be relevant and important in the world. Powerlessness isnt good for the psyche. Now this can exist in any realm, politics, mechanics, policing, lawyering etc.. the mode to resolve this is a shift in understanding not simple cliches and political correctness ( dont use that word its a geek word , don't ooppress me)... besides this looks like a bullsh*t medium to sell a book.
Heres some major annoyances that IT people have to deal with:
-Talking on speakerphone at maximum level (everyone in the office thats not IT)
-Whispering about coworkers in the next cube over (I can hear every word if no ones on speaker phone)
-Slamming doors
-Arguing with coworkers in the hallway (go somewhere else)
-Changing the thermostat every time your personal temperature fluctuates.
Let's face it, most of us computer nerds are anti-social. Part of the reason we got into computers in the first place.
There's generally a holier-than-thou attitude already in place. I laugh when I hear my nerdy friends complain so arrogantly about the "populace" who dares use Microsoft products as opposed to OSS. It just illustrates an amazing lack of perspective toward people who treat their computers and operating systems as simple tools to get work done, and not hobbies or religions.
I'm just trying to fit in.
Interesting that a computer magazine would publish an article like this. Last time I checked, there weren't any self-help books mixed in with my O'reily collection. Both in science and in IT, you constantly read articles about how "scientists don't communicate effectively enough." Can anyone tell me a profession outside of the media that does communicate effectivly with people who haven't a clue what's going on?
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Have you thought about being constructive?
All of these are good points, but a rephrasing of your speech can go a long way.
One of the tricks myself and another programmer on my team use when #1 starts asking us questions is saying, "I don't remember", or "I don't know". This way no one is insulted and the effect is the same. They're forced to read the manpage.
#2 is a little more difficult. We have a programmer at work who has been there 2 years and still hasn't picked up the primary programming language. I mean, he can't even write code that parses properly. This one is a problem for management, as far as I can tell. Pointing it out to them will save you a lot of hell, but after that, I don't think there's much you can do about that other than politely explaining that the problem is in their code. Point it out enough times, and hopefully they'll get the point. Otherwise, you're left to more devious devices to get the point across. As mentioned before, this one is particularily hard to get across in a constructive way.
#3 is solved by setting an example. Sometimes, describing the problems you go through helps. Sometimes, solving their problems for a while helps, but it really depends on the person. A combination of #2 and #3 are particularily bad, and my example earlier is one of those people. I'm still figuring this one out myself.
The point is, do you want to be angry and bitter all day at your teammates or do you want to get stuff done? Helping your teammates (what a concept!) in a constructive way goes a long way to making the latter happen.
3. People who give up too easily. Something doesn't work exactly as it seems it should, so they try a few variations - maybe - and then they run for help. "This doesn't work like the book says it should!"
You know what is MORE annoying but similar? Developers who give up too easily. I've had co-workers try to do things the right way and as soon as the first try fails, they go off and put in some kind of totally bastard suck-ass hack instead. They'll claim that something is broken when they try doing it the "right way", even if it is something that you know can't be broken. i.e. "Java's StringTokenizer is broken! It won't parse my pipe delimited string! So I spent the afternoon writing my own." They you look at their code and they didn't instantiate their StringTokenizer correctly.
The worst part of all this is coming behind some dumbass like this and having to fix all their shit. I'd almost rather them just be annoying and ask for help first before they go off fixing a problem the wrong way.
-----------
USER: My e-mail doesn't work.
IT: What's wrong?
USER: I can't send e-mail. E-Mail doesn't work. The system must be down.
IT: I don't think the system is down. Let me see. Hmm, I can send mail. I wonder why you can't.
USER: It doesn't work for me.
IT: Did the computer give you any error message?
USER: I think so but I wasn't paying attention.
IT: Ok, let me come look at it. Maybe something is wrong with your account.
-----------
You're supposed to have an attitude of wanting to help, not proving it's not your fault. Jeez, no wonder people hate IT users, with responses like that.
-Dan
The word is "verge".
Seeing things in black and white, trying to create a bright line where there isn't one, is one of the very things the article describes as annoying.
How about because using a computer is more complex than driving car?
This is the exact lack of perspective in IT people that I wrote about in another post. Just because you understand what a "command prompt" is doesn't mean everyone else does. But the majority of us knows how to push a gas pedal and steer a wheel.
Computers, unlike cars, constantly have problems that require checking the internal hardware or software configurations. Do you know how to refit your car's exhaust manifold? If cars were as flaky as computers, wouldn't you feel annoyed at the anti-social, nerdy car mechanics whose lives are spent arguing over car model brands as though they're religions, and taking time out of their oh-so-busy schedules of bitching to each other in order to fix your incessant problems?
Yeah...perspective is good.
This is what is involved in making a project directory:
mkdir directory_name
And then they act as if they have just given you a blow job and swallowed.
Getting something recovered off the daily tape backup requires and act of Congress.
--- Ban humanity.
I agree for the most part, but if everyone solved their own problems, IT people would be out of a job.
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
Slashdotting every interesting article off the Internet...
_I'm a lead programmer at one of the top 50 e-commerce websites in the world_
Being an HTML jockey is not anywhere near being a lead programmer.
"1. People who won't read the documentation thoroughly. "How do you use dd?" "Well, it's documented in the man pages." "I know, but I thought I'd ask you." I hate people who want to be spoon-fed the answers. Even worse are the ones who will ask you the same question a week later. DON'T TELL THEM! Make them look it up - they'll learn so much more in the process."
I can understand your annoyance with this, but I have a problem with your assumption that "they'll learn so much more in the process." That would only be true if they are a visual learner. Learning styles vary from person to person, and some happen to be audio learners, meaning they can read something as many times as they want, and not be able to retain anything from it, but will be able to remember it perfectly well if someone reads it to them.
"Even worse are the ones who will ask you the same question a week later." Is this after the first time they asked you told them the answer or is it after you told them to read the documentation? If you told them what it said and they still asked a week later, then yes that is rather annoying that the person cannot retain knowledge at all, but if the first time you just told them to read the documentation and they asked you again a week later, then you may have run into an audio learner like I mentioned above.
"3. People who give up too easily. Something doesn't work exactly as it seems it should, so they try a few variations - maybe - and then they run for help. "This doesn't work like the book says it should!" "OK, did you try ____. Or ____? Or _____, or even _____?" No? then why are you bothering me? THINK about what you're doing, then try to figure it out for yourself before crying for help. Perseverance is a quality all good programmers have."
I just find it amusing that the populace is getting so bad on this point that it's not even assumed they have tried simply restarting the computer. Whenever I have tech problems that I can't solve myself, I finally ask tech support, and I list all the things I've tried so they don't have to tell me to try them, but I keep forgetting to add that I've restarted and/or turned the computer off, waited, then turned it back on, so the replies always start out with "try a power cycle."
Yes, I am female. No, I do not want to date you.
I realize there's a difference between doing someone else's job and just helping out. I know, because at some point in a project I worked on, some other guy needed help at an increasing rate. It didn't take too long until this help was needed at least twice an hour. And he expected me to abort anything I did, just to help him out.
I was basicly doing his job, and when I had done that I might actually have some time to my own before he started nagging again. Annoying selfish prick. So, yes I know. There's a difference between doing the other guys job and just helping out.
But helping out, if thats what you're doing, is a good thing. If you know the answer and it takes three seconds to utter it and adding "It says so in the man-pages", I can't see what's wrong with helping people out.
It's good for business. It's good spreading experience and knowledge around. Simply refusing to cooperate on the grounds that things can be done without coopration, now that is annoying.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Listen ! Listen ! Listen to your customers.
when i say "Listen" its the real meaning of listening and not playing solitaire while hearing to customer !!!
Hello , this is my way.
Which way is yours ?
btw there is no right way
So that's why my doctor told me my "ho-ho" was giving me some problems in my "wizzy winkle" after I stuffed it in my girlfriends "bajingo".......damn, and I thought it was just a nonoxynol 9 sensitivity issue.
"The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
-Thucydides
Sometimes it can be both. But only the ad can be guaranteed :-D
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
I think IT people have the right to be annoying when people come into their offices with the following situations:
IT people only do two things wrong: they're sometimes rude and sometimes stubborn. But really, that's nothing compared to what users put us through every day.
"It's better to not be annoying, than to be right."
"Unless, of course, you're right.
Then go ahead and be annoying."
They forgot to add "articles written at the last minute, or possibly for a content feature on MSN" to the annoying list.
I finally have figured it out. The main duty of a CIO is to seek out and discuss annoying people for 100k+ a year, lovely...
I would hate to go thru life without just bugging the hell outta somebody. If we dont annoy SOMEBODY, then that says we have a milktoast personality. Theres not much there.
ere is a typical linux situation.
Linuxtard: You should switch to Linux it is better than M$ (isn't that clever it's a dollar sign instead of an S)
Normal human being: Sure why not. Hey how do I set my email? Why isn't it recognizing my video card?
Linuxtard: RTFM
Normal human being: I did. It didn't help at all. I want to run linux but I need some help.
Linuxtard: RTFM you stupid n00b
"You don't have to be rude."
For me it is far more complicated to drive a car than to do computer related stuff. You ned to be both able to react quickly to new situation, to pay attention to a big environnement "volume" (right, left, behind, ahead), and need to repsect some "law". OTOH for computer you only need the law, look at a small volume/surface of info, and do not need quick reflex. Less skill needed. No wonder I always found doing computer related stuff easier than driving a car. And we are not even speaking of "looking under the hood" here (like your example with exhaust manifold) we are only speaking of basical task (word using/excel using compared to driving).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
It's okay for endusers to take a layer of skin off me because their computer doesn't work, but it's not okay for me to imply that they are idiots for not even looking to see that-- oh, look-- it was accidentally unplugged/the power strip was turned off?
