Slashdot Mirror
Linux Pioneer Munich Confirms Switch To Windows 10 (techrepublic.com)
The German city of Munich, once seen as a open-source pioneer, has decided to return to Windows. Windows 10 will be rolled out to about 29,000 PCs at the city council, a major shift for an authority that has been running Linux for more than a decade. From a report: Back in 2003 the council decided to to switch to a Linux-based desktop, which came to be known as LiMux, and other open-source software, despite heavy lobbying by Microsoft. But now Munich will begin rolling out a Windows 10 client from 2020, at a cost of about Euro 50m ($59.6m), with a view to Windows replacing LiMux across the council by early 2023. Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS, and will also reduce costs associated with running Windows and LiMux PCs side-by-side.
by all other Linuxers!
Really, it's just easier to run and maintain Windows on the desktop for the vast majority of people. I use Linux purely on servers, as the desktop experience is pretty sub-par, probably due to the lack of a single focused direction. When I last used the desktop, different apps and desktops used different hotkeys for things as simple as cut and paste, which is ridiculous. Linux for servers and OSX/Windows for desktop is a great setup.
The best chance Linux has of taking of is when support for Windows 7 ends in 2020. Under this plan they could end up switching to Windows 10 just as Linux begins to gain ground.
I for one won't be using Windows 10 and slowly transitioning my PCs to Linux Mint, and I think a significant number of computer enthusiasts will do the same. I'm finding Linux Mint to be very usable and to meet most of my needs. I may need to keep one Windows PC around for a while longer, but hopefully I'll find a way to get rid of that.
Linux is dying. The year that never was.
Guile theme rolling
You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.
I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform (Mint 18.1 right now, but I was a slacker...slackware for most of the time, I just grew old and didn't want to spend endless time finetuning everything), but I use windows 10 for my gaming pleasures, and at work we use windows 10 too (I work at a HUGE worldwide company now), and it doesn't suck. In fact, I'd wager that after 1 year...windows 10 actually kinda rule. It's easy to use, it's not ugly, it's functional, it's not breaking down every second day, it's fairly well protected and it actually just work. I'm a fan already, but it was a long road, because at home - I'm one of those 50+ something that still is a gaming freak, I have the latest hardware as always (1080Ti graphics card, and the latest i7 generation motherboard and processor), and on windows 10 it just doesn't suck. Not even at work, where we have MUCH less hardware, we're using vanilla Dell laptops with i5 processors, SSD storage devices, and D6000 Dell docking stations with 3 screens connected, works like a charm every day.
So yeah, I totally get it - if it works perfectly, if it runs smooth every day, if I don't have to concentrate on my freaking setup every day...but can concentrate just on my job - then I'm all for it!
Good job MS, for once!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
The did about the most dumb thing possible: They blamed Linux for their dysfunctional organization. They will have pretty much the same problems after the move with some new ones on top. And the only sane alternative, moving everything to web-apps, was not even considered.
What happened here is that the ones in charge let themselves be bought by MS.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
If that was the best they were able to pull off with Linux over all of that time, the switch to Windows is going to be a complete mess. It will be fun to see them spin it as positively as they can while trying to conceal all of the problems they encounter.
To do a quick financial audit of the officials making this decision.
Lobbying is really just another term for paid bribes.
I suspect someone got paid off big time.
Seems to me that is the only way that spending $59.6 Million on windows could be seen as a method of reducing costs.
First law of people: People are generally stupid.
It's actually a lot more feasible now for a business to have all users Linux than it was in 2003 - with so many business apps moved to the web, desktop matters much less now than it used to. You could probably run a lot of businesses off a Chrome Book these days.
But yeah, the Linux desktop is still a straight-up terrible experience for a "regular user", if you're wondering. I try a new one every few years, and every time I try to evaluate them fresh - like, "last time I couldn't get Samba config to work with the GUI... but I'll try again now". This time, I hit a bug very early on (in Ubuntu?) where I tried to install a package (a .deb maybe?) by double clicking on it. It put a little icon up that said "waiting to install" that never went away and never did anything. I checked online, saw a bunch of bug reports dating back years.
One answer was something about "use the new Ubuntu Software Center to install the old Ubuntu Software, then open it with that", another said to use a command line to install some other package manager. The real answer, of course, was to use the command line. That worked fine for me, but the fact that that's an acceptable answer - one that nobody cares to fix - is kind of a summary of why desktop Linux is never going to get there.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
While no one but the actual deciders know for sure, but I'd be more than willing to step out on the limb and say: This has absolutely nothing to do with Linux or Windows fitness for the job. They've been doing it for 10 years now, I'm pretty confident any bumps were long ironed out and everything works pretty decently.
Just as TFA said, Microsoft had been lobbying heavily. Never said they stopped. Obviously they kept at it, and finally got their foot in the door. Greed seems to be on a helluv a winning streak in our society.
>Then again Munich is where Hitler got his start and we know where that lead.
Some really snazzy-looking, Hugo-Boss-designed Nazi Uniforms?
what a deal for them. Why do you do it? Your problem wasn't Linux, it was your organization.
It's upsetting that the list of major Linux problems has existed pretty much unchanged for almost ten years now and very little of it changes year in and out.
Once we get a stable long term supported Linux software platform along with an equally stable supported kernel, and not dozens of incompatible distros whose versions are not compatible even with themselves, then maybe Linux on the desktop might have a chance. Right now it's a toy, and companies need instruments to work with, not toys. And don't remind me of LSB - it never really took off. The closest to LSB is RHEL but it's not a standard.
