Nobody could pressure me into doing something like mass piracy (...err.. copyright violations) or spamming or theft without threat of harm or violence.
Heck, I have a chance to not file some money I made as a "sole prop." in Canada last year. I could save $4,000 if I did that. My friends even suggest it wouldn't be noticed. I'm just not stupid enough to do that. I pay the 4K I should pay anyways and I don't run the risk of being caught, convicted and then seriously hampered (e.g. international travel). I guess I'm that sort of rare "honest" breed.
So if you're likely to comit a crime for personal gain at the suggestion of someone else you're probably not a moral person and likely to do it anyways. But the point really is you're responsible for your own actions. Unless the person threatens you (or others) with violence you have no reason to follow through other than you're corrupt.
It's odd, on the one hand we don't want big brother to control us, on the other hand we're so ready to give in (apparently) to their whims, or at least it seems like a nice excuse.
Reasons entrapment should be illegal
1. Threat of violence 2. Threat of another crime (e.g. libel or slander) as blackmail 3. ??? 4. Profit!
I ran BBSes when I was 11-12 (1993 era) and modems then were mostly AT compatible (e.g. standard AT commands). It was also the case in 1990 when I first started connecting to BBSes.
As for "stop bits" and all that jazz... you're a moran. Once you get it going you're set. Usually 8-N-1 was the default and worked with the modems I used (both internal and external). Those settings were only between you and the modem. The modem had it's own protocols which were also ITU standards...
Maybe in the early 80s when modems were still relatively new they were non-standard but that wasn't the case in the later 80s and early 90s.
You're talking to a kid here who build 386 boxes and knew what an IRQ was before I could solve trig problems in school:-). My BBS ran on a 25Mhz 386SX with a whopping 4MB of ram and three ISA 9600 modems (later upgraded to 14.4). We ran my BBS (I wrote one when I was 12) for a bit before switching to Renegade then proceeded to host Tattlenet (we were the north american gateway for Canada to Europe), TransCanada hosts (we were at the top of the hub chain) and a FidoNet hub. Used Desqview to multitask and some mailer (can't recall which) to handle the lists.
Computers were A LOT more standard back then then now.
You're confusing "it just works in Windows" (which often is not truly the case) with "it follows a standard".
There are standards for sound cards for instance. Creative set it with the Sound Blaster. Now we're all into MMIO so the AC'97 spec defines a chipset which has 5.1 capability and bi-directional ports. The cmipci chip is an implementation (a standard conforming one) of AC'97.
Similarly VESA 3 defines memory mapped overlays and other 2D enhancements which very few graphic card vendors conform to. At best they support VESA 2 with maybe linear frames.
Then you have IDE controllers, network devices, etc, etc...
How things are implemented underneath and how you interface are not the same thing. You can have two companies implement the same network device interface and still have two cards with different niche markets. The only reason they don't get a standard going is because they realize that they can always hire some newbie intern to write the windows driver they need.
Instead if they settled on a spec you could write one driver (hint: OSS folk would gladly do it for free) and you'd save yourself hiring that yuppy intern.
I never believed in Entrapment. It's one thing to say "steal this money or I'll kill you" but "come on, no one is looking!" is not significant pressure.
In the former case you are not in control and it's excusable. In the latter case though you're just a crook.
So if they managed to hire them with only an offer of clean exchange of money then so be it. Too fucking bad.
That's a retarded comment. If your 15 or 16 yr old can hold a part time job but can't handle a net connection you have failed as a parent.
Sometimes being a good parent means putting limits on what kids do at an earlier age. My parents let me play nintendo but they were very apt at telling me when "enough is enough" and I had to do other things (scouts, air cadets, piano, swimming, hanging out with friends).
From that I got a good sense of balance. I still play video games today but I know to call it quits and do other things. I travel the world, write OSS software, still play a bit of piano (not as often as I'd like) and work for a fairly well established company. So if an 17 yr old kid is *just* becoming mature enough to handle a net connection... you've long since failed your child.
More so the point of raising a child, the goal you work towards is one day they have to make these decisions for themselves. That is, at age 15 they should be able to say "child porn is wrong" or "racist material is wrong". Raising a kid doesn't mean you're there 24/7 to make all their decisions for them.
