Broken Windows 10 Update Causes Reboot Loops For Some Users

An anonymous reader writes: The Guardian reports that some early adopters of Windows 10 are finding their computers stuck in a reboot loop after installing a particular update. KB3081424 is a cumulative update, packaging together a group of smaller ones for ease of installation. For some users, the update continually fails to finish installing before issuing a reboot command to the PC. "It downloads, reboot to install. Gets to 30% and reboots. Gets to 59% and reboots. Gets to 59% again and then states something went wrong so uninstalling the update. Wait a few minutes and reboot. Back to login screen," said Microsoft forum user BrettDM. "This happens without fail, every single time."

Comments

No problems here

[Anonymous Coward]

What reboo..........

Re:No problems here

[Anonymous Coward]

....t

No problems for me

[WoodburyMan]

I have 10 Pro on my own work laptop, personal desktop, and set it up on two systems over the week after and installed this patch no issue. Small data set, but no problems for me. Two were upgrades, two were fresh installs.

Re:No problems for me

[jones_supa]

The headline clearly says that the problem only affects some users.

Re: No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

So, this means they is allegedly more than one user.

It works in my laptop too!

So I guess we have comparable datasets? Could we write a new Slashdot headline? "Windows 10 patch works for some users. Some users have issues."

Re:No problems for me

[WoodburyMan]

Yea.....? So? Just putting my 2 and reporting my own findings. Not disputing that it causes issues....

Re:No problems for me

[Macthorpe]

It's probably because they fixed it between the Guardian reporting it and Slashdot finally getting around to posting about it.

http://www.techradar.com/news/...

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazingly enough, I have 10 on none of my computers and this issue doesn't affect me either.

Re: No problems for me

[Opportunist]

Thalidomide worked for some users. Some gave and arm and leg for it.

Re: No problems for me

[Iniamyen]

Could we write a new Slashdot headline? "Windows 10 patch works for some users. Some users have issues."

That's how I read the headline as it currently exists. You're trying to point out a problem that isn't there.

Re:No problems for me

[WoodburyMan]

"Idiot"? I really don't get the hostility? Honestly I was just saying I didn't have the issue on 4 systems. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't understand how everyone on this entire thread thinks I'm denying the issue and acting hostile towards me. I rarely comment on /, and this is why. Seems everyone bought a jump to conclusions mat.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Small data set, but no problems for me.

Cool anecdote, bro.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

So why did you respond if your comment had no bearing, I have reread your comment and it certainly sounds like you are saying that this is not a real issue.

Captcha: Idiocy, indeed.

Re:No problems for me

[WoodburyMan]

If you're going to go around policing EVERY comment on the internet that in your own opinion "Doesn't contribute to the conversation", you my friend have quite the task ahead of you. I can understand the fact that people have the need to reply when "Someone is wrong on the internet" ( https://xkcd.com/386/ ) But to extend that to "Someone is not adding anything to the conversation", bravo. I for one think ones time can be put to better efforts.

Re:No problems for me

[rtb61]

The problem here is mandatory updates and inexperienced users. So what you are basically saying is screw you some inexperienced users, you can pay a professional more than the cost of the operating system to fix a problem caused by a failure in the updating of that operating system. Your response is akin to screw you jack it works fine for me. The general slashdot response is hold on a second there partner if you are going to do compulsory upgrades, then you had better make sure they work 100% of the time, else pay the consumers cost of fixing any problems caused by compulsory upgrades, this includes the cost of more skilled users fixing the problem themselves.

Re:No problems for me

[Daetrin]

No one is policing all comments on Slashdot, but all comments are policed by someone, that's how the system is supposed to work. (If you didn't think people were going to be reading what you said and having opinions about it then why did you even post?)

Your first mistake was making a comment that added zero to the conversation. If a small percentage of the population is suffering from a problem then people posting "i don't have the problem" adds no useful information. The only case such a statement would be useful were if it was a poll and we were trying to gather statistical data. It is not a poll, and we don't want hundreds of people posting saying nothing more than "i don't have the problem."

The initial responses were intended to inform you, and anyone else who had the same idea, that it was not a productive path for the conversation to take. Saying that you got the error and specifying any differences from a "normal" update is productive. Speculating on causes of the error is productive. Lambasting Microsoft for the choice to make updates mandatory is... well, entertaining at least. Saying "i have no information to provide because nothing happened" is not productive.

Your second mistake was completely failing to get the point when that was pointed out to you. This made some people think that you were a shill, a troll, or a fool. Some of those people responded with hostility because they dislike shills and trolls and like tormenting fools.

If you still honestly don't get the problem we can delve into a discussion of information theory and further analyze how your initial statement added nothing of value. If you're a shill or a troll, well played.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW I don't have this problem either. Call the comment police!

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I have 10 on none of my computers, but 7 on one, and the Windows Updates today took that one out convincingly as well, requiring an hour of hassle to get back to a working system again.

But at least I could choose not to retry the same failed security updates as soon as I was up and running again before I've had chance to investigate what went wrong or Microsoft have chance to issue a fix for their fix.

Re: No problems for me

[Frnknstn]

Thalidomide work great for almost all users. The unborn fetuses of the users were what was affected.

Re:No problems for me

[g01d4]

"Doesn't contribute to the conversation"

I think the issue is that comments can be filled up w/anecdotes that, if anything, are more appropriate for a poll.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly, the update failed to install the first time I tried. Redoing it did the trick. I didn't have that terrifying automatic reboot timing set and I wasn't connected to a domain.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

He asked for feedback . He got feedback.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

We need more consistency in the hardware platform. Too many hands in the cookie jar makes for confusion and no idea where the cookies went.

Fine. Except we're paying for the cookies. ;(

It'd be real nice if Microsoft paid more attention to isolating software components from the core OS. That'd go a long way to preventing a lot of virus attack but it's rooted in the oldest assumptions of Windows, "It's an OS, it has a filesystem, have at, do as you will". How do you verify something is working if you have no idea what it is that you're upgrading? The constant reformat and reinstallation misery has only worsened since then.

Re:No problems for me

[macs4all]

It'd be real nice if Microsoft paid more attention to isolating software components from the core OS.

I thought that's what the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer), part of NT/XP/Vista/Windows 7-10 since I don't know when, was for.

I also thought that NT (like NextStep) was designed to be hardware-agnostic from the ground up. Heck, there was even an (unreleased?) version of NT for PowerPC (and I think they had it running on PowerMac 6100s, too).

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Unfortunately, the other major desktop operating systems are almost as bad, just maybe in slightly different ways. Typical Linux distros provide no security or robustness at all when it comes to installing/upgrading/uninstalling anything that isn't part of the distro itself -- they can drop their junk anywhere, and many packages do -- and upgrading your distro is a brave thing to do on any system you rely on. OS X has similar problems. As long as these *nix systems are still based on the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and traditional user/group/others access control model, and as long as programs can dump their executables and configuration and documents wherever they feel like, and as long as those programs can freely access each other's data, all these platforms will be limited in how much they can improve on today's standards.

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot is a pit of vipers. If you jump in, you will get poisoned.

Re: No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

How ever will Microsoft effectively spy on and serve up in-OS ads to the people who are affected by the reboot loop though? You're sitting smug and dandy just because you're still getting raped by the magical MS cock.

Re:No problems for me

[im_thatoneguy]

Inexperienced users wouldn't know to skip a bad update. Inexperienced users wouldn't know how to install a critical update. Inexperienced users are screwed no matter what. If they're going to get screwed they might as well get screwed by maybe being .1% of users who get bricked vs the 50% of users who end up as a bot farm.