MS moved its base in Germany to Munich. Subsequently, Munich had a new election for the city council. Surprisingly, the new major decided that Linux does not work and that there are too many security restrictions with Linux. This is what effective lobbying can do for you. Still other cities and towns go in the the other direction.
Linux in the server room, Windows on the desktop.
can bide their time and wait for either the latest bribe to work, or for a more "compatible" decision-maker to be installed. And now Microsoft can falsely claim that the Linux experiment was a disaster and Munich is returning to quality MS software, which is nonsense.
Almost all of my work is done on Linux servers. I currently administer about 1,000 physical and 6,000 virtual Linux servers. No question that Linux is superior to all other OSes for what I do. At the office, my laptop is OSX based and my desktop is Windows 10. Linux desktop is craptastic and a waste of time. There I said it, I'm ready for the downvotes coming from the zealots. I tried various desktop Linux distros and ended up back with OSX or Windows. The productivity drain and compromises were not worth it.
In the case of gnope, every release either breaks something, or takes away some functionality that distributions have to excessively patch in order to give some consistency to their userbase. And kde has never been more buggy. Just when a version starts to get stable, they ditch it and start over. The whole Linux mantra of "release early and release often" just doesn't work for desktops (or phones for that matter). Users want consistency and stability, which neither gnome or kde give them.
I've been responsible for deploying vast numbers of desktops for years, both Mac and Linux. This smacks of the owners of the purse strings being wined and dined. This Linux deployment really stuck in Microsoft's craw when it happened and they have never forgotten it. It seems to me, and I've had the unfortunate experience of having to work with people from Microsoft, they seem to have a sense of entitlement to any and every large desktop deployment scenario, especially when it comes to the government. Gov contracts are lucrative and everyone knows it, and they tend to be re-negotiated. Microsoft software is generally sub-par all things considered. I far prefer working with open source software or Apple stuff.
Again, I've personally deployed more desktops than I can remember, and for the last few years, it's been Mac and Linux only. I will never again recommend Windows for any reason unless the software is so vertical that there are zero alternatives. When this happens, I usually will not contract out for it, but will recommend people that will. I've lost money over the years, but dealing with Microsoft and their licensing and technical support is dealing with pillars of intransigence. No thank you. Apple and Canonical are far easier to deal with.
How dare you! Linux is perfect!!!
Microsoft and the intels of the world congratulate you! Happy stolen data, Munich!
It seems very many schools are using Chromebooks, which must be described as Linux Desktops.
Linux will not beat Windows or OS X on their own game. But they can win another game.
Think is you can't switch to Linux and expect it to be Windows. I think Munich had bean counters who thought, hey its just a OS so let's use something cheaper. Not taking into account what a OS is there for in the first place. To run software and applications that work for the system. It appears the learning curve was just too much and they had chaos trying to move from Windows to Linux. Linux is great in its own way, but its not Windows it does not have the vast amount of software available and supported. That is why Linux is so good on servers and special dedicated purposed machines.
It is astounding to see the number of controversy theorists in the comments talking about lobbying and bribed officials. Does it really hurt your ego to accept that for a particular organization of a particular scale and type, Linux might not be the best option ?
I am a research scientist. I spend my time analyzing large amounts of microscopy data in Python, R etc. on very capable hardware. But you know what I found ? Windows 10 does fine. Everything works. I have no reason to use Linux. I went from Linux all the time, to dual-booting Linux just in case I needed it, to Windows all the time in 10 years.
Of course, I have an Android phone and a Chromebook....so I do use Linux (technically). The tremendous success of Android and Chromebooks (or MacOS) should be an obvious indication that there is nothing wrong with the Linux kernel or the Unix/BSD/POSIX standard. What is wrong with Linux distros is that they don't simply work reliably. And Windows 10 does. It isn't 98 or Vista. MS might be evil but with Windows 10 they delivered a good product. They delivered exactly what people wanted. They even included a Linux VM now. Google took the Linux kernel and delivered good products that were reliable and easy to use and did what everyone expected them to do.
So please, there IS something lacking in Linux desktop distros. Drivers, apps, reliabilty etc. depending on whatever flavor you are using. The world is not full of fools and charlatans who like to give away money to MS. People see tangible value in Windows 10. Better that the distro makers learn what they can from Windows 10. Don't be like Mozilla. Make the Linux equivalent of FF Quantum if you want to stay competitive.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
So, who knows where they will be then. That and we will have churned through at least 2 windows iterations by then.
"Release new products early, then release updates to them often" is great for users.
"Release new products early and release their complete replacements often" is bad for users.
The Linux community does the second, rather than the first.
Instead of this for a single tool, library, application, or environment:
10.0 this month
10.1 next month
10.2 the month after that
10.3 the start of next year
Linux does this for a single tool, library, application or environment:
10.0 this month
2017.3.51 next month
Project Congo Free the month after that
Project Riga 29.6 Base the start of next year
The releases are often enough... but sadly each release often has so little to do with the last that users, packagers, and integrators are starting over each time.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS
I can fully understand why. I've been using Linux on and off for over a decade and a half, even paid for SuSE!!!!. I've run Linux Mint on a Thinkpad for a few years, no problems. Decided to put it on my desktop. Only problem is I have a NVIDIA Geforce 1060 GTX graphics card. Little did I realise just what an absolute nightmare it was going to be even to just get the Live DVD to boot to a GUI. Ended up having to re-enable onboard Intel Graphics just to be able to boot the live distro and install it. I then wasted an hour and a half of my life doing lots of HDMI swapping and rebooting trying the various suggested solutions to get the installed OS running with a GUI on the Geforce 1060. I did manage to achieve it which was more by luck than design but then I updated the graphics driver and bam, broken again.
