there is no company ever that has been run on openness and transparency. anything that is "open and transparent" is inconsequential and shallow
secrets and politics is absolutely essential to running a company. any hierarchical organization of humans. it is the only way to get anything done. a social structure that is formless and free is a confusing mess of overlapping chatter. the natural inclination is to squelch most of it. to get some fucking work done: "only let me know what i need to know so i can focus"
sure, within a clique or level of management there might be a publicly stated policy of openness and transparency: amongst a few employees of equal rank and interest. even then, secrets and politics amongst the equals continues while empty lipservice is paid to the policy. welcome to the humanity
openness and transparency does have a place: in communicating with clients and customers. openness and transparency applies to an attitude towards external communications, and it is a positive one when adhered to as much as possible. meanwhile internal communications is a series of walls and shifting allegiances. it has to be. nothing can get done when no one can focus
to the extent that what you said is not true, is to the same extent the number of people with enough heart and enough backbone to believe and do otherwise
so grow a fucking backbone
the world is improving. progress is real. slowed down and held back not by those with malicious intent- those assholes always exist, but by people like you. the most amazing thing to me is people like you. people who willingly and openly bend over and accept their malice as your reality. fucking pathetic, weak, contemptible worms
all organizations have secrets. some of those secrets are necessary. divulging them of course is damaging to the company. it's a betrayal, a backstab. for any number of motivations: greed, revenge, etc
meanwhile, openness and transparency are nice attitudes to have towards your clients and customers, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the internal workings of a corporation. this is plainly obvious to anyone in a professional organization. openness and transparency just doesn't apply in the halls of corporate hq. the idea is laughable
so for someone to bloviate about openness and transparency in regards to internal corporate workings in the baldly incoherent way as the passage you cited
1. shows them to have a dangerously facile idea of what openness and transparency really means, or
2. shows them to openly wield the concepts in a knowingly orwellian manner
either way, it shows important people at facebook with a dangerously immature or malicious understanding of concepts that, when applied to the kind of data they siphon up about millions of people, is frightening
yeah, we all know the cynical line "if you don't pay for it, you are the product" and it's a funny laugh, but little utterances like the passage you highlighted suddenly makes it so stark, like a chill down the spine, about what a company like facebook is doing in society, doing to society
if zuckberberg had said "we had secrets, you let them out, fuck you" then i can respect this man as a capable corporate stooge. but the disingenuous way in which he applies the concepts of openness and transparency to a simple case of corporate backstabbing makes me frightened about the kind of power this company holds and the way they think about the power
if he took something private and made it public, i might agree with you
if the information was already available publicly, the intern did nothing wrong at all. and rather than punishing a lowly intern, facebook should be apologizing to its users, and this intern deserves a reward for showing how facebook fucked up. he is doing a service to us, no matter how fucked up facebook's attitude is to a problem of it's own fucking creation
All this guy did was write an app that made the information easier for an average person to see. He didn't need to write an exploit, the information was given to everyone who asked, as a feature.
and...
“This mapping tool scraped Facebook data in a way that violated our terms, and those terms exist to protect people’s privacy and safety”
the point isn't the kid's behavior, the point is his employer's bad behavior
"well the guy was smoking pot when he was aiding the stranded motorist, so the police had to kill him"
that's not an analogy of the same magnitude, but it's an analogy of the same failure of logic: that some minor faux pas, even when committed while doing society a benefit, justifies authority overreacting and committing a far worse error
1. employee or white hat or grey hat comes to you with an exploit. you reward him for the discovery, you squash the exploit. the media paints you in a good light. more white hats and employees are eager to come forward with exploits they find. your userbase is happy with the quick resolution, transparency, and eagerness to protect
2. employee or white hate or grey hat comes to you with an exploit. you fire him, sue him, ignore him, censor him. maybe you don't squash the exploit, you think you can just hide it. of course, the media gets wind anyways and paints you as a moron who thinks you can sweep it under the rug or an idiot in denial for your "no comment" when asked about the exploit. white hats and employees are discouraged and hide exploits or, turn into grey hats and black hats and sell your exploit underground or use them for nefarious purposes themselves. you don't find about it until much later as no one wants to talk to you after the reception you've demonstrated. you are hacked, your userbase grows angry and shrinks, your third quarter profit takes a hit, the guys in the corner office call you in and ask you to account for the problems
those are choices middle management morons. proceed accordingly
oh, the guy wrote an app instead of coming to you immediately?
