Sigh. Every time Java comes up on/. I keep seeing the same bogus misunderstandings, over and over:
Java is so slow.
Yet no one here ever complains about the slowness of PHP, Python, bash, etc. -- scripting languages that are almost by definition slower than Java in most circumstances. Why does the speed complaint only get leveled against Java?
The point is that, much like PHP, Java is plenty fast enough for what people use it for. I use it for web application development, and the performance is more that just acceptable. It's lightning fast. I think this perception is fostered by the ancient JVMs that ship with Windows and IE, which are major releases behind the current state of the art.
No one uses Java for GUI app development.
LimeWire, which IMHO is the best Gnutella client out there, is pure Java. It's very responsive, feature rich, stable, and less than 1MB, about the same size as XMMS. Hardly what you'd call slow bloatware, which is the usual complaint.
Sun owns Java. Java isn't free.
I could mention Tomcat, which is open source and which we use in production where I work. But then someone could complain that the JVM we're running it on is still proprietary to Sun...
Haven't any of you heard of Kaffe, GCJ, or GNU CLASSPATH? None of these things are what I would consider production-grade yet, but the point is, Java is only as closed as people want it to be. If you don't like the fact that the best JVMs are all proprietary, then by all means, contribute to one of the many free Java projects out there!
Get past the myths. Java won't solve every programming problem, but if you don't like it, at least complain about the parts that *do* suck (like java.io.*:)
And how can Java be rising "at the expense of" C, C++, VB and such anyway?
Because programmers stop writing code in C, C++ or VB and start writing code in Java. That's what I did myself. It was gradual change for me. I used to write a lot of VB and VBScript in the old days. But I much preferred Java, even if I was only doing little applets or the like.
Once it gained commercial credibility, I was able to begin doing major projects in Java. That's what I do now. I'm never going to write another line of VB again if I can help it.
All in all, it's a very solid, feature-complete client. Especially for those with Outlook envy.
Which raises the main issue (aside from overall stability) that would prevent me from switching to Evolution today: can it import the mail database from Outlook?
IIRC, Java applets can only connect back to the server they came from.
Actually, this isn't strictly true. You can do things outside the sandbox (such as connecting to a different server) if you have a signed applet, and the user accepts it.
But you're right, the security argument is a joke.
I never quite understood Slashdotting: you ought to get through at least some of the time to the URLs, even if slow; unless the actual server in question has crashed under load (which is quite unacceptable)
It's very much dependent on many more or less unknown factors -- is it a server farm? What's the network topology? How are timeouts set on the browser and server? etc. etc.
If any of your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you are considered an Irish citizen, and can register for a passport at and Irish consulate or embassy.
Is the rule 'grandparent born in Ireland' or 'grandparent is an Irish citizen'?
My grandmother was born in America, but her father was born in Ireland. If she were to get her Irish citizenship (which she apparently can), would that make it possible for me to get mine?
It's a long shot, but I'd love to get Irish citizenship if I could.
Anyone who's surprised by this revelation (if it's confirmed) really should lay off the happy pipe. It's of a piece with their time-honored strategy.
Have they forgotten the point is to make a product that benefits their customers? How do 'features' like this benefit anyone other than Microsoft? As time goes by, I just keep finding more and more good reasons to avoid Microsoft and all their products.
There's hardly anything innovative or to be proud of in Mozilla (or any other recent web browser, even Opera). I can easily see why a hacker, or anyone who likes doing cutting-edge stuff, would be disappointed.
Innovation was never the point of Mozilla anyway. The point was to open up an existing codebase.
If Mozilla teaches a lesson about sticking with it, through thick and thin, the lesson is: don't do it! It's an ok browser, but not spectacular, and a single programmer could write (and this has happened several times) a better browser in three years.
That's really lame. By that argument, one should just give up if things don't go perfectly. I think important projects demands more fortitude than that. Why even start a project if you aren't going to follow through? Consider GNU, which RMS started in 1984 but returned few dividends until (arguably) 1995, when Linux started hitting.
And as to the quality of Mozilla as a browser, the jury is still out. I still think it can be a fantastic browser. And the idea that a single individual could have implemented something better than Mozilla in three years is absurd. BUT, I would argue that the Mozilla high command would have done themselves a huge service by keeping their eyes on scope creep. It's become a real problem. Was ChatZilla really necessary for 1.0?
Yeah, I'm sure he is... his Mozilla resignation letter sure makes for entertaining reading now. An object lesson in the value of sticking with it, through thick and thin?
Or maybe he's just having more fun with his other massive, over-budget, behind schedule project. I'm actually hoping he won't give up on DNA... It could be very cool, but it doesn't have the structural resilience of an open source project, where others can take over if the leader loses the faith.
Installation process seems pretty smooth... only two complaints:
1. The Ximian installer doesn't appear to have a "Custom" installation option, allowing me to not install individual packages. I didn't want gnapster or gaim, for example, but they came with the group I picked, so now I have them anyway...
2. 136MB!!!