And for the record your kids *should* read racist propaganda. Ignorance is just as bad as blind obedience. How can you disapprove of something you've never experienced? It isn't like reading "kill all n*****" will make you racist. Having low moral standing will allow that to happen. (That and personally I find racist material funny because if you think about who writes it you'll realize they're just pathetic failures as people)
Your comment on "cpu flavours" is kinda moot. There are versions of Windows for non-x86 and I can certainly build SSE3 applications that won't run on your Athlon XP etc, etc.
The fact that Linux can (and largely does) work on non-x86 platforms is not a bad thing. I've yet to find a significant problem installing any random application... of course gentoo builds from source for me.
As for the hardware sensors... on non-intel motherboards lm-sensors *usually* works. You can thank non-standard hardware vendors for that one though. In this day and age there should be a trivial serial protocol for reading temps/fan speeds/etc that all motherboards adhere to uniformly. That isn't a Linux problem just your hardware sucks.
Imagine if in the 80s and 90s each vendor had their own take on UARTs. Yes, there were some variations but more often than not a RS-232 device "just worked". Because of that many devices were created that extended the computer era. E.g. modems, mice, printers, plotters, joysticks, primitive networking:-), etc, etc, etc.
If you had to buy a modem for your Compaq computer and then later it didn't work in your whitebox that would be pretty useless now wouldn't it?
So why is it now that we put up with vendors who clearly don't implement anything remotely approaching standard? Why can't they agree on some uniform base for things like sound cards, graphics and sensors?...
You don't need to censor kids who have proper (or at least mildly appropriate) values.
I was born into a house without a computer, first "peecee" was an XT when I was 8 or so. Didn't get on the net until years later in 1996, etc...
My parents didn't watch over shit I did on the net because by time I got access to the net (at age 14) I was already capable of figuring out that the "neo-nazi's of Oregan" aren't really a nice bunch to hang out with, etc, etc, etc.
So maybe the trick is that you shouldn't let your 6 yr old children run rampant on the net. Maybe let them have a computer but disconnect the network. Wait until they're 12 before you let them on unsurpervised. It's like letting your 8 yr old kid loose in a crowded market place. Just not smart.
What is myspace anyways?...:-/ -- not hip I guess. I'm old fashioned in my desire for FACE to FACE conversations and journalling IMPORTANT aspects of my life (not all of it)...
The actual people are just actors going by a script (anyone who thinks Reality TV isn't scripted needs to have their head examined). The fact that people find it "must see" is partially because they're sheep ready to be told what to think, see, listen, read and do.
People are different from one another in ways that matter to them. Sadly most people are very indifferent to a lot of things (values, rights, politics, taste, etc).
This is why McDonalds can sell billions of IDENTICAL burgers a year. And yes, I've been to McDonalds throughout the states and Canada, England and France and even Romania. They're all the same. Nobody cares for flare, they may make the remarks here and there but in the end they still go there.
Everyone laughs at lohan and the other pop titty stars... yet they sell millions of CDs per album...
etc, etc...
For once I want to see a cross dressing right wing nazi gay rights activist playing american football in England while sipping a diet-caffeine free Jolt cola.
That'd be different.
To bring this OT...
Blogs suck mostly because they're unoriginal. people "log" the bullshit in their life but can't write to save their lives and can't spin stories so that they're interesting. These are the sort of people that didn't get "short story composition" time in English classes during grade school.
Reading the articles specially as linked to by Slashdot is often a useless endeavour. They're always ad-laden and when not they're usually slashdotted instantly because they're too stupid to mirror the damn thing.
"Why don't we just string him up and save the cost of jail and treatment."
Why not, it's what we do with violent stray dogs and cats.
Seriously though, if some person is so bloody handicapped that he thinks violence is ok and nobody is going to look after them why not?
Do you want some random murderer wandering around your neighbourhood free because "punishing the retarded is inhumane"?... OT...
As for the whistle blower, you know that Diebold has *nudge nudge* and *wink wink* it's way to a trial against him. The fact that Diebold should just be f'ing disbanded for what they do is another issue I guess..
First off... WoW isn't that great. It's just a huge suck of lifespan. You spend hours of your life "uping" the stats of an imaginary character instead of going out and doing something or reading a book or learning a new trade or skill.