As IT people, it's our job to educate endusers as well as fix their computer problems. If nothing else works, I don't think it's a bad thing to try to shame a user into maybe taking a peek at Google or the built-in help system before they pick up the phone to call me.
It's like wanting to drive without knowing how to pump your own gas, check your oil, refill your washer fluid reservoir, put air in your tires, or change a flat. Have some fucking pride, people-- don't you feel the least bit stupid the 10th time you call for the same simple problem? If not, I'm going to see if I can make you feel that way.
The article associated with this thread revolves around the idea that arrogance on the part of IT is a counterproductive and destructive trait. I disagree.
The insecure user who wants everything handed to him will always have his/her sensitibilities offended by someone who is more confident. This is just the way it is. Some people are smarter and more intuitive and some people are more dumb and sensitive. For example, the IT guy might read up on technology to become more capable. The insecure dumb user might write a goofy passive-aggressive article on annoyance in the workplace.
I'm sick and tired of wussy, insecure people who think that half of my job is to make them feel better about themselves. That's BS. My job is very specific and technical. You want your system working? Fine. You want your ego stroked at the same time, or you want me to back up your intent to pass the buck for your own screw-ups to someone else? Forget it.
It has become a NECESSITY these days in large IT departments for the technical crew to maintain an aire of superiority, especially over dumbass users. It's the only way we can get these morons to think twice about some of the many boneheaded decisions they make each day which get them in trouble which cause them to come crying to us to fix. This doesn't happen out of the blue. IT respects some people in a company, and others they don't. The latter group usually monopolize IT time with a plethora of little fires that competent people would never have created - and almost always these are things not related to the company or the employee's job.
The only way to deal with the 5% moron users who monopolize 80% of IT resources is to make the experience of dealing with IT unpleasant enough that they're forced to actually pay attention. They aren't treated with pseudo-contempt at first, but they prove their worthiness to be subject to BOFH treatment over a long period of time where they continually waste IT time.
If I'm "annoying" to you, it's a safe bet I'm annoyed because I asked you to follow simple, industry-best practices to make both our lives easier and you have repeatedly failed to do so. I'd bet the guy who wrote this article was the one guy in the office that continually clicked on every attachment and icon he could target. And finally he incurred the wrath of IT who had had it with his irresponsible behavior.
"I see dumb people, they are all around me.." Yes, it is true, they are all around is, it is impossible to not run into one on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, the IT profession gets poked at about this type of attitude and it should, it's true.
I agree with this article and I would say that if you are having a problem with people and have some sort of idea that they are all wrong, you might want to take a moment and look in the mirror because the problem is you.
There is simply nothing more annoying than working with someone who has all the answers (this is simply a delusional). As an IT professional, I am always working with others to achieve solutions, and there are deinitely people out there who assist in producing these solutions, however, like the article states, they are not always easy to go to.
BAD IT professionals stifle an organizations ability to provide quality services and these "GOD Like" creatures should consider a profession that can be dealt with in complete seclusion or learn how to effectively deal with people.
Here are a couple of tips for those of you who (you know who you are), that may be suffering:
1. Explain yourself, know your audience.
anyone can rattle off a slew of acronyms, lets face it, there are millions, how about learning a little more about who you are talking to and speak at their level, I have found this to be far more effective than going on and on about some technology. Save it for someone who understands.
2. Learn to listen
If you are sitting there in a meeting just waiting to hear yourself talk, you are more than likely to not be heard, and even if what you have to say makes sense or is important, people may not want to hear it. Why? becasue I it is more than likely certain that people are on to this and realize that you do not care about what they have to say. People are more perceptive than you would think (oh thats right, this trait is reserved to you only)
3. Communicate.
Well, I realize that this encompasses nearly all of what I have said, so I will be more specific, sorry if it does not deal completely with this subject. What I means is, let your users know what is going on (in simple terms) and have a plan. I have seen way too many times people make system-wide changes without fully understanding the consequences and with little or no comunication, this is SO disasterous and must be completely avoided.
4. Take Responsibility
All too many times, a mistake is made and the IT guru begins to point his/her finger, "it can't be my system" and then magically the problem goes away.... Hmmm, remember what I said about perceptive?
I could go on all day about this, the bottom line is we all need to understand our audiences and be mindful of our actions, we are dealing with a wide variety f people in the workplace, if you can't handle this, ask for a position with no human contact.
is shitty articles like that one... NEXT.
--- Stop the world! I want to get off!
what is annoying to one person may not be to another. People in Non-IT departments were annoying to me in many ways. Yet I do not have the luxtury of avoiding them, as they have for me. I have to deal with them, as I am part of IT and therefor support them.
Annoying is when they blame the program for their not being able to get work done, and I believe them and go to their system (which is on the other side of the building) and ask them to repeat what they did to cause the error, and it does not error out. I examine their system thoroughly, and I find no problems. I watch them work on the system for a while, and no errors. I ask them what the error said exactly and they answer "I dunno", and in the past they have been told repeatedly to write down any error messages to help us debug the problems. I tell them I'll make a note of it, and examine the code to see if it causes any errors, but if it happens again, please write down the error message exactly as it is stated on the screen and I can better help them. Then they say "Thank you" and I go back to my coding. Then my boss gets a complain from them on me that I didn't fix the problem. How could I? The problem wasn't even shown to me, nor did it happen. I suspect the user was faking a problem to get out of doing work. The old "The computer is down/ the program broke/ had an error" excuse, and then blame IT. Pollitics annoy me greatly, and this is pollitical in nature to make me and IT look bad. I did everything in my power to recreate the error to see what it said. It didn't even show up in the error log at all, as my program trapped errors and wrote them to progname_err.log in the user's hard drive, before exiting and the Windows Event Viewer didn't show anything either. Fbog!
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Who's more irritating then?
I could run circles around one of our IT people and I have no training in the fields whatsoever.
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
I am much more forgiveful to non-technical people.
What annoy me most is dealing with non-competent technical people. They will completely miss understand the problem, keep on circulating on some basic issue. If you say something they've never heard before(e.g. deeply technical), they will think you are an idiot.
e.g. Last time my ISP fucked the routing table up, users in the office are complaining lots of site like the whole sf.net and some taiwanese subnet are unreachable. Some of the unreachable host are happened to be online games servers.
I complained about the issue via CS hotline. The tech sup sweetheart completely ignore the routing issue keeps on circulating on online gaming.
The only reason I try not to piss people off at work is that I know if I lost my job and live out my dream to poison-gas my high-school reunion, it'll be more work than if I just keep my mouth shut.
Gee, I don't see anything about how annoying cab drivers, waiters, construction workers, football fans, etc, can be. So personally I'm doing s/IT/human/ and fuck the bullshit.
Seriously, this article takes the one group of people who are generally shat on all through their youth and then gets the joy of being blamed for problems due to low budget not lack of foresight and we *still* can't say I told you so, WE'RE annoying? STFU, whores. You'd best believe I can do a lot more than annoy the in-duh-viduals and cow-workers around me. ALL PEOPLE ARE ANNOYING. At least the article bothers to allude to such when they say that "some acts annoy some people and sail right past others"... translation: EVERYONE ANNOYS SOMEONE. Speaking from experience here, if you can't put up with someone who's "annoying", then you're even worse off than they are. The workplace isn't fucking kindergarten. Maybe that person is actively trying to be friendly and for whatever reason, they have different values and strengths than you. I know I'd be annoyed as hell if someone came into my cube and started talking football for half an hour. I still wouldn't tell them to "fuck off", I'd let them know that I wasn't interested. How about this for annoying: people who write articles about IT workers foibles in such a way as to imply that "IT == Geek == Annoying == deserves to lose job". How about this: "Geek == IT worker == I barely have the coping skills to not sever your ugly head and use the blood to paint my bathroom, and you're calling me annoying? Then stay the hell away 'cause I find your pulse and breathing abhorrent". Fuck this article. And fuck all the ex-jocks, ex-cheerleaders, ex-popular assmonkeys who read this and think "Gee, why don't those loser nerds and geeks in IT just act the way I act? I'm perfect (as evidenced by my popularity and physical beauty) so obviously the problem with /those people/ is that nerds and geeks choose to be unliked and so they deserve to be made fun of/ridiculed as annoying/blamed for problem X..."
MOTHER *&@#^(*&@^#*&@ BITCHES!!!! AAAAAGHGHHGHH I HATE STUPID PEOPLE (yet somehow I manage to live with them. Imagine that)
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
And when you close the calls you classify the problem. The stats can be usefull to see where money should be spent improving the systems.
e.g.
1: We had a crm system which would fuck up and cause problems regularly, we got loads of problem calls about it, it was terrible. The stats showed the problem and money was invested to upgrade the software and hardware, problem solved.
2: There was a prat who raised several tickets per week, often a couple a day if his environment didn't suit him. While he thought he knew what he was doing, he'd make changes and basically fuck up his account without keeping backups of his files. After a few meetings with his management to point out the number of tickets he was raising and the types of tickets, he was moved sideways into a position where he wasn't writing software anymore.
One of the best things you can do is say "Show me the problem, I need to see it to work out what it is". You obviously need to have some way of monitoring the user's desktop while they demonstrate the problem.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Considering that the reason that Kerry voted against it was because of riders on the bill, his voting against it wasn't as bad as you think, though I don't know entirely what to make about his statement that if his was the deciding vote he would have voted for it. He says he wanted it to pass but not with the appearance of overwhelming support for the bill in the condition it was in. More Info
"[They] have difficulty between shades of gray," he says. "Sometimes there are a lot of 'rightish' answers," and insisting that there's just one can be annoying.