Re:No problems for me

[dryeo]

NT was designed to be hardware agnostic with just needing an updated HAL to be ported to another architecture and there has been NT ports for a few architectures. The problem is that MS started moving parts of Windows into kernel space, eg the video driver with NT4 for speed. I'm not sure what the current status is but every time someone talks about bluescreens (or the reboot that replaced it), someone else claims it's hardware or hardware drivers so some stuff must be in kernel space. Really it would take a proper micro-kernel to completely avoid the issue as far as I understand it and even the above is just my understanding.

Re:No problems for me

[circletimessquare]

learn to ignore the wackjobs

Re:No problems for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Or in your case, blend in and be one.

Re:No problems for me

[rtb61]

So it would seem to me you agree that inexperienced users who experience a failed compulsory upgrade are screwed as a result of M$'s actions and as such M$ should pay the cost for fixing any failures that result from a poorly executed compulsory upgrade, not the inexperienced users choice or actions, hmm, class action law suit time ;).

Re:No problems for me

[KGIII]

I updated something today. I do not actually recall what it was. AppArmour was yesterday... Hmm... I do not really recall? I did it on like five computers to and then did other distros on other PCs but they had different updates. Hmm... I did not break anything (that I know of) but I do not think I have actually rebooted any of them.

Re:No problems for me

[KGIII]

To be fair, let us ask you this question... What has your post got to do with the topic of the thread?

Personally, I do not moderate... However, I still opine on such at times. This is one of those times. Why the "off-topic" moderation in the first place??? There are, at best, three comments out of one hundred that are on topic. I am egregious in this area, it is more like 3/1000 for me but I have enough karma for a dozen people so I never let the idea stop me from posting mindless drivel (such as this).

I think, and I am not sure - I am not in the mind of the other users - that they tend to moderate off-topic when they disagree and can find nothing else more approprite to use for moderation. I am okay with that, I suppose. I do not have much use for Internet Points and am actually amazed I have always had good karma because I am not really a very nice (or even all that smart) person. No, really, I am not smart. I can read a book in a day and keep it locked away for a long time until I test on it. Doing original research was really difficult for me. But, as usual, I digress...

So, you're attempting to control another person by influencing their opinion and letting them know your opinion. That's what we do - I am reasonably sure it is futile. However, you seem to be doing it in the name of a post not actually adding any value to the discussion. To which I reply, well, what did you add? I am convinced I have added nothing of any value and will not change your mind even if I view you as completely wrong and that no matter how much effort and evidence are put into it your mind will still not be swayed. So, really, what did you add for value?

Now, I would argue with it - which means I am arguing with me. No, I am not stoned yet. I would say they added lots to the discussion. How? They inspired you to make your comment. Your comment inspired mine. I look and I see lots of comments below their post. I say that, indeed, they added to the discussion and if we want to use a decent metric they added more to it than your or I did - combined. They may not have added to the conversation in a manner that you approve of but I think it silly to claim they did not add to the conversation when the evidence is right here in front of us. It is as silly as saying you did not add anything - you did. I read your post and even replied. Had I not replied and only read it then you would still have added to the conversation.

I guess, well, I have never been a fan of the off-topic complaints (within reason - let's be honest about this). I have been reading /. since near the very start and have been a member for a very long time. I do not recall one single thread were even 1/10 of the comments were discussing the topic of the article. Shit, it is taboo to even read the article. Some of us are Puritans who do not even read the summary! Topic? The topic is what you felt like responding with to the comment that preceded your comment or, alternatively, the article itself or even just some mindless drivel that you associate with it. There has never been anything close to a strict adherence to the topic.

But, enough gibberish from me. I don't really have a point, I suppose. I dare say that it is entirely off-topic. To that I say, "Good." (And diabeetus.) I can accept the consequences and do so knowingly.

TL;DR Shirley, unruffle your bloomers and knock the sand out of your bits. You're on the internet now. Off-topic is a silly complaint, usually, and there is no point in debating it as you will not agree and I am not likely to change my mind. Welcome to the internet.

Re:No problems for me

[KGIII]

That's General Slashdot to you, maggot. Sheesh, you can at least capitalize his name and rank if you're going to argue about conventions.

Re:No problems for me

[KGIII]

Nah, I expect them to take the time to learn to fix their computers. This is 2015, it is about time to learn how to drive even if you're really very good at snapping the buggy whip. Google is close and even Bing will lend a helping hand.

Re:No problems for me

[Hognoxious]

If you're too fucking special to write out "with" properly, then at least try to avoid running it into the following word.

Re:No problems for me

[Daetrin]

Apparently my post was too long and you didn't read it. I never complained about posts being off topic. Some of the most interesting things i've seen on Slashdot have been off the topic of the article. The OP's comment got a negative response not because it was off topic (it was actually very on topic) but because it added no information content to the conversation. It was literally the null set. And it should be noted that i was not one of the people making the original complaints, i was just explaining to the OP why other people complained.

The fact that he complained about getting a negative response led to a bunch of off topic conversation about why he got a negative response, parts of which have been entertaining. So it was not the fact that he made a zero information post that led to the conversation we are having, it is that people criticized him for that post and then he complained about the criticism, and then people explained the reasons for that criticism. So if you wish to argue that the ends justify the means you shouldn't complain about people complaining, because complaining just generates more grist for the mill. (Of course that means you should complain, just to generate more grist for the mill. Complainception!)

TL;DR: I agree with you that off-topic is a silly complaint, so there is no point in debating it because we already agree. Next time read more carefully before assuming people said something that they didn't. Welcome to the internet.

Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Falconnan]

No update cycle is perfect. Problems happen. But being unable to refuse an update, or roll it back, etc., is a recipe for problems galore. The wise thing for Microsoft would be to establish four basic categories of update: Security, Important, Optional, and Driver. Security updates being mandatory makes sense given the general user's overall lack of understanding. Important could be major bug fixes, feature repair, that kind of thing. Drivers should be given a warning label and made completely optional and non-automatic. Optional is optional. "We want a unified support environment" does not help the end user who cannot do his/her homework.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[drinkypoo]

No update cycle is perfect. Problems happen. But being unable to refuse an update, or roll it back, etc., is a recipe for problems galore.

You can do all of those things, although the means are extremely non-obvious.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[gstoddart]

This is more about making life easier for Microsoft than it is about giving a damn about users.

When I forcibly uninstalled the update to Windows 8.1 which started pushing Windows 10 at me, one of the things it said it was doing was adding a piece to monitor and evaluate how well system updates are going. Basically gather metrics on how bad they're doing.

Microsoft has decided that it's their computer, that if they feel an update needs to be applied they will, and that if it breaks for some users that's an unfortunate side effect of having your customers doing your beta testing ... but thanks for doing our beta testing.

The trend with computers and electronic devices is for the license to say "you don't own this, and you don't get a say in what we do to it". And people are going to start pushing back when they suddenly find themselves with a broken computer because Microsoft forced an update on them.

Microsoft isn't going to pay to fix it, they're not going to pay for the loss of productivity. They're simply going to say "bummer", and keep doing it.

Which if you or I did that we'd be charged criminally under the computer fraud and abuse act or something similar.

But they have an EULA which says they're allowed to.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Falconnan]

True, but that "non-obvious" part is the problem. It should be obvious, clearly labelled, and functional. The fact I can edit the registry and not nuke a computer is great. My father or uncle on the other hand... Just lots of "no". Though, really, I suppose I should thank Microsoft for the job security.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly this. I never install an update the day it comes out because of these issues. It's better to wait it out a bit, let the bugs to the patch that was supposed to fix other bugs, get patched. Now people don't have that option and well... expect some very angry customers and business owners to reach out to you in disgust. GREAT way to build trust with your user base! WOOHOO!