Second, when will you wake up to the fact that MSFT is evil and there are things worth more than the short term inability to play WoW. Think about it, if people actually grew balls (or conviction of character) and told Bill off you'd see games popping up for Linux and BSD like there was no tommorow (cause honestly for the game producer there would be none).
Instead people like you will sit there crying that Bill is ripping you off all while you buy more and more Windows and related hardware to play the games that should be coming out for other platforms as well.
Don't cry to me (or people like me) when you have to shell out 400$ to upgrade your box to play the "next greatest first person shooter" or whatever.
That and frankly there are better uses for a computer. Yeah I play games but my desktops/laptops are for work and study not playing silly little video games which are for children anyways.
I get a lot of professional work done in Gentoo and I've also done it in Fedora..
Gentoo doesn't take a lot of attention to get up and running. Mostly 20 mins or so at most then an 8 hour UNSUPERVISED build to get a work station... then you tarball the filesystem and use that to install on new boxes saving the 8 hour build.
Difference is SUSE is not a "cut down" copy of Fedora (or vice versa) they're just built by different teams with different opinions on the way a Distro should be made.
In MSFT lala land the six versions all have something or other removed, are probably "slighty" incompatible with each other (e.g. your remote desktop from basic might not work with enterprise or whatever). I wouldn't put that past them...
And for the record how many distros are there for Linux which compete for the exact same type of user?
Fedora == Home user with their first "peecee"
SLES and RHEL == Enterprise servers and work servers (e.g. flexlm boxes)
Gentoo == Hobbiest + for people with a clue.
Debian == OSS Patriot
Ubuntu and Knoppix == Mobile Linux Missionary tool.
The 100s of (mostly unmaintained) other distros are for vary niche markets of users. I wouldn't recommend that the average desktop user install Damn Small Linux to say a few MB of disk space for instance.
I singled out Suse and Redhat because they're commercial. If some guys PERSONAL distro is a monopoly that is in no way illegal.
I never said they should debundle I said distros that align should. Perhaps I phrased that wrong but I was trying to show my anger isn't unidirectional. It was trying to suggest a possible hypothetical course of action. I specifically mentioned the two distros because they're commercial not because they're aligned.
First off, it is I.T. it's an acronym not a fucking word.
Second it's a meaningless acronym. Information Technology... [yes, I've said this before...]. Information == content, Technology == subjective. Books are technology. So are cave paintings.
So an I.T. specialist could be anything from an archeologist, librarian to a systems admin with 10,000 IBM servers under their thumb.
My larger point here is just the vast sums of meaningless techno babble that swings around in the press. "IT hiring is up"... what the fuck does that mean? In the states? In Canada? globally? What are these new employees doing? Data entry?...
For the love of god stop over simplifying everything. Yes we use words like "doctor" or "mechanic" but we still acknowledge they have specialties. Why isn't it the same when we're talking about "business". Is it just because it's simpler to hide the truth and sounds more important?
Why should MS be forced to (potentially) help their competition? It's their choice how they write their software. If you're not going to pay for it, who the hell are you to tell them what to do?
Um? You're saying if I buy Word I can't look at the files it produces?
That's like Ford saying "you can't look under the hood". OH wait, they tried that and lost. Why is this any different?
It may help their competition? Are you kiddin me? Msft is nothing if not a total rip off. Name me one original idea from MSFT that is halfway successful today. Maybe Xbox Live but even that is a loss at this point so as a business it's a failure.
Why is it ok for them to ripoff ideas but then when we demand a bit of fair play that's "nonsense hippie share the world helping competition".
You ever think opening it up could help sell word? Look at the IBM PC. Anyone could write software for it and all of a sudden it was popular... imagine that. While you can write software with free compilers for MSFT a lot of its services are still closed up.
In what way does Fedora stop you from installing KDE? There are likely RPMs for it!!!
How does MSFT prevent the same? Oh let's see, non-documented file formats, network protocols and behaviours. Where is the RFC from microsoft on how their file network works?
There is a difference between "prefer" and "align". Align means you only support something and you work towards that goal. Prefer just means you'd use that by default.
Fedora defaults to Gnome but underneath it's just an X11 server. You can put icewm, wm, kde or whatever else you want. The tools will still run (most of which are CLI to start with anyways).