:)
I didn't know IT people are republicans. Either you are with IT people or you are against them!!
Seriously, though... does anyone think because it's influence of the nature of the digital computer? Yes/no, right/wrong, 1/0, true/false, working/not working. When you program, most of the time, you deal with conditional statements (if, while, for) a lot while switch is not used often. Thus, to be in the gray areas, you may need lots of nested if statements which increase the complexity.
as some people have pointed out, the IT field is dominated by people with mild to moderate autistic traits (look up asperger's syndrome). Not all autistics are retarted children streaming and climbing up walls, those are just the rare extreams. Your typical autistic person is a social outsider, mathematics and sci-fi liking, computer-loving type. Computer programming is dominated by autistics.
So that individuals who lack social perceptivity, and are obsessive, should annoy others isn't surprising. Not washing for a week is annoying. Programming for 24hours straight is annoying. Talking non stop about Doom III is annoying. Lots of reasons.
Everyone's annoying some of the time
annoying behavior can have serious consequences in IT, where it can compromise your effectiveness, wreak havoc with projects and even derail your career.
Therefore, everyone's effectiveness is compromised, havoc is wreaked with their projects and their careers are derailed, which perfectly describes the current state of the workplace. +5 Insightful
"Say someone comes to you and asks you a question today, and they find you annoying," says Bent. "Maybe the next time, they'll ask someone else. Soon people stop coming to you and asking you things, and you end up without a job."
"Ah, I see here Mr. Smith you were annoying three weeks ago last Tuesday. I'm afraid we'll have to ask you to clean out your desk."
Try to understand the other person's frame of reference, says Bent. And don't make assumptions, adds Lee. Listen to what people have to say.
In other words, be perfect or you're fired, because co-workers who persistenly complain because you are NOT perfect (which is, of course, not annoying for some reason) are perfectly blameless for having completely unrealistic expectations.
The peer reviews let everyone know who is being annoying and how.
Let's all sit around and bitch about each other. Oh, what happiness and joy can be found in a gray cubicle! Let's all sing the company song!
If you move your institution's agenda forward and you have to irk someone to do so, it's a good thing
Really? So the rest of the article was wrong?
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
People who give me longwinded explanations of shit I truly don't care about are incredibly fucking annoying.
I'm not annoying, nope not me, nope never no I'm never annoying, see? I'm not annoying, god dammit I said I'm not annoying! hey hey look at me! look what I'm doing! why arent you listening to me! god damn I'm telling you I'm not annoying! LOOK LOOK! why arent you looking?! come on! loook! I'm nooot annnoooooyyyiiing!
I REPAIR computers for a living. I don't do training. Why do end users think that it is my job to train them how to use a computer? Did any of you pay a mechanic to learn how to drive? Why do end users expect that all IT/geek types are happy to train them, for free non the less, about everything from Basic mouse use to how to do some formula in Excel?
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
I find anyone who divides the workplace into "IT people" and "business people" annoying. As if IT is not part of the "group".
1) Their mantra is "Linux, Linux" and make a fool of everyone that doesn't masturbate with the latest obscure distro (never mind that the Average User cannot get their hardware to work with Linux)
2) Socially incompetent, they feel the urge to let the world know their totally irrelevant view on things on - Slashdot. Yeah - they don't dare to leave the basement and have a normal conversation.
Ah well - this is enough.
What it doesn't mention is that what annoys IT people to no end are the people who know nothing about computers but try to interject their opinion. You know, the poeple who don't listen to you when you say don't install program X, or don't install anything, or ingeneral ignore you when you say DON'T DO THAT!.
You will find that kind of interjection in any profession. The difference is that lawyers, doctors and even car mechanics are not hampered by an industry dominating company that tells people not to learn anything and intentionally hides the inner workings of the profession. Everyone else wants the client to be knowledgable enough to use their services.
It's amazing that you can stand there and say "don't do X" as if that's normal. Nothing the user does should be able to break their computer. Users have picked up on this and know that it's a quality issue.
IT users are understandably frustrated and they are going to take it out on you if you swallow M$ BS and regurgitate it without thinking. Almost every IT user has been through one iteration of the upgrade train without reward. The changes between each version of Windoze are confusing, unnecessary and add few real features but the flaws remain. When you start talking about, "don't do this" and "the new version will fix that", the user is going to get that "I've been here before" feeling. God help you if you try blame a user for their daily crashes when they've done everything you said.
In short, the answer is to move people to software that does not have the problems to begin with and remains consistent. That's hard to do with all of M$'s FUD, but it's getting easier than doing the same old thing and getting the same old results for ever more money.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Next time, just ssh into their box and change things for them. No need for you or the user to leave their seat. Can't do that with M$? Something about a lack of human readable text configuration, a registry, and bandwith intense GUI crap? Oh well, it sucks to be you.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
... to my girlfriend. I'll be reading some new technical thing and go like "wow, they got a new cellphone that actually computes your MPG when using peanut oil,and automagically adjusts for altitude using gps and......" and blah blah blah. After about three of those geek gems in a row, she'll drag down a cooking book and start reading recipes out loud, for like 1/2 hour. Usually shuts me up for at least a coupla days......
Good point. I'd say that medicine, law and banking are much more difficult than click and drool M$ Administration.
But wait, those other people don't annoy me! They just get their job done and they like it when I research things that they openly publish and encourage me to know. Wow.
If M$ ran medicine, I'd turn blue once a day and die in two years.
If M$ ran my bank, they would forget how much money I have every month and people would be able to drain bank accounts all the time. Oh dear, that's happening.
If M$ ran law, it would be complicated, tangled, nonsense that constantly changes by secret process but always gets worse. They do run "IP" law. If I had an "IP" attorney, I'm afraid they would be getting very annoying.
It's not wonder that people prefer paying taxes and having root canals to dealing with Microsoft.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it."
...like he can speak any of those languages)
... How did you feel when you stood up in front of the people for the State of the Union Address-state of the budget address, whatever you call it."
...just a hand full...
-George W. Bush, May 14
(deadlier bullets?)
"But I also made it clear to (Vladimir Putin) that it's important to think beyond the old days of when we had the concept that if we blew each other up, the world would be safe."
-George W. Bush, May 1, 2001
(Ah, remember that warm fuzzy glow feeling when all we had to worry about was global destruction?)
"First, we would not accept a treaty that would not have been ratified, nor a treaty that I thought made sense for the country."
-George W. Bush, on the Kyoto accord, April 24, 2001
(I guess if *he* thinks it makes sense, it probably isn't acceptable)
"Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican."
-George W. Bush, declining to take reporters' questions during a photo op with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, April 21, 2001
(Hey, I took Mexican in High School!
"It would be helpful if we opened up ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Refuge). I think it's a mistake not to. And I would urge you all to travel up there and take a look at it, and you can make the determination as to how beautiful that country is."
-George W. Bush, at a White House Press conference, March 29, 2001
(This one to me is a double-whammy, not only is it a stupid idea to destroy more of the planet for a fuel that will continue to pollute the planet, but the idiot is undermining his own plan of doing just that by convincing people to go see how beautiful it is! what a dope!)
"A lot of times in the rhetoric, people forget the facts. And the facts are that thousands of small businesses - Hispanically owned or otherwise - pay taxes at the highest marginal rate."
-George W. Bush, speaking to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, March 19, 2001
(keep reading...)
"I've coined new words, like, misunderstanding and Hispanically."
-George W. Bush, speaking at the Radio & Television Correspondents dinner, March 29, 2001
(the man actually thinks he made up the word 'misunderstanding' - that goes a little beyond mispronunciation)
"I suspect that had my dad not been president, he'd be asking the same questions: How'd your meeting go with so-and-so?
-George W. Bush, in an interview with the Washington Post, March 9, 2001
('whatever you call it'? you run the country with that brain?)
"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.''
-George W. Bush, Feb. 21, 2001
(idiotic statement, with bad grammer to boot)
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
I suppose I am, to an uneducated nothing whose Daddy owns the company while he blows away his Dad's fortunes on his $500,000 expense account (which would be better spent by Daddy putting this useless idiot 'face-man' thru an actual education, instead of his buying his grades from his prof.'s & cheating via FRATS keeping old tests to use & memorize).
Daddy KNOWS he's got a shot spot that should have landed on the floor, for a son is why. Lazy, no good for nothing is more like it who wastes his Dad's money by failing to educate himself, & is just a fake acting out a role in the play of his life: A BIG ACT!
World's full of those types, & they're wrecking the economy by putting them in a 50 useless VP titled job because Daddy's on the board of directors or owns the place (ala American Psycho illustration, or what Gordon Gecko in the film "wallstreet" clearly illustrated as well).
The 'face-men' who have to do the STUPIDEST thing I have ever seen & act like they understand something when in effect? They don't, & do not question it in fear of looking like what they really are: Uneducated dolts!
I mean, how many times have we had to use analogies like "A diskcache is just like a little black book of phone #'s, where your harddisk is the entire phone book"
Some folks, good folks, ask if they do not understand a term. The 'face-men' (whose Daddy's buy their job, woman, & life for them because they know they have what should have been a shot-spot after stroking himself off on the floor for a son) out there are ruining it for everyone, just because they don't have enough wherewithall & courage to say: "Please explain that term to me, I have always wondered what it was, thanks, & in analogous terms I can relate to, again thanks!"
