Slashdot Mirror
Are Job Perks Coming into Vogue Again?
Pharmboy asks: "The Register is reporting on a company that was awarded 'Best Small Company to Work for in America' by the Detroit Free Press, in part, for providing Free beer to their employees. They offer free breakfast, lunch AND dinner, gym and snacks. This sounds similar to the late 90s, where companies were offering extreme benefits to attract extreme talent, before the bubble burst and most workers were just glad to have a job. As the job market gains strength, what are companies willing to do in order to attract the best talent? Are we about to enter another era where employers are willing to make work fun again, in order to attract and keep talent? Will this have any effect on other employers, forcing them to again offer benefits to keep pace and talent? How important are these kinds of perks to the average employee anyway? What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?"
Seriously, it seems the job market is only marginally better these days.
The only perks I get... are free soft drinks & training. Oooh, and a fast computer. I want a notebook damit!
Would you really want to hire employees who would be motivated by "free beer?"
I can understand how it could be to a company's advantage to offer free perks, but I can think of dozens (okay, thousands) that would be better for the company than free beer but still motivate employees.
My only job perk is Vogue!
My company isn't that bad to work for... except for the traffic and distance. I think smaller companies are always best, you have better teamwork and the management seems to have a better grasp of whats going on.
Job market getting stronger? I think you'd better go back and check the monthly jobless claims against the (revised downwards, sometimes repeatedly) new jobs reports. The past four years may see a zero gain in jobs, possibly even a net loss in jobs in the US.
People are still getting laid off. The example you cite is an exception; it's nowhere near the norm these days, nor will it be anytime in the near future.
.@.
How about providing healthcare and retirement, seeing these two have been disappearing for quite some time now.
$cat
I'll change the place with free snacks to the place with good psychological cimate and interesting projects in a blink of an eye.
- Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
- Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
See the news today? 32,000 new jobs for July?
I still know too many people who consider a perk actually being paid more then a burger flipper. This is probably one of those exceptional places, where the owner doesn't feel the need to line his pocket and gives something back. See how long it lasts.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Did anyone see the news today? New hires are WAY down... The only perks I've gotten recently:
1. We get to work 200 more hours this year for the same pay
2. More responsibility!
3. Same old free coffee
Woohoo!
did you win a free ipod? build a case for it here
at some danish company
Cafeteria and feeding the employees is nice and all.
What do I consider perks? HOw about a boss that lets me DO MY FSCKING JOB.
This sig no verb.
Free beer... They offer free breakfast, lunch AND dinner... and snacks.
Once you say "free beer", saying "breakfast", "lunch", etc. are redundant.
"Beer" pretty well covers everything.
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
I work for an EXTREMELY large company. For the last four years, our perks have been cut and cut and cut again. Our salary increases have been typically half of cost of living in the years we actually get them. Annual bonuses are gone for good. Training has been cut back to less than acceptable.
Hearing that some companies are starting to give perks again means that the cycle is turning back. I will be so glad to see employers like mine losing all of their best employees next year, because they'll be playing catch-up -- and it will be 'too little, too late' for most of us.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
that to MS as they are going in the opposite direction.
free beer all day, personal hammock, and massages every hour....cant beat bein' a kobe cow....
I work for a small startup in DTC, and one of the nice perks is that the upper-ups keep the fridge and cabinets stocked with drinks and snacks.. a small sugar rush can definately help in some of those late coding nights.
-- Jinsaku
...from 1995 to 2000.
Analytical Graphics is the *best* place I've ever worked.
I left because I wanted to do new things. Gawd I miss that place sometimes!
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics in its July 30 report:
"There was no recession in the second quarter of this year, but BLS data show 131,000 fewer American computer software engineers employed in the second quarter than in the first quarter of 2004--a decline of 15% in three months."
So, I seriously doubt that we are going to get anything at all like the late 90s going on for technical workers.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
HR dude(tte) #1 "Want kind of employess do we want to attract?"
HR dude(tte) #2 "How about the kind who want free beer?"
HR dude(tte) #1 "Yeah! Let's offer a perk that would only attract people who drink a lot!"
by asking for them to arrange for Halle Berry to drop by my place on a regular basis. Obviously in the spirit of negotiation I bring along a list of 200 fit actresses and models I will accept as a substitute if Halle is not available.
It must be said I am not having the greatest of success with this approach at the moment. I guess I have to hope either Catwoman bombs or the market picks up a tad more and in the meantime be happy if they offer me free parking.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Browsing their website, it appears that they are currently looking to hire people for 11 positions. I sense an imminent overload of their mail servers when /.ers all simultaneously attempt to send their resumes.
I guess a good perk would be for the company to buy my plane ticket to India when they outsource my job there.
Language classes would be good too.
There's only one thing I'm allergic to... Sudden Death. (Danger Mouse)
...I'd settle for free as in 'speech'.
They didn't do it to attract employees. They did it to keep them from starving to death. They made 'em work 100 hour weeks, missing large chunks of their lives and the food was just one way to keep 'em from going home. --Raydude
Unlimited free Diet Coke and Coffee.
Flextime is considered a perk at my company.
I know. I worked there for over four years.
Seems many places I've worked shy away from alcohol on their grounds. For fear of the employer providing the drink that puts a driver over the legal limit, the driver has an accident, the person becomes an alcoholic and blames employer, etc., etc.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Then (during the "bubble", yes perks were particularly in vogue). Some of the 90s perks were ridiculous. Netscape was famous for many things, and infamous for some of their perks - onsite free sushi bar, roving free masseuse, etc.
DotComs were offering Ferraris to those who could recruit the most talent. Everyone who was anyone offered stock options.
When the bubble burst, much of the madness was finally seen as madness, and it all went away. That gave many existing companies leverage to take away benefits - "You're lucky to have a job!". Yes and no.
