Second that. I even think it's common between people "befuddled" by Windows 8, GNOME 3 haters, and people who loudly complain every time Facebook changes its layout. Oh noes, they've changed everything!
I had to use Windows 8 for a couple of days recently, on a non-touch PC at that, and I just don't see what the fuss is all about. The Metro home screen is replaces the Start menu, and it's better. Same story with ribbons earlier: people think 3-level menus were all she wrote in desktop UI? Really?
I guess for some it's a big shock to find themselves in a full-screen Metro application with no visual clues how to get out of it. I learned my way around the Windows key long ago, so I was up and running in no time. Same with GNOME 3. I guess many people have been using mouse exclusively for navigation, which was too clunky for me anyway even with the 1990s-vintage desktop environments. With touch, you get gestures, which are of course just impossible to figure out nevermind that you bought yourself a touch-oriented device.
I mean, look at Nokia now, versus the Nokia before that M$ mole took over.
Let's follow your advice and actually look at it. Nokia was in decline, now its stock is rising. Nokia hadn't had a competitive device in the smartphone segment in a while. Now it's got several and announces yet more.
Pray tell, what nosedive are you talking about?
For how many quarters already Nokia has posted a loss?
This question sounds stupid, considering the magnitude of problems Nokia got themselves into over many years.
Nokia could improve Symbian (big costs to improve the system itself, small costs in changing mindsharing) OR improve Meego (not so big costs improving the system, bigger costs creating another software ecosystem and gaining mindshre).
But no! Let's try another complete new thing. something that don't have mindshare, don't have software ecosystem and it's not even ready yet!
Windows Phone 7.5 was basically ready by the time they put out first phones with it. MeeGo... don't get me started, I worked on it. Nokia has Microsoft's shoulder now to drive the software ecosystem; alone, it did not stand a chance. The competencies simply weren't there in sufficient strength, and it would take a lot of time and pain to build them. Moreover, there was a lot of "anti-competency" in the company, all the dead weight accrued during the Symbian years.
And if they can't fix the company, holding onto that ownership title will help them how?
It can be the case of somebody finally taking a hard look on things and saying: "WTF are we still doing this when we could get 170 million now and save on upkeep costs in the long run". Makes sense when a corporation optimizes its finances. It evidently made sense to Kone, who are not in any kind of trouble.
... for all the anti-Microsoft zealots to vent their fantasies about the evil corporate world and spread hearsay.
Finnish MTV3 news yesterday shown the waterfront of big corporate headquarters on Keilaniemi and said that of those, only Neste Oil still owns its building. But who cares, right, this is so symbolic!
I wonder how the other recent non-story did not make it before it was debunked: Nokia posted a job opening searching for a Linux programmer. This got Android fans to jump to a conclusion that Nokia is developing an Android phone. This "news" then got picked up by some technology websites, retold in more or less certain terms depending on how desperate the website is for click revenue. Does this indicate that some Android users are insecure about the hardware choice for their platform and think Nokia might make a better phone?
Nokia is selling featurephones like hotcakes, they just don't run that ugly OS called Symbian. No Linux either, but who says that everything under the sun should run Linux?
Just because you don't see these phones sold on the perennially screwed U.S. market does not give you an excuse to repeat misinformation.
You mean the company that single handedly set the web back at least five years and has been criminally convicted for anti competitive behavior and the company that is being run into the ground by the 8th largest shareholder of the previously mentioned company?
You got modded up for spreading false information, so here goes: Elop is not the 8th largest shareholder of Microsoft.
So, they are in the sad company of their neighbors in Keilaniemi, like Kone and Fortum, who have also sold their headquarters to real estate conglomerates years ago and stayed on as tenants. Of those, only Neste Oil still owns their HQ.
If I'd run a Tor exit node, it wouldn't be to anonymize paedophiles, but to help people in oppressive countries avoid persecution and censorship. So can one define a selective exit policy only allowing, for example, IP addresses of mass media websites known to be blocked in China?
You can develop for all of those platforms with the toolkit that is native to Jolla, Qt.
Can you? A Qt port for Android, Necessitas, is a non-mainstream effort and it's currently in alpha. A Qt port to WinRT has been investigated, lack of OpenGL support seen as a major obstacle. Chrome and Firefox... good luck merging that with the browser environment.
From the looks of it, PhoneGap (AKA Apache Cordova) has better promise at the moment, but it's a rather cumbersome programming environment, and you are often out of luck if you need third-party plugins depending on what platforms you want to target.
Whether it is closed or open source is totally irrelevant for probably >99% of the buyers. Most buyers don't even know whether it's open or closed source, and if they do, they don't care. They want a nice phone, one that works, and that has lots of apps available.
So those buyers will likely choose something running iOS, Android, or Windows Phone?
