Funny thing is here in Russia my friend and I always argue about whether U.S. is a threat. Raised in USSR my friend firmly believes U.S. is solely committed to dominate Russia. "I don't want them told us what to do" - these are his words. I'm not so sure really. Both U.S. and Putin's Russia extends influence by every possible means. Both often break international law and manipulate press. And generally behaves very much the same. My point is that no doubt politics has their agenda and citizens of both countries divides on those who willingly go to play their game as a pawns and those who don't. And as long as you are trying to justify which side is more flawed you are into that game.
I once bought a Chinese USB drive which contained a virus. It was new and unpacked, from transend or some other brand, rubber case. Found it after manual mounting under Linux.
> However, if you want up-to-date desktop apps, FreeBSD does not cut it. I think other versions of BSD would be even worse.
Speaking about desktop FreeBSD is like Fedora. The same fresh and untested software. I compared them side by side. Found 5 reproducible crashes in end user software. Also systemd is less a headache on desktop and FreeBSD wifi management really sucks.
> Maybe the best solution for systemd haters is Devaun?
As long as it's not backed up with Enterprise behind it means nothing for a real business usage. FreeBSD is not backed up either. No difference.
You are running desktop for 2 years and make judgment about servers. As I'm running _servers_ for about 10 years I would say it's wrong. There is a difference between using OS on one home PC and on a hundred of systems. $2.535 billion is not paid for using Suse as single desktop OS. And nobody pays for FreeBSD that much.
> Shuttleworth explains: "One of the things I'm most proud of is in the last 7 years is that Ubuntu itself became completely sustainable."
Man, do you know that sustainable is not about you but about how often your project changes hourses? I gave up on your Ubuntu ambitions long before now. When you anounced the convergence idea it was obvious that in a market of Android and Windows you don't have a chance. Now you drop it. Seems like I have more sense then Ubuntu leader, so why follow?
Logical indeed. But other apps should be written that way. I'm not sure if this is always true on Windows. Don't see why Mac OS X is better. Files in/Users/username also accessable by every app.
This is funny only from a single-user PC perspective, but remember UNIX is a multi-user server system. Yep, if it's your files you _are_ a king. Nothing wrong here. No fool proof behaviour cause users are not considered for fools.
In my country a Linux migration was more a talk then walk. When Germans reported about success I though: "Said and Done. True nation." But now all this talking about back-forth switching... May be it's already enough? An IT infrastructure is not something you change every season.
> if not a majority, are still running broken Windows XP and even piratated Windows 3.1.
This is simply not true. We (not me personaly because I'm a Linux user) pirate any modern staff (MS products, Adobe, etc) very fast, partly because a lot of cracking teams are from xUSSR.
> Since these people do not use credit cards online, they do not care about security.
Well, it's actually simpler to use cards in Russia then in U.S to make a transfer to your buddy. But I agree about lot's of infected machines.
> Russia cannot produce a single PC, notebook, or even a smartphone.
That's correct. Government can't but people is another story.
> I would not believe that it has got supernatural powers to enter firewalled hardened US government servers.
No supernatural powers of course, but Russia is known for IT outsourcing. A lot of Russians move to U.S. to work in companies like Microsoft, Amazon and so on. The world known debugging tool IDA pro (used for cracking) is also made by Russians.
I agree about wrench but... Man, nobody is scared of Siberia in Russia! We just live here. And usualy ROFL when came across something like this:
"The winter in Inner Mongolia is very unforgiving. At a freezing temperature of minus 20 and lower, with a constant breeze of snow from all directions, it was pretty hard to..."
I just don't get one thing. Let's look at OS that called Windows. It has two logout options. One to logout completely and kill all user processes and another that you can use remotely to keep your session and everything. Why do we have all this debate?? Linux session is what? Different by nature? Pardon my English.
wow! impressed!
the biggest problem for me is that/etc/init.d/my[tab] worked in any case. And with systemd I need special craft with aliases now. Notice, this:
in case service is disabled or stoped, you type: systemctl stop my[tab][tab][tab] - what the f*ck why it's not completing? is it just my mistake or is it disabled? we need to check status... then run something else etc..
in case of/etc/init.d/ you can always try run any command.
