Because it's far more honest than the various euphamisms and other means we try to avoid the subject of the reality of race in this country. "We're not segregated, this is just a white neighborhood."
"The FACT is, French police allowed many of these areas to become "no law" zones.
I don't care what your political bent is, I don't care that you have a bug up your butt about Bush and the US, the only thing that matters is THEY ALLOWED THESE AREAS TO BECOME NO LAW ZONES.
If that's not pandering to them, then they need to change the definition of pandering."
It's called "abandoning your post," much like the LAPD did in 1992 (with similar results). "Pandering" would have involved setting up a special, independent, immigrant-only police force to patrol these areas.
Is a parent that abandons their child said to be pandering to them?
"So, then immigration isn't a "foreign policy"? That means it must be a domestic policy."
Correct: naturalization policy is a domestic matter. For example, you will note that it is listed in Article I, section 8 of the United States Constitution among other domestic policy powers of Congress.
"I agree, this whole mess is the result of two stuupid kids who didn;t listen, and instead ran from police. The blame lies with them."
My, that's a loaded statement, blaming the victims. Pop quiz: people with guns are violating your rights, what do you do? Just because they were police officers doesn't mean what they were doing was lawful.
"a. they don't randomly check green cards b there is an outrage when they do."
Whether or not something happens or whether or not there is an outraged response when it happens doesn't decide whether or not an action is legal. Those are red herrings.
"you mix up african and north-african (arabic) culture."
They are from the African continent, are they not? Or am I not "American" because I have fair skin and speak neither Spanish nor Portugese? Are people in the United States and Canada "European?"
"Ethnically segregated" need not mean that they are segregated by a deliberate state policy. Circumstance and differing cultures can opt to voluntarily segregate themselves to a degree, by choosing to live near and associate only with similar, like-minded individuals.
I think you're a little to used to the word "segregation" being used to describe state policy in the US before the 1960's, but even today blacks and whites tend to stay with their own even without the state government explicitly telling them to do so. "Segregation" can mean "apartheid," but it can also be a synonym to "partitioning."
"People live wherever they can afford to."
Poor blacks tend to live in the inner cities rather than trailer parks, even though they cost about the same. The opposite can be true for poor whites, but to a lesser degree. There are more decisions involved beyond the cost of housing.
Would you rather an official state policy of diaspora?
Disclaimer: I am making some unverified assumptions here for the sake of argument.
Ranma 1/2 By Rumiko Takahashi, from Japan, raised in a home that spoke Japanese Published in English, reading from left to right, in the United States
Is it manga?
Peach Fuzz By Jared Hodges & Lindsay Cibos, from New York & Florida (respectively), raised in homes that spoke English Published in English, reading from left to right, in the United States
Is it manga?
Sinfest By Tatsuya Ishida, from Pennsylvania, raised in a home that spoke Japanese Published in Engish, reading from left to right, in the United States
According to your rule, if my friend is a human being, I'd say "My friend's house," but if my friend were a pet rock, I'd say "My friend house." The latter sounds like I've made friends with a house, or that I have a special house specifically for friends.
"America" isn't a person, either. Should the US Army change the name of its game/recruiting tool to "America Army?"
First off, "friend" is pretty common, since it's not capitalized, so supposedly it shouldn't have an apostrophe either. I'm assuming by "common noun" your English teacher meant "not a proper noun." Besides, a "friend" need not be a person ("Say 'Hello' to my little friend.")
Secondly, "my car's wheel" denotes the wheel that belongs to the car that you own, demonstrating that you own both the car and the associated wheel. "My car wheel" is a wheel that belongs on a car, but not necessariy the car that you own (if you even have a car).
If manga relied primarily on Japanese cultural references, then it wouldn't sell well outside of Japan to begin with. Us gaijins gobble it up because we find we can relate to the stuff.
"rock and roll? are you stupid? what word would we use besides rock and roll? there's no word for it so of course the word would be spread with the genre."
You'd call it "country music," where it started. It wasn't born in a vacuum, any more than the genre of graphical art we call "manga."