I had a friend who was an attorney for Tandy Corporation (Radio Shack). Tandy paid their attorneys ridiculously low salaries (as in $30k/yr for a real estate attorney). When I asked him what the hell was wrong with them, and why they thought that was appropriate, he told me their response: "These guys are just going to come here for a couple of years and leave anyway, so why should we pay them reasonably?" Duh! Naturally, anyone with talent will move along. That's true in IT as well, and options do still exist. Maybe they involve moving to a new city, but they exist.
Some companies have been doing right all along, and they are rewarded with fierce loyalty and very good productivity. SAS Institute, in Cary, North Carolina, has been providing stellar perks for years. They've remained private, and thus avoided the Quarterly Earnings per Share death-cycle. Imagine if your company had benefits like theirs.
Other companies could be like SAS if they weren't public, and if their leaders understood what some perks could do for their productivity and employee loyalty.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?
I'd switch jobs if the new one was 5 miles closer, or there were more attractive women there.
One big bonus is the amount of spying that management does. I'm currently self-employed. I bill for the work that I do. When I'm working from home, instead of cigarette breaks, I get pr0n and Slashdot breaks. While a queued task is completing, I can stop for a couple of minutes, check the progress of my downloads or the Slashdot headlines and get back to work.
It'll take a fair bit more money than I'm currently making to make me give up this life.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I kinda figured that they were referring to a "free microbrews on a Friday afternoon policy" (a la Microsoft) not a "lets keep the fridge stocked with schlitz policy" (a la IBM).
;-)
Just kidding about IBM...
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Ah, well, perks are cool.
One of my last jobs catered us lunch on Fridays, did the free liquor thing, paid for our healthcare and did a 150% 401k match (Every dollar I put in, they put in 1.50).
This current job is a hell of a lot better though. Sure, they don't have all the real cool perks. Catered lunch was replaced by Donut/Bagel Fridays, there's no company match for the 401k (Until next year), the healthcare isn't free but they do chip in. But I do get some nice perks, mainly the free college education. I can work my way up to a PhD and it's on the company dime. And they take care of me better then the employer with a lot of perks. There's no pay cap. Well, there is, but if you hit the cap for your position, instead of a raise the company will cut you a bonus check for a few thousand. And they give everyone a certain percentage in stock each year. Overall, even though I have less visable perks, the perks I do get, in the end, equals more money. Bonuses, stocks, and a free education hehe.
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
That's awesome. As long as the companies don't overdue it and start going bakrupt, thus, this little 'perk' thing dies off, I don't mind it, but I don't want the companies going down the drain and screwing the job market again just so I can get a few gym sessions but lose my job 2 years down the road.
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
Not much more than when the job market sucked. Wait. That's now.
Are we about to enter another era where employers are willing to make work fun again, in order to attract and keep talent?
No.
Will this have any effect on other employers, forcing them to again offer benefits to keep pace and talent?
No.
How important are these kinds of perks to the average employee anyway?
When you've never seen a perk, or had them all taken away with the knowledge that they aren't coming back, probably not very.
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?
My perk would be to not have to go into work. I would happily switch to a job that paid the same, but wouldn't require me to work. Is Slashdot hiring?
Several employees have corporate gas cards, car allowances (even for non-sales/travelling personnel), corporately paid cell phone bills, corporate laptops, corporate paid internet access, etc.
We do this because we would rather people get something useful than giving half a pay raise to the government. Plus we try and be flexible on work hours (although on the flip-side we are INSANELY timeline sensitive, e.g. work when you want but get it done by Wednesday 9:00am).
I'm noticing a trend with friends at other places as well. It's a win-win in my books.
The US BLS released the news that in July, the economy added a total of 32,000 new jobs, and revised May and June down 71,000. Doesn't sound like gaining strength to me.
...free beer. WHAT? You're kidding. What's the company's name? AGI? I'm applying.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Any other "perks" are for suckers.
But good for any company who can get their employees to work harder, stay longer, and take less money.
So this company is in India right?
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?
Allowed unscheduled bathroom breaks?
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same? Ummm.. How about a chance for a raise within 5 years? My company has halted all raises in the US.
I've been doing that for my employees forever. I never stopped, nor will I. All I ask is that they show up to work on time, and work while they're here. I give all kinds of bennies. Including free colocation (up to a certain bandwidth of course). Gym membership, paid time off to GO to the gym membership. Best Healthcare I can find, Parties, HOMEBREWED beer made by yours truly. 3 weeks vacation time, plus additional time off for any overtime worked that's cumulitive and rolls over from year to year up to a certain point.
:(
What's funny is I have ALL of the same employees I had 5 years ago when I started this. They know their work inside and out and there's very little they can't handle. I wouldn't trade my crew for anything. I like to think I'm a good boss, and I work WITH my employees, not above them....sadly enough, they make more than I do
Sometimes I think employers try to offer "perks" because they are cheaper than offering real incentives, like group insurance plans and retirement help.
I worked for a webhosting company recently called WestHost in their support department, and one of the things that they would do is advertise to potential hires "we offer free pop, and LAN parties!" Then, they would hold this over our heads, and if we didn't perform perfectly and clean up management's messes and smile all the while, we got no LAN parties and they acted like we were not deserving of the free pop.
Oh, and did I mention that they paid us jack crap?
I really would rather be paid more and have no extra 'perks' as long as they treated me right. I will always be willing to work my tail off for an employer who does that.
Economists think that in general, Employees are paid based on their productivity.
If you create lots of value, you get lots of money, if you create less, you get less. On average that must be pretty close to reality, because if you get paid more than what you create, your average company would go bust right away.
Now, if you get "Perks" like Gym, free food etc, that's still coming from your total compensation, and on average just makes your paycheck smaller. That's true for Perks as well as "Free" insurance, Social Security and all the other things that "the employer pays for". If the Employer does not pay for it, you would get that money.
IANAE (I am not an economist)
get 7 free Japanese lessons.
As a W2 contractor- I'd jump for health care in a heartbeat. Training would be nice too.
