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Finding American Companies for Overseas Work?
markjrubin asks: "After reading this article I became interested in looking for Web work in Europe. I have been put in contact with numerous European companies, but am running into troubles getting companies to sponsor work permits. While my skillset is strong enough to get most of the jobs, the firms that I have talked with are all hesitant to sponsor a work permit. I've been told that the quickest solution is to find an American company to send me to Europe on contract work, but I'm not sure where to start looking, as the majority of the job boards do not offer this search feature. What does the Slashdot community think? Is the right solution to look for an American company? I'd love to hear comments from other Slashdot members."
I'm working in oZ now, like the gent in NZ said, there is plenty of work (in certain IT fields). I tried for months to arrange something from Canada -- with no luck. No luck until I arrived. A mobile phone, internet cafes and I was set -- If working elsewhere is what you want, the easiest way to do is either 1. pack up everything and go, 2. take a vacation ;) where, you spend time looking for work, where you want to find it.
I suppose the one last thing -- In all cases, an exchange with someone from somewhere else is the easiest. Most governments have very permissive legislation on exchanges, as its 1 for 1. So, your other choice is to find someone who does what you do and swap jobs.
Good luck
1) Figure out where you want to live and work and go there first, with no job. 2) Go to the Australian Embassy on Friday night. There's a party there. Walk in like you belong. Use an Aussie accent if necessary. 3) Enjoy the free beer and hobnob with all the expats. 4) Find a relatively sober one that needs to hire somebody. 5) Discreetly present your resume. 6) If this doesn't work, keep trying. You will at the very least get drunk for free and meet some interesting people, all while gatecrashing an embassy party in a foreign country just like James Bond. You might not get rich and you will have to figure out a bunch of the legal and tax stuff yourself, but you're in this for the adventure right? This is how I got a job at IBM, made a bunch of money, partied my ass off for a few years, travelled the world, and got an embarrassingly good job (not with IBM) on my return home. Good luck!
EU countries are UK, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria.
Turkey is not part of the EU and unlikely will be in near future.
The comments on taxes are vague and should be explained much better.
Firstly very few countries tax based on citizenship with the US and Australia the only notable exceptions.
Claiming irish nationality wouldn't make you liable for irish taxes unless you lived in ireland.
Further if you did live in Ireland then along with the UK they have domicile rules, which typically mean that if you weren't born there and don't intend to live there for the rest of your life you aren't liable to tax on income or capital gain which has a source outside Ireland and the UK unless you bring that income or gain into the country.
Of course you will retain a liability to US taxation regardless of where you live, but you may find that the deductions and credits on offer outweigh your liability.
As for moving money around, this is largely trivial and any bank can arrange a funds transfer between countries, although there will be fees involved, typically about $50.
Like all tax systems it is hard to say on an individual case basis which country has high taxes. Some countries in europe have no capital gains tax at all on stocks held over 6 months. Others like the UK allow up to about US$11,000 of capital gain per year tax free (obviously for a US citizen this won't help because the US will then claim their 20% tax instead). In general though a US citizen will find the taxes quite high because they will be required to pay the higher of the higher of the US and local country taxes. If income taxes are you main issue though then you will probably pay more tax in europe than elsewhere unless you can make use of a good tax planning strategy. It will be necessary to remember that such strategies may be fine in the country which you are working, but fall foul of some US legislation.
I learned this from an Austrian who did it to work in the US for years. It should work in reverse: 1. Create a corporation in your home country. In the US, you can do this in any state, online. Nevada has a lot going for it. 2. Create a corporation in an EU country, as 100%-owned subsidiary of the US corporation. Ireland/UK may be easier due to the language. 3. Contract yourself out through the EU subsidiary. They're not hiring an employee, they're paying a firm, ergo they don't need to worry about permits. 4. Have the EU subsidiary pay the US parent. 5. Have the US parent pay you as a US employee, into your personal US bank account, which you access through an ATM card. 6. Leave the EU every three months, as required by law (this way you don't need a visa). Prague is great! You'll want to pay an accountant to handle the payroll details and the two corporate income tax forms, but this apparently works! Good luck.
I am a consultant (and I am incorporated). I once had direct contract with a French company. It was real easy, I mail them reports and software they mail me equipment and transfer money to my bank. As far as I remember there were no hoops to jump through. I was working from US, however, I do not think that anything would change if I had to send myself to France on a 6 month long business trip.
I am having the same problem getting to the United States. It seems ridiculous to me that the migration laws between the Western industrialized nations are still so draconian. Certainly noone wants an influx of welfare recipients leeching off the system, but i don't see any reason to deny rights to anyone who has identifiable job skills and a good grasp of the local language.
Best of luck, and i'm sorry i can't be of more help!
If your FATHER was born in Germany, you can still claim citizenship. My wife looked into this recently, and was really pissed because it was her mother that was German, so she wasn't eligable. Sexist swine!
Let's not limit the scope of this to Europe. I'd *love* to do some Perl/PHP programming in Latin America (a Spanish speaking country) for a few months (years?). Any pointers?
Why go through someone else if you can pick up a project on your own?
"Once you're there, there are rather extensive [government financed] support services to teach you Hebrew, locate housing, find a job, "
They'll give you a bulldozer and pay you to clear Palestian homes to make way for your own.
I am an American living in NL. I get tons of offers from the England, Ireland, etc with firms willing to handle work permits.
My current firm is a dutch one that took care of all the paperwork and they have quite a few Aussies here also.
Generally, most firms are skittish about it, but many will go for it. There is also a conception over here that they can't compete for americans because of wage. Although my salary is certainly lower here than back home, my lifestyle is the same if not better.
You just have to keep looking until you make an impression. I got rejected by tons of companies ("Have a Dutch passport? No. Work permit? No. Speak dutch? No. Thanks for contacting us, but...") before I met the right one.
... or you'll kill'em with surprise when they find out you don't use US dollars everywhere in the world :)
Is this the case for any other European nations? I have grandparents born in Germany, but I doubt that country is as liberal, what with its recent xenophobia.
I also can claim citizenship in Israel through one of my grandparents, but all that'll do is make it impossible for me to travel or work in any of the Gulf states...
I think not...(*poof*)
Having your employer hold your passport is standard practice in some Gulf states, particularly Saudi Arabia. There's not really any way around it, and it wouldn't do you much good if you did, anyway. In most cases you need need an exit permit from your employer in your passport in order to leave the country.
I suppose if one were planning on exiting the country by illegal means you would be slightly less screwed than otherwise if you still had your non-exit-validated passport, but I surmise that is a relatively rare situation...
J
I think not...(*poof*)
I work here now, but I got my visa the old-fashoned way -- I married a Japanese national.
I do meet a few Americans here, and they are nearly all coming over to work on the same thing: wireless wireless wireless.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I'm an American working in Montreal, and I can attest that even in Quebec, which is viewed as one of the most anti-English places on the planet, English is still the working language of science. Still, French is useful because that's what everyone speaks in the bars and clubs!
This is just plain dumb. There are Europeans, like myself, who would like to work in the US, and there are Americans that would like to work in Europe, but our governments make things difficult.
Maybe there could be some kind of job swap web site, people from different continents find each other, with similar skills, and offer to swap places. It would need government support, which means it probably would not work.
Why bother looking for a country that will give you a work permit or an American company that will give you some job over in the EU when you can start your own company and and have your new EU employers pay your company while you pay yourself. This is what my girlfriend (a lawyer btw) and I did. Living in London is great!
We don't want people with funny accents in the USA. We do however want to promote the McDonaldization of the world by spreading our ranks throughout the world under the guise of IT.
There's always Israel, with some ifs...
/. readers fit #1. Click the url for more information.
1. you can prove some Jewishness
2. you agree with the politics of the state of Israel
3. you don't mind working in a war zone
4. you don't mind taking a pay cut
I imagine a fair number of
http://www.rosok-law.com/memo5.htm
I could work in Israel, but I don't.
I have worked in Eastern Europe, but don't anymore.
At some point I'd like to try NZ or Denmark.