gee, how horrible
hide your blind shortsighted anger, paint on a fake smile, and give him a reward
because that's what is in your best interests you fucking pinhead! you WANT these guys to come to you, so you NEVER show any negativity to anyone who has shown how YOU have failed by discovering the exploit. the original shame, the original failure is YOUR EXPLOIT
it's not a parent-child situation and the kid crashed the family SUV. it's about you failing to provide airtight security with your product and you showing the world that you are welcoming to all friends and foes who would only come to you and tell you what you did wrong to allow the exploit. understand? you failed first, by allowing the exploit to exist
oh, all complicated software has exploits? true. so you're really eager to plug those holes any way you can, right? you're really glad someone found one for you, right? prove it, by rewarding those who find the holes
either the exploits go underground when you storm around like a prima donna when someone finds a hole, or you show how eager you are in due modesty that anyone come forward with an exploit for you to squash, with thanks and kudos
now figure the fuck out what is best for you and your company's bottom line, and don't be such a mediocre empty suit
and sad that russians are living today under the same cult of personality and neoimperialist ultranationalist policy that, wielded against them, their grandparents fought and died for. russia has looked into its history and decided to become an old enemy. the rest of the world looks on in disgust. pathetic
but it wasn't hitler (although it is a sad irony that russia is copying the nazi policy towards it neighbors, while accusing them of being nazis) they copied
russian propaganda is basically alex jones herp derp conspiracy theorizing. it's same kind of content. being a paranoid schizophrenic in today's world means you are going to have a miserable institutionalized life, or you will be chief writer of a large media organization
china can pull the same shit with "local" freedom fighters and "concerns" about the treatment of han minorities. no need for direct war
i for one welcome irkutsk, sakah republic (yakutia), tuva, etc.: new siberian neighbors to mongolia, all puppets of china
just like abkhazia and south ossetia was ripped from georgia, and donetsk and crimea from ukraine. china is growing in military and economic power, russia is shrinking
choke on the irony, russian nationalist thugs
i mean: fuck chinese imperialist thuggery too. they shouldn't be stealing islands from vietnam and the philippines and mountains from india
but if china picks on russia?
i ain't doing nothing but laughing my ass off
have at them china, the world supports you. we ain't helping that russian mafia goon for shit. carve those assholes up
no. i don't get tired of posting this. fuck russia, the mafia thug
china goes nuts stealing flyspeck islands from philippines and cold mountains from india, based on trumped up lies
it won't escape han imperialist attention that russia stole thousands of square kilometers of fertile land rich in resources from them only a 150 years ago. land that was actually part of china, not a trumped up lie
china continues to grow in economy and military. russia continues to shrink
china is 1.3 billion. russia 130 million
china might grow "concerned" about the treatment of their han ethnic minorities in russian lands at the hands of corrupt local russians. and send "humanitarian aid". no need for direct war, "local" freedom fighters can do the fighting
the playbook is all there, written by moscow
remember me, when this actually happens
Besides, Georgians had it coming since 1991
yes georgia derserve to be split in two because they insulted moscow. fuck off you propagandized nationalist douchebag
russia is nothing more than an insecure mafia goon. their pride is hurt so they have to thug on their small neighbors. impenetrable walls of lies. immature evil bullshit
but this pisses off everyone. russia has zero friends left in the world
greece could have stuck a middle finger at the eu and gone into the hands of russia. but even greece is like "i'd rather be under germany's thumb than russia's"
and it's not like russia has the economic clout to peel greece off from the eu
feeble russia will continue to decay, economically and militarily
then china will steal siberia from them, with no declaration of war, using the exact same bullshit tactics they are pulling georgia and ukraine now. "local" freedom fighters forming "independent" countries. outer manchuria
and the whole world won't give a flying fuck. i for one will clap and laugh
it will be a delicious irony
don't worry russia: belarus has your back! you have international friends! pffffft. you reap what you sow, douchebags
russia is a fucking pathetic country of mafia goons and neoserfs in a walled garden of propaganda lies. in the 1990s they could have socially and politically liberalized. instead they decided to copy the cult of personality of north korea with putin. nice job russia! they could have had a liberal economy. instead they decided to be a petrostate controlled by corrupt oligarchs. smart russia!