But on the plus side I'm getting 55% of what the company is charging for my time, even if it is only half what I would bring into the company during the dot com era.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The same pay rate? Where have you been? Pay rates has gone down 30%. If I changed jobs, I'd take a serious cut. For the time being, I have to keep this job.
He's really dead, folks. Google for it yourself.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
but the market is back. I've had 3 job offers in the past month, all of which pay 10 to 20% more than I make now. Today I went to my current employer and told them my situation--- they are going to counter offer.
I think the big perk right now is working from home or at various sites. My current job allows me to work from home 2 days a week. Oh- and I get every other Friday off. One of my job offers has 1/2 days ever Friday. Hopefully I see two trends:
1. Employers are realizing that we have lives and not forcing us to work ridiculous hours. I make more than I have ever made right now and I never work more than 40 hours a week.
2. Employers see the benefit of allowing employees to work off site and/or at home. 2 of the 3 offers I have had offer work at home benefits. My current job allows me to work from home. Nice. Why does a software engineer need to be in the office every day anyway?
Markets go in cycles. We are in a recovery now. Employers are ready to produce again, and in the case of software, that means its time to hire. They realize that outsourcing didn't save them any money, so they are hiring workers right here in the U.S. Good news!
[FromTheMorning]
The US government provides good healthcare, a good retirement plan, and civil service protections that include going home and having a life.
Plus, like the Air Traffic Controllers, many of the original IT gurus are close to retiring.
If you're an intermediate worker bee, you can expect to top out at a GS-12 Step 10, which today pays around $81K in Chicago. Not great, but it's unlikely you'll get laid off.
My father is a blogger.
Being self employeed I give my self my own perks. So for the long hours, sleepless night I get a meal out at the local pub on a Friday. God I'm a cheapskate
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
Disclaimer: I work as a jack of all trades developer in a non-software industry IT department so my answers may not be typical. Just my $0.02.
As the job market gains strength, what are companies willing to do in order to attract the best talent?
Nothing. There are plenty of IS workers looking for jobs.
Are we about to enter another era where employers are willing to make work fun again, in order to attract and keep talent?
No, not until demand for workers exceed supply.
Will this have any effect on other employers, forcing them to again offer benefits to keep pace and talent?
No. See previous answer.
How important are these kinds of perks to the average employee anyway?
Not important. I care about interesting projects, competitive salary, raises and bonuses exceeding the rate of inflation and opportunities for career and knowledge advancement.
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?
Perks take a back seat to everything mentioned in the previous answer.
Any hints on how many of those Jobs in the US of A are now jobs in India? I know the company I work for as a contractor (large network gear company that starts with a C) keeps moving more and more work to India in spite of a number of issues they have discovered.
I hope the company I work for pick up on this trend...
Then I might eventually get free parking and paper towels!
*Grumbles about cheap-ass companies*
My company paid crap, piled on the workloads and made a lot of empty promises. My perk was being driven out by making my life intolerable. The only perks I would like to see is to actually get treated likea human being for a change!
kin242.net
One of the companies I work for gives employees free lunch at a pretty good bar/restaurant on the ground floor of the building every day. Drinks and tip aren't included, but as far as benefits go, that's pretty cool. Hmm.. they did a pretty good burger :) (you can tell I have taste)
Seriously. I get porn delivered to my cube.
It's just all over the place here.
"There was no recession in the second quarter of this year, but BLS data show 131,000 fewer American computer software engineers employed in the second quarter than in the first quarter of 2004--a decline of 15% in three months."
Well to mouth the party line around here. GOOD! That means that all those "doing it only for the money" are getting out, and leaving the field open for those who "just do it for the love" because we all know they deserve those positions more.
Because I don't have the luxury of voting for Bush. I need to put food on my table. I'm one disaster short of bankruptcy.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
From http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snap shots_08042004
"As shown in the figure below, for the past two quarters, the 12-month growth rate of the wage and salary component of the ECI was 2.5%, the slowest ever recorded for this series (ECI data go back to the early 1980s), and even slightly behind inflation for the last 12 months (2.8%). This component of the ECI has not fallen short of inflation since 1995. The trend in wages and salaries tracks labor market conditions fairly closely, slowing consistently throughout the recession and jobless recovery. Other wage series show a similar recent deceleration in the face of persistent slack in the job market (See the July 16 Snapshot for further analysis)."
Oh, and I did check the news today:
The nation's payroll growth slowed dramatically in July with a paltry 32,000 jobs being added_ a potentially troubling sign that the rough patch the economy hit in June was no aberration. The unemployment rate, however, dipped down a notch to 5.5 percent last month, from 5.6 percent in June, the Labor Department reported Friday. The new jobless rate was the lowest since October 2001. The payrolls figure and the unemployment rate can sometimes go in different directions because they are derived from two separate statistical surveys. Economists, however, look more closely at the payroll figure as a better barometer of the health of the jobs market. The 32,000 net jobs added in July represented the smallest gain in hiring since December and followed a revised gain of just 78,000 in June, even less than previously reported. May's payrolls also were revised down to show a gain of 208,000.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
Lots of places provide free beer. Chiron used to roll wheelbarrows down the cubes of good free beer on Friday afternoons.
At my present job, I'd have to provide my own beer but drinking and coding isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Not having to work with complete f*cking imbeciles would be nice.. but I guess that's asking too much of any job, eh?
yeah, go on, mod me off as a troll, you know I'm right.
-- PHB + Claw-hammer embedded in skull = An increased I.Q.
Job perks. Best job perk that I heard recently was that due to "popular demand" they were going to bring back Bagel Wednesday!
Robby Russell
PLANET ARGON
Robby on Rails
I just left a small company. . . Consideration? I think not! the boss only showed up to work to not do anything. Hell, if he didn't show up the day was more productive. Perks? none. . . we didn't even have water at work, bring your own. Well maybe one perk. . . you could get almost any day off. . . oh wait. . . I forgot. . . that was cause frequently you wern't called in to work cause the uper employee's didn't bother to do there job and get work for us grunts. . . result - I want to work in corpruate america (even if I dread how much it will hurt) just so i can get more than 4 hours a week and a , "Sorry, we don't have any work for you!"