In fact quite a few fedora boxes I've setup don't even have monitors or keyboards and just use webmin to setup the services. So I don't even use the Fedora "gui tools" that it comes with. How's that for competition?
But that aside... which PC producer only bundles fedora? Suppose Fedora was a total lockin. Which is bad. It's not as bad as MSFT which is in every PC and a lockin.
Last I checked you had a choice in most linux distros as to what you can use....
Last I checked in Gentoo for instance I don't have to use gnome or kde... or mysql or postgres... etc.
In certain cases there are anti-competitive issues like Redhat modifying the C++ libs so things like Synopsis won't run outside of Fedora. But for the most part you're free to install anything you like. Distros like Fedora support NFS, LDAP, etc.... you can make Fedora talk to Ubuntu fairly trivially, etc.
I don't see how I'm flip flopping. I never said Linux distros are anti-competitive. I said any distro that aligns itself with technology *should* de-bundle. I never said they shouldn't bundle software.
While Fedora comes with Gnome you're free to install icewm or KDE and it'll work just fine. In fact you can choose not to install a WM at all.
To put this in context, imagine Fedora had it's own window manager that wasn't X11 compliant and you could only run applications that use it with the OS. That'd be MSFT Windows. However, that's not the case as Fedora comes "out of the box default" with a X11 server and open source window manager.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah and I don't buy it. Did the SS say "spam or we kill your dog"?
...
Or did they say "here's a bag of cash, go spam for us"?
As for the Canadian definitions as a Canadian myself I find most laws here laughable. (the UK is worse though...).
Basically if you weren't "forced" to do it by something more serious than "given a sack of money" then you should be liable for your actions.
Tom
Nobody could pressure me into doing something like mass piracy (...err.. copyright violations) or spamming or theft without threat of harm or violence.
Heck, I have a chance to not file some money I made as a "sole prop." in Canada last year. I could save $4,000 if I did that. My friends even suggest it wouldn't be noticed. I'm just not stupid enough to do that. I pay the 4K I should pay anyways and I don't run the risk of being caught, convicted and then seriously hampered (e.g. international travel). I guess I'm that sort of rare "honest" breed.
So if you're likely to comit a crime for personal gain at the suggestion of someone else you're probably not a moral person and likely to do it anyways. But the point really is you're responsible for your own actions. Unless the person threatens you (or others) with violence you have no reason to follow through other than you're corrupt.
It's odd, on the one hand we don't want big brother to control us, on the other hand we're so ready to give in (apparently) to their whims, or at least it seems like a nice excuse.
Reasons entrapment should be illegal
1. Threat of violence
2. Threat of another crime (e.g. libel or slander) as blackmail
3. ???
4. Profit!
Tom
I ran BBSes when I was 11-12 (1993 era) and modems then were mostly AT compatible (e.g. standard AT commands). It was also the case in 1990 when I first started connecting to BBSes.
:-). My BBS ran on a 25Mhz 386SX with a whopping 4MB of ram and three ISA 9600 modems (later upgraded to 14.4). We ran my BBS (I wrote one when I was 12) for a bit before switching to Renegade then proceeded to host Tattlenet (we were the north american gateway for Canada to Europe), TransCanada hosts (we were at the top of the hub chain) and a FidoNet hub. Used Desqview to multitask and some mailer (can't recall which) to handle the lists.
As for "stop bits" and all that jazz... you're a moran. Once you get it going you're set. Usually 8-N-1 was the default and worked with the modems I used (both internal and external). Those settings were only between you and the modem. The modem had it's own protocols which were also ITU standards...
Maybe in the early 80s when modems were still relatively new they were non-standard but that wasn't the case in the later 80s and early 90s.
You're talking to a kid here who build 386 boxes and knew what an IRQ was before I could solve trig problems in school
Computers were A LOT more standard back then then now.
You're confusing "it just works in Windows" (which often is not truly the case) with "it follows a standard".
There are standards for sound cards for instance. Creative set it with the Sound Blaster. Now we're all into MMIO so the AC'97 spec defines a chipset which has 5.1 capability and bi-directional ports. The cmipci chip is an implementation (a standard conforming one) of AC'97.
Similarly VESA 3 defines memory mapped overlays and other 2D enhancements which very few graphic card vendors conform to. At best they support VESA 2 with maybe linear frames.
