"There are only so many jobs writing the "core" code (the OS, the drivers, the productivity software), which closes out most of us."
No there are an infinite number of possible softwares that can be written. Yes there are only a certain number of coders working on the Windows Kernel. But as far as applications go this is not the case. Think of how many apps are yet to be invented.
"In addition to this meritocracy, a marketplace evolves where people who have the skills (because they already paid an entry fee--giving their time--to join the marketplace) can sell their skills in a "secondary" market for support, customizations, etc. Again, something we can participate in that we couldn't have otherwise because there were still only those limited numbers of those jobs to go around."
I don't really want one of those jobs. Most programmers don't. Open source will eventually kill the low end of the software market. This is good. It will force true engineering of robust applications that will not be duplicated by people with lesser experience. This is also good. People will cut there teeth on open source programming, and then move on to future jobs were engineering is the guiding principle...not hacking (with is more fun in my opinion).
Of course that is just my opinion. The battle between information being free and people making money is not knew to the slashdot generations. It has exsisted from the beggining and it will continue to exsist.
Which is precisly why some don't want to give heir source code away for free. Why should they do all the work designing and implemnting so others can proft?
At 16 you will most likely have to switch to something different because the world of IT is changing to qickly for you to get a job as it currently stands. You need a well rounded education...now I do think college should be focues.
Ok Now I think I am on the same page. Sure that seems reasonable...for most softwares. I doubt however that you would convince Nvidia to realse the API for their drivers...well I guess a lot of that API is just the openGL API any way.
As long as you don't require everyone to release the source...just the API. This would actually be good for those companies who had people using their API's.
"People who write apps that call APIs in open source programs get the source and APIs to the OSS they're using. "
Yeah...and if you link to these API's you have to open your code as well. I still don't understand. Perhaps you are suggesting the if the user does somehting like:
system("./run_gpl_program_here");
then that persons program should be open sourced as well? I don't think this will fly. In fact if a major project like Linux took this route then it would mean that every application that runs on linux would have to be open source. While there are quite a few people who would like to see this, there are tons more of us who think it is ok for open and closed source to peacfully co-exsist. I think what you are suggesting would make linux non-viable for business users.
"but surely the search for more money does not trump the free exchange of ideas."
Ah but what you miss is that without the monetary incentive there will not be as many new ideas to exchange. People want to be paid. People want to have more than their neighbors. People as a whole struggle to be richer and more powerful than others around them. Sad, yes. True, yes. Socialism will never ever work with humans. I personaly don't want to be equal to the status quo. I want to try harder than others and do more in life. But what is the incentive if everything is free? I guess you could argue that it is the recognition, but the current system often gives recognition as well as money.
If you kill the current entertainment industry then you will kill entertainment as we know it....probably not a bad thing in the long run, but in the short run we will have no new TV programming and no new moveis...The bonus is that we also have no more brittany spears or boy band crap.
Actaully I don't think this would hold up either. You can't say that just because something makes use of an application that the program using it must be open source. People who write open source apps already have open API's so I guess I don't understand what it is you really want out of this.
You make a good point. I however wasn't assuming that a dollar amount makes you evil. I was simply stating that I believe it is hard (perhaps impossible) to make a billion dollars by being totally honest. Give some thought to how much a billion really is. There are small (very small) countries that don't have a billion dollars.
But you are right...I mean who determines what an obscene amount is? To me it is a billion dollars...to the homeless guy on the corner it is probably $30,000.
Honest living...billionaire...hones living...biolionaire....hum...something seems funny to me.
As an aside not I am a capitalist and I support the work that google is doing...but lets get real on the honest living....no one making a billion dollars while people are starving is making an honest living. If you believe otherwise you should have a long hard look at yourself tommorrow in the Mirror.
Agree this is nuts. It is not fair to the Kansas students who will only be taught one WRONG side! As an aside it is totally illegal and they are probably just blowing smoke.
You are excactly right. You can choose to not pay for it. But if the majority of the people do end up paying forit then that will be an example of the free markets at work and you my friend will probably just end up bitter about it because we both know you won't be using that Althlon in 15 years, much less 25, 35, 50 , etc..