And, as you pointed out, the genre of rock-and-roll did spread. People didn't cry bloody murder when somebody that wasn't black and/or from Appalachia tried to do it, bemoaning how what The Animals were doing couldn't possibly be called "rock-and-roll" because they weren't immersed in the culture that gave birth to it.
"toyota IS called a car because we're in america, which is my point."
No, you're striving for maintaining cultural purity through language and naming conventions. Those things that Toyota manufacturers might be called "automobiles," but as far as American English is concerned, the word "car" was applied first to those four-wheeled things churned out from Detroit and therefore should only apply to products from Detroit.
"this stuff should be called a comic because we're not in japan. i didn't say that car means american,"
You are attempting to maintain a cultural separation between the US and Japan by insisting that graphical art from the US be called "comics" and graphical art from Japan be called "manga," looking only at nationality instead of artistic style.
Saying "comic" must mean American and "manga" must mean Japanese, you are in effect also saying that "car" must mean American. You're the one essentially insisting that what Toyota manufactures must be called "kurumas."
Heck, not even all the graphical art from US artists can be called "comic." I can't remember the last time Prince Valiant made me laugh.
"katana is a specific TYPE of sword, it is not a general word for sword. sword is a very general word."
A katana is a style of sword, and manga is a style of graphical art. "Manga" need not mean "Japanese" any more than "impressionist" means "French."
Now there's a question for the "if it ain't Japanese it can't be manga" folks: given that the author has a name like "Tatsuya Ishida," would you call Sinfest manga?
"what? are you saying that's a lie or what? the wikipedia article is a lie? i don't understand what you are saying is the lie."
No, the lie was "the comics industry in this country has been stunted and is mostly for kids." Before Congress got involved, American comics and cartoons were never intended for kids, and all Congress did was drive things underground or force artists to rely on double entendre. And even today, in the "funnies pages" proper, even the strips that are intended to be funny, most kids wouldn't get the joke.
"my point was that calling something manga was not to sub-categorize it as you seem to think should happen. it's merely to show it's japanese."
Since you're a lingual purist, if it's to show that it's Japanese, why not call it "Japanese?" If "manga" only meant "Japanese," why bother using the word "manga" to begin with?
"not japanese comics not manga,"
Back to my earlier analogy, you are insisting that the works of the British Rolling Stones can't be called "rock-and-roll."
"they are american. therefore they should be called comics."
Again, we already have an adjective for "American," and it is (strangely enough) "American."
"when was the last time you called a japanese car a kuruma?"
First off, we're talking about art, something far more subjective than what to call a machine. Secondly, you're insisting that a Toyota cannot be called a "car" because "car" means "American."
"we only takes words when we don't have a word. we have a word for comics and should leave it at that."
We shouldn't say "katana," we already have the word "sword." The Japanese shouldn't say "bai bai," they already have the word "sayonara." What next, people in France shouldn't say "email?"
"Americans already have a word for stylized picture-panel drawings."
Americans already had a name for what Buddy Holly and the Crickets were doing: country music.
"I see no need to borrow a word to replace what we already have."
You don't believe that the artistic style is different and distinct enough to set it apart from all the other genres? What other than manga uses such exaggerated facial features on human characters to convey emotion?
"I see using "manga" on an American comic is simply a lame marketing attempt to latch onto something that's "hip" or "cool", despite being neither, all while diluting a loan word that fans have used to mean "japanese comics" as a short hand to identify what they like, same with "anime"."
Therefore all uses of the label "manga" outside of Japan must be improper? Seems rather extremist.
"Technically, in Japanese all animation is "anime", just that English-speaking fans have used it as a short hand for "Japanese animation"."
Technically, a "comic" is supposed to be funny (derived from the word "comedy" and all).
"The fact that I like Japanese comics doesn't mean that I think Japanese people are superior, I just happen to like their comics. I don't think Americans or Korean people as inferior, just that most of their comics aren't to my tastes."
But you apparently think that American or Korean artists are wholly incapable of effectively using the genre. Buddy Holly should have been black and the Rolling Stones should have been from the South. Mary Cassatt should have been French and Vladimir Nabokov should have kept writing in Russian.