It will not run many, vast majority depends on libc and the like.
Your argument was about it running the software, nowhere was a dependency requirement mentioned.
Right, let's try to muddle the issue with inane definition games. Of course most software requires its dynamic libraries since 1990s, smartass.
Actually, libc from either Fedora or Debian would work on the pristine kernel if dropped in from the binary package. So yes, many binaries will run unchanged when their dependencies are present in the system.
1. If dependencies are allowed, Android kernel can surely run all the software, by a simple wrapper around it to translate.
Oh, we're talking about a "simple" wrapper now. Does such a wrapper exist?
2. What makes Fedora and Denial Linux?
Near total compatibility with the upstream Linux kernel, of course. But I'm giving up on trying to make you acknowledge this, you don't seem to be in for factual discussion.
It will run many, and those packages that won't run as is, will run after compiling them on a bootstrapped and dependency-provisioned environment.
With Android kernel, it's going to be trickier: there are behavioral changes in the kernel, and I bet Google dropped some options important in other usages, because who cares about those.
And where sir do the pilots that drop the bombs go after they finish work for the day?
The crucial fact to establish is where they are when they are in combat. The pilots are up there alone, in clearly marked, distinctive military aircraft, and they can be shot down without any civilian casualties. The terrorists shoot mortars from the vicinity of schools and hospitals.
Jews were only in a majority in that territory after mass coerced immigration from Europe. Before that, they were a vanishingly small minority.
So? You got to listen about Serb propaganda about Kosovo: how it was the sacred home land of Serbs, and then Albanians were encouraged to settle by Turks and outbred the other inhabitants.
There is no divinely ordained right for any people to live in any particular territory. There is historical precedent, there are facts on the ground, there are various legal and conventional considerations. All of this can be used by one or other side to assert their ownership of the land. Palestine and Israel came about as a British power transfer plan, there was nobody saying that Jews cannot immigrate (or at least enforcing it efficiently), and the Arabs attacked Israel basically the next day after the big chap in the pith helmet went home. So there goes.
The planned attack is not because of rocket attacks, it is because there is an election coming up in Israel in about a month. Nothing improves the chances of an incumbent to be reelected as much as a fresh war to show he is tough on the "terrorists."
Sure, what's a thousand rockets launched in the space of a week, some getting as far as Tel Aviv which was not a target since the Gulf War. It's so easy to dismiss from the comfort of your arm chair in a safe and prosperous country, where you don't need to run for shelter when a siren sounds several times at any hour of the day. Asshole.
On the other hand, CE and NT are very, very different at higher levels. Although both of them theoretically implement the Win32 API, you'll probably do better porting an app targeting Linux to OpenBSD, or possibly even something more exotic. Yes, they both use POSIX (the same way NT and CE both use Win32) but there's a ton of difference in the details. It may help that NT is close to a superset of CE (porting the reverse direction would be harder) but there's still going to be a fair bit of re-writing involved.
I used to develop a codebase that worked on both Windows Mobile and the desktop. If you targeted the common subset of Win32, MFC, or ATL/WTL, didn't assume your file paths start with "C:" (which is a bad assumption anyway), and optionalized the platform-exclusive stuff, it was quite OK. There were some annoying quirks on CE, for example, no two DLLs in your process could have the same file name. Maybe the right way was to start on CE or both, then making it work everywhere wasn't that difficult.
The days of Nokia having a meme associated with their quality of build are gone with their factories to china in part of Elops [continuing] cost cutting exercise.
Wat? Give me the N9/Lumia build over the plastic penny-pinching crap of the old N series, every time. The cost cutting at Nokia did not touch as many really important things as bitter Symbian and Linux fanbois would like to believe. As they said at Wired, the brick is back.
2012 is already the year of Linux on the desktop. And the desktop is in your pocket.
Sorry, but no and no.
Android is not Linux. It's a convenience fork of the Linux kernel and a few userland libraries, which did a lot to divert Linux development on mobile, because, yeah, Google is special and if it decides to fork a community-run project to suit its corporate needs, everybody should just follow. Not.
Android is not desktop. I can't use it to do serious work, or even write a good email. I use real desktop Linux for that. Sure, I could spend time to purchase a wireless keyboard and fiddle with that and plugging in a decent sized monitor every time I need it (good luck with the resolution, Android stock resolutions for apps are rather limited), but why the heck?
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Second that. I even think it's common between people "befuddled" by Windows 8, GNOME 3 haters, and people who loudly complain every time Facebook changes its layout. Oh noes, they've changed everything!
I had to use Windows 8 for a couple of days recently, on a non-touch PC at that, and I just don't see what the fuss is all about. The Metro home screen is replaces the Start menu, and it's better. Same story with ribbons earlier: people think 3-level menus were all she wrote in desktop UI? Really?