(just random, slightly relevent thoughts.)
http://www.jobserve.co.uk
It's the largest UK jobs site, and some of the firms on there will sponser work visas.
how do you think you keep your inflation down ?
prices higher ? even London might have cheaper appt rentals than the bay area.
Nice flamebait, but I'll reply anyway.
Yes. A lot of new immigrants DO live in the occupied territories area. No, they don't bulldoze over Palestenian houses, they live in the Israeli settlements. Most of which, by the way, require armed guards at the entrance.
I am sure some of them are tricked into living there. Some of them like the tax benefits and lower home costs (which new immigrants get anyway).
But a whole lot of them are the kind of people who moved 'back' to Israel because it's their Birthright, And it's that attitude that's making Peace be a lot harder to attain (ie, neither side is willing to be adult about this).
--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
I empathize with the innocent Palestenians too. I also empathize with people like... let's seee... me. Who have had friends blown up by suicidal bombers. Who have gotten off a bus 60 seconds before it blew up. Who has seen innocent children blown to bits for... what? Does anyone there even remember what they're fighting for? I think not.
What it boils down to is this. The Israeli government (even the current insane one) takes military action, and performs precise military strikes against the actual terrorist factions.
The Palestenian terrorists blow up school busses, ambush teenagers and bash their brains out, and commit suicide in an explosive manner.
How do you deter someone from committing suicide when they are promised all the glories of Heaven in the afterlife if they take enough innocent bystanders with them?
I'm not saying the Israeli Government is right, or that the Palestenians are wrong. I'm saying BOTH sides are wrong. They don't WANT peace. I used to think they did once. Maybe a minority on either side does, but they don't seem to be able to act on it.
My point? Empathize with both sides.
BTW, why do you spell it "Isrial"?
--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
And this has been the palestenians land since when?
The 'occupied territories' were captured from Jordan. If anyone has a right to them, it's Jordan, and they don't want it back.
Israel made this land and it's occupants part of the State of Israel in every way - they got the same infrastructure, they are/were considered Israeli citizens, they could vote for Israeli parliament.
When those lands were part of Jordan, the palestenians were doing the exact same thing. The difference being Jordan would come by with a bunch of tanks and just bomb the crap out of them.
And the current uprising started why again? Because of land-snatching? No. It started because the current prime-minister of Israel visited a site that's holy to both Judaism and Islam, and the palestenians went berserk.
--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
You have an interesting idea of "Standard of living". Is it purely based on how many things you can buy?
Do any of these companies indicate why they are unwilling to sponsor work permits? Is it cost? Legal fees? Is it because they just don't need you that badly?
ADSL in most places, 512Kbit/128Kbit, 1 Gig per month transferred, $99 per month.
Wellington has cable modems too: Same rates as ADSL, a different 256/128 and 5 Gig plan and a cheaper ($70) 128/128 and 10 Gig plan. The city centre has citylink (100Mbit MAN), but it's a bit pricey for your flat.
There's also a wide collection of wireless and satellite broadbands.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
It hovers around the 2:1 mark. However, to save you some time, you'll get less money in NZ. But you need less money in NZ too. Average income is around the NZ$35k mark. It is. Really. Software engineers get paid 45k for grads, 65k+ for developers, $50hr+ for contracts.
FWIW I think my standard of living here is _way_ higher than anywhere else I've lived, but I like hills, clean air, no traffic jams, stuff like that.
Computers cost shitloads.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
Not Europe, I know, but nice none the less.
:)
Loads of work here, easy work permits, and employment agencies that actually seem to do their jobs. Best way is to just punt over and talk to a few people, though you can search with your skillset here.
Give me a mail if you actually want to do it and I'll get you set up.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
>>I think the French can, but refuse as a matter of honour.<<
Actually, our language learning system, from kindergarten all the way up to college, really, really sucks. And it's been quite famous for that.
You really can't get good quality warm beer without really looking these days.
Personally I drink belgian or dutch lager depending on the amount of cash in the old sky rocket.
Funny thing abou the uk is cost of living varys immensly between the north and the south.
A survey a while back found that you could sell an average 4 bed semi-detached house in the home-counties and then buy 20 equivalent houses in the north. Of course, wages change as well, but not THAT much.
yeah I go to festivals and stuff.
I know this isn't going to apply to everyone reading this, but maybe a few. Quite a few countries have citizenship and emigration rules that allow second generation "citizens" to emigrate "back" to the home country. Please correct me on this one, but I believe Ireland has instituted a program trying to lure Irish tech workers back from their overseas jobs. I believe this also includes, say, an American, born of Irish parents.
It is a bit of a shot in the dark, but it isn't too uncommon, citizenship wise. I do remember hearing of Americans conscripted into the Iraqi army because they were in Iraq visiting their parents as the Gulf War broke out.
Boston Consulting Group begat Bain Consulting.
Arthur Andersen begat Andersen Consulting begat Accenture.
It is all very WV-esque.
(BTW: If you work more than 183 days in Germany, you become liable for German taxes, which are a punitive 60%+, so make sure you factor this
Hmm, I don't know, who 'helped' you with taxes (which _is_ tricky here), but the highest tax rate is 53% and you got to have an income of 200.000+ $ to get that high (and if you earn that much you actually don't pay 53%...)
I salute your courage to say what you did. I have not heard many jews expressing these thoughts. The voices of moderate and sane jews and muslims seems to be getting lost in the fury of bombs and bullets over there.
The violence has to stop! Let the civilized members of both parties begin the healing process.
War is necrophilia.
Accenture is a new marketing name of Arthur Andersen consulting.
Andersen Consulting, not Arthur Andersen Consulting - Arthur Andersen (now called Andersen) now offers consultancy services as well. They compete against each other. Go figure. Oedipus would have a field day.
This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
(This seems far better than the NAFTA rules, where a spouse can 'follow' a high-tech/management worker but is essentially stranded at home once they get there. I've heard some horror stories about that rule).
--
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I don't know for sure, but the thought is a bit scarey so it would pay to be sure. Find out this answer first, obviously.
Would becoming a citizen also make you eligible to be drafted into that country's military service?
At least two trips. Count the first two as expensive vacations, where you are sightseeing the inside of HR offices, studying the local language, looking for a cheap apartment, meeting other ex-pats, and just getting ready for work. Don't bother waiting for some company to hire you just to pay your re-location expenses, they probably already have dozens of qualified people with years of experience who would love a perk transfer like that. Get yourself to where you want to be, and then start looking for work.
:-)
There are a ton of IT jobs here in Europe, sign up with jobserve email and filter on your favorite keywords. Contact a few of the agencies, and find out which ones will help you arrange a work permit if you were already living near the work site.
Come on over and pretend you are on vacation for a few months, its absolutely critical you tell imigration you are just here for vacation otherwise you may find yourself banned from the country for quite a while. *cough*Britian*cough* is one of the worst for tossing anyone who might try to find a precious job. Make sure you have savings to fall back on during this time. You'll have to chose a city, then find yourself a small cheap apartment to make a base out of. That can be difficult in some countries with heavy bureaucracies, but there's always a landlord who will take cash. Then take some language courses, if necessary, and get out and learn the local culture. Find the bars where ex-pats drink, make friends, and ask how they made themselves legal. Yes, going to bars is a form of job huntings, at least here it is
Once you seem settled, start contacting companies about IT work. Explain how you will be returning from the US soon, and you will need to be sponsored. Just by being physically present shows you have already made a big committment to making a career over here. If you have experience in the US, that used to be a big plus, but since the bubble burst, it slightly less so. Play it up, its something few locals can brag about.
Once you have a job lined up, return to the US and apply for whatever visas are needed, and get the paperwork over there. It will make your life much easier. When you have the papers, buy another round trip ticket and come over and start working.
After you have worked for a few months, you can then head home one last time to bring back all the things you are missing, like CD collections, copies of important papers, etc. I've found that almost every ex-pat here has to go home 1-2 times per year for dealing with bills, taxes, weddings, loans, Christmas. So just start budgeting for occasional trips back and forth. Remember, over here, we all have great benefits, like 5-7 weeks of vacation per year, use them up.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
True - but US TV is also the crappiest because it has the highest ratio of commercials/content you'll ever find on earth. Dammit - when you watch a movie or serie there's as much commercials as actual content. It's just not worth it.