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[drinkypoo]

Actually they disabled the registry tweak in RTM, but you can either disable the service or use the group policy editor to restore the option to prompt you before updates, and the tool which hides driver updates can actually be used to hide any windows update.

I think it's a bit shameful that you have to do anything but click a couple of times to make the system prompt you before installing updates. I want to review them every time, and that should be the default. People should be encouraged to actually read the patch summaries by making that a one-click, like it has been, and the full description with one more click, like it has been.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like they basically have? Sure, you have to install a stand alone patch to gain control over windows update again, but it's basically what you are stating. You still won't avoid bad patches though, that just happens now and then, but you can at least tell update to only really care about OS updates and block the driver updates, most of the issues are bad drivers.

I still haven't installed this, it has not giving me the "windows 10 is ready" BS, so I've downloaded the media creation tool. I intend to try a fresh clean install from iso or usb to see how the laptop takes to win10, and whenever the upgrade becomes available I will do an upgrade on my desktop.

Besides, in this case those who do have an issue see a few install attempts, a few reboots, then it rolls back the patch as it failed to install. Unless you are sitting right there wanting to get on facebook, why does that even matter? Most people wouldn't even see this happen, they'd just see there's still an update to install.

You can opine, you can wish, you can beg for this windows launch to be a flop, but it isn't. It's one of the smoothest launches MS has ever had, the reviews are there and it was a better launch than even 7 was, even with the bugs and glitches.

Re: Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is a "cloud OS". Just provision a new VM and move on.

*ducks*

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Opportunist]

Give it time, give it a few thousands of users going berserk over them not being able to use their computers sensibly and MS will change that.

Why do you think I haven't installed Win10 yet? It takes time for a corporation to find out that their latest way to screw over the users gets them angry and they backpedal. Give it time. Then you'll most likely get a very usable system once the bad and the ugly that they wanted to screw us over with had to be removed.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The wise thing for Microsoft would be to establish four basic categories of update: Security, Important, Optional, and Driver. "

Why the hell would that make a difference? Microsoft marks things as Important based on whether they WANT you to have it, not so much on whether it's actually important that you have it. You know, like their update for adding nagware to upgrade to Windows 10.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Win8 did exactly this, broke all systems that had GRUB installed.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

You roll it out slowly to ever-larger statistically representative pools. Clowns who deviate from happy paths.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Falconnan]

Except I don't want it to be a flop. I actually like Windows, and see Microsoft as a way to help keep Apple and Google "honest" (as much as that's possible). But whenever someone reduces my potential control over my computer in a way that creates risk, my desire to smack them with a proverbial brick rises. Windows 10 is actually not horrible from what I am seeing. But when it breaks, it breaks hard, and that's a problem. I don't expect perfection when they don't really control what else may be present on the computer, but I do expect to be able to at least delay while others take that risk first.

Plus, as for your Facebook comment... some of us have time-sensitive work to do, even with the "Home" version. School and jobs are real concerns for real people.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

But they have an EULA which says they're allowed to.

Which is absolutely worthless in California - the Land of Nuts and Flakes. So happy that I live there as the State Supreme Court has already ruled in regards to EULA's from MS that they are flat worthless and will not be enforced in the State. Means MS had better watch out.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Culture20]

Reading the patch summaries would be nice if most of them weren't a minor variation of "Fixes an issue with Windows on some computers". That's a pretty useless summary.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Drethon]

Makes me think what they should have done is to use the current system where updates cannot be turned off but any user can specify updates to decline. Then perhaps allow them to delay all updates for 1-7 days so they have time to figure out if an update should be declined. This could help avoid machines that haven't been updated for years.

Re: Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah the EULA lists a maximum damages clause... if I remember correctly the most the will pay out is $1 (us).

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

About the Second or Third or One-hundredth time you're faced with cleaning a system riddled with malware you really, really, really stop caring about lofty concepts about "ownership" for non-technical users.

They're incapable of administering such a system and thus don't deserve the privilege. Their neglect just provides another node for the malware bot army. Give them an iOS device or a chromebook and call it good. The walled garden, for them, is a good thing.

It's much better, on the whole, to force the updates and let microsoft clean up the mess if something goes wrong. It will force microsoft to make updates more robust anyway.

You're a power user. Shut you whining hole and pony up for a pro version of windows or go to Linux/BSD/whatever.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[wbo]

The summary is just that - a summary. If you want details, look up the knowledge base article referenced in the update which often has far more information.

There are still some updates where the knowledge base article doesn't have very much detail but for many updates it will give a nice overview of what actually changed and why.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[MachineShedFred]

This is one of the things that tightens my jaws on software updates in general - I'm sick and tired of seeing that a new version of an app is available, and the sole contents of what the update changes is "bug fixes."

May as well not have written anything at all.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Culture20]

That's like a movie summary of "contains frames that when viewed quickly give the illusion of motion". Of course a patch for Windows "fixes issues with Windows for some computers", but that's not a summary of what the patch does. "fixes XYZ problem with Windows ABC program when users perform a 123 action."

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[drinkypoo]

It's almost useless. The summary tells you whether it's a bug fix, new feature, etc. It doesn't tell you anything about it, so that function would be better served by a column in the list view, but it's not actually useless information.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but that "non-obvious" part is the problem. It should be obvious, clearly labelled, and functional. The fact I can edit the registry and not nuke a computer is great. My father or uncle on the other hand... Just lots of "no". Though, really, I suppose I should thank Microsoft for the job security.

Clearly labeling things is a definite no no. Our UX overloads have deemed that nothing can be labeled, let alone labeled clearly because that will clutter the interface and everything just works intuitively.

Let me reiterate, you aren't allowed to read labels and figure things out, you're supposed to just look at icons and know exactly what it does and how to make it work.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except then Microsoft just labels updates they really want you to have as "security" so they're mandatory even though they're not really security related. I control my computer. Whether I choose to update Windows or operate a vulnerable system really isn't any of Microsoft's business.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for submitting your comment to the MOSS (Microsoft Online Support Site).

Which if you or I did that we'd be charged criminally under the computer fraud and abuse act or something similar.

I detect a hint of feeling this may be unfair. The good news that I have for you is that you have followed the proper procedure of submitting this information to this website which Microsoft regularly reviews for suggestions on how to proceed in the future. Your contribution will most certainly be instrumental in determining Microsoft's direction going forward. Thank you for participating in this process.

In the future, please remember to continue posting concerns about Microsoft's actions to this website, because history has shown that performing that step has an extreme amount of good and lasting impact on Microsoft's actions.

Thank you.

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[ShaunC]

I'm sick and tired of seeing that a new version of an app is available, and the sole contents of what the update changes is "bug fixes."

Well if they were honest and said "Fixed more edge cases where ads weren't displaying" or "Increased the frequency of GPS coordinate tracking," nobody would install the update...

Re: Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the old days icons looked like a physical thing so made intuitive sense.

So now we have an icon for a 3.5 inch disk which was never floppy and my kids don't know why they should click it to save their changes. But they already typed in their changes so why should the computer not remember that!?

Re: Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

The reviews are...

Astroturf

FTFY

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single update has the same description.
What's the point of that?
Why can't they display the summary from the knowledge base so I don't have to open up a web browser for each update?

Re:Forced Updates-- What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

[KGIII]

I do not even get that much information with Linux Mint. :/

BIOS Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Had this happen when installing. Probably the same issue - Turned out I had to update the BIOS so that the Intel CPU was trusted. Now everything is smoove.

Re:BIOS Update

[DigiShaman]

You sure you're not talking about TPM being updated with the BIOS update package?? I've never heard of a trusted CPU updates, and usually the OS takes over the microcode after it boots.