the next step is dissolution. sometime this century
let's carve this dying piece of shit up
germany or poland: want konigsberg (kaliningrad) back? finland, you get karelia back. japan: kurils and sakhalin. georgia abkhazai, ukraine crimea and donetsk. japan and usa, you may have to "temporarily" occupy kamchatka to keep it from china
i welcome the siberian countries of sakha republic (yakutia), tuva, irkutsk, all under china's thumb, carved from russia using the same thuggy bullshit they pulled on georgia and ukraine: "local" freedom fighters, no direct declaration of war. yes, china has huge ethnic chinese minorities in siberia. china should be "concerned" about how chinese people are being treated by russia (sound familar moscow?), and might have to occupy and carve up weak dying corrupt russia to "protect" it's peoples. hey: you wrote the playbook moscow
psuh the rot west past the urals to just the volga basin
and russia, having absolutely no friends because of their neoimperialist thuggery today, and a broken economy, and a rusting military, won't be able to do anything about it
russia is a nuclear power you say?
oh, don't worry: china won't invade, no war will be declared
local freedom fighters will revolt (the area already has huge chinese minorities) and china will simply provide "humanitarian" aid to local chinese. russia will complain the "local" revolutionaries have the latest chinese military tech and will claim some are in fact chinese army
china won't care about the complaints. the world won't care about the complaints
No, you are the moron if you think borders don't matter.
where did i say that retard? can you tell the difference between the real people you are talking to and what they say, and the scary bogeymen that only exist in your head?
i didn't even know who that guy was until all the herp derps started spouting this name, i was like, who the fuck is alinsky? ah, some random nugget the conspiratards latched onto, to frame their fantastic imagination
yup, classic alex jones crap
and you didn't ask a serious question. you're a retard. the issues that matter to you are fantastic fear-addled crap. you're not an intelligent nor a serious person that will ever matter. you spout conspiracy nonsense and other hysterical low iq propaganda. you're a fucking joke. you morons are very entertaining but that's all you are: a dancing fool that people point and laugh at. dream fuel can't melt steel reality yo
just hurry up and die already. that's the best you can do to improve your world, retarded crackpot
Slashdot Mirror
there is no company ever that has been run on openness and transparency. anything that is "open and transparent" is inconsequential and shallow
secrets and politics is absolutely essential to running a company. any hierarchical organization of humans. it is the only way to get anything done. a social structure that is formless and free is a confusing mess of overlapping chatter. the natural inclination is to squelch most of it. to get some fucking work done: "only let me know what i need to know so i can focus"
sure, within a clique or level of management there might be a publicly stated policy of openness and transparency: amongst a few employees of equal rank and interest. even then, secrets and politics amongst the equals continues while empty lipservice is paid to the policy. welcome to the humanity
openness and transparency does have a place: in communicating with clients and customers. openness and transparency applies to an attitude towards external communications, and it is a positive one when adhered to as much as possible. meanwhile internal communications is a series of walls and shifting allegiances. it has to be. nothing can get done when no one can focus
if you are a cynic, and a slave, yes
to the extent that what you said is not true, is to the same extent the number of people with enough heart and enough backbone to believe and do otherwise
so grow a fucking backbone
the world is improving. progress is real. slowed down and held back not by those with malicious intent- those assholes always exist, but by people like you. the most amazing thing to me is people like you. people who willingly and openly bend over and accept their malice as your reality. fucking pathetic, weak, contemptible worms
that's all you and your words mean to me
yeah i was thinking the same thing
all organizations have secrets. some of those secrets are necessary. divulging them of course is damaging to the company. it's a betrayal, a backstab. for any number of motivations: greed, revenge, etc
meanwhile, openness and transparency are nice attitudes to have towards your clients and customers, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the internal workings of a corporation. this is plainly obvious to anyone in a professional organization. openness and transparency just doesn't apply in the halls of corporate hq. the idea is laughable
so for someone to bloviate about openness and transparency in regards to internal corporate workings in the baldly incoherent way as the passage you cited
1. shows them to have a dangerously facile idea of what openness and transparency really means, or
2. shows them to openly wield the concepts in a knowingly orwellian manner
either way, it shows important people at facebook with a dangerously immature or malicious understanding of concepts that, when applied to the kind of data they siphon up about millions of people, is frightening
yeah, we all know the cynical line "if you don't pay for it, you are the product" and it's a funny laugh, but little utterances like the passage you highlighted suddenly makes it so stark, like a chill down the spine, about what a company like facebook is doing in society, doing to society
if zuckberberg had said "we had secrets, you let them out, fuck you" then i can respect this man as a capable corporate stooge. but the disingenuous way in which he applies the concepts of openness and transparency to a simple case of corporate backstabbing makes me frightened about the kind of power this company holds and the way they think about the power
yeah, so i stopped reading there
think about, and get back to me
it's either public or it isn't
if he took something private and made it public, i might agree with you
if the information was already available publicly, the intern did nothing wrong at all. and rather than punishing a lowly intern, facebook should be apologizing to its users, and this intern deserves a reward for showing how facebook fucked up. he is doing a service to us, no matter how fucked up facebook's attitude is to a problem of it's own fucking creation
yup, well said
and...
