I've never even heard of Wicket or Trails, so I doubt those are commonly used in Java applications. And if they are, that just makes the point I addressed elsewhere -- Java has too damn many third party frameworks -- requiring both rampup time and the inevitable transition time when half of them are abandoned in a few years.
Yeah, but it's really no different anywhere else: "Motif is for Unix GUIs!" (later) "Eww - Motif. Let use Qt!" "Linux Threads!" (next week) "POSIX Threads!" "Java Enterprise Beans is the right way to do it!" (2 years pass) "Enterprise Beans is the wrong way to do it! Hibernate! JDO!" etc etc
Your PHBs likely suck, so I'm not going to defend them too strenuously -- but it sounds like they have the right idea. For a business application, it's a very rare case when you "need another language that had the tools to solve the problem, such as C or perl" -- and the boss is likely wisely thinking of the future, after you quit, and he has to support the work that you've done.
No, actually, we're talking about hiring managers here. And from a managerial standpoint, it's a lot easier to find people who know standard frameworks (ie, those from Microsoft or Sun) than people who know all or even some of the myriad of non-standardized Java frameworks.
"EVERYONE tells them to use Windows", because the knowledgeable *nix guys are all making $90K+ in big business somewhere. Don't take it personally just because you are the exception to that rule. You can blab on about how great SMB Linux is all you want, but until you get your colleagues to join you in your PC tech moonlighting, it's not going to happen.
> If people like you would consider using Linux for SMB installs
People like me? I stay the hell away from SMB anything, and I'm perfectly capable of using Linux.
The only job you'll land for "What you can learn" is the first one. After that, you'll be primarily judged on "What you know". It is dangerous to be overly specialized (especially if that skill is in decline), but it just as dangerous to be overly generalized. Most companies hire because they've got a job to do, not just because they like to have smart people around. There's a reason all those job ads request 3-5 years of XXX experience and not "compiler understanding".
Also, employers tend to advertise languages (C#, Java, C++), but what they really are looking for is in-depth knowledge of the APIs (ASP.NET, Swing, Unix Threads, MFC). And one just doesn't get that knowledge without a lot of experience.
In the future, most software will be written in a VHLL, with a few performance critical sections ported to something like C++ or C#.
That was Microsoft's plan back in the 90s -- VB & C++ COM objects for performance. However, the market told them they wanted one language for everything, and thus you get C# which is a kind of mix between an applications language and a systems language.
Python is supposedly fast and cheap (and fun) to develop with -- I'm sure it will be a popular commercial language at some point in the future -- especially for Unix shops with C/C++ codebases as you mentioned. However, being promoted as "cheaper than Java" probably won't attract the best coding talent.
You know what? It really doesn't matter. If you really are a $100K programmer who spends his weekends setting up Windows ME machines at small businesses, you're the only one. It doesn't change the support equasion for that market one iota.
Or, if you were as good at Unix as you think you are, you'd be making $90K as a F500 sysadmin rather than pulling cable at Ma'n'Pa's Shoppe.
The point is that while Linux would be a good fit for the SMB market, the support talent pool just isn't there. Komputor Guyz (eg, you) that can support SMB Windows installs are a dime-a-dozen, and even Pa understands that support costs a lot more than software.
Care to explain how a "bondage and discipline" language like C# is easier to learn and more tolerant of bad programming practices, than TMTOWTDI open source languages like PHP and Perl? Oh, that's right, you were just spreading FUD.
For years, one could blame Microsoft for cheap amateur hack coding. No more -- Open Source "LAMP" now totally owns that market.
Hint: Trying to judge the software development market based on your Debian installation is futile.
Perl -- Had a shot at commercial app dev relevance in the 90s, but the world passed it by, and is used rarely for new projects. Largely relegated to Unix system scripts, which is more of what it was designed for.
Python -- Just because some college student coded a filesharing app with it doesn't make it a popular language. Nothing against the language, just that you probably won't find a job using it.
IIS -- it's actually a very popular web application server, but very few of those installations would show up in Netcraft surveys because they aren't Internet-accessible. Judging by the job market it's much more likely you will be "working" (that is, getting paid) on IIS or even Tomcat rather than Apache httpd.