So after an hour and a half of trying to do what should be a very simple job which had never been a problem in the past on my old desktop with an older version of Mint running a NVIDIA 9600GT and which had never ever been an issue on the various NVIDIA cards I've had since I'd run Linux from the days of RH6.3 I booted into Windows and ran bootsect /nt60 c: /mbr
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
This is something that often gets lost on Slashdot. People are so busy complaining about privacy (which the average user can't give a crap about), or lost work because you haven't saved your work for the night and ignore the notifications that an update is pending (which the average user can't give a crap about), and all the talk about start menus and control panels (which the average user can't give a crap about) to realise what has actually changed under the hood.
In the mean time we have an OS that in its current iteration is incredibly stable (no, not things like the on screen keyboard not popping up, but rather no reboot forcing crashes), relatively well protected (very few attacks go directly for the Windows OS now because of it) and even has similar active protective features to SELinux.
Under the hood it's faster than the previous versions, more capable out of the box, actually works as a tablet OS (not that I imagine most people here will care), and in general end users don't really care much about it, neither for nor against.
Shame about the privacy aspects.
I had a go at Windows 10 pro and it is spyware and it does not even hide the fact.
I use Windows 7 is a pay system you can lock down Windows 7.
I have always use Linux/UNIX. I had to copy a simple HTML purchase page over to a Windows system
I tried dragging and dropping it SMB:// the reply was invalid copy. Tried moving it to a memory stick same error message.
Everybody else on their Windows system had already copied it. I had to remove the HTML by renaming it to make it just a readme file before I could copy it..
Once I had got it on to the Windows system I then renamed it back to its original name with the HTML.
Linux/desktop can slow down the workflow as a desktop and have you cursing the thing for messing up simple tasks.
Agreed. I use Ubuntu on dozens of servers, I have a dual-boot Ubuntu partition on my Thinkpad. It works well for servers. It works well for embedded. It doesn't work well on the desktop. There are too many applications I need to use on a regular basis that are either Windows-only or just plain better under Windows. Heck, Ubuntu is built into Windows at this point with the WSL. I run Linux applications side-by-side with Windows applications on my desktop with *no virtualization or emulation required*. You can't do that under straight-up Ubuntu. Windows 10 is fast and secure. It sounds though that in this case, the real driver is Office. And I'm not surprised. I have people send me spreadsheets all the time in .xlsx format, and a lot of them are either unreadable by Excel or load with errors. Sometimes they're from LibreOffice, but most of the time they're from Google Sheets.
What's easier than some plain text config files in a shared directory?
GUIs arent easier to maintain. They are much harder due to being so cumbersome and not automatable nor flexible.
Call me when you can put parts of registry in a version management repository on an central server, and edit it in a plain text editor.
Okay, working with a few groups that have to keep confidential data and medical data secure I can say that Windows 10 sends out data routinely that you cannot shut off that people working with such data can't afford to have leaving the organizations part of whose mandate is to protect that data. Moving to windows will probably introduce problems, is unlikely to fix any, and with Windows 10 (they can get Windows 7) they are sending out citizen data to a foreign power. (The USA loves this). This was recognized by China who told Microsoft point blank they were required to make a special China version of Windows 10 that would not send data to a foreign power. Microsoft of course said "yes" to this. If it got out that private public data was being sent directly to a foreign power, the German people would be up in arms. Germany's privacy laws are more strict than most countries. If they insist on this experiment (which will be a death march, just watch), they should at least use Widows 7.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
My experience is similar.
The only time I have trouble with Windows 10 is when my dev toolchain starts acting up because of unsupported old shit. My main pain: VS2008, Windows Mobile Device Center, and all of the necessary crap to maintain an old-ass Windows Mobile 6.5 (.Net Compact Framework 3.5) app. All of these components, with the sole exception of WM6.5 itself, are deprecated and unsupported, and have been for at least the last 5 years. (WM6.5, renamed as Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, is "supported" until 2020. Technically.)
Other than that, I have zero problems running Windows 10. Everything else hums along just fine.
All Operating Systems sucks, trademarked words in it does not make it suck less. :-)
I've only had a couple of thousands desktop Linux and Windows clients under my control back in the day, and it really is no difference at least moneywise, it is easier to do hires for Windows as long as you pay the senior guy enough to keep him. Happily I've heard that out sourcing is working pretty well on the Windows side so it's going to be a lot cheaper than Linux soon.
Linux might not be for you and your environment, but that doesn't mean it sucks more than your prefered variant.
Going from a fairly secure OS to one with viruses daily.
And yet people will still pay to use Windows over free Linux. Must make you pretty butthurt.
Only when 'people' means 'the government' and 'will still pay' means "doesn't give a shit because they stole the money from 'the people' in the first place".
Welcome to the Windows botnet
no, it's one additional advantage tp running an operating system put together by people concerned with security and leave the larger attack surfaces of windows and systemd to the phb drones.
* Not having my clickpaths uploaded. ...
* Not having MS permanently listening in via microphone!!
* Not having to deal with *manual* software package management in freaking 2017! (No, "apps" do not count, msi is not package management, and the Windows Update default drivers are useless crap.)
* Not having to install antivirus, a firewall, a spyware scanner, a trash cleaner, a bearable editor, calculator, file manager, image viewer, media player, browser, etc to get out of lowest-common-denominator hell. (Most of those actually being open source and/or originally Linux software.)