So eiter: a) Do something about it like writing your own open source app o replace it.
b) Shut up.
Slashdot: Home of little kids who think the entire worl d owes them something. Grow up people. These companies have the right to charge in what ever manner they see fit and you have zero say about it. You can rant and rave until you die. The only power you have is that you can choose not to but it. Thank GOD most of the citizens in the world aren't as shallow minded as you people.
Oh...F the moderators.
This is the 10th time that I oficially give up slashdot.
I switched as a means of managing my anger. I was literally punching the front of my new Compaq computer in. I had windows 98 (first edition) and it literally locked up every night. I could not write a paper for school on it with out having to save the document every couple of minutes. It took my quite a while to qet linux up and working with X. I had an onboard video card at the time that was not supported at all. The entire installation was done from floppy disks which I spent most of the night downloading.
Linux has truely grown into a great desktop OS from it's humble begginings. I do realize that most of the Windows stability issues have been fixed. Howeer I have no reason to switch back. Linux does everything I want it to.
Which was basically my point. We won't have to continue increasing clock speed to continue gaining improved performance. If we could get the system bus to match the speed of the processor we (I am a scientific programmer) would notice huge performance gains.
This is simply not true. Many of us started programming on our own..tinkerng. Only later did we larn things like algorithms and data structures. You know what we probably learn those things much better than someone such as your self because we can immedatly draw on our previous experience and say.."oh yeah I totally see why that would be faster, or use less memory, or etc."
The best way to learn how to code is to find a problem that needs to be solved and go about solving it. while you are doing this make sure you are spending time reading about parts of the language that you don't use and as you grow as a coder start to read books on algorithm and data sructures.
Not everyone in the world has to be spoon fed information. I for one do not learn very well in a class room setting. I am a hacker (explorer), and many others are like me.
Actually clock speeds really haven't done much in the last 2-3 years.
I think the increase in clock speed game is pretty much up. From here on out we will see multicores and other such innovative technology...but probably we won't see 10Ghz chips anytime soon...which if clockspeed was doubling every 18 months like it used to we would see it in about 3-3.5 years.
Spoken by someone who most likley did not attend college. How can you say that anything past a 2 year degree is overkill? Or a 4 year for that matter? Did it ever cross your mind that some things take much longer to learn and master? I guess you must believe that a bunch of people with a 2 year college degree could put a man on the moon? Seriously get a grip and perhaps a clue will find you.
Oh and yes most people do believe tha a college degree will grant the the ability to make more money...that is why most people go. yeah people will say that that isn't the reason you should go to collge...bullshit. Sure study what you love but you should be paid better than the average joe who refused to ever master anything.
It is one thing to maintain a nation of people who have never had rights...it is quite another thing to make a police state of a nation build on human rights. I think your scenario of America becoming a police state is about as likely as a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. With that said I do understand the concerns of other nations. The problem is that I don't see an easy solution. Perhaps if they do go ahead a fracture the internet then a few years down the road we Americans will see the benefit of belonging to a global internet and we will gradually change. At the same time I don't see how it is right to ask us to just give up control. Show us that you can control it by building your own first.
And besides that for the love of GOD slashdot could we do without any more dups. Lets wait until there is some real news developing on this subject. I thought we were geeks here? Isn't there some new mathematical, chemical, physical, etc changing the world much more than a bunch of political blow jobs (all nations are run by political blow jobs) bickering about the internet of which they have no idea how it works?
Slashdot Mirror
"Then you will understand the only real software business model: you need a change, you pay me to make the change."
Not trying to flame you, but that is just a plain stupid thing to say.
Microsoft, Apple, fuck every damned large software company out there proves you wrong.
I could no disagree with your post more.
"There are only so many jobs writing the "core" code (the OS, the drivers, the productivity software), which closes out most of us."
No there are an infinite number of possible softwares that can be written. Yes there are only a certain number of coders working on the Windows Kernel. But as far as applications go this is not the case. Think of how many apps are yet to be invented.