Aside from any of the language issues, ASP.NET provides a really productive environment for web app development. At least for projects of a certain size, ASP.NET is much cheaper/faster to develop for than J2EE, and the resulting code is generally pretty clean and easy to maintain. Java has all this heavy infrastructure for large applications (Struts, Spring, Enterprise Beans), but result is that it's uncompetitive for the small-to-midsized ones.
it was put in while a proposal for standardization, and it wasn't included (thank god, how annoying), they just never removed the functionality.
It was always questioned if Nutscrape was about the standardization process, or if they were just mailing in specs so that they could claim that everything they did was "pending W3C certification" (when most of it really wasn't).
Yes, Apple is on the vanguard of removing a $0.10 port so that their legacy customers are forced to buy a $50 adapter.
"Try finding a desktop from dell without them." Why would I want to? Seriously. Give me one good reason.
With all the agressive dumping of legacy support, and the numerous platform changes, Apple basically supports itself on the hardcore Mac zealot market which totals about 2% of the whole. Which is fine for them, but it's not at all comparable to the engineering decisions that Microsoft needs to make in order to support what everyone else wants.
The only Python app I have on my system is BitTorrent, and it looks like something left over from a 1994 X/Motif system. By far the worst looking GUI toolkit I have seen in some time.
3DMark is a DirectX benchmark, I believe. It's quite possible that Wine's implementation is incomplete, where certain operations on Windows become no-ops on Wine.
In this case, you have a "Quack3" time benchmark, where sure it runs faster, but at the expense of image quality.
Even in the OpenGL tests, you have some pretty wild differences that probably related to the driver being used rather than Wine v Windows.
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I've never even heard of Wicket or Trails, so I doubt those are commonly used in Java applications. And if they are, that just makes the point I addressed elsewhere -- Java has too damn many third party frameworks -- requiring both rampup time and the inevitable transition time when half of them are abandoned in a few years.
Yeah, but it's really no different anywhere else:
"Motif is for Unix GUIs!" (later) "Eww - Motif. Let use Qt!"
"Linux Threads!" (next week) "POSIX Threads!"
"Java Enterprise Beans is the right way to do it!" (2 years pass) "Enterprise Beans is the wrong way to do it! Hibernate! JDO!"
etc etc
Your PHBs likely suck, so I'm not going to defend them too strenuously -- but it sounds like they have the right idea. For a business application, it's a very rare case when you "need another language that had the tools to solve the problem, such as C or perl" -- and the boss is likely wisely thinking of the future, after you quit, and he has to support the work that you've done.
Why would I recommend Linux to customers where it's a bad choice?
Wrong. It's a shitty programmer who finds himself trapped in a shitty job market. Which is exactly what LAMP is, regardless of the merit of the tools.
Possibly. My point is that your philosophy and what you put on your resume are two very different things.
> we're talking about developers here.
No, actually, we're talking about hiring managers here. And from a managerial standpoint, it's a lot easier to find people who know standard frameworks (ie, those from Microsoft or Sun) than people who know all or even some of the myriad of non-standardized Java frameworks.
While that might have been true a few years ago (I remember reading about "Exchange.NET" :P), Microsoft pretty much has their story straight nowdays.
"EVERYONE tells them to use Windows", because the knowledgeable *nix guys are all making $90K+ in big business somewhere. Don't take it personally just because you are the exception to that rule. You can blab on about how great SMB Linux is all you want, but until you get your colleagues to join you in your PC tech moonlighting, it's not going to happen.
> If people like you would consider using Linux for SMB installs
People like me? I stay the hell away from SMB anything, and I'm perfectly capable of using Linux.
The only job you'll land for "What you can learn" is the first one. After that, you'll be primarily judged on "What you know". It is dangerous to be overly specialized (especially if that skill is in decline), but it just as dangerous to be overly generalized. Most companies hire because they've got a job to do, not just because they like to have smart people around. There's a reason all those job ads request 3-5 years of XXX experience and not "compiler understanding".
Also, employers tend to advertise languages (C#, Java, C++), but what they really are looking for is in-depth knowledge of the APIs (ASP.NET, Swing, Unix Threads, MFC). And one just doesn't get that knowledge without a lot of experience.
In the future, most software will be written in a VHLL, with a few performance critical sections ported to something like C++ or C#.