Re:BIOS Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you are probably correct. Sorry. Just remembered it faintly and now that you mention it, it was to update the microcode on an ASROCK motherboard. before I did that, it would loop. I read that my motherboard wasnt the only one affected in this way.

Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Errorcod3]

I had just installed an update for windows 7 on Sunday that did not work and my computer kept restarting, finally had to do a recovery to get the machine back working again.
I have had an unusual amount of issues with windows updates this year.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[RogueyWon]

There have been any number of problems on Windows 7 in the last couple of months. In particular, KB3035583 (the update that pushes out the "upgrade to Windows 10" button and background-installer) has been causing a lot of issues for some users. In some cases, it's leading to Windows Update and the associated services going crazy in terms of CPU load and HDD access for 30+ minutes after booting. In other cases, it's even being linked to corrupted system files.

That's the most serious one I'm aware of at the moment, but there have been a good number of other horrors since the start of 2015, inflicting anything from infinite-reboot-loops to corrupted video playback on users unlucky enough to have the wrong hardware/software combinations.

MS's update testing seems to have gone to hell lately. In many respects, I am quite tempted by the free update to Win 10 Pro I'm eligible for, but the mandatory updates thing (even if Pro lets you defer them for a while) is putting me off. The fact that they stagger how long you can put off the upgrade based on whether you are Enterprise, Pro, Home or "amnesty" (the less favoured you are, the shorter the time you can delay updates) seems a pretty clear indication that MS now sees its customers as beta testers.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

>MS's update testing seems to have gone to hell lately. In many respects

Testing? What testing? MS got rid of the entire Windows QA team in their 2014 layoffs. Google for it.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[gstoddart]

Interesting, that is the same KB # of the one which was applied to Windows 8.1 to do the same thing. I figured they'd be different.

Basically from reading the description before I uninstalled it, it was replacing much of the update system to include metrics, and all sorts of stuff which was basically only there to push people to Windows 10 and measure how we'll they're doing.

Essentially Microsoft has swapped out huge parts of the core OS expressly for their own benefit.

I'm on a machine which is only a few months old, and was specifically bought with Windows 8.1 to get it before the next version. And now I'm going o have to disable Windows updates entirely, or read every damned update to see what it is instead of "an important update for the stability and security of Windows" when in fact it's "a bullshit update designed to take control of your system and give it to Microsoft".

How this is even legal, I have no idea. And don't say EULAs, because I think that's a bit of legal bullshit which shouldn't be allowed.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[drinkypoo]

MS's update testing seems to have gone to hell lately. In many respects, I am quite tempted by the free update to Win 10 Pro I'm eligible for, but the mandatory updates thing (even if Pro lets you defer them for a while) is putting me off.

You can use gpedit.msc to restore the option to verify before installing updates. And you can hide individual updates indefinitely with a tool they brought out to hide the nvidia driver update.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Dins]

Yes - I experienced a very similar issue. I chose to upgrade my laptop (which I don't use much) first as a sort of test bed to see how I was going to like it before unleashing it on my desktop/gaming machine. The install hung, then said it needed to revert to Win7 which it did. So I tried again, and it sort of hung in the same spot. Then it kept rebooting and hanging at various percentages of completion. Then it got to 40% (in the big percent cirlce) and hung there. I went to bed, got up in the morning and it was still there. So I put the laptop to sleep, woke it up and it continued on its merry way.

After that it DID complete the Win 10 install, but it seems...buggy. Every time I go in to certain settings, the settings window hangs completely. I forget which setting, but my install does sort of seem broken. Makes me want to do a clean install when upgrading my desktop from Win 7, but Microsoft doesn't make that easy (have to upgrade Win7 completely, then create install media, then re-install from scratch). I had high hopes based on what people told me and what I read about Win 10. But now... I don't really have a big warm fuzzy feeling about it all...

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got sick of the annoying pop-up ad and nuked GWX from orbit.

Here's the insane part: It has six executables and around a dozen scheduled tasks. And all of them are owned by TrustedInstaller, which means you can't kill/alter/remove them until you've taken ownership of the files first. The scheduled tasks are also owned by TrustedInstaller, which means you can't ever remove them... except through the registry. And even once you've altered the registry entries used by the task scheduler, you still have to put up with a dozen pop-ups whenever you start task scheduler, because it can't find the entries you nuked. I haven't yet tracked down why it's still looking for them, and on my home machine, I really don't care because I don't use the task scheduler that often.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks. My grandma was experiencing this problem so I'll be sure to forward your post to her.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[drinkypoo]

Thanks. My grandma was experiencing this problem so I'll be sure to forward your post to her.

Anyone who can't do these things isn't qualified to determine whether an update is dangerous. Most people who can do these things aren't qualified to make that determination.

The fact is that there are Microsoft-supplied means of deferring updates. It's also a fact that they are not obvious; I won't deny it. I'm not a Microsoft-lover. Ask anyone.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[gstoddart]

Honestly, you're not describing "not obvious", you're describing "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

For the average home user, the group policy editor might as well not exist.

Hell, having to read the description of every MS update to determine if it isn't doing some sketchy stuff would damned near be a full time job

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[drinkypoo]

Honestly, you're not describing "not obvious", you're describing "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

That metaphor worked before Google, but Google is how I found out how to disable Windows 10 updates, and it took me less than two minutes.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Somebody Is Using My]

You can use gpedit.msc to restore the option to verify before installing updates.

Do the Home versions of Windows10 come with GPEdit.msc? I know that - starting with Windows Vista - the Group Policy Editor (GPEdit.msc) was a feature reserved for the "enterprise" editions only (Pro, Ultimate) and was not included in the Home or Starter editions of the OS. Nominally this was acceptable because Home users have no use for domain-level tools such as a group policy, but unfortunately many Windows features can only be toggled with GPEDit.msc, including several Home users might have interest in.

Nominally there is nothing GPEdit.msc can do that can't be replicated through manual registry editing, but there is no readily available source mapping registry keys and strings to each of the GPEdit options (I am also not aware of any non-Microsoft alternative to GPEdit.msc, although there are hacks to transfer GPEdit.msc from the enterprise editions to the consumer editions).

Since Windows 10 Professional already has the option to disable updates, it is disingenuous to suggest GPEdit.msc as an alternative as an alternative unless that tool is included with the Home Edition.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for this information, it really explains a lot of MS's recent failures.
Arstechnica.com: "Prior to these cuts, Testing/QA staff was in some parts of the company outnumbering developers by about two to one. Afterward, the ratio was closer to one to one."

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[KGIII]

Nah, you had to install Group Policy Editor in XP Home and, even then, only some of the features worked.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[antdude]

Did MS let go a bunch of QA people like last year? :(

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife's laptop is having similar problem with Windows 7 - HDD going crazy and not fully booting up, and now Windows not even loading up even in safe mode. May have to resort to the rescue disc! I am probably being cynical ... suggest MS may be doing this deliberately to ensure faster uptake of Windows 10, either that or their checking has got even worse!

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[RogueyWon]

I think GP's point is more serious than you're acknowledging. The great selling point of Windows and the reason so many users at the bottom end of the IT-literacy scale cling to it, is the "just works" factor.

Since a year or so into the lifespan of XP (and maybe with a short wobble at the launch of Vista), Windows has done a good job of "just working" for that low-end user. You could give your grandmother a PC, turn on automatic updates for the OS and the antivirus, warn her that it would want a restart once a week or so and then essentially just "fire and forget". Until and unless something went wrong on the hardware front (or granny had a previously unknown predilection for warez or pr0n), you were unlikely to have any significant problems.

(The more difficult users were those - like my dad - who knew just enough to be dangerous.)