>Still it can be denied that the English spoken by the Flemish (Dutch) is better then that of the Walloons (French). But it's not their fault!
>English simply has some sounds that are not to be found in French. Hence it is difficult to
>learn the pronunciation and they often prefer not to speak English at all.
And you think it may have nothing to do with the fact that Flemish television mainly uses
sub-titles, and hardly ever dubs, so even children's cartoons are mostly in English? Where
as the French TV stations almost always dub the English language show into French, and therefore
get less exposure to English.
>A native English speaker can't pronounce French ether...
Oh, come on now. Sure there are sounds that are difficult, but you're going a bit too far.
Ok, I had to work hard on getting the correct 'r' sound in French, but I can now do it quite well.
It did take me 2 years, and my wife is a native French speaker.
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
I just returned from a bussiness trip there and inquired about the possibility of moving there to work ( a life long dream). I was told by a Texan currently working for a very large company there that it is quite easy. If your expertise is in demand, say anything IT, and you look for work with a large company (Shell and Philips to name two) they can easily take care of the work permits. Also, the government gives foreign workers a 30% discount on personal income taxes with no reduction in benefits. Though he stated (as have others I spoke with) that the standard of living is about 30% less that that of the US (this is, of course, quite a subjective measurement) the discount on taxes makes up for the lower wage allowing his family to live at about the same standard (the major exception being the owenership of only one auto.) I have began investigating this for my own employment and have found that it will be quite easy for me to accomplish, assuming that I get accepted for a position. Good luck with your search.
It's kinda relative.. remember you don't have to pay for healthcare in most European states, for instance. You get better holidays, too. And we're a damn sight more civilised over here on balance.. we're happier and we live longer than US citizens.. even though we drink a hell of a lot more.
But it is comparatively expensive.. especially for rent. You have to remember we're old, old countries over here with not a lot of space left. I think London is amongst the top 3 most expensive places in the world to live, Paris is also kinda pricey, but the cities over here are *so* much more beautiful than most of the ones I've seen in the states.
And we dress better...
And we're much better educated..
And better looking...
Wait, maybe that was backwards...
Maybe it's 'a fetish for fair red beer and like warm dark-haired Women...'
Oh hell, I like 'em all.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I have a fetish for fair-skinned red-haired Irish women, and like warm-dark beer. Does that count?
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I am as much worried about the voices of conservative and insane jews over here - who benefit from being over 4000 miles away and are often in a position to financially support conservative groups "over there"
A note on the PND changes: it looks like this bill got bottled up in committee in the Dáil (and given how long it's been there, it may never make it out), so there's still time to find someone Irish to marry. See this page on the status of the bill.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney of any sort in either the US or Ireland.
Work permit? How about citizenship? If one of your grandparents was born in Ireland, you are entitled to citizenship. See Your Right to Irish Citizenship.
This lets you live and work, without a work permit, in any member country of the European Economic Area (the EU + Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein).
A warning on the mention of "post-nuptial declaration" in these documents: apparently the law has been changed, and from 2003 will require 3 years' residence in Ireland for the PND to be valid (basically making it only a shorter term for naturalization). If you were married in 2000 or earlier you might get in under the wire if you hurry. However, as the spouse of a citizen of an EEA country, you are guaranteed a work permit anyway.
(US citizen by birth, Irish citizen by PND.)
European companies with european business culture often dislike having american workers. This is also a reason to go for an American company, or an American owned company.
I have worked together with americans in a european company, and must admit, that the difference did prevent useful work from being done.
Lars.
It is relatively easy to set up a company in the states. I don't know what the issues are using it to send you to another company, but you should look into it.
Turkey? I think not! You forgot Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Luxembourg.
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
Hi there
I second the poster above who mentioned Ireland as a suitable location. Germany is also good, with a caveat (will get to that in a second).
Pretty much any EU country is a good choice as many employers are willing to give people a chance without formal technical qualifications. You may have those qualifications, so you may be in a stronger position compared to those going over without them.
The most important piece of advice I could offer would be to network, network, network in your area first. While the job boards are useful to get an idea of what kind of things employers are looking for, your chances of success drop as soon as the jobs are posted in comparison to what you could find on your own in your area. Locally, there is always going to be a smaller range of candidates competing for positions in your area than over the Internet.
Do you have any European languages other than English? If not, are you willing to learn? This will also increase your employability. Don't get me wrong, I know North Americans who have been able to get jobs in Europe without those other languages, but they've faced more of an uphill climb than multilingual candidates. Just keep in mind that companies are looking for well-rounded individuals who not only have the technical nous to do well but some degree of congeniality, openness and adaptability. Other languages, while not the only factor, are strongly indicative of a person's malleability.
Good luck and keep us posted! Your experiences will help others that follow you.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
If you're willing to work for a company that contracts with the federal government, you should have little trouble finding work in Europe. Particularly if the contract is for the Department of Defense, you may fall under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). If so, the first $75K of your income is exempt from US taxes and it is possible not to be taxed by the host nation either.
Specific companies I know of include Logitech, Mitre, and SAIC.
Or, at least it used to be that way 6 yrs ago when I last checked into this and helped somebody thru the process.
Very straightforward.
Poof.
But, you have a point in that it is a different culture (like anywhere outside your native country) and you should expect to learn a lot.
And that's the whole fun of doing it in the first place!!!
Poof.
Renowned American company, with business open anywhere in the world, you might even choose to work in Moscow or Peking if you like !
"Naughty, naughty, naughty, you filthy old soomka !"
What does not impress, however, is the recent rash of articles that are about other articles on slashdot (yes, there's a difference). And last, but not least, I'm so damned pissed off about posts about articles ... Doh! -- waittasec here .... must drink more beer!
It may not be that bad in all countries. the
.co.uk) or by searching
United Kingdom has a special program for
"shortage occupations" that allows for quick,
almost guaranteed work permits with a minimum
of paperwork required and no hoops for your
employer-to-be to work through, epsecially
the dreaded "proof of no available local or
EU citizens to take the job."
To give you some idea of how much the situation
has changed in the uk recently, I was told that
if I applied for a job with a local government
agency as a plain-jane sysadmin that they would
sponsor my work permit. That's pretty amazing
in my book - local governments usually want to
hire their own residents, not some guy from
across the pond.
I don't have the link handy, but your can find
lots of info at expat essentials
(expat-essentials.com or
google for "dfee work permit scheme" or
"dfee work permit shortage occupation"
FWIW, I'm staying in the USA now. Go to
homefair.com and run the salary and relocations
calculators to figure out the cost of living:
It's perversely high in europe and IT salaries
are insanely low. You had best be prepared for
financial culture shock.
--chuck
Most European countries have rules permitting short-term work to be done in the country by individuals who represent a foreign company. "Short" in this case means about three months. There is also usually a rule that you can't be a significant shareholder in said company. In a nutshell, they haven't hired you; they've bought the services of an overseas company (that's you). Said company is sending a representative over to complete the work (that's also you). Here's what is usually done:
This allows you to get your foot in the door, and possibly get them to sponsor you for a visa. This is good - nobody is going to hire you sight unseen and sponsor you for a work visa at the same time. Usually, you have to be out of the country while the visa is being processed, but that's an hour's train ride just about anywhere you go in Europe. Take a vacation on the Riviera (you might need it after three months of intense work).
Consult the embasies, consulates, etc of the countries concerned. This may be legal to varying degrees in different contries (IANAL). Be really frank and candid about your intentions. Believe me, it's a hell of a lot better to annoy the clerk at a consulate than it is to annoy immigration authorities once you're there.
"A child of five could understand this! Fetch me a child of five." -Groucho Marx
I can't speak for Europe, but I worked in Mexico (a lovely area near the beach, south of Cancun). I just went and eventually got my work visa. It's a pain in the butt, but I would imagine it's easier to do once you're there. I think people would be more inclined to hire you, even if they have to sponsor a work visa, if you're already there.