Then you have IDE controllers, network devices, etc, etc...
How things are implemented underneath and how you interface are not the same thing. You can have two companies implement the same network device interface and still have two cards with different niche markets. The only reason they don't get a standard going is because they realize that they can always hire some newbie intern to write the windows driver they need.
Instead if they settled on a spec you could write one driver (hint: OSS folk would gladly do it for free) and you'd save yourself hiring that yuppy intern.
Tom
I never believed in Entrapment. It's one thing to say "steal this money or I'll kill you" but "come on, no one is looking!" is not significant pressure.
In the former case you are not in control and it's excusable. In the latter case though you're just a crook.
So if they managed to hire them with only an offer of clean exchange of money then so be it. Too fucking bad.
Tom
That's a retarded comment. If your 15 or 16 yr old can hold a part time job but can't handle a net connection you have failed as a parent.
... you've long since failed your child.
Sometimes being a good parent means putting limits on what kids do at an earlier age. My parents let me play nintendo but they were very apt at telling me when "enough is enough" and I had to do other things (scouts, air cadets, piano, swimming, hanging out with friends).
From that I got a good sense of balance. I still play video games today but I know to call it quits and do other things. I travel the world, write OSS software, still play a bit of piano (not as often as I'd like) and work for a fairly well established company. So if an 17 yr old kid is *just* becoming mature enough to handle a net connection
More so the point of raising a child, the goal you work towards is one day they have to make these decisions for themselves. That is, at age 15 they should be able to say "child porn is wrong" or "racist material is wrong". Raising a kid doesn't mean you're there 24/7 to make all their decisions for them.
And for the record your kids *should* read racist propaganda. Ignorance is just as bad as blind obedience. How can you disapprove of something you've never experienced? It isn't like reading "kill all n*****" will make you racist. Having low moral standing will allow that to happen. (That and personally I find racist material funny because if you think about who writes it you'll realize they're just pathetic failures as people)
Tom
Your comment on "cpu flavours" is kinda moot. There are versions of Windows for non-x86 and I can certainly build SSE3 applications that won't run on your Athlon XP etc, etc.
:-), etc, etc, etc.
...
The fact that Linux can (and largely does) work on non-x86 platforms is not a bad thing. I've yet to find a significant problem installing any random application... of course gentoo builds from source for me.
As for the hardware sensors... on non-intel motherboards lm-sensors *usually* works. You can thank non-standard hardware vendors for that one though. In this day and age there should be a trivial serial protocol for reading temps/fan speeds/etc that all motherboards adhere to uniformly. That isn't a Linux problem just your hardware sucks.
Imagine if in the 80s and 90s each vendor had their own take on UARTs. Yes, there were some variations but more often than not a RS-232 device "just worked". Because of that many devices were created that extended the computer era. E.g. modems, mice, printers, plotters, joysticks, primitive networking
If you had to buy a modem for your Compaq computer and then later it didn't work in your whitebox that would be pretty useless now wouldn't it?
So why is it now that we put up with vendors who clearly don't implement anything remotely approaching standard? Why can't they agree on some uniform base for things like sound cards, graphics and sensors?
Tom
You don't need to censor kids who have proper (or at least mildly appropriate) values.
I was born into a house without a computer, first "peecee" was an XT when I was 8 or so. Didn't get on the net until years later in 1996, etc...
My parents didn't watch over shit I did on the net because by time I got access to the net (at age 14) I was already capable of figuring out that the "neo-nazi's of Oregan" aren't really a nice bunch to hang out with, etc, etc, etc.
So maybe the trick is that you shouldn't let your 6 yr old children run rampant on the net. Maybe let them have a computer but disconnect the network. Wait until they're 12 before you let them on unsurpervised. It's like letting your 8 yr old kid loose in a crowded market place. Just not smart.
Tom
What is myspace anyways? ... :-/ -- not hip I guess. I'm old fashioned in my desire for FACE to FACE conversations and journalling IMPORTANT aspects of my life (not all of it)...
Tom
It's "on tv" is what is important about it.
... yet they sell millions of CDs per album...
...