But I've definitely noticed a pattern, since the start of the year (aligning, as others have told me, with MS sacking the QA department) of Windows updates breaking things in fairly fundamental ways. That is eating fairly heavily into Windows's "just works" advantage. As the philosophy behind Windows 10 seems to be that the low-end users get to the the beta testers/guinea pigs for the enterprise customers, I can see this problem getting worse rather than better. MS are (much as they did with Xbox and the dilution of the Windows gaming focus) undermining one of the strongest pillars that props up Windows dominance of the home desktop market.

Re:Also on Windows 7 - Anyone else having issues?

[NotThisMind]

I did 17 windows updates yesterday (the whole patch i believe) and got a powered-off laptop at night and two BSOD's this morning, although one on them was KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR STOP: 0x0000007A so idk how that can be related since apparently points to the HDD, but seems to be running fine now.

What reboot loop?

[Macthorpe]

This happened yesterday and was fixed within 24 hours. Good work, Slashdot.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Archangel Michael]

Its not a reboot loop if it recovers. It recovers. It reboots a lot, but it isn't a loop.

From what I've experienced, Win10 has issues with people who have migrated from a standard HD to an SSD using a migration tool. Since this has been fairly common over the last couple years, I suspect that this is the bulk of the "reboot loop" you're seeing. The problem IMHO are the people who have seen the reboot, haven't researched the causes, and are left scratching their heads.

The trick for MS is to quickly identify these machines, offer an upgrade path that is outside their norms (clean install*). Because short of that, these people will not be able to upgrade to Win10 smoothly, ever.

*Clean install is possible once you have already done the update, because during the update a new KEY is generated, unique to the machine, stored in MS servers. However, you cannot do a clean install, without having already "upgraded" because there is no KEY generated.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a reboot loop if it reboots more than once. It's not an infinite reboot loop if it terminates on its own.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Anonymous Coward]

> fixed within 24 hours.

It started last Wednesday, and has not been fixed yet. That is a hell of a lot more than 24 hours. About a 1/3 of our Windows 10 machines still have the problem. We have not heard an ETA yet from Microsoft for this fix. They screwed-up, and has taken a week and counting to fix the problem they created.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Archangel Michael]

Its not a loop if it stops on its own accord. Loops are ... never ending, by definition.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what is the name for a construct like "for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++) x(i);"?
I thought it was called a loop, but now you're saying it isn't one.

Re:What reboot loop?

[Archangel Michael]

Not technically a loop. It is an iteration. Never really like calling it a loop. ;)

It fixes itself?

[BenJeremy]

Ideally not a true fix, but a workaround, at least.

At least it doesn't render the users' computers inoperable.

I got the update just fine... but the Start Menu Item limitation (512 menu items max) is still not fixed with this update.

Also, the Store and "Movies & TV" windows keep popping up randomly (I believe when I watch something with media player). Very annoying.

One more thing... why the heck is the titlebar/menu coloring a hot mess? All white? There is a theme out there called "colors" that kinda-sorta fixes the issue, but it won't stick the accent color I assigned. At least it makes the desktop less visually messy. It seems that every iteration of Windows has given users fewer and fewer options to change colors and details of the user interface... while making the supplied themes progressively worse. I should be able to make Windows 10 look like XP, if I want to (I don't want to, really).

For the most part, Windows 10 is fine... but annoying leftovers from Windows 8 and this interminable menu limitation is driving me nuts.

Re:It fixes itself?

[RogueyWon]

The first thing I do on sitting down in front of a clean Windows install is to make it look as much like Win2k as possible.

Always was my favourite version in terms of UI, though I fully accept that I might just be odd and/or broken.

Re:It fixes itself?

[aaron4801]

I do the same thing. People at work ask me all the time where I got a copy of Win2K. This is a business machine, I don't need a neon-colored taskbar, a bunch of slow/pointless animations or unnecessarily massive UI elements (window borders, scrollbars, etc). The last 10-15 years have seen a huge jump in display technologies, but MS seems to be tailoring every new version of Windows to smaller screens with worse resolutions. I've got dual 32" displays; I don't need the same UI as somebody using their fat fingers on a 10" tablet.

Re:It fixes itself?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you completely. I hung on to 2000 for as long as I could. I have grudgingly updated to XP and Win7 as necessary. Nothing specifically wrong with XP or 7 to make me resistant to upgrading to them... But there was nothing wrong with 2000 that made me interested in upgrading away from it. The UI was clean, familiar, and non-obtrusive. Every single version of Windows since it has struck me as a step backwards in terms of usability.

Really the thing that needs to happen is that Microsoft needs to wake up and realize that nobody cares about the operating system. The only time anyone pays attention to it is when it is being annoying. If someone is talking about your OS, chances are you did something wrong. The purpose of the OS is to get me to my applications and get the heck out of my way. Every version of Windows since 2000 has added more and more unnecessary garbage that gets in my way. 8 was easily the worst.. Nice to see 10 step back a bit from it, but it still has a long ways to go. I have 10 on a spare laptop for farting around on during meetings and it is okay. Although yesterday the thing popped up an advertisement for a 30 day trail of O365. My OS is interrupting me for an advertisement?! Oh hell no.

Quickly fixed

[jones_supa]

Well, after all this is closed source software with strong financial backing and lots of paying customers, so things like this are usually quickly addressed.

better wait

[Anonymous Coward]

thats why I am still waiting three months before installin ...
let them go through all the frustrating hassles for me

Re:better wait

[Chrisq]

thats why I am still waiting three months before installin ... let them go through all the frustrating hassles for me

My computer will be on the 130,000 th reboot by then you insensitive clod

Re:The solution is simple!

[CimmerianX]

> even my grandma can do it!

I thought this was sarcasm until I read your next statement.

Personal data

[Anonymous Coward]

This is caused when the update is not able to upload a sufficient amount of personal information the Microsoft servers as required by the Microsoft NSA data shearing agreement.

Re:Personal data

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. Who would be shearing who in this relationship?!

It's the users fault.

[Anonymous Coward]

When Microsoft turned on forced updates for non enterprise users, they did so for a good reason. Reasons you are not privy to and should be thankful for not being.

Such a vile problem can only be caused by malice on the users part. Perhaps they did not show fealty to svchost.exe?

Re: It's the users fault.

[ZeroWaiteState]

That's why I use the HOSTS file!

Well well well

[Ol Olsoc]

So far my sacrificial W10 computer haas woked very well. But this reboot loop is just the thing I've been waiting for and wondering about.

Looks like the same old Microsoft, except now they are bitching up people's computers without the owner having options other than BOHICA.

It's a pity, because so far I really like the OS and it's operations except for the privacy issues.

Oh, I see my sacrificial computer has an update, so let's see.......

.......Well, it rebooted just fine.

In my circle, there are a lot of people who have had soundcard issues, including a weird one, where they have an outboard sound card, yet the outboard card won't work in W10, unless the internal sound card's driver is updated - yet the internal sound card worked fine without the update. Imagine trying to explain that to someone you are supporting.

I'm hopeful, but expecting a major cockup from Redmond soon.

XP4eva

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 users are stuck in a reboot loop.

I'm using Windows XP, and I'm not stuck in a reboot loop.

I'll think I'll stick with XP, thanks.

Re: XP4eva

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you're part of the problem. You're probably contributing to a botnet without even knowing it.

Switch to Mint and get with the modern world.

Solved

[BoRegardless]

Reboot into Mac OSX \s ("had to do it", said the scorpion, riding the turtle across the creek.)

Glad I didn't upgrade

[aaaaaaargh!]

But to be fair, I have experienced update loops in Windows 7 in the past, too :(

Windows QA team was laid off in 2014

[Anonymous Coward]

According to news articles (for example, this one), most of the testers in Microsoft's Windows organization were laid off the job cuts they did in 2014.