...did what you did and now has spent almost 10 years paying it off when she was unable to get telivision and film jobs because they make movies in other countries now and have outsourced all the jobs.
I have 2 friends who have molecular bio degrees and can't get any decent internships to make money because theres no funding for anything. One has continued onto grad school fearing the real world and burdening his parents some more. and the other one works at an asian koi fishery place where they raise koi because he can't get a job.
I look back during the time my parents wanted me to go to school and realize i would have been ROYALLY fucked with NOT A CHANCE IN HELL of getting a job had I gone for a CS degree.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
No, I wouldn't want employees to be motivated by beer. But I would want employees who appreciate a sense of community and who feel they are truly valued. By providing perks at work you get employees will want to reciprocate the treatment they received back to their employer and will feel a pride of accomplishment and a loyalty to their employer. This will translate into increased productivity and profits.
I'm in a similar boat. If my girlfriend loses her job we're moving to oregon or florida. We'll just put everything in a uhaul and leave. Its getting soooo bad. =/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I get laid off every fucking time the market burps.
I'm getting sooooo jaded.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
None of this will happen in Canada
My Karma is so low that even my own postings are beyond my current threshold
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same?
Just some free advice: Unless the perk is worth 15% or more of your salary, don't give up your job for random crap that costs the company nothing.
I'm not saying don't take any risks, but is it really worth having to switch jobs, prove yourself, lose senority, etc in exchange for $3.75 of free popcorn every month because its "cool"?
My dog is in my cubicle with me today.
Unfortunately, it comes with a cost: She has to watch "Animal Planet," as output by one of the digital set top boxes we are testing, and has been trained to whine whenever she sees macroblocking or other artifacts.
Stefan
My only perk is $5.25/hour and some control over when I work (although it's normal for shifts to start at 4AM). Then again, maybe the fact that I'm a part-time worker who is also full-time college student has something to do with the lack of perks . . .
The Travelling Adventurer
Not to mention that, while the number of new jobs created was pretty small, at least it was positive. Or that unemployment fell from 5.6% to 5.5. That's pretty low to be called 'bad.'
I just finished off 8 months of unemployment by landing a new gig at a much better salary than my old job, and in the past month have received an increasing number of calls from recruiters. I'm not saying we've warped back to 1998 (oh, the glory), but it is getting better.
The sky is not, in fact, falling.
I'll tell you what the 'effect' is! It's pissing me off!
I'd want a job with 401k, pension, 2+ weeks vacation time when you start, and bonus...or are those now completely dead in the US except for executives?
I'm looking for a job right now, so...
-HR monkeys that know you can't program in HTML, don't expect you to have a degree or know how to do javascript/html/css/jsp and run a database/app server/do Linux scripting (hire a webdev and a DBA/sysadmin, for crissakes).
-A PHB that know that know what methodology they are using, and is willing to send a poorly written spec document back for fleshing out when it's obvious crap.
-Brownies? Pop? That's cool, but how about some water and healthy snacks while you're at it?
-Vacation time: ok, staying with an employer more than a year is a stretch for me, but if it did happen, how about 4-6 weeks vacation like they have in the civilized world? I'd rather that than an extra 10% salary.
-Oh, and the gimmicks... enough already! If I'm frustrated, I don't need to take it out on your office plush toy. We may be geeks, weird, have allergies to idiotic small talk, but we're not in kindergarden anymore.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
A company that offers free meals is one that says to me "here, we want to make it easy for you to stay here at the office as much as possible. Look, you don't even have to leave to eat!"
To me, that says they want to try to suck up as much of my time without paying for it as possible.
Ummm, no. I'll pay for my own meals, and eat them on my own time, thankyouverymuch.
"Are we about to enter another era where employers are willing to make work fun again, in order to attract and keep talent?"
If you aren't seeing perks, you're working in the wrong industry, because they've never really gone away. Far be it for me to mention a job outside the IT industry, but my job at a major airline offers plenty of perks, the biggest of which being free travel. As much as I lament it sometimes, it's no more or less stable than the tech industry, which by and large isn't.
It's all a matter of where you've worked these last few years.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I'm an intern at the MIT media lab - total flex-time, free espresso, full access to BorgLab hardware and supplies for personal projects (within the bounds of reason) Also, i have parents who work at other universities in the Boston area (BU in my mum's case), so my tuition for the next four years is covered. college will cost $44,000 for 4 yrs (room, board, books) rather than $160,000-170,000. Good perk, natch?
"Seriously. I get porn delivered to my cube.
It's just all over the place here."
The porn, or your sperm?
He punched me in the back of the head and told me to get back to work.
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
....And yet, monster.com and hotjobs.com are bursting with companies wanting to hire people.
Weird, eh?
stop sulking and open your eyes, the market is desperate...even YOU might be able to get a job.
Last spring I graduated from college, with a liberal arts degree, and within 3 months had an entry level IT job paying 30% more per year than it cost me to attend that insitution. It was tough work, but 9 months later I was approached with two job offers in the span of two weeks that far exceeded what I was making. Now, I'm now making 25% more than I was at my previous job (base, and now I get paid for overtime if I choose to work it). My work week has been shortened by 10 hours, and my benefits have drastically improved.
My new job has catered lunches and free vending machines on each floor, flex-time, options to tele-commute, gym facilities, and tons more vacation time.
Stop the self-perpetuating downward spiral and go get a job.
Wow! Someone said that there are fewer employed, so you go and look at a site where people are looking for employees to prove that there are fewer employed! Things don't work like that, dumbass.
all the unpaid overtime I want.
Christ! I wish there were a decent candidate to vote for this Fall! Bush is a ditwad in love with large corporations who screwed the pooch on the Iraq war and Kerry is a tax-and-spend liberal who can't make up his mind. Both are liars; either one as president will ruin the U.S.