"In addition to this meritocracy, a marketplace evolves where people who have the skills (because they already paid an entry fee--giving their time--to join the marketplace) can sell their skills in a "secondary" market for support, customizations, etc. Again, something we can participate in that we couldn't have otherwise because there were still only those limited numbers of those jobs to go around."
I don't really want one of those jobs. Most programmers don't. Open source will eventually kill the low end of the software market. This is good. It will force true engineering of robust applications that will not be duplicated by people with lesser experience. This is also good. People will cut there teeth on open source programming, and then move on to future jobs were engineering is the guiding principle...not hacking (with is more fun in my opinion).
Of course that is just my opinion. The battle between information being free and people making money is not knew to the slashdot generations. It has exsisted from the beggining and it will continue to exsist.
Which is precisly why some don't want to give heir source code away for free. Why should they do all the work designing and implemnting so others can proft?
At 16 you will most likely have to switch to something different because the world of IT is changing to qickly for you to get a job as it currently stands. You need a well rounded education...now I do think college should be focues.
Ok Now I think I am on the same page. Sure that seems reasonable...for most softwares. I doubt however that you would convince Nvidia to realse the API for their drivers...well I guess a lot of that API is just the openGL API any way.
As long as you don't require everyone to release the source...just the API. This would actually be good for those companies who had people using their API's.
"People who write apps that call APIs in open source programs get the source and APIs to the OSS they're using. "
Yeah...and if you link to these API's you have to open your code as well. I still don't understand. Perhaps you are suggesting the if the user does somehting like:
system("./run_gpl_program_here");
then that persons program should be open sourced as well? I don't think this will fly. In fact if a major project like Linux took this route then it would mean that every application that runs on linux would have to be open source. While there are quite a few people who would like to see this, there are tons more of us who think it is ok for open and closed source to peacfully co-exsist. I think what you are suggesting would make linux non-viable for business users.
"but surely the search for more money does not trump the free exchange of ideas."
Ah but what you miss is that without the monetary incentive there will not be as many new ideas to exchange. People want to be paid. People want to have more than their neighbors. People as a whole struggle to be richer and more powerful than others around them. Sad, yes. True, yes. Socialism will never ever work with humans. I personaly don't want to be equal to the status quo. I want to try harder than others and do more in life. But what is the incentive if everything is free? I guess you could argue that it is the recognition, but the current system often gives recognition as well as money.
If you kill the current entertainment industry then you will kill entertainment as we know it....probably not a bad thing in the long run, but in the short run we will have no new TV programming and no new moveis...The bonus is that we also have no more brittany spears or boy band crap.
Just my worthless before coffee 2 cents.
Actaully I don't think this would hold up either. You can't say that just because something makes use of an application that the program using it must be open source. People who write open source apps already have open API's so I guess I don't understand what it is you really want out of this.
"We only have three employees managing all the servers and all helpdesk calls for 350 people."
Lucky F**&'ers. We have 3 for 900 or so.
You make a good point. I however wasn't assuming that a dollar amount makes you evil. I was simply stating that I believe it is hard (perhaps impossible) to make a billion dollars by being totally honest. Give some thought to how much a billion really is. There are small (very small) countries that don't have a billion dollars.
But you are right...I mean who determines what an obscene amount is? To me it is a billion dollars...to the homeless guy on the corner it is probably $30,000.
"3. Windows is total crap in every way."
And this would be the zeolotry (??) that others spoke of.
Honest living...billionaire...hones living...biolionaire....hum...something seems funny to me.
As an aside not I am a capitalist and I support the work that google is doing...but lets get real on the honest living....no one making a billion dollars while people are starving is making an honest living. If you believe otherwise you should have a long hard look at yourself tommorrow in the Mirror.
Cheers
LOL. I would have modded you funny.
Agree this is nuts. It is not fair to the Kansas students who will only be taught one WRONG side! As an aside it is totally illegal and they are probably just blowing smoke.
Agreed. However that was not what I was ranting about. DMCA or not a company has the right to choose how it will sell/license it's product.