So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone remind me again why the inability to turn off updates is a good thing?

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

So you get the update that fixes the infinite reboot bug of course...

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which wouldn't have been an issue in the first place if people delayed their updates.

More Windows Clickbait

[Anonymous Coward]

SOME Linux users can't their wifi to work.
SOME Linux users can't print after upgrading..

Yawn.. there are a million threads just on Ubuntuforums.org from people facing problems with Linux.

Re:No problems for me either

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't use Windows 10 though either.

The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that it reboots all the time, and you can't stop it, only delay it (and if you're not on your computer 24/7, eventually you'll miss the delay prompt and it will just reboot). I'm obsessive with saving (if there's one thing Windows has taught me, it's to hit control+s after every sentence in a document or email) so I haven't lost work, but countless coworkers have. Yet, they still always have excuses when I offer to install Linux on their computers.

Re:The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet, they still always have excuses when I offer to install Linux on their computers.

Could it be because Linux has even more weird breakage.

Re:The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably because Linux would refuse to run almost all of their software. It's about as useful as suggesting they get a Chromebook. Yes they'll still be to access the Internet and edit some documents, but most of their software will depend on Windows.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read my post?

I'm not talking about BSOD. I'm talking about reboots for upgrades. And there are many updates, and many coworkers have fallen victim to these updates automatically restarting their computers and losing documents they hadn't saved.

But no, just mod me down and bring up an unrelated strawman. Good work buddy.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of the reasons are valid, like one of my coworkers who I know writes music and needs specific music software only for windows (maybe Mac too). But most cases, it's bogus reasoning like the kind Microsoft spreads, laziness, being afraid of something new, outdated fears that Linux requires the command line, etc. I've never heard them mention anything about Linux breakage, but maybe that's because they won't even say that when their excuse is something stupid like "Linux is free? It can't be good."

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Software we use for work (teaching):

Word for worksheets, excel for grades, PowerPoint for presentations, email for communication, browser for research/finding/downloading/uploading lesson plans and materials, video player for multimedia, PDF viewer to view soft copies of textbooks, printer for worksheets, that's about it.

What software in that is "windows only"?

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

> coworkers

The problem is with your IT administrator's policy. Auto-reboots are an option, and they have chosen it.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to have this wonderful experience of Linux desktop computing I read about on the internet. Trouble is it doesn't matter how often I go back to it or what distribution I try I always find it to be impossibly buggy. Google how to fix these problems and you're soon into the bowels of the system messing around with incomprehensible configuration files. I do often wonder if I'm just the unluckiest person ever to try Linux or Linux users are in denial about the problems with their operating systems.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Complain to your IT department, it is them who make your PC reboot after updates without confirmation.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

The Linux users who installed their distros and just had everything work are in denial. The only way that would work is if you specifically cherry picked hardware that is known to work with Linux out of the box. On your average system, I think your experiences are common. I know they are for me every couple of years when I decide to give Linux another shot.

But who knows? With Microsoft continually shooting themselves in the foot with the mess that Windows 10 is and with Linux gaining support from developers, likely thanks to SteamOS, we might just end up with a Linux distro that isn't a complete fail.

Re:The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine buying a car where the car maker tracks everything you do in the car and everywhere that you go. You can disable some of the tracking, like the cameras, mics and which radio stations you listen to, but you can't disable information about where you went, how fast you were driving or if you changed out parts. In addition, the car maker periodically sends people out and changes around parts of your car, even reverting some of your own modifications, which sometimes has the effect that your car will no longer start.

That's Windows 10.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[techno-vampire]

The only way that would work is if you specifically cherry picked hardware that is known to work with Linux out of the box.

Wrong. I've installed Linux on new, pre-built computers without doing any compatibility checks and It Just Worked. This holds both for desktops and laptops. I've never had Linux fail to install or not work properly. Depending on the hardware and the distro, I sometimes have to install binary-blob graphics drivers to get the best performance, but the system is fully operational, with a working GUI even before I do that. I don't know if you've just had bad luck, if you've insisted on using bleeding edge hardware before the drivers are written or if you're just trying to spread FUD, but in any event, you're just another AC, so it doesn't matter.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I've had Linux fail on at least 10 different computers over the years. Each time, after hours of chasing down information and editing files, I give up and go back to Windows.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[KGIII]

I have lots of computers because, yeah... Umm... Let me just point out where I am and, in my defense, most of them are either set up in a display type environment or are much newer than what you'd expect to see considering the quantity. Anyhow, now that I have justified myself and inflated my ego back to an acceptable size, where was I???

Oh yes... I have two specific computers to mention here, both being fairly bleeding edge but not too far ahead, and they will not run with the nVidia proprietary driver. X Server will not load. I can not figure it out - I did not try. They are not even similar hardware, really. I have an install disk that makes it much faster and easier than learning. (I backup meticulously. I do not mind bringing an image back up or just reinstalling.) I have another one that I figured I would try to solve... It is not major, I can deal with it. See, I can actually have a desktop background. It just flickers on and then off and is not really on - it is just black for a moment and then white. I can not even set it to no image. I also can not install anything "live" on the desktop like weather or anything - no applets for me. Curiously, I can not add any applets to the system tray to do things like monitor hardware...

However, I just deal with it. I have been using software for so long that, well, I am acclimated to bugs. They are in every single piece of software out there that is even a little complex.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! A car analogy! Seriously... Yawn!

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I introduce you to Windows 10?

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[spongman]

does suspend sedation "Just Work"? does two-finger tap for right-click "Just Work"? does wi-fi roaming "Just Work"?

oh i know. it's open source... i should just STFU and fix it myself, right?

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[techno-vampire]

I don't use suspend or a two-finger tap, so I don't know. I do know, however, that I've never seen wi-fi roaming that didn't Just Work.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Hognoxious]

XP had a similar setting, but sometimes it used to ignore it.

Re:The biggest problem with windows

[fluffynuts]

Rubbish.

After installing updates, Windows 10 recommends a reboot and /defaults/ to wanting to reboot at some supposedly quiet time like 03h30. But you can just tell it that you'll reboot manually when you feel like it, from the same dialog you had open to confirm the installation of the updates.

If your win10 machine is rebooting "all the time" and you "can't stop it", you're not reading the text in front of you. It's perfectly reasonable to schedule a reboot by default at a quite time if said reboot is required to install updates -- after all, you clicked the "install" button, so you obviously want those updates?

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have the pro version of Windows 10, you can open "gpedit.msc" go to "Administrative Templates" -> "System" -> "Windows Update". Open "Configure Automatic Updates", enable it and select the option called 2 (which is the fÃrst one if I remeber corretly). Now Windows will notify you each time there is an update and you have to manually start the download. I guess you can also achieve this setup without the pro version through regedit.exe.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

*"Windows components" not "System"

Re:The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 does not let you postpone updates or reboots indefinitely. You can choose another time, but it has to be within the next few days.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but is there a way to completely disable automatic updates and let the user run Windows Update manually when they want to? Or would it be clunky, requiring the user to reenable automatic updates each time they wanted to check?

After all of that, you'd still have to figure out everything Microsoft is monitoring and transmitting to shut it all down too. I suppose you could use Classic Shell to get around the start menu keylogger and you can remove worthless crap like "Cortana", "Xbox", "Edge" and basically every Metro application.

I think that's what pisses me off most about Windows 10. It could have been good if it were just a stripped down, general purpose OS without the malware and forced bullshit.

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[beastofburdon]

Suspend and hibernation both work on most systems without problem, I am unfamiliar with "suspend sedation" (is this where you roofie your computer?). Two-finger tap is an easy to find option in the graphical settings manager, and I am unsure what you mean by wifi "roaming." Is that retard speak for "connects automatically" or something?