A competent manager!
I'd give up all claims to free food (dearly though I love it) for a manager who is as good at his/her job as I am at mine.
I can promise you that benefits are NOT coming back at wireless fon company name deleted. I've had more of my benefits taken from me the past year then I even knew that I had. And the best part? We can only use 400 minutes a month on our wireless phones or its out of pocket. Nevermind this is a wirless company!
Microsoft needs 7000 resumes.
, 000+resumes/2100-7343_3-5281874.html/
http://marketwatch-cnet.com.com/Microsoft+needs+7
Of course you can bet that they are mostly looking for very hard-working, youngish, low paid, highly-qualified people, so in the end they won't actually hire that many, same as every year...
30 days paid vacation + 15ish holidays Free Travel Free College up to Masters Free Medical & very low Co-Pay Dental Free Housing Tax Free Food Alotment Sounds Good right? URL:http://www.airforce.com/ I've been in 10 years now and love the "perks"
Laid off in March 2001 after "the greatest peacetime economic expansion in history" (AKA dot com + telecom bubble) ended. Worked 5 months at half my old salary since then. Good thing I didn't put all my retirement in Worldcom stock like Bernie told me to. I only wish I had saved more. If I had lived then like I live now and saved the difference, I could retire.
Anonymous Phil
If you believe what you see on those web sites, then I have a bridge to sell you.
But you know what? I'm not going to particularly care about free beer (though I do like beer), or a foosball table, or free dinner. The kind of "perk" I want is not having to have my dinner there. Good maternity (and paternity) leave. Flexible hours. Maybe day care. I want to work at the kind of place where it's OK for me to bring well-behaved kids into the office if I need to. Where it's OK for me to be part-time for a year. I don't want my career to suffer unduly if I think my family is important. I don't want to work long hours until I burn out.
And as I'm writing this, I wonder what the hell is wrong that I regard this sort of basic sanity and moderation as a "perk". The perks of the dot-com boom were great fun for self-absorbed twenty-somethings... which is what I am now, but I won't be forever.
blah blah blah
You obviously haven't ever applied for any of those jobs. You'd get a better response forwarding your resumes to /dev/null.
I am a recent MBA grad from one of the better schools, I was at a interview today with a mid sized firm. The interviewer asked me what my salary expectations were, I replied that I could command 125k to start with two weeks vacation.
The interviewer sat back in his chair, put his palms together and brought his hands up to his face and looked at me pensively. He said that the company was looking to make an offer of 200k per year, 6 weeks paid vacation, matching 401k, full dental and provide me with a company car.
I just about fell off my chair, I said "your kidding me, right?" He laughed, got up and made a motion to the door, "Yeah, but you started it"
Since so many people are going to mention the unemployment number, you should look at what that number actually means.
This site spells it out in detail. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
I would like to point out that the government does not simply make use of those people applying for unemployment insurance to arrive at the unemployment figures. This is a survey.
Is it "free as in beer" or "free as in speech"? :)
Go hug some trees.
Know how to read Farsi or C? Between the ages of 18 and 34? Who needs unemployment when you can be gainfully employed in the US Military! That's right boys and girls. Even those who deny the possibility of a draft after this election year are not ruling out the possibility of "those who could fill specialized positions in certain fields (e.g., health care, linguistics, computer technology) being conscripted."
Employees would like or dislike this perk based on their preferences. However, from the company's point of view, I don't think it's a good perk.
I don't know. What if you are a construction company? A good, cold beer at the end of a hard day can be very, very nice.
I do agree with your implied point, though, that the fringe benefit should be appropriate to the kind of employee you want to attract.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
But seriously, I did take this job for "perks" of a sort, eagerly quitting a job that paid a couple thousand a year more. The perks include: a boss who treats me with respect, a department attitude that focuses on what we can do for people rather than what we won't do for them, the opportunity to do a variety of things from one day to the next, and yes: the assurance of always getting to go home while it's still light out (even in December) and the chance to play with (and make useful things out of) "obsolete" old-world Macs. These are the kind of perks that don't cost my employer anything (on their balance sheet), but which make a huge difference to me.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
intywinty *hick* maaineee(intagar noOfArgyWargggies, Char $#@% argyWargies) [{
printFFFFFFFFFF("Hello there buddy, I loveee you *hick* *snore*\n");
}))) hehe
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Pure FUD, Mr. AC.
You use those websites to do a mass search of jobs, and then check the real companies to see what they have posted.
Try it. It works.
It's *really* poor taste for major airline employees to brag about all their great perks in front of the people whose taxes are paying to bail out the airline industry's multi-billion dollar debt.
0 1 - just my two bits
Right on - I work for a multinational as well and my even after my group was 'downsized' by about 70% to India while the work load went up by 100%, they are now getting us 'help' from India. Three Indian programmers; who will then be rotated into 'other' groups but they won't hire one local person. The joy of work is gone - most people now work to keep their jobs rather than work to do anything meaningful.
Economy improving? Ask those who are in the unemployment line.
Oh yeah, perks are coming back into fashion alright! Look at the stunning package I get:
Free ADSL!(I work at an ISP)
Computer upgrades every 5 years! (for my workstation, not at home)
Air conditioning! (We just replaced the old clunker at work)
And, um, an occasional day where the tech support calls aren't so frequent and I can actually get real work done! W00t!
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Job perks will come back when I say they're coming back, dammit!
(*Note: I'm self employeed. I don't care if job perks are coming 'by in style' or not.)
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
I don't know about you guys, but I could care less about about company "perks." All I care about is that after my 8 hours + 1 for lunch are over, I'm out the door. The current IT shop that I work for is like that since we are a satellite office a thousand miles away from the main corporate office.
Besides, what's the point of a gym membership "perk" if you are too tired to go after a 10+ hour day coding, +2 hours commuting?
We've seen 3 months in the last 42 where we had 6 figure gains. But the breakdown of those jobs showed most didn't pay near as much as the jobs lost.