You are excactly right. You can choose to not pay for it. But if the majority of the people do end up paying forit then that will be an example of the free markets at work and you my friend will probably just end up bitter about it because we both know you won't be using that Althlon in 15 years, much less 25, 35, 50 , etc..
So eiter:
a) Do something about it like writing your own open source app o replace it.
b) Shut up.
Slashdot: Home of little kids who think the entire worl d owes them something. Grow up people. These companies have the right to charge in what ever manner they see fit and you have zero say about it. You can rant and rave until you die. The only power you have is that you can choose not to but it. Thank GOD most of the citizens in the world aren't as shallow minded as you people.
Oh...F the moderators.
This is the 10th time that I oficially give up slashdot.
I switched as a means of managing my anger. I was literally punching the front of my new Compaq computer in. I had windows 98 (first edition) and it literally locked up every night. I could not write a paper for school on it with out having to save the document every couple of minutes. It took my quite a while to qet linux up and working with X. I had an onboard video card at the time that was not supported at all. The entire installation was done from floppy disks which I spent most of the night downloading.
Linux has truely grown into a great desktop OS from it's humble begginings. I do realize that most of the Windows stability issues have been fixed. Howeer I have no reason to switch back. Linux does everything I want it to.
Actaully would need to install distcc and probably do somthing like:
make -j 65536 CXX=distcc
Ok....I figured it out.....you.....are a...quack.
Ok that was totally outta line. just put down the tin foil hat sir.....sir move away from the hat.
Which was basically my point. We won't have to continue increasing clock speed to continue gaining improved performance. If we could get the system bus to match the speed of the processor we (I am a scientific programmer) would notice huge performance gains.
This is simply not true. Many of us started programming on our own..tinkerng. Only later did we larn things like algorithms and data structures. You know what we probably learn those things much better than someone such as your self because we can immedatly draw on our previous experience and say.."oh yeah I totally see why that would be faster, or use less memory, or etc."
The best way to learn how to code is to find a problem that needs to be solved and go about solving it. while you are doing this make sure you are spending time reading about parts of the language that you don't use and as you grow as a coder start to read books on algorithm and data sructures.
Not everyone in the world has to be spoon fed information. I for one do not learn very well in a class room setting. I am a hacker (explorer), and many others are like me.
Actually clock speeds really haven't done much in the last 2-3 years.
I think the increase in clock speed game is pretty much up. From here on out we will see multicores and other such innovative technology...but probably we won't see 10Ghz chips anytime soon...which if clockspeed was doubling every 18 months like it used to we would see it in about 3-3.5 years.
Spoken by someone who most likley did not attend college. How can you say that anything past a 2 year degree is overkill? Or a 4 year for that matter? Did it ever cross your mind that some things take much longer to learn and master? I guess you must believe that a bunch of people with a 2 year college degree could put a man on the moon? Seriously get a grip and perhaps a clue will find you.
Oh and yes most people do believe tha a college degree will grant the the ability to make more money...that is why most people go. yeah people will say that that isn't the reason you should go to collge...bullshit. Sure study what you love but you should be paid better than the average joe who refused to ever master anything.
I don't know if I shouldlaugh or cry...but that was the funniest damned post I have read all day!
It is one thing to maintain a nation of people who have never had rights...it is quite another thing to make a police state of a nation build on human rights. I think your scenario of America becoming a police state is about as likely as a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. With that said I do understand the concerns of other nations. The problem is that I don't see an easy solution. Perhaps if they do go ahead a fracture the internet then a few years down the road we Americans will see the benefit of belonging to a global internet and we will gradually change. At the same time I don't see how it is right to ask us to just give up control. Show us that you can control it by building your own first.
And besides that for the love of GOD slashdot could we do without any more dups. Lets wait until there is some real news developing on this subject. I thought we were geeks here? Isn't there some new mathematical, chemical, physical, etc changing the world much more than a bunch of political blow jobs (all nations are run by political blow jobs) bickering about the internet of which they have no idea how it works?