Fire doors or not, they'd have to build staircases as a emergency backup for elevator failure. Climbing (even descending) 300 stories should be a pretty good workout. Might be easier just to bungie off the side:)
Slashdot Mirror
Java is so slow.
Yet no one here ever complains about the slowness of PHP, Python, bash, etc. -- scripting languages that are almost by definition slower than Java in most circumstances. Why does the speed complaint only get leveled against Java?
The point is that, much like PHP, Java is plenty fast enough for what people use it for. I use it for web application development, and the performance is more that just acceptable. It's lightning fast. I think this perception is fostered by the ancient JVMs that ship with Windows and IE, which are major releases behind the current state of the art.
No one uses Java for GUI app development.
LimeWire, which IMHO is the best Gnutella client out there, is pure Java. It's very responsive, feature rich, stable, and less than 1MB, about the same size as XMMS. Hardly what you'd call slow bloatware, which is the usual complaint.
Sun owns Java. Java isn't free.
I could mention Tomcat, which is open source and which we use in production where I work. But then someone could complain that the JVM we're running it on is still proprietary to Sun...
Haven't any of you heard of Kaffe, GCJ, or GNU CLASSPATH? None of these things are what I would consider production-grade yet, but the point is, Java is only as closed as people want it to be. If you don't like the fact that the best JVMs are all proprietary, then by all means, contribute to one of the many free Java projects out there!
Get past the myths. Java won't solve every programming problem, but if you don't like it, at least complain about the parts that *do* suck (like java.io.* :)
Q
Because programmers stop writing code in C, C++ or VB and start writing code in Java. That's what I did myself. It was gradual change for me. I used to write a lot of VB and VBScript in the old days. But I much preferred Java, even if I was only doing little applets or the like.
Once it gained commercial credibility, I was able to begin doing major projects in Java. That's what I do now. I'm never going to write another line of VB again if I can help it.
Q
Which raises the main issue (aside from overall stability) that would prevent me from switching to Evolution today: can it import the mail database from Outlook?
Q
Actually, this isn't strictly true. You can do things outside the sandbox (such as connecting to a different server) if you have a signed applet, and the user accepts it.
But you're right, the security argument is a joke.
q
It's very much dependent on many more or less unknown factors -- is it a server farm? What's the network topology? How are timeouts set on the browser and server? etc. etc.
Q
MSNBC
MSDN
Expedia
Notice any pattern? :)
Q
Uh huh. Nice spin doctoring. ;)
Q
because, because
the bigger you get
the wider you spread
the more you depend on me
now, your vision is dead...
Q
If any of your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you are considered an Irish citizen, and can register for a passport at and Irish consulate or embassy.
Is the rule 'grandparent born in Ireland' or 'grandparent is an Irish citizen'?
My grandmother was born in America, but her father was born in Ireland. If she were to get her Irish citizenship (which she apparently can), would that make it possible for me to get mine?
It's a long shot, but I'd love to get Irish citizenship if I could.
Q
Anyone who's surprised by this revelation (if it's confirmed) really should lay off the happy pipe. It's of a piece with their time-honored strategy.
Have they forgotten the point is to make a product that benefits their customers? How do 'features' like this benefit anyone other than Microsoft? As time goes by, I just keep finding more and more good reasons to avoid Microsoft and all their products.
Q
There's hardly anything innovative or to be proud of in Mozilla (or any other recent web browser, even Opera). I can easily see why a hacker, or anyone who likes doing cutting-edge stuff, would be disappointed.
Innovation was never the point of Mozilla anyway. The point was to open up an existing codebase.
If Mozilla teaches a lesson about sticking with it, through thick and thin, the lesson is: don't do it! It's an ok browser, but not spectacular, and a single programmer could write (and this has happened several times) a better browser in three years.
That's really lame. By that argument, one should just give up if things don't go perfectly. I think important projects demands more fortitude than that. Why even start a project if you aren't going to follow through? Consider GNU, which RMS started in 1984 but returned few dividends until (arguably) 1995, when Linux started hitting.
And as to the quality of Mozilla as a browser, the jury is still out. I still think it can be a fantastic browser. And the idea that a single individual could have implemented something better than Mozilla in three years is absurd. BUT, I would argue that the Mozilla high command would have done themselves a huge service by keeping their eyes on scope creep. It's become a real problem. Was ChatZilla really necessary for 1.0?
Q
Yeah, I'm sure he is... his Mozilla resignation letter sure makes for entertaining reading now. An object lesson in the value of sticking with it, through thick and thin?
Or maybe he's just having more fun with his other massive, over-budget, behind schedule project. I'm actually hoping he won't give up on DNA... It could be very cool, but it doesn't have the structural resilience of an open source project, where others can take over if the leader loses the faith.
Q
1. The Ximian installer doesn't appear to have a "Custom" installation option, allowing me to not install individual packages. I didn't want gnapster or gaim, for example, but they came with the group I picked, so now I have them anyway...
2. 136MB!!!
Q
Q