Re: The biggest problem with windows

[Anonymous Coward]

If you configure the Group Policy the way I have described, automatic updates are disabled and the only way to install updates is to do it manually by going to Windows Update in Settings and searching for updates. Windows Update will still notify about new updates in the new Action Center but it will not download or install any.

I understand your corcerns about Cortana and the logging of input and usage but I guess that is just the same as using Google's services. Regarding the Metro apps you are absolutely right. Why is there both the Control Panel and a Settings app? Makes no sense at all. It seems like it has not been fully thought through.

Delay Windows Update

[Prototerm]

I disable the Windows Update service until about a week or so after the release of a major update. Then, as long as I haven't seen any reports of people complaining about their machines breaking, I turn the service back on, get the update, and turn it back off again. It's a PITA, but it's better than the alternative.

Oh, I also changed the default setting in Windows 10 to create a restore point automatically prior to applying an update. Windows 10 has that turned off for some reason.

Windows update rot

[Applehu Akbar]

One of the most irksome aspects of Windows has always been the failed Windows Update. At first it's one update out of a hundred. As your Windows installation ages, it will happen with steadily increasing frequency until every bootup greets you with a half hour of "Please with while Windows is being configured," which is immediately followed by another half hour of painstaking unraveling of the same set of failed updates that failed on the previous boot.

This is generally when I get called in to replace the cursed machine with an iMac.

Re:Windows update rot

[Anonymous Coward]

I never have that happen.

But then again, I don't buy shitboxes from Dell or HP. Or Apple.

Re:Windows update rot

[DigiShaman]

If Microsoft would finally release the -long overdue- SP3 for Windows 7, we wouldn't have half the problems with Windows Updates. In the meantime, performing a Disk Cleanup to prune the old Windows Updates from the WinSxS folder does help. If you've never done it before, it can take a while the first time around.

Re:Windows update rot

[Applehu Akbar]

Typo: "Please wait while Windows is being configured"

Re:Windows update rot

[Anonymous Coward]

"Please wait while your computer is being disfigured."

KB3033929

[emil]

This is hardly the first time such phenomena has occurred.

KB3033929 would kindly patch, fail, backout, and repeat for any users arrogant enough to overwrite the bootloader for multiple operating systems.

I disabled automatic update, which is a luxury that I would have to forego on the dark day that I upgrade to Windows 10.

That day will be a long time coming.

Re:KB3033929

[WoodburyMan]

There was a similar update a few years back when I worked at a repair workshop, it touched the bootloader somehow to the extend that those who had infected MBR's from Viruses would not boot. Kind of a blessing in disguise though, it stopped infected systems from spewing out more crap.

Re:KB3033929

[Anonymous Coward]

What I don't understand is, why would you overwrite the bootloader anyway? As far as I am aware, most bootloaders are unable to boot Windows Vista and newer directly, but the Windows BCD bootloader is perfectly capable of booting pretty much any OS you want if you set it up correctly and it quite easy to setup.

Even NTLDR used in earlier versions of Windows supported booting non-Microsoft operating systems when properly configured.

You can configure a boot option that simply transfers control to another boot-loader stored in a binary file on disk - which works quite well for dual-booting Windows and Linux but for some reason I have yet to encounter any Linux distributions that offer to configure a system this way. Instead, they all love to simply replace the bootsector on disk in dual-boot systems (especially for MBR systems) which causes problems if the Windows bootloader ever needs to be updated.

Also affects 3081436

[Anonymous Coward]

Also affects cumulative hotfix KB-3081436 as well.

Appears to be caused by invalid/orphaned SIDs in registry that need to be pruned.

More info here: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update/cumulative-update-for-windows-10-for-x64-based/7df7a262-42e6-4377-adf8-04a3beaed7b6

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I tried to do an Ubuntu upgrade the system needed to be recovered in single user mode. Shit happens, move on.

Don't bullshit, please

[jkrise]

http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

The problem was reported Aug 5, and it's gotten worse as on even date, with another patch creating more problems succeeding it.

Where did you get your 'fixed in 24 hours' story from, bro?

Re:Don't bullshit, please

[Macthorpe]

Okay, I got the date it happened wrong, but it is still fixed:

http://www.techradar.com/news/...

Maybe you should calm down? It's just software.

Had W10 scare myself with display

[bhlowe]

I got woken up by the windows reboot chime this morning. When I logged in this morning, my 2560x1600 screen was in double vision.. Found the change resolution page and that failed to restore it.. was getting a little worried.. luckily a reboot fixed it.

I would have been ticked if it hadn't come up.. But that goes with any big upgrade. But generally I'm happy with W10. All my apps seem to work (including low-level networking apps like Wireshark.)

Re:Had W10 scare myself with display

[RatherBeAnonymous]

I somehow doubt that Wireshark feels slighted by his comment.

Re:No need to kill Microsoft, suicide in progress.

[ihtoit]

actually, Microsoft have made hardware. They made the ergonomic keyboard, and they made the wheel mouse. That's just for starters.

There is also:
XBox (and the signature Big Ben controller)
Hololens
Webcams
Headsets
Sidewinder game controllers
Kinect
Cordless land phones
Surface Hub
Zune MP ...

Re:No need to kill Microsoft, suicide in progress.

[NJRoadfan]

They have been making hardware for over 30 years. Their Z80 Softcards used for running CP/M on the Apple II were popular and widely cloned.

Being destructive makes their lives worse.

[Futurepower(R)]

"I really don't get the hostility"

Recently, Slashdot has been more infected by people who had bad childhoods and want to express their anger. Their manner of expression is to act out their anger toward people who weren't involved in their childhoods.

Making trouble for other people makes them sicker. See, for example, this recent Slashdot story: Sending Angry Emails Just Makes You Angrier.

Re:Being destructive makes their lives worse.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Recently"? You must be new here, not just Slashdot, the Internet.

Captcha: angering

Re:No need to kill Microsoft, suicide in progress.

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to have forgotten the 'Let's save money by sacking thousands of QA testers' step.

Forced Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

So how are those Win10 forced updates working out? Can't roll back the broken patch? Roll back the broken 10 OS instead.

Almost as bad as the Great /. loop of 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

See here.

They also broke iSCSI

[Murdoch5]

iSCSI support become terminated after one of the last builds and it was never re-enabled.

Microsoft's Quality Control (or lack of it)

[QuietLagoon]

It appears that Microsoft has done not one thing that improves the quality of the patches dumped upon Windows users.

.
Microsoft seems to be super concerned about making things easier for itself, and does not seem to be even slightly concerned about making things easier for its customers.

Re:Microsoft's Quality Control (or lack of it)

[Anonymous Coward]

It appears that Microsoft has done not one thing that improves the quality of the patches dumped upon Windows users.

Microsoft seems to be super concerned about making things easier for itself, and does not seem to be even slightly concerned about making things easier for its customers.

Agile. Rolling releases. Service as a Substitute for Software. We did this. Our industry touted this shit. And except for a few ACs posting AC because they're afraid of looking like luddites in public, this is the entirely predictable result.

One Drive removing all permissions - big issue

[bricko]

Another big issue being talked over on Answer site, Gabe Aul and others have aknowledges it and working on it on their Triage teams. One Drive disables all being able to save to files, no permissions, all changed to read only. Cant open apps, says No permissions. http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

Dual boot linux problems?

[danceswithtrees]

I had difficulty installing Win10 on two dual boot machines. Both machines would throw up error messages of one kind or anther. Finally on whim, I removed dual boot capability by disconnecting the GRUB2 drive from one machine making the Win 7 drive the boot drive. I was then able to upgrade to Win 10. The other computer had both Debian and Win 7 installed on the same drive. I needed to use a live boot CD to remove GRUB followed by a boot repair procedure to allow the Win 7 partition to boot. This allowed me to update to Win 10. I then had to use a live boot CD to reinstall GRUB. Ugh.