No, they've gotta play "SMART" to look good instead... & these ARE the types that make dumbass errors in business when making decisions on top of it because of their "pride" (pride in being an ignoramous ontop of it all) & lack of knowledge.
I mean, how many of you guys, who actually worked hard & studied for your educations, have dealt with idiots that have not even installed DOS as your head of IS/IT/MIS? I would wager, a TON of you... idiots like that, who have NOT done the job themselves should not have the role in the first place!
BUT, Daddy's bucks can sure make them feel & look important... even if they flunked outta one degree after another due to coke use & drinking when they should have been studying. Die you undereducated losers (worse, the ones that do not admit to being one), & do NOT reproduce your erroneous genetics of laziness & political blowboy methods, you ARE trash, pure 110% unadulterated TRASH of society & everyone knows it.
Those that do have the sense to ask "What is that, I don't understand that term", this is NOT directed your way, but rather to the losers whose Parents money bought them their positions in life & on the job!
Those two are the most annoying quality in IT. I see IT as a support team intended to help end users as productive as they can. However, somehow, it morphed into an organization with its own agenda and instead of supporting, it dictates what it wants sometimes with erroneous reasoning and subjective preferences.
Take the forced migration from Macs to Windows for example. Often times, the standardization caused the budget to soar or the service to suffer, and yet since IT people loved Microsoft, they forced the migration anyway using "it's cheaper to support single OS" argument. We see it with Internet Explorer vs. Netscape. You want to see zealotry and fanboy-ism? Forget Mac users... look at the IT departments.
I realize that IT needs to set up a set of rules, but they need to make sense and does not restrict minor personalization of the computers. Computer personalization can help end users to be more productive. Somehow, IT behaves that it is the king of computers and all computers belong to IT. No, the computers belong to the company to be used by revenue producing end users and it should be utilized by end users according to their own most comfortable ways of working.
And oh, never to look down on end users. IT people are hired to help them. If they are all expert computer users, there won't be a big need for IT people, will there? Be thankful of that! And sometimes an end user may surprise you with what he knows.
Seriously, some of you are such fucking idiots.
The rating system goes from -1 to -5, right? So would it make sense to imply that from 0 to 1 are posts that don't contribute anything and -1 is for posts that go out of their way to fuck up discussion (trolls, gnaa, etc)?
I hope the editors can look to see what kind of people do this and ban them from being mods.
...as I have ultimate control over the network. I do my best to help my users out, but I get mad when they shout at me without listening to what I have to say (y'know a fax machine works better when it's plugged in? But try getting *that* across to some people) The more they shout and are unreasonable, the more "annoying" I get. I lock their systems down, ban their favourite websites, and set everyone's desktops to strawberry milkshake pink.
Do what my agency does:
Hire people with very little IT experience into IT support jobs. They may not know a whole lot, but they sure are nice people to work with.
If you want root access so bad then root the box yourself since you know Linux inside and out.
True. Rooting the box is pretty much trivial if you have direct physical access.
OTOH, rooting your own computer is not going to buy you friendly-points with IT support staff, esp. if they are anal-retentive about their imaginary position in power.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
that article was annoying.
CBDSF
free ipod and free gmail!
Annoying IT behaviour is five years on an improperly configured domain.
Really. Turning on samba in OS X should not be eating the network. Say something, really.
Worse, imo, is that one of my coworkers has YET to discover the MAGIC of HEADPHONES and she listens to nothing but staticy SHIT all day. >:|
I don't understand.
I can't be bothered to learn.
I expect you to be both a skilled IT professional and a commuications expert that can take the time to sit down and explain how my computer works (no acronoms or polyslabic words please.)
Oh, and you had better not expect to be well paid.
5. "That is the intended behavior."
4. "That's interesting, because your site logs show that you did delete your users' data."
3. Your proposal to get back on schedule with bug testing contains the line, "As a valued client we would like to extend to you the opportunity to run the latest version of our software before widespread release."
2. Your confirmation messages read, "You are attempting to do something stupid. Would you like to cancel this request, or would you like me to send a notification to the system administrator containing the last 7 days of your browsing history?"
1. Any statement which begins, "A Klingon warrior...".
I say we ship it!
Not if you work on a helpdesk.
Especially if it's one of those that are outsourced.
We have no choice. We have to go through the helpdesk for anything technical.
I'm still waiting for an IP address request. They asked me for the subnet. They are IT, they should know what subnet to use! The average user doesn't even know what a subnet is.... amazing
Luckily, I know all the techie folks, sit right next to them, so this was not a problem. Interestingly, The guy who sits right across from me will eventually be the one that will issue the new IP, but I have to go through the guys in Malaysia to get it. How efficient is that?
Karma, We don't need no stinkin' karma!
[so I got lazy! whadda ya gonna do?]
5. "That is the intended behavior."
4. "That's interesting, because your site logs show that you did delete your users' data."
3. Your proposal to get back on schedule with bug testing contains the line, "As a valued client we would like to extend to you the opportunity to run the latest version of our software before widespread release."
2. Your confirmation messages read, "You are attempting to do something stupid. Would you like to cancel this request, or would you like me to send a notification to the system administrator containing the last 7 days of your browsing history?"
1. Any statement which begins, "A Klingon warrior...".
I say we ship it!
"Well, my email is working, so it must be a problem on your end."
But WHAT is going to be done? WHEN will it be fixed?
"Hmm, let me check our mail server - well, everything seems OK there, let's see if the problem is on your computer."
The investigation is CONTINUING.
Now, to make the FIRST response into a CONTINUING investigation....
"Well, my email is working, LET'S SEE IF THE PROBLEM IS on your end."
There, that doesn't sound so annoying now, does it?
Most times, it isn't the response, it is the whether the end-user feels that his problem will be fixed and how soon.
I personally think that the most annoying thing about some people in IT is their total absence of verbal skills.
For instance, in a previous company where I worked, some of the IT employees could only communicate to other people in the same office via HotMail Messenger, Yahoo! Messenger or some other instant messaging tool. *EVEN* when the person they are talking to is sitting less than a yard away.
And when you try to talk to such people using normal vocal means, they would give you a blank stare, a long pause where they attempt to remember how to talk and eventually they may find it within themselves to say "Umm... can you IM email instead?"
Very frustrating!
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
see subject
and who are they? its so annoying! I mean, IT people???
One thing is different: when the jerks in suits act this way, we're supposed to sit still, say "Yes, sir! Yes Ma'am", swallow whatever crap they're serving, and like it! Yes, I do annoy those who abuse me. Deliberately. It's most fun when they are so stupid, they don't realize they've been insulted until later.
Nice ploy! You don't fool me - I know you only posted all that stuff to smoke out all the annoying people who would point out that...
...you don't spell grammar like that.
No, you don't get me that easy!
Just so you know, "Peace by superior fire power" only works when the firepower isn't so tied up in Iraq that we couldn't use it for real threats. Sean Hannity and the other righties always talks about the evils of appeasement, yet they urged us to start a War of Aggression. Hence they either wanted everyone else to practice appeasement, or wanted us to be invaded. Yet the people who would use the military for PROTECTION, are the ones that hate America?!
I'm not an IT guy, but I can see both sides of this issue. Who sets the standards for behaviour?
Do "annoying" people annoy each other?
I'm sure I've been annoying at times (as I probably am now.) Cleaning toilets is really annoying, but hopefully someone is brave enough. When I'm annoying, maybe I'm doing what needs to be done?
If I'm ever annoying, maybe it's because some moron has annoyed me?
Again, I am NOT an IT guy, but as an engineer I too often get interrupted with IT questions and problems.
I think those who complain about annoying people are annoying! I'd bet a lot they are the people who preach "celebrate diversity."
Really, we've all been id10t users at one time or another, whether when we were just starting to learn IT or just having a bad day.
So being annoying because you're annoyed by someone who excels in chemistry but can't double-click on an icon is just ridiculous; try asking them how to make some common chemical compounds at home; they can tell you, but would you understand? If you didn't understand, would you be annoyed?
Personally, I'm just happy with the relative few who are willing to admit they know nothing; it beats the IT "master" who calls me and inisists his system is fine. Of course, much of the time his system is hosed, but he won't believe me....
Every client of mine, about 1/3 the men and 3/4 the women have this forced facade of a personality where every syllable is accentuated and they choose words like "Suuperr!! That's just superr!" and it makes me want to kill myself just to listen to. (If you've seen Lost in Translation, think of the blonde that's in Tokyo promoting her movie, and that's what I'm talking about.)
Isn't it funny that the best "actors/actresses", the ones we give Oscars to (usually) are the ones that can come across like they're not acting at all on screen. Genuine people who deliver what they say from who they really are without pre-processing it. But in real life you rarely find these people, everyone's trying to perfect this plastic personality willing to sacrific who they really are just to get a promotion. Even worse is they don't leave it at the job, it becomes permant like tatoo'd makeup. You see them in public or even talking with their "friends" and it's the same fake-speak, forced body language. I feel sorry for the lemmings. How did we get reversed to where Jack Nicholson in The Shining is a far more realistic person than Jenny Smith over in accounting?
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
Look... It's really very simple. It's just a little thing called LANGUAGE. The one thing that separates humans from animals is the ability to process symbols. Humans can. Animals can't. Animals process signs rather than symbols. Animals see changes in the weather and sense that winter is coming. Humans that have never seen winter can learn from another human that has seen winter how to prepare for it by conversing about it.