"Peach Fuzz is nice, but I don't call it manga, there's more to manga than just a drawing style, with Japanese comics, there's a whole different culture involved that simply copying a stereotype generally results in a woefully inferior product."
What I find funny about your statement about Japanese culture is that it is a culture that tries its best to mirror our own for at least the past half-century. Western fascination with Japanese pop culture is far from one-way, or haven't you noticed all the Engrish?
"no if it aint american it aint a 'toothbrush', or a 'house', or a 'cat'. it's the national-language-of-the-country's word for that object."
First off, we have no national language. Secondly, the language in question is English. Us anglophones have the nasty habit of mugging other languages for their words. Like "anglophone."
"in america, multiple drawings used to convey an event or narrative are called 'comics'."
Assuming there is one and only one proper name for that category of art (again, English), you don't believe it's possible to have distinct sub-categories consisting of a particular style?
And besides, we have a history of sub-categories of one genre branching out and becoming a genre of their own. Otherwise, going back to my original analogy, you'd have us all call rock-and-roll "country music."
Heck, your use of the word "comic" suggests that everything should be funny. What should we call everything in the "comic" book rack that isn't Archie?
"and it shows more respect since the comics industry in this country has been stunted and is mostly for kids."
This just goes to show that, if you repeat a lie enough times, it's eventaully accepted as truth.
Slashdot Mirror
"Law broken. Law breaker arrested. I fail to see what the big deal is."
We're not questioning whether or not taking down the blogs was lawful, we're questioning the validity of the law itself.
Because it's far more honest than the various euphamisms and other means we try to avoid the subject of the reality of race in this country. "We're not segregated, this is just a white neighborhood."
Because of her anti-war stance, Eartha Kitt was far more at home in France than the United States for a time.
"The FACT is, French police allowed many of these areas to become "no law" zones.
I don't care what your political bent is, I don't care that you have a bug up your butt about Bush and the US, the only thing that matters is THEY ALLOWED THESE AREAS TO BECOME NO LAW ZONES.
If that's not pandering to them, then they need to change the definition of pandering."
It's called "abandoning your post," much like the LAPD did in 1992 (with similar results). "Pandering" would have involved setting up a special, independent, immigrant-only police force to patrol these areas.
Is a parent that abandons their child said to be pandering to them?
"So, then immigration isn't a "foreign policy"? That means it must be a domestic policy."
Correct: naturalization policy is a domestic matter. For example, you will note that it is listed in Article I, section 8 of the United States Constitution among other domestic policy powers of Congress.
"I agree, this whole mess is the result of two stuupid kids who didn;t listen, and instead ran from police. The blame lies with them."
My, that's a loaded statement, blaming the victims. Pop quiz: people with guns are violating your rights, what do you do? Just because they were police officers doesn't mean what they were doing was lawful.
"a. they don't randomly check green cards
b there is an outrage when they do."
Whether or not something happens or whether or not there is an outraged response when it happens doesn't decide whether or not an action is legal. Those are red herrings.
"you mix up african and north-african (arabic) culture."
They are from the African continent, are they not? Or am I not "American" because I have fair skin and speak neither Spanish nor Portugese? Are people in the United States and Canada "European?"
"Ethnically segregated" need not mean that they are segregated by a deliberate state policy. Circumstance and differing cultures can opt to voluntarily segregate themselves to a degree, by choosing to live near and associate only with similar, like-minded individuals.
I think you're a little to used to the word "segregation" being used to describe state policy in the US before the 1960's, but even today blacks and whites tend to stay with their own even without the state government explicitly telling them to do so. "Segregation" can mean "apartheid," but it can also be a synonym to "partitioning."
"People live wherever they can afford to."
Poor blacks tend to live in the inner cities rather than trailer parks, even though they cost about the same. The opposite can be true for poor whites, but to a lesser degree. There are more decisions involved beyond the cost of housing.
Would you rather an official state policy of diaspora?
Disclaimer: I am making some unverified assumptions here for the sake of argument.