You definitely have a point here. I'm just afraid that it is not a level of maturity, but a deviation from paradigm. I like simple things such as "everything is a file", "configs in plain text", "combination of small tools". I also agree that renovation of init system is a necessity. But the fact I can't no longer easily manage services without special bash-completions tells me that something is horribly wrong with the new practices.
Yes, I cited the man page so I've read it. But don't you find it awkward if OS can do self repair after reboot? Is this a new feature of RHEL7? Move to XFS as a default and make obsoleted the usual "clearing orphaned inode" behavior? The XFS has it's repair path. First try to mount fs manually and it will replay the journal, if not then xfs_repair etc. Why not to make some twist to mount it with systemd first? You may find the reasons but my main point is that if it were init scripts in bash I could just read them instead lots of googling. I googled about/forcecheck for systemd, then about boot parameters, then about sources of systemd-fsck module, then... Systemd do old things in a new way, new files, new options.
On CentOS 6 I just open bash scripts, read them and change to make system bootable.
The mint team is doing a right thing. I'm writing this from a CentOS 7 machine that I'm using to test systemd. One day, when the XFS partition was corrupted I realized that the system can't do usual self check and self repair. Why? Because systemd.fsck module runs fsck.xfs which according to the manual "simply exits with a zero exit status". You can boot with init=/bin/bash, but can't correct system scripts to change the behavior, everything is in binaries now.
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Funny thing is here in Russia my friend and I always argue about whether U.S. is a threat. Raised in USSR my friend firmly believes U.S. is solely committed to dominate Russia. "I don't want them told us what to do" - these are his words. I'm not so sure really. Both U.S. and Putin's Russia extends influence by every possible means. Both often break international law and manipulate press. And generally behaves very much the same. My point is that no doubt politics has their agenda and citizens of both countries divides on those who willingly go to play their game as a pawns and those who don't. And as long as you are trying to justify which side is more flawed you are into that game.
I once bought a Chinese USB drive which contained a virus. It was new and unpacked, from transend or some other brand, rubber case. Found it after manual mounting under Linux.
> However, if you want up-to-date desktop apps, FreeBSD does not cut it. I think other versions of BSD would be even worse.
Speaking about desktop FreeBSD is like Fedora. The same fresh and untested software. I compared them side by side. Found 5 reproducible crashes in end user software. Also systemd is less a headache on desktop and FreeBSD wifi management really sucks.
> Maybe the best solution for systemd haters is Devaun?
As long as it's not backed up with Enterprise behind it means nothing for a real business usage. FreeBSD is not backed up either. No difference.
You are running desktop for 2 years and make judgment about servers. As I'm running _servers_ for about 10 years I would say it's wrong. There is a difference between using OS on one home PC and on a hundred of systems. $2.535 billion is not paid for using Suse as single desktop OS. And nobody pays for FreeBSD that much.
In every Windows 10 there is a WSL hidden deep inside. The Phantom Menace. Someday the Force awakens...
> Shuttleworth explains: "One of the things I'm most proud of is in the last 7 years is that Ubuntu itself became completely sustainable." Man, do you know that sustainable is not about you but about how often your project changes hourses? I gave up on your Ubuntu ambitions long before now. When you anounced the convergence idea it was obvious that in a market of Android and Windows you don't have a chance. Now you drop it. Seems like I have more sense then Ubuntu leader, so why follow?
Logical indeed. But other apps should be written that way. I'm not sure if this is always true on Windows. Don't see why Mac OS X is better. Files in /Users/username also accessable by every app.
This is funny only from a single-user PC perspective, but remember UNIX is a multi-user server system. Yep, if it's your files you _are_ a king. Nothing wrong here. No fool proof behaviour cause users are not considered for fools.
In my country a Linux migration was more a talk then walk. When Germans reported about success I though: "Said and Done. True nation." But now all this talking about back-forth switching... May be it's already enough? An IT infrastructure is not something you change every season.