:-)
Computers are essentially nothing *but* symbolic (in a numeric sense). In reality, they're just dumb electronic machines. It takes a *Human* to superimpose symbolic meaning on it's electromechanical behavior. However, it's behavior is consistent enough and is sufficiently guided by symbolic design such that we take advantage of it's superior speed to make it do very special tasks far removed from it's simple beginnings.
The more the operator thinks in terms of symbols, the greater success is had and lesser effort is required to achieve a useful result. Think of it: Code is symbolic. Therefore, error messages are inherently symbolic. Ah, but it takes a user to demand an icon! Pretty pictures and pleasant sounds... Until something goes WRONG! Then... The dreaded, scary popup dialog box! Something that comes along and just shits all over the user's lovely, sanitized, icon-driven experience...
Why is the current state of popular computing warped by this mindless, disempowering design strategy? Money. Pure and simple. Who gets caught up in the fray? Us symbolic-thinking, problem-solving, technicians! That's who. Why? Money. We need it. We have to eat. We'd probably treat this as just a hobby if it weren't for the fact that we got the bright idea that we could do it for money. And there's the rub.
So... What's a smart guy to do? Kiss every user's ass and try to be less annoying (inherently smart/technologically empowered/free thinking)? It's a choice. We all have to make it...
You could simply be yourself at all times, but be prepared to take the brunt of abuse from clueless idiots that couldn't get by without people like you. It's like painting a bullseye on your forehead. The only alternative is to go into business for yourself, and run the show the right way. Remember the carrot and the stick approach. The carrot is the sexy technology. The stick is the forced training classes. However, this kind of thing NEVER flies unless it's enforced from the top. That's why it has to be your company for it to work.
Anything less is HELL. I know. Don't expect simple, knee-jerk, icon-driven users to think like technicians. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It won't work and it'll just annoy the pig. Let's just get rid of the drone class called USERS. Vow to never again let another non-technician ever touch a computer. Just think of it... Why is everything computer-related considered a do-it yourself project?!? Money. Greedy little computer companies selling dreams of sexy technology to computer idiots with money. Of course something will go wrong eventually... And it's that same money that will draw us suckers into the mix. Let the former users become "computer-service-consumers". If they need a report or printed document, let them pay a computer-using, computer-technician professional produce it! Users have money. They don't have computer-based expertise! They don't want the (true) grief (of using real computers) anyway! Turn every user's computer into a toaster! Let them call a word-processing department and have them create a document for them. It will save them tons of grief *and* still serve to separate them from their money! AND, IT WILL CREATE TONS OF I.T. JOBS! I can see it now... An I.T.-service-driven economy! Charge them for every change-order! Nickel and dime them to death! (An evil grin slowly forms while hands rub together vigorously) MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!
God... After taking years of abuse from cluseless idiot users, the dot-bomb market crash, and being unemployed the two years thus losing my house... I feel much better now.
There's a douche at work with one of those super-loud mac keyboards.. Sometimes I feel like walking over there and smashing it and his hands with a sledgehammer.
Peppering conversation with technical jargon... oh my!
What about peppering conversation with business or marketing jargon.
It would seem to me that the message of the article is it's ok for business, markerting and financial types to act according to type, but God forbid that a techy should act according to type.
Business discussions use business language.
Marketing discussions use marketing language.
Financial discussions use financial language.
Technical discussions must now use baby talk, lest we annoy... read, expose areas of ignorance... within the other disciplines.
Who's annoying?... Writers of pap populist biz articles.
All this article is saying is that IT people often don't consider the feelings of others, and that in order to be less annoying, they have to consider the other person to be a person who deserves to be listened to and be respected.
:) But I look back on my self when I was younger and wonder how I could have been so bone-headed. Part of my problem was that my parents didn't have much social sense. Another part was that I didn't have other people patient enough to sit me down and explain certain things to me. But I think the biggest part of my problem was that I just wasn't ready to understand these things. I was pretty stupid. I had to learn to actually PAY ATTENTION and CARE.
Gosh, can we get any more basic than that?
I mean, I get annoying some times, but when I am, I usually realize I've done it and try to note it and learn not to do it again. This isn't rocket science. Even many young children seem to be able to pay attention to the feelings of others and consider the consequences of their actions before they do or say something.
The caveat here is that I didn't learn these basic social skills until I was in my 20's.
So, those are the key ideas here:
1) PAY ATTENTION to the feelings of others and how you affect them.
2) CARE about the feelings of others and how you affect them.
The article says that IT people should improve their communication skills in order to communicate more effectively with other people.
BUT! There is an underlying assumption that the IT person's communication skills are sub-standard.
What if it is the OTHER person's skill that is sub-standard. Well, the easy solution is to say that if the IT person was an even BETTER communicator, then s/he could compensate for the failings of the other person.
From the article: "If I'm dealing with a [nonintuitive] person, I need to put things in concrete language. This person doesn't want abstractions."
Now, the REAL PROBLEM is that it is MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to develop expert skills than it is to develop average skills.
So it will ALWAYS be easier to blame the IT people for not having excellent communication skills than it is to realize that LOTS of people have POOR communication skills (and they're not all in IT).
Again, that quote from the article...
The person you are talking to understands ONE approach and is UNWILLING to work at grasping a different approach...
So YOU have to be able to handle BOTH (or more?) approaches, re-phrase the material in either (any?) format and be able to determine WHICH approach the other person is locked into BEFORE you annoy him/her by repeating your material.
Wouldn't it be so much easier for the other person to come up to an average level of understanding of abstract concepts?
Rather than the IT person becoming an expert in BOTH concrete and abstract forms of communication?
It's just a tool. Not a religion.
Theo de Raadt
"I personally think that the most annoying thing about some people in IT is their total absence of verbal skills."
/flicks wrist
Written communication is without compare for rational interloucation, you ignominious simpleton.
Written communication is readily amenable to maintaining an immutable and precise record of the transaction. The pithy annals of history constitute our foremost weapon in the eternal battle against ignorance, pity, and sloth.
Written communication further affords me the opportunity to straightforwardly demonstrate my intellectual superiority. By substituting the m@rk1ng5 of the cerebral intelligentsia for the inferior "characters" favored among the intellectual peasantry, while concurrently dispensing wisdom more rapidly than your puny faculties provide you the capacity to process - much less apprehend - I am at every moment assured that you will know your place beneath me, little man, and dare neither to venture nor peer beyond it.
You linger?
Arise from your knees, peasant. Your presence amuses me no longer.
Return to "Quality" Assurance from whence you came, or I shall call the guards to dispose of you.
Read this post
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Is basically, we IT people, should dumb it down for the rest of the world so they don't feel bad because they're relatively stupid.
I think that sums it up.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
something like:
As much as you're going to hate this, in this scenario the IT user is the poor communicator
As a disinterested third party (a non-support person who does understand computers), let me suggest that it's not that simple. In the particular dialog that started this thread, I think both parties are at fault. Sure, the support guy was rude and unsupportive. But the user was deliberately being a dimwit. If you use a computer as a regular part of your job, it should be part of your job to A) know the basics of how to operate it, and B) at least know enough to read the warnings or take notes when something unusual occurs.
When I was a kid, most cars had meters on the dashboard, showing things like oil pressure and engine temperature and such. Things that most people really don't need to operate the vehicle. Well, we have a cult of ignorance in this country, and so the meters were replaced with "idiot lights". But some people find these lights distracting, so they tape over them. That's ok if it's your own car, and you don't mind replacing your engine every 5000 miles. But when you're driving a company car, you have some responsibility to keep an eye on things and make sure the engine doesn't explode. If you tape over the idiot light, and as a result, the engine is destroyed, you deserve the blame. Even if you're not a professional mechanic. So why is it different for computers?
What you're basically saying is that it's always the mechanic's fault when an engine gets blown. Well, sorry, I don't buy that theory. I don't expect your average driver should be able to replace the fuel injection system, but I do expect them to be able to recognize when the fuel gauge is approaching 'E', and to not stall out on the freeway because there's no gas. I do expect them to notify their mechanic when the idiot light comes on, rather than covering it and driving till the engine dies.
Here in Britain there was a popular BBC sitcom, filmed documentary-style, set in the office of a Slough paper merchant called Wernam Hogg. Most of the time it's about the boss being a total wad, but one one episode we did encounter the IT staff, which consists of a single technician-type called Simon. Observe:
.........
Tim: Alright Simon? (secretly pretends to decapitate him from behind his back) How's it going?
Tim: er... what are you doing with my computer?
Simon: Umm... it's not *your* computer is it? It's Wernam Hogg's.
Tim: Alright, what are you doing with Wernam Hogg's computer?
Simon: You don't need to know.
Tim: No, I don't need to know, but could you tell me anyway?
Simon: *sigh* I'm installing a firewall.
Tim: Okay, What's that?
Simon: It protects your computer against script kiddies, data collectors, viruses, worms *and* trojan horses and it limits your outbound Internet communications. Any more questions?
Tim: Yes. How long will it take?
Simon: Why, do you want to do it yourself?
Tim: No, I can't do it myself. How long will it take you, out of interest?
Simon: It'll take as long as it takes.
Tim: How long did it take last ti.... ?
Simon: It's done.
Tim: Right, thank you.
Simon: Now, I'm going to switch it off. When it comes back on it'll ask you to hit Yes, No or Cancel. Hit Cancel. Do *not* hit Yes or No.
Tim: Right.
Simon: Did you hear what I said?
Tim: Yep.
Simon: What did I say?
Tim: Hit Cancel.
Simon: Good.
Now, obviously most IT staff aren't quite that bad, but the fact that it's been satirised in this manner suggests that is the general opinion of IT staff among non-IT people. This doesn't bode well.