The actual people are just actors going by a script (anyone who thinks Reality TV isn't scripted needs to have their head examined). The fact that people find it "must see" is partially because they're sheep ready to be told what to think, see, listen, read and do.
People are different from one another in ways that matter to them. Sadly most people are very indifferent to a lot of things (values, rights, politics, taste, etc).
This is why McDonalds can sell billions of IDENTICAL burgers a year. And yes, I've been to McDonalds throughout the states and Canada, England and France and even Romania. They're all the same. Nobody cares for flare, they may make the remarks here and there but in the end they still go there.
Everyone laughs at lohan and the other pop titty stars
etc, etc...
For once I want to see a cross dressing right wing nazi gay rights activist playing american football in England while sipping a diet-caffeine free Jolt cola.
That'd be different.
To bring this OT
Blogs suck mostly because they're unoriginal. people "log" the bullshit in their life but can't write to save their lives and can't spin stories so that they're interesting. These are the sort of people that didn't get "short story composition" time in English classes during grade school.
Tom
Reading the articles specially as linked to by Slashdot is often a useless endeavour. They're always ad-laden and when not they're usually slashdotted instantly because they're too stupid to mirror the damn thing.
I still hate Diebold.
Tom
Actually in quite a few states violating an NDA or agreement is not illegal if you're doing it to prevent a crime.
/me hates Diebold
Fixing an election is a crime.
Ergo, shut your gob!
Tom
Or maybe he wanted the news spread as far and wide as possible.
The government does have a habit of covering things up. Specially for a price.
Tom
"Why don't we just string him up and save the cost of jail and treatment."
... OT ...
Why not, it's what we do with violent stray dogs and cats.
Seriously though, if some person is so bloody handicapped that he thinks violence is ok and nobody is going to look after them why not?
Do you want some random murderer wandering around your neighbourhood free because "punishing the retarded is inhumane"?
As for the whistle blower, you know that Diebold has *nudge nudge* and *wink wink* it's way to a trial against him. The fact that Diebold should just be f'ing disbanded for what they do is another issue I guess..
Tom
...
Always a whiner are we?
First off... WoW isn't that great. It's just a huge suck of lifespan. You spend hours of your life "uping" the stats of an imaginary character instead of going out and doing something or reading a book or learning a new trade or skill.
Second, when will you wake up to the fact that MSFT is evil and there are things worth more than the short term inability to play WoW. Think about it, if people actually grew balls (or conviction of character) and told Bill off you'd see games popping up for Linux and BSD like there was no tommorow (cause honestly for the game producer there would be none).
Instead people like you will sit there crying that Bill is ripping you off all while you buy more and more Windows and related hardware to play the games that should be coming out for other platforms as well.
Don't cry to me (or people like me) when you have to shell out 400$ to upgrade your box to play the "next greatest first person shooter" or whatever.
That and frankly there are better uses for a computer. Yeah I play games but my desktops/laptops are for work and study not playing silly little video games which are for children anyways.
Tom
Bingo.
*golf clap*
Now will people stop investong in "protection rackets"???
Tom
get work done? ... that's a loaded statement.
I get a lot of professional work done in Gentoo and I've also done it in Fedora..
Gentoo doesn't take a lot of attention to get up and running. Mostly 20 mins or so at most then an 8 hour UNSUPERVISED build to get a work station... then you tarball the filesystem and use that to install on new boxes saving the 8 hour build.
Tom
.... buy a console.
desktops are for work.
Tom
Difference is SUSE is not a "cut down" copy of Fedora (or vice versa) they're just built by different teams with different opinions on the way a Distro should be made.
In MSFT lala land the six versions all have something or other removed, are probably "slighty" incompatible with each other (e.g. your remote desktop from basic might not work with enterprise or whatever). I wouldn't put that past them...
And for the record how many distros are there for Linux which compete for the exact same type of user?
Fedora == Home user with their first "peecee"
SLES and RHEL == Enterprise servers and work servers (e.g. flexlm boxes)
Gentoo == Hobbiest + for people with a clue.
Debian == OSS Patriot
Ubuntu and Knoppix == Mobile Linux Missionary tool.
The 100s of (mostly unmaintained) other distros are for vary niche markets of users. I wouldn't recommend that the average desktop user install Damn Small Linux to say a few MB of disk space for instance.