* Not being insulted by being treated like a retard at every possible instance.
* Actually seeing what is a button and what is just a caption.
* Plus you can't even choose which launcher or window manager or widget kit etc you want to use.
And don't even try "But you can disable those". Yeay, only for MS to enable them again at the next forced update! They should not exist in the first place! How spineless of a deluded livesstock does one have to talk oneself into finding that acceptable?
* Driver support is generally *better* under Linux. I had to install freaking XP in a VM, just to get the scanner to work! Ditto for any not that new hardware!
* And bringing up games in a discussion bout city administration PCs is such a cheap shot Especially with games generally running *quicker* under Wine, and Mesa supporting DirectX now, and the whole argument being circular reasoning anyway. Since the games industry *chose* to not support Linux even thou that is very easy, "because" "nobody games under Linux". Yeah, no shit, when you are deliberately boycotting it!
I bet you are one of those morons who not only can't shell script, but do not even understand why GUIs are not superior.
(Aka you are not a computer user, aka somebody who automates his work away, but a user of hard-wired app(liance)s that happen to use a computer.)
My GF and my grandma use Linux since ~1.5 years ago, and that is the first time I haven't heard any complaints from them anymore.
(Plus I can remote in through a properly encrypted tunnel, not that Teamviewer shit that goty GFs system hacked.)
I use both. Both suck.
The difference:
1. I don't pay anything for one.
2. If it's broke I can fix it, they won't.
3. Revenue vs Utility.
Out.
Interesting mindset there!
PROTIP: Adaptability to what YOU need is THE POINT of Linux! That is why both your phone and every huge server it communicates with use it.
But I bet, there isn'even a "you".
There is only a tool, a drone at best, passively wanting and doing what it is told to want and do. Not an individual; not even a lifeform on its own. Just like your pinkie isn't alive on its own.
I like pirating the shit of that OS, if i wasn't able to pirate Windows, i already would have switched to linux a long time ago and so many people.
The only reason because Windows is so popular is because piracy.
Generally they are, but Lennart Poettering pulls the average down quite a bit.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Excuse me if this, and the following post all sound like the same old MS crap.
"Long time Linux user" - followed by credible list of distros and history.
"Don't have time to fiddle with settings anymore"
"Only use windows for gaming"
"great for embedded just not for desktop"
"Windows doesn't suck anymore"
blah, blah, blah
The real truth is long time LInux users are 'happier' with Linux then they've ever been. Long time Linux users know that LInux has left behind the days of "fiddling with the settings" nearly a decade ago. Linux 'desktop' users are jumping on board now more than ever because today's modern distros simply 'just work' without the user having to be a guru.
Looking at how LiMux was botched one has to stand in awe and amazement over the sheer incompetence with which the project was driven against the wall. I'd love to wrap those responsible into barbed wire and shoot them into the sun. That would be a gain for humanity.
Meanwhile Schwaebisch Hall has done the transition to Linux just fine. And without all the press and drumming.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I mean, not programmer jobs. But think of all the hookers! Being lobbied can be so rewarding.
"And yet people will still pay to use Windows over free Linux. Must make you pretty butthurt."
I will change "pay to use Windows over free Linux" for "pirate Windows than use free Linux".
Obviously you can get better quality for money, you have to pay if you want a really good thing. Professionals want money for work. Amateurs can not create really sophisticated systems. Not enough knowledge, not enough resources, not enough money, and no engineer who could be able to orchestrate the whole project. There is no Bill Gates or Steve Jobs in the linux world. You will never-ever see such complicated softwares on linux like SolidWorks, AutoCAD ... many other CADS, Visual Studio and I could list it for days.
And please don't start to argue about this until you are not a Visual Studio professional, and you know the "other side" also.
They got in on the hype but the hype did not live up. The Linux desktop is for hobbyists only, never forget that.
Hopefully, nobody else will try this again. This is all taxpayer money being wasted, after all...
Yup. You nailed it.
A bunch of idiots...
Clearly. That’s why Microsoft is bankrupt and defunct because no one pays them, right?
1. i get why they switched back to windows; the linux move also made some sense (maybe?) _at the time_ ... but the odds of them regretting it still seemed good. ... developing on/for it is a nightmare)
2. windows has definitely improved since they switched to linux. i am 0% surprised by this revert, and 100% surprised by the fact that windows has actually become a decent OS for anything (consumption mainly
3. please, dear god, don't use WSL if you have any way to avoid it. and if you don't, PLEASE don't be irresponsible and promote it. enough people relying on WSL will not end well...
Some people have argued that Linux does not work out for bureaucracies, civil servants or "large organizations". That made me laugh.
The French Gendarmerie (miltarized police) switched to Linux. But the organization was different. For example in lieu of bitching about non microsoft word processors not being compatible enough with whatever version of microsoft word, they dropped the proprietary formats and went to the .odt format. So, microsoft incompatibilities are not their problem anymore.
Because they made choices. And it worked out for them. A wikipedia summary here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
P.S. I sense an army of astroturfers on this topic, you guys aren't good at what you are doing.
You heard it here, folks - 2020 will finally be the year of the Windows Desktop!
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
Now, what was the question?
I'm sure there were plenty of palms greased via lobbyists.
As for Win10, I personally think it's a PIA. About 2x monthly, I have to delete the networked Officejet 7610 from my wife's computer because the driver can't find the printer, giving me a message that it is offline. Yet, I can open a command window and ping the printer, confirming that it is indeed on-line. I've never had a problem from my linux machine.