As someone else pointed out, if you're going to a country where English isn't the native language, you should be able to speak the language, if not fluently, very conversationally. Actually, for technical work, I'd say you'll probably have to speak fluently. Remember, your co-workers are going to talk in their native tongue, and they're going to need to be able to explain fairly advanced concepts and ideas to you.
I speak Spanish well, but I don't think I would have made it as a programmer there. I definately would have had to speak it better. I could discuss regular topics with ease, but discussing programming issues with other programmers in Spanish would have been pretty tough. I would have needed a few months of working there as a programmer to get comfortable with it. (I, obviously, wasn't working as a programmer.)
If you can pull it off, though, do it. It's one of the greatest experiences of my life. I have very fond memories of my two years there and a ton of friends with whom I'm still quite close.
I'm not saying don't bother learning a language, obviously you'll get far more out of your stay if you do, but it's surprisingly easy to get by without one.
Irish citizenship allows you to live and work in any EU member nation without any restriction. If you can claim citizenship, through parents/grandparents to ANY EU country, then you can work in any other EU Country. The EU currently includes: UK (inc Scotland, Wales & Ireland), Eire, Holland , Belgium, France, Autria, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, plus some others I can't recall from the top of my head.
You really can't get good quality warm beer without really looking these days. Can you get any Good, without really looking these days ? The best way to track down good real ale (beer) is through Campaign for Real Ale's Good Beer Guide. http://www.camra.org.uk/
Anyone know for sure?
Should still count because both are EU Countries.
Indeed politics aside, since Eire became independent in only 1922, most Southern Irish immigrants to the US actually left what was still Great Briton. So they could probably claim which ever they wanted (or possible both). I know that predating the the EU provisions, UK Citizens could work in Eire and vica-versa.
The ability to move aout freely (internationally).
Most europeans have more freedom to travel internationally than americans. There are still places that it is technically illegal for americans to visit.
Yet Another Web Site
just open an account at a Caribbean bank with an ATM card, read up on money laundering, and you'll be set.
---
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
So, apply for a job at consultant type of company and emphasise you don't mind to travel 100% of time. Such companies as computer associates, PriceWaterhouseCoopers and other are constantly looking for this kind of employees.
You might not end up with constant employment at once place in europe, but you might work 6-24 months per project in single place and then move to further project at some other place in Europe or at other place in the world.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Now that is a blatantly wrong statement. Germans talking about computers will use about as much English as German; in fact many people think it already goes a bit too far. Of course that may still not be enough to understand if you speak only English...
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
after all articles regarding H1B caps and laws. H1B, you know, the visa that gets _Europeans_ to work in the US.
<grub> Reading
Having done a lot of international travel back in the day, I have to say before you just go ahead and start sending out resumes you have to think about what companies are looking for. Most companies will send you over as an ex-patroit. You basically still work for the american company but are on loan. Experiences companies will take care of everything. Car, flat, taxes, shipping your ass over.
And unlike one of the previous posters stated, getting a two year stay is pretty typical in Europe.
Large companies are driven by many things. First off, Speaking a forign language is a big time plus. American companies like to have people onsite who speak both english and the host nation language well. They want someone they can talk to about technical issues. But thye also want that person to be able to relay that to the rest of the office.
Second, they want a commitment. They want you there for YEARS not MONTHS. There are a lot of costs, and they expect to make them up.
Finally, selection of a company. To many people are suggesting straight up Tech companies. In this age of cut backs in Tech you may find that US Tech companies aren't as likely to send a new hire over seas.
However, I would suggest other industries that use IT. Ag sector (i.e. Food) is huge, and not matter what the economy is doing, people still have to eat. I'd suggest ADM, or Cargill. And out of those two, I'd preference Cargill since they are a private company (in fact the largest Private firm in the US.)
Do NOT allow them (employer) to 'hold' onto your passport, be sure to have an open ended ticket for your return flight, and enjoy your time.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
Mmmmm warm beer and pale women, that is in england right?
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Generally the US tax doesn't amount to much, it's just a pain in the ass having to file the tax returns every year (although overseas residents automatically get a guaranteed extension to June 15th to file)
Ah, but what if your spouse's grandparent was born there? My wife's grandfather was born there, but I'm the geek (and wage-earner) in the family. Can I work there as the spouse of a citizen?
No matter how good your skills are, European companies are not likely to sponsor a work permit. The best route is to find an american company that will send you over there.
Here's some information about working in Europe. Hope you'll have some luck finding work over there.
I moved to Holland a year ago (from another EU country) and it was really easy.
Although i'm not currently looking for any new job, i keep getting work proposals (and this in a downturn/recession in IT) so i guess there is no lack of work in IT around here.
There are at least 3 americans working in my company currently (which will remain nameless), out of about 80 people, and this is a Dutch company.
Strangely enough it's easier to find IT positions in Holland by using international placement agencies/web sites than it is by using the local ones (maybe because the local ones are all in Dutch). I would recommend:
- Jobserve
- Planet Recruit
( and no, i'm not associated with any of them )Try searching with the keywords "Amsterdam" and "Web".
As for the "medicinal stuff" ... well, as long as you don't go around "medicating yourself" while at work, nobody really cares about what you do!!!
Actually, I feel I have to vomit if I see such words, though there are some words that have really made it, like "booten" for "to boot" (and although there is a pretty good native word, namely "hochfahren", with "herunterfahren" beeing the natural opposite). But I also have to vomit for constructs like "Stöberer" for "browser". There are words you need some time to find a proper translation (like "einhängen" for "to mount", I didn't come up with it!), and there are words where there just isn't a genuine translation (like for "offline", anyone?).
The funny thing about Denglish is that there are people who can't give a description of their job in German, but use invented pseudo-English words instead... Isn't that embarrassing?
But back to topic: There is no use going to a country, when you don't speak a word at all. At work, you say more than just a bunch of computer science terms, and life is more than just work. Besides, it is arrogant if you go to a country and expect everybody to speak your language. That's not a flame, but expect people to perceive it that way!
Good luck!
Woefdram, l'apprenti sorcier
Actually they did the same thing in America, and it lets them take on jobs with companies that will not hire individual consultants. So now they get contracts with said companies even though they *are* basically working as individual consultants. It's all a shell game...
---
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise.
What about taxes?
I've heard that the USA is one of the few countries that still taxes an income that you earn overseas, so that you need to pay both American and local income tax.
Could you, please, clarify it for me?
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
If you are part of an EU employed person's family, you are entitled to accompany the employed person and enjoy the same rights.0 107973.htm
In a practical case: if your spouse is Irish, she can work anywhere in the EU and you can accompany her enjoying the same rights.
Check this: http://www.europa.eu.int/scadplus/citizens/en/ir/
In Germany there is a so-called "Green-Card Initiative" that allows IT-workers from other coutries to work in Germany. It's not really a green-card, though, since it's limited to 5 years and has limited quotas (it's comparable to US H1-B visas). These quoates are not even closely reached yet, though, so that this might be a good way to get a foot into the door (at least). If you have problems with German (the language) - there are enough companies where you can talk English at work and in bigger cities you can even shop in English.I don't have an internet address for you but maybe just search for it - I think the German government has an English page up, too.
"It may be your sole purpose in life to serve as a warning to others."
And note that for the purposes of obtaining Irish citizenship grandparents from Northern Ireland count. Or at least they did until the recent election to drop the territorial claims to NI passed as part of the peace process in the North. Anyone know for sure?
I'm not altogether sure what criterion they use for deciding who is Jewish - it's not religious practice, and I don't think they follow the Orthodox rule that your mother must be Jewish.
Once you're there, there are rather extensive [government financed] support services to teach you Hebrew, locate housing, find a job, and so forth. Isrial has a well developed and rapidly growing technology sector, and I'm sure you could find a pretty cool job there. The only drawback to it is that Isrial is almost completely dominated by Microsoft products - aparantly, Hebrew language support was a long time comming in most other OS's. Perhapse you can do some good for the country by bringing knowledge of some decent software.
--
In spite of the suggestions and all the tests that I have made, I have not cavato a spider from the hole.
and just what might "the nature of citizenship" be but an accident of birth?? puhleez, no jingoistic rants, no flagwaving, no nationalistic BS, thanks!
you dolt! that is my point completely... it is a function of nationalism that keeps people from going where they'd like to earn their daily bread... fuck nationalism/jingoism... and what is citizenship, i say again, but an accident of birth... AND how do you know i am not in some country other than the one you may SUPPOSE i am in, and earning my living???