That was Microsoft's plan back in the 90s -- VB & C++ COM objects for performance. However, the market told them they wanted one language for everything, and thus you get C# which is a kind of mix between an applications language and a systems language.
Python is supposedly fast and cheap (and fun) to develop with -- I'm sure it will be a popular commercial language at some point in the future -- especially for Unix shops with C/C++ codebases as you mentioned. However, being promoted as "cheaper than Java" probably won't attract the best coding talent.
You know what? It really doesn't matter. If you really are a $100K programmer who spends his weekends setting up Windows ME machines at small businesses, you're the only one. It doesn't change the support equasion for that market one iota.
Meybee you should try to kvetch your esceptions.
> But hey, Windows is great for my wallet.
Or, if you were as good at Unix as you think you are, you'd be making $90K as a F500 sysadmin rather than pulling cable at Ma'n'Pa's Shoppe.
The point is that while Linux would be a good fit for the SMB market, the support talent pool just isn't there. Komputor Guyz (eg, you) that can support SMB Windows installs are a dime-a-dozen, and even Pa understands that support costs a lot more than software.
Care to explain how a "bondage and discipline" language like C# is easier to learn and more tolerant of bad programming practices, than TMTOWTDI open source languages like PHP and Perl? Oh, that's right, you were just spreading FUD.
For years, one could blame Microsoft for cheap amateur hack coding. No more -- Open Source "LAMP" now totally owns that market.
Hint: Trying to judge the software development market based on your Debian installation is futile.
Perl -- Had a shot at commercial app dev relevance in the 90s, but the world passed it by, and is used rarely for new projects. Largely relegated to Unix system scripts, which is more of what it was designed for.
Python -- Just because some college student coded a filesharing app with it doesn't make it a popular language. Nothing against the language, just that you probably won't find a job using it.
IIS -- it's actually a very popular web application server, but very few of those installations would show up in Netcraft surveys because they aren't Internet-accessible. Judging by the job market it's much more likely you will be "working" (that is, getting paid) on IIS or even Tomcat rather than Apache httpd.
Aside from any of the language issues, ASP.NET provides a really productive environment for web app development. At least for projects of a certain size, ASP.NET is much cheaper/faster to develop for than J2EE, and the resulting code is generally pretty clean and easy to maintain. Java has all this heavy infrastructure for large applications (Struts, Spring, Enterprise Beans), but result is that it's uncompetitive for the small-to-midsized ones.
CS3 will be 64-bit, at least on Windows. (By next year, most shipping PCs will be running Vista in 64-bit native mode.)
However, since Apple hasn't announced any real 100% 64-bit OS plans, it's unclear whether the Mac versions will be 64-bit or not.
According to dxdiag, both heads support hardware Direct3D on my ATI 9700Pro.
Not if Firefox's share is going down. When it's rising, we need daily reports on the individual stats of some obscure web developer site.
it was put in while a proposal for standardization, and it wasn't included (thank god, how annoying), they just never removed the functionality.
It was always questioned if Nutscrape was about the standardization process, or if they were just mailing in specs so that they could claim that everything they did was "pending W3C certification" (when most of it really wasn't).
Yes, Apple is on the vanguard of removing a $0.10 port so that their legacy customers are forced to buy a $50 adapter.
"Try finding a desktop from dell without them." Why would I want to? Seriously. Give me one good reason.
With all the agressive dumping of legacy support, and the numerous platform changes, Apple basically supports itself on the hardcore Mac zealot market which totals about 2% of the whole. Which is fine for them, but it's not at all comparable to the engineering decisions that Microsoft needs to make in order to support what everyone else wants.
The only Python app I have on my system is BitTorrent, and it looks like something left over from a 1994 X/Motif system. By far the worst looking GUI toolkit I have seen in some time.
Wow. Long response to a dead story, and at best you're just wrong, at worst it's just unsubstantiated FUD.
3DMark is a DirectX benchmark, I believe. It's quite possible that Wine's implementation is incomplete, where certain operations on Windows become no-ops on Wine.
In this case, you have a "Quack3" time benchmark, where sure it runs faster, but at the expense of image quality.
Even in the OpenGL tests, you have some pretty wild differences that probably related to the driver being used rather than Wine v Windows.