Any business which are actually using Windows 10 are run by retarded morons who are deliberately sticking their heads in the sand. Unfortunately that describes most people, so that's why nothing ever changes.
Windows is a huge problem for all kinds of different reasons, like integrated spyware, malware behaviour, bad UI, notoriously insecure and produced by habitual criminal company. Yet, somehow never seem to be an end to the excuses that are being considered acceptable, meanwhile any anthill problem with any alternative instantly gets turned into entire mountain ranges.
It's amazing how far people are willing to go to brainwash themselves.
Aren't you just putting put a straw man and cutting it down? The first time I saw a stable Windows machine was when I ran Win2k RTM. The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:
1) Runs Windows applications including DirectX
2) At least 10 years of security patches (like XP and Win7)
3) No other "features" like telemetry etc.
I'd be ready to buy and so would a lot of other people, I imagine. As an OS, I don't really know what more you can ask. The problem are all the anti-features, I'm on my Win10 aka my gaming box right now. I'm cool with that, it's closed source software and I'm probably tracked to high heaven in-game too. If it's streaming or whatever that's okay too. I just wouldn't trust it with anything important or private, as far as I'm concerned whatever I do on Win10 is broadcast to Microsoft. Since they like to reset my preferences, I can't trust any setting I make to actually stick. And you got six months before they start nagging you again to upgrade to whatever new stunt Microsoft wants to pull.
To be honest, I don't really look forward to migrating back to Linux (yes, been there done that used it as my main desktop for 3.5 years), there was always some issues you'd fiddle with and I'd rather just pay someone money to get that polish and be done with it. I'm just going to do it anyway because of Win10, how much grief it gives me doesn't really matter. But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The interface is butt ugly, non-intuitive, comes with built-in spyware, and breaks years of Start Menu design.
and use this to their advantage. Sort of a reverse of what Amazon's doing right now with their 2nd headquarters.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Not entirely incorrect though. There are those who would indeed rather pirate Windows than use a free alternative. Not myself of course, though most of the machines I've used have been branded with a Windows COA.
Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.
Or some critical feature doesn't work out of the box, like the taskbar and start menu, due to some other undesired feature like Cortana. (I should probably let that go,...)
In my experience, Windows 10 is becoming more like Linux, in a bad way.
Yes, yes it is. And I can't imagine all the retraining everyone will have to go through after 10 years of not using Windows and Office on their workstations.
...whether they accounted for this or not - it's the reality.
Microsoft moved the german central department to the city.
Fun fact: the city hired accenture to justify the deal.
You don't need to discuss whether 'li-mux' solution failed or not, it was a political decision.
Since they already use linux, wouldn't be cheaper if they spent those 50m ($59.6m) with KVM + virtual windows (office and stuff) products using VDi?
I don't believe they would, simultaneos access 29.000 office instances.
How much would cost a project with sheepdog + KVM + Windows virt license ?
All they need is a browser.
Something phishing about that change.
Sad but completely foreseeable, or at least it should have been by them. Of all tht things that could hinder Linux adoption, requirements to use Windows-only proprietary software is the one thing that can't be overcome in a reasonable fashion but should also have been easy to quantify. What were they expecting to happen when their organization apparently depended on hundreds of different Windows-only applications?
I have nothing against Microsoft - own their stock. But while you MS-heads are fighting for the last pork chop in the back alley, Linux heads are fighting a Galactic War.
Top500.Org
Our main goal was to become independent
Microsoft Germany moves into a new headquarters
Report by Microsoft partner Accenture
Self delusion and Stockholm Syndrome is a powerful thing. And also what drives the "year of the Linux desktop" mantra and people like you.
Million dollar question. Will Microsoft keep it side of the treaty and move it's german HQ? Remembering that the now ruling party in the city council has always vowed to return to Windows because MS in turn would move the HQ into the city .
So, is MS move the HQ??
I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform
Welcome to my boat. Have a seat, there is cold beer in the cooler.
I've been apart of the Linux community since day one. I started with dual tar ball install on an Amiga 3000. I still use a headless Linux box for my household file server.
But my general workstation is windows 10. So is my workstation at work. An the reason is it simply works 99% of the time. I don't have to fuss with strange Xwindows settings or wonder why my sound doesn't work.
Windows just simply works.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.
Sorry but no it doesn't. I've been running the same load of windows since 2009 when windows 7 first came out. I have upgrade through service packs, skipped windows 8, and did a in place upgrade to 10. I've swapped out hardware several times, including complete rebuilds, and my system has been rock steady for years at a time.
The only time it got unstable was when I had a bad harddrive in my system. I replaced it and it went right back to being rock stable.
Of course if you have wonky hardware or you are loading weird shit on to your system, then you will probably have issues.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Users have no say in the matter. The org or business chooses their software and platform(s). Most applications are server based with basic front-ends. You being a gamer have no clue about such matters. You're just a zealot that thinks e-penis values are real. No one cares about your bleeding edge video card and crap drivers. Business software merely needs to work. Unless an application is needed by the business, the underlying OS is 100% irrelevant. But why what a dweeb gamer know. How sad, over 50 years old, and playing video games. What a waste of life. Mom still do your clothes too?
Windows 10 has a number of nice features, such as the UWP, support for modern hardware like touch screens (with a touch compatible interface), high resolution screens, HDR, fast wake up etc, and great integration with the cloud, especially Office 365.
Linux may be the more solid operating system, but it offers none of the those features. So if you want to use them, Windows 10 is the winner by default.
The lazy politicians and bureaucrats counld not be bothered to learn to do something different, so the taxpayers get to pay Millions to Microsloth, and the global megacorp will get recordings of every mouse move and every keystroke made by every employee of that government.