so why did they fire him for it?
the exploit was known since 2012
the point isn't the kid's behavior, the point is his employer's bad behavior
"well the guy was smoking pot when he was aiding the stranded motorist, so the police had to kill him"
that's not an analogy of the same magnitude, but it's an analogy of the same failure of logic: that some minor faux pas, even when committed while doing society a benefit, justifies authority overreacting and committing a far worse error
no, it doesn't
you fail
try again
well said
here are your choices:
1. employee or white hat or grey hat comes to you with an exploit. you reward him for the discovery, you squash the exploit. the media paints you in a good light. more white hats and employees are eager to come forward with exploits they find. your userbase is happy with the quick resolution, transparency, and eagerness to protect
2. employee or white hate or grey hat comes to you with an exploit. you fire him, sue him, ignore him, censor him. maybe you don't squash the exploit, you think you can just hide it. of course, the media gets wind anyways and paints you as a moron who thinks you can sweep it under the rug or an idiot in denial for your "no comment" when asked about the exploit. white hats and employees are discouraged and hide exploits or, turn into grey hats and black hats and sell your exploit underground or use them for nefarious purposes themselves. you don't find about it until much later as no one wants to talk to you after the reception you've demonstrated. you are hacked, your userbase grows angry and shrinks, your third quarter profit takes a hit, the guys in the corner office call you in and ask you to account for the problems
those are choices middle management morons. proceed accordingly
oh, the guy wrote an app instead of coming to you immediately?
gee, how horrible
hide your blind shortsighted anger, paint on a fake smile, and give him a reward
because that's what is in your best interests you fucking pinhead! you WANT these guys to come to you, so you NEVER show any negativity to anyone who has shown how YOU have failed by discovering the exploit. the original shame, the original failure is YOUR EXPLOIT
it's not a parent-child situation and the kid crashed the family SUV. it's about you failing to provide airtight security with your product and you showing the world that you are welcoming to all friends and foes who would only come to you and tell you what you did wrong to allow the exploit. understand? you failed first, by allowing the exploit to exist
oh, all complicated software has exploits? true. so you're really eager to plug those holes any way you can, right? you're really glad someone found one for you, right? prove it, by rewarding those who find the holes
either the exploits go underground when you storm around like a prima donna when someone finds a hole, or you show how eager you are in due modesty that anyone come forward with an exploit for you to squash, with thanks and kudos
now figure the fuck out what is best for you and your company's bottom line, and don't be such a mediocre empty suit
learn to ignore the wackjobs
they will still need engineers and plumbers, but most of humanity will just become surplus labor
the rich and powerful will release a virus, and 99.9% of the problem will take care of itself
as a bonus, climate change will reverse with the world population reduced to 7 million and no more massive fossil fuel use
i learned it as "you don't defeat your enemy by becoming him"
i hope the russian saying is supposed to be a warning
agreed and well said
and sad that russians are living today under the same cult of personality and neoimperialist ultranationalist policy that, wielded against them, their grandparents fought and died for. russia has looked into its history and decided to become an old enemy. the rest of the world looks on in disgust. pathetic
you forgot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
but it wasn't hitler (although it is a sad irony that russia is copying the nazi policy towards it neighbors, while accusing them of being nazis) they copied
they both copied machiavelli
http://www.mayanastro.freeserv...
who in turn copied it from the roman policy for expansion in europe
and it's probably an older strategy than even that
russia carving up smaller and weaker neighbors because its pride is hurt doesn't bother you?
russian propaganda is basically alex jones herp derp conspiracy theorizing. it's same kind of content. being a paranoid schizophrenic in today's world means you are going to have a miserable institutionalized life, or you will be chief writer of a large media organization
exactly. the playbook is written by moscow
china can pull the same shit with "local" freedom fighters and "concerns" about the treatment of han minorities. no need for direct war
i for one welcome irkutsk, sakah republic (yakutia), tuva, etc.: new siberian neighbors to mongolia, all puppets of china
just like abkhazia and south ossetia was ripped from georgia, and donetsk and crimea from ukraine. china is growing in military and economic power, russia is shrinking
choke on the irony, russian nationalist thugs
i mean: fuck chinese imperialist thuggery too. they shouldn't be stealing islands from vietnam and the philippines and mountains from india
but if china picks on russia?