I personally have the experience of replacing a previous freelance IT consultant for a small firm -- too small to have their own in-house IT staff. After working for a few weeks, one of the staff commented that they are a lot more relaxed around me than they were around the old guy, who apparently was very condescending and acted, apparently, like Simon above. I don't really consider myself to have *excellent* social skills, but I get by. I find it distasteful that society has such a low opinion of IT staff in general because of people like my predecessor and Simon from The Office. Why is it that the same stereotypes aren't applied to any other profession?
It would be helpful if we opened up ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Refuge). I think it's a mistake not to. And I would urge you all to travel up there and take a look at it, and you can make the determination as to how beautiful that country is."
-George W. Bush, at a White House Press conference, March 29, 2001
Me thinks old GW may actually have been correct on this one. The part of ANWR that they want to drill for oil is very shitty land; it isn't pretty and is overrun by mosquitos most of the year. It's a miserable place.
... is a moron. Obviously he confuses being annoying with being correct. Yes, I do mix technical lingo into my everyday conversations, but that's what makes me me. I know of a lot of people, in different walks of life, who do the same thing. I don't find them annoying, I start searching online and try to learn exactly what they were talking about. Lots of different people know lots of different things. I am one of those people who want to know everything, and I do everything I can to do just that. I know about law, medicine, computers, sports, music, etc. I think the writer needs to take a step back, realize that people know different things, and that if all he wants to do in his life is say how people different from him are annoying, fine, but if he wants to be an informed citizen, he should definately try to learn everything he can.
As an IT person, I find a few of the complainers annoying. Take, for example, Ellen Gottesdiener's statement that business people have a right to change their minds. Yes, they do, and I don't mind that. Change is a fact of life. What I find highly annoying, though, is that those same business people refuse to acknowledge that they changed their minds. They change their minds, don't bother to tell me they have or what the new decision is, then squawk when I'm still working based on the old decisions and then squawk more when I tell them the changes will take more time because I've got to go back and re-do work that's already done.
Another is Gerry McCartney. Certainly often there's no one right answer. The problem is, usually IT doesn't get the luxury of budget and schedule to cover every possible answer. At that point it's supposed to be the business people's responsibility to decide which answer they want to go with, so IT can get on with the job of implementing it. It's horribly annoying when they won't do that, or even indicate priorities so IT can work on the most important (to the business people) stuff first.
The final annoyance is when business people expect me to respect them but they refuse to respect me in return. I was hired to solve technical problems. The business people were hired to solve business problems. If you've got business constraints on the acceptable solutions, don't come to me asking only for the technical solution and then whine when my answer isn't the one you have to have. If there's constraints, tell me what they are so I can factor them in. And be prepared if I have to tell you that there aren't any solutions to your problem that'll actually work that also meet the constraints (real-world example: you want a vehicle with 3750 cubic feet (25x15x10) and 80,000 pounds of cargo capacity, under the constraint that it has to fit into a compact-car parking space). If there's non-technical factors that dictate the solution then don't bother asking me, and don't blame me if the dicatated solution doesn't work.
IE doesnt support blink, you're thinking netscape and Mozilla.Man, the MS bashing has hit a new low when people are attributing Moz/Netscape stuff to MS.
http://webdesign.about.com/library/tags/bltags-
everyone and everything else can be annoying too. You can't get really get away from annoyances. It's a part of life. Even right now, my computer fan is annoying me! :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
IT people are annoying because: - they treat non-IT people (including engineers, scientists, and software developers) as idiots - they assume niche knowledge of IT = brilliance and lack of it = stupidity - they think they have the hardest, most intellectually challenging job in the world - they laugh at "users" - they have a "I'm better than you" attitude Actually I shouldn't say *all* IT people are like this, because I know quite a few that actually care about what they do, enjoy helping others, and have respect for others. However, coincidentally or not, those same few do exclusively "behind the scenes" work such as server administration, network stuff, or mail environment stuff.
The people who carry this question that far (as in the article) are the really annoying ones. They're the corporate-culture-nazis, PHBs, HR-types with w-a-a-a-a-y too much time on their hands.
It's one thing too say that being uber-geek with non-geeks is annoying, or arrogance is annoying, or bad hygiene is annoying.
But some of the quotes are way over the top, talking about how we all must constantly monitor EVERY word and mannerism, in ANY company, or else risk contaminating the entire work environment.
These are the same ass-kissing back-stabbing political types who constantly use language like "proactive", "incentivize", "realign", "laser focus", "customer-centric", "team players", "challenge", etc.
Oh, and my favorite -- there are no "problems", only "issues" and "concerns".
Steve W.
or
Steve J.?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Not everybody likes the same music as you. Get a pair of headphones, or else turn your damn radio off.
Yes, I'm speaking to you, Frank F. Fincken III.
Users are annoying too.
... it's always "the internet's down" or something equally catastrophic.
I've never heard a user say "My email doesn't work" (as in the article)
To which of course i will respond with something terribly smart assed.
Whatever. Most people are fucking annoying and stupid. Some IT people are incredibly annoying, especially the ignorant ones who think they know everything, usually they are the corporate trained ones.
Yes.
jwz
Yes, annoying *Click* *Click* by counter-pointing *Click* every comment *Click* by *Click* *Click* 'ing my pen.
*Click*
#3
;) we still keep in contact, turns out he is a great board gamer.
Sometimes someone won't know about those other ways.
Systems are very complex. the fact that you may know theminside and out doesn't change that they are complex.
When I was a Jr.(this is before searcg engines) I was working on a system. I kept asking for very specific help on how o do something. I just didn't understand ihow it worked, so invariably I would ned to ask for help on something that would be kinda the same.
Finaly the developer I was pestering(yes it had gotten that bad) said "Why don't you look up 'X', i don't have time for your crap.", and walked off.
Well, I didn't know about that, so I went to a tech books store, got a book and spent the night reading about 'X'.
The next day, I bought him lunch as a thank you for telling me about it, cause I had no idea. I made him pay the tip becasue he was an ass when he told me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Information Technology is a field often unique in a corporate workplace because #1. It's usually a liability and rarely a balance sheet asset, that is to say, IT makes money by saving money, #2. IT will consume all resources available, #3. IT speaks a different language.
:)
Many IT people rarely have the most advanced toolset available due to #1, are often pissed at management due to limitations on #2 and are often misunderstood due to #3.
IT people act as the bridge between the world of the tools and people and it is very important that IT people have solid customer service skills, only the customers are coworkers.
As one administrator overseeing 100 machines, 2 websites, and facilities, I often became overloaded in my last position and garnered a bad attitude which unfortunately made my job harder as people became less communicative about their technical problems and made my deductions more difficult.
The best way to find out what is wrong with a machine is to #1. know your network and #2. ask. If email is no longer working, what were they doing before it happened? What other problems have they been having recently?
It's important the users do not feel foolish or somehow ignorant, for while they are, IT would not appreciate having accounting come down and babble about depreciation schedules as related to long-term profitability and delaying purchases through the end of the fiscal quarter. I would rather hear "we can't afford it right now", much as the user would rather hear, "oh yeah, that sucks, let me come over and look at it as soon as I get a chance. If you could remember what you were doing when it happened, that would help me out a lot in getting you back up."
Remember, the users' jobs are to do work and IT's job is to make it so they can do that work. While a broken machine sucks for us, it prevents the users from achieving their goals... which in the long-term, engangers our jobs as well as theirs.
As long as I had enough energy, I treated my users with respect, encouraging them to call me on the weekends, stopping by if I was nearby and checking to make sure chronic problems were remaining resolved, and sending out emails that let everyone know exactly what was going on in plain english.
And they loved me, they said I was the best admin they'd ever dealt with and they appreciated how much work I put into not just to making the tool work but also into making disruptions as pleasent as possible. Heck, when things were slow, I had them bring in their own laptops for maintainence and all the rest.
What did I get out of it? In two years, my salary doubled (it started a little below average and ended very nicely), we got a lot done technically on a very tight budget (buying as many solid-state components as possible used with warranties), and spent a fraction of what we should have because everyone understood what we needed to do and was in on it... even though I was the only admin.
I graduated with a degree in Psychology and it has made me more valuable than all the certifications in the world because I know that the machine is just a total and the real focus should be on the users. If you can make the machines work for the users instead of the users for the machines, your life will be infinitely better IMHO.
On a coda, I left the field; too stressful. I'm in marketing now and enjoying it. While I miss the thrill of bringing a new server up, installing a new service and watching it's resource use graph climb, or something as simple as replacing shitty mice with nice mice, I don't miss the long hours and the stress. I do miss my users though. I knew everyone in the company, their work hours, and was one of the few to be able to name them all forward and backward.
Customer is king yo, customer is king.
There's too much politcal correctness. I can't say one thing to person "A". I can't say something else to person "B". God only knows what I can't say to a female co-worker. I can't keep up with it all, so my goal is to be equally annoying and/or outright abusive to everyone I come in contact with. That way, no one can claim to be singled out.
Fork 'em if they can't fake a choke!
The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power. -- Daniel Webster
"....I realize there's a difference between doing someone else's job and just helping out. I know, because at some point in a project I worked on, some other guy needed help at an increasing rate. It didn't take too long until this help was needed at least twice an hour. And he expected me to abort anything I did, just to help him out..."
I feel your pain, because I've been in a situation where a team member had to be carried most of the time. Except in this case, *I* was the one being carried
I had moved 200 miles / 4 hours drive from my home town for this job, basically because I was desperate. At interview I'd been asked, and had agreed, to stick around for a minimum of two years - nothing binding, just old fashioned honour kinda thing.