The politicians do not care one teensy bit that any info they enter into their computers about any of their citizens will go straight into some Microsloth server to be analyzed, parsed, collated, and possible sold to ANY buyer at some point in the future and without their consent. Note: the Political morons of Munich might well be able to accept a shrinkwrap license with its evil terms, but they cannot accept on behalf of the innocent individual citizens whose data will be vaccumed.
Every citizen of every country whose government uses Apple or Microsoft products should be suing, as none of these people are consenting to the indirect spying by these "global citizen" corporations that is going on.
Haha, great - I might take you up on that beer.
Amiga 3000 is high class right there, I remember swapping my Amiga 1200 (which had better graphics as you probably know already) for an A3000. But I expanded it with a v-motion card and an insanely overpriced graphics card anyway), good times!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
I use Linux since the very early days of 1992. I have been using Slackware then Mandrake (which became Mandriva) then Debian for years and finally for the last years Ubuntu personally and Centos professionally.
I switched from dual-boot systems to Linux only somewhere in early 2000. I've always had windows laptops in the companies I worked for although serious production machines were always running Linux.
You have to realize that "you cannot save everyone". Most people do not care about privacy, security or even stability (after years of Windows use they are now familiar with the reboot-to-fix pattern...). Add to this the MS lobbying, the stupid/lazy game industry and the corrupted representatives and you have the winner cocktail to why Linux will never become the desktop standard for everyone.
Now I don't try any more to push people to switch to Linux. Most people are not ready to trade any of their stupid habits for better practices or security. No matter, Linux will survive, without them. Linux is by far the #1 system in the world, ranging from low-end connected devices, raspberries, phones to cloud infrastructure and top 500 supercomputers (all of them actually). No other operating system is even close to achieve this... Anyone who has a bit of curiosity can easily move to Linux to run everything he needs, in a secure, controlled an reliable manner.
Why do you think Google wants to develop their own kernel to replace Linux in Android ? Linux is about giving freedom and ultimate power to the user, what Google wants is power to Google...
To specifically talk about Munich, I don't really know the case and why it failed. What I'm sure of, is that this is not because of Linux. It may be because of bad hardware choices (there are always a lot win-hardware in the wild), wrong people leading the project, bad training plan, wrong partnerships (I would prefer by far to partner with some company like RedHat than with MS).... who cares ?
What I know is who will pay for this... And Munich tax-payers will soon know what it means. And BTW guys, forget about any form of data privacy.
The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:
Cool so we agree then and we on Slashdot can stop with the Windows is unstable and shouldn't ever run any important software then. The only difference between your and my comment is the timeline.
But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Exactly. Something as I said seems to be lost on much of the IT community who do nothing but repeat tired jokes from the turn of the century. It's actually more telling how popular and widely used Microsoft's OS is *despite* their hostility towards users.
There's a lot of "if" coming off that statement. Perhaps Microsoft really improved Windows with version 10. At my employer I have a Windows 7 laptop which I use mostly for compiling software (my main desktop is Linux, thankfully). The Windows interface may be familiar to most people, but as a regular Linux user I find it fairly basic. There's no way to pin a window on top, for example, or even to have multiple virtual desktops. It doesn't even have symlink support!
On my Windows system, it's a rare day that it runs perfectly, or smoothly, or I don't have to concentrate on its setup. When something is wrong, the errors are often meaningless or misleading. For example, if a DLL needed by an EXE doesn't have execute permissions, you might get an error indicating that some other DLL couldn't be found. Or the system might skip that DLL and load a different one from later in that PATH. I waste much more of my time trying to keep the Windows build working than I do on Linux. And I mostly know what I'm doing -- I have no idea how average people fare. I gather they just ignore the problems as "that's Windows".
But worst of all, it is slow. Extremely slow. Mind bogglingly slow. The software I compile on it takes about 4 hours to completely build and test on Linux. And that's pulling all the data over the network (NFS and ClearCase). On Windows, it takes a minimum of 24 hours to build, and another 24 hours to test. And that's with everything copied to the local disk -- it takes twice as long if running over the network. I do daily builds on Linux, but only weekly builds on Windows. It's so slow it hinders my ability to use it.
Part of that slowness is likely related to all the dumb "security" software my employer installs on Windows. Lately, this software has made it so that about 2 out of 3 processes fail to start. You can imagine how much this would affect a build done using 'make'. I can't even get rsync to reliably start to copy the latest copy of the software from the network to the local drive.
This sort of dumbness is what the users of the Munich network can look forward to when they start getting their Windows clients. "Security" people (not real security people, but people who follow checklists and think that more security software always makes things better) will ruin whatever system shows up in Munich. They users will be longing for their Linux clients :)
"Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made
Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC.
Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC.
And buried in Windows 10 is the functionality needed to do it, too. Motive, opportunity, and a blank check.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.
Exactly. Something as I said seems to be lost on much of the IT community who do nothing but repeat tired jokes from the turn of the century.
The problems with windows as an OS aren't architectural any more, like they were before about Windows 2000. The problems with windows are related to Microsoft being Microsoft. Changing GUIs just to say they have changed, to the point where the organization of configuration tools makes less sense. Sure, you can find the thing you're looking for because there's a search function, but that's still a step backwards from sensible organization. And, of course, the spyware problem. That one is, frankly, insurmountable. Even as a volume-licensed corporate customer who has been told they can turn it all off, can you really trust Microsoft with a EULA that gives them permission to snoop through the entire contents of every computer running Windows?