Talking about perks seems like wishful thinking.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
I feel for you.
Its terrible to see anyone be this humiliated and have your family suffer all because some asshole CEO wants a bonus to outsource your job. Its wrong!
Since slashdot gets 40k hits a day why dont you mention where your from and your qualifications and hopefully someone reading this could help or know someone who is hiring? Its worth a thought.
If I were a manager or CIO I would certainly would not mind looking at your resume and would feel glad to help someone else who is looking a hand out.
I am young and got kicked out of the white colar workforce early on and luckily did not have a family. I am at home at 27 going to school and finding any job. I am hoping I never get in a situation like this again and it sucks for anyone who has to go through it.
http://saveie6.com/
What they failed to mention in the articles, is, at least when I worked there, the developers actually foot the bill for the beer on Friday afternoons. Typically, during the week some developer was responsible for a large snafu that broke the software build or something else very heinous. It was then their responsibility to go out and fetch/pay for the beer. Of course, it was still a nice perk. ;)
No.
If you go to the Analytical Graphics Inc. web site "careers" web page and search under "Information Technology" you get...
Sorry, there are currently no job positions available in Information Technology. Please check back later.
As many have noted in previous posts, there is still not that much hiring going on.
On the positive side, it speaks well of the company that they offer the perks, even when there are not openings and they would probably not have a hard time hiring new people.
Yes, stronger.
Yes, please--do check.
For starters, check with the U.S. Dept. of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics--which is the agency that tabulates and reports on job gains and losses. Any statistical discussion of employment and employment trends in the U.S. will inevitably use BLS data. And the data, as you've heard in the press, is that unemployment has been declining, and net employment is up, at least since the 4th quarter of 2003. (It may be longer, but I didn't look beyond the "at-a-glance" index on the BLS page I linked to above.)
Employment overall is one thing--but how about geek employment?
I cannot comment about geek employment nationwide--but I can comment about geek employment in the New York-Philadelphia metropolitan area. In short, we're past the tipping point, where recruiters are calling up to offer jobs, instead of not bothering to return your calls for positions. That inevitably has the effect of driving up wages--either direct wages (pay to you) or indirect wages (benefits, free lunch, etc.).
How much of that is smoke?
A lot of people are skeptical about headhunters, and whether they really have the jobs they claim to have. I can't say. What I can say, though, is that my employer is actively recruiting, and we will be making a major effort at on-campus recruiting in the fall.
They probably do that because they expect that you're gonna be there at those hours!
that air conditioning and a lunch break are not considered perks
Is it 5:30 yet?
is anyone else worried that a company that writes
non-game products like 'battlespace management'
is written by people with access to a free hangover?
having a paycheck not shorted by payroll.
So, I seriously doubt that we are going to get anything at all like the late 90s going on for technical workers.
Stop It! You're scaring DeVry.
every single thing on that list is an excuse to leave work
pretty soon you'll get teh "benefit" of a cot in your office and a free towel for the showers on your floor cause the furthest you'll have to go is to the basement to see your kids in the FREE childcare facility
so who is really benefitting? i bet some prick with a graph showing hours at work vs extra dollars whored off their salaried backs sold this to management.
Lets say you *DO* relocate to somewhere in BFE for that "good job"....
And then the company goes belly-up (like my last few tech jobs), or the company does another round of layoffs, or it's just not the job for you.
Unless you had a seriously kickass savings (which wasn't even usually true BEFORE we all started dipping into them to tide us through these doldrums), you're now *TRAPPED*, out in the middle of godforsaken nowhere, in a one-company town, with little chance of escape, and few or no options.
Whereas by staying in San Francisco; by not running away in failure, by riding the recession out here; yeah, I'm stretching it on a low-paying "survival job". But once things get back to normal, I'll be right back in the middle of things, and I'll have the freedom to take a chance on a job that might not work out. And if I DO pick another sub-par company, a new job will be waiting for me a five-minute walk down the block.
AND, aside from some of the fancier clubs and restaurants I don't frequent on my current budget, I get to keep most of the rest of the advantages of living in The City; and that's something that's hard to put a price on, but very VERY valuable.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
Mmm, nothing better than that!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I do hardware design / low level and embedded programming. There's been pretty steady demand for the past few years; I saw the end coming when I graduated from EE for software engineering. Guys who couldn't tell me what a stack was were doing "IT".. sure, opens the field up - but dilutes the market. I did communications / network programming when I graduated, then got myself into low level embedded design as fast as I could. The lower level the better. Nobody ever wanted to do driver level or lower work .. so I figured I'd try.
:)
:)
Something those coming up should look at. It's a lot more frustrating than software design - try writing code when the only reliable debugger you have is printf, and even then not really, because you're writing it on beta development software for a nonstandard OS on unfinished prototype hardware.
It's very rewarding when you see your product being produced, and it's got blinkenlights you designed, and such.
To anyone finding work - the sad reality that I have accepted is that the odds of being able to settle in one area prior to retirement are very slim. I honestly don't know how I'd have kids - work is steady, but everything seems so unpredictable.
..don't panic
And the funny scans from all the other cubes if you walk out before 7pm. Screw that.
That's all I really want. I'm 3x to 4x more productive, I rarely have to work over 40 hours, I never get sick from co-workers coming to work when they SHOULD BE HOME ON SICK LEAVE.......
I'll come to work 2 times per year...?
M0571y H@rml355.
I don't know. What if you are a construction company? A good, cold beer at the end of a hard day can be very, very nice.
Hell Yeah.
As a construction Engineer, I can definitely say that the only thing we do more intensely than work is drink.
No seriously- my first day on the job: Boss comes up to me at about 3:00, gives me a twenty, and says, "Beer. 4:30. Conference Room. There better be at least a six pack of Heineken." He then turns around a walks off.
I think I need a new sig here.
How about a job offer instead of the eternal contract position? (like 18 months worth...) That would be very nice...