Ranma 1/2
By Rumiko Takahashi, from Japan, raised in a home that spoke Japanese
Published in English, reading from left to right, in the United States
Is it manga?
Peach Fuzz
By Jared Hodges & Lindsay Cibos, from New York & Florida (respectively), raised in homes that spoke English
Published in English, reading from left to right, in the United States
Is it manga?
Sinfest
By Tatsuya Ishida, from Pennsylvania, raised in a home that spoke Japanese
Published in Engish, reading from left to right, in the United States
Is it manga?
My own answers: yes, yes, no.
According to your rule, if my friend is a human being, I'd say "My friend's house," but if my friend were a pet rock, I'd say "My friend house." The latter sounds like I've made friends with a house, or that I have a special house specifically for friends.
"America" isn't a person, either. Should the US Army change the name of its game/recruiting tool to "America Army?"
I think my patent could come to many peoples' aid, such as the people of the United States as well as the people of Canada.
First off, "friend" is pretty common, since it's not capitalized, so supposedly it shouldn't have an apostrophe either. I'm assuming by "common noun" your English teacher meant "not a proper noun." Besides, a "friend" need not be a person ("Say 'Hello' to my little friend.")
Secondly, "my car's wheel" denotes the wheel that belongs to the car that you own, demonstrating that you own both the car and the associated wheel. "My car wheel" is a wheel that belongs on a car, but not necessariy the car that you own (if you even have a car).
"to me, manga is a medium,"
The medium is ink on paper. It's what you do with said ink and paper that makes it manga.
If manga relied primarily on Japanese cultural references, then it wouldn't sell well outside of Japan to begin with. Us gaijins gobble it up because we find we can relate to the stuff.
"rock and roll? are you stupid? what word would we use besides rock and roll? there's no word for it so of course the word would be spread with the genre."
You'd call it "country music," where it started. It wasn't born in a vacuum, any more than the genre of graphical art we call "manga."
And, as you pointed out, the genre of rock-and-roll did spread. People didn't cry bloody murder when somebody that wasn't black and/or from Appalachia tried to do it, bemoaning how what The Animals were doing couldn't possibly be called "rock-and-roll" because they weren't immersed in the culture that gave birth to it.
"toyota IS called a car because we're in america, which is my point."
No, you're striving for maintaining cultural purity through language and naming conventions. Those things that Toyota manufacturers might be called "automobiles," but as far as American English is concerned, the word "car" was applied first to those four-wheeled things churned out from Detroit and therefore should only apply to products from Detroit.
"this stuff should be called a comic because we're not in japan. i didn't say that car means american,"
You are attempting to maintain a cultural separation between the US and Japan by insisting that graphical art from the US be called "comics" and graphical art from Japan be called "manga," looking only at nationality instead of artistic style.
Saying "comic" must mean American and "manga" must mean Japanese, you are in effect also saying that "car" must mean American. You're the one essentially insisting that what Toyota manufactures must be called "kurumas."
Heck, not even all the graphical art from US artists can be called "comic." I can't remember the last time Prince Valiant made me laugh.
"katana is a specific TYPE of sword, it is not a general word for sword. sword is a very general word."
A katana is a style of sword, and manga is a style of graphical art. "Manga" need not mean "Japanese" any more than "impressionist" means "French."
I wish to patent my technique for adding an apostrophe to a noun to make it posessive. For example:
Patents' Chilling Effect on Science
Actually, the "official" word (abbreviation) is "courriel."
Now there's a question for the "if it ain't Japanese it can't be manga" folks: given that the author has a name like "Tatsuya Ishida," would you call Sinfest manga?
"what? are you saying that's a lie or what? the wikipedia article is a lie? i don't understand what you are saying is the lie."
No, the lie was "the comics industry in this country has been stunted and is mostly for kids." Before Congress got involved, American comics and cartoons were never intended for kids, and all Congress did was drive things underground or force artists to rely on double entendre. And even today, in the "funnies pages" proper, even the strips that are intended to be funny, most kids wouldn't get the joke.
"my point was that calling something manga was not to sub-categorize it as you seem to think should happen. it's merely to show it's japanese."