It's actually more telling how popular and widely used Microsoft's OS is *despite* their hostility towards users.
Uh, no. Microsoft's OS is used because of their hostile business practices. This has been determined by multiple world governments, including in our own department of justice.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you hold Microsoft stock like you say you do then you know they don't give a shit about this. Their stock has been soaring for a couple of years and it has nothing to do with Windows.
Good thing there's so many salty Linux fanatic tears in here :)
Windows 10 already contains the infrastructure and tools needed to monitor everything employees do with their government computers and silently report it to Big Brother.. Of course the government prefers this.
Whenever I read a release note to a new Linux distro version I roll my eyes. Now includes the new Schinkelfluff 0.8.2009.7 instead of FluffyMcNutsack 8437687.2, and so on and so on. I've never heard of those programs before, I don't care, nobody cares, just like nobody cares about Linux. It's dead on desktop and will never succeed. 3% market-share after being given away for free for 20 years? Come on!
vendor lockin at its finest lol...
Arrrg! You revealed the Windows shill recipe!
You sound like a used car salesman.
My wager is you're trolling M$.
Why on Earth did they ever decide to build their own distribution?! This seems like it would have been a maintenance headache from day one.
Verizon ditched office for Google for business. Even their email is handled by google and employees can use Linux or Mac as their OS.
I suspect someone got paid off big time.
The geek's all-purpose excuse for any decision that doesn't go their way is bribery. It's so much simpler than trying to understand staffing, workflow and management in the office environment. In many ways, the client OS and apps is a much more subtle and intractabl problem than the server.
How many hookers and grams of coke that cost Micro$oft
While I loathe Windows 10 with every fibre of my being (though am quite happy with earlier versions of Windows - I use a mix of platforms depending on what I'm doing), the privacy angle is less of a point where you're talking about corporate workstations. On those, you have to assume at least that everything you do on your machine is visible to domain admins, and as regards the telemetry aspect of Windows 10, it's the domain admins' jobs to secure the data leaking out to MS' mothership.
The problem with Slashdot users is they see every change as change for change's sake.
Changing GUIs just to say they have changed
Microsoft invested millions of dollars in R&D before performing GUI changes. The ribbon had clear and lasting benefits to everyone, including eventually the stubborn people used to seeing everything on one menu. The metro interface ... well there were several papers published on information density, problem was that information density and minimising UI interaction were at odds with humans reading from top to bottom.
to the point where the organization of configuration tools makes less sense. Sure, you can find the thing you're looking for because there's a search function
I have yet to find anything in the new GUI that doesn't immediately make sense, ... other than the fact that they released it before all settings could be managed from it. Actually today I learnt from you that there's a search function. Cool. Haven't needed it in the past 2 years, probably won't need it in the future. If you know what to search for then you don't need to open settings at all, just hit the windows key and go for it. Hurrah good GUI design.
And, of course, the spyware problem. That one is, frankly, insurmountable.
About the only thing in your comment I agree on.
Even as a volume-licensed corporate customer who has been told they can turn it all off, can you really trust Microsoft
Err yes. It has been demonstrated that Enterprise editions of windows with the privacy settings enabled in group policy, Cortana disabled, and windows update pointed to a local WSUS server is incredibly quiet on the network.
Uh, no. Microsoft's OS is used because of their hostile business practices.
You keep believing that while your alternate OSes are either on unaffordable machines, or lack basic reliability to do things like wake from sleep, not to mention that every attempt to move the alternate OS in a direction towards usability in a normal scenario is met with utter hostility (see pulse audio, network manager, wayland, systemd, etc).
I think this represents a good opportunity for certain Linux businesses.
Just as Linux has consolidated its presence in the server arena, thanks to a healthy competition between Red Hat, Oracle, SuSE and others, I guess the integration, management and control between all kinds of services (and servers) and desktop computers (be them Linux or Windows) is a golden opportunity to move up to the next level.
I guess Munich's folks would not need to do all the things by themselves, had they hired someone to conduct a more orderly migration. Let's see if someone will tackle that "problem". The potential for profit is very attractive IMHO.
Its a Surface Pro 4. Customizability pretty much depends on Microsoft attachments.
The system isn't unstable, I just have something change its functionality to a completely different paradigm everytime I update to a new version of Windows 10. As of Fall Creators Update I can no longer change the resolution on external monitors. Oh, but it appears I can change the resolution of the built-in LCD, which didn't work for the plain Creators update.
'Bout the same with Linux. Every non-LTS release of Ubuntu has its quirks to work out.
Microsoft invested millions of dollars in R&D before performing GUI changes. The ribbon had clear and lasting benefits to everyone,
Wow, defensive much? I'm not even talking about the ribbon. I'm talking about various GUI changes between Windows 7 and Windows 10, with some pathetic stops along the way at 8 and 8.1.
Err yes. It has been demonstrated that Enterprise editions of windows with the privacy settings enabled in group policy, Cortana disabled, and windows update pointed to a local WSUS server is incredibly quiet on the network.
Until the next update, sure. You can only trust Microsoft to be bastards.
You keep believing that while your alternate OSes are either on unaffordable machines, or lack basic reliability to do things like wake from sleep,
They run on the same machines, and on most of them, wake from sleep works fine these days — so long as you configure Linux to lie and tell the PC that it is Windows, because the PCs are often configured to work improperly if you tell them anything else — because Microsoft wrote the tools used to create the power saving information. This is in fact more evidence of Microsoft malfeasance.
not to mention that every attempt to move the alternate OS in a direction towards usability in a normal scenario is met with utter hostility (see pulse audio, network manager, wayland, systemd, etc).