Who moved my sig?
Sounds like the Army. Enlist today! See exotic lands, like Iraq and Afghanistan. Free meals and all the beer you can carry.
I have only limited sympathy for people who don't save any money and the expect everyone to break out the violins when it bites them in the ass. It isn't the the fault of the government, Bush, or anyone else that you are fiscally irresponsible. I'm not exactly the definition of fiscally responsible, but I managed to scrape by for two years while unemployed and another year and a half working at a startup where I make so little I might as well be unemployed.
So quit yer whinin'. I don't want to hear it. You pissed all your money away on frivolous shit for years on end (and yes, without knowing anything about you I'll bet you spent at least half your money on frivolous shit -- I used to be the same way) and now its time to pay the piper. What a pathetic lot.
Maybe it's not really "free" as in beer, but "free" as in speech. So they have to pay for the beer, but it comes with its recipe. And they can use that to make their own beer, as long as they include the recipe with any modifications they've made.
Okay, WE do. But I've come to the conclusion that "middle America", the sort of people that support GWB, don't give a s#!t if the geeks they made fun of in high-school are seeing hard times. Hell, they've put up with declining job opportunities for years. Their average salaries are around $35K, so they're not going to feel sorry for a bunch of nerds who were making $100K, and who might now have to flip burgers.
Every company I looked at thus far that offers free food, showers, snacks, etc almost always routinely requires employees to work mandatory overtime for one reason for another. What at first looks like a cool perk is actually an attempt to remove the excuse for you to ever go home.
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. -Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
I have been working for 4 years witha decent salary and could live for a year with my cash savings.
I just don't understand what the grand parent poster has done with all those years of loyality.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The guy is looking frantically for a job, he has not found it.
For him the tax cuts have been "pie in the sky" as the Brits say.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I had a summer job as a dishwasher in my student days, but it did offer 2 free beers a day.
Other companies would pay me the same without the perks.
Perks are a no brainer, you get things for free or cheaper than if you had to provide them yourslef (private health insurance comes to mind, I only have to pay the respective tax, far cheaper than getting insurance myself).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"How about, instead of all the free donuts and beer, you just give me a raise?"
With a raise I can choose to buy my own donuts and beer and consume them at a time of my choice, rather then my employer's.
What kind of perks would you have to have to switch to a job that pay the same? ...an offer.
For a change, a little stability would be nice. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to know that you would probably have a job next year, so you could do some real mundane things like plan for that "Vacation" you've been putting off for years - or put some serious bucks into your 401K?
I'm tired of chasing cheese. Seems like all the cheese I've been finding lately is less tastey than what I once had - and I think this applys to most. When does the rat-race end, and living begin?
Free lunch and gyms in the building seem very Japanese style to me. Its a way of reducing overall stress for the employees. By not having to worry about where you are going for lunch (and by not having to pay for it) you reduce the daily stress. Also its a small, relatively, cheap gift to employees that breeds goodwill. It also increases the amount of time worked and reduces the issue of people taking too long for lunch. My last job was awful and the pay sucked but the occasional free lunch day made it bearable long enough to make a little money and get out.
It seems the majority of people posting here get no perks at all... Perhaps a move to Australia may be a good idea for all you yanks...
At the company I work for (the regional head office of a very large multinational), I get:
- Car - okay for personal use as well as work
- Cellphone - okay for personal use as well as work
- Misc computer equipment for personal and work use (such as a USB key and PDA)
- Tickets to various theatre performances
- High quality printing and copying (it's a photocopier company (and no, not Xerox!))
- National and International flights and hotel stays (work related, but lots of free time to do my own thing)
- Lunch (during training courses (run by me) only)
- Coffee
- CocaCola/Pepsi/Mountain Dew
- Orange Juice
- Water
- Beer at the end of the day
- Plus a fairly reasonable salary with 4 weeks annual leave
All for my 40 to 50 hours a week in a support/testing/documentation type role (although my business card says "Manager" - mostly as I wouldn't get a car otherwise)
Well I currently have: a company car (they pay the insurance and maintenance), a guaranteed 10% of salary additional bonus for each full year I stay, full health care for me and the wife, 24 days holiday. Oh and pension scheme that the employer contributes 5% of my salary to.
I think that's pretty much standard in the UK- the only thing that's changed for me after 3 months on the dole about 2 years ago was I lost my long service leave entitlement (it used to be 27 days).
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
...and kept it through all this, I just want some fucking insurance. AFLAC don't cut it.
'nough said.
I know of a place local to me where the company offers 50% 401k matching (up to 3% company contribution), there is a pension-plan that is contributed to at about that same rate, (contingent on the company making a profit, and it hasn't failed to make a profit for over 20 years), there is a monthly bonus consisting of 5% of the company's after-payroll revenues distributed among the employees, and at the end of the first year, you'll have acrued 2 weeks of vacation time, usable in hourly increments, with the amount of vacation that you acrue going up each year. Also, there is a flex-time program that allow employees to take time off on one day and make it up on other days.The company health and dental plans are, I believe, ~50% funded.
Sound good?
Well, it's a maufacturing job, and I'm pretty sure that they are only hiring for production positions. Starting wage is $7/hr.
Still sound good? Didn't think so.
Benefits aren't everything.
What is the difference between a small revolutionary change and a large evolutionary change?
Um, no.
Unemployment insurance is not a "benefit" that an employee may or may not get. It is an entitlement, funded by payroll contributions paid by the employer (entirely in most states, but split with the employee in others). Part-time jobs typically are not covered for unemployment--but any full-time job is. And full-time employment in the U.S. has most certainly not been "shrinking dramatically over the past 20 years." (To the contrary, full-time employment has increased in that time period.)
Your statement about how the BLS counts people receiving unemployment benefits is half-right. Only people receiving unemployment are counted as unemployed--where you're mistaken is in thinking that once a person's unemployment has run out, the BLS regards that person as employed. That's not how it works.