Since you're a lingual purist, if it's to show that it's Japanese, why not call it "Japanese?" If "manga" only meant "Japanese," why bother using the word "manga" to begin with?
"not japanese comics not manga,"
Back to my earlier analogy, you are insisting that the works of the British Rolling Stones can't be called "rock-and-roll."
"they are american. therefore they should be called comics."
Again, we already have an adjective for "American," and it is (strangely enough) "American."
"when was the last time you called a japanese car a kuruma?"
First off, we're talking about art, something far more subjective than what to call a machine. Secondly, you're insisting that a Toyota cannot be called a "car" because "car" means "American."
"we only takes words when we don't have a word. we have a word for comics and should leave it at that."
We shouldn't say "katana," we already have the word "sword." The Japanese shouldn't say "bai bai," they already have the word "sayonara." What next, people in France shouldn't say "email?"
"Americans already have a word for stylized picture-panel drawings."
Americans already had a name for what Buddy Holly and the Crickets were doing: country music.
"I see no need to borrow a word to replace what we already have."
You don't believe that the artistic style is different and distinct enough to set it apart from all the other genres? What other than manga uses such exaggerated facial features on human characters to convey emotion?
"I see using "manga" on an American comic is simply a lame marketing attempt to latch onto something that's "hip" or "cool", despite being neither, all while diluting a loan word that fans have used to mean "japanese comics" as a short hand to identify what they like, same with "anime"."
Therefore all uses of the label "manga" outside of Japan must be improper? Seems rather extremist.
"Technically, in Japanese all animation is "anime", just that English-speaking fans have used it as a short hand for "Japanese animation"."
Technically, a "comic" is supposed to be funny (derived from the word "comedy" and all).
"The fact that I like Japanese comics doesn't mean that I think Japanese people are superior, I just happen to like their comics. I don't think Americans or Korean people as inferior, just that most of their comics aren't to my tastes."
But you apparently think that American or Korean artists are wholly incapable of effectively using the genre. Buddy Holly should have been black and the Rolling Stones should have been from the South. Mary Cassatt should have been French and Vladimir Nabokov should have kept writing in Russian.
"Peach Fuzz is nice, but I don't call it manga, there's more to manga than just a drawing style, with Japanese comics, there's a whole different culture involved that simply copying a stereotype generally results in a woefully inferior product."
What I find funny about your statement about Japanese culture is that it is a culture that tries its best to mirror our own for at least the past half-century. Western fascination with Japanese pop culture is far from one-way, or haven't you noticed all the Engrish?
"no if it aint american it aint a 'toothbrush', or a 'house', or a 'cat'. it's the national-language-of-the-country's word for that object."
First off, we have no national language. Secondly, the language in question is English. Us anglophones have the nasty habit of mugging other languages for their words. Like "anglophone."
"in america, multiple drawings used to convey an event or narrative are called 'comics'."
Assuming there is one and only one proper name for that category of art (again, English), you don't believe it's possible to have distinct sub-categories consisting of a particular style?
And besides, we have a history of sub-categories of one genre branching out and becoming a genre of their own. Otherwise, going back to my original analogy, you'd have us all call rock-and-roll "country music."
Heck, your use of the word "comic" suggests that everything should be funny. What should we call everything in the "comic" book rack that isn't Archie?
"and it shows more respect since the comics industry in this country has been stunted and is mostly for kids."
This just goes to show that, if you repeat a lie enough times, it's eventaully accepted as truth.
"However, neither of them really fit the newspaper format---something that you can pick up whenever you want."
Not a follower of Prince Valiant, are we?
"If it ain't Japanese it ain't manga."
If it ain't American it ain't rock-and-roll?
Welcome to the taxpayer-supported University of Kansas.
Seriously, Kansas voters seem to feel strongly enough about the matter that it's only a matter of time.
"I don't see it as unscientfic, who's to say Aliens didn't create us."
You have a hypothesis? Go forth and test it.
Untestable hypotheses, ideas that are neither provable nor disprovable, aren't science.
"ethical concerns don't just go away if you're "private sector"."
Not a corporate executive, are we?