Pulseaudio was shit for years. Total abject shit. Network manager was also shit for years, and it totally bypasses the functionality built into the OS, which meant that it compromised your ability to use command-line tools, which means it's still shit. Wayland was resisted until the devs knuckled under and agreed to implement some kind of networking, which is to say that it was accepted when it was not shit. And systemd is still shit, written by the same guy who failed at pulseaudio for years.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Its a Surface Pro 4. Customizability pretty much depends on Microsoft attachments.
I have a surface pro 4 too. I've not noticed any strange things with it. When running it in desktop mode it seems to be just another portable computer to me.
Now I won't give windows 10 any good marks as a tablet OS. It pretty much fails miserably there. It is usable but any android launcher will beat it with out working up a sweat.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I still miss my Amiga 3000. I love the look of that machine; and the feel of the keyboard. The freaking control key was in the right spot! To this day I still hit the caps lock key when I mean control.
I had lots of computer before my Amiga 3000. A C-64, C-128, and even an A500. But the Amiga 3000 was what I consider to be my real workstation computer.
I had one of the first A3000's too. With the kickstart on the HD. I never got around to buying a proper ROM kickstart for it. Didn't see the need.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Wow, defensive much? I'm not even talking about the ribbon. I'm talking about various GUI changes between Windows 7 and Windows 10, with some pathetic stops along the way at 8 and 8.1.
Offensive much? I'm talking about Microsoft GUI philosophy in general. Frankly I don't give a shit about MS. I'm not defending them, just going on an offence against the "change for change sake" meme in the name of common sense.
Until the next update, sure. You can only trust Microsoft to be bastards.
Actually enterprises trust Microsoft to be enterprise partners. This is why the most recent Windows 10 enterprise edition is almost 2 years old and won't change for another 3 years. These are companies that have assessed Windows 10 and found them suitable for use with confidential and secret documents.
Of course they could make you a special Windows 10 Tinfoilhat edition.
They run on the same machines, and on most of them, wake from sleep works fine these days — so long as you configure Linux to lie and tell the PC that it is Windows, because the PCs are often configured to work improperly if you tell them anything else — because Microsoft wrote the tools used to create the power saving information. This is in fact more evidence of Microsoft malfeasance.
So... I see words like "most" and "if you configure it it lie" and "configured improperly" ... I was going to make some point about why the common person doesn't use Linux, but thanks you did it for me. People in general don't give a shit why it doesn't work. This is why I don't run Ubuntu on my 9 month old laptop. I tried it, it didn't work, I spent 15min Googling the problem, and then did a factory reset. Linux can stay on my servers, it should work out of the box before it gets used on a desktop.
Pulseaudio was shit for years. Total abject shit. Network manager was also shit for years, and it totally bypasses the functionality built into the OS, which meant that it compromised your ability to use command-line tools, which means it's still shit. Wayland was resisted until the devs knuckled under and agreed to implement some kind of networking, which is to say that it was accepted when it was not shit. And systemd is still shit, written by the same guy who failed at pulseaudio for years.
So what you're saying is "was" "was" "was" and yet forums and message boards are full of worthless comments against these tools which provided core functionality. Your post right now demonstrates the problem.
Let me paraphrase what you just wrote:
Windows bad because MS bad!
Linux good. It has bugs. You just need to hack the gibson with great skills to get it working, and when you can't, jump online where you'll be greeted with a cesspool of hateful shit because you want your system to be functional but some grumpy neckbeard thinks that you're not being Unix enough to use Unix.
Yeah 2017, the year of Linux on the desktop.
Offensive much? I'm talking about Microsoft GUI philosophy in general.
Microsoft philosophy in general is fuck you, and fuck everyone else too.
So... I see words like "most" and "if you configure it it lie" and "configured improperly" ...
They all apply to Windows just as well, hypocrite.
Let me paraphrase what you just wrote:
Windows bad because MS bad!
Well, you figured that part out anyway. Maybe someday you'll get it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Lucky you. Each time I update to anew release of Windows 10 I encounter a number of things that don't work, and a number of things that work differently.
Generally XP, Vista, and 7 remained consistent in functionality throughout their lifespans. A few hiccups with an update here and there (Such as the 100% CPU infinite loop for Windows Updates in Vista and 7, though they did fix it in 7.)
The Surface Pro 4 is a nice prototype. It is a fancy piece of experimental technology. Works well enough to use in a day to day environment, and the concept is a welcome improvement. However the Surface Pro is a prototype of a future technology and OS implementation.
I'm glad your Surface Pro works well for you. Mine does also a majority of the time. I did purchase my Surface Pro 4 after Microsoft resolved the issue with the Task bar and start menu crashing. My laptop did suffer that failure. Considering Microsoft's move away from easy to remember applications (mspaint.exe), to complicated names in difficult to find locations which are not in the$PATH (Paint 3D), the Taskbar and Start Menu are going to be ever more crucial to daily usage of the desktop OS.
This isn't Bill Gates Microsoft anymore.
Actually, I'm going to dial down the enthusiasm I've had in these posts and kind of agree with you. I installed the latest update to windows 10 and now my external BR drive won't work.
So yeah. I see your point now.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.
Nice fiction. This decision was made by greased palms, not by users.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Strange thing is that Linux is so bad that Windows 10 adds support for running Linux binaries.
So instead of moving away from Linux aren't they just adding Windows 10 in parallel?
Cornel / binbash is sick with cancer. Help him to collect money for his next course of cancer treatment.