i ain't doing nothing but laughing my ass off
have at them china, the world supports you. we ain't helping that russian mafia goon for shit. carve those assholes up
no. i don't get tired of posting this. fuck russia, the mafia thug
china goes nuts stealing flyspeck islands from philippines and cold mountains from india, based on trumped up lies
it won't escape han imperialist attention that russia stole thousands of square kilometers of fertile land rich in resources from them only a 150 years ago. land that was actually part of china, not a trumped up lie
china continues to grow in economy and military. russia continues to shrink
china is 1.3 billion. russia 130 million
china might grow "concerned" about the treatment of their han ethnic minorities in russian lands at the hands of corrupt local russians. and send "humanitarian aid". no need for direct war, "local" freedom fighters can do the fighting
the playbook is all there, written by moscow
remember me, when this actually happens
yes georgia derserve to be split in two because they insulted moscow. fuck off you propagandized nationalist douchebag
russia is nothing more than an insecure mafia goon. their pride is hurt so they have to thug on their small neighbors. impenetrable walls of lies. immature evil bullshit
but this pisses off everyone. russia has zero friends left in the world
greece could have stuck a middle finger at the eu and gone into the hands of russia. but even greece is like "i'd rather be under germany's thumb than russia's"
and it's not like russia has the economic clout to peel greece off from the eu
feeble russia will continue to decay, economically and militarily
then china will steal siberia from them, with no declaration of war, using the exact same bullshit tactics they are pulling georgia and ukraine now. "local" freedom fighters forming "independent" countries. outer manchuria
and the whole world won't give a flying fuck. i for one will clap and laugh
it will be a delicious irony
don't worry russia: belarus has your back! you have international friends! pffffft. you reap what you sow, douchebags
russia is a fucking pathetic country of mafia goons and neoserfs in a walled garden of propaganda lies. in the 1990s they could have socially and politically liberalized. instead they decided to copy the cult of personality of north korea with putin. nice job russia! they could have had a liberal economy. instead they decided to be a petrostate controlled by corrupt oligarchs. smart russia!
the next step is dissolution. sometime this century
let's carve this dying piece of shit up
germany or poland: want konigsberg (kaliningrad) back? finland, you get karelia back. japan: kurils and sakhalin. georgia abkhazai, ukraine crimea and donetsk. japan and usa, you may have to "temporarily" occupy kamchatka to keep it from china
i welcome the siberian countries of sakha republic (yakutia), tuva, irkutsk, all under china's thumb, carved from russia using the same thuggy bullshit they pulled on georgia and ukraine: "local" freedom fighters, no direct declaration of war. yes, china has huge ethnic chinese minorities in siberia. china should be "concerned" about how chinese people are being treated by russia (sound familar moscow?), and might have to occupy and carve up weak dying corrupt russia to "protect" it's peoples. hey: you wrote the playbook moscow
psuh the rot west past the urals to just the volga basin
fuck russia, kill it
reality fuel can't melt steel propaganda yo
will sometime this century take back what was stolen from them in their century of humiliation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
and russia, having absolutely no friends because of their neoimperialist thuggery today, and a broken economy, and a rusting military, won't be able to do anything about it
russia is a nuclear power you say?
oh, don't worry: china won't invade, no war will be declared
local freedom fighters will revolt (the area already has huge chinese minorities) and china will simply provide "humanitarian" aid to local chinese. russia will complain the "local" revolutionaries have the latest chinese military tech and will claim some are in fact chinese army
china won't care about the complaints. the world won't care about the complaints
the irony will be delicious
georgians and ukrainians, you will be avenged
No, you are the moron if you think borders don't matter.
where did i say that retard? can you tell the difference between the real people you are talking to and what they say, and the scary bogeymen that only exist in your head?
of course not, you're a low iq crackpot
herp derp herp derp
alinsky lol
i didn't even know who that guy was until all the herp derps started spouting this name, i was like, who the fuck is alinsky? ah, some random nugget the conspiratards latched onto, to frame their fantastic imagination
yup, classic alex jones crap
and you didn't ask a serious question. you're a retard. the issues that matter to you are fantastic fear-addled crap. you're not an intelligent nor a serious person that will ever matter. you spout conspiracy nonsense and other hysterical low iq propaganda. you're a fucking joke. you morons are very entertaining but that's all you are: a dancing fool that people point and laugh at. dream fuel can't melt steel reality yo
just hurry up and die already. that's the best you can do to improve your world, retarded crackpot
it's a VAST CONSPIRACY DUDE, out to totally DESTROY REAL AMERICANS
(insert Alex Jones herp derp here)
how do you fear-addled retards even make it out of bed in the morning, with the world so out to get you?