Tom
Is there really a market for that many IT people? if all it means is install servers and put programs on it?
My take is they lump anything to do with a computer into IT. E.g. software developers? oh they're IT. Graphic Artist? IT! Your mother? IT!
It is just a meaningless buzzword at this point.
Tom
I singled out Suse and Redhat because they're commercial. If some guys PERSONAL distro is a monopoly that is in no way illegal.
I never said they should debundle I said distros that align should. Perhaps I phrased that wrong but I was trying to show my anger isn't unidirectional. It was trying to suggest a possible hypothetical course of action. I specifically mentioned the two distros because they're commercial not because they're aligned.
Tom
First off, it is I.T. it's an acronym not a fucking word.
... [yes, I've said this before...]. Information == content, Technology == subjective. Books are technology. So are cave paintings.
... what the fuck does that mean? In the states? In Canada? globally? What are these new employees doing? Data entry? ...
Second it's a meaningless acronym. Information Technology
So an I.T. specialist could be anything from an archeologist, librarian to a systems admin with 10,000 IBM servers under their thumb.
My larger point here is just the vast sums of meaningless techno babble that swings around in the press. "IT hiring is up"
For the love of god stop over simplifying everything. Yes we use words like "doctor" or "mechanic" but we still acknowledge they have specialties. Why isn't it the same when we're talking about "business". Is it just because it's simpler to hide the truth and sounds more important?
Tom
Why should MS be forced to (potentially) help their competition? It's their choice how they write their software. If you're not going to pay for it, who the hell are you to tell them what to do?
Um? You're saying if I buy Word I can't look at the files it produces?
That's like Ford saying "you can't look under the hood". OH wait, they tried that and lost. Why is this any different?
It may help their competition? Are you kiddin me? Msft is nothing if not a total rip off. Name me one original idea from MSFT that is halfway successful today. Maybe Xbox Live but even that is a loss at this point so as a business it's a failure.
Why is it ok for them to ripoff ideas but then when we demand a bit of fair play that's "nonsense hippie share the world helping competition".
You ever think opening it up could help sell word? Look at the IBM PC. Anyone could write software for it and all of a sudden it was popular... imagine that. While you can write software with free compilers for MSFT a lot of its services are still closed up.
Tom
In what way does Fedora stop you from installing KDE? There are likely RPMs for it!!!
... which PC producer only bundles fedora? Suppose Fedora was a total lockin. Which is bad. It's not as bad as MSFT which is in every PC and a lockin.
How does MSFT prevent the same? Oh let's see, non-documented file formats, network protocols and behaviours. Where is the RFC from microsoft on how their file network works?
There is a difference between "prefer" and "align". Align means you only support something and you work towards that goal. Prefer just means you'd use that by default.
Fedora defaults to Gnome but underneath it's just an X11 server. You can put icewm, wm, kde or whatever else you want. The tools will still run (most of which are CLI to start with anyways).
In fact quite a few fedora boxes I've setup don't even have monitors or keyboards and just use webmin to setup the services. So I don't even use the Fedora "gui tools" that it comes with. How's that for competition?
But that aside
Tom
Why is having a choice such a scary proposition. You can still use your windows bundle. Why can't I choose to just have the kernel?
Stray from the centre a bit ok?
tom
Last I checked you had a choice in most linux distros as to what you can use....
... or mysql or postgres ... etc.
:-)
Last I checked in Gentoo for instance I don't have to use gnome or kde
In certain cases there are anti-competitive issues like Redhat modifying the C++ libs so things like Synopsis won't run outside of Fedora. But for the most part you're free to install anything you like. Distros like Fedora support NFS, LDAP, etc.... you can make Fedora talk to Ubuntu fairly trivially, etc.
I don't see how I'm flip flopping. I never said Linux distros are anti-competitive. I said any distro that aligns itself with technology *should* de-bundle. I never said they shouldn't bundle software.
While Fedora comes with Gnome you're free to install icewm or KDE and it'll work just fine. In fact you can choose not to install a WM at all.
To put this in context, imagine Fedora had it's own window manager that wasn't X11 compliant and you could only run applications that use it with the OS. That'd be MSFT Windows. However, that's not the case as Fedora comes "out of the box default" with a X11 server and open source window manager.
Try installing windows without a WM.
Tom