I wonder if they will take what they learn and try to use it to improve Windows. You'd have to be completely blind not to see that Windows is seriously lacking in the server OS arena, but it wouldn't cost MS all that much to make at least a nice improvement. Maybe Windows will finally get a decent console shell and a set of utilities, just to name two severely missed features.
Some of us poor bastards out here actually have to program and administer MS OS's for work, and it sure would be nice to see some common features added. I don't give a rats ass what they say about Linux. Just throw me a friggin' bone here!
I can understand the interest in old things. I think it would be very interesting to learn some old obscure language and then seek out others to talk to. But morse code? It seems like it's far too simple and inefficient (each letter takes several clicks) to be interesting to very many people. Maybe it's because I'm a computer nerd and serial encoding is like second nature to me? It just sounds really boring.
It's being poised as the Windows scripting solution
Great, except that isn't what it is by any stretch of the imagination.
Bash is the right tool? That's a joke. How would I have done my little XML-to-PGSQL script in bash???
I have no idea. I didn't suggest that Bash was the right tool for your particular problem, only that it probably would do just fine to solve my problem, and that c# is almost certainly overkill.
Just because c# is a good choice for your problem doesn't mean it isn't flaming overkill for mine. And with the pile of support libraries I have available to help with c++ and c# coding, there really wouldn't be much of a difference between the two for my problem. The amount of work and the number of steps involved to get from here to installed are *exactly* the same between c# and c++.
I never even hinted that C# was a replacement for any language
You seem to think that c# is at the same level as java script. The important difference here is that c# is compiled. Yes, that is a big difference. Not only do I not want to bother with a compiler for this type of program, but I'd like some administrator to be able to make changes to it without having to get involved in CVS repositories and c# compilers and such. They don't do that stuff and they aren't gonna start just because I shove c# down their throats. It's less work for me *and* them if I use a script language for my particular problem.
Have you ever sat down to solve a fairly simple problem like... hmm... rename all the files in a directory based on some simple criteria? Far too complex for a glob string to handle, but well within the realm of simple branching stuff. The sort of thing you'd just write a bash script to do with the help of find and sed or something like that. On Windows, you're almost forced to break out the big fat.NET hammer to do that. That's a crock of shit. All you need is a decent shell language and some standard tools and the job takes 20 minutes. Good luck on a standard Windows box. On a standard unix box it's not even a discussion. It's done before anyone even knew it needed a solution. That's what I call ease of use for a developer.
Of course. I didn't say it won't do what I need to do (it will), I said it would be entirely the wrong tool for what I need to do. Bash would be the right tool. Python or perl wouldn't be too bad. C# would be flaming overkill.
Anyone who compares using C# to C++ for scripting purposes... Ridiculous.
Why is that? They share a pretty common syntax (which is quite difficult to learn as languages go). Both are compiled (if you have to run a compiler on your code, it's compiled; don't give me some BS about virtual machines or jit compiling or whatever).
Microsoft knows ease of use from the programmer's point of view better than anyone
You're joking... right? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time.
If that were true, they'd provide compilers and development libraries with Windows. They'd provide the tools that developers use to get their work done. The little they do provide is extra cost (*a lot* extra), and they provide very little.
...I am really getting to like.NET...
I actually like.NET a fair amount myself, but if you think.NET is a replacement for all the languages that exist out there, you really need to think again.
Windows *can* do pretty much anything Linux can do. That isn't the question. The question is, how much extra software do you need to install and how much non-standard knowledge do you need to keep handy to do it? When you compare what Linux can do *out of the box* to what Windows can do *out of the box*, Windows comes up sadly (really really sadly) lacking.
I have a problem like this to solve in a few days myself. The problem, how do we ftp a file from a business partner and hand it off to a program I wrote that will basically import the data into our database.
Under Linux it would be... well, not worth discussing. I'd start with a shell script and wget and maybe throw in a smattering of grep and sed, something like that, and be done with it in a few minutes.
Under Windows, there is a suggestion floating around to use c#. c#!!! To do a simple script. We might just as well use c++. It's an amazingly crazy notion, but it's brought about by the fact that a nice set of tools that would make this sort of thing easy aren't available on Windows without installing a bunch of extra packages, which someone has to remember and do again when the machine gets an upgrade. The extra work and hassle quickly becomes prohibitive.
So, possible doesn't cut it. People point to Window's ease of use from the point clicky point of view. When will we start demanding ease of use from the programmer's point of view?
There are several theories floating around, but the the exact location is still up in the air. That said, the situation should not be taken too lightly, as the cost of recovery appears to be balooning. If the wrong people get wind of this, any hope of safe recovery could be blown right out the window.
Slashdot Mirror
Yep... I've heard there is nothing sexier than a man in his underwear illuminated only by the green glow of the monitor...