I guess for some it's a big shock to find themselves in a full-screen Metro application with no visual clues how to get out of it. I learned my way around the Windows key long ago, so I was up and running in no time. Same with GNOME 3. I guess many people have been using mouse exclusively for navigation, which was too clunky for me anyway even with the 1990s-vintage desktop environments. With touch, you get gestures, which are of course just impossible to figure out nevermind that you bought yourself a touch-oriented device.
I mean, look at Nokia now, versus the Nokia before that M$ mole took over.
Let's follow your advice and actually look at it.
Nokia was in decline, now its stock is rising.
Nokia hadn't had a competitive device in the smartphone segment in a while. Now it's got several and announces yet more.
Pray tell, what nosedive are you talking about?
For how many quarters already Nokia has posted a loss?
This question sounds stupid, considering the magnitude of problems Nokia got themselves into over many years.
I'm trying every time this comes up, but it's a whack-a-mole (pun intended).
Nokia could improve Symbian (big costs to improve the system itself, small costs in changing mindsharing) OR improve Meego (not so big costs improving the system, bigger costs creating another software ecosystem and gaining mindshre).
But no! Let's try another complete new thing. something that don't have mindshare, don't have software ecosystem and it's not even ready yet!
Windows Phone 7.5 was basically ready by the time they put out first phones with it. MeeGo... don't get me started, I worked on it. Nokia has Microsoft's shoulder now to drive the software ecosystem; alone, it did not stand a chance. The competencies simply weren't there in sufficient strength, and it would take a lot of time and pain to build them. Moreover, there was a lot of "anti-competency" in the company, all the dead weight accrued during the Symbian years.
And if they can't fix the company, holding onto that ownership title will help them how?
It can be the case of somebody finally taking a hard look on things and saying: "WTF are we still doing this when we could get 170 million now and save on upkeep costs in the long run". Makes sense when a corporation optimizes its finances. It evidently made sense to Kone, who are not in any kind of trouble.
... for all the anti-Microsoft zealots to vent their fantasies about the evil corporate world and spread hearsay.
Finnish MTV3 news yesterday shown the waterfront of big corporate headquarters on Keilaniemi and said that of those, only Neste Oil still owns its building. But who cares, right, this is so symbolic!
I wonder how the other recent non-story did not make it before it was debunked: Nokia posted a job opening searching for a Linux programmer. This got Android fans to jump to a conclusion that Nokia is developing an Android phone. This "news" then got picked up by some technology websites, retold in more or less certain terms depending on how desperate the website is for click revenue. Does this indicate that some Android users are insecure about the hardware choice for their platform and think Nokia might make a better phone?
Nokia is selling featurephones like hotcakes, they just don't run that ugly OS called Symbian. No Linux either, but who says that everything under the sun should run Linux?
Just because you don't see these phones sold on the perennially screwed U.S. market does not give you an excuse to repeat misinformation.
You mean the company that single handedly set the web back at least five years and has been criminally convicted for anti competitive behavior and the company that is being run into the ground by the 8th largest shareholder of the previously mentioned company?
You got modded up for spreading false information, so here goes: Elop is not the 8th largest shareholder of Microsoft.
So, they are in the sad company of their neighbors in Keilaniemi, like Kone and Fortum, who have also sold their headquarters to real estate conglomerates years ago and stayed on as tenants. Of those, only Neste Oil still owns their HQ.
Do you know how we can write to log files in functional languages?
By using a monad such as Haskell's IO.
The trouble is, you have to wrap with it any parts of the program that need logging.
If I'd run a Tor exit node, it wouldn't be to anonymize paedophiles, but to help people in oppressive countries avoid persecution and censorship. So can one define a selective exit policy only allowing, for example, IP addresses of mass media websites known to be blocked in China?
You can develop for all of those platforms with the toolkit that is native to Jolla, Qt.
Can you? A Qt port for Android, Necessitas, is a non-mainstream effort and it's currently in alpha. A Qt port to WinRT has been investigated, lack of OpenGL support seen as a major obstacle. Chrome and Firefox... good luck merging that with the browser environment.
From the looks of it, PhoneGap (AKA Apache Cordova) has better promise at the moment, but it's a rather cumbersome programming environment, and you are often out of luck if you need third-party plugins depending on what platforms you want to target.
Whether it is closed or open source is totally irrelevant for probably >99% of the buyers. Most buyers don't even know whether it's open or closed source, and if they do, they don't care. They want a nice phone, one that works, and that has lots of apps available.
So those buyers will likely choose something running iOS, Android, or Windows Phone?
It will not run many, vast majority depends on libc and the like.