Now both computers are upgraded to Win 10 and are back to dual boot machines.

Anyone else have problems upgrading dual boot machines to Win 10? Microsoft should allow people to trade in Win 7/8 product keys for Win 10 keys, preferably through a website.

Re:Dual boot linux problems?

[Anonymous Coward]

I updated my old work Win7/Ubuntu 14.04 dell laptop to 7 without issues and both boot fine.

I actually figured it would remove grub since originally the laptop was Vista/Ubuntu and when I upgraded Vista > 7 it removed grub but 7 > 10 had no issues.

Open source Microsoft bootloader?

[emil]

If Microsoft believes that they have a more compelling product than GRUB that should be adopted by competing operating systems, then they should open-source it.

Re:Open source Microsoft bootloader?

[Anonymous Coward]

Make it easy, run Windows in a VM under Linux. Then you can snapshot before an update and rollback. My primary desktop has not been Linux in 15 years. At work I put up with it but recent change in management gives me a lot more freedom to wipe Windows there as well. Put Windows someplace where can do minimal harm.

Oh and yes I will be looking at Windows 10. Maybe I can even upgrade the cloud instance I maintain from Windows 7 for our users if works out better than 8.x.

Backpedal???

[Anonymous Coward]

"It takes time for a corporation to find out that their latest way to screw over the users gets them angry and they backpedal."

"Backpedal"??? Microsoft is widely misunderstood. Microsoft's business is not selling software. Selling software is merely a delivery method. Microsoft's business is mostly doing evil. There is no "backpedal". There are only tests of new kinds of evil.

Soon users will be saying: Now that the entire Windows operating system is "in the cloud", I wish they hadn't raised the price from $20 per month to $40. And some people on Slashdot will be justifying the price increase.

My opinions, shared by many others.

Note that Windows is now already partly "in the cloud". Microsoft claims constant control by forcing updates for many users.

"This happens without fail, every single time."

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, technically, it happens WITH fail, every single time.

Media Center Still Broken here!

[Anonymous Coward]

Last month, MSFT pushed out schedule data source changes to their Media Center customers. After the scheduled data ran out on 2 systems here, I was back to 1990 recording by channel+time+duration. About a week later, 1 of those systems started working after I removed and reinstalled Media Center.

The other system is still broken - a month later. I've removed and reloaded media center at least 15 times now.

Oh - and I'm on Win7 still. Cannot see any reason to switch.

Now the questions are

[koan]

How many more issues will we hear about with "auto update" and how long until MS changes it.

And that is why you wait...

[in10se]

And that is why you wait for Service Pack 1. And never install updates immediately. And never set up auto-update (which of course rules out Win10 Home edition).

Because it brings nothing to the conversation

[aepervius]

Note that the blurb does already state this does not happen for all user. coming in and stating "it does not happen to me" bring nothing to the conversation. At all. You did not even both posting a complete and detailed configuration or anything. This is the same type of post people hate "the game is working for me". Yeah no shit sherlock, it is working for SOME. What is interesting is why it is not working for other. And in which constellation. This is why people jumped on you. Imagine 2 people discussing about their cancer and you come in and state "hey but I am healthy". Same deal.

Re:Because it brings nothing to the conversation

[Anonymous Coward]

By your argument, someone coming in and saying "it happened to me today!" also brings nothing to the conversation, since the article clearly states that it affects some users...

Re:Because it brings nothing to the conversation

[WoodburyMan]

I was attempting to spark a conversation where people people in what environments and situations they are in and whether they had issues or not. I posted I had two upgrades, and two fresh installs, and I could have added that some are in a domain environment, but I did not. I'm sorry I didn't have time to write a thesis in the time I had to make a brief comment. I still do not get the hostility and why this community is so quick to backlash and criticize one comment that neither neither trolling nor off topic.

Re:Because it brings nothing to the conversation

[Anonymous Coward]

To be perfectly fair, you were a bit aggressive with jones_supa upthread. He made a perfectly reasonable response to your comment, your gave a "yeah...so?" which is exactly what other people are saying about your comment.

But yes, jkrise upped the ante and everybody defending that is crazy.

Windows 8 Feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Windows 8.1 laptop with the same feature.

As far as I can tell, recent Windows releases have been part of Microsoft's Linux strategy. My Windows 8.1 laptop with the reboot loop spends almost of all of its time in Ubuntu.

Title correction

[Anonymous Coward]

More accurate would have been

  Broken Windows 10 Update Causes Reboot Loops, Hilariousness Widely Observed Neighboring Cubicles ...

maybe I need to turn safe search off...

[Thud457]

sorry, that only turns up a bunch of bloggers whining about the proposed hyperspace bypass. I don't see a link to the actual plans in the first five pages of the search results.
Maybe I have some spoiled cookies messing up my results.

Windows 7 as well

[basecastula]

Sound like the recent update that fails everytime on windows 7. Talk about wasting my time. If arch did this update before I get a login business, they would be sunk. Alas, most of my games are windows only so I will have to deal with it.

I bet it's Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

If you check the file list on the update page you can see it's installing Flash player stuff without permission:

Cumulative Update for Windows 10: August 5, 2015
https://support.microsoft.com/...

wht %

[Anonymous Coward]

is it 2%
0.00002%

0.0000002%

does the lamestream media care?

Re:No need to kill Microsoft, suicide in progress.

[KGIII]

I do not know if they make them themselves or if they are made for them by a third party but Microsoft's keyboards and mice are absolutely fantastic. They even work in Linux. I buy their keyboards and mice usually and as a general rule because I have had nothing but a great experience with all of them and I have had way too many to even be proud about.

Windows 10 time machine

[Anonymous Coward]

My windows 10 reports this update was installed on 01/01/1601

Nothing New Here

[Toad-san]

I experienced the same Reboot Loop problem a month or two ago (as apparently did many others). I had to find and run a (luckily free) program that cleaned up the system and rolled my Win10 Pro Insider Preview back to Build 10074. I've been stuck there ever since, simply postponing (and then closing the window on) any updates.

Not even a full Win10 install solved it: the install would accept neither the "old" Win10 Preview code nor the previous Win7 installation code. No solutions yet.

Not sure how this is a "loop"?

[fluffynuts]

So the KB has a few hiccups and reboots and then fails to install. Not the end of the world -- you're back at being logged in with the system asking you to update.

Sucks you don't get the KB, but you can carry on with life until this is fixed. This is no "reboot loop". For one of those, you really need to install a shitty custom Android ROM. True boot loops have no way out for the user without low-level access.

Re:No need to kill Microsoft, suicide in progress.

[ihtoit]

I still have a functioning PS/2 3-button wheel mouse (the first and last one I ever bought) that's been in daily use since the day I bought it back in 1998, it's the one with the ball not the optical one - oldskool for the win! I'm after a case of split curve keyboards (like the Ergonomic 4000 but without the wheel - that while useful, I think would get in my way to be honest, and I've a feeling the 4000 doesn't use microswitches, opting instead for a membrane). I can't remember what the model number was on the original split curves but they were hands down, the best keyboards ever. You know, it might have actually been referred to as the 4000 Elite? The original one was designed by Ziba Design but the actual fabrication was in-house.

Even the patch to fix this is broken

[MoarSauce123]

Supposedly KB3081438 fixes this, but that patch fails to install with the exact same problem. I guess we have to wait for the patch that fixes the patch that fixes the patch...or just ditch Win 10 until it is out of alpha stage....even beta software performs better.