I soon discovered that I was in way over my head. At first I'd sort of dismissed my sense of unease as stress caused by living in a new place and just the change of job. Time passed, and it became apparent that somehow the pieces weren't falling into place at work. I just couldn't figure out how this enormous app. slotted together: Some of the legacy C code in there was fifteen years old, and communicated between modules via enormous global structs. I spent an awful lot of time summoning the courage to say "Hey X, got any idea about...", "Hey man I know you're pushed but how the hell do you..." etc, etc, etc.
God, how I hated it! It was humiliating and stressful and left me feeling just worthless and stupid. I felt like a cripple who had somehow ended up playing for the Dallas Cowboys. All my teammates were sprinting and passing like champs, while I could score only if the ball was handed to me and I was physically carried over the line.
I lasted about a year, producing only a very few features of note. One morning, my team lead sat with me. Things had been worse than usual, we were approaching a ship date, and despite my best efforts the length of my bugs list was only just constant. He had a printout of my bugs list and we went through it - he just wanted my best guess what the cause of each problem was. If I didn't know, he'd just say "Okay" and move on. Strange - his usual response to "I don't know" was "Why not!" - I started to smell a rat right then. The veep of development came over and asked me to step into his office me and my lead went in and before I sat down I placed my notebook on the table. The veep said "You won't need that". That was when I realised I was finally free - and so were my (now) ex-team mates.
This was five years ago. I've been with my current firm for three years, and ironically, I'm now one of the people that the less experienced guys turn to for advice. When I'm under pressure and someone wants assistance, I've never forgotten what it's like to be the one needing help.
Annoying coworkers list:
Nosy people. The ones who notice every new outfit, ask without fail every day what you did the night before, who you're having lunch with, etc. These are the same people that ask you how much your raise was and you have to act like an ass when you don't want to tell them...
Know it alls who DON'T know it all. The ones who are afraid of looking like they don't know what they're talking about, when they think they do. That's scary. Sometimes this behavior is pathological. The easiest way to weed these people out is make something up (like the name of a movie) and ask if they've seen it. If they nod and say yes, there's your wanna be know it all. Of course, using this tactic might get you labelled an asshole so beware.
The gossip. I hate gossips who critisize other coworkers and try to get you to play along. The loaded question, "So, what do YOU think about so and so?" and they stare at you as if you should immediately divulge all the dirt. These people usually end up being marginalized as if they're talking bad about others, one can only imagine what they're saying about YOU.
The whiner. Nothing bugs me more than a coworker that can't get their job done because something's wrong, and that something is never them. The light's too bright, the light's too dim, and it all comes back to the job being a crappy place to work and the management sucks. It's a job, not a health spa!
Its really hard to not be annoying when users are so intentionally annoying.
"How come my coffee cup holder wont slide out when I push the button"
"Where is the any key"
Come on!! This goes beyond ignorance, I know lobotomized people that have more sense than this!!!
"else if(x == ?){ do something to magically find the correct "shade of gray" }"
Umm. I believe what you are looking for already exists. It's formulated:
else {
}
Do you read
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
What you're basically saying is that it's always the mechanic's fault when an engine gets blown.
Problem is that people refuse to take their cars into a mechanic because they can't afford to pay an inflated labor bill.
("EUR" is supposed to be a C with a superimposed =. Blame Slashcode.)
"It must be the firewall."
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
get drunk
Miserable to humans that is. Maybe that's why they don't call it the Arctic National Human Refuge.
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They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
Oh wait, I thought this was a poll...
I'm a 2000 man.
People who try to pigeonhole everyone in the world into some small set of discrete personality types are ... annoying.
I hate people who want to be spoon-fed the answers.
Then how would you react in the following exchange?
Her: "How do you use dd?"
You: "Well, it's documented in the man pages."
Her: "I know, but I thought I'd ask you because the last five times I've tried to read a man page, I couldn't make head nor tail of it."
People who blame the software.
Back in about the days of Mozilla 0.8 through the 0.9.x series until about 1.2, I fell into that category, finding a bug nearly every week. I agree with Mozilla.org's policy for reporting bugs in tools that translate data: require the reporter to demonstrate the problem in a minimal test case.
Something doesn't work exactly as it seems it should, so they try a few variations - maybe - and then they run for help.
In what reference, written in plain English, are people supposed to look up the other variations to try before calling you?
THINK about what you're doing
What if somebody has already thought about what he or she is doing but, after failing to happen to think of the right solution, calls you?
It is true that English is constantly evolving. There's no question about it, and it isn't just in the area of vocabularly, either. "Billy" Shakespeare's grammar takes a lot of effort for someone raised in the 20th or 21st centuries. Point taken.
That does not imply that therefore anything goes in language. To extend the evolution metaphor, not all language mutations are viable offspring. AND, in my opinion, the current mutation of "irony" tends towards confusion. Here's why: "irony" is a technical term in the literary profession, just like "gigabyte" is a technical term in the computer profession. If "irony" gets redefined or even extended through common usage, it becomes inrementally more difficult for literary discussions to take place with clarity.
Much the same problem has happened when the term GB was redefined by the hard-drive industry to mean "1 000 000 000 bytes", which allowed them to inflate their capacity claims. Few were fooled, but it made purchasing hard drives more annoying, because it required reading the fine print just to find out how much storage was actually on the drive.
So, while I agree with the general idea of an evolving language, I would hold that technical terms should be considered "reserved words."
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
As the article so aptly pointed out some things which are annoying to one person simply breeze by another. The corollary of this statement is that no matter what you do it is guaranteed that someone somewhere will be annoyed by it.
You took ten minutes to:
1) Listen to the "problem".
2) Run up telnet twice.
High five, speedy!
And right now you're busy trying to talk yourself out of a job? The Article's right, IT people ARE annoying. And stupid.
I can't mod myself down :} Would someone please mod me down? Or, you could look at it from another viewpoint, that an annoying post is ontopic for a thread titled, "Are you annoying?" And mod it up, but I would prefer that it be modded down. But I guess I didn't express anythin worth expressing so probably mod down.
Blech. I do feel kinda sick.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Too bad you misused 'vulgar.' You should see it is an adjective.
How do you train the user that calls helpdesk when they realize they haven't received email for two hours, then insists the computer is broken, then argues with helpdesk for twenty minutes after they have been asked to click the send/receive button. This type of person almost invariably will go on about how the heldesk associate was rude and annoying because the user doesn't have the maturity to deal with being wrong, or in this case, a total moron.
Ditto for the people that have someone from IT paged as if were an emergency everytime paper jams in the printer when they could have resolve the problem by opening the printer to pull out the paper, using the paper feed, refilling the machine with paper, or simply using another one of the other ten printers in the department.
IT people can be annoying. We have to deal with a lot of stupidity entirely unrelated to the newbie syndrome that is used as a scapegoat to such stupidity because people don't use their brains. At the same time a very large percentage of users find IT people annoying because helpdesk pointed out a very simple solution to their problem and the user just realized how stupid they were.
Then there is management that finds the entire IT department to be annoying because the IT staff has advised them there is no such thing as a $5.00 solution for a $25,000 problem.
And we have a winner...
What if benefits people did the same, cut off dental because you were having trouble with billing.
Revenge isn't a de-escalatory reaction and the problem is that, if and or when these people find themselves in a situation where they can retaliate, they will.
That people have a 'tact' filter. Some people filter inbound, some people filter outbound, some people filter both ways (rare), and some people don't filter at all.
Non-IT people tend to filter outbound - they don't say something for fear of offending someone. Not always the case, certainly, but by and large that's my experience.
IT people tend to filter inbound. In the days of yore, it wasn't uncommon to see discussions where "What are you, stupid?" was said, and generally it wasn't taken personally. It was just one of those things that was understood.
These days, there's more of a mix of people fitting the inbound vs. outbound filtering groups, and that leads to problems in business.
This article does a pretty decent job of highlighting one of the things I find to be the most ironic about IT personnel (and I have been one for almost 15 years now) - they tend to get into the business because they don't have to deal with people and don't want to. Yet IT work these days requires more interaction with people, not less.
Take Directory Services technology; according to Burton Group's studies, implementation of directory services technologies is 80% politics and 20% technology. The technology isn't really that difficult, but getting agreement between the various groups who own parts of the data about who owns particular pieces of data requires a fair amount of negotiation and people skills.
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
...that article was annoying.
I consider it important to NOT be annoying to my clients. It's part of my wanting to retain my clients. I see it as my job to help my clients' people understand computers, and being annoying would undermine that goal. Having said that, though, I probably am annoying in general to other people, but not my clients!
No, we didn't change any firewall rules, we just re-enabled the same ruleset.
Wow, so then it something else right? Except mysteriously after notifying the firewall guys the problem disappears suddenly without reason.
Similarly, is the "the firewall doesn't affect an app if we open the ports for that app" Really?
Because I have the same app running internally, no problems or down time in 2+ years and the exact same config except that it has one of the machines on the DMZ has problems all the time. No firewalls never fuck up stuff, yeah they never cut off "unused" connections improperly, against the RFC rules for closing a connection. CORBA sucks but that doesn't let the firewall off the hook.
I will now be subject to the standard firewall guy explaination that it is not the firewall it is that all these apps don't actually code their network stuff correctly.
I know this thread is laid to waste... but I need to vent, so deal with it...
Around my cube I have 8 neighbors...
1) 20s White Male - listens to his headphones and drums on his desk with his pens... occationally kicks the back of the cube every few beats... likes to talk to his mommy and wife or both at least every 60 minutes. Thinks that in order to speak with non-native English speakers you need to yell at them loudly. Did I mention the customers he supports are in Taiwan?