Let's make a petition for Linus to ask him to write a small init. What would be better then correct integration of kernel and init.
Somebody explain to me please, how come that Lennart from RedHat _Desktop_ team, rules over everything?! I just don't get it.
Hi, as a Russian I'd like to make a few points.
> if not a majority, are still running broken Windows XP and even piratated Windows 3.1.
This is simply not true. We (not me personaly because I'm a Linux user) pirate any modern staff (MS products, Adobe, etc) very fast, partly because a lot of cracking teams are from xUSSR.
> Since these people do not use credit cards online, they do not care about security.
Well, it's actually simpler to use cards in Russia then in U.S to make a transfer to your buddy. But I agree about lot's of infected machines.
> Russia cannot produce a single PC, notebook, or even a smartphone.
That's correct. Government can't but people is another story.
> I would not believe that it has got supernatural powers to enter firewalled hardened US government servers.
No supernatural powers of course, but Russia is known for IT outsourcing. A lot of Russians move to U.S. to work in companies like Microsoft, Amazon and so on. The world known debugging tool IDA pro (used for cracking) is also made by Russians.
by the way... in russia we usually don't say "wrench" in a context like this, we say "soldering iron". FSB would used a hot soldering iron.:)
I agree about wrench but ... Man, nobody is scared of Siberia in Russia! We just live here. And usualy ROFL when came across something like this:
"The winter in Inner Mongolia is very unforgiving. At a freezing temperature of minus 20 and lower, with a constant breeze of snow from all directions, it was pretty hard to ..."
http://travel.nationalgeograph...
I remember taking a walk without hat at minus 32, buying an icecream at -25 and a -20 is a warm winter day for walking a child.
I just don't get one thing. Let's look at OS that called Windows. It has two logout options. One to logout completely and kill all user processes and another that you can use remotely to keep your session and everything. Why do we have all this debate?? Linux session is what? Different by nature? Pardon my English.
I'm 61 - so you must really be old )
wow! impressed! the biggest problem for me is that /etc/init.d/my[tab] worked in any case. And with systemd I need special craft with aliases now. Notice, this:
in case service is disabled or stoped, you type: systemctl stop my[tab][tab][tab] - what the f*ck why it's not completing? is it just my mistake or is it disabled? we need to check status... then run something else etc..
in case of /etc/init.d/ you can always try run any command.
Any link about the subject?
Symantec don't like it because who will buy the anitivirus if the RobinHoodware would spread.
You definitely have a point here. I'm just afraid that it is not a level of maturity, but a deviation from paradigm. I like simple things such as "everything is a file", "configs in plain text", "combination of small tools". I also agree that renovation of init system is a necessity. But the fact I can't no longer easily manage services without special bash-completions tells me that something is horribly wrong with the new practices.
fix to my post> But don't you find it awkward if OS can't do a self repair after reboot?
Yes, I cited the man page so I've read it. But don't you find it awkward if OS can do self repair after reboot? Is this a new feature of RHEL7? Move to XFS as a default and make obsoleted the usual "clearing orphaned inode" behavior? The XFS has it's repair path. First try to mount fs manually and it will replay the journal, if not then xfs_repair etc. Why not to make some twist to mount it with systemd first? You may find the reasons but my main point is that if it were init scripts in bash I could just read them instead lots of googling. I googled about /forcecheck for systemd, then about boot parameters, then about sources of systemd-fsck module, then... Systemd do old things in a new way, new files, new options.
On CentOS 6 I just open bash scripts, read them and change to make system bootable.
The mint team is doing a right thing. I'm writing this from a CentOS 7 machine that I'm using to test systemd. One day, when the XFS partition was corrupted I realized that the system can't do usual self check and self repair. Why? Because systemd.fsck module runs fsck.xfs which according to the manual "simply exits with a zero exit status". You can boot with init=/bin/bash, but can't correct system scripts to change the behavior, everything is in binaries now.
I agree with you. As someone how also tried to do the old things on a new platform, I also googled about something like this.