Your argument was about it running the software, nowhere was a dependency requirement mentioned.
Right, let's try to muddle the issue with inane definition games. Of course most software requires its dynamic libraries since 1990s, smartass.
Actually, libc from either Fedora or Debian would work on the pristine kernel if dropped in from the binary package. So yes, many binaries will run unchanged when their dependencies are present in the system.
1. If dependencies are allowed, Android kernel can surely run all the software, by a simple wrapper around it to translate.
Oh, we're talking about a "simple" wrapper now. Does such a wrapper exist?
2. What makes Fedora and Denial Linux?
Near total compatibility with the upstream Linux kernel, of course. But I'm giving up on trying to make you acknowledge this, you don't seem to be in for factual discussion.
Something is Linux if it is, you know, Linux.
Sorry, circular definitions somehow fail to fascinate me.
It will run many, and those packages that won't run as is, will run after compiling them on a bootstrapped and dependency-provisioned environment.
With Android kernel, it's going to be trickier: there are behavioral changes in the kernel, and I bet Google dropped some options important in other usages, because who cares about those.
And where sir do the pilots that drop the bombs go after they finish work for the day?
The crucial fact to establish is where they are when they are in combat.
The pilots are up there alone, in clearly marked, distinctive military aircraft, and they can be shot down without any civilian casualties.
The terrorists shoot mortars from the vicinity of schools and hospitals.
Jews were only in a majority in that territory after mass coerced immigration from Europe. Before that, they were a vanishingly small minority.
So? You got to listen about Serb propaganda about Kosovo: how it was the sacred home land of Serbs, and then Albanians were encouraged to settle by Turks and outbred the other inhabitants.
There is no divinely ordained right for any people to live in any particular territory. There is historical precedent, there are facts on the ground, there are various legal and conventional considerations. All of this can be used by one or other side to assert their ownership of the land. Palestine and Israel came about as a British power transfer plan, there was nobody saying that Jews cannot immigrate (or at least enforcing it efficiently), and the Arabs attacked Israel basically the next day after the big chap in the pith helmet went home. So there goes.
The planned attack is not because of rocket attacks, it is because there is an election coming up in Israel in about a month. Nothing improves the chances of an incumbent to be reelected as much as a fresh war to show he is tough on the "terrorists."
Sure, what's a thousand rockets launched in the space of a week, some getting as far as Tel Aviv which was not a target since the Gulf War. It's so easy to dismiss from the comfort of your arm chair in a safe and prosperous country, where you don't need to run for shelter when a siren sounds several times at any hour of the day. Asshole.
There is no "linux userland" in the real world
Oh obscurant Android fan, please look here or here. Then tell me what percentage of that can run on Android.
On the other hand, CE and NT are very, very different at higher levels. Although both of them theoretically implement the Win32 API, you'll probably do better porting an app targeting Linux to OpenBSD, or possibly even something more exotic. Yes, they both use POSIX (the same way NT and CE both use Win32) but there's a ton of difference in the details. It may help that NT is close to a superset of CE (porting the reverse direction would be harder) but there's still going to be a fair bit of re-writing involved.
I used to develop a codebase that worked on both Windows Mobile and the desktop. If you targeted the common subset of Win32, MFC, or ATL/WTL, didn't assume your file paths start with "C:" (which is a bad assumption anyway), and optionalized the platform-exclusive stuff, it was quite OK. There were some annoying quirks on CE, for example, no two DLLs in your process could have the same file name. Maybe the right way was to start on CE or both, then making it work everywhere wasn't that difficult.
Tell me when I will be forced to use Android for all my computing needs or see Android Police kicking down my door. You fanbois are so full of it.
The days of Nokia having a meme associated with their quality of build are gone with their factories to china in part of Elops [continuing] cost cutting exercise.
Wat? Give me the N9/Lumia build over the plastic penny-pinching crap of the old N series, every time.
The cost cutting at Nokia did not touch as many really important things as bitter Symbian and Linux fanbois would like to believe.
As they said at Wired, the brick is back.
Well, by all means don't buy LG next time.
Too bad Google sourced Nexus 4 from LG, they will get burned.
2012 is already the year of Linux on the desktop. And the desktop is in your pocket.
Sorry, but no and no.
Android is not Linux. It's a convenience fork of the Linux kernel and a few userland libraries, which did a lot to divert Linux development on mobile, because, yeah, Google is special and if it decides to fork a community-run project to suit its corporate needs, everybody should just follow. Not.
Android is not desktop. I can't use it to do serious work, or even write a good email. I use real desktop Linux for that. Sure, I could spend time to purchase a wireless keyboard and fiddle with that and plugging in a decent sized monitor every time I need it (good luck with the resolution, Android stock resolutions for apps are rather limited), but why the heck?