I wonder if they will take what they learn and try to use it to improve Windows. You'd have to be completely blind not to see that Windows is seriously lacking in the server OS arena, but it wouldn't cost MS all that much to make at least a nice improvement. Maybe Windows will finally get a decent console shell and a set of utilities, just to name two severely missed features.
Some of us poor bastards out here actually have to program and administer MS OS's for work, and it sure would be nice to see some common features added. I don't give a rats ass what they say about Linux. Just throw me a friggin' bone here!
That is so not insightful... Goofy moderators.
There's a joke to be made here about nudity and cats... or guys with cats... or something. But I'll leave it alone.
True about the cat though. Nudity soon earns you trouble.
No, more power *from* them.
I can understand the interest in old things. I think it would be very interesting to learn some old obscure language and then seek out others to talk to. But morse code? It seems like it's far too simple and inefficient (each letter takes several clicks) to be interesting to very many people. Maybe it's because I'm a computer nerd and serial encoding is like second nature to me? It just sounds really boring.
Yeah, but nobody would be able to talk about it ever again without risking a visit from the scientology lawyers.
A view? Only on the way in.
Just because c# is a good choice for your problem doesn't mean it isn't flaming overkill for mine. And with the pile of support libraries I have available to help with c++ and c# coding, there really wouldn't be much of a difference between the two for my problem. The amount of work and the number of steps involved to get from here to installed are *exactly* the same between c# and c++.
You seem to think that c# is at the same level as java script. The important difference here is that c# is compiled. Yes, that is a big difference. Not only do I not want to bother with a compiler for this type of program, but I'd like some administrator to be able to make changes to it without having to get involved in CVS repositories and c# compilers and such. They don't do that stuff and they aren't gonna start just because I shove c# down their throats. It's less work for me *and* them if I use a script language for my particular problem.Have you ever sat down to solve a fairly simple problem like... hmm... rename all the files in a directory based on some simple criteria? Far too complex for a glob string to handle, but well within the realm of simple branching stuff. The sort of thing you'd just write a bash script to do with the help of find and sed or something like that. On Windows, you're almost forced to break out the big fat .NET hammer to do that. That's a crock of shit. All you need is a decent shell language and some standard tools and the job takes 20 minutes. Good luck on a standard Windows box. On a standard unix box it's not even a discussion. It's done before anyone even knew it needed a solution. That's what I call ease of use for a developer.
If that were true, they'd provide compilers and development libraries with Windows. They'd provide the tools that developers use to get their work done. The little they do provide is extra cost (*a lot* extra), and they provide very little.
I actually likeWindows *can* do pretty much anything Linux can do. That isn't the question. The question is, how much extra software do you need to install and how much non-standard knowledge do you need to keep handy to do it? When you compare what Linux can do *out of the box* to what Windows can do *out of the box*, Windows comes up sadly (really really sadly) lacking.
I have a problem like this to solve in a few days myself. The problem, how do we ftp a file from a business partner and hand it off to a program I wrote that will basically import the data into our database.
Under Linux it would be... well, not worth discussing. I'd start with a shell script and wget and maybe throw in a smattering of grep and sed, something like that, and be done with it in a few minutes.
Under Windows, there is a suggestion floating around to use c#. c#!!! To do a simple script. We might just as well use c++. It's an amazingly crazy notion, but it's brought about by the fact that a nice set of tools that would make this sort of thing easy aren't available on Windows without installing a bunch of extra packages, which someone has to remember and do again when the machine gets an upgrade. The extra work and hassle quickly becomes prohibitive.
So, possible doesn't cut it. People point to Window's ease of use from the point clicky point of view. When will we start demanding ease of use from the programmer's point of view?
>> pr0n is copyrighted too
I wouldn't know. I never see the copyright. I only download pr0n for the articles.
> they have a robot control problem
Yes, and it's only on the rise.
It's a long shot but you may be able to start a new pop culture based holy (hole'ly?) on rising deflation.
Nothing will change. The new masters are the same as the old ones; a bunch of gas bags.
There are several theories floating around, but the the exact location is still up in the air. That said, the situation should not be taken too lightly, as the cost of recovery appears to be balooning. If the wrong people get wind of this, any hope of safe recovery could be blown right out the window.
That costs more money and no one wanted to float the cash.
Not 'no brain'... just a bit light-headed.
They're just trying to get a rise out of us.
I have trouble respecting any robot overlord with an artificially high-pitched voice.
Yep. Things should really start taking off any day now.
Your theory is gonna go over like a lead zeppelin.
My baby's got a little gas...
Yeah but I'd like to see the vagina that thing popped out of. Wait... No, I hope I never see the vagina that thing popped out of.
Stop trying to inflate your karma with this kind of humor.