If you just want to see Europe, take a vacation, you'll get more out of it with time dedicated strictly to tourism. I've known many people who have gone to Europe to work and not had time to tour around with work and other issues keeping them pinned down. I think that most expats overestimate their ability to organize leisure time while they are working - you'll end up doing the same thing after work you do here - watch TV...except in Europe the TV is crappier and often in a language you don't understand.
On the positive side, there is a lot of culture to see there if you can make the time, but on the other hand Europe tends to be dirtier and more crowded than the US. Little things will bother you. My wife stayed in Europe for a few months in college and bemaoned how unsanitary and antiquated French lavatories are. ITs the little things that will bug you. Stay in the US.
I worked for 3 years as a programmer for an American investment bank in Tokyo. Best decision of my life. After the first 6 months, dozens of tech opportunities opened up. You can move companies or countries, and get a fantastic "Expat package" which will compensate you beyond your wildest dreams. Every US Fortune 500 company has a presence in Asia. They are begging for technical talent over there! Americans bring a kind of skill that Asian-based companies really value.
Seriously you should check out these:
If you are serious about this start doing some real research at your local library. There are tons of resources out there.
~~ What's stopping you?
If you got skills, then you'll probably be ok, but just as in the US, the dot-com implosion has had an impact here (I'm only speaking for the UK - it may well be the same in the rest of Europe) as well - lotsa web-style peeps have been laid off and are looking around for work.
This may have an impact on how willing companies are to sponsor your application
Uh, food may be cheap, but rent ain't. Trust me on this one, I've been here for years.
I'm in Taiwan as Fab material control software eng. I found this job through several different points of contact. One contact I obtained several years ago while over here. So, one ounce of advice when you're looking international, keep contacts of everyone you meet and you'll be able to go places cool in the future if you want. You never know what kind of strings you can pull until you have a large pool of people you can contact! :)
Also, be careful when you go overseas. Look for a medium to large company, unless you don't mind living in a kitchen with a bed apartment. Asia is expensive, Europe even more so. So, if your company can't provide a good expat package, don't even take the offer. Cause you'll be bitching so much when you get over there, everyone will hate you, your performance will suck and you'll want to go home. K, and this ain't some "American" whiny crap either, it applies to everyone. When people go overseas and live in another country they tend to whine, moan and complain. So, my advice is "shut your mouth", because that's whatever you signed for when you came over Applies to everyone!
[...steps off the soapbox]
Thanks for letting me vent.
If you have a grandparent who is orignally from Ireland, you can legally get an Irish passport. This will allow you to work anywhere in Europe without working papers. It essentially gives you all the rights of European citizenship without having to give up your US citizenship.
Frylock: That's not a toy!
Master Shake: You say that about everything you own. You should own toys. They're fun.
That would be possible, but only if your grandmother registered her foreign birth before your mother was born.
:(
The only way for you to get citizenship is to emigrate to Ireland, i'm afraid!
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
If you look on the Irish ministry of state's homepage, I think this explains it.
I *think* that your wife would have had to have registered as a foreign-born citizen before your marraige to take advantage of it.
I'm not positive though, and they might make exceptions.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
If any of your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you are considered an Irish citizen, and can register for a passport at and Irish consulate or embassy.
b as sies.html
Irish citizenship allows you to live and work in any EU member nation without any restriction. The United States does not recognize this as valid and you cannot travel into or out of the United States on the passport. It does not affect your American citizenship, unless you are a military officer or hold a policy-level federal position.
Note however that you ARE fully subject to any and all European taxes (which are HIGH). Depending on circumstances, you may also be liable for US taxes. Consult a lawyer or CPA who specializes in these matters. It may be very also be difficult to move quanities of cash to and from countries.
This page should refer you to the embassay or consulate you need.
http://www.goireland.com/low/visitorsguide/irem
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
I've been contracting as a European working in Australia. The easiest way I have found has been working for an umbrella company. Basically they take care of the work permit, getting the money from the client, tax returns etc. You need to find the contract, pay the legal fees for the permit and a percentage of your salary (I'm paying 4%) to the umbrella company. The company I deal with it called Lester Associates They have offices in the UK as well so they should be able to provide the same services there.
In fact, yes: depending on the country you get 4 to 9 weeks payed vacation.
No need to thank me :>
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
The tourists who came here just for the drugs were bad, but now you're telling me they're coming to live here too??? BTW, the wages in the Netherlands are quite low. It's one good reason to stay away from this country.
If you are canadian you are allowed to live and work for one year in The Netherlands without any working permit. After that year is over you will need sponsorship from some company. Chances are that if you worked for one year in the same company they will probably want to keep you.
Go to your local dutch embassy, because the same rule may apply to americans.
I have only one question: what language do you THINK in?
curious,
--Mike
Mike Massee
You just have to have the right skills....
In the last few years i've worked for 4-12 months at a time in the UK, Norway, Greece, Germany, and NYC.
Basically, it really helps if you have a can-do attitude, and don't come across as one of those irritating America-is-best types. (Nothing annoys a European more than 'Gee, isn't this a cute little town|car|historic building' )
Language skills, to be honest, are not that important ( as long as your English is good ). My Greek is non-existant, and my Norwegian limited to ordering food & beer. What's much more important is you willingness to embrace the various cultural and working practices of your host nation.
(BTW: If you work more than 183 days in Germany, you become liable for German taxes, which are a punitive 60%+, so make sure you factor this into any pay settlement, should you work there. Norway (and other Scandinavian countries) taxes are as high is not higher. Also dont forget the much higher rates of indirect taxation over in Europe (petrol|gas duty, VAT etc)
If you are good at what you do (and remember that there are _many_ people around that think they are good, but really aren't...), and can present yourself professionally, you should not have a problem working in Europe.
Best of luck.....
Go to O'Hare, JFK, or Hartsfield. Find the point through which all travelers departing on international flights must pass. Hold up a piece of cardboard, preferably torn crudely from a box, with the message "Will work overseas for plane ticket". Cradle dirty, sweating baby in non-sign-holding arm if possible, if available. (If none available, youthful, deceptive midget can sometimes be persuaded to act as a confederate.) Make sure dupe is heading for a first-world country, preferably with socialist leanings. When you arrive, ditch prospective employer. If this proves difficult, talk loudly about the merits of "Dubya" and how "we saved your asses twice last century". When free, hook up with band of south american indians playing quaint aboriginal music for tourist money. When enough has accumulated, go to internet cafe and submit "Ask Slashdot" question about how Americans can find work in Europe. (This question comes up every few months, but the editors don't seem to mind.)
How long ago did you go through the process? I got my work permit approved in 2 1/2 weeks in March. Six months earlier, a workmate went through the same process as yourself, with months of redoing paperwork. An immigration consultant I spoke with in February told me that in January they were telling people that it took about 6 weeks to get approved (which was an improvement on early-mid 2000), but by February it was down to 3 weeks.
ill invent a company and sign you up so i can send you overseas... all i take is 10% :)
good luck... hehehe
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
However, go get exemption from local taxes (income, gas, sales, etc.) you must be able to get under that SOFA agreement. To do that, you need to get "Technical Expert" status, which means it helps to have the IT degree and experience. It's a review process that can take a while and approval is subject to whether or not the reviewer got laid last night. Otherwise, your TA status gets denied and they'll only hire you under normal local working rules where you pay all taxes.
That was true 3 years ago, that's how I got my first permit, and it took 3 months. Now, however, there's new rules, thanks to the Y2K inspired IT skills shortage.
:-)
While the above system still applies to most jobs, there is a shortage occupation list. If your job is on the list, all you need is a relevant degree, or any degree with 1 years relevant experience, and you're in. Automatic. And it takes less than 2 weeks to approve. No proving there's no-one else in the EU, no advertising searches, nothing.
What's on the list? Most anything technical in IT (code-monkeys and sys-admins), nurses, doctors, certain engineers and teachers (if you're willing to work in East-End hell).