2) 20s White Male - not annoying at all... yeay!
3) 50s Fat White Male - eats non stop during the day... favorite food is apples, so I listen to him crunch apples aaaaaaaalllll day long. All the fiber tends to make him a bit flatulant... he's shameless when letting them rip... they're loud and stink and he "giggles" after a loud one... occationally calls out "sorry!" if it's loud and instantly smelly.
4) 20s Asian Female - Probably the most attractive female in this section of the building... which means she has non-stop male visitors who come by to "say hi"... when she's not talking, she's eating and making disgusting slurping noises...
5) 40s White Male - nice guy... makes some weird noises occationally, but 99% of the time he's quiet...
6) 40s Asian Male - very nice guy... clips his nails at his desk... yeeeeccchhh
7) 50s White Male - laughs like count dracula (not a joke, he's just a freak), looks like the news reporter on sesame street when he talks (i.e. jaw stays stationary and the top of his flops and pivots while he talks). Clips his nails at his desk... big problem there-- he gets distance out of the nails. I've found one laying on my desk and/or floor occationally. I've vowed to beat him to death with a power cord if one lands while I'm in the cube.
8) 40s White Female - Very nice, but has a very long and drawn out "fake" laugh that she uses constantly... gets on your nerves if you're already stressed out from the other freaks.
We also have at least "cougher" on any given day... which is someone who has a combination of AIDS/TB/Polio/Herpes and is coughing as though this is the last 10 minutes of their life...
whew... I feel a bit better... I like to think that I'm like #2... I don't make any noise... I stay off the phone except for business, and even then I try to stay quiet... never listen to music loud, and when I do listen I don't drum or pump my leg to the music... never eat at my desk or perform personal grooming acts...
Make a division between "IT people" and "business people", then make the assumption that the business person is always right and therefore his annoyance is the fault of the IT person. Write an article about it in a magazine for IT people. That's just trolling.
...And IT folks often require the "right" decision, says Gerry McCartney, CIO at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School in Philadelphia.
I'll tell you want is annoying: going through three interviews for an IT job at Wharton and then never hearing from them again. Not even a "You sucked, move along." or "We've chosen another candidate."
And this from a prestigeous business school?
(Yes, I'm sure they didn't hire me because of my horrid spelling skills. Or because I need such black and white answers such as "You are hired." or "You are not hired.")
It's not so much that I'm annoying, as it is I'm always right and they just refuse to believe me.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
No room here though, so read it here.
** Heller
would be a world where everyone huddled in a corner, fearful that *anything* **might** ***possibly*** annoy someone.
When did America become such a nation of wimps.
Go down to the local pawn shop and buy a pair of brass balls 'fer cris'sake.
i wish these people would fucking stop:
- using clicky keyboards: i love them too, but i hate listening to someone elses.
- stomping your feet while on the phone: i'm sure the call is amazing, but do i really need to know?
no.
Here's a free hint.
If it comes to changing you vs changing the rest of the company, it is easier to change you.
And if change does not work, if it comes to replacing you vs replacing the rest of the company, it is easier to replace you.
A very enlightening exercise for most IT people is to really learn what it takes to do some of the other jobs that you see out there, and find out whether you could do their jobs. If you do this exercise honestly, you'll find very quickly that your employer needs a lot of people with a lot of skills and abilities that you simply don't have. For instance spend an hour cold calling. Or talk to a lawyer about what is involved in becoming a lawyer.
You may be the best in the world at what you do. That skill may be very necessary. It may be well-compensated. But you're still only a cog in a corporate machine. And frankly, if the janitor does his job poorly, it will be noticed faster than if you screw up.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
And IT is weird, non-natural stuff that nobody else wants to deal with on a full-time basis.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
On another instance I did an hour and a half round trip to type a persons surname into a login prompt - since the person's supervisor would let me talk to them directly and refused to pass on a message. I'm sure they were annoyed by me assuming I knew the solution to the problem without seeing the screen.
Since then, whenever I need to log into a MS Windows machine I always type the clients login name into the box after I have finished - just the same as what they see when they turn the computer on.
I'm very good at annoying accountants - they cannot concieve of the idea of building an ordinary PC from parts, and the paperwork involved consumes far more time than assembling the PC - so it probably would end up cheaper to buy one assembled for an extra hundred or two. When IDE cables and mice are listed as assets it's time to duck and cover - and if you put a low end machine together out of mostly spares, it gives accountants the horrors.
Oh, was it that easy, hacking the Windoze registry via some dinkypoo remote desktop? How many times do you have to reboot and pray it comes back up? Why don't people actually do this instead of walking down to the user's desk. If what you say is true, fortune 500 companies would not waste money walking techs around.
Then again, they are running windoze, so they must be stupid.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I tried to run bash on a windoze box, but it could not find the command.
Microsoft is an embarrassment and nothing can be more annoying than using it on a daily basis except having to babysit people who forced to use it. It's a losing game that makes you a liar.
As for medicine, law, and banking, maybe you just haven't been out in the real world much. Plenty of doctors, bankers, and lawyers are royal pains and too annoying to deal with.
I don't have a problem like that nor do most people. The only consistent element of all your unsatisfying relationships is you.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
In the August 6, 2001 National Review, Jonah Goldberg points six key facts.
1. ANWR comprises 19.6 million total acres - the 2,000 acres used for proposed drilling is just 1/100th of one percent of the larger reserve.
2. According to Goldberg, who actually traveled to ANWR (whereas most journalists, environmentalists, and Senators rarely go), there are three large herds of caribou, only one of which roams near the ANWR drilling site and they typically congregate near the pipeline to avoid the large mosquitoes that attack them.
3. Any one working on the reserve can be fired, no questions asked, for even walking out on to the tundra, never mind actually tampering with it.
4. Threatening the animals in any way, even if it's just throwing a rock, is grounds for immediate termination.
5. The entire operation is driven in on wheels by traveling over the ice during the winter months, which preserves the tundra. In addition, with today's innovations in drilling, it is possible to drill over a range of several dozen miles while only making one hole in the ground.
6. The Native American population fully supports this idea because it will bring jobs and income to their struggling communities. The only group opposed to drilling is a group of Eskimos who are hundreds of miles away from the drill site and who stand to not make a dime because there is no oil underneath their land.
This article completely fails to take into consideration the role particular business practices play in creating annoyances for IT users.
/reduce/ the likelihood of further calls in the future? Who cares if that may help to reduce the stress in the workplace arising from people getting frustrated with systems that just seem to behave arbitrarily, because they don't understand them?
/other/ locations.
i've been told time and time again by users how helpful i am, how clearly i explain things, etc. But who cares, when it's expected that one should resolve all queries in an average of 3 minutes? Who cares that maybe, just maybe, taking an extra couple of minutes to explain how a system works might actually
No, calls 'should' be resolved in an average of 3 minutes, and that's that. Otherwise i'm 'obviously' not 'efficient'. Never mind that my 'inefficiency' in one location is actually reducing inefficiency in multiple
Thanks, needed to get that off my chest.
what are you talking about I use the wacky bit all the time!
;)
ex:
#define TRUE 1
#define FALSE 0
#define WACKY rand()
if (WACKY < WACKY) then work()
else screwup()
If any user calls up I can reassure them that it's just the wacky bit they wanted working it's magic
I appeal to the wisdom of fellow
Actually, the tundra is melting, you know, GLOBAL WARMING caused by all of the GREENHOUSES GASES emitted from BURNING OIL, making it impossible to actually drive out there and drill. I'm sure the irony escapes you.
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They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
If you truly believe, or can prove, that a disproportionate percentage of IT workers are "annoying", perhaps you're missing a much more pervasive underlying cause? Perhaps you should investigate the prevalence of giftedness, High-Functioning Autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and similar traits within the technical segment of the industry?
Further, I'd suggest that those who aren't so "afflicted" had better learn to be more tolerant, because IT and in fact the whole of science and engineering would not be what it is without these people, pleasant to work with or not; THEY have the talents that more pleasant and tactful - but average - people lack. The entire history of scientific achievement owes its very existence to these extreme Yin-Yang social outcasts, stretching back to naked-in-the-street Archimedes and beyond.
d00 j00?
That goes for people protocols, too.
I can see how people get annoyed by overuse of jargon or blaming a user for a problem before even taking a look at the underlying issue. I do it sometimes, I try not to but we all do it. But when people get annoyed because I make them make a concrete decision before starting development, it indicates a lack of understanding.
Most people don't have a strong grasp of how computers work. They see an input box or a display of information and they can work with an interface, but they don't have any idea how that information was calculated and presented to them. When they want to add a feature or enhance a capability, they can only explain it to me in terms of the end user interfaces. Since they don't understand the computer, they often make ambiguous requests. If I try to develop based on that kind of request, the end result is never what the user "envisions". So I keep pressing: "Do you want it done like this? Or maybe like this? You realize if I do it this way, this will happen? And then, this can't happen."
I am sure it's annoying and that the user would prefer if the computer could just do everything they want in any way they can imagine. But the computer has no imagination, everything that is developed has to be specifically built for a specific task. Sometimes you get a side effect that allows flexibility (often the illusion of flexibility, with more development required to get the "exact" effect hoped for) but usually you get what you built and nothing more. The need for IT professionals to put everything in terms of black and white may be annoying, but it is a inescapable consequence of the computer's need to put everything in terms of 1 or 0. Many people don't grasp that fact at an intuitive level and I think this is why it gets annoying.
Regular Meta Moderators are not more likely to get mod points.
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