The BLS determines employment based on statistical extrapolation of employment data polled monthly from a broad cross-section of businesses across the country. Years ago, when I was the business manager of a small publishing house, I got a monthly survey form from the BLS, which I would fill out and send in. That's how the BLS can report on growth (or decline) in manufacturing, service, or farm-sector jobs: they're surveying employers in different job sectors across the country (and across the economy).
If you read the BLS documents, you'll find cautions against using unemployment figures derived from state unemployment reports and comparing them with employment data derived from employer reports. The unemployment data are hard numbers--the total of new claims for unemployment insurance, for instance. The employment data are statistical projections from voluntary surveys. (If you forget to send the form in they nag you--but you can always drop out of the survey entirely.) You can't correlate the two--it is a perfect example of "comparing apples to oranges."
Those benefits and the wage is $7 an hour...that's very surprising. I worked a manufacturing job on my summers off from college, no benefits of any kind, 2nd shift payed $6.50 an hour. The vast majority of the workers including me were "temporary" workers, allthough there were some fledgling efforts to start unionization for better working conditions and pay--so the only way those guys could have gotten benefits at all was if they were union, I imagine.
But what kind of perks? You can separate several distinct types:
As an employee, things like flexitime and "pillow days" are great for me. Options are nice as-well-as but not instead-of your regular package -- I'd be very unlikely to accept a below-par salary/bonus package in exchange for options. I have no interest in the third kind of perk, and would much rather have the money to spend on my first home, since houses are ludicrously expensive around here.
I'm not sure this discussion makes much sense until you've identified what sort of thing you're going to call a "perk".
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Free lunch. To all those naysayers, there is such a thing as a free lunch.
In the US, we have state-sponsored schools, which are mostly funded through taxes and endowments. To give an example, to go full time at my Alma Mater costs $2933.12 per semester. It cost less when I went there, but whatever. Say you spent your summers temping at $12/hr. That's $8000 (you pay no income taxes with income that low, but even if you somehow had to, your HOPE credit would more than counteract it, so you are really gonna pay no income taxes). If you can live at home and mooch off the parents, relax, you're done. If not, don't fret.
Take a job in the computer lab at $7.50/hr for 10 hours/wk. That's about $300/mo to sit there and do your homework. Live in a coop, eat ramen, rice, and beans. In four years, relax. You just worked your way through school with no loans and no mooching off the parents.
Surprise, my friend! You can work your way through school in the US no matter how dirt-poor you are and graduate debt-free! Hopefully now you'll quit spreading misinformation about US Universities being restricted to the wealthy and athlectically gifted.
Incidentally, how does access to education work in Switzerland? Is it like in Germany where if you can't get into Gymnasium, you're basically fucked and get to go to the Realschule and learn to be a plumber? The US education system is looking way better from where I'm sitting, I gotta tell ya.
P.S. I know you're gonna say, "but what about healthcare when you're living on that shoestring?" Nice try, but health care is free through the Univ.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Tried that- they didn't want me- something about the fact that during the last gulf war I made the public suggestion that being a beserker was the best way to survive any military firefight.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Learn to look for work. What worked for you 23 years ago will not work now. Learn to interview. Quit reading slashdot and read everything on this site about how to fix your resume, write a cover letter that will increase your chances of getting an interview, conduct yourself during an interview, and basically just get yourself back on your feet!
Also, fricking network. Somebody you know knows somebody who needs you.
Looking for work at your age sucks balls, but it can be done. Practice interviewing with your wife/friends/whomever will indulge you. The resume should get you the interview (leave the dates off, if you must), the cover letter should ask for an interview, but the interview itself... that's when you sell yourself, and you must perfect that sales pitch.
Above all, good luck! You can do this. (no more slashdot!!)
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
I've been having the same problem. But at least I knew going into the deal what a jackass my boss was.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Current economic theory (current as of, say, a few hundred years ago or so) holds that there is a Labor Market which is subject to the laws of Supply and Demand. It is similar in nature to the Product Market. Your mistake is to only consider a factor of Demand while ignoring Supply.
Why else would a teacher make less than a garbage collector when a teacher, with specialized training, is providing the education for the future generations and a garbage collector mearly transports plastic bags across town, a function you could easily do yourself? Because there is a short Supply of people willing to spend their days smelling rotten garbage.
If you, retrostamm, provided a lot of value for my business, I would fire your ass in a heartbeat if Bob down the street would be willing to provide that same value for less money. I'd me an idiot not to.Aha! A correct statement! But what is your point? You better believe it makes your paycheck smaller, but to what degree, is the important question. Your employer is getting a group rate at that gym, so if your gym membership would cost $100 retail, your employer does NOT have to deduct $100 from your paycheck. Benefits like your employer-provided health insurance, etc, are being paid for with pretax dollars. If you had to buy it yourself, it would be with post-tax dollars (to the extent that your health care expenses are less than 2% of your AGI blahdy blah blah). So your employer is providing you a monetary benefit without it costing them a dime, so they don't have to lower your salary to fix your "total compensation". Which makes your conclusion:Completely and utterly wrong. Your total compensation is set by the laws of Supply and Demand, and your benefits package truly is a benefit to you.Now get back to work and quit trying to do mine.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
That's the best summary of how be in-demand I've ever read. Some of it is obvious, but it's written so cogently that it's one for the notebook - regardless of your profession.
Jesus, 2+ weeks.
In the UK even the worst jobs offer at least 24 days + 7 public holidays. In my current job I have 35 days + 7 days public holidays.
Geez, to live in a free market economy....
I don't request free beer or gym, that's just bullshit. I didn't get a raise in 3,5 years.
I'm forced to work with granma's technology because nobody cares about improving our products' quality, our productivity or training people.
The one only affects me, but the second is really nasty on the future of my department, but apparently nobody gives a fuck about anything beyond the next week.
As soon as the market increases, hastalavista, baby. And the only ones they will have there are the scrap nobody wants anyway. The same as saying, they'll go down the can.