Other rule changes allow you to take secondary employment, and to change roles within the company , so long as the skills requirement stays the same. Approved large international companies can self-issue permits, and e-mail applications are also available.
There's even a proposal to allow highly-skilled workers to self-apply before finding employment, but the governments not going to touch that one until after the election
As for entry visas, same rules apply as for being a tourist. If you're a Yank, Canuck, Aussie or Kiwi, just turn up at the airport, flash you're permit, and you're in, no hassle. If, on the other hand, you're from a "restricted" nation (i.e. your skin tone is anything darker than ivory), then you do have to do the visa hassle. However, this has no bearing on your work permit application, which is solely judged on your skills, so it's "just" an inconvenience.
Of course, if you're already in the country and applying to change your tourist visa, then they DO get VERY difficult. Not recommended.
Full details can be found at www.workpermits.gov.uk
Ah, no, see my response to your post above.
:-)
Three words: "Shortage Occupation List"
I've been through the process twice now, once the old way in 1998, and now the Shortage way. The experience was a million times better second time around
According to my agency, they're currently averaging an 8 day turn-around on all their IT applications.
Apologies accepted :-) Don't know if it's Slash, the net or my proxy, but the response time is lagging at this end, so I missed your first correction.
But it does go to prove how few people know about the changes. Finding an agency who did was a nightmare, and forget about employers, one mention of the P word and they run the other way...
I can sympathise with you about the hassle of finding a sponsor, been there, done that. Usually, it's because of ignorance about the visa system, or greed. So let's spell the rules out for the UK:
If you have an IT degree, or any degree with 1 years IT experience, and the job appears on the shortage occupation list (i.e. almost anything in IT), then the work permit is automatic, and takes about 2 weeks to be issued. The employer can fill out the application themselves, and it doesn't cost them anything. Check out www.workpermits.gov.uk for full details.
I've found that most UK IT recruitment consultants are ignorant of the rules and take some convincing. I even had one consultant who didn't believe me, and so she checked with the immigration consultant firm they usually used. The immigration consultant, the greedy bastard, told her I was lying, and that it was so hard to do that they needed to be involved and it would cost about a thousand pounds. Needless to say, I was no longer considered for the job.
The key, obviously, is to find a good recruitment consultant, one that knows about the rules, and is used to convincing employers to sponsor people. After too many bastards, I may have found a good one in www.abbeywood.com, time will tell, but certainly they're open to sponsoring visas. In general avoid the really small outfits, they're just cowboys out to rip people off. Some of the big internatioanl recruiters should also be used to dealing with visas.
If you are approaching companies directly, try the big international firms, they're used to dealing with permits. Otherwise, be prepared to tell them about how easy it is. I do this by emailing them a completed application form, just to show how easy it is, and give them the phone number of the work permit people to ring and ask verify.
Of course, as some people have already mentioned, if you have English or Irish grandparents, or your spouse has, then you're in like Flynn. The UK will give you a 4 year residency permit, allowing you to work there, and after 4 years, you can claim permenant residency.
The number one IT job search site in the UK is www.jobserve.com, if it's not there, it's not available.
Good luck!
Go look for big consulting companies ...) or go with the big guys (IBM, the evil Empire, HP, Sun, ...).
I am sure you will find something ...
Cap Gemini Ernst & Young
PriceWaterhouseCoopers
Accenture
KPMG
Arthur Andersen
Arthur D. Little
They all have offices in Europe. Other than that, look for European Companies with an American Presence (Brokat, Trintech, Intershop,
The best thing to do is not to find a US company with a satelite office abroad, but the other way round : try to get hired by a US office of a company whose head office is abroad. My experience is that it works better (I've done the trip the other way round, to the US)
...). The Thames valley is nicknamed the Silicon Valley of England. As for quality of life over there, your workplace won't be gorgeous, but the beautiful coast of southern England is not far away, nor is Wales. You can also try to find a company south of London (Brighton) where many hi-tech companies are.
:)
As for going to France, forget it right now : the economy is in major trouble right now with strikes countrywide and the recent passing of the mandatory 35 hrs/week.
I suggest you look at finding a company located in the Thames valley in the UK (east of London, between the M3 and the M4 motorways, in cities such as Reading, Basingstoke, Andover,
Of course, you can also go to Ireland : it's easier to go there, but the salaries are less.
Good luck
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A door is what a door is perpetually the wrong side of - Ogden Nash
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Travolta: Yeah, it breaks down like this: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, & if you're the proprietor of a hash bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, which doesn't really matter 'cause--get a load of this--if the cops stop you, it's illegal for them to search you. Searching you is a right that the cops in Amsterdam don't have.
Jackson: That did it, man--I'm fuckin' goin', that's all there is to it.
Check with job-agencies that have branch locations here in the US as well in the country you want to work and explain them your wishes.
Of course you will have to pay them a piece of the action.
The only one that comes to mind right now is ManPower but I am sure that there are more.
Have you had your drivel today?
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because its easier to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
I hate to sink to your level, but that book has been pretty effectively debunked. There "process" was completely unscientific. For example, citing a study that showed that Head Start programs (which are more often used by the poor), did not provide long term IQ benefit. They completely skipped the actual result of the same study, which was that Head Start programs had a significant positive affect on Drop-out rates, arrest rates, and other important social measures.
That is the fact my friend: your source has no credibility. It was a fundamentally dishonest, factually challenged piece of non-science.
-------------------------
-------------------------
A person of moderate zeal
However, this requires strong language skills in the country of your choice. Of course a number of my colleagues were able to work in Great Britain and Australia where language was not a problem.
Good luck! Working in Europe is a truly wonderful experience.
--brian
Monster.com is very visa-friendly, and the article should give you good tips on how to search for H-1B visas (and others) on it.
I know here in Boston monster.com is a wonderful resource -- found me my job at least.
[1] http://technology.monster.com/articles/us.
~
Email me at alenteplitsky@hotmail.com. I just got out of the Army last year and I'll email you a few links to where you can start looking. The vast majority of work is for DOD and you'll probably have to get a security clearance. Be ready to expose every detail of your last 10-14 years to the US Government. If you are going to be working around a lot of uniformed types, be ready for a culture shock. A lot of the higher ranking officers expect you to call them sir. It's a more official atmosphere. Drove me crazy for years. The good is that Europe is great as long as your work involves the US Government and you don't pay taxes to the host country. You've never tried real beer until you tried the real thing in Germany. Same thing with Italian wine. And if you work for military intelligence you'll get to see some cool stuff.
German gouvernment initiated a Green Card for exactly your purposes a few months ago. You can apply for such a work permission, you'll get one (since it's not well accepted, it seems) and after that you're allowed to work for at least 5 years in Germany (iirc).
See this link for further information.
Armin.
I completely agree. Professional services is the way to go. Web developers would have a tough time because their work in not location dependant. Post sales enginering and other such professional services jobs are quite commonly aailable and will typically aford you the opportunity to travel to several countries in the span of a couple years. It's always an interesting ecperience; weather you end up enjoying it or hating it's always interesting...
--CTH
--
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
That was all good.
The big American company I worked for then bought up a smaller American company and sent me to work there.
That was all good, too.
Then, the big American company that had bought up the smaller American company I was working for was bought up by an even bigger British company.
Still, all good.
Today, I'm a contractor in Paris for the French division of the huge British company that purchased the big American company that had purchased the little American company at which I once worked.
Peace.
(on a serious note, find a multinational, work a while in the States, and get a transfer. Easiest route to take. Further, if you want to come to France, be prepared for a 6 to 12 month tooth-and-nail grudge match to get your work papers. In French. Britian is a cake walk in comparison.)
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
...more like, the Supreme Court striking down the 4th Amendment and installing a president, maybe?
My only word of caution is to be careful about signing on with a company in order to move overseas. This is exactly what my wife did because the company (a large, Fortune 50 company) seemed to encourage moving their employees overseas. It turns out that it really only works for everyone except Americans. When jobs became available (in England and France), the bureaucratic process was so confusing that the people telling her it would be no problem didn't realize what kind of problem it was. All the money had to be put up by the site to which she would be moving, which would then have to pay her American income tax in addition to her salary, so the cost of having her as an employee was like have +2.5 Europeans in the same job. Very discouraging. I don't konw if anyone has had experience trying to do this within both large and small companies. I always thought larger (wealthier) companies would make this easier, but maybe smaller companies, where it is not only easier to know the procedures, but HR also has a been more power, are really the key to an overseas move for US citizens.
--
--
Most EU Military are Professional (i.e. Volunteer) only. i.e. No drafts.
Those that do have a draft are those like Switzerland that don't have a standing military.
Go to http://www.lester-assoc.com/ they do sponsorships for a couple of countries. UK, SA, NZ and Oz
A couple pointers: 1) As previously mentioned by someone in Japan, you could (if still single) marry someone from there (what I am doing), that's pretty scary depending on your level of desire for japan so you could also (2) go there on a networking 'Vacation' (3) If you've got the space, host a temporary student from there who wants to learn more english (this is a good one for connections as long as you remember to write) talk to people, these programs are everywhere, (4) go to teach english first to make connections and decide if it's for you,(you don't have to know japanese and there are lots of jobs: JET program, and various larger corporations, maybe only go for 6 months to a year) I love nihon and her people, and there are lot's of ways to get connected. I live in Canada now, but already have two or three jobs waiting for me whenever I want to go.
--------------------------------- Born Again Bourne Again Believer: New Life, GNU/Linux Be Free!
I think getting yourself shipped somewhere else sounds like a good idea, if that's your only option. I'd still look, though. There's more than one way to skin a penguin.
Seeka
I have been living and working in Dublin for the last 6 years and have never had any difficulty finding a job. There are lots of US companies here (all the big software companies are here) and the home-grown market isn't bad either. I work for an Irish startup (http://www.kadius.com) and we had a huge problem getting experienced Java developers and testers in our last round of hiring. The pay is a little lower than in the US, but the working environment and social life more than makes up for it. A friend who has recently made the move to Dublin from Canada has recorded his experiences at http://www.adamboyes.com. If you are considering a move to Dublin, have a look at http://www.stepstone.ie for jobs. It is the best jobs site here and has a lot of info. I have never heard of anyone ever being turned down for a work permit and residency if they have a job requiring any technical expertise at all. I have had a blast since making the move.
The extreme shortage of IT professionals in Germany led to a somewhat hyped political decision at the end of last year: A fast and unbureaucratic way for IT people to get a working permit. It was/is called the "green card". America and it's english (or at least what germans consider it to be) are a big deal in germany. :-))
If you can find a german company that wishes to employ you - which is quite easy if your skills are good - you'll get a job including permit in no time.
BTW, 'cellphone' is called 'handy' over here in germany (and only in germany - they think ist the american word for that). So don't look to bedazzled when they want your 'handy'-number. Just act as if you used that word for half your life. They'll feel much more cosmopolitan and confident with you around then. A big bonus on top of the one being an american IT professional anyway.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I'm not sure, but this may help.
/.ed?), so you can email me at bryan1946@yahoo.com if you'd like some info. (Don't spam me folks, please, this is a tertiary account that I will delete easily; I'm just trying to help a guy out)
I work for one of the "Big 6" consulting firms, and we have many, many international offices (actually, we have an International Team). I'm sure that other firms probably do also. I know that you specfied contract work, but maybe it's worth a look.
I'm not sure if I should give out my companies web address (can you imagine if they figured out that I got them
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
get yourself an offshore company (or use a friend's), preferrably in gibraltar. you should then be able to perform work in europe for an EU company, but you yourself would not be a resident or need a work permit, rather the company would be doing the work and you would be there on its behalf, just like any other visiting businessperson.
of course this is not a long-term solution, but i believe it is legal as long as you declare the income in your home country. and if you're doing this more for the experience than for the profit, the situation might be very attractive to small and medium sized shops, since they will save a bundle on taxes by hiring your company.
'course, the reason they save is that you won't get any health insurance or any other employees' rights (just like contracting in the states, ie you will have a lot less perks and protections than even a normal contractor in the EU). so if you're in for the long haul, better to find something more standard.
there's a lot of info on offshores on the net, but unfortunately most of it is scam-oriented. there are a lot of perfectly legitimate uses for them though.
maybe some other /.ers have more info?
This Like That - fun with words!
Most of these companies listed below require either a security clearance, military backround or both.
m
MPRI
http://www.mpri.com/subchannels/job_listings.cf
Vinnell Corporation
http://www.vinnell.com/careers.html
ReliefWeb
http://www.reliefweb.int/vacancies/
Something else to add to this, If you are outside the U.S. borders for over 330 of 365 days in a calendar year, your first $70,000 you earn is tax-free
Cheers!
William Knowles
wk@c4i.org
Just like I said. I stand corrected on this matter. Apologies.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Anyways I still recommend Canada. I never understood really why I was paying $2 per litre of petrol, but I digress...
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Actually it seems that IT jobs made their way to the shortage occupations list in the UK. This changes the situation quite dramatically as the whole process of proving there are no suitable EU candidates is not necessary. I stand corrected. My info on these issues is getting a bit dated now (>3 years).
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
If you don't feel like going through this kind of trauma and humiliation go to another country which actually has a real immigration policy. You can apply even if you don't have a job lined up beforehand. And yes it's quite a bit different from the US of A.
Hope this helps.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
You're not correct. I've been through the process and it is not nearly as easy as you project. With solid experience and an enthusiastic company I still got my work permit refused first time round. The process is long, uncertain and daunting. It was easier for a couple of years 1998, 1999 but according to many people I keep in touch with OLS is hardening up again. You could have been one of the very few lucky ones whose applications seem to have been stamped approved right away due to a clerical error but that's an exception rather than a rule. See my post below about just how tough it can get for a UK employer to hire an overseas worker.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
You wouldn't be looking for work in Amsterdam, would you? :-)
On a spammy, but not necessarily off-topic tangent, the company i work for, iAgora (www.iagora.com) just made live the latest version of our iWork section, which is designed to help young international (and/or foreign exchange) students to find jobs in big companies. We have a few posts from Unisys and some other big names, although we are just getting started. People who want to hire smart people, and smart worldly people who want to get hired should check it out at http://www.iagora.com/iwork/index.html . cheers.
Don't forget that in Europe wages aren't nearly as high as in America, and prices are quite higher.
So if you go to Europe, be ready to lower your standard of living, since there are many Europeans who will be happy to get a job for much less money.
[Sorry about the empty post before] Its refreshing to see American workers going through the same crap that foreign go through to work here in the USA. Sorry if I sound bitter, but the process to work here LEGALLY, is arbitrary, demeaning, and completelly one-sided. BTW, if working abroad what you really want to do, persistance is the key, keep filing all the ridiculous paperwork that they'll ask you for, keep sending those applications and eventually (if you dont give up first) you WILL get it. (like I did here in the USA, ;-))
I wish you the best of luck with the visa process and a long and successful career.
Nothing personal, I know you guys have troubles in the IT employement market, but things are slowing down here also. I would not enjoy the idea of all out-of-work US web coders to come over here and push the market further down. You guys enjoyed the absolute heights of the hype, now please don't give us the joy of enjoying the low.
Tbee (or not?)
Hiya- well I came to Germany in Jan. and I had about 5 interviews lined up. Mind you I emailed a bunch of companies and in regards to their developer positions. I got offered a job at Germany's biggest internet company (Web.de), but ended up taking a job in Frankfurt. Supposedly getting a work permit in Europe is hard, but seriously if you have a US passport and know how to turn on a pc, you're set =) It took me 1 month to get my actual working permit. Funny thing is I'm going back home in 2 weeks, mostly because of the weather. If you really want to work in Europe it's really not that hard. You just have to be able to just get by for a month to month and a half, till you get your work permit. Oh and I almost forgot you might want to go to your nearest police station and get a letter saying that you have not done any crimes and such. I had to go to the US embassy and it cost me like 100 dollars I think. Well hope that helped =]
I am an American developer working in france and I though I could give you some tips. First of all, the visa and work situation is nothing like the US. It is very easy to get a work permit if you are a tech person. Basically, you find a job and then you worry about the papers. The best places to find a job are in "Le Monde Informatique" and "01" published by La Figureo. Look at www.01net.com. These are glossy sunday supplement style weekly magazines that adverstise hundreds of tech jobs. People still use the newspapers here to find work. Fire your resume off to all the ads and you should get calls within a day. Your resume can be in english, but you should get a short french cover letter to go with it. There is a strong demand here and if you do not find something within a week, then you are probably doing something wrong (change your cover letter - keep it short and don't flaunt your ignorance of the language). If a company balks at paying for the visa, just tell then that you will pick up the tab. It only costs between 5000 and 10000 francs (about 7.5 franc/dollar). It takes three to four weeks to get a visa. The american consulate in paris can mail you a list of english speaking attorneys who do this work. Watch out as the cost and time estimates can vary by as much as 2000 percent. Shop around. When you have your visa, you basically have a green card. In theory, you could quit your tech job and drive a bus or work in a bar. You can do everything a french citizen can do except vote. You get the health benefits, unemployment, etc. On the whole, these are better than in the US. Pay is 250000 to 300000 francs per year. Low by US standards, but the cost of living is so much less that I feel I have more money. I live in a very nice part of paris and the cost feels like a small town in Oklahoma. Also, you don't need to have a car. Your employment is much more secure. You need to speak french to live and work here. The company will probably tell you this is not necessary - but they will be wrong. They will also regret telling you this after the first month. Everyone here knows two or three hundred english words, but very few people really speak english. You will be a lonely outcast and third rate employee until you learn the language. Don't kid yourself, it will take six to eight months of daily hard work - this assumes that you have had some highschool french and know the verbs, etc. Be prepared to eat some crow as less skilled people pass you by in the first few months - they can communicate with the co-workers and you will not yet be able to do this. It is even easier to find a job in England, but the visa is not nearly as good (only good for the job. The wages are much higher in london, but the cost of living is so high that I actually had much less money when I was there. The people were very nice and I actually felt much more confortable in my work environment. France is very microsoft oriented. England seems to have a stronger open source base.
I'm trying to get a job in Japan, and it is the same problem, trying to find someone who will sponsor a visa. A friend of mine got a job in Japan with Sony, and he got sick of them after 2 years and quit. His company got hiim kicked him out of his housing, since Sony was the guarantor for his apartment too. It sucks.
So I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the hassle. I'm currently thinking that the best approach is to go to work for a US company with Japanese divisions, and transfer within the company.
Often, with companies like these, you will also not have a language problem because the spoken language at the company will be English (since a large fraction of the employees come from countries all over the world).
From my experience, if you have solid education background, this sort of thing is pretty easy to do for engineering positions.
I lived in Germany for quite a while (right now i'm in the US but i'm going back next year) and if i'm right, germany is DESPERATELY looking for IT-professionals and is currently issuing short-term-visas (it should actually be visae..)which are sort of like a "greencard". You should easily be able to find a job at Infenion (Siemens), SAP, or even AMD.
"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." -Wittgenstein
There's a lot of stuff at http://www.ams.or.at/itjobs/, including infos for foreigners, visa related issues etc. You can search a job database, or you can post your resume and companies might contact you.
What I've been told they are looking for people especially in Vienna. Which means, you can see a shit load of European culture because before the World War 1 Austria kinda was running the place ;-) I never liked Vienna, but if you are used to US cities, it's probably pretty nice.
Concerning language, German skills might help a little, but the various dialects are typically so brutal that native Germans get lost. However, the dialects are simplier and a lot easier to learn than the bloated original German. People in IT business should speak English reasonably well, if you can live with the accent.
In 1963 I set sail for London with a return trip ticket, a little money and a typewriter with a tourist visa. I had been doing Engineering work in this country no computers. Big companies didn't have them yet. I thought maybe I would pick grapes in France. But I knocked on the door of a Yankee firm right near my cheap digs in Russell Square. They hired me. (I had done a short thing in machine code when I was in College.) I was that company's first full time programmer. Back then businesses rented computer time. Programmes had to be compiled. And so I married an engineer and had four kids in four countries.(Same engineer)Yes they gave me a hassle about changing my Visa. But it got changed. There was a guy working there I had worked with here who gave me a good reference. References help.The guy I trained to replace me was the first in an engineering office in London to have an in-house computer. From what I hear there are still ways. One guy got the job there and then knew a body shop here who hired him and sent him the papers. If you can do a job no one else has done before you'll get the job. Then straighten out the paperwork. We're the only country that throws people in jail just for trying. I suggest if youre not in England that you speak the language well. All European coountries have had a lot of immigration in the past years and life at the bottom of the economic ladder is not that great. But what the heck you're only young once.
I ran across this problem last year. My fiance was British and I was an American student, about to graduate. The aim was to find a job in the UK so that I could move over and be with him. Easier said than done.
I was ready to go over to the UK and look for a job over there, as it's a lot easier doing things in person than searching on monster.co.uk. Unfortunately this is an impossibility, under British law. You must have a work permit BEFORE entering the UK if you plan on working there. You cannot look for and find a job if you're only here on a visitor's permit.
This goes hand in hand with the fact that, in my experience at least, it's really hard to find a job in the UK via the regular avenues if you do not already have a means of working there. I corresponded with several potential employers via email and was turned away each time because I was not already good to work there. It's something of a catch-22.
In the end, we decided the situation was rather hopeless. It didn't look like I was going to be able to find a job as it stood. So we eloped and I got a spousal visa and all was swell. A few weeks after we did this, I got a job with an American company who agreed to send me over to its UK office. Had my husband and I not gotten married beforehand, I still would've had to have messed with a work permit even in this situation, but with a company to sponsor you, half the battle's already done.
Be wary of companies who promise to send you abroad. I very nearly got stuck in the states due to the way business was going both here in Europe and there. If you do try something like this, remember to get everything in writing and keep on those HR people so they don't forget about you.
a decent healthcare system, low crime, less guns, a sound and robust social safety-net, political leaders with IQs above 110, thousands of years of arts and culture, incredible food, decriminalized ganja. Did I miss anything?
Sure you pay more in taxes. You know what? I could also buy natty light cheap, but I like real beer better. But that's me.
Yes, we learned well -- from the US. Good job! Talk free-market bullshit but keep those barriers as high as you can.
Where was the jingoism or nationalism in my post? Did you actually read it? My point was that taking citizenship in a country is about more than your own convenience, and should involve questions and issues such as; do I identify with the values of these people? How can I contribute to the well-being of the citizenry? I think you read a lot of crap into my post that wasn't there.
Your citizenship in the country in which you are born is an accident of birth. All others are a matter of conscious choice. And dolt to you too, while I'm at it.
Try Ireland, the tech shortage is vicious and the Government is easy with the work permits.
Thing is, to work in the US is really a very very hard thing, I am French , and I know peolple who went into this situation, as you said, getting work through an American company will help a lot, and as usual, if you have "expectional" abitilities, you'll get the position hopefully. Good luck!!
you can www.lolix.org and www.apec.asso.fr. you can also try a lot of job web sites. I think you can work in France (in high-tech companies) without speak french. france have a lot of advantages : good weather, sea and mountains, quite good salaries, good health system and a lot of holidays (7 weeks now !)
It's easy enough to find a job in Europe, especially if you in the technical field. The work permits aren't that hard to get, especially if you are contracting.. Just contact various BRITISH contract agencies, and apply for your own work permit. However, if you are contracting, a British agency can place you most anywhere in Europe, and if you aren't working in Britan, they won't really care about your work permit, and if you are on an american passport, nobody will really ask you anything if you want to work in Spain, Italy or France. I know many people who have been here for years, and have never had a work permit.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
There is a company that places IT foreign workers in Europe (mostly in Germany). Their main resource of qualified people is South America (therefore the site in Spanish) but is open for other candidates.
They take care of the administrative tasks related to the residence permit and even cover the costs for the job interview (transportation, etc).
Send them your resume to cv@empleuro.com and let them do the search for you.
Fluent local language or English required. Should not be any problem